 | Points of interest related to
Olympics on Wikipedia: Portal – Category – WikiProject – Alerts – Deletions – Stubs – Assessment |
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Archived discussions (starting from September 2007) may be found at:| watch |
Tyler Lawlor
- Tyler Lawlor ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
WP:BLP of a sports figure, not
properly sourced as passing inclusion criteria for sportspeople. To be fair, at the time this was first created, Wikipedia had a consensus that simple presence at the Olympics was an automatic inclusion lock regardless of medal placement or sourcing issues -- but that's long since been deprecated, and a non-medalist now has to be shown to pass
WP:GNG on their sourceability.
But a
WP:BEFORE search turned up very little that could be used to salvage the article: apart from Olympic results reporting itself, I largely just get glancing namechecks of his existence and local high-school-athlete coverage rather than coverage that's substantively about him in any notability-building sense. I've further been completely unable to verify this article's claim that he was born in
Sudbury — even the database entry present here as the article's sole source fails to claim that, and his local high-school-athlete coverage is found in
Ottawa, not Sudbury. (And yes, I get that it's possible for people to be born in one place and then move to another, but we still need to be able to
verify claims about a person's birthplace.)
Finishing ninth in an Olympic event just isn't "inherently" notable enough anymore to exempt him from ever having to have more reliable source coverage than I've been able to find.
Bearcat (
talk) 19:03, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople and Canada. Bearcat ( talk) 19:03, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Olympics-related deletion discussions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 19:50, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: Besides raising chickens in his backyard [1] -and it might not even be this person- nothing for notability. Aylmer is near Ottawa. Oaktree b ( talk) 20:03, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- Keep. @ Oaktree b and Bearcat: Passes GNG, see coverage at newspapers.com: Ottawa Citizen feature ( p2), more Ottawa Citizen, Harbor City Star, and The Standard. BeanieFan11 ( talk) 20:25, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- The Ottawa Citizen is the local hometown coverage I mentioned in my nomination statement, the St. Cat's Standard is just a short blurb that nominally verifies a fact but is not long enough to imbue said fact with any notability points, and the Harbour City Star hit is literally just an advertorial to sell aquatic sport clothing that Tyler Lawlor is modelling, not an article about Tyler Lawlor doing anything noteworthy. So the Ottawa Citizen is still all we've actually got for GNG-worthy coverage, and that's still "local guy" coverage in his hometown newspaper (i.e. not enough if it's all he's got).
Bearcat (
talk) 20:48, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- The Ottawa Citizen is one of the largest newspapers in Canada, and as such should be given the full weight of a normal significant source (esp. considering that locality of coverage is irrelevant). The Harbour City Star piece: yes, it is about a business of Lawlor's, but it seems to be written by a valid journalist by a valid company (Southam Newspapers, owned by
Postmedia Network) – it seems to have enough details on him IMO to be categorized as covering him "
directly and in detail, so that no original research is needed to extract the content" – as far as I'm aware a source does not need to cover someone for them doing something one subjectively things is "noteworthy" to be considered significant.
BeanieFan11 (
talk) 21:07, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- Nobody dismissed the Ottawa Citizen on size grounds, but all newspapers can still cover local residents in local-interest contexts that don't necessarily clinch nationalized or internationalized notability in and of themselves for a person who has virtually nothing wider than just their hometown. For instance, a restaurant owner in Byward Market is not going to clear GNG just because a restaurant critic reviewed his restaurant in the Citizen, a local artist winning a local arts award from the SAW Gallery isn't going to clear NARTIST standards on that basis alone, and on and so forth. Even The New York Times features coverage of local people in local-interest contexts that don't establish permanent national or international notability all by themselves just because their local coverage came from The New York Times instead of the Palookaville Herald, because GNG does take into account the context of what the person is getting covered for and not just the raw number of hits that exist. Bearcat ( talk) 01:57, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
- The Ottawa Citizen is one of the largest newspapers in Canada, and as such should be given the full weight of a normal significant source (esp. considering that locality of coverage is irrelevant). The Harbour City Star piece: yes, it is about a business of Lawlor's, but it seems to be written by a valid journalist by a valid company (Southam Newspapers, owned by
Postmedia Network) – it seems to have enough details on him IMO to be categorized as covering him "
directly and in detail, so that no original research is needed to extract the content" – as far as I'm aware a source does not need to cover someone for them doing something one subjectively things is "noteworthy" to be considered significant.
BeanieFan11 (
talk) 21:07, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- The Ottawa Citizen is the local hometown coverage I mentioned in my nomination statement, the St. Cat's Standard is just a short blurb that nominally verifies a fact but is not long enough to imbue said fact with any notability points, and the Harbour City Star hit is literally just an advertorial to sell aquatic sport clothing that Tyler Lawlor is modelling, not an article about Tyler Lawlor doing anything noteworthy. So the Ottawa Citizen is still all we've actually got for GNG-worthy coverage, and that's still "local guy" coverage in his hometown newspaper (i.e. not enough if it's all he's got).
Bearcat (
talk) 20:48, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- Keep Per BeanieFan11. Themanwithnowifi ( talk) 06:56, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
Andras de Lisocky
- Andras de Lisocky ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Fails WP:NATHLETE, WP:GNG. Only source included is a WP:TRIVIALMENTION Cocobb8 (💬 talk • ✏️ contribs) 14:30, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Cocobb8 (💬 talk • ✏️ contribs) 14:30, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Olympics and Colombia. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 16:32, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- Keep, I think WP:NATHLETE is not the appropriate policy because de Lisocky is not a track and field sportsman, road racer, or cross country runner. De Lisocky is a gold medalist at a major international competition, so I do believe that we can be confident that contemporary coverage must exist. Finding those newspapers / other sources may be difficult, but we have to at least put in an effort. -- Habst ( talk) 13:22, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Desertarun ( talk) 15:40, 19 April 2024 (UTC)Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Shadow311 ( talk) 15:56, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment. The Bolivarian Games is not a major international competition. It is a smaller event with 6 participating countries. The Pan American Games would be the major competition in this case. Geschichte ( talk) 17:36, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
Foday Sillah
- Foday Sillah ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
The title and status he has earned are not encyclopedic. Redivy ( talk) 21:58, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople and Sport of athletics. Redivy ( talk) 21:58, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- It is inappropriate to call one of the best athletes from an African nation as "not encyclopedic"; whether we can find the coverage to demonstrate notability, that will be another story. BeanieFan11 ( talk) 23:59, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Olympics and Sierra Leone. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 00:06, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: I don't see coverage about a person with this name, a few hits on a school in The Gambia with this name. Happy to revisit if others can turn up sourcing. Oaktree b ( talk) 00:29, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment - nominator needs to familiarize themselves with WP:NOTENCYCLOPEDIC. Low effort nominations like this are going to be thrown out whether the subject is notable or not. Sergecross73 msg me 00:32, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- Keep based on Sergecross73's comment,
Low effort nominations like this are going to be thrown out whether the subject is notable or not
. I was able to find a lot of verifiable information about this person that was not mentioned at all in the nominated article or nomination statement, including his exploits at the World U20 championships where he was the highest-placing male Sierra Leonean athlete ever, he was actually a two-time Olympian and not just at the 1992 Olympics, and he has a still-standing national record at 200 metres. Finding contemporary African news reports from this period is difficult, but I believe there is enough evidence here to know that further coverage exists. -- Habst ( talk) 17:37, 15 April 2024 (UTC) - Comment. The information can often, as well as in this case, be found via What Links Here. It still needs non-database sources Geschichte ( talk) 06:55, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- FWIW I don't think anyone, besides maybe some people who are already editors, looks up people without articles here and then finds and clicks "what links here" to find information about them. A standalone article is much more beneficial to readers, as that way we get both the bare information one would get from a table-link-mention and plenty of other interesting, additional details explained with context. BeanieFan11 ( talk) 15:20, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- @
Geschichte, thanks for bringing this up. Not all of the information could be found via What Links Here, for example the fact that Sillah's World U20 performance was the best by any Sierra Leonean. Also, if the article were to be deleted, the standard practice is then that any links to the article would be un-linked per
WP:REDLINK (
"Red links should not be made to articles deleted because the topic was judged unencyclopedic or lacking notability"
), meaning that Special:WhatLinksHere would be useless (text searches are not reliable because they could include people with the same name) and much of this structured data would essentially be lost to history. -- Habst ( talk) 17:05, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- @ BeanieFan11 My point was about using What Links Here for nominators (and other editors). The reason why Lugnuts' articles were so horrible, was that they typically mention competing in a single Olympic event, where the athlete's career often had much more longevity. Geschichte ( talk) 20:35, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Ordinarily, I'd close this AFD as a procedural Keep due to the lack of a valid deletion rationale but we do have an opinion to Delete this article so I'm relisting to see if editors can come up with additional sourcing to demonstrate that this subject is "encyclopedic".
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:04, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
- Strong Keep, as the article stands today it seems enough for the article to not be deleted. Themanwithnowifi ( talk) 15:15, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment. The nomination statement notwithstanding, not a single source with
significant coverage has been located. Sillah wasn't that high-ranking as an athlete that we can jettison the demand for sources because we think
WP:ITSINTERESTING.
Geschichte (
talk) 20:35, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- @
Geschichte,
there is no deadline for Wikipedia. I believe the info we know about Sillah is conclusive that coverage must exist of him based on his accomplishments making him the best in his country, but it's a matter of having access to the African sources from the 90s that would have covered him. Scans of these may become available in 1, 10, or 20 years – that's why
WP:NEXISTS is a policy, to allow for time to get the sources. But saying to drafty in this case is essentially saying to delete the article in 6 months, because most drafts are abandoned. What do you think? --
Habst (
talk) 20:44, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- Sorry, I was responding to an older version of the reply that was a draftify vote. It was edited to Comment after I started writing my reply. --
Habst (
talk) 22:14, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- Habst, I think there is a good reason why the rule about coverage was added. The days when articles could be built solely on databases and primary sources are over, we have to face that.
Geschichte (
talk) 07:48, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- @
Geschichte, thank you, which rule are you referring to? I am open to deleting this and any other page based on a rule, but I just can't see what is being violated. I've edited Wikipedia both before and after
WP:NSPORTS2022, and it does not invalidate
WP:NEXIST. Respectfully, --
Habst (
talk) 10:09, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- NEXIST = grasping at straws. You personally think there are lots of significant coverage about this and that person, but that doesn't make it true and how likely it is varies a lot. For a person like Nikolay Antonov, it was overwhelmingly likely, but here - with the highlights being an U20 performance and a slow indoor record - it is nowhere near as likely.
Geschichte (
talk) 08:03, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- @ Geschichte, thanks for your perspective because I think the challenge is important. NEXIST isn't grasping at straws; the idea that we can know that coverage exists based on depth of accomplishments is the entire basis of subject-specific notability guidelines existing. Yes, it was used successfully on Nikolay Atanasov, but it has also been used successfully in other cases such as Abdou Manzo, understanding that Sillah's 200m record (1069 pts) is actually better than Manzo's record (924 pts).
- Also, I think that the subject is being sold short on likeliness of coverage. Sillah was, at a time, the best sprinter in Sierra Leone, a country of 8 million people. In order to be selected for all these international teams, he had to have won some sort of national championship or proven himself on the national level. The likelihood that there is no contemporary coverage of this person existing in the world is, in my opinion, impossible. -- Habst ( talk) 13:18, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- NEXIST = grasping at straws. You personally think there are lots of significant coverage about this and that person, but that doesn't make it true and how likely it is varies a lot. For a person like Nikolay Antonov, it was overwhelmingly likely, but here - with the highlights being an U20 performance and a slow indoor record - it is nowhere near as likely.
Geschichte (
talk) 08:03, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- @
Geschichte, thank you, which rule are you referring to? I am open to deleting this and any other page based on a rule, but I just can't see what is being violated. I've edited Wikipedia both before and after
WP:NSPORTS2022, and it does not invalidate
WP:NEXIST. Respectfully, --
Habst (
talk) 10:09, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Habst, I think there is a good reason why the rule about coverage was added. The days when articles could be built solely on databases and primary sources are over, we have to face that.
Geschichte (
talk) 07:48, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Sorry, I was responding to an older version of the reply that was a draftify vote. It was edited to Comment after I started writing my reply. --
Habst (
talk) 22:14, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- @
Geschichte,
there is no deadline for Wikipedia. I believe the info we know about Sillah is conclusive that coverage must exist of him based on his accomplishments making him the best in his country, but it's a matter of having access to the African sources from the 90s that would have covered him. Scans of these may become available in 1, 10, or 20 years – that's why
WP:NEXISTS is a policy, to allow for time to get the sources. But saying to drafty in this case is essentially saying to delete the article in 6 months, because most drafts are abandoned. What do you think? --
Habst (
talk) 20:44, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla Ohhhhhh, no! 05:03, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
| Points of interest related to
Olympics on Wikipedia: Portal – Category – WikiProject – Alerts – Deletions – Stubs – Assessment |
This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to Olympics. It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting. Anyone can help maintain the list on this page.
- Adding a new AfD discussion
- Adding an AfD to this page does not add it to the main page at
WP:AFD. Similarly, removing an AfD from this page does not remove it from the main page at
WP:AFD. If you want to nominate an article for deletion, go through the process on that page before adding it to this page. To add a discussion to this page, follow these steps:
- Edit this page and add {{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/PageName}} to the top of the list. Replace "PageName" with the relevant article name, i.e. the one on the existing AFD discussion. Also, indicate the title of the article in the edit summary as it is particularly helpful to add a link to the article in the edit summary. When you save the page, the discussion will automatically appear.
- You should also tag the AfD by adding {{subst:delsort|Olympics|~~~~}} to it, which will inform editors that it has been listed here. You may place this tag above or below the nomination statement or at the end of the discussion thread.
- Note that there are a few scripts and tools that can make this easier.
- Removing a closed AfD discussion
- Closed AfD discussions are automatically removed by a bot.
- Other types of discussions
- You can also add and remove links to other discussions ( prod, CfD, TfD etc.) related to Olympics.
- Further information
- For further information see Wikipedia's deletion policy and WP:AfD for general information about Articles for Deletion, including a list of article deletions sorted by day of nomination.
This list is also part of the larger list of deletion debates related to Sports.
Archived discussions (starting from September 2007) may be found at:| watch |
Tyler Lawlor
- Tyler Lawlor ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
WP:BLP of a sports figure, not
properly sourced as passing inclusion criteria for sportspeople. To be fair, at the time this was first created, Wikipedia had a consensus that simple presence at the Olympics was an automatic inclusion lock regardless of medal placement or sourcing issues -- but that's long since been deprecated, and a non-medalist now has to be shown to pass
WP:GNG on their sourceability.
But a
WP:BEFORE search turned up very little that could be used to salvage the article: apart from Olympic results reporting itself, I largely just get glancing namechecks of his existence and local high-school-athlete coverage rather than coverage that's substantively about him in any notability-building sense. I've further been completely unable to verify this article's claim that he was born in
Sudbury — even the database entry present here as the article's sole source fails to claim that, and his local high-school-athlete coverage is found in
Ottawa, not Sudbury. (And yes, I get that it's possible for people to be born in one place and then move to another, but we still need to be able to
verify claims about a person's birthplace.)
Finishing ninth in an Olympic event just isn't "inherently" notable enough anymore to exempt him from ever having to have more reliable source coverage than I've been able to find.
Bearcat (
talk) 19:03, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople and Canada. Bearcat ( talk) 19:03, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Olympics-related deletion discussions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 19:50, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: Besides raising chickens in his backyard [1] -and it might not even be this person- nothing for notability. Aylmer is near Ottawa. Oaktree b ( talk) 20:03, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
- Keep. @ Oaktree b and Bearcat: Passes GNG, see coverage at newspapers.com: Ottawa Citizen feature ( p2), more Ottawa Citizen, Harbor City Star, and The Standard. BeanieFan11 ( talk) 20:25, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- The Ottawa Citizen is the local hometown coverage I mentioned in my nomination statement, the St. Cat's Standard is just a short blurb that nominally verifies a fact but is not long enough to imbue said fact with any notability points, and the Harbour City Star hit is literally just an advertorial to sell aquatic sport clothing that Tyler Lawlor is modelling, not an article about Tyler Lawlor doing anything noteworthy. So the Ottawa Citizen is still all we've actually got for GNG-worthy coverage, and that's still "local guy" coverage in his hometown newspaper (i.e. not enough if it's all he's got).
Bearcat (
talk) 20:48, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- The Ottawa Citizen is one of the largest newspapers in Canada, and as such should be given the full weight of a normal significant source (esp. considering that locality of coverage is irrelevant). The Harbour City Star piece: yes, it is about a business of Lawlor's, but it seems to be written by a valid journalist by a valid company (Southam Newspapers, owned by
Postmedia Network) – it seems to have enough details on him IMO to be categorized as covering him "
directly and in detail, so that no original research is needed to extract the content" – as far as I'm aware a source does not need to cover someone for them doing something one subjectively things is "noteworthy" to be considered significant.
BeanieFan11 (
talk) 21:07, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- Nobody dismissed the Ottawa Citizen on size grounds, but all newspapers can still cover local residents in local-interest contexts that don't necessarily clinch nationalized or internationalized notability in and of themselves for a person who has virtually nothing wider than just their hometown. For instance, a restaurant owner in Byward Market is not going to clear GNG just because a restaurant critic reviewed his restaurant in the Citizen, a local artist winning a local arts award from the SAW Gallery isn't going to clear NARTIST standards on that basis alone, and on and so forth. Even The New York Times features coverage of local people in local-interest contexts that don't establish permanent national or international notability all by themselves just because their local coverage came from The New York Times instead of the Palookaville Herald, because GNG does take into account the context of what the person is getting covered for and not just the raw number of hits that exist. Bearcat ( talk) 01:57, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
- The Ottawa Citizen is one of the largest newspapers in Canada, and as such should be given the full weight of a normal significant source (esp. considering that locality of coverage is irrelevant). The Harbour City Star piece: yes, it is about a business of Lawlor's, but it seems to be written by a valid journalist by a valid company (Southam Newspapers, owned by
Postmedia Network) – it seems to have enough details on him IMO to be categorized as covering him "
directly and in detail, so that no original research is needed to extract the content" – as far as I'm aware a source does not need to cover someone for them doing something one subjectively things is "noteworthy" to be considered significant.
BeanieFan11 (
talk) 21:07, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- The Ottawa Citizen is the local hometown coverage I mentioned in my nomination statement, the St. Cat's Standard is just a short blurb that nominally verifies a fact but is not long enough to imbue said fact with any notability points, and the Harbour City Star hit is literally just an advertorial to sell aquatic sport clothing that Tyler Lawlor is modelling, not an article about Tyler Lawlor doing anything noteworthy. So the Ottawa Citizen is still all we've actually got for GNG-worthy coverage, and that's still "local guy" coverage in his hometown newspaper (i.e. not enough if it's all he's got).
Bearcat (
talk) 20:48, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
- Keep Per BeanieFan11. Themanwithnowifi ( talk) 06:56, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
Andras de Lisocky
- Andras de Lisocky ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Fails WP:NATHLETE, WP:GNG. Only source included is a WP:TRIVIALMENTION Cocobb8 (💬 talk • ✏️ contribs) 14:30, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Cocobb8 (💬 talk • ✏️ contribs) 14:30, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Olympics and Colombia. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 16:32, 12 April 2024 (UTC)
- Keep, I think WP:NATHLETE is not the appropriate policy because de Lisocky is not a track and field sportsman, road racer, or cross country runner. De Lisocky is a gold medalist at a major international competition, so I do believe that we can be confident that contemporary coverage must exist. Finding those newspapers / other sources may be difficult, but we have to at least put in an effort. -- Habst ( talk) 13:22, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Desertarun ( talk) 15:40, 19 April 2024 (UTC)Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Shadow311 ( talk) 15:56, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment. The Bolivarian Games is not a major international competition. It is a smaller event with 6 participating countries. The Pan American Games would be the major competition in this case. Geschichte ( talk) 17:36, 27 April 2024 (UTC)
Foday Sillah
- Foday Sillah ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
The title and status he has earned are not encyclopedic. Redivy ( talk) 21:58, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople and Sport of athletics. Redivy ( talk) 21:58, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- It is inappropriate to call one of the best athletes from an African nation as "not encyclopedic"; whether we can find the coverage to demonstrate notability, that will be another story. BeanieFan11 ( talk) 23:59, 10 April 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Olympics and Sierra Leone. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 00:06, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: I don't see coverage about a person with this name, a few hits on a school in The Gambia with this name. Happy to revisit if others can turn up sourcing. Oaktree b ( talk) 00:29, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment - nominator needs to familiarize themselves with WP:NOTENCYCLOPEDIC. Low effort nominations like this are going to be thrown out whether the subject is notable or not. Sergecross73 msg me 00:32, 11 April 2024 (UTC)
- Keep based on Sergecross73's comment,
Low effort nominations like this are going to be thrown out whether the subject is notable or not
. I was able to find a lot of verifiable information about this person that was not mentioned at all in the nominated article or nomination statement, including his exploits at the World U20 championships where he was the highest-placing male Sierra Leonean athlete ever, he was actually a two-time Olympian and not just at the 1992 Olympics, and he has a still-standing national record at 200 metres. Finding contemporary African news reports from this period is difficult, but I believe there is enough evidence here to know that further coverage exists. -- Habst ( talk) 17:37, 15 April 2024 (UTC) - Comment. The information can often, as well as in this case, be found via What Links Here. It still needs non-database sources Geschichte ( talk) 06:55, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- FWIW I don't think anyone, besides maybe some people who are already editors, looks up people without articles here and then finds and clicks "what links here" to find information about them. A standalone article is much more beneficial to readers, as that way we get both the bare information one would get from a table-link-mention and plenty of other interesting, additional details explained with context. BeanieFan11 ( talk) 15:20, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- @
Geschichte, thanks for bringing this up. Not all of the information could be found via What Links Here, for example the fact that Sillah's World U20 performance was the best by any Sierra Leonean. Also, if the article were to be deleted, the standard practice is then that any links to the article would be un-linked per
WP:REDLINK (
"Red links should not be made to articles deleted because the topic was judged unencyclopedic or lacking notability"
), meaning that Special:WhatLinksHere would be useless (text searches are not reliable because they could include people with the same name) and much of this structured data would essentially be lost to history. -- Habst ( talk) 17:05, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- @ BeanieFan11 My point was about using What Links Here for nominators (and other editors). The reason why Lugnuts' articles were so horrible, was that they typically mention competing in a single Olympic event, where the athlete's career often had much more longevity. Geschichte ( talk) 20:35, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Ordinarily, I'd close this AFD as a procedural Keep due to the lack of a valid deletion rationale but we do have an opinion to Delete this article so I'm relisting to see if editors can come up with additional sourcing to demonstrate that this subject is "encyclopedic".
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:04, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
- Strong Keep, as the article stands today it seems enough for the article to not be deleted. Themanwithnowifi ( talk) 15:15, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- Comment. The nomination statement notwithstanding, not a single source with
significant coverage has been located. Sillah wasn't that high-ranking as an athlete that we can jettison the demand for sources because we think
WP:ITSINTERESTING.
Geschichte (
talk) 20:35, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- @
Geschichte,
there is no deadline for Wikipedia. I believe the info we know about Sillah is conclusive that coverage must exist of him based on his accomplishments making him the best in his country, but it's a matter of having access to the African sources from the 90s that would have covered him. Scans of these may become available in 1, 10, or 20 years – that's why
WP:NEXISTS is a policy, to allow for time to get the sources. But saying to drafty in this case is essentially saying to delete the article in 6 months, because most drafts are abandoned. What do you think? --
Habst (
talk) 20:44, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- Sorry, I was responding to an older version of the reply that was a draftify vote. It was edited to Comment after I started writing my reply. --
Habst (
talk) 22:14, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- Habst, I think there is a good reason why the rule about coverage was added. The days when articles could be built solely on databases and primary sources are over, we have to face that.
Geschichte (
talk) 07:48, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- @
Geschichte, thank you, which rule are you referring to? I am open to deleting this and any other page based on a rule, but I just can't see what is being violated. I've edited Wikipedia both before and after
WP:NSPORTS2022, and it does not invalidate
WP:NEXIST. Respectfully, --
Habst (
talk) 10:09, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- NEXIST = grasping at straws. You personally think there are lots of significant coverage about this and that person, but that doesn't make it true and how likely it is varies a lot. For a person like Nikolay Antonov, it was overwhelmingly likely, but here - with the highlights being an U20 performance and a slow indoor record - it is nowhere near as likely.
Geschichte (
talk) 08:03, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- @ Geschichte, thanks for your perspective because I think the challenge is important. NEXIST isn't grasping at straws; the idea that we can know that coverage exists based on depth of accomplishments is the entire basis of subject-specific notability guidelines existing. Yes, it was used successfully on Nikolay Atanasov, but it has also been used successfully in other cases such as Abdou Manzo, understanding that Sillah's 200m record (1069 pts) is actually better than Manzo's record (924 pts).
- Also, I think that the subject is being sold short on likeliness of coverage. Sillah was, at a time, the best sprinter in Sierra Leone, a country of 8 million people. In order to be selected for all these international teams, he had to have won some sort of national championship or proven himself on the national level. The likelihood that there is no contemporary coverage of this person existing in the world is, in my opinion, impossible. -- Habst ( talk) 13:18, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- NEXIST = grasping at straws. You personally think there are lots of significant coverage about this and that person, but that doesn't make it true and how likely it is varies a lot. For a person like Nikolay Antonov, it was overwhelmingly likely, but here - with the highlights being an U20 performance and a slow indoor record - it is nowhere near as likely.
Geschichte (
talk) 08:03, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- @
Geschichte, thank you, which rule are you referring to? I am open to deleting this and any other page based on a rule, but I just can't see what is being violated. I've edited Wikipedia both before and after
WP:NSPORTS2022, and it does not invalidate
WP:NEXIST. Respectfully, --
Habst (
talk) 10:09, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Habst, I think there is a good reason why the rule about coverage was added. The days when articles could be built solely on databases and primary sources are over, we have to face that.
Geschichte (
talk) 07:48, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
- Sorry, I was responding to an older version of the reply that was a draftify vote. It was edited to Comment after I started writing my reply. --
Habst (
talk) 22:14, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
- @
Geschichte,
there is no deadline for Wikipedia. I believe the info we know about Sillah is conclusive that coverage must exist of him based on his accomplishments making him the best in his country, but it's a matter of having access to the African sources from the 90s that would have covered him. Scans of these may become available in 1, 10, or 20 years – that's why
WP:NEXISTS is a policy, to allow for time to get the sources. But saying to drafty in this case is essentially saying to delete the article in 6 months, because most drafts are abandoned. What do you think? --
Habst (
talk) 20:44, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Doczilla Ohhhhhh, no! 05:03, 25 April 2024 (UTC)