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Could somebody take a look at Draft:Souvik Mandal. It's a bit of a mess. I suspect there may be the germ of a good article in there, but it's quite badly written. Hopefully, somebody more familiar with the culture will be able to make more sense out of it than I can. Thanks. -- RoySmith (talk) 17:52, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
DBigXray. Clearly the draft uploader is enthusiastic, and we should do our very best to guide the editor and the draft through the AfC process. But if they've accidentally outed themselves, then we should act in their benefit. I guess I'm proposing that until we hear otherwise from the draft uploader, RoySmith or another admin move the draft to a new title, without a history merge, to protect the identify of the editor. I'll drop a note at AN. Cesdeva (talk) 21:36, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
Hello. With the efforts of User:Gazoth, now we have more than 114 thousand images uploaded from Press Information Bureau on Wikimedia Commons under the license GODL-India. Unfortunately, over thirty thousand of them are still not categorized. I'll be very grateful, if some users can lend a hand in helping me categorizing these images at Category:Images from Press Information Bureau needing categories. My apologies if this isn't the right place to ask for this. Thanks. — Sarvatra ( talk, contribs) 13:25, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
I recently came across the source Bimal Kanti Paul (2012), "Indian Famines: 1707-1943", in William A. Dando (ed) (ed.),
Food and Famine in the 21st Century, ABC-CLIO, pp. 39–57,
ISBN
978-1-59884-730-7 {{
citation}}
: |editor=
has generic name (
help). This source was being cited in the article
Great Famine of 1876–1878 which I had written in 2008. (See
this talk page discussion). When I examined the source, I noticed that some paragraphs seemed familiar. They had my style of writing. Indeed after some rummaging, I found text that had been lifted (i.e. copied verbatim) from the same Wikipedia article to which it was now being cited. Who is the author of the source? He is
Bimal Kanti Paul, a professor at Kansas State University. I offer below two example. (There might be others as well. I had written several Indian famine articles around that time.)
Example 1, from the source: "After the Great Famine, a large number of agricultural laborers and handloom weavers in South India immigrated ( sic) to British tropical colonies to work as indentured laborers on plantations. The excessive deaths experienced in this famine also neutralized natural population growth in the Bombay and Madras presidencies between the first and second censuses of British India carried out in 1871 and 1881, respectively. The Great Famine was to have a lasting political impact on events in India. Among the British administrators in India who were unsettled by the official reactions to this famine and, in particular, by the stifling of the official debate about the best form of famine relief, were William Wedderbum and A. O. Hume. Less than a decade later, they would found the Indian National Congress and, in turn, influence a generation of nationalists such as Dadabhai Naoroji and Romesh Chunder Dutt, for whom the Great Famine would become a cornerstone to [sic] the economic critique of the British Raj." (Bimal Kanti Paul (2012), Indian Famines: 1707-1943, p.50, volume 2 (Classical Famines))
Contrast with my version at the end of my first edits of 23rd and 24th May 2008 (see here, and scroll to the top to view the date of edit):
After the famine, a large number of agricultural laborers and handloom weavers in South India emigrated to British tropical colonies to work as indentured laborers in plantations. [1] The excessive mortality in the famine also neutralized the natural population growth in the Bombay and Madras presidencies during the decade between the first and second censuses of British India in 1871 and 1881 respectively. [2] The Great Famine was to have a lasting political impact on events in India; among the British administrators in India who were unsettled by the official reactions to the famine and, in particular by the stifling of the official debate about the best form of famine relief, were William Wedderburn and A. O. Hume. [3] Less than a decade later, they would found the Indian National Congress and, in turn, influence a generation of nationalists such as Dadabhai Naoroji and Romesh Chunder Dutt for whom the Great Famine would become a cornerstone of the economic critique of the British Raj. [3]
(In those days, I favored the more formal "would" for future-in-the-past constructions, in contrast to "was to." )
Example 2, "The Great Famine was preceded by an intense drought on the Deccan Plateau. Earlier, after the Bihar famine of 1873-1874, Mr. Temple, who was now Famine Commissioner for the Indian government, insisted not only on a laissez-faire pol-icy with respect to the grain trade, but also on stricter qualification standards for relief and on more meager relief rations for those in need. Two kinds of relief were offered: "relief works" for able-bodied men, women, and working children, and Food and Famine in the 21st Century `gratuitous (or charitable) relief" for small children, the elderly, and the indigent." (Bimal Kanti Paul (2012), Indian Famines: 1707-1943, pp.49–50, volume 2 (Classical Famines))
My version of 24 May 2008 (see here, and scroll above for date of edit):
"The Great Famine was preceded by an intense drought (or "crop failure") in the Deccan Plateau. [4] Earlier, after the Bihar famine of 1873–74, in which mortality was avoided, the Government of Bengal and its Lieutenant-Governor, Sir Richard Temple, were criticized for excessive expenditure, which had included the costs of importing rice from Burma and providing generous charitable relief. [5] Sensitive to any renewed accusations of excess in 1876, Temple, who was now Famine Commissioner for the Government of India, [6] insisted not only on a policy of laissez faire with respect to the trade in grain, [7] but also on stricter standards of qualification for relief and on more meager relief rations. [6] Two kinds of relief were offered: "relief works" for able-bodied men, women, and working children, and gratuitous (or charitable) relief for small children, the elderly, and the indigent. [8]
We are all familiar with the Wikipedia injunction about discontinuing editing if you are uncomfortable with your words being mangled, stolen, sold, etc., though I can't seem to find the exact quote right now; still, it would have been nice of some attribution had been given to Wikipedia. The irony now is that the copied material is copyrighted in this source—anyone choosing to copy the words again will be violating their copyright not our original. I am used to my words being copied on various India-related websites; even OED copied part of the definition of the British Raj that I had contributed in 2009 or thereabouts. But that was two or three sentences of fine print. These are whole paragraphs of text; they have been published by a fairly reliable publisher. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 14:41, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
Example 3. Plagiarism involving copying from the article
Chalisa famine
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Éxample 3,My edited version of 18 May 2008 (see: here)
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Example 4. Plagiarism involving copying from the article
Doji bara famine
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Example 4, My edited version of 22 May 2008 of the WP article Doji bara famine
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Example 5. Plagiarism involving copying from the article
Rajputana famine of 1869
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Example 5, My edited version of 22 May 2008 of the WP article Rajputana famine of 1869:
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Example 6. Plagiarism involving copying from the article
Indian famine of 1896–97
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Example 6,
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Example 7. Plagiarism involving copying from the article
Indian famine of 1899–1900
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Example 7, My edited version of 16 November 2009 of the WP article Indian famine of 1899–1900:
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References
igi-III-488
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).igi-III-487b
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).@ Doug Weller: "Plagiarism" might be too strong a word to level at someone, in the absence of their perspective. I am happy to change it to something like, "Possible infringement of Wikipedia CC BY-SA 3.0 License and the GFDL" or "Possible Wikipedia copyright violation" Fowler&fowler «Talk» 15:21, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
Wikipedia is copied and pasted without attribution by 100s / 1000s of academics or sources. Typically these are not high quality sources or notable publishers. "ABC-CLIO" is not a serious publisher.
When the Oxford University Press copied and pasted from Wikipedia in one of their medical textbooks that turned out to be news worthy. [1] Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) 16:47, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
I use this template Template:Backwards_copy Than one can pull a list here Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) 17:04, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
I've seen official guidance somewhere that the Bharat Ratna, Padma Shri etc are never to be used as a prefix or suffix to a name. Can we add this to our own guidance at WP:NCIN? - Sitush ( talk) 08:18, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
An Editor has added
[2] Urdu scripts on
Kashmir (that is on my watchlist), against
Wikipedia:INDICSCRIPTS and stated in edit summary that Alternate name in Urdu as being a regional and state language spoken across the border. Its a disputed region therefore WP:INDICSCRIPTS does not apply here
. If this logic has to be followed then it will open possibilities of addition of INDIC Scripts on a large number of articles from Kashmir, Arunachal, etc. Posting here as this needs to be discussed. --
DBig
Xrayᗙ 09:33, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
Hello, please check this script
User:Titodutta/scripts/SearchHelper.js, to install on your
Special:MyPage/common.js use please use:
importScript('User:Titodutta/scripts/SearchHelper.js');
Writ Keeper created Google search script. The script adds several quick search options, see
screenshot, how it looks. Please comment or suggest if any other search option is needed. --
Titodutta (
talk) 09:29, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
Please consider commenting at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Aziz Bagh (2nd nomination). -- Doncram ( talk) 18:53, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
A proposal has been made to apply the equivalent of extended confirmed protection to any article related to conflicts between India and Pakistan. Interested editors are invited to comment on the proposal. Ivanvector ( Talk/ Edits) 15:52, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
In 2007, User:Sumanthk created a plenty of articles ( https://xtools.wmflabs.org/pages/en.wikipedia.org/Sumanthk) about places in Telangana (then Andhra Pradesh). There are more than 200 such articles. These are obviously notable articles, per WP:NGEO. But there is a problem with all these articles. For example, Kerameri; the lead sentence says "Kerameri or Kerimeri is a village and a Mandal in Adilabad district in the state of Telangana in India". This means that the village "Kerameri" and the mandal "Kerameri" have been clubbed into one article. The village and the mandal have the same name, but are not the same. A mandal consists of a group of village, whereas a village is just one village. So there should two different articles. Also this turns problematic while we look at the respective Wikidata item and links from other languages. In this case, Wikidata item: Kerameri (Q3430024), has interwiki links to English, Vietnamese, Nepali, Telugu, and Pampanga Wikipedias. The former two have articles as "village and mandal", whereas the latter three just say "mandal". This is confusing. So I propose to convert all such articles represent "mandals" i.e. removing village-related lines from the articles. I would like to hear more thoughts on this before making changes at mass. KCVelaga ( talk) 05:17, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
Is Tamil Nadu Vanniyar Public Properties Welfare Board a notable governmental department? How far down the bureaucratic line do we usually go? - Sitush ( talk) 08:27, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
Hi friends, the Wikipedia Reference Desk has received a query about the history of the location of the statue of Rafi Ahmed Kidwai in Delhi. If anyone can help, please answer at the Reference Desk. With thanks!! 70.67.193.176 ( talk) 16:10, 6 February 2019 (UTC)
Hello, some time ago we discussed fixing YuviPanda's assessment bar. With the support of IndicTech-Com and specially
User:Jayprakash12345, some changes are made and a temporary version of the fixed script may be seen at:
User:Titodutta/scripts/AssessmentBar.js.
I am not confident that the script is fixed, because I almost never used this script (or I don't remember). Anyone who remembers all the features of this script, please comment. perhaps
User:AshLin,
User:BPositive?--
Titodutta (
talk) 06:45, 24 January 2019 (UTC)
Ajf773 has deleted information about police station and fire station from the Baranagar page noting Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not#Wikipedia is not a directory.The point made was “every city has at least one police and fire station, what makes these ones so special”.I had undone the deletion with the argument, “There is a gulf of difference between the advanced countries and backward countries. Here administrative and civic facilities are limited and so are important. The information provided here is basic and minimum.” These have again been deleted. Drmies, an admin, deleted the information, “The headquarters of Ketugram II CD Block are located at Gangatikuri” from the Gangatikuri page with the comment “so?”. I have placed back the material with a note on the talk page of Gangatikuri, “CD block HQ … so? Well, CD blocks are large development administrative areas in the post-colonial era. The headquarters of each such area is an important centre where administrative offices and other facilities are located. In extensive agricultural areas, these small adiminstrative locations are in focus” It is still there. I have been adding content/ information about community development blocks, subdivision etc, with the focus mainly on rural areas. Recently, I have also started working on town/ village pages. I work mostly on pages related to Wet Bengal and the surrounding areas. With this NOT A DIRECTORY issue, hundreds of pages put up by me and others, will get affected. Pages with information about police stations, headquarters of community development blocks, probably even municipalities, other civic bodies, educational institutions and so on will get affected. Such deletions will make a mess of the pages. Please have a look at one of my more recent community development block page and a village page – Goalpokhar I and Kushmandi, Dakshin Dinajpur. These are different, in a long way, from what is published about the more developed countries. With all the push for standardisation and globalisation, I am doubtful about who will come from where and what will remain of such pages. Is it worth spending all the time and effort? I still have the heart to say, Cheers, - Chandan Guha ( talk) 01:27, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
Hello, |
I have listed this article at PR as I want any potential issue to be solved before I take it to FAC. I hope someone regularly monitoring this page will read this and post comments. -- Kailash29792 (talk) 06:59, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
◆◆Durganagar, and Laketown location is same details. But Laketown page wikipedia name is Laketown, Kolkata . Kindly see the page :- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Town,_Kolkata .So at this point if Laketown page main name is Laketown , Kolkata possible, so why can not possible for Durganagar page name as Durganagar, Kolkata ? ◆◆A new person name Jeet Dev remove previous Durganagar, Kolkata page Information. Today i again write previous page information of Durganagar, Kolkata. About 4 months ago of date 4 October 2018 time 8:23 the page information i put and you verified it. But recent 2 days a person name jeet dev remove the all previous page information which information is no need for this page as compare previous information. Today again jeet dev remove all previous page information so i again put previous page information because it is better from jeet dev information. So you Kindly take a action jeet dev which information is no good than previous information which edit 4 months ago. The previous 4 month's edit information is better than jeet dev information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AmitMondal1299 ( talk • contribs) 20:01, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Washim#Basim. Shhhnotsoloud ( talk) 08:44, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
Hello, I came across this user's contributions recently, and would like someone to take a look. Examples below:
I have left a message on his talk page and directed his attention to this discussion thread. — Nearly Headless Nick {c} 19:19, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
Hi all, at Uri: The Surgical Strike I've seen Azad Kashmir get changed a couple of times to Pakistan Occupied Kashmir. Yes, I'm aware this is a sensitive area, which is why I'm here to ask if there is an agreed-upon way to handle this, so as not to run afoul of ArbCom determinations. Thoughts? The Wikipedia article on the region points to Azad Kashmir, so that would seem to be the "preferred" designation, but feedback is appreciated. Thanks, Cyphoidbomb ( talk) 17:13, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
My personal observation is that most of the private engineering colleges (which have been mushrooming like anything in the last decade or so) does not get any significant coverage in more than 75-80% of cases. The same about secondary schools, roughly. Always almost; these articles attract a constant flux of promo-spam and it's difficult to distinguish between an encyclopedic article and a brochure.
I have thus nominated Ghanashyam Hemalata Institute of Technology and Management (and it's duplicate:- Ghanashyama Hemalata Institute of Technology and Management) for deletion over this AfD because I am unable to locate an iota of reliable coverage despite it's verifiable existence.
I will be grateful, if other members of this project let their views known here and/or over the AfD. About whether I was correct in my hypothesis that these colleges usually never manage to garner any non-advertorial significant coverage (and that it's not our inability to access regional sources; which's affecting the issue) and whether routine private colleges (which does not pass GNG in the most loosest of interpretations) need be deleted. And anything else. ∯WBG converse 15:26, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
All universities, colleges and schools, including high schools, middle schools, primary (elementary) schools, and schools that only provide a support to mainstream education must satisfy either this guideline (WP:ORG) or the general notability guideline, or both. No need to add emphasis anywhere. - The Gnome ( talk) 12:51, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
The article 2016 Uri attack has seen a flood of IP edits over the last few months that seem to have completely changed the meaning of parts of the article. At least half of these edits have to be vandalism, but I honestly have no idea which version of the article is the last good one, or which intermediate edits may be salvageable. Many edits and series of edits have been reverted, but I strongly suspect these reverts have left older vandalism untouched. I think the article could really use review, top to bottom, by someone familiar with this topic area. Thanks. Someguy1221 ( talk) 05:49, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#India/Pakistan. DBig Xrayᗙ 11:25, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
I have nominated this article about a place called Gaur Niwas in Dehradun for deletion.You are welcome to join the discussion. If someone can help me find references, that would be of great help.-- DreamLinker ( talk) 15:50, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
Hello WPI. I've just stumbled across recent edits to Punjabi script. At the moment, the article states that:
Punjabi (پن٘جابی) is a Perso-Arabic alphabet with eight new alphabets(ٻ ڄ ݙ ݢ ڳ ݨ ݪ ݢ) along with 39 urdu alphabets developed by Punjabi Language Acticists in Punjab, Pakistan to write the Punjabi language. It is generally written in the Nastaʿlīq calligraphic hand. Punjabi Script [1] is one of three scripts used for Punjabi, the others being Gurmukhi and Shahmukhi [2].
It is also used as the alphabet to write the Pothohari, Hindko and Saraiki Dialect. Punjabi script and Shahmukhi is written from right to left, while Gurmukhi is written from left to right..
It is also used as the alphabet to write the Pothohari, Hindko and Saraiki Dialect. Punjabi script and Shahmukhi is written from right to left, while Gurmukhi is written from left to right.
References
This article was originally created in 2011 by User:Kwamikagami as a redirect, most recently to Gurmukhi. Today new editor User:Punjab Post replaced the redirect with the article mentioned above. Is this notable? Not being a reader of Punjabi, I can find nothing about it online in English language WP:RS, and it seems to be WP:OR, or a low-notability project by the abovementioned "Punjabi language activists". The Hannover Uni reference doesn't seem to mention it. Is the script notable? Thanks for any assistance. Flapjacktastic ( talk) 14:24, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
Pathadippalam needs attention. Please see the concerns I expressed in the prod tag at the top of the article, and the TP discussion that began this morning. I am reluctant to move it to the correct spelling while there is an AfC with the correct spelling in draft space. Thank you. Atsme 📣 📧 15:58, 9 March 2019 (UTC)
Hello, we had a project called Indian collaboration of the Month. In this project we used to improve an India-related article every month. It is currently inactive. I think we can restart this initiative. Any suggestion/opinion? Regards. -- Titodutta ( talk) 19:12, 25 February 2019 (UTC)
I have nominated List of state and union territory capitals in India for featured list removal here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured list criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks; editors may declare to "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Gotitbro ( talk) 15:43, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
CAC/PAC JF-17 Thunder ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs) was recently fully protected because of POV pushing an edit warring. The fight continues in the form of edit requests on the talk page. I am completely ignorant about anything having to do with the military of Pakistan and India other than hoping that they don't nuke each other, so I would really appreciate it if someone else would look at the page and evaluate the edit requests. Thanks! -- Guy Macon ( talk) 15:08, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
Is the creation of redirects of the type City, District okay ? << FR ( mobileUndo) 06:48, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
Where can I find the new version of the assessment bar? Thanks in advance AshLin ( talk) 08:42, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
Can someone please sort out the wikitext for the section above. The transclusion is defective & no edit button appears for the Discussion section.— Preceding unsigned comment added by AshLin ( talk • contribs) 14:40, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Americans#American expats in India . RightCowLeftCoast ( Moo) 01:42, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
Could someone from WP:INDIA take a look at Kashmir Life and assess it per WP:NMAG or WP:NME? The magazine does apper to exist, but it's been flag as unreferenced since February 2016 and there never have appeared to have been any citatons to reliable sources added since the article was created back in January 2015. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 05:09, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
I am deeply disturbed at India-POV pushing at a number of India-Pakistan conflict related pages. These are Indo-Pakistani War of 1965, in whose infobox it is being astoundingly claimed that the war ended in an Indian victory, on a basis of selectively adducing some sources, most of which are not exactly scholarly. The same is true of the page Indo-Pakistani wars and conflicts and a number of Kashmir-related pages. Since the number of Pakistani editors are considerably fewer now, it seems that the India-POV editors are getting away with highly unencyclopedic edits. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 04:02, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
I have boldly redirected a newly created Chowkidar Chor Hai, which was clearly violating WP:BLP and was written in a POV tone. Similar POV content can be also seen at Rahul Gandhi#Indian general election, 2019.
Slogans are non-notable and serve no purpose since Wikipedia is not a soapboax. @ Sitush and Utcursch: take a glance. 139.167.161.20 ( talk) 18:09, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
A new user has created few poorly sourced articles related to Hinduism: [3]. So someone with the relevant knowledge should have a look at them. - NitinMlk ( talk) 22:59, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
India City Competitiveness Index needs deletion. In the whole article there is no mention of the index, its definition or a single reference. Plus I could not locate any meaningful refrence (through shallow googling). Comments please? AshLin ( talk) 06:08, 2 April 2019 (UTC)
In general, there are 5-6 writing system for punjabi language and two major are Shahmukhi and Gurmukhi. Gurmukhi is used in india while shahmukhi in pakistan. Shahmukhi can write only majhi/lahori dialect, therefore for the unity of all dialects of Punjabi, in pakistan a new script was developed and the name of script is Punjabi/punjabi script. More info is in link >> https://www.omniglot.com/conscripts/punjabi.htm Thats why i created the page, Punjabi Script but wikipdia members reverted and asked me for discussion. So thats why i am telling details here. I request wikipedia administrators to publish the page Punjabi scipt or Punjabi Alphabets which will explain this script. still if you have any question then let me know — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rana Zubair Punjabi ( talk • contribs) 07:04, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
I recently happened upon the Narendra Modi page. Its lead has the curious verbal subterfuge: "He left home after graduating from school, partly because of an arranged marriage which he rejected. Modi travelled around India for two years and visited a number of religious centres ..." This is presumably summarizing a slightly longer verbal sleight-of-hand from his early childhood section, which states, "Engaged while still ( sic) a child to Jashodaben, a girl from a family who (sic) lived close by, Modi rejected the (sic) arranged marriage at the same time he graduated from high school. [1] The resulting familial tensions contributed to his decision to leave home in 1967. [2]" Let us for a moment forget what the "biography," which is cited, says, but what does "rejection of an arranged marriage" mean? How is it different from the more common form of abandonment, or desertion, practised in relatively large numbers by Hindu men in small-town and rural India? He is, after all, legally married to the lady, the infobox says it. The Wikipedia lead and introduction section seem to be implying that this one was somehow more principled. We can't say that this is because the biography says so, because there are many high-quality sources, e.g. a New York Times article written by a Pulitzer prize winner, Ellen Barry, as well as many others in the Guardian, Washington Post, Financial Times, CNN, The Hindu that simply state: he was married in 1968, abandoned his marriage, and thereafter did not acknowledge his marital status publicly until Spring of 2014. Surely there is more NPOV language than what is currently in the article. Wikipedia is written for an international audience. Most global readers will not be able to parse "rejecting a marriage," let alone what it means to do so for 45 years. Pinging @ Vanamonde93:. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 12:29, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
References
"Some time during his childhood, a form of traditional betrothal with a girl, and leading to eventual marriage, was arranged for him by his family. In 1968, when he was 18, they were married, however, soon thereafter, he, but not her, abandoned the further obligations implicit in this arrangement. Mr Modi had no further contact with the young woman, Jashodaben Chimanlal. For the next 45 years he denied in reliably recorded public statements that he was married. However, in Spring 2014, before the national elections that swept him to power, Mr Modi affirmed in a sworn affidavit that he was indeed married and his spouse was indeed Ms Chimanlal." There are plenty reliable citations for these:
Some references relevant to Mr Modi's marriage.
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Fowler&fowler
«Talk» 03:16, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
|
@ Gazoth: OK, so we'll change it to:
"During his childhood, as a part of a custom traditional to his caste, his family arranged a betrothal to a girl, Jashodaben Chimanlal. The two were married when he was a teenager. Sometime thereafter, he abandoned the further obligations implicit in the custom, such as cohabitation, and the couple went on to lead separate lives, neither marrying again, the marriage itself remaining unmentioned in Mr Modi's public pronouncements for the next 45 years. However, in April 2014, shortly before the national elections that swept him to power, Mr Modi affirmed in a sworn affidavit that he was married and his spouse was Ms Chimanlal. The couple has remained married, but estranged."
How does that sound? I would imagine this is fairly NPOV and in resonance with the sources listed by you. This is for the Early Life section, and would need to be summarized further for the lead. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 10:34, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
A new Newsletter directory has been created to replace the old, out-of-date one. If your WikiProject and its taskforces have newsletters (even inactive ones), or if you know of a missing newsletter (including from sister projects like WikiSpecies), please include it in the directory! The template can be a bit tricky, so if you need help, just post the newsletter on the template's talk page and someone will add it for you.
I'm afraid some people are promoting strange POV in a number of clothing related pages: Kurta, Shalwar kameez, Muslin, History of clothing in (sic) the Indian subcontinent and probably quite a few others, citing obscure references that make the case that kurta and shalwar are depicted in the Ajanta caves, ... I am dismayed to see these articles in much worse shape than they were ten years ago. I have intervened at Kurta, and will do so in Shalwar kameez, but I don't want to waste more time haggling about trifles. Could some good samaritans or admins please step in and stem the rot? Best regard, Fowler&fowler «Talk» 22:40, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
Interesting discussion all. However, that Goa should still be described as being in ‘Southwestern India’ is problematic for a number of reasons.
Firstly, if you go through the history of the page you will see the change from ‘Western’ to ‘southwestern’ was done by a vandal who referenced pig farming as their source material.
Secondly, to a casual reader, for whom Wikipedia is intended, Goa may be inferred to be a South Indian State. It is not and therefore the current description is misleading.
Goa is neither linguistically not politically a South Indian State. Users navigating the North Indian and South Indian pages (from this perspective) would be confused. Additionally, it also ignores Goa’s recent history and it almost being merged with Maharashtra (which is not in South India).
Thirdly, the simplest answer is the right answer. The above conversation seems to ignore the fact that Goa was described as being in Western India rather than southwestern India for a number of years. Given that the change was done by a vandal, the simplest answer would be to revert to the original.
I propose reverting to Goa being in Western India. Goingoan ( talk) 13:23, 9 February 2020 (UTC)
I'm afraid some people are promoting strange POV in a number of clothing related pages: Kurta, Shalwar kameez, Muslin, History of clothing in (sic) the Indian subcontinent and probably quite a few others, citing obscure references that make the case that kurta and shalwar are depicted in the Ajanta caves, ... I am dismayed to see these articles in much worse shape than they were ten years ago. I have intervened at Kurta, and will do so in Shalwar kameez, but I don't want to waste more time haggling about trifles. Could some good samaritans or admins please step in and stem the rot? Best regard, Fowler&fowler «Talk» 22:40, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
Recently, content supported by reliable Indian Government sources have been deleted from Indian state articles' leads, for example
this. The editor , who removed the contents argued that the "Government Definitions" shouldn't be used in "Geographic Places" and he seems to only care about what's written in
Oxford Dictionaries and
Encyclopedia Britannica. Point is, Indian states are political entities not geographical places, so Indian govt sources from institutes like
Ministry of Home Affairs (India),
Ministry of Culture (India) and
Ministry of Minority Affairs should be mentioned there as well for the sake of
WP:NPOV. Moreover, states are not bound within a single geographical region either. States like Maharashtra and Uttar Pradesh are well into central India. Text like "Uttar Pradesh is in northern India" is just as confusing when you find its neighbouring state Bihar "is a state in eastern India"
I agree that mentioning multiple regions in the opening sentence may be confusing but
Germany has it,
Turkey has it and
Spain also mentions Western and Southern Europe in the lede. And none of these articles seem to cite Britannica, etc. not to mention that Britannica is not considered that much reliable as per
this. And this can be taken care of by mentioning which govt. sources are grouping the states within which zone in the latter part of the lede. -
Fylindfotberserk (
talk) 09:37, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
Discussion from GotitBro's
talkpage
|
---|
Why are you deleting reliable govt. sourced content from articles like Uttar Pradesh and Bihar? Different Indian Govt. sources group states into different regions that need to be highlighted in the article. The regional terms like North India or East India are not mentioned in the article bodies either. If you want, different govt. definitions can be added in the article body and then highlighted in the lead. Check Germany which mentions it being part of "Central and Western Europe". Lead fixation can be corrected as well. - Fylindfotberserk ( talk) 07:10, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
The
WP:LEAD has to be straightforward and uncomplicated, by mentioning multiple zones/regions add on top of that mentioning govt. sources is the opposite of that. Moreover the govt. zones shouldn't be used to describe the location of the states especially when their location is widely described otherwise [also the government zones are for administrative purposes which do not consider the situation of places]. Britannica isn't the only source but it is definitely a guideline and has been used as the basis of a lot of articles on Wikipedia. What you're suggesting is just confusing and simply unencyclopedic.
Gotitbro (
talk) 09:46, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
|
@ Abecedare: Thanks and I agree that refbombing is a part of POV pushing but since I'm inclusionist by nature, I typically do not delete relevant sources but try to balance it out by deleting overlinks and putting sources where it is due till we reach a consensus like in this case.
@
BelgaumGoan: Sorry I forgot to invite you to this discussion. Anyway, we have agreed to neither include each and every geo-political definition nor to put a specific definition especially for larger states, but to have generalized description in the opening sentence, I believe this :- "..is a state in the western peninsular region of India occupying a substantial portion of the Deccan plateau."
encompasses the "western,central and southern" thing. -
Fylindfotberserk (
talk) 10:51, 2 April 2019 (UTC)
..is a state in the western peninsular region of India occupying a substantial portion of the Deccan plateau."you didn't say maharashtra also expands to part of central India. For example,Vidharbha is large part of maharashtra similar to Madhya pradesh and it was once considered Central Provinces. BelgaumGoan ( talk) 13:39, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
Uttar Pradesh, the most populous and fourth largest state of India. It lies in the north-central part of the country.. According to some editors here, Britannica is a guideline to be followed. On a similar note tell me by what tectonic shift in the English language (or is it German), the Germany article lede mentions it to be
... a country in Central and Western Europe? Why not any specific location? Pinging @ Abecedare: - Fylindfotberserk ( talk) 18:12, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
@ Fylindfotberserk: I should have explained more. The problem is that the term "north central" is not always well-defined. Often it means situated centrally (ie in the lateral center) and to the north. Thus North Central American English is the same as Upper Midwestern English spoken in such states at Minnesota, Michigan, North and South Dakota, but these are hardly in the vertical center of the US. In the US Census map, File:Census_Regions_and_Division_of_the_United_States.svg Minnesota is in North Central, and Louisiana in South Central, though neither is in the vertical center. In this way of thinking, Kashmir would be in north central India. In other words, you are attempting to make a science of something which is at best an art. Go with the least common denominator, one that is unambiguously understood. Northern India is easily understood. Later in the article, one can get into the specifics. But the lead of an article, especially the lead sentence is not where you want to get too specific. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 04:55, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
There is an RfC on whether all Wikipedia categories should use the spelling "organization" (regardless of the respective country) taking place here. Number 5 7 19:27, 18 April 2019 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Carnatic music is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Carnatic music until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America 1000 06:30, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Indore is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Indore until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America 1000 07:10, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
Please give your input on changing History of domes in South Asia to History of Indo-Islamic domes on Talk:History of domes in South Asia#Change name to History of Indo-Islamic domes. Thank you! ( Highpeaks35 ( talk) 01:36, 25 April 2019 (UTC))
Can someone cleanup all links under Malabar#India? Many Wikipedians are confused on which articles to edit? Some edit the wrong Malabar article and cause confusion on what the article as a whole is talking about. Malabar articles need to be reviewed and here needs to be wider consensus on the topics of Malabar in India. I hope for cleanup relating to these articles so readers are not confused. Manabimasu ( talk) 03:00, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
I'd like to invite members of this project to familiarise themselves with MOS:TV and {{ Infobox television}}. Category:Pages using infobox television with unknown parameters is a category that I keep on my watchlist and it is predominantly populated by Indian TV program articles. Having to fix 5 or more articles each day is not an unusual task for me and most of the articles that I have to repair reveal multiple errors throughout the article. More often than not, these are simple errors demonstrating a basic non-compliance with MOS:TV but especially the infobox instructions. Other errors include compliance MOS:CAPS, MOS:BOLD etc and all are avoidable by someone whop has taken the time to read the instructions. Your assistance in this matter is greatly appreciated. -- AussieLegend ( ✉) 09:51, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
Hello,
It gives us great pleasure to inform that the Train-the-Trainer (TTT) 2019 programme organised by CIS-A2K is going to be held from 31 May, 1 & 2 June 2019.
What is TTT?
Train the Trainer or TTT is a residential training program. The program attempts to groom leadership skills among the Indian Wikimedia community members. Earlier TTT has been conducted in 2013, 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2018.
Who should apply?
Please learn more about this program and apply to participate or encourage the deserving candidates from your community to do so. Regards. -- Tito (CIS-A2K), sent using MediaWiki message delivery ( talk) 05:07, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
I've deleted earlier versions twice as pure copyvio. I've had to delete some of this for the same reason. I've posted some of my concerns to Talk:Deo Sun Temple but it still needs a lot of work. Eg the lead, which I haven't touched:
" Deo Sun Temple, Devark Temple, Deo Surya Mandir is a 8th-century CE sun temple at Deo about 10 kilometres southeast from Aurangabad district, Bihar [1] [2] on the coastline of Bihar, India. [3] The Times of India News & Scientist say that The temple is Built by Chandravanshi King but some news say that This temple is built by God Vishvakarman in one night. [4] [5] So no proof of who made and how. Deo is the place of historical importance where tourist can find ruins of ancient Deo Fort mainly built in the era of the king Raja Jagannath Singh. Inscriptions show that in the year 2017, the construction period of this mythological temple has completed one hundred fifty thousand seventeen years. [5] sun temple at Deo is one of Bihars top famous temples and attracts in holl times. [6]"
The temple definitely needs an article and deserves something much better than this. It even has a section heading "cculpture". Doug Weller talk 15:07, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
References
jagran.com
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).auto
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Hi all, recently I've encountered a problematic user who was adding a ton of poorly conceived honorifics to various biographical folk, and then he did weird stuff like move "MGR Memorial" to "Bharat Ratna Puratchi Thalaivar Dr.MGR and Puratchi Thalaivi Amma Selvi J Jayalalithaa Memorial" as if anyone would ever type that into a search engine. (See this) Another thing he did was move Anna Memorial to Perarignar Anna Memorial and I have since moved it back per WP:COMMONNAME, although I'd like to see if anyone wants to educate me on whether that was a good idea or not. (There was only one Google News hit for the longer term, whereas the simpler Anna Memorial was used far more often.) Also, what does "Perarignar" mean? Thanks, Cyphoidbomb ( talk) 15:29, 28 April 2019 (UTC)
Please participate in a Request for Comments on the primary title of this language. Robert McClenon ( talk) 03:53, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
Anyone familiar with Korakkar? There have been some contributions since my last edit there that have been going back and forth a bit and I'm not sure what is verified and what is not. - Sitush ( talk) 11:13, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
Mains electricity describes what this is called in the US, UK, and Canada, but not India. It would be nice if folks more familiar with Indian English could add a note explaining that. I'm also interested to know if there's a single term that would be intelligible globally, as "mains electricity" is apparently unfamiliar to many Americans. So if it's known by more than one term in Indian English, that would be very helpful to know. Thanks! -- Beland ( talk) 01:11, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Newar is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Newar until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America 1000 10:15, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
Would request any admin active here to check the article on Guha (surname), and protect the same. This article has been a subject of persistent vandalism by a particular user, as evident from its Revision History, and that too in spite of discussions on the article's talk page as well as issuing warning on the user's talk page. Thanks. Ekdalian ( talk) 06:51, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
Parkala Massacre, an article that you or your project may be interested in, has been nominated for a community good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. ∯WBG converse 06:17, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
Apologies for writing in English, please consider translating
Greetings from CIS-A2K,
The Wikimedia Education SAARC conference will take place on 20-22 June 2019. Wikimedians from Indian, Sri Lanka, Bhutan, Nepal, Bangladesh and Afghanistan can apply for the scholarship. This event will take place at Christ University, Bangalore.
Who should apply?
Please know more about this program and apply to participate or encourage the deserving candidates from your community to do so. Regards. Ananth (CIS-A2K) using MediaWiki message delivery ( talk) 13:54, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
Hi,
Can someone help render the accurate translation for the following line from Maduraikkanchi (line 144) ?
தென் பரதவர் போ ரேறே
The context is:
நற் கொற்கை யோர்நசைப் பொருந
செற்ற தெவ்வர் கலங்கத் தலைச்சென்று
அஞ்சுவரத் தட்கும் அணங்குடைத் துப்பிற் . . .140
கோழூ உன்குறைக் கொழு வல்சிப்
புலவு விற் பொலி கூவை
ஒன்று மொழி ஒலி யிருப்பில்
தென் பரதவர் போ ரேறே
The full poem can be accessed at https://www.projectmadurai.org/pm_etexts/utf8/pmuni0071.html
Thanks, Nittawinoda ( talk) 20:04, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
Hi,
I posted a question about capitalization in the names of Indian subdivisions at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (geographic names) that may be of interest to people in this project. Regards, Tdslk ( talk) 21:18, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Karnataka is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
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A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Goa is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
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A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Urdu is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
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A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Ayyavazhi is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Ayyavazhi until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
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Hi all. With my sysop spectacles on, I can see that no article myneta, myneta.in or myneta.info has ever been created. It nevertheless is extensively used as a reference in Indian politics articles. Is this website a reliable source for biographies of Indian politicians? Pete AU aka -- Shirt58 ( talk) 13:28, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
Another editor has created the article Purje Song. Would someone familiar with Punjabi music please look at the article and consider whether the article should be kept. Eastmain ( talk • contribs) 03:30, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
I would appreciate some thoughts at Talk:Peint State. - Sitush ( talk) 05:25, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
This bull-shitty POV page is apparently linked from hundreds, if not thousands, of articles [8]. Please watch list it and help clean it up. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 10:33, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
There is a discussion on the reliability of Osianama ( osianama.com) on the reliable sources noticeboard. If you're interested, please participate at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard § Kalpana Mohan Page. — Newslinger talk 08:53, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
There is a discussion on the reliability of PTC Punjabi on the reliable sources noticeboard. If you're interested, please participate at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard § PTCPunjabi. — Newslinger talk 08:58, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
Does each village really have an elected sarpanch? I'm seeing it in every village article that I edit, it is rarely sourced and my mind boggles sometimes, eg: one such village has 3 houses and 16 people. - Sitush ( talk) 16:20, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
So, a village might be un-inhabited and covered under a major gram panchayat may not have a sarpanch.-- Vin09 (talk) 03:04, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
So the only way to verify the articles you mention is to pull up the latest district census handbook for the district that the village is a part ofbut in the Udaipur example you gave I cannot see where the information lies. Sure, I can see p 13 and its summary but, for example, Mavli has 42 Gram Panchayat covering 179 villages, and the pages around pp 85 list the villages (I presume these are Revenue Villages) in Mavli CD Block but I can't see any grouping by Gram Panchayat anywhere. I'm doing something wrong, obviously. Sorry for being a pain: this has always confused me. - Sitush ( talk) 05:20, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
Will each place named on those pages (below the heading rows) have a sarpanch?No, it will not. In the case of the earlier example of Mavli tehsil, one would first verify the village name in DCHB (say, the first village under Mavli, 'Neta ka Gurha'), then go to a source like the district's official website which shows that Neta ka Gurha is NOT a panchayat. Therefore, Neta ka Gurha would NOT have a sarpanch. Deccantrap ( talk) 05:50, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
There are a few villages, which are not in census doc, I think they are not census villages, might be a part of revenue village or a small hamlet. Gram panchayats will have a sarpanch. As User:Deccantrap said, need to check other sources for example: villages (Guntur district, AP) and gram panchayat sarpanchs (Guntur district, AP). -- Vin09 (talk) 05:54, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
Woah, I've found the gram panchayat listing in the 2001 census - p 1296 here - showing which villages are under which GP. Of course, that may have changed by 2011 but it does imply that the info probably exists somewhere in the 2011 documents also. - Sitush ( talk) 06:52, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
In an effort to resolve years-long content disputes, there are currently a few requests for comments active at Kamarupi Prakrit and Kamrupi dialect. It would be helpful if some fresh eyes could take a look and comment. Editors who are knowledgeable about or interested in linguistics and/or history of Assam may be particularly well-positioned to contribute. Here is the current list of discussions:
Thanks. Abecedare ( talk) 21:14, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
ILM Academy needs a rewrite. Supposedly there are enough reliable sources for an article as The Hindu covered it, but it needs to be written in the Wikipedia style. WhisperToMe ( talk) 02:00, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Malayalam cinema is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Malayalam cinema until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America 1000 12:02, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
Any thoughts on how to title articles for villages in Mawal taluka that share similar names? We've got Brahman Wadi and Brahmanwadi but it turns out that there are two villages in Mawal with the latter name, per the 2011 census. I know how we distinguish when villages share the same name but are in different talukas but this situation is a new one for me. - Sitush ( talk) 12:06, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
<village name>, <mandal/tehsil/taluka name>-- Vin09 (talk) 06:04, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Thiruvananthapuram is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Thiruvananthapuram until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
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A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Kollam is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Kollam until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America 1000 02:47, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Udaipur is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Udaipur until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America 1000 02:50, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
Hello, I would like to inform the project of an article that cites zero sources: Defence Avionics Research Establishment. starship .paint ( talk) 02:52, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Could somebody take a look at Draft:Souvik Mandal. It's a bit of a mess. I suspect there may be the germ of a good article in there, but it's quite badly written. Hopefully, somebody more familiar with the culture will be able to make more sense out of it than I can. Thanks. -- RoySmith (talk) 17:52, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
DBigXray. Clearly the draft uploader is enthusiastic, and we should do our very best to guide the editor and the draft through the AfC process. But if they've accidentally outed themselves, then we should act in their benefit. I guess I'm proposing that until we hear otherwise from the draft uploader, RoySmith or another admin move the draft to a new title, without a history merge, to protect the identify of the editor. I'll drop a note at AN. Cesdeva (talk) 21:36, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
Hello. With the efforts of User:Gazoth, now we have more than 114 thousand images uploaded from Press Information Bureau on Wikimedia Commons under the license GODL-India. Unfortunately, over thirty thousand of them are still not categorized. I'll be very grateful, if some users can lend a hand in helping me categorizing these images at Category:Images from Press Information Bureau needing categories. My apologies if this isn't the right place to ask for this. Thanks. — Sarvatra ( talk, contribs) 13:25, 19 January 2019 (UTC)
I recently came across the source Bimal Kanti Paul (2012), "Indian Famines: 1707-1943", in William A. Dando (ed) (ed.),
Food and Famine in the 21st Century, ABC-CLIO, pp. 39–57,
ISBN
978-1-59884-730-7 {{
citation}}
: |editor=
has generic name (
help). This source was being cited in the article
Great Famine of 1876–1878 which I had written in 2008. (See
this talk page discussion). When I examined the source, I noticed that some paragraphs seemed familiar. They had my style of writing. Indeed after some rummaging, I found text that had been lifted (i.e. copied verbatim) from the same Wikipedia article to which it was now being cited. Who is the author of the source? He is
Bimal Kanti Paul, a professor at Kansas State University. I offer below two example. (There might be others as well. I had written several Indian famine articles around that time.)
Example 1, from the source: "After the Great Famine, a large number of agricultural laborers and handloom weavers in South India immigrated ( sic) to British tropical colonies to work as indentured laborers on plantations. The excessive deaths experienced in this famine also neutralized natural population growth in the Bombay and Madras presidencies between the first and second censuses of British India carried out in 1871 and 1881, respectively. The Great Famine was to have a lasting political impact on events in India. Among the British administrators in India who were unsettled by the official reactions to this famine and, in particular, by the stifling of the official debate about the best form of famine relief, were William Wedderbum and A. O. Hume. Less than a decade later, they would found the Indian National Congress and, in turn, influence a generation of nationalists such as Dadabhai Naoroji and Romesh Chunder Dutt, for whom the Great Famine would become a cornerstone to [sic] the economic critique of the British Raj." (Bimal Kanti Paul (2012), Indian Famines: 1707-1943, p.50, volume 2 (Classical Famines))
Contrast with my version at the end of my first edits of 23rd and 24th May 2008 (see here, and scroll to the top to view the date of edit):
After the famine, a large number of agricultural laborers and handloom weavers in South India emigrated to British tropical colonies to work as indentured laborers in plantations. [1] The excessive mortality in the famine also neutralized the natural population growth in the Bombay and Madras presidencies during the decade between the first and second censuses of British India in 1871 and 1881 respectively. [2] The Great Famine was to have a lasting political impact on events in India; among the British administrators in India who were unsettled by the official reactions to the famine and, in particular by the stifling of the official debate about the best form of famine relief, were William Wedderburn and A. O. Hume. [3] Less than a decade later, they would found the Indian National Congress and, in turn, influence a generation of nationalists such as Dadabhai Naoroji and Romesh Chunder Dutt for whom the Great Famine would become a cornerstone of the economic critique of the British Raj. [3]
(In those days, I favored the more formal "would" for future-in-the-past constructions, in contrast to "was to." )
Example 2, "The Great Famine was preceded by an intense drought on the Deccan Plateau. Earlier, after the Bihar famine of 1873-1874, Mr. Temple, who was now Famine Commissioner for the Indian government, insisted not only on a laissez-faire pol-icy with respect to the grain trade, but also on stricter qualification standards for relief and on more meager relief rations for those in need. Two kinds of relief were offered: "relief works" for able-bodied men, women, and working children, and Food and Famine in the 21st Century `gratuitous (or charitable) relief" for small children, the elderly, and the indigent." (Bimal Kanti Paul (2012), Indian Famines: 1707-1943, pp.49–50, volume 2 (Classical Famines))
My version of 24 May 2008 (see here, and scroll above for date of edit):
"The Great Famine was preceded by an intense drought (or "crop failure") in the Deccan Plateau. [4] Earlier, after the Bihar famine of 1873–74, in which mortality was avoided, the Government of Bengal and its Lieutenant-Governor, Sir Richard Temple, were criticized for excessive expenditure, which had included the costs of importing rice from Burma and providing generous charitable relief. [5] Sensitive to any renewed accusations of excess in 1876, Temple, who was now Famine Commissioner for the Government of India, [6] insisted not only on a policy of laissez faire with respect to the trade in grain, [7] but also on stricter standards of qualification for relief and on more meager relief rations. [6] Two kinds of relief were offered: "relief works" for able-bodied men, women, and working children, and gratuitous (or charitable) relief for small children, the elderly, and the indigent. [8]
We are all familiar with the Wikipedia injunction about discontinuing editing if you are uncomfortable with your words being mangled, stolen, sold, etc., though I can't seem to find the exact quote right now; still, it would have been nice of some attribution had been given to Wikipedia. The irony now is that the copied material is copyrighted in this source—anyone choosing to copy the words again will be violating their copyright not our original. I am used to my words being copied on various India-related websites; even OED copied part of the definition of the British Raj that I had contributed in 2009 or thereabouts. But that was two or three sentences of fine print. These are whole paragraphs of text; they have been published by a fairly reliable publisher. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 14:41, 20 January 2019 (UTC)
Example 3. Plagiarism involving copying from the article
Chalisa famine
|
---|
Éxample 3,My edited version of 18 May 2008 (see: here)
|
Example 4. Plagiarism involving copying from the article
Doji bara famine
|
---|
Example 4, My edited version of 22 May 2008 of the WP article Doji bara famine
|
Example 5. Plagiarism involving copying from the article
Rajputana famine of 1869
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Example 5, My edited version of 22 May 2008 of the WP article Rajputana famine of 1869:
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Example 6. Plagiarism involving copying from the article
Indian famine of 1896–97
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Example 6,
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Example 7. Plagiarism involving copying from the article
Indian famine of 1899–1900
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Example 7, My edited version of 16 November 2009 of the WP article Indian famine of 1899–1900:
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References
igi-III-488
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).igi-III-487b
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).@ Doug Weller: "Plagiarism" might be too strong a word to level at someone, in the absence of their perspective. I am happy to change it to something like, "Possible infringement of Wikipedia CC BY-SA 3.0 License and the GFDL" or "Possible Wikipedia copyright violation" Fowler&fowler «Talk» 15:21, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
Wikipedia is copied and pasted without attribution by 100s / 1000s of academics or sources. Typically these are not high quality sources or notable publishers. "ABC-CLIO" is not a serious publisher.
When the Oxford University Press copied and pasted from Wikipedia in one of their medical textbooks that turned out to be news worthy. [1] Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) 16:47, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
I use this template Template:Backwards_copy Than one can pull a list here Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) 17:04, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
I've seen official guidance somewhere that the Bharat Ratna, Padma Shri etc are never to be used as a prefix or suffix to a name. Can we add this to our own guidance at WP:NCIN? - Sitush ( talk) 08:18, 29 January 2019 (UTC)
An Editor has added
[2] Urdu scripts on
Kashmir (that is on my watchlist), against
Wikipedia:INDICSCRIPTS and stated in edit summary that Alternate name in Urdu as being a regional and state language spoken across the border. Its a disputed region therefore WP:INDICSCRIPTS does not apply here
. If this logic has to be followed then it will open possibilities of addition of INDIC Scripts on a large number of articles from Kashmir, Arunachal, etc. Posting here as this needs to be discussed. --
DBig
Xrayᗙ 09:33, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
Hello, please check this script
User:Titodutta/scripts/SearchHelper.js, to install on your
Special:MyPage/common.js use please use:
importScript('User:Titodutta/scripts/SearchHelper.js');
Writ Keeper created Google search script. The script adds several quick search options, see
screenshot, how it looks. Please comment or suggest if any other search option is needed. --
Titodutta (
talk) 09:29, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
Please consider commenting at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Aziz Bagh (2nd nomination). -- Doncram ( talk) 18:53, 3 February 2019 (UTC)
A proposal has been made to apply the equivalent of extended confirmed protection to any article related to conflicts between India and Pakistan. Interested editors are invited to comment on the proposal. Ivanvector ( Talk/ Edits) 15:52, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
In 2007, User:Sumanthk created a plenty of articles ( https://xtools.wmflabs.org/pages/en.wikipedia.org/Sumanthk) about places in Telangana (then Andhra Pradesh). There are more than 200 such articles. These are obviously notable articles, per WP:NGEO. But there is a problem with all these articles. For example, Kerameri; the lead sentence says "Kerameri or Kerimeri is a village and a Mandal in Adilabad district in the state of Telangana in India". This means that the village "Kerameri" and the mandal "Kerameri" have been clubbed into one article. The village and the mandal have the same name, but are not the same. A mandal consists of a group of village, whereas a village is just one village. So there should two different articles. Also this turns problematic while we look at the respective Wikidata item and links from other languages. In this case, Wikidata item: Kerameri (Q3430024), has interwiki links to English, Vietnamese, Nepali, Telugu, and Pampanga Wikipedias. The former two have articles as "village and mandal", whereas the latter three just say "mandal". This is confusing. So I propose to convert all such articles represent "mandals" i.e. removing village-related lines from the articles. I would like to hear more thoughts on this before making changes at mass. KCVelaga ( talk) 05:17, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
Is Tamil Nadu Vanniyar Public Properties Welfare Board a notable governmental department? How far down the bureaucratic line do we usually go? - Sitush ( talk) 08:27, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
Hi friends, the Wikipedia Reference Desk has received a query about the history of the location of the statue of Rafi Ahmed Kidwai in Delhi. If anyone can help, please answer at the Reference Desk. With thanks!! 70.67.193.176 ( talk) 16:10, 6 February 2019 (UTC)
Hello, some time ago we discussed fixing YuviPanda's assessment bar. With the support of IndicTech-Com and specially
User:Jayprakash12345, some changes are made and a temporary version of the fixed script may be seen at:
User:Titodutta/scripts/AssessmentBar.js.
I am not confident that the script is fixed, because I almost never used this script (or I don't remember). Anyone who remembers all the features of this script, please comment. perhaps
User:AshLin,
User:BPositive?--
Titodutta (
talk) 06:45, 24 January 2019 (UTC)
Ajf773 has deleted information about police station and fire station from the Baranagar page noting Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not#Wikipedia is not a directory.The point made was “every city has at least one police and fire station, what makes these ones so special”.I had undone the deletion with the argument, “There is a gulf of difference between the advanced countries and backward countries. Here administrative and civic facilities are limited and so are important. The information provided here is basic and minimum.” These have again been deleted. Drmies, an admin, deleted the information, “The headquarters of Ketugram II CD Block are located at Gangatikuri” from the Gangatikuri page with the comment “so?”. I have placed back the material with a note on the talk page of Gangatikuri, “CD block HQ … so? Well, CD blocks are large development administrative areas in the post-colonial era. The headquarters of each such area is an important centre where administrative offices and other facilities are located. In extensive agricultural areas, these small adiminstrative locations are in focus” It is still there. I have been adding content/ information about community development blocks, subdivision etc, with the focus mainly on rural areas. Recently, I have also started working on town/ village pages. I work mostly on pages related to Wet Bengal and the surrounding areas. With this NOT A DIRECTORY issue, hundreds of pages put up by me and others, will get affected. Pages with information about police stations, headquarters of community development blocks, probably even municipalities, other civic bodies, educational institutions and so on will get affected. Such deletions will make a mess of the pages. Please have a look at one of my more recent community development block page and a village page – Goalpokhar I and Kushmandi, Dakshin Dinajpur. These are different, in a long way, from what is published about the more developed countries. With all the push for standardisation and globalisation, I am doubtful about who will come from where and what will remain of such pages. Is it worth spending all the time and effort? I still have the heart to say, Cheers, - Chandan Guha ( talk) 01:27, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
Hello, |
I have listed this article at PR as I want any potential issue to be solved before I take it to FAC. I hope someone regularly monitoring this page will read this and post comments. -- Kailash29792 (talk) 06:59, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
◆◆Durganagar, and Laketown location is same details. But Laketown page wikipedia name is Laketown, Kolkata . Kindly see the page :- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Town,_Kolkata .So at this point if Laketown page main name is Laketown , Kolkata possible, so why can not possible for Durganagar page name as Durganagar, Kolkata ? ◆◆A new person name Jeet Dev remove previous Durganagar, Kolkata page Information. Today i again write previous page information of Durganagar, Kolkata. About 4 months ago of date 4 October 2018 time 8:23 the page information i put and you verified it. But recent 2 days a person name jeet dev remove the all previous page information which information is no need for this page as compare previous information. Today again jeet dev remove all previous page information so i again put previous page information because it is better from jeet dev information. So you Kindly take a action jeet dev which information is no good than previous information which edit 4 months ago. The previous 4 month's edit information is better than jeet dev information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AmitMondal1299 ( talk • contribs) 20:01, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Washim#Basim. Shhhnotsoloud ( talk) 08:44, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
Hello, I came across this user's contributions recently, and would like someone to take a look. Examples below:
I have left a message on his talk page and directed his attention to this discussion thread. — Nearly Headless Nick {c} 19:19, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
Hi all, at Uri: The Surgical Strike I've seen Azad Kashmir get changed a couple of times to Pakistan Occupied Kashmir. Yes, I'm aware this is a sensitive area, which is why I'm here to ask if there is an agreed-upon way to handle this, so as not to run afoul of ArbCom determinations. Thoughts? The Wikipedia article on the region points to Azad Kashmir, so that would seem to be the "preferred" designation, but feedback is appreciated. Thanks, Cyphoidbomb ( talk) 17:13, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
My personal observation is that most of the private engineering colleges (which have been mushrooming like anything in the last decade or so) does not get any significant coverage in more than 75-80% of cases. The same about secondary schools, roughly. Always almost; these articles attract a constant flux of promo-spam and it's difficult to distinguish between an encyclopedic article and a brochure.
I have thus nominated Ghanashyam Hemalata Institute of Technology and Management (and it's duplicate:- Ghanashyama Hemalata Institute of Technology and Management) for deletion over this AfD because I am unable to locate an iota of reliable coverage despite it's verifiable existence.
I will be grateful, if other members of this project let their views known here and/or over the AfD. About whether I was correct in my hypothesis that these colleges usually never manage to garner any non-advertorial significant coverage (and that it's not our inability to access regional sources; which's affecting the issue) and whether routine private colleges (which does not pass GNG in the most loosest of interpretations) need be deleted. And anything else. ∯WBG converse 15:26, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
All universities, colleges and schools, including high schools, middle schools, primary (elementary) schools, and schools that only provide a support to mainstream education must satisfy either this guideline (WP:ORG) or the general notability guideline, or both. No need to add emphasis anywhere. - The Gnome ( talk) 12:51, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
The article 2016 Uri attack has seen a flood of IP edits over the last few months that seem to have completely changed the meaning of parts of the article. At least half of these edits have to be vandalism, but I honestly have no idea which version of the article is the last good one, or which intermediate edits may be salvageable. Many edits and series of edits have been reverted, but I strongly suspect these reverts have left older vandalism untouched. I think the article could really use review, top to bottom, by someone familiar with this topic area. Thanks. Someguy1221 ( talk) 05:49, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#India/Pakistan. DBig Xrayᗙ 11:25, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
I have nominated this article about a place called Gaur Niwas in Dehradun for deletion.You are welcome to join the discussion. If someone can help me find references, that would be of great help.-- DreamLinker ( talk) 15:50, 3 March 2019 (UTC)
Hello WPI. I've just stumbled across recent edits to Punjabi script. At the moment, the article states that:
Punjabi (پن٘جابی) is a Perso-Arabic alphabet with eight new alphabets(ٻ ڄ ݙ ݢ ڳ ݨ ݪ ݢ) along with 39 urdu alphabets developed by Punjabi Language Acticists in Punjab, Pakistan to write the Punjabi language. It is generally written in the Nastaʿlīq calligraphic hand. Punjabi Script [1] is one of three scripts used for Punjabi, the others being Gurmukhi and Shahmukhi [2].
It is also used as the alphabet to write the Pothohari, Hindko and Saraiki Dialect. Punjabi script and Shahmukhi is written from right to left, while Gurmukhi is written from left to right..
It is also used as the alphabet to write the Pothohari, Hindko and Saraiki Dialect. Punjabi script and Shahmukhi is written from right to left, while Gurmukhi is written from left to right.
References
This article was originally created in 2011 by User:Kwamikagami as a redirect, most recently to Gurmukhi. Today new editor User:Punjab Post replaced the redirect with the article mentioned above. Is this notable? Not being a reader of Punjabi, I can find nothing about it online in English language WP:RS, and it seems to be WP:OR, or a low-notability project by the abovementioned "Punjabi language activists". The Hannover Uni reference doesn't seem to mention it. Is the script notable? Thanks for any assistance. Flapjacktastic ( talk) 14:24, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
Pathadippalam needs attention. Please see the concerns I expressed in the prod tag at the top of the article, and the TP discussion that began this morning. I am reluctant to move it to the correct spelling while there is an AfC with the correct spelling in draft space. Thank you. Atsme 📣 📧 15:58, 9 March 2019 (UTC)
Hello, we had a project called Indian collaboration of the Month. In this project we used to improve an India-related article every month. It is currently inactive. I think we can restart this initiative. Any suggestion/opinion? Regards. -- Titodutta ( talk) 19:12, 25 February 2019 (UTC)
I have nominated List of state and union territory capitals in India for featured list removal here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets the featured list criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks; editors may declare to "Keep" or "Delist" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Gotitbro ( talk) 15:43, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
CAC/PAC JF-17 Thunder ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs) was recently fully protected because of POV pushing an edit warring. The fight continues in the form of edit requests on the talk page. I am completely ignorant about anything having to do with the military of Pakistan and India other than hoping that they don't nuke each other, so I would really appreciate it if someone else would look at the page and evaluate the edit requests. Thanks! -- Guy Macon ( talk) 15:08, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
Is the creation of redirects of the type City, District okay ? << FR ( mobileUndo) 06:48, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
Where can I find the new version of the assessment bar? Thanks in advance AshLin ( talk) 08:42, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
Can someone please sort out the wikitext for the section above. The transclusion is defective & no edit button appears for the Discussion section.— Preceding unsigned comment added by AshLin ( talk • contribs) 14:40, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Americans#American expats in India . RightCowLeftCoast ( Moo) 01:42, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
Could someone from WP:INDIA take a look at Kashmir Life and assess it per WP:NMAG or WP:NME? The magazine does apper to exist, but it's been flag as unreferenced since February 2016 and there never have appeared to have been any citatons to reliable sources added since the article was created back in January 2015. -- Marchjuly ( talk) 05:09, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
I am deeply disturbed at India-POV pushing at a number of India-Pakistan conflict related pages. These are Indo-Pakistani War of 1965, in whose infobox it is being astoundingly claimed that the war ended in an Indian victory, on a basis of selectively adducing some sources, most of which are not exactly scholarly. The same is true of the page Indo-Pakistani wars and conflicts and a number of Kashmir-related pages. Since the number of Pakistani editors are considerably fewer now, it seems that the India-POV editors are getting away with highly unencyclopedic edits. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 04:02, 25 March 2019 (UTC)
I have boldly redirected a newly created Chowkidar Chor Hai, which was clearly violating WP:BLP and was written in a POV tone. Similar POV content can be also seen at Rahul Gandhi#Indian general election, 2019.
Slogans are non-notable and serve no purpose since Wikipedia is not a soapboax. @ Sitush and Utcursch: take a glance. 139.167.161.20 ( talk) 18:09, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
A new user has created few poorly sourced articles related to Hinduism: [3]. So someone with the relevant knowledge should have a look at them. - NitinMlk ( talk) 22:59, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
India City Competitiveness Index needs deletion. In the whole article there is no mention of the index, its definition or a single reference. Plus I could not locate any meaningful refrence (through shallow googling). Comments please? AshLin ( talk) 06:08, 2 April 2019 (UTC)
In general, there are 5-6 writing system for punjabi language and two major are Shahmukhi and Gurmukhi. Gurmukhi is used in india while shahmukhi in pakistan. Shahmukhi can write only majhi/lahori dialect, therefore for the unity of all dialects of Punjabi, in pakistan a new script was developed and the name of script is Punjabi/punjabi script. More info is in link >> https://www.omniglot.com/conscripts/punjabi.htm Thats why i created the page, Punjabi Script but wikipdia members reverted and asked me for discussion. So thats why i am telling details here. I request wikipedia administrators to publish the page Punjabi scipt or Punjabi Alphabets which will explain this script. still if you have any question then let me know — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rana Zubair Punjabi ( talk • contribs) 07:04, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
I recently happened upon the Narendra Modi page. Its lead has the curious verbal subterfuge: "He left home after graduating from school, partly because of an arranged marriage which he rejected. Modi travelled around India for two years and visited a number of religious centres ..." This is presumably summarizing a slightly longer verbal sleight-of-hand from his early childhood section, which states, "Engaged while still ( sic) a child to Jashodaben, a girl from a family who (sic) lived close by, Modi rejected the (sic) arranged marriage at the same time he graduated from high school. [1] The resulting familial tensions contributed to his decision to leave home in 1967. [2]" Let us for a moment forget what the "biography," which is cited, says, but what does "rejection of an arranged marriage" mean? How is it different from the more common form of abandonment, or desertion, practised in relatively large numbers by Hindu men in small-town and rural India? He is, after all, legally married to the lady, the infobox says it. The Wikipedia lead and introduction section seem to be implying that this one was somehow more principled. We can't say that this is because the biography says so, because there are many high-quality sources, e.g. a New York Times article written by a Pulitzer prize winner, Ellen Barry, as well as many others in the Guardian, Washington Post, Financial Times, CNN, The Hindu that simply state: he was married in 1968, abandoned his marriage, and thereafter did not acknowledge his marital status publicly until Spring of 2014. Surely there is more NPOV language than what is currently in the article. Wikipedia is written for an international audience. Most global readers will not be able to parse "rejecting a marriage," let alone what it means to do so for 45 years. Pinging @ Vanamonde93:. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 12:29, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
References
"Some time during his childhood, a form of traditional betrothal with a girl, and leading to eventual marriage, was arranged for him by his family. In 1968, when he was 18, they were married, however, soon thereafter, he, but not her, abandoned the further obligations implicit in this arrangement. Mr Modi had no further contact with the young woman, Jashodaben Chimanlal. For the next 45 years he denied in reliably recorded public statements that he was married. However, in Spring 2014, before the national elections that swept him to power, Mr Modi affirmed in a sworn affidavit that he was indeed married and his spouse was indeed Ms Chimanlal." There are plenty reliable citations for these:
Some references relevant to Mr Modi's marriage.
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Fowler&fowler
«Talk» 03:16, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
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@ Gazoth: OK, so we'll change it to:
"During his childhood, as a part of a custom traditional to his caste, his family arranged a betrothal to a girl, Jashodaben Chimanlal. The two were married when he was a teenager. Sometime thereafter, he abandoned the further obligations implicit in the custom, such as cohabitation, and the couple went on to lead separate lives, neither marrying again, the marriage itself remaining unmentioned in Mr Modi's public pronouncements for the next 45 years. However, in April 2014, shortly before the national elections that swept him to power, Mr Modi affirmed in a sworn affidavit that he was married and his spouse was Ms Chimanlal. The couple has remained married, but estranged."
How does that sound? I would imagine this is fairly NPOV and in resonance with the sources listed by you. This is for the Early Life section, and would need to be summarized further for the lead. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 10:34, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
A new Newsletter directory has been created to replace the old, out-of-date one. If your WikiProject and its taskforces have newsletters (even inactive ones), or if you know of a missing newsletter (including from sister projects like WikiSpecies), please include it in the directory! The template can be a bit tricky, so if you need help, just post the newsletter on the template's talk page and someone will add it for you.
I'm afraid some people are promoting strange POV in a number of clothing related pages: Kurta, Shalwar kameez, Muslin, History of clothing in (sic) the Indian subcontinent and probably quite a few others, citing obscure references that make the case that kurta and shalwar are depicted in the Ajanta caves, ... I am dismayed to see these articles in much worse shape than they were ten years ago. I have intervened at Kurta, and will do so in Shalwar kameez, but I don't want to waste more time haggling about trifles. Could some good samaritans or admins please step in and stem the rot? Best regard, Fowler&fowler «Talk» 22:40, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
Interesting discussion all. However, that Goa should still be described as being in ‘Southwestern India’ is problematic for a number of reasons.
Firstly, if you go through the history of the page you will see the change from ‘Western’ to ‘southwestern’ was done by a vandal who referenced pig farming as their source material.
Secondly, to a casual reader, for whom Wikipedia is intended, Goa may be inferred to be a South Indian State. It is not and therefore the current description is misleading.
Goa is neither linguistically not politically a South Indian State. Users navigating the North Indian and South Indian pages (from this perspective) would be confused. Additionally, it also ignores Goa’s recent history and it almost being merged with Maharashtra (which is not in South India).
Thirdly, the simplest answer is the right answer. The above conversation seems to ignore the fact that Goa was described as being in Western India rather than southwestern India for a number of years. Given that the change was done by a vandal, the simplest answer would be to revert to the original.
I propose reverting to Goa being in Western India. Goingoan ( talk) 13:23, 9 February 2020 (UTC)
I'm afraid some people are promoting strange POV in a number of clothing related pages: Kurta, Shalwar kameez, Muslin, History of clothing in (sic) the Indian subcontinent and probably quite a few others, citing obscure references that make the case that kurta and shalwar are depicted in the Ajanta caves, ... I am dismayed to see these articles in much worse shape than they were ten years ago. I have intervened at Kurta, and will do so in Shalwar kameez, but I don't want to waste more time haggling about trifles. Could some good samaritans or admins please step in and stem the rot? Best regard, Fowler&fowler «Talk» 22:40, 13 April 2019 (UTC)
Recently, content supported by reliable Indian Government sources have been deleted from Indian state articles' leads, for example
this. The editor , who removed the contents argued that the "Government Definitions" shouldn't be used in "Geographic Places" and he seems to only care about what's written in
Oxford Dictionaries and
Encyclopedia Britannica. Point is, Indian states are political entities not geographical places, so Indian govt sources from institutes like
Ministry of Home Affairs (India),
Ministry of Culture (India) and
Ministry of Minority Affairs should be mentioned there as well for the sake of
WP:NPOV. Moreover, states are not bound within a single geographical region either. States like Maharashtra and Uttar Pradesh are well into central India. Text like "Uttar Pradesh is in northern India" is just as confusing when you find its neighbouring state Bihar "is a state in eastern India"
I agree that mentioning multiple regions in the opening sentence may be confusing but
Germany has it,
Turkey has it and
Spain also mentions Western and Southern Europe in the lede. And none of these articles seem to cite Britannica, etc. not to mention that Britannica is not considered that much reliable as per
this. And this can be taken care of by mentioning which govt. sources are grouping the states within which zone in the latter part of the lede. -
Fylindfotberserk (
talk) 09:37, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
Discussion from GotitBro's
talkpage
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Why are you deleting reliable govt. sourced content from articles like Uttar Pradesh and Bihar? Different Indian Govt. sources group states into different regions that need to be highlighted in the article. The regional terms like North India or East India are not mentioned in the article bodies either. If you want, different govt. definitions can be added in the article body and then highlighted in the lead. Check Germany which mentions it being part of "Central and Western Europe". Lead fixation can be corrected as well. - Fylindfotberserk ( talk) 07:10, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
The
WP:LEAD has to be straightforward and uncomplicated, by mentioning multiple zones/regions add on top of that mentioning govt. sources is the opposite of that. Moreover the govt. zones shouldn't be used to describe the location of the states especially when their location is widely described otherwise [also the government zones are for administrative purposes which do not consider the situation of places]. Britannica isn't the only source but it is definitely a guideline and has been used as the basis of a lot of articles on Wikipedia. What you're suggesting is just confusing and simply unencyclopedic.
Gotitbro (
talk) 09:46, 19 March 2019 (UTC)
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@ Abecedare: Thanks and I agree that refbombing is a part of POV pushing but since I'm inclusionist by nature, I typically do not delete relevant sources but try to balance it out by deleting overlinks and putting sources where it is due till we reach a consensus like in this case.
@
BelgaumGoan: Sorry I forgot to invite you to this discussion. Anyway, we have agreed to neither include each and every geo-political definition nor to put a specific definition especially for larger states, but to have generalized description in the opening sentence, I believe this :- "..is a state in the western peninsular region of India occupying a substantial portion of the Deccan plateau."
encompasses the "western,central and southern" thing. -
Fylindfotberserk (
talk) 10:51, 2 April 2019 (UTC)
..is a state in the western peninsular region of India occupying a substantial portion of the Deccan plateau."you didn't say maharashtra also expands to part of central India. For example,Vidharbha is large part of maharashtra similar to Madhya pradesh and it was once considered Central Provinces. BelgaumGoan ( talk) 13:39, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
Uttar Pradesh, the most populous and fourth largest state of India. It lies in the north-central part of the country.. According to some editors here, Britannica is a guideline to be followed. On a similar note tell me by what tectonic shift in the English language (or is it German), the Germany article lede mentions it to be
... a country in Central and Western Europe? Why not any specific location? Pinging @ Abecedare: - Fylindfotberserk ( talk) 18:12, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
@ Fylindfotberserk: I should have explained more. The problem is that the term "north central" is not always well-defined. Often it means situated centrally (ie in the lateral center) and to the north. Thus North Central American English is the same as Upper Midwestern English spoken in such states at Minnesota, Michigan, North and South Dakota, but these are hardly in the vertical center of the US. In the US Census map, File:Census_Regions_and_Division_of_the_United_States.svg Minnesota is in North Central, and Louisiana in South Central, though neither is in the vertical center. In this way of thinking, Kashmir would be in north central India. In other words, you are attempting to make a science of something which is at best an art. Go with the least common denominator, one that is unambiguously understood. Northern India is easily understood. Later in the article, one can get into the specifics. But the lead of an article, especially the lead sentence is not where you want to get too specific. Fowler&fowler «Talk» 04:55, 10 April 2019 (UTC)
There is an RfC on whether all Wikipedia categories should use the spelling "organization" (regardless of the respective country) taking place here. Number 5 7 19:27, 18 April 2019 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Carnatic music is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Carnatic music until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America 1000 06:30, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Indore is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Indore until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America 1000 07:10, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
Please give your input on changing History of domes in South Asia to History of Indo-Islamic domes on Talk:History of domes in South Asia#Change name to History of Indo-Islamic domes. Thank you! ( Highpeaks35 ( talk) 01:36, 25 April 2019 (UTC))
Can someone cleanup all links under Malabar#India? Many Wikipedians are confused on which articles to edit? Some edit the wrong Malabar article and cause confusion on what the article as a whole is talking about. Malabar articles need to be reviewed and here needs to be wider consensus on the topics of Malabar in India. I hope for cleanup relating to these articles so readers are not confused. Manabimasu ( talk) 03:00, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
I'd like to invite members of this project to familiarise themselves with MOS:TV and {{ Infobox television}}. Category:Pages using infobox television with unknown parameters is a category that I keep on my watchlist and it is predominantly populated by Indian TV program articles. Having to fix 5 or more articles each day is not an unusual task for me and most of the articles that I have to repair reveal multiple errors throughout the article. More often than not, these are simple errors demonstrating a basic non-compliance with MOS:TV but especially the infobox instructions. Other errors include compliance MOS:CAPS, MOS:BOLD etc and all are avoidable by someone whop has taken the time to read the instructions. Your assistance in this matter is greatly appreciated. -- AussieLegend ( ✉) 09:51, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
Hello,
It gives us great pleasure to inform that the Train-the-Trainer (TTT) 2019 programme organised by CIS-A2K is going to be held from 31 May, 1 & 2 June 2019.
What is TTT?
Train the Trainer or TTT is a residential training program. The program attempts to groom leadership skills among the Indian Wikimedia community members. Earlier TTT has been conducted in 2013, 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2018.
Who should apply?
Please learn more about this program and apply to participate or encourage the deserving candidates from your community to do so. Regards. -- Tito (CIS-A2K), sent using MediaWiki message delivery ( talk) 05:07, 26 April 2019 (UTC)
I've deleted earlier versions twice as pure copyvio. I've had to delete some of this for the same reason. I've posted some of my concerns to Talk:Deo Sun Temple but it still needs a lot of work. Eg the lead, which I haven't touched:
" Deo Sun Temple, Devark Temple, Deo Surya Mandir is a 8th-century CE sun temple at Deo about 10 kilometres southeast from Aurangabad district, Bihar [1] [2] on the coastline of Bihar, India. [3] The Times of India News & Scientist say that The temple is Built by Chandravanshi King but some news say that This temple is built by God Vishvakarman in one night. [4] [5] So no proof of who made and how. Deo is the place of historical importance where tourist can find ruins of ancient Deo Fort mainly built in the era of the king Raja Jagannath Singh. Inscriptions show that in the year 2017, the construction period of this mythological temple has completed one hundred fifty thousand seventeen years. [5] sun temple at Deo is one of Bihars top famous temples and attracts in holl times. [6]"
The temple definitely needs an article and deserves something much better than this. It even has a section heading "cculpture". Doug Weller talk 15:07, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
References
jagran.com
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).auto
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Hi all, recently I've encountered a problematic user who was adding a ton of poorly conceived honorifics to various biographical folk, and then he did weird stuff like move "MGR Memorial" to "Bharat Ratna Puratchi Thalaivar Dr.MGR and Puratchi Thalaivi Amma Selvi J Jayalalithaa Memorial" as if anyone would ever type that into a search engine. (See this) Another thing he did was move Anna Memorial to Perarignar Anna Memorial and I have since moved it back per WP:COMMONNAME, although I'd like to see if anyone wants to educate me on whether that was a good idea or not. (There was only one Google News hit for the longer term, whereas the simpler Anna Memorial was used far more often.) Also, what does "Perarignar" mean? Thanks, Cyphoidbomb ( talk) 15:29, 28 April 2019 (UTC)
Please participate in a Request for Comments on the primary title of this language. Robert McClenon ( talk) 03:53, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
Anyone familiar with Korakkar? There have been some contributions since my last edit there that have been going back and forth a bit and I'm not sure what is verified and what is not. - Sitush ( talk) 11:13, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
Mains electricity describes what this is called in the US, UK, and Canada, but not India. It would be nice if folks more familiar with Indian English could add a note explaining that. I'm also interested to know if there's a single term that would be intelligible globally, as "mains electricity" is apparently unfamiliar to many Americans. So if it's known by more than one term in Indian English, that would be very helpful to know. Thanks! -- Beland ( talk) 01:11, 6 May 2019 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Newar is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Newar until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America 1000 10:15, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
Would request any admin active here to check the article on Guha (surname), and protect the same. This article has been a subject of persistent vandalism by a particular user, as evident from its Revision History, and that too in spite of discussions on the article's talk page as well as issuing warning on the user's talk page. Thanks. Ekdalian ( talk) 06:51, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
Parkala Massacre, an article that you or your project may be interested in, has been nominated for a community good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. ∯WBG converse 06:17, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
Apologies for writing in English, please consider translating
Greetings from CIS-A2K,
The Wikimedia Education SAARC conference will take place on 20-22 June 2019. Wikimedians from Indian, Sri Lanka, Bhutan, Nepal, Bangladesh and Afghanistan can apply for the scholarship. This event will take place at Christ University, Bangalore.
Who should apply?
Please know more about this program and apply to participate or encourage the deserving candidates from your community to do so. Regards. Ananth (CIS-A2K) using MediaWiki message delivery ( talk) 13:54, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
Hi,
Can someone help render the accurate translation for the following line from Maduraikkanchi (line 144) ?
தென் பரதவர் போ ரேறே
The context is:
நற் கொற்கை யோர்நசைப் பொருந
செற்ற தெவ்வர் கலங்கத் தலைச்சென்று
அஞ்சுவரத் தட்கும் அணங்குடைத் துப்பிற் . . .140
கோழூ உன்குறைக் கொழு வல்சிப்
புலவு விற் பொலி கூவை
ஒன்று மொழி ஒலி யிருப்பில்
தென் பரதவர் போ ரேறே
The full poem can be accessed at https://www.projectmadurai.org/pm_etexts/utf8/pmuni0071.html
Thanks, Nittawinoda ( talk) 20:04, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
Hi,
I posted a question about capitalization in the names of Indian subdivisions at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (geographic names) that may be of interest to people in this project. Regards, Tdslk ( talk) 21:18, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Karnataka is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Karnataka until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America 1000 04:31, 14 May 2019 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Goa is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Goa until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America 1000 04:34, 14 May 2019 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Urdu is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Urdu until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America 1000 06:42, 14 May 2019 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Ayyavazhi is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Ayyavazhi until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America 1000 06:24, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
Hi all. With my sysop spectacles on, I can see that no article myneta, myneta.in or myneta.info has ever been created. It nevertheless is extensively used as a reference in Indian politics articles. Is this website a reliable source for biographies of Indian politicians? Pete AU aka -- Shirt58 ( talk) 13:28, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
Another editor has created the article Purje Song. Would someone familiar with Punjabi music please look at the article and consider whether the article should be kept. Eastmain ( talk • contribs) 03:30, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
I would appreciate some thoughts at Talk:Peint State. - Sitush ( talk) 05:25, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
This bull-shitty POV page is apparently linked from hundreds, if not thousands, of articles [8]. Please watch list it and help clean it up. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 10:33, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
There is a discussion on the reliability of Osianama ( osianama.com) on the reliable sources noticeboard. If you're interested, please participate at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard § Kalpana Mohan Page. — Newslinger talk 08:53, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
There is a discussion on the reliability of PTC Punjabi on the reliable sources noticeboard. If you're interested, please participate at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard § PTCPunjabi. — Newslinger talk 08:58, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
Does each village really have an elected sarpanch? I'm seeing it in every village article that I edit, it is rarely sourced and my mind boggles sometimes, eg: one such village has 3 houses and 16 people. - Sitush ( talk) 16:20, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
So, a village might be un-inhabited and covered under a major gram panchayat may not have a sarpanch.-- Vin09 (talk) 03:04, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
So the only way to verify the articles you mention is to pull up the latest district census handbook for the district that the village is a part ofbut in the Udaipur example you gave I cannot see where the information lies. Sure, I can see p 13 and its summary but, for example, Mavli has 42 Gram Panchayat covering 179 villages, and the pages around pp 85 list the villages (I presume these are Revenue Villages) in Mavli CD Block but I can't see any grouping by Gram Panchayat anywhere. I'm doing something wrong, obviously. Sorry for being a pain: this has always confused me. - Sitush ( talk) 05:20, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
Will each place named on those pages (below the heading rows) have a sarpanch?No, it will not. In the case of the earlier example of Mavli tehsil, one would first verify the village name in DCHB (say, the first village under Mavli, 'Neta ka Gurha'), then go to a source like the district's official website which shows that Neta ka Gurha is NOT a panchayat. Therefore, Neta ka Gurha would NOT have a sarpanch. Deccantrap ( talk) 05:50, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
There are a few villages, which are not in census doc, I think they are not census villages, might be a part of revenue village or a small hamlet. Gram panchayats will have a sarpanch. As User:Deccantrap said, need to check other sources for example: villages (Guntur district, AP) and gram panchayat sarpanchs (Guntur district, AP). -- Vin09 (talk) 05:54, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
Woah, I've found the gram panchayat listing in the 2001 census - p 1296 here - showing which villages are under which GP. Of course, that may have changed by 2011 but it does imply that the info probably exists somewhere in the 2011 documents also. - Sitush ( talk) 06:52, 22 May 2019 (UTC)
In an effort to resolve years-long content disputes, there are currently a few requests for comments active at Kamarupi Prakrit and Kamrupi dialect. It would be helpful if some fresh eyes could take a look and comment. Editors who are knowledgeable about or interested in linguistics and/or history of Assam may be particularly well-positioned to contribute. Here is the current list of discussions:
Thanks. Abecedare ( talk) 21:14, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
ILM Academy needs a rewrite. Supposedly there are enough reliable sources for an article as The Hindu covered it, but it needs to be written in the Wikipedia style. WhisperToMe ( talk) 02:00, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Malayalam cinema is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Malayalam cinema until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America 1000 12:02, 25 May 2019 (UTC)
Any thoughts on how to title articles for villages in Mawal taluka that share similar names? We've got Brahman Wadi and Brahmanwadi but it turns out that there are two villages in Mawal with the latter name, per the 2011 census. I know how we distinguish when villages share the same name but are in different talukas but this situation is a new one for me. - Sitush ( talk) 12:06, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
<village name>, <mandal/tehsil/taluka name>-- Vin09 (talk) 06:04, 24 May 2019 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Thiruvananthapuram is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Thiruvananthapuram until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America 1000 02:45, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Kollam is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Kollam until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America 1000 02:47, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
A discussion is taking place as to whether Portal:Udaipur is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The page will be discussed at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Udaipur until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the page during the discussion, including to improve the page to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the deletion notice from the top of the page. North America 1000 02:50, 30 May 2019 (UTC)
Hello, I would like to inform the project of an article that cites zero sources: Defence Avionics Research Establishment. starship .paint ( talk) 02:52, 30 May 2019 (UTC)