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I did a lot of work using VE a few months ago and reported carefully many bugs and problems. I didn't use it much for the last couple of months - too much going on in Real Life - but I've just had a little look and note that most of the early problems I found are still problems. I can easily find bug numbers for some of them so will list those here now:
They're all things which just made my kind of wikignoming edits much more hard work - stub-sorting, fixing dab pages (which links are red?), adding categories and stub tags (need to be able to look at the article content which is hidden by the dialogue box), leaving or reading useful hidden comments for editors, leaving a helpful edit summary.
It's sad to see so much effort having been wasted, but unless most of those bugs get fixed I'm unlikely to come back to using VE. Pam D 07:48, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
Why does VE automatically add a "=" at the end of a parameter? In this edit, the editor adds "October 2013" incorrectly as parameter to a template. VE changes this automatically to "October 2013 = ". Sometimes this is desirable, but not always. Some parameters don't need a value, they just need adding. Fram ( talk) 11:58, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
How does an editor make the distinction between named and unnamed parameters in VE (for templates without template data, that is)? Fram ( talk) 06:54, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
No idea whether this is a VE bug or VE highlighting some very strange things in some template or hidden comment or whatever (or, probably, both), but please compare Yersiniabactin with the article in VE mode. That the infobox becomes unrecognizable, oh well, but what happens with the references? Fram ( talk) 12:27, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
The extra 14 references seem to have gone now (they'll be dearly missed), the malformed infobox is still present. Fram ( talk) 09:20, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
Hello,
The User guide says that it takes a "few seconds" for the VE to open. I find that it takes more like a minute, even for a short article. I use Chrome which is a supported browser, they say, with the vector skin. What am I doing wrong? I've never managed to make an edit in VE. Thanks, Soranoch ( talk) 22:39, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
Hi User:Soranoch, are you using any Chrome extensions, such as 'Kill Evil' ( bugzilla:52008)? John Vandenberg ( chat) 03:39, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
No idea how the editor achieved this, but I don't think that VE should ever introduce a <br> inside a header: [1]. I tried to do the same, but got suddenly an empty header with a nowiki in instead [2], which shouldn't have happened as well (I selected header and section, ctrl-X, and psated it in front of the "Philosophy of Science" header. Note that I didn't get the "nowiki" error warning either. Note also that opening and saving take way too long. Fram ( talk) 14:52, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
I'm trying to select one template, but get unexpected results. If you go to Karl Popper, put the cursor at the start of th header "Backdrop to his thought", and use the left side "caps arrow" plus the up-arrow from the four direction arrows (to select the line above it), the first time you do this, your cursor disappears. The second time, you select everything including half a line of the paragraph above the "philosophy" section header, the philosophy section header, and the "main" template. This is rather unexpected.
Similarly, only using the "up" arrow, starting again at the same place: first time, the cursor seems to disappear (looking more closely, it stands at the right side of the infobox, at the height of the "main article" template. Using it again movs it to the middle of the last line of the previous paragraph, skipping the template and the "philosophy" section header.
The reverse is even worse. Starting from the paragraph above the "philosophy" header and using the "down" arrow, your cursor moves to the end of the "philosophy" header (good!); using "down" again, it moves to the right of the infobox (at the same line as the "main article" template) (not good, perhaps acceptable); using down again, and again, and again, does absoluetly nothing anymore...
Stranger and stranger: going from the "philosophy" header using the right button works like a charm. If you then start using the "up" arrow though, you are no longer scrollong inside the text, but yo uare scrolling the whole webpage instead... I stopped testing after this, having had more than enough of this!
Basically, the use of arrows in VE shows some very bizarre behaviour and should be thoroughly tested and bugfixed. Fram ( talk) 15:02, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
I am just doing some dab relinking and besides the script marking disambiguation pages not working I also noticed for the first time that non existing pages have still blue links in the edit view, which is quiet disturbing because I tend to open them in new tabs to see if they help me find the right target for the link I am working on.-- Saehrimnir ( talk) 16:41, 26 October 2013 (UTC)
Hello. I wanted to tell you that the engineering department is hosting two office hours this week to discuss VisualEditor. The first of these will be held on Saturday, 2 November, at 1700 UTC; the second will be held some hours later, you can check local time and connect here. Please join as Product Manager James Forrester discusses VisualEditor and upcoming plans. Logs will be posted on meta after each office hour completes. (If office hours are heavily attended, it can be difficult to get to all questions, but if you want to ask a question and cannot attend, please let us know your question here by Friday and we will present it among possible discussion topics.)
Thanks! -- Elitre (WMF) ( talk) 09:46, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
VE can now edit files, categories, and Help pages. But at Preferences, at the Editing tab, this is still the language:
-- John Broughton (♫♫) 16:19, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
When editing with VE in the category namespace, the lists of subcategories and pages in the category disappear... not very WYSIWYG, and not what happens when you use Preview in source editor. I know that you won't be able to edit the listings from the category page, but they should still appear, with green stripes over it or something. (I am using Vector / Chrome v30 / Windows 7) - Evad37 ( talk) 01:10, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
It seems extra space appears in VE between the text from a cite template and any text following the template text when that text takes multiple lines, e.g., at United States#Bibliography. Other strangeness with the bullet placements seems to appear as well. FF 24 Win 7-- Atethnekos ( Discussion, Contributions) 03:57, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
Just doing my daily routine of minor fixes i noticed, that VisualEditor seems to ignore the watchlist preference "Add pages and files I edit to my watchlist" and always has "add to watchlist" active by default in the Save window. The checkbox status should depend on the preference setting and un-check the watchlist checkbox, when the preference is not active. (A quick bug search for "watchlist" did not reveal any old related bugs). OS is Windows XP with FF, vector skin active. GermanJoe ( talk) 09:35, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
Now that it's possible to edit files in VE, I couldn't help but try it of course. File:Ambox warning orange.svg gives me some strange results though. First, it seems to be impossible to select the green padlock symbol, which is buried beneath the "keep local" template. Looking further indicates that the padlock is part of that template, but because of the way the blue template box is shown (with a slightly wider blue box at the level of the padlock), I was fooled here.
Second, the text "(Automatically detected[...]" starts one tab removed from the left border. This is caused by a ":" in the text. It seems to be impossible to change this in VE though? Fram ( talk) 09:52, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
I think I've seen this one recently in the "solved bugs" section, but it seems to be not completely solved. Sadly, I can't give you the exact circumstances in which it happens. I was editing in VE Yersinia pseudotuberculosis, but left it open and did some other things (VE and non-VE). Coming back a few minutes later to the open article, I can no longer use the "Save" button, even if I make new changes to it (the undo button work, so VE "known" that I have mdae changes). I tried to get the same result with other articles, but so far I haven't been able to reproduce it (which makes it hard for you to solve). If I encounter it again, or anyone else has the same problem, then perhaps some useful case may be created... Fram ( talk) 09:59, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
Ah, I have been able to reproduce it.
Tried it on Albert I of Belgium as well, and got the same result. Fram ( talk) 10:07, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
Recently, I made a post about unnecessary changes in ref names (adding quotes and spaces) through VE. Apparently the same happens with other things as well, e.g. here a lot of "colspan" statements are "tidied" by VE, adding spaces before and after, even though these achieve nothing and only dirty the diff. Fram ( talk) 10:25, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
There are some old issues mentioned before (now in the archives) but they still seem to be effective, should I repost them here? -- Atethnekos ( Discussion, Contributions) 18:51, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
The nowiki shouldn't have been added in the first place, but that's a known problem. But why does it remain here [4]? Fram ( talk) 15:39, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
Hi,
I'd like to suggest an improvement for VE: since it's quite easy for a new editor to delete a <references/> tag without noticing, that would be nice if VE prevented saving such error (or at least put a warning) when the article was ok before editing and damaged after editing (error message displayed in the article). -- NicoV ( Talk on frwiki) 16:05, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
{{cite book |page=417 |quote="Lorem dolor sit amet..." |author= Baron-Cohen S |authorlink= Simon Baron-Cohen |chapter= The evolution of brain mechanisms for social behavior |title= Foundations of Evolutionary Psychology |editor= Crawford C, Krebs D (eds.) |publisher= Lawrence Erlbaum |date=2008 |isbn=978-0-8058-5956-0}}
I just worked on a page and had a problem (reported above). So, I used the feedback option. I have two issues with that option. First, it is not clear that the feedback will be posted with-out (at least as far as I can see) any indication of what site the editor is on when s/he fills out the form. I had assumed that that information would be included automatically ( like in some discussion articles on requests for deletion etc.). Since /If it isn't, the editor fling the feedback should be given a heads up, since viewing the specific site is often needed for others to understand the problem, and the editor might not come back for a while or might have edited a lot of sites and not remember which one had the problem. Second, after completing the feedback and sending it, I was still on the VE page, but I cannot save the page (the button is light green and inactive). It seems the only way to exit is to cancel, losing any changes I might have made (actually, after writing the feedback, I don't remember if any of my changes were made in that session, so it's possible, there are no changes to be lost, but still....) Kdammers ( talk) 02:13, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
So the story is that the feedback tool is not specific to VisualEditor. The only thing that VisualEditor has any control over is the link (to this page). But James A is going to see whether it's possible to get the rest of the text clarified for everyone, which would obviously include us, too. Whatamidoing (WMF) ( talk) 22:58, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
I use VE once in a while for simple edits. Today I made
this edit to add quotation marks for song titles and used the edit summary "added quotation marks". When I checked my edit after saving, I was surprised to see that VE correctly added some additional quotation marks in <ref name>
tags, but was happy it was consistent with my edit summary. :-)
GoingBatty (
talk) 00:45, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
I think this was noted a few months ago, but bringing it back to make sure won't hurt. In Flags of counties of the United States, there are references inside galleries (which isn't uncommon). In VE, you get big red "Cite error" notices for these. Fram ( talk) 14:58, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
Can anyone confirm this for me?
I ran into this over at office.wikimedia, but office is also running MediaWiki version 1.23wmf3 (2ac963d), so it should behave the same here. I particularly want to know whether this is a Mac/Safari/Vector issue, or if it also happens elsewhere. Thanks, Whatamidoing (WMF) ( talk) 20:21, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
Pages like Bethesda Athletic F.C. don't look so good in VE. The infobox gets mangled. The same happens to more well-known clubs like Manchester United F.C., so I assume that every single club page has the same problem. The template football kit is used on nearly 25,000 pages... Fram ( talk) 15:10, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
Just tried out VisualEditor for the first time on ATV: Quad Frenzy - I was amazed, this really does look like the future. This will engender a massively improved user experience, I could honestly see this having a relatively large affect on editor retention. One piece of constructive criticism that prevents me from switching fully to VE is this - it has no ability (I believe) to integrate with the current reference gadget I use - it is one the far right of my editing toolbar, and is two {{ brackets on top of CITE, and two more }} brackets beneath that. This is a tool I use constantly when creating content and immeasurably useful, so to not be able to use it is in my view, the hamartia of VisualEditor at the moment. Would you consider integrating it? Keep up the amazing work! Acather96 ( click here to contact me) 19:39, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
I looked the feedback page and I can't find if someone mentioned that. I don't know if it was mentioned before and it was archived but I think it's new. When I try to add a reference that already exists I can't see the list of them. I mean, when I was clicking to "choose an existing reference" in the past, I could read the whole references content. Now when I do that, I can only see the numbers of the references and not their content. To find which reference I need, I have to get out of the window, find it on the main text and see its number so I can choose it. I don't know if it has to do anything with it but, I feel like after the last VE update few days ago (last Thursday), some things got messed up :( TeamGale 23:03, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
When editing KLM, when I hit save page I got Error:Unknown error below the edit summary box and a greyed out save page button. However, the edit still saved without any indication that it did so. I actually went to save the page again, not thinking that it had done anything, but luckily checked the history and canceled before it could save (Monobook, Firefox 25, Windows 7):Jay8g [ V• T• E 19:40, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
So, what do you consider the main remaining missing or poorly working aspects of VE? I'll list a few I think of right now, feel free to add your own (I'm bound to froget some very common ones). It may give an indication of where the most urgent problems are situated and which things shouldn't be forgotten... Fram ( talk) 15:34, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
[[Example]]
to be a link to that article and when I mean for that to be something else: perhaps an explanation of how to use wikicode to make a link (e.g., on dozens of Help: pages), or perhaps part of a direct quotation, or perhaps when I'm merely adding it for decorative value (e.g., as ASCII art, like [[-]]-[[-]]-[[-]]-[[-]]
). In the mainspace, here at the Wikipedias, an experienced editor who types double-square brackets almost always means for that to be a link. But outside of encyclopedia articles, or if the user is less experienced, it is
much harder to guess what the actual intent is.
Whatamidoing (WMF) (
talk) 22:38, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
Elitre, you reference Erik Moeller above, who said "We're listening, but in this case we're saying no, and that decision is final. We can elaborate a bit more on the why if that helps, but parsing wikitext in VisualEditor is absolutely not going to happen.". Well, yes, a lot of elaboration would be welcome. Who is the "we" that is saying "no"? The devs? The Foundation? Erik solo? A cross-wiki RfC to see what the editors actually want? "That decision is final". Why? Consensus can change, people can come to new conclusions based on actual experience, needs can be greater than anticipated, ... So why is this "final"? "Elaborate a bit more on the why" is very cynical, as I have not seen any "why" so far, so elaborating more on it is hardly possible. Just start by giving us the why, and what that why is based on, and who made that decision. @ Eloquence:. Fram ( talk) 08:03, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
Opening Cat in VE (FF25, W7) opens the edit notice. Due to the very small box, I can not see the whole edit notice though, and it is apparently impossible to scroll down in it or to it. Furthermore, the functionality it had in wikitext editing (click "show" to display the long text) doesn't work in VE, it is automatically shown and no show-hide button is available. The two big red lines of text also partially overlap, again due to the small window of the page notice (WMF devs seems to like small windows, see also Flow...). Fram ( talk) 08:41, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
If you missed Maggie Dennis' announcement on wikimedia-l, please see my message here. See you there, -- Elitre (WMF) ( talk) 15:29, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
(No harm reproducing date/time in multiple venues - much better than forcing the clicking of a link.) Risker ( talk) 15:50, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
Articles like Sainte-Croix-sur-Mer take very, very long to open in VE (although, probably due to caching, it goes a lot faster on a second try), and have troubles displaying their contents correctly in VE.
In the infobox, the red dots that show where the subject is located on the maps, are totally off.
It is also rather annoying that some templates take up much more "blue" (selected) space than actual space. This is most obvious with the (invisible!) "clear-left" template (beneath the "historical populations" template)
This made me also realise another problem with VE. Imagine that you find the population figures for 1932, and want to add them to the hist pop template. In wikitext, this is very easy. In VE, this is extremely laborious in comparison. Not user friendly at all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fram ( talk • contribs) 2013-11-15T14:28:57
"I'm not sure that it's entirely reasonable for VisualEditor to process that code, though." The template "infobox settlement" is transcluded more than 400,000 times, i.e. this is used on ca 1 in 10 of our articles, as a major visual aspect of it. The template football kit (below), which may have the same or a very similar issue, is used on an additional 25,000 pages. Template chembox, used on nearly 10,000 additional pages, same problem. Not enough? Template taxobox, used on yet another distinct group of 234,000 pages, has the same problem as well... I think it is entirely reasonable to expect a VisualEditor to process our most often used, very prominent templates correctly on an essential visual aspect of them. If that means redesigning the templates, the some VE devs can come over and fix it as far as I am concerned. But simply accepting that these templates will not be rendered correctly in VE is (once again) throwing the arms up in defeat and admitting that VE will never deliver what it set out to do. Fram ( talk) 08:27, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
And while we're at it, you may add the 45,000 transclusions of Template:Infobox NRHP as well. Fram ( talk) 10:55, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
If I'm double counting somehow, please correct me, but otherwise you may add to the above another 146,000 instances of Template:Location map... I think personally that it is entrely reasonable to expect a VisualEditor to correctly precess visual elements used on 1/5th of the Wikipedia articles if it wants to be taken seriously, but YMMV. Fram ( talk) 12:55, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
Is there any update about this bug? It's been almost a month since it was reported and I don't see any difference. Thank you TeamGale 06:46, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
Say I want to make:
[w]
How would I do this simply in VE? Whenever I select the template and go to the link inspector, after I type in the destination for the link and leave the inspector, it inserts a new anchor with the same text as the destination. The work around I found was to type text on either side of the template, and then select all of that text and the template, and then turn that into the link, and then afterwards delete the unneeded text. Is that the optimal way? Firefox 25.0.1; Windows 7 Professional SP1 64-bit; Monobook skin.--
Atethnekos (
Discussion,
Contributions) 07:10, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
I just added two references to an article on Clarence Mulford that had no references. When I finally got them in, the VE announced that I didn't have a references list format. No, I didn't, since I was using VE and not wikiedit. There seemed to be no way to add such a thing (and why isn't it automatic in VE?), so I just went into wikiedit and added it. Kdammers ( talk) 14:07, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
I don't know if this is a bug, a quirk, a trait, or a statement by VE; but out of curiosity, I tried to put something into real-world style, i.e., start a paragraph with an indentation. I did this because, aside from the fact that I really dislike the block style, new editors might also try this. What I got was a message that I had made no change, so my "editing" would be abandoned. Interesting. Kdammers ( talk) 02:59, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
Take a page that has only {{ipa|w}} in the source. E.g., [5]. Enter VE. Place cursor after the template. Cursor key left. This selects the template. Cursor left again. Template is deselected and cursor is placed to the left of the template, at the start of the line. Press "a". A pawn appears and is selected. Firefox 25.0.1; Windows 7 Professional SP1 64-bit; Monobook skin. -- Atethnekos ( Discussion, Contributions) 07:18, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
Testing this (FF25, W7, Vector) in live articles with IPA, I get the same and different (but probably related) issues. First, I get the "reverse typing" bug frighteningly easy. Go to Hanki, put your cursor somewhere after the IPA template, move back with the arrows until you select the IPA and then once more, and start typing... Opposite works as well, cursor in front of IPA, right, right (so the cursor is after the IPA, and start typing backwards! Try again: cursor in front of IPA, move right (with arrow) beyong the IPA until the cursor is just in front of the first wikilink (village) (or any other wikilink in the article). Start typing, and you get a pawn. You can get other amusing effects by testing different situations (like a case where you can type one character, and the second and all following ones are again pawns), but I don't think listing these will help in pinpointing and solving this (old) problem.
It is also not restricted to IPA, it seems that any template can cause this issue. On Selan (Dungeons & Dragons), put your cursor at the start of the text (ie before "In the..."), arrow left (select infobox), arrow left (deselect infobox), start typing; pawn! If, on the other hand, you use arrow left (select infobox), arrow right (nothing, a bug in its own right), arrow right (cursor is in front of "In the..."), start typing, you again start typing backwards. On refs, I get the reverse; the backwards typing happens when I end in front of the ref number, the pawn happens when I start typing to the right of the reference (a always, after selecting and deselecting it using the arrows). Fram ( talk) 09:50, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
I have created a new issue for this, since it doesn't seem to match any of the more specific "fixed" ones. Fram ( talk) 10:36, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
Take a page with:
#One
#
#Two
In view mode this appears something like:
In VE it appears something like:
Firefox 25.0.1; Windows 7 Professional SP1 64-bit; Monobook skin. -- Atethnekos ( Discussion, Contributions) 06:07, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
This listing on Buzilla says "RESOLVED FIXED" for its status.
If I go to Plato, enter VE, right click, select all, and then press some letter or number, a pawn will appear. Also, if I review changes, there is still material left is the "your text" section. Firefox 25.0.1; Windows 7 Professional SP1 64-bit; Monobook skin. -- Atethnekos ( Discussion, Contributions) 06:37, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
Hi,
Seasons greetings.At Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical) we are discussig Wikipedia_referencing_and_citations, avanues_for_more_help and request for comment.
Rgds
Mahitgar ( talk) 10:20, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
So now you can switch from VE to the text editor to change tables or image galleries. Does this mean such things will not be supported in the future? Or does it mean a general abandonment of VE for all but simple text? Konveyor Belt 18:58, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
I noted some weeks ago that some navboxes disappear when you try to move them in VE. I can add now that the "authority control" template has the same problem (disappears after moving, "save button" freezes after you have reviewed that change). Tested on David B. Feinberg. Fram ( talk) 10:04, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
Oh, and stub templates as well apparently! Tested on Tessie Santiago.
And succession boxes. Tested on Gennady Golovkin. Fram ( talk) 13:18, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
I imagine that in several months, or in over a year, I'm not sure, VE will be deployed again on the English Wikipedia. When I have it enabled in my preferences I see "edit source" vs. "edit beta". Can this be changed? Why can't we have "edit" and "edit visual" when it comes back out? Biosthmors ( talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{ U}}) while signing a reply, thx 14:56, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
VisualEditor newsletter for November 2013: " An incompatibility between VisualEditor and the deployed Parsoid service that prevented editing categories and language links was fixed." Really? So the message on the "language" dropdown menu, "This is a list of pages in other languages that are linked to this one; for now, it can only be edited in source mode.", or the fact that indeed these languages can't be changed in VE, is a myth? Glad that is solved then... Fram ( talk) 10:14, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
Hi,
Just for info.
Rgds
Hi. The change review window is too small. It helps me spot accidental edits which might not be visible in the WYSIWYG view but I have to struggle a lot with it. Best regards, Codename Lisa ( talk) 16:14, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
oo-ui-window-frame-small
is set to retain a maximum width and height of 600×400, which is a small subset of .oo-ui-dialog .oo-ui-window-frame
which enforces a maximum dimension of 800×600. Both are too small in comparison to the source mode's review screen that sports a vertically expansible 1358×475 and gets larger with my monitor.width
, max-width
and max-height
properties in both selectors and get a comfy 1581x716 scrolling window which is very lovely. Try it! You'll love it!
Hi. If a feature does not work with a certain web browser, please have the code detect that browser and disable the broken feature by graying it out.
Best regards, Codename Lisa ( talk) 16:17, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
If I go to Sentinelese language, enter VE, I see four "↵" characters at the bottom of the page. If I select them, and then press delete, they disappear. However, when I go to save and review changes I get the message "Could not start the review because your revision matches the latest version of this page." Firefox 25.0.1; Windows 7 Professional SP1 64-bit; Monobook skin. -- Atethnekos ( Discussion, Contributions) 01:08, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
The easiest in VE I found to change an image that's not a thumb into an image that is a thumb (e.g., [[File:Philbar.png]] into [[File:Philbar.png|thumb]] was to resize the image, then go to save and review changes, then I can see the file name for the image, then I go through the regular method of inserting an image now that I have the file name, and it inserts it as a thumb, and then I delete the old, non-thumb image. Is this the easiest way? Firefox 25.0.1; Windows 7 Professional SP1 64-bit; Monobook skin.-- Atethnekos ( Discussion, Contributions) 01:33, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
I'm trying to use the visual editor to mark at numeric field with an tag so that the column sort works properly. I can see the nts transclusion pop up for existing entries but I don't see how to add the same tag to a new entry in the table. There is an option to add a new template but I want to pick an existing template. Is this feature missing or am I missing something? Robertbaertsch ( talk) 13:22, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
Both the notice on first opening VE ("You can keep using the wikitext editor by clicking the "Edit source" tab instead – unsaved changes will be lost.") and the wikitext warning ("Click "Edit source" to edit the page in wikitext mode – unsaved changes will be lost.") need to be changed to reference the newly added ability to switch to the source editor without losing unsaved changes:Jay8g [ V• T• E 05:09, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
I had noticed that (in Firefox) and was going to make a note about it, but I guess I forgot:Jay8g [ V• T• E 20:00, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
I went to make a simple edit (addition of one word before a blue link) in Osteon, using VE (Firefox/ME7). I wanted to check if the blue-link article (I believe it is 'cortical bone') also needed the edit. After I moused over the blue-link and got a pop-up, I could not do any-thing after that. I couldn't close the pop-up; I couldn't type in the article text; I couldn't save; I couldn't exit. The only way out was to close with-out saving. Kdammers ( talk) 06:54, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
When using the Category dialog I added "Category:Computer humor", which was accepted and caused the page to translate into " Category:Category:Computer humor. Preferably the template would automatically detect the use of a "Category:" tag and remove it. Nicereddy ( talk) 23:47, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
If this is meant to be used by the layman, "Transclusion" isn't a good term for the option of adding a template. Is there an explanation for the word chosen? Nicereddy ( talk) 00:47, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
When highlighting text in the Visual Editor, if you right click editing of the page could be sped up further by opening the toolbar when right clicking on that text. For example, if I were to highlight text and then right click on said highlighted text a (modified?) version of the toolbar would appear above/next to the text highlighted. This would allow for faster editing without requiring the user moves their mouse across the screen. While I realize this is possible with keyboard commands, it may be preferable for many users.
Similarly, using the right click on any section of the page, regardless of whether or not any text is highlighted, the toolbar would show up as a dialog which would allow for easier use of its various functions. Nicereddy ( talk) 00:51, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
We can now also edit Help pages with VE. This seems to work for some pages, if anyone would need it (you know, those people that need to edit help pages but don't know wikitext sufficiently to be editing them directly, a very elusive group indeed); but don't try it with Help:WikiHiero syntax, it has caused FF25 (on W7) to crash twice in two tests. Can someone confirm this, and does it happen with other (help) pages as well? Fram ( talk) 14:34, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
I've reported several examples of categories moved by VE into ref tags in frwiki: Indicateur de développement durable, Famille de Montesquiou, Dan Flavin. -- NicoV ( Talk on frwiki) 09:51, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
Ralph Day; reference 1 and 3 are not editable in VE. You can open the edit ref box and change them, but you can't see what is actually there at the moment. The same applies in a different way to Gordon Guasco, which has a bare URL, but not as a ref but as an external link. Not editable... Cecilia Östlund has one not as a ref or external link, but in the text. We have currently over 2,000 pages tagged with Template:Cleanup-bare URLs, and many more that don't have the template but that have bare URLs nevertheless (e.g. my examples). Fram ( talk) 09:26, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
Please, add "Find and Replace" function to Visual Editor -- Xusinboy Bekchanov ( talk) 21:02, 1 December 2013 (UTC).
Impossible to do so, Notifications seemed all at once in the current project? -- Xusinboy Bekchanov ( talk) 05:15, 3 December 2013 (UTC).
The {{ tl}} template doesn't display anything when editing a page in VE. Not really a problem for articles, but is definitely a problem for help pages. For example, look at the "Aliases" section of Help:Template in VE. I'm using Vector/Chrome/Win7. - Evad37 [ talk 06:22, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
Just installed IE11 and decided to check out Visual Editor (according to Wikipedia:VisualEditor, "Internet Explorer 11 users are currently able to use VE", though the message when you actually try to use it "You are using a browser which is not officially supported by VisualEditor" gives a slightly different impression).
Most pages do not load at all, at least within my patience span. The "progress bar" keeps churning around but nothing happens. I managed to get the edit screen up for a three-line article, but when I typed a character and then hit backspace the whole paragraph disappeared and was irretrievable with "Undo". The same happened with "Delete": the whole paragraph is irretrievably deleted. Then I put the cursor on the end of a line and hit "Enter" to create a new paragraph but nothing happened.
Then I highlighted some text and clicked the "bold" button and again the paragraph disappeared. Same with "italic". Sometimes, instead of the paragraph disappearing, nothing happened.
So, basically, the first most trivially simple editing tasks that I tried all failed spectacularly. I assume that either the message "Internet Explorer 11 users are currently able to use VE" has been put up in error, or there is some local configuration issue or other local problem with my setup. 86.129.17.245 ( talk) 23:51, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
VE sometimes changes things unrelated to your actual edit. Perhaps there is a good reason for this, I don't know, but it is rather surprising and not always beneficial.
I noticed the addition of "nowikis" here? The initial problem is not VE related, in an earlier edit someone removed the first curly bracket from the Persondata template. But when testing this, I noticed that VEacts strange here: if you start at the same version as the linked edit above (i.e. here), then without making any changes, you see that "review changes" displays again the | instead of the nowikis. Now, if you change anything in the article (e.g. adding a comma after "2010"), and you again use "review changes", you'll note that the | in the persondata template are no longer shown. This means that whatever you change in the article, the "|" gets removed (not just included in nowikis, but completely removed). This seems to be unwanted behaviour. Fram ( talk) 11:11, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
I wanted to add the names of some articles I recently created to a list I keep, and hovering over the /!\ symbol near the top shows "1 notice." What notice is it talking about? 28bytes ( talk) 01:46, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
VE now works for portal space (which was hardly a priority, but anyway...). Looking at e.g. Portal:Current events, you start with an edit notice that isn't valid in VE (you can't paste the code given there in VE and expect it to work). Apart from that, there is very little I can do here, as the page exists of other subpages. So I look at the subpages, e.g. Portal:Current events/News Browser. Hmm, not a lot I can do here... Oh, I can move the documentation above the globe bar, instead of below it. This is fun! Luckily I use preview and know some wikicode before I save this, because moving the documentation moves it from inside "noinclude" to outside "noinclude" tags, creating a totally different result. Useful!
Another subpage is Portal:Current events/2013 November 26. In wikitext editing, you start with a full screen of notes and warnings; none of these is visible in VE though. Then again, you can't do anything here either with VE, even though the contents are here, not on another subpage! So, while this technically seems to work, the actual usefulness of this (and need for it) seem to be absolutely minimal.
But it also works for Books! Why? No one knows... Looking at e.g. Book:American comic strips before 1918, in VE it starts with messing up the header, as it is unable to show the links in it correctly... Considering that this header is used in every single book, this again is a rather clear test fail, as usual. Apart from that, the basic features seem to work. Well, until you try them, that is. In VE editing mode, the new line I added as a test was properly indented with the other items, but on saving, it was left aligned, with no possibility to get it aligned with the rest of the items [6]. Seeing that this is the standard layout used by many books (e.g. Book:Adele or Book:Mathematics), this means that no, we can't use VE to create or properly maintain Books. So the point of the announcement in Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Updates/November 20, 2013 totally escapes me, unless the meaning is "we are wasting time on useless aspects of VE, instead of fixing the many truly necessary but buggy ones". Luckily, by not testing these changes properly, you are not wasting too much of your time. Small blessings. Fram ( talk) 12:57, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
When I edit Keith Murray (rapper) in VE, open the infobox, and look at the parameters on the right side, I notice strange boxes to the right of the parameter names, sometimes light gray, sometimes dark gray, without any possibility to select them, without any explanation, and without any apparent logic. Sometime sthe dark gray box is the same as the parameter name (Landscape), sometimes it is something different (Image caption), and sometimes it is missing completely (native name). Sometimes there are two of them (Website).
When I start typing parameter names, I get strange results (e.g. typing "Website" gives a different result from selecting Website, even though they look the same in the parameters list) I presume the boxes indicate acceptable parameter names, but this is not clear at all, and I am still struggling to see any difference between what's in the white and gray boxes. Fram ( talk) 10:33, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
When adding a category to a page using the VisualEditor it doesn't show the new category at the bottom of the article after pressing "Save page". The category is added, but you have to refresh the page to see the change. Nicereddy ( talk) 01:13, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
I was updating cost/kg LEO values in the table on this page. /info/en/?search=Comparison_of_orbital_launch_systems
I got it to work but it required quite a bit of trial and error. In order to add one number you need to add a transclusion tag, enter nts, add a parameter with the name "1", then enter the number into the text box. Could this be made easier. What does "nts" stand for? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Robertbaertsch ( talk • contribs) 22:53, 7 December 2013
I tried to create a new article TWICE but I wasn't able to save it!! The first time I clicked "Preview your changes" to take a look of it (I always do that) but the page kept loading and loading with no result! When I took the decision that nothing was going to happen, I said to give it one more try and start all over again. The second time around I skipped the "preview your changes" and I went straight to the "save"! Again the same thing happened! I left it like that for 20min hoping that it will be saved but nothing! It kept loading and loading! I faced the same issue with the previous article I created but the second time that one was saved and I thought that I just spent to much time to finish it because I left it open for a while and then came back to finish! But this time it was not the case! I am not willing to spend another 1-2hours to try for a third time! If this is a bug please fix it! I lost my work twice and till this gets solved I am not willing to take any risks again to create a page with VE and that makes me really sad because even though I can use the source to create a page with VE is so much easier! I am using Firefox 25, Windows 8. TeamGale 09:05, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
TeamGale, VE isn't intended to really create new pages, use images, use references, use templates, use wikitext, use ... well, anything apparently. You can use it to make some cosmetic or minor changes, but for anything slightly more complicated, you just have to be very lucky to be able to proceed correctly with it. This is intended to welcome new editors, increase editor retention, and keep Bugzilla filled until eternity. The only people really happy with Ve seem to be the people that developed it, I guess that their technical end-of-year target has been met, doesn't matter if anyone uses it or is satisfied with it. It now has been live on enwiki for nearly half a year and we are still at the most basic errors stage, which isn't surprising since the software isn't being tested in any significant way before being deployed. Happy editing! Fram ( talk) 08:20, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
I see. Thanks for clarifying and explaining. That means everything will be OK now? If it happens again I'll let you know. Thanks again :) TeamGale 23:58, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
Any updates of what might be going on? TeamGale 12:16, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
Gabriel Wicke Ssastry I read the threads you linked and that was the same answer I got the first time I reported it. The only thing is that in my case...I do NOT get any error mistake OR my edit saved! And it never happened to me on wiki text, only on VE. Sorry if I am getting repetitive but, what I get is a loading bar...loading forever (I left it up to 20min) and nothing happens!! NO error...NO save!!! If it would save it it would be great but it doesn't! And the whole work is lost! Is that the same thing as the problem you mentioned? It seems different to me... TeamGale 23:57, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
Bug report | VisualEditor |
---|---|
Mito.money | Please app{} |
Intention: | Edit a page without adding it to my watchlist |
Steps to Reproduce: | #Clicked "edit - beta"
This is reproduceable |
Results: | I accidentally added many pages to my watchlist. |
Expectations: | Since the "Add pages and files I edit to my watchlist" checkbox in my Preferences is unchecked, I expect the "Watch this page" box to also be unchecked for pages not already on my watchlist, like the regular editor does. |
Page where the issue occurs | en.wikipedia.org |
Web browser | Firefox 25.0.1 |
Operating system | Windows 7 |
Skin | Vector |
Notes: | |
Workaround or suggested solution | Notice that the "Watch this page" box is checked and uncheck it, or go back to the regular editor |
GoingBatty ( talk) 03:54, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
I reported this bug a while ago that its status says "RESOLVED DUPLICATE of bug". The duplicated bug says "resolved fixed" but that's not true. I still encounter with the specific problem about the usage of existing references. TeamGale 06:42, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
Sometimes, if I add a space after a reference, a chess pawn will show up. It usually happens if there is a line of text after a reference that I am working with.-- ¿3fam ily6 contribs 16:08, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
Bug report | VisualEditor |
---|---|
Mito.money | Please app{} |
Intention: | I just wanted to edit an article and realized that numbering of in-text references changes when I click the edit button. |
Steps to Reproduce: | # Go to
https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=André-Joseph_Léonard&oldid=585652876
Reproducable by following the steps above. |
Results: | Statements in the edited text seem to be related to other sources than they actually are. |
Expectations: | Numbering stays the same in view and edit mode. |
Page where the issue occurs | /info/en/?search=Andr%C3%A9-Joseph_L%C3%A9onard vs. /info/en/?search=Andr%C3%A9-Joseph_L%C3%A9onard?veaction=edit |
Web browser | Firefox 25.0 |
Operating system | Ubuntu GNOME 13.10 |
Skin | Vector |
Notes: | |
Workaround or suggested solution |
Blahma ( talk) 22:54, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
AT the article on Metropolitan (magazine), there is a section with a short list of famous contributors. They didn't seem to be any any particular order, so I tried to put them in alphabetical order using C&P in VE (Windows 7/Mozilla). The square bullets got left hanging, and then after about the fourth shift, when I cut Jack London and tried to paste him, he was gone. I could not paste that line, nor could I step back to see ti. Then when I tried some-thing else, the whole thing went kaploohey, with only one item left in the list, and that with two bullets. I could not step backward. So I gave up. I'll use the source editor. But I seem to recall having had a problem with modifying lists using VE before. Is any-one working on this problem? Kdammers ( talk) 08:03, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
Can we enable VE on talk pages, or maybe create a userscript for it? Rezonansowy ( talk • contribs) 21:02, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
?veaction=edit
to the end of the URL. Feel free to click on that button. But I do not think that the button created by your userscript will do anything when you click on it.Bug report | VisualEditor |
---|---|
Mito.money | Please app{} |
Intention: | I was trying to add indent to a paragraph in the visual editor |
Steps to Reproduce: | Try to indent a paragraph on /info/en/?search=Proof_by_infinite_descent?veaction=edit |
Results: | Nothing; cannot use tab to indent and the buttons are greyed out |
Expectations: | For indentation to work |
Page where the issue occurs | /info/en/?search=Proof_by_infinite_descent?veaction=edit |
Web browser | Chrome version 31.0.1650.63 m |
Operating system | Windows 7 |
Skin | Standard |
Notes: | SS: http://i.imgur.com/FH6sTAR.png |
Workaround or suggested solution |
DeathOfBalance ( talk) 16:30, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
Why bother? Testing isn't done by the WMF devs, reports of failures and errors get no, evasive, or wrong answers, bugzilla reports get closed prematurely and incorrectly all the time. Do the people at WMF really want help? They really need help, that has been shown over and over again, but the only ones that don't seem to have gotten the message seem to be working at (or at least being payed by) WMF.
I have described at length what I tested and encountered wrt the supposedly fixed bug 41193, the major aspect of the upcoming untested VE release, in Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback#Rich content?. Replies?
Bugzilla:
With my apologies to the few WMF people involved in this who try their hardest to be user friendly (Elitre comes to mind), but in general, you are not worth the money the WMF (i.e. the Wikipedia readers) spends on you, nor the time lost on you. That the initial release of VE was a catastrophe was bad; but that the repeated fiasco's since then have not learned you anything, and that all your promises to the contrary have been shown to be pure bluster, is much worse. Fram ( talk) 13:06, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
The saga continues:
I supppose that, since the deployment is dependent on this bug being fixed (it was the first and most important of the bugs listed in the status report), it has to be closed at all costs. Deadlines being more important than getting it right, not for the first time. Fram ( talk) 14:51, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
Let's recap what this magnificent, ready-to-go-live new feature actually can do, since bug 41193 is closed. The bug was to "Support copy and paste from other VE instances". To make it easier, I have only tested this with copies from and to MediaWiki, so different versions of the VE software don't come into play. My tests are done using FF25 and W7 (quite a common combination), we know that there are at least bugs with Safari as well, we have no reports from tests with other combinations.
The above list, obviously, isn't exhaustive...
WMF devs, stop protecting your jobs, your deadlines, your colleagues, your pride, your ass, and admit that this thing sucks extremely big time, and that none of you have done any decent testing on this. Again. As always. Stop this deployment, reopen the bug, and fix the bloody thing until at least most of this works. Just do the job you are being payed for, but don't bother us with your stupid toys until they actually work sporadically. Fram ( talk) 21:28, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
Note that above I have been referred to T35105, which is supposedly the main bug for this feature. After thorough testing and due diligence, what is the latest that Product Manager Jfdorrester thought this bug needed?
James Forrester 2013-12-03 00:51:46 UTC Re-prioritising down, as the main work is now complete. Priority: Highest → Normal
Yep, this feature, where almost nothing works as it should, is no longer of highest or even high priority, but now of "normal" priority, since "the main work is now complete"! I'm glad that has been solved then. I understand that the people claiming that I was disrupting them and keeping them from more importan things when I tested their software are reported bugs, can't be bothered to actually make the bug status reflect reality one tiny bit. It probably isn't included in their job description. Oh wait, that's not correct, the job description is the things they don't do. Fram ( talk) 08:15, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
Update 2013-12-05 (MW 1.23wmf6) (planned for implementation at enwiki and most other wikis), described at mw:VisualEditor/status#2013-12-05 (MW 1.23wmf6), should not be implemented here. Deployed at MediaWiki, I found two serious errors affecting many (all?) users. Furthermore, the most important new feature of it only works so-so as well. I have noted these things at mw:Talk:VisualEditor/status, but replies there tend to be erratic and unwelcoming. Fram ( talk) 14:32, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
VE scrolls down to bottom of the page (confirmed for FF by other editor). This is the one that really confirms my fears about the crap that the WMF (or its VE Product Manager at least) hsa been trying to sell us for months now. The problem: if you open a page in VE, the cursos is nicely at the top, but the image, the thing you see, is the bottom of the page... Totally useless, and totally obvious for every human tester worth his salt. Please remind me, how many times has it been said that yes, everything gets tested by humans, but yes, we will do even better in the future? Bullshit. @ Jdforrester (WMF):, are you trying to defend your team and testers out of some misplaced sense of loyalty, or are you simply incompetent, or worse? How many such failures will you need before you see the light? "Switching to Wikitext, oh, that doesn't work in Firefox" or "Who would have thought that other language wikis would use diacritics and accents?" are just a few weeks old, and now this. The updates can't be trusted, the status reports on them can't be trusted, and the WMF excuses can't be trusted. Do you really believe that this is the way to get enwiki (and nl-wiki and dewiki) to reembrace VE anytime soon? Never mind that, do you really believe that that is the way "agile programming" works and software should be deployed? I have to go and test at MediaWiki (where some WMF people made it very clear that I'm ot really to be trusted or welcome) to prevent these "improvements" to be deployed here. I don't think anyone else is doing this, perhaps because they still believe that the WMF handles this, or (more probably) because they can't be bothered with VE anymore at all. Congratulations! Fram ( talk) 14:32, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
This may well be related to 58089 above (let's hope so). When you are editing the text, and you add a reference or a template, the cursor is not placed at (or better yet behind) the ref or template you inserted, but at the top of the article. The page hasn't scrolled up though, so this isn't really obvious. If you start typing after adding a ref or template, you are editing the start of the article, not the place where you were. How this hasn't been noticed isn't clear, but one rant per post is enough. Fram ( talk) 14:32, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
The new update introduces a long awaited improvement: "You can now paste rich content copied from external sources (not just as plain text), including other VisualEditor surfaces". And indeed, you can, but you shouldn't expect it to work very well... I've done two tests, described at MediaWiki, one from another MediaWiki page, and one from an enwiki page, and both contained immediately obvious errors. My third, more ambitious attempt (still one section only) can be seen at [29]. I think there is still some work to be done before this feature can really be considered to be ready for implementation.
As a final test of this bug, I thought, let's play fair, let's just copy the announcement of this change from the status page to my mediawiki sandbox. Nothng fancy, no cross-wiki copy, just the most basic thing this faeture is supposed to do. [30] is the result. I wonder what kind of "rich content" we are supposed to copy-paste with this, I haven't seen much beyond plain text that works. This was important enough to be put first in the status report, and bolded, and even this sucks big time. Fram ( talk) 14:32, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
I'm still trying to see what works, but the results are not encouraging at all. Copying one simple template from a MediaWiki page [32] to my MediaWiki sandbox gives rather unexpected results. Again, the preview is clearly better than the actual result, e.g. the flower image is visible in the preview, but not in the saved page. [33]
If I take a complex page, like here, you can see a whole array of problems, like links not working, images disappearing, first words of piped links with multiple words messing up things, and so on. The things that should have been tested before announcing that it is ready and closing the bug as resolved-fixed. Note that many of these have now become impossible to easily resolve in VE, e.g. the file definitions are now links which return "undefined" when you click on them, and the language links at the bottom are now no longer accessible. Basically, in all my tests, the only conclusion I can draw is that this works when you use text without any markup (so not "rich text"), and gets progressivley worse the more wikimarkup is present.
I also have the impression that the speed of VE has considerably decreased again with the latest release at MediaWiki, e.g. when opening [34] I get a script error. When choosing "continue", the page opens but (as with other pages at MediaWiki) it renders incorrectly in VE (from "Alter the database" on). Fram ( talk) 13:42, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
@ Jdforrester (WMF):. Why did you reclose bug 41193? Without any comment, changes, replies, anything? You have been shown time and time again that you are wrong, that testing is insufficient (or simply non-existant), that bugs which are closed are not fixed, that bugs which you consider duplicates are not duplicates at all (e.g. bug 57209 discussed below), and so on. Perhaps you had a good reason to close the bug as "resolved fixed", but we can't read your mind. If you close a bug as resolved-fixed, and people report serious problems with it and reopen it, then the least you should do is explain your swift reclosing.
Your job description is "My job is to help make sure the VisualEditor team understands what the community wants and needs, is focussed on the things that matter, and is engaging with and understood by the community." Please start doing your job. Fram ( talk) 08:27, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
Note that the above was removed by Jdforrester [35] with the edit summary " WP:NPA; resolved off-wiki.". The NPA is probably "please start doing your job", which is commenting on his edits (or actions as dev, which is equivalent). Criticisms of failures in your job here are not "personal attacks", just like people complaining about admins abusing their tools are not issuing personal attacks. As for "resolved off-wiki", you probably mean mw:Talk:VisualEditor/status#2013-12-05 (MW 1.23wmf6), where you replied to one minor point which was fixed in the meantime, ignoring (not noticing) the other issues with the first examples I gave there? You were pinged about the longer discussion here (so I presume you had seen it as well), which contained plenty further evidence of problems. Apparently that wasn't sufficient either.
For your (i.e. @ Jdforrester (WMF):s) convenience, I compiled Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback#Who needs bugs when you get "fixes" like this?, which is basically what the WMF devs should have done initially, when they created but before they deployed this "fix"; or failing that, what they should have done when people reported that the fix wasn't ready to be deployed, with some examples. Instead, all you (WMF devs) did was giving incorrect replies, not answering at all, avoiding the issue, and complaining about the tone of the posts, as if that was the most important issue and came out of the blue.
Jdforrester, this started with the two major regressions, something which the most basic testing should have found, about which you said "you're quite right, not sure how this slipped through. :-(" You may have not been quite sure, but it is extremely obvious to me, and probably to everyone who has followed this page for the mast half year: it slipped through because you still don't do any testing worth that name, and it costs you dearly time after time.
Please don't try to claim that the Bug 41193 fix had been tested at any length. If it was tested, and these problems weren't found, fire the testers. If it was tested, the problems were found, but people decided to push the fix through anyway, then fire the people that made this decision. If it wasn't tested, then fire yourself and whoever else is supposed to be responsible there (Erik Moeller and the like) for repeatedly lying to us with rather severe consequences. Fram ( talk) 21:58, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
While apparently the pawns and snowmen errors have been fixed (at first glance) we now get clouds and snowflakes instead. Very seasony, that last one, but unwanted behaviour nevertheless. Here I put in VE a square bracket and then an URL, and I get a snowflake on the next line. Do things in a different order, e.g. first put the URL, and then put the end and front squer brackets, and it works allright. Very strange, and doesn't seem to happen before this new version... Fram ( talk) 10:42, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
[http://example.com
(in that order) and it produced a black cloud with the formatting for a level-2 section heading?
Whatamidoing (WMF) (
talk) 22:46, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
The major new feature doesn't work as it should do, and at least two major new bugs are introduced: please, please do the sensible thing for once, and do not implement this update anywhere. Fram ( talk) 14:32, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
Then how do you explain the "new look" of the toolbar at MediaWiki after the 12-12 deployment? [36] now shows the "More" dropdown button in a new, much more stylish format: <visualeditor-toolbar-insert>. Dropping it down, the last entry is the <visualeditor-specialcharacter-button-tooltip>, which opens the <visualeditor-specialcharacterinspector-title>
Yep, the above "nowikis" are the actual text you see. Catchy, isn't it? Of course, being blocked on Bugzilla, I can't file a bug there :-))))
I then tried to edit my sandbox, but on saving, I got "Error: The modification you tried to make was aborted by an extension hook". Nice... I'll let the testers figure out on their own how to reproduce that one though. Further tests still included clouds, and all known problems. But with a better toolbar, credit where credit's due! Fram ( talk) 21:17, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
Using the first article I found with "random article", I tested the "rich text copying" feature which finally has been released to enwiki, despite misguided requests to the contrary.
Eupithecia albibasalis gives [37] for me, with FF25 and W7. Hey, it's nearly the same as the original, no?
So, can some people test this same article as well, and present their results, with their OS, Browser, and other relevant info? It may be at best informative, and at worst very amusing. No need to post your results at Bugzilla though, the WMF devs are, after their own extensive testing, of course aware of all these issues already. Fram ( talk) 21:31, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
I tries this with Vector/Chrome32/Win7. First I tried copying from the article in VE edit mode [38]. Apparently the infobox wasn't copied, even though it appeared to highlighted (which I did using the mouse). Next I used CTRL+A to make sure everything was highlighted, which resulted in [39]. I then tried copying from the article in normal read mode, which gives [40]. The good news? Bold, italic, and bolded italic text copys alright. Templates seem to copy over alright, if you copy them from VE edit mode, and actually manage to highlight them. The bad news? Links are either being completely messed up, when copied from VE mode, or not being copied over at all, when copied from read mode. The reference that isn't inside the infobox template is copied over as as an empty <ref /> tag, or as plain text, depending on the source. - Evad37 [ talk 09:35, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
I switched this thing off wayback but follow the /Feedback page hoping to learn that the left hand understands what the right hand and the rest of the movement is doing. So cringing from afar can pass on my admiration and respects to Fram for her/his tenacity in staying with the subject. I know from other walks of life that expressing the beliefs of hundreds of volunteers can get to be a lonely job- when they recognise that you are saying exactly what they wanted to say, they walk away and let you get on with it. Frams views are universally shared- and should be treated with reverence by WMF and the advice followed to the letter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ClemRutter ( talk • contribs) 22:28, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
And I now have been blocked from Bugzilla by one of the involved devs on that thread, for "Warned in a private email to stop being aggressive". Funnily enough, another, more friendly editor there posted me a link to the Bugzilla etiquette, which contains things like "Do things in public. Unless you were asked to email somebody with specific information, place all information relating to bugs in the bug report itself. Avoid sending private email; no-one else can read your mail if you do that." Which is what I did, but what the blocking Bugzilla admin didn't (and which I only saw after the block was made, I don't constantly check my wikimails). Oh well, it will at least stop the requests to put these things in Bugzilla :-) The email was rather short, but contained a link to the WMF code of conduct policy, which starts "All Wikimedia staff and members of the Board of Trustees are required to abide by this Code of Conduct. It is also intended to provide guidance for volunteers.". As far as I know, I'm not Wikimedia staff not a member of the Board of Trustees... Desperate times and people require desperate measures I suppose? Fram ( talk) 10:31, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
I like the looks of the new VE toolbar, but while it's available at mediawiki, it's not on the English Wikipedia. Is there an expected date for the changeover, here? (I ask because I'd like to update the User Guide.)
Also, a side comment: Why not "Format" or "Formatting" or "Format text" (with a down arrow) rather than the italicized, underlined, capital "A" as the icon for the list of formatting choices? There certainly is plenty of room on the toolbar for that word.
More generally, why are the four pulldown menus on the toolbar handed in four different ways?
Displaying all menus consistently (I'd vote for following the "Paragraph" approach) really would help an editor easily figure out that these are ways to get are multiple choices, whereas all the other icons on the toolbar are single click-to-use options. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 00:50, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
I thought I'd have another go with VE. Tried to edit some tags within "Multiple issues": why is the window for the "issues" only about 1 1/2 lines high, when there is a vast amount of empty white space in the whole editing window? It's irritating not to be able to see all the existing issues without scrolling down (no scroll bar, just have to move cursor down through this mini-window). Generally very un-user-friendly. Using Firefox. Could do a screenshot if necessary, if others don't have this experience. Pam D 12:02, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
If I edit Immanuel Kant, place my cursor at the end of the page, and then cursor back one with the left cursor key, the browser freezes for a while (it says "Not Responding" in the title bar) and then when it comes around it has selected all of the material from the bottom up to and excluding the "See also" heading, and there is a transclusion puzzle piece image link over the selection in the top right corner. If I enter the transclusion dialogue through that link, there are "Content" sections which include text fields. Many of these fields are too small to read much of the text within them easily, an example being the Content section above the "Navboxes" template section. Firefox 25.0.1 Windows 7 Professional SP-1. -- Atethnekos ( Discussion, Contributions) 02:57, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
Also if I place my cursor at the end of the "See also" heading and then cursor forwarddown one with the right down cursor key, the cursor ends up on the right side of the bottom of the "See also" section. If I type a letter then however the letter appears underneath the "Authority control" template. --
Atethnekos (
Discussion,
Contributions) 03:05, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
Bug report | VisualEditor |
---|---|
Mito.money | Please app{} |
Intention: | use visual editor |
Steps to Reproduce: | Firefox nightly + chromium
agents: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:29.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/29.0 Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/31.0.1650.63 Safari/537.36 also Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:25.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/25.0 Iceweasel/25.0 |
Results: | no visual editor |
Expectations: | it worked before |
Page where the issue occurs | |
Web browser | see above |
Operating system | Linux amd64 debian sid |
Skin | vector, removed my userstyles.css that worked with visual editor to make sure |
Notes: | |
Workaround or suggested solution |
Scientus ( talk) 01:45, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
As above, I thought it time to give VE another try.
But:
There may be some improvements (the very existence of an attempt to help with Multiple Issues is one, I suppose), but on balance it just doesn't work for the kind of edits I do. I'll look out for news from Bugzilla to tell me it's beginning to be anything like fit for purpose, but today it ain't. Good Luck, but 'Bye for now. Pam D 12:10, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
I am still not sure if the new way/layout of adding references (and not only) is good or not. What I know is that on my first try to use it, I don't like it :/
Except of the issue that Pam is mentioning above (
Multiple issues-minimal spaces) which is kind of annoying and not helpful since you can only watch one line of what you are typing, when I click on one parameter, the cursor "jumps" to the one above and I have to click it again to make it go where I want. Even worse, when there is no any parameter above, it takes me back to the beginning. I don't know how to explain that exactly. To reproduce it, try to add a reference to an article. It will show you the box with "source title" and "url" parameters already existing and on the right a list of the rest parameters. Don't choose any of the ones on the right and click on the "source title" to add the title. Can you see what is happening? This "jumping" happens almost every time I click on a parameter on the left to add its context!
And please bring back the big box where we could write each parameter's context and see what we were writing instead of that line. When you have a list of guests to add in an episode is not helpful at all! FF26 Windows 8
TeamGale 17:05, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
Hi.
VisualEditor has turned into a powerful tool. One that I'd consider very seriously. Powerful but not reliable. Everytime I make an edit with VisualEditor, there is a chance that my changes are not saved and I receive an "Unknown Error".
Best regards,
Codename Lisa (
talk) 18:43, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
This page is an archive. Do not edit the contents of this page. Please direct any additional comments to the current main page. |
I did a lot of work using VE a few months ago and reported carefully many bugs and problems. I didn't use it much for the last couple of months - too much going on in Real Life - but I've just had a little look and note that most of the early problems I found are still problems. I can easily find bug numbers for some of them so will list those here now:
They're all things which just made my kind of wikignoming edits much more hard work - stub-sorting, fixing dab pages (which links are red?), adding categories and stub tags (need to be able to look at the article content which is hidden by the dialogue box), leaving or reading useful hidden comments for editors, leaving a helpful edit summary.
It's sad to see so much effort having been wasted, but unless most of those bugs get fixed I'm unlikely to come back to using VE. Pam D 07:48, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
Why does VE automatically add a "=" at the end of a parameter? In this edit, the editor adds "October 2013" incorrectly as parameter to a template. VE changes this automatically to "October 2013 = ". Sometimes this is desirable, but not always. Some parameters don't need a value, they just need adding. Fram ( talk) 11:58, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
How does an editor make the distinction between named and unnamed parameters in VE (for templates without template data, that is)? Fram ( talk) 06:54, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
No idea whether this is a VE bug or VE highlighting some very strange things in some template or hidden comment or whatever (or, probably, both), but please compare Yersiniabactin with the article in VE mode. That the infobox becomes unrecognizable, oh well, but what happens with the references? Fram ( talk) 12:27, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
The extra 14 references seem to have gone now (they'll be dearly missed), the malformed infobox is still present. Fram ( talk) 09:20, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
Hello,
The User guide says that it takes a "few seconds" for the VE to open. I find that it takes more like a minute, even for a short article. I use Chrome which is a supported browser, they say, with the vector skin. What am I doing wrong? I've never managed to make an edit in VE. Thanks, Soranoch ( talk) 22:39, 23 October 2013 (UTC)
Hi User:Soranoch, are you using any Chrome extensions, such as 'Kill Evil' ( bugzilla:52008)? John Vandenberg ( chat) 03:39, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
No idea how the editor achieved this, but I don't think that VE should ever introduce a <br> inside a header: [1]. I tried to do the same, but got suddenly an empty header with a nowiki in instead [2], which shouldn't have happened as well (I selected header and section, ctrl-X, and psated it in front of the "Philosophy of Science" header. Note that I didn't get the "nowiki" error warning either. Note also that opening and saving take way too long. Fram ( talk) 14:52, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
I'm trying to select one template, but get unexpected results. If you go to Karl Popper, put the cursor at the start of th header "Backdrop to his thought", and use the left side "caps arrow" plus the up-arrow from the four direction arrows (to select the line above it), the first time you do this, your cursor disappears. The second time, you select everything including half a line of the paragraph above the "philosophy" section header, the philosophy section header, and the "main" template. This is rather unexpected.
Similarly, only using the "up" arrow, starting again at the same place: first time, the cursor seems to disappear (looking more closely, it stands at the right side of the infobox, at the height of the "main article" template. Using it again movs it to the middle of the last line of the previous paragraph, skipping the template and the "philosophy" section header.
The reverse is even worse. Starting from the paragraph above the "philosophy" header and using the "down" arrow, your cursor moves to the end of the "philosophy" header (good!); using "down" again, it moves to the right of the infobox (at the same line as the "main article" template) (not good, perhaps acceptable); using down again, and again, and again, does absoluetly nothing anymore...
Stranger and stranger: going from the "philosophy" header using the right button works like a charm. If you then start using the "up" arrow though, you are no longer scrollong inside the text, but yo uare scrolling the whole webpage instead... I stopped testing after this, having had more than enough of this!
Basically, the use of arrows in VE shows some very bizarre behaviour and should be thoroughly tested and bugfixed. Fram ( talk) 15:02, 25 October 2013 (UTC)
I am just doing some dab relinking and besides the script marking disambiguation pages not working I also noticed for the first time that non existing pages have still blue links in the edit view, which is quiet disturbing because I tend to open them in new tabs to see if they help me find the right target for the link I am working on.-- Saehrimnir ( talk) 16:41, 26 October 2013 (UTC)
Hello. I wanted to tell you that the engineering department is hosting two office hours this week to discuss VisualEditor. The first of these will be held on Saturday, 2 November, at 1700 UTC; the second will be held some hours later, you can check local time and connect here. Please join as Product Manager James Forrester discusses VisualEditor and upcoming plans. Logs will be posted on meta after each office hour completes. (If office hours are heavily attended, it can be difficult to get to all questions, but if you want to ask a question and cannot attend, please let us know your question here by Friday and we will present it among possible discussion topics.)
Thanks! -- Elitre (WMF) ( talk) 09:46, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
VE can now edit files, categories, and Help pages. But at Preferences, at the Editing tab, this is still the language:
-- John Broughton (♫♫) 16:19, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
When editing with VE in the category namespace, the lists of subcategories and pages in the category disappear... not very WYSIWYG, and not what happens when you use Preview in source editor. I know that you won't be able to edit the listings from the category page, but they should still appear, with green stripes over it or something. (I am using Vector / Chrome v30 / Windows 7) - Evad37 ( talk) 01:10, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
It seems extra space appears in VE between the text from a cite template and any text following the template text when that text takes multiple lines, e.g., at United States#Bibliography. Other strangeness with the bullet placements seems to appear as well. FF 24 Win 7-- Atethnekos ( Discussion, Contributions) 03:57, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
Just doing my daily routine of minor fixes i noticed, that VisualEditor seems to ignore the watchlist preference "Add pages and files I edit to my watchlist" and always has "add to watchlist" active by default in the Save window. The checkbox status should depend on the preference setting and un-check the watchlist checkbox, when the preference is not active. (A quick bug search for "watchlist" did not reveal any old related bugs). OS is Windows XP with FF, vector skin active. GermanJoe ( talk) 09:35, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
Now that it's possible to edit files in VE, I couldn't help but try it of course. File:Ambox warning orange.svg gives me some strange results though. First, it seems to be impossible to select the green padlock symbol, which is buried beneath the "keep local" template. Looking further indicates that the padlock is part of that template, but because of the way the blue template box is shown (with a slightly wider blue box at the level of the padlock), I was fooled here.
Second, the text "(Automatically detected[...]" starts one tab removed from the left border. This is caused by a ":" in the text. It seems to be impossible to change this in VE though? Fram ( talk) 09:52, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
I think I've seen this one recently in the "solved bugs" section, but it seems to be not completely solved. Sadly, I can't give you the exact circumstances in which it happens. I was editing in VE Yersinia pseudotuberculosis, but left it open and did some other things (VE and non-VE). Coming back a few minutes later to the open article, I can no longer use the "Save" button, even if I make new changes to it (the undo button work, so VE "known" that I have mdae changes). I tried to get the same result with other articles, but so far I haven't been able to reproduce it (which makes it hard for you to solve). If I encounter it again, or anyone else has the same problem, then perhaps some useful case may be created... Fram ( talk) 09:59, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
Ah, I have been able to reproduce it.
Tried it on Albert I of Belgium as well, and got the same result. Fram ( talk) 10:07, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
Recently, I made a post about unnecessary changes in ref names (adding quotes and spaces) through VE. Apparently the same happens with other things as well, e.g. here a lot of "colspan" statements are "tidied" by VE, adding spaces before and after, even though these achieve nothing and only dirty the diff. Fram ( talk) 10:25, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
There are some old issues mentioned before (now in the archives) but they still seem to be effective, should I repost them here? -- Atethnekos ( Discussion, Contributions) 18:51, 29 October 2013 (UTC)
The nowiki shouldn't have been added in the first place, but that's a known problem. But why does it remain here [4]? Fram ( talk) 15:39, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
Hi,
I'd like to suggest an improvement for VE: since it's quite easy for a new editor to delete a <references/> tag without noticing, that would be nice if VE prevented saving such error (or at least put a warning) when the article was ok before editing and damaged after editing (error message displayed in the article). -- NicoV ( Talk on frwiki) 16:05, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
{{cite book |page=417 |quote="Lorem dolor sit amet..." |author= Baron-Cohen S |authorlink= Simon Baron-Cohen |chapter= The evolution of brain mechanisms for social behavior |title= Foundations of Evolutionary Psychology |editor= Crawford C, Krebs D (eds.) |publisher= Lawrence Erlbaum |date=2008 |isbn=978-0-8058-5956-0}}
I just worked on a page and had a problem (reported above). So, I used the feedback option. I have two issues with that option. First, it is not clear that the feedback will be posted with-out (at least as far as I can see) any indication of what site the editor is on when s/he fills out the form. I had assumed that that information would be included automatically ( like in some discussion articles on requests for deletion etc.). Since /If it isn't, the editor fling the feedback should be given a heads up, since viewing the specific site is often needed for others to understand the problem, and the editor might not come back for a while or might have edited a lot of sites and not remember which one had the problem. Second, after completing the feedback and sending it, I was still on the VE page, but I cannot save the page (the button is light green and inactive). It seems the only way to exit is to cancel, losing any changes I might have made (actually, after writing the feedback, I don't remember if any of my changes were made in that session, so it's possible, there are no changes to be lost, but still....) Kdammers ( talk) 02:13, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
So the story is that the feedback tool is not specific to VisualEditor. The only thing that VisualEditor has any control over is the link (to this page). But James A is going to see whether it's possible to get the rest of the text clarified for everyone, which would obviously include us, too. Whatamidoing (WMF) ( talk) 22:58, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
I use VE once in a while for simple edits. Today I made
this edit to add quotation marks for song titles and used the edit summary "added quotation marks". When I checked my edit after saving, I was surprised to see that VE correctly added some additional quotation marks in <ref name>
tags, but was happy it was consistent with my edit summary. :-)
GoingBatty (
talk) 00:45, 11 November 2013 (UTC)
I think this was noted a few months ago, but bringing it back to make sure won't hurt. In Flags of counties of the United States, there are references inside galleries (which isn't uncommon). In VE, you get big red "Cite error" notices for these. Fram ( talk) 14:58, 12 November 2013 (UTC)
Can anyone confirm this for me?
I ran into this over at office.wikimedia, but office is also running MediaWiki version 1.23wmf3 (2ac963d), so it should behave the same here. I particularly want to know whether this is a Mac/Safari/Vector issue, or if it also happens elsewhere. Thanks, Whatamidoing (WMF) ( talk) 20:21, 14 November 2013 (UTC)
Pages like Bethesda Athletic F.C. don't look so good in VE. The infobox gets mangled. The same happens to more well-known clubs like Manchester United F.C., so I assume that every single club page has the same problem. The template football kit is used on nearly 25,000 pages... Fram ( talk) 15:10, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
Just tried out VisualEditor for the first time on ATV: Quad Frenzy - I was amazed, this really does look like the future. This will engender a massively improved user experience, I could honestly see this having a relatively large affect on editor retention. One piece of constructive criticism that prevents me from switching fully to VE is this - it has no ability (I believe) to integrate with the current reference gadget I use - it is one the far right of my editing toolbar, and is two {{ brackets on top of CITE, and two more }} brackets beneath that. This is a tool I use constantly when creating content and immeasurably useful, so to not be able to use it is in my view, the hamartia of VisualEditor at the moment. Would you consider integrating it? Keep up the amazing work! Acather96 ( click here to contact me) 19:39, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
I looked the feedback page and I can't find if someone mentioned that. I don't know if it was mentioned before and it was archived but I think it's new. When I try to add a reference that already exists I can't see the list of them. I mean, when I was clicking to "choose an existing reference" in the past, I could read the whole references content. Now when I do that, I can only see the numbers of the references and not their content. To find which reference I need, I have to get out of the window, find it on the main text and see its number so I can choose it. I don't know if it has to do anything with it but, I feel like after the last VE update few days ago (last Thursday), some things got messed up :( TeamGale 23:03, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
When editing KLM, when I hit save page I got Error:Unknown error below the edit summary box and a greyed out save page button. However, the edit still saved without any indication that it did so. I actually went to save the page again, not thinking that it had done anything, but luckily checked the history and canceled before it could save (Monobook, Firefox 25, Windows 7):Jay8g [ V• T• E 19:40, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
So, what do you consider the main remaining missing or poorly working aspects of VE? I'll list a few I think of right now, feel free to add your own (I'm bound to froget some very common ones). It may give an indication of where the most urgent problems are situated and which things shouldn't be forgotten... Fram ( talk) 15:34, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
[[Example]]
to be a link to that article and when I mean for that to be something else: perhaps an explanation of how to use wikicode to make a link (e.g., on dozens of Help: pages), or perhaps part of a direct quotation, or perhaps when I'm merely adding it for decorative value (e.g., as ASCII art, like [[-]]-[[-]]-[[-]]-[[-]]
). In the mainspace, here at the Wikipedias, an experienced editor who types double-square brackets almost always means for that to be a link. But outside of encyclopedia articles, or if the user is less experienced, it is
much harder to guess what the actual intent is.
Whatamidoing (WMF) (
talk) 22:38, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
Elitre, you reference Erik Moeller above, who said "We're listening, but in this case we're saying no, and that decision is final. We can elaborate a bit more on the why if that helps, but parsing wikitext in VisualEditor is absolutely not going to happen.". Well, yes, a lot of elaboration would be welcome. Who is the "we" that is saying "no"? The devs? The Foundation? Erik solo? A cross-wiki RfC to see what the editors actually want? "That decision is final". Why? Consensus can change, people can come to new conclusions based on actual experience, needs can be greater than anticipated, ... So why is this "final"? "Elaborate a bit more on the why" is very cynical, as I have not seen any "why" so far, so elaborating more on it is hardly possible. Just start by giving us the why, and what that why is based on, and who made that decision. @ Eloquence:. Fram ( talk) 08:03, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
Opening Cat in VE (FF25, W7) opens the edit notice. Due to the very small box, I can not see the whole edit notice though, and it is apparently impossible to scroll down in it or to it. Furthermore, the functionality it had in wikitext editing (click "show" to display the long text) doesn't work in VE, it is automatically shown and no show-hide button is available. The two big red lines of text also partially overlap, again due to the small window of the page notice (WMF devs seems to like small windows, see also Flow...). Fram ( talk) 08:41, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
If you missed Maggie Dennis' announcement on wikimedia-l, please see my message here. See you there, -- Elitre (WMF) ( talk) 15:29, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
(No harm reproducing date/time in multiple venues - much better than forcing the clicking of a link.) Risker ( talk) 15:50, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
Articles like Sainte-Croix-sur-Mer take very, very long to open in VE (although, probably due to caching, it goes a lot faster on a second try), and have troubles displaying their contents correctly in VE.
In the infobox, the red dots that show where the subject is located on the maps, are totally off.
It is also rather annoying that some templates take up much more "blue" (selected) space than actual space. This is most obvious with the (invisible!) "clear-left" template (beneath the "historical populations" template)
This made me also realise another problem with VE. Imagine that you find the population figures for 1932, and want to add them to the hist pop template. In wikitext, this is very easy. In VE, this is extremely laborious in comparison. Not user friendly at all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fram ( talk • contribs) 2013-11-15T14:28:57
"I'm not sure that it's entirely reasonable for VisualEditor to process that code, though." The template "infobox settlement" is transcluded more than 400,000 times, i.e. this is used on ca 1 in 10 of our articles, as a major visual aspect of it. The template football kit (below), which may have the same or a very similar issue, is used on an additional 25,000 pages. Template chembox, used on nearly 10,000 additional pages, same problem. Not enough? Template taxobox, used on yet another distinct group of 234,000 pages, has the same problem as well... I think it is entirely reasonable to expect a VisualEditor to process our most often used, very prominent templates correctly on an essential visual aspect of them. If that means redesigning the templates, the some VE devs can come over and fix it as far as I am concerned. But simply accepting that these templates will not be rendered correctly in VE is (once again) throwing the arms up in defeat and admitting that VE will never deliver what it set out to do. Fram ( talk) 08:27, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
And while we're at it, you may add the 45,000 transclusions of Template:Infobox NRHP as well. Fram ( talk) 10:55, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
If I'm double counting somehow, please correct me, but otherwise you may add to the above another 146,000 instances of Template:Location map... I think personally that it is entrely reasonable to expect a VisualEditor to correctly precess visual elements used on 1/5th of the Wikipedia articles if it wants to be taken seriously, but YMMV. Fram ( talk) 12:55, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
Is there any update about this bug? It's been almost a month since it was reported and I don't see any difference. Thank you TeamGale 06:46, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
Say I want to make:
[w]
How would I do this simply in VE? Whenever I select the template and go to the link inspector, after I type in the destination for the link and leave the inspector, it inserts a new anchor with the same text as the destination. The work around I found was to type text on either side of the template, and then select all of that text and the template, and then turn that into the link, and then afterwards delete the unneeded text. Is that the optimal way? Firefox 25.0.1; Windows 7 Professional SP1 64-bit; Monobook skin.--
Atethnekos (
Discussion,
Contributions) 07:10, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
I just added two references to an article on Clarence Mulford that had no references. When I finally got them in, the VE announced that I didn't have a references list format. No, I didn't, since I was using VE and not wikiedit. There seemed to be no way to add such a thing (and why isn't it automatic in VE?), so I just went into wikiedit and added it. Kdammers ( talk) 14:07, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
I don't know if this is a bug, a quirk, a trait, or a statement by VE; but out of curiosity, I tried to put something into real-world style, i.e., start a paragraph with an indentation. I did this because, aside from the fact that I really dislike the block style, new editors might also try this. What I got was a message that I had made no change, so my "editing" would be abandoned. Interesting. Kdammers ( talk) 02:59, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
Take a page that has only {{ipa|w}} in the source. E.g., [5]. Enter VE. Place cursor after the template. Cursor key left. This selects the template. Cursor left again. Template is deselected and cursor is placed to the left of the template, at the start of the line. Press "a". A pawn appears and is selected. Firefox 25.0.1; Windows 7 Professional SP1 64-bit; Monobook skin. -- Atethnekos ( Discussion, Contributions) 07:18, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
Testing this (FF25, W7, Vector) in live articles with IPA, I get the same and different (but probably related) issues. First, I get the "reverse typing" bug frighteningly easy. Go to Hanki, put your cursor somewhere after the IPA template, move back with the arrows until you select the IPA and then once more, and start typing... Opposite works as well, cursor in front of IPA, right, right (so the cursor is after the IPA, and start typing backwards! Try again: cursor in front of IPA, move right (with arrow) beyong the IPA until the cursor is just in front of the first wikilink (village) (or any other wikilink in the article). Start typing, and you get a pawn. You can get other amusing effects by testing different situations (like a case where you can type one character, and the second and all following ones are again pawns), but I don't think listing these will help in pinpointing and solving this (old) problem.
It is also not restricted to IPA, it seems that any template can cause this issue. On Selan (Dungeons & Dragons), put your cursor at the start of the text (ie before "In the..."), arrow left (select infobox), arrow left (deselect infobox), start typing; pawn! If, on the other hand, you use arrow left (select infobox), arrow right (nothing, a bug in its own right), arrow right (cursor is in front of "In the..."), start typing, you again start typing backwards. On refs, I get the reverse; the backwards typing happens when I end in front of the ref number, the pawn happens when I start typing to the right of the reference (a always, after selecting and deselecting it using the arrows). Fram ( talk) 09:50, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
I have created a new issue for this, since it doesn't seem to match any of the more specific "fixed" ones. Fram ( talk) 10:36, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
Take a page with:
#One
#
#Two
In view mode this appears something like:
In VE it appears something like:
Firefox 25.0.1; Windows 7 Professional SP1 64-bit; Monobook skin. -- Atethnekos ( Discussion, Contributions) 06:07, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
This listing on Buzilla says "RESOLVED FIXED" for its status.
If I go to Plato, enter VE, right click, select all, and then press some letter or number, a pawn will appear. Also, if I review changes, there is still material left is the "your text" section. Firefox 25.0.1; Windows 7 Professional SP1 64-bit; Monobook skin. -- Atethnekos ( Discussion, Contributions) 06:37, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
Hi,
Seasons greetings.At Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical) we are discussig Wikipedia_referencing_and_citations, avanues_for_more_help and request for comment.
Rgds
Mahitgar ( talk) 10:20, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
So now you can switch from VE to the text editor to change tables or image galleries. Does this mean such things will not be supported in the future? Or does it mean a general abandonment of VE for all but simple text? Konveyor Belt 18:58, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
I noted some weeks ago that some navboxes disappear when you try to move them in VE. I can add now that the "authority control" template has the same problem (disappears after moving, "save button" freezes after you have reviewed that change). Tested on David B. Feinberg. Fram ( talk) 10:04, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
Oh, and stub templates as well apparently! Tested on Tessie Santiago.
And succession boxes. Tested on Gennady Golovkin. Fram ( talk) 13:18, 15 November 2013 (UTC)
I imagine that in several months, or in over a year, I'm not sure, VE will be deployed again on the English Wikipedia. When I have it enabled in my preferences I see "edit source" vs. "edit beta". Can this be changed? Why can't we have "edit" and "edit visual" when it comes back out? Biosthmors ( talk) pls notify me (i.e. {{ U}}) while signing a reply, thx 14:56, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
VisualEditor newsletter for November 2013: " An incompatibility between VisualEditor and the deployed Parsoid service that prevented editing categories and language links was fixed." Really? So the message on the "language" dropdown menu, "This is a list of pages in other languages that are linked to this one; for now, it can only be edited in source mode.", or the fact that indeed these languages can't be changed in VE, is a myth? Glad that is solved then... Fram ( talk) 10:14, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
Hi,
Just for info.
Rgds
Hi. The change review window is too small. It helps me spot accidental edits which might not be visible in the WYSIWYG view but I have to struggle a lot with it. Best regards, Codename Lisa ( talk) 16:14, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
oo-ui-window-frame-small
is set to retain a maximum width and height of 600×400, which is a small subset of .oo-ui-dialog .oo-ui-window-frame
which enforces a maximum dimension of 800×600. Both are too small in comparison to the source mode's review screen that sports a vertically expansible 1358×475 and gets larger with my monitor.width
, max-width
and max-height
properties in both selectors and get a comfy 1581x716 scrolling window which is very lovely. Try it! You'll love it!
Hi. If a feature does not work with a certain web browser, please have the code detect that browser and disable the broken feature by graying it out.
Best regards, Codename Lisa ( talk) 16:17, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
If I go to Sentinelese language, enter VE, I see four "↵" characters at the bottom of the page. If I select them, and then press delete, they disappear. However, when I go to save and review changes I get the message "Could not start the review because your revision matches the latest version of this page." Firefox 25.0.1; Windows 7 Professional SP1 64-bit; Monobook skin. -- Atethnekos ( Discussion, Contributions) 01:08, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
The easiest in VE I found to change an image that's not a thumb into an image that is a thumb (e.g., [[File:Philbar.png]] into [[File:Philbar.png|thumb]] was to resize the image, then go to save and review changes, then I can see the file name for the image, then I go through the regular method of inserting an image now that I have the file name, and it inserts it as a thumb, and then I delete the old, non-thumb image. Is this the easiest way? Firefox 25.0.1; Windows 7 Professional SP1 64-bit; Monobook skin.-- Atethnekos ( Discussion, Contributions) 01:33, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
I'm trying to use the visual editor to mark at numeric field with an tag so that the column sort works properly. I can see the nts transclusion pop up for existing entries but I don't see how to add the same tag to a new entry in the table. There is an option to add a new template but I want to pick an existing template. Is this feature missing or am I missing something? Robertbaertsch ( talk) 13:22, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
Both the notice on first opening VE ("You can keep using the wikitext editor by clicking the "Edit source" tab instead – unsaved changes will be lost.") and the wikitext warning ("Click "Edit source" to edit the page in wikitext mode – unsaved changes will be lost.") need to be changed to reference the newly added ability to switch to the source editor without losing unsaved changes:Jay8g [ V• T• E 05:09, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
I had noticed that (in Firefox) and was going to make a note about it, but I guess I forgot:Jay8g [ V• T• E 20:00, 8 November 2013 (UTC)
I went to make a simple edit (addition of one word before a blue link) in Osteon, using VE (Firefox/ME7). I wanted to check if the blue-link article (I believe it is 'cortical bone') also needed the edit. After I moused over the blue-link and got a pop-up, I could not do any-thing after that. I couldn't close the pop-up; I couldn't type in the article text; I couldn't save; I couldn't exit. The only way out was to close with-out saving. Kdammers ( talk) 06:54, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
When using the Category dialog I added "Category:Computer humor", which was accepted and caused the page to translate into " Category:Category:Computer humor. Preferably the template would automatically detect the use of a "Category:" tag and remove it. Nicereddy ( talk) 23:47, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
If this is meant to be used by the layman, "Transclusion" isn't a good term for the option of adding a template. Is there an explanation for the word chosen? Nicereddy ( talk) 00:47, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
When highlighting text in the Visual Editor, if you right click editing of the page could be sped up further by opening the toolbar when right clicking on that text. For example, if I were to highlight text and then right click on said highlighted text a (modified?) version of the toolbar would appear above/next to the text highlighted. This would allow for faster editing without requiring the user moves their mouse across the screen. While I realize this is possible with keyboard commands, it may be preferable for many users.
Similarly, using the right click on any section of the page, regardless of whether or not any text is highlighted, the toolbar would show up as a dialog which would allow for easier use of its various functions. Nicereddy ( talk) 00:51, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
We can now also edit Help pages with VE. This seems to work for some pages, if anyone would need it (you know, those people that need to edit help pages but don't know wikitext sufficiently to be editing them directly, a very elusive group indeed); but don't try it with Help:WikiHiero syntax, it has caused FF25 (on W7) to crash twice in two tests. Can someone confirm this, and does it happen with other (help) pages as well? Fram ( talk) 14:34, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
I've reported several examples of categories moved by VE into ref tags in frwiki: Indicateur de développement durable, Famille de Montesquiou, Dan Flavin. -- NicoV ( Talk on frwiki) 09:51, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
Ralph Day; reference 1 and 3 are not editable in VE. You can open the edit ref box and change them, but you can't see what is actually there at the moment. The same applies in a different way to Gordon Guasco, which has a bare URL, but not as a ref but as an external link. Not editable... Cecilia Östlund has one not as a ref or external link, but in the text. We have currently over 2,000 pages tagged with Template:Cleanup-bare URLs, and many more that don't have the template but that have bare URLs nevertheless (e.g. my examples). Fram ( talk) 09:26, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
Please, add "Find and Replace" function to Visual Editor -- Xusinboy Bekchanov ( talk) 21:02, 1 December 2013 (UTC).
Impossible to do so, Notifications seemed all at once in the current project? -- Xusinboy Bekchanov ( talk) 05:15, 3 December 2013 (UTC).
The {{ tl}} template doesn't display anything when editing a page in VE. Not really a problem for articles, but is definitely a problem for help pages. For example, look at the "Aliases" section of Help:Template in VE. I'm using Vector/Chrome/Win7. - Evad37 [ talk 06:22, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
Just installed IE11 and decided to check out Visual Editor (according to Wikipedia:VisualEditor, "Internet Explorer 11 users are currently able to use VE", though the message when you actually try to use it "You are using a browser which is not officially supported by VisualEditor" gives a slightly different impression).
Most pages do not load at all, at least within my patience span. The "progress bar" keeps churning around but nothing happens. I managed to get the edit screen up for a three-line article, but when I typed a character and then hit backspace the whole paragraph disappeared and was irretrievable with "Undo". The same happened with "Delete": the whole paragraph is irretrievably deleted. Then I put the cursor on the end of a line and hit "Enter" to create a new paragraph but nothing happened.
Then I highlighted some text and clicked the "bold" button and again the paragraph disappeared. Same with "italic". Sometimes, instead of the paragraph disappearing, nothing happened.
So, basically, the first most trivially simple editing tasks that I tried all failed spectacularly. I assume that either the message "Internet Explorer 11 users are currently able to use VE" has been put up in error, or there is some local configuration issue or other local problem with my setup. 86.129.17.245 ( talk) 23:51, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
VE sometimes changes things unrelated to your actual edit. Perhaps there is a good reason for this, I don't know, but it is rather surprising and not always beneficial.
I noticed the addition of "nowikis" here? The initial problem is not VE related, in an earlier edit someone removed the first curly bracket from the Persondata template. But when testing this, I noticed that VEacts strange here: if you start at the same version as the linked edit above (i.e. here), then without making any changes, you see that "review changes" displays again the | instead of the nowikis. Now, if you change anything in the article (e.g. adding a comma after "2010"), and you again use "review changes", you'll note that the | in the persondata template are no longer shown. This means that whatever you change in the article, the "|" gets removed (not just included in nowikis, but completely removed). This seems to be unwanted behaviour. Fram ( talk) 11:11, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
I wanted to add the names of some articles I recently created to a list I keep, and hovering over the /!\ symbol near the top shows "1 notice." What notice is it talking about? 28bytes ( talk) 01:46, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
VE now works for portal space (which was hardly a priority, but anyway...). Looking at e.g. Portal:Current events, you start with an edit notice that isn't valid in VE (you can't paste the code given there in VE and expect it to work). Apart from that, there is very little I can do here, as the page exists of other subpages. So I look at the subpages, e.g. Portal:Current events/News Browser. Hmm, not a lot I can do here... Oh, I can move the documentation above the globe bar, instead of below it. This is fun! Luckily I use preview and know some wikicode before I save this, because moving the documentation moves it from inside "noinclude" to outside "noinclude" tags, creating a totally different result. Useful!
Another subpage is Portal:Current events/2013 November 26. In wikitext editing, you start with a full screen of notes and warnings; none of these is visible in VE though. Then again, you can't do anything here either with VE, even though the contents are here, not on another subpage! So, while this technically seems to work, the actual usefulness of this (and need for it) seem to be absolutely minimal.
But it also works for Books! Why? No one knows... Looking at e.g. Book:American comic strips before 1918, in VE it starts with messing up the header, as it is unable to show the links in it correctly... Considering that this header is used in every single book, this again is a rather clear test fail, as usual. Apart from that, the basic features seem to work. Well, until you try them, that is. In VE editing mode, the new line I added as a test was properly indented with the other items, but on saving, it was left aligned, with no possibility to get it aligned with the rest of the items [6]. Seeing that this is the standard layout used by many books (e.g. Book:Adele or Book:Mathematics), this means that no, we can't use VE to create or properly maintain Books. So the point of the announcement in Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Updates/November 20, 2013 totally escapes me, unless the meaning is "we are wasting time on useless aspects of VE, instead of fixing the many truly necessary but buggy ones". Luckily, by not testing these changes properly, you are not wasting too much of your time. Small blessings. Fram ( talk) 12:57, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
When I edit Keith Murray (rapper) in VE, open the infobox, and look at the parameters on the right side, I notice strange boxes to the right of the parameter names, sometimes light gray, sometimes dark gray, without any possibility to select them, without any explanation, and without any apparent logic. Sometime sthe dark gray box is the same as the parameter name (Landscape), sometimes it is something different (Image caption), and sometimes it is missing completely (native name). Sometimes there are two of them (Website).
When I start typing parameter names, I get strange results (e.g. typing "Website" gives a different result from selecting Website, even though they look the same in the parameters list) I presume the boxes indicate acceptable parameter names, but this is not clear at all, and I am still struggling to see any difference between what's in the white and gray boxes. Fram ( talk) 10:33, 4 December 2013 (UTC)
When adding a category to a page using the VisualEditor it doesn't show the new category at the bottom of the article after pressing "Save page". The category is added, but you have to refresh the page to see the change. Nicereddy ( talk) 01:13, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
I was updating cost/kg LEO values in the table on this page. /info/en/?search=Comparison_of_orbital_launch_systems
I got it to work but it required quite a bit of trial and error. In order to add one number you need to add a transclusion tag, enter nts, add a parameter with the name "1", then enter the number into the text box. Could this be made easier. What does "nts" stand for? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Robertbaertsch ( talk • contribs) 22:53, 7 December 2013
I tried to create a new article TWICE but I wasn't able to save it!! The first time I clicked "Preview your changes" to take a look of it (I always do that) but the page kept loading and loading with no result! When I took the decision that nothing was going to happen, I said to give it one more try and start all over again. The second time around I skipped the "preview your changes" and I went straight to the "save"! Again the same thing happened! I left it like that for 20min hoping that it will be saved but nothing! It kept loading and loading! I faced the same issue with the previous article I created but the second time that one was saved and I thought that I just spent to much time to finish it because I left it open for a while and then came back to finish! But this time it was not the case! I am not willing to spend another 1-2hours to try for a third time! If this is a bug please fix it! I lost my work twice and till this gets solved I am not willing to take any risks again to create a page with VE and that makes me really sad because even though I can use the source to create a page with VE is so much easier! I am using Firefox 25, Windows 8. TeamGale 09:05, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
TeamGale, VE isn't intended to really create new pages, use images, use references, use templates, use wikitext, use ... well, anything apparently. You can use it to make some cosmetic or minor changes, but for anything slightly more complicated, you just have to be very lucky to be able to proceed correctly with it. This is intended to welcome new editors, increase editor retention, and keep Bugzilla filled until eternity. The only people really happy with Ve seem to be the people that developed it, I guess that their technical end-of-year target has been met, doesn't matter if anyone uses it or is satisfied with it. It now has been live on enwiki for nearly half a year and we are still at the most basic errors stage, which isn't surprising since the software isn't being tested in any significant way before being deployed. Happy editing! Fram ( talk) 08:20, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
I see. Thanks for clarifying and explaining. That means everything will be OK now? If it happens again I'll let you know. Thanks again :) TeamGale 23:58, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
Any updates of what might be going on? TeamGale 12:16, 2 December 2013 (UTC)
Gabriel Wicke Ssastry I read the threads you linked and that was the same answer I got the first time I reported it. The only thing is that in my case...I do NOT get any error mistake OR my edit saved! And it never happened to me on wiki text, only on VE. Sorry if I am getting repetitive but, what I get is a loading bar...loading forever (I left it up to 20min) and nothing happens!! NO error...NO save!!! If it would save it it would be great but it doesn't! And the whole work is lost! Is that the same thing as the problem you mentioned? It seems different to me... TeamGale 23:57, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
Bug report | VisualEditor |
---|---|
Mito.money | Please app{} |
Intention: | Edit a page without adding it to my watchlist |
Steps to Reproduce: | #Clicked "edit - beta"
This is reproduceable |
Results: | I accidentally added many pages to my watchlist. |
Expectations: | Since the "Add pages and files I edit to my watchlist" checkbox in my Preferences is unchecked, I expect the "Watch this page" box to also be unchecked for pages not already on my watchlist, like the regular editor does. |
Page where the issue occurs | en.wikipedia.org |
Web browser | Firefox 25.0.1 |
Operating system | Windows 7 |
Skin | Vector |
Notes: | |
Workaround or suggested solution | Notice that the "Watch this page" box is checked and uncheck it, or go back to the regular editor |
GoingBatty ( talk) 03:54, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
I reported this bug a while ago that its status says "RESOLVED DUPLICATE of bug". The duplicated bug says "resolved fixed" but that's not true. I still encounter with the specific problem about the usage of existing references. TeamGale 06:42, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
Sometimes, if I add a space after a reference, a chess pawn will show up. It usually happens if there is a line of text after a reference that I am working with.-- ¿3fam ily6 contribs 16:08, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
Bug report | VisualEditor |
---|---|
Mito.money | Please app{} |
Intention: | I just wanted to edit an article and realized that numbering of in-text references changes when I click the edit button. |
Steps to Reproduce: | # Go to
https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=André-Joseph_Léonard&oldid=585652876
Reproducable by following the steps above. |
Results: | Statements in the edited text seem to be related to other sources than they actually are. |
Expectations: | Numbering stays the same in view and edit mode. |
Page where the issue occurs | /info/en/?search=Andr%C3%A9-Joseph_L%C3%A9onard vs. /info/en/?search=Andr%C3%A9-Joseph_L%C3%A9onard?veaction=edit |
Web browser | Firefox 25.0 |
Operating system | Ubuntu GNOME 13.10 |
Skin | Vector |
Notes: | |
Workaround or suggested solution |
Blahma ( talk) 22:54, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
AT the article on Metropolitan (magazine), there is a section with a short list of famous contributors. They didn't seem to be any any particular order, so I tried to put them in alphabetical order using C&P in VE (Windows 7/Mozilla). The square bullets got left hanging, and then after about the fourth shift, when I cut Jack London and tried to paste him, he was gone. I could not paste that line, nor could I step back to see ti. Then when I tried some-thing else, the whole thing went kaploohey, with only one item left in the list, and that with two bullets. I could not step backward. So I gave up. I'll use the source editor. But I seem to recall having had a problem with modifying lists using VE before. Is any-one working on this problem? Kdammers ( talk) 08:03, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
Can we enable VE on talk pages, or maybe create a userscript for it? Rezonansowy ( talk • contribs) 21:02, 13 December 2013 (UTC)
?veaction=edit
to the end of the URL. Feel free to click on that button. But I do not think that the button created by your userscript will do anything when you click on it.Bug report | VisualEditor |
---|---|
Mito.money | Please app{} |
Intention: | I was trying to add indent to a paragraph in the visual editor |
Steps to Reproduce: | Try to indent a paragraph on /info/en/?search=Proof_by_infinite_descent?veaction=edit |
Results: | Nothing; cannot use tab to indent and the buttons are greyed out |
Expectations: | For indentation to work |
Page where the issue occurs | /info/en/?search=Proof_by_infinite_descent?veaction=edit |
Web browser | Chrome version 31.0.1650.63 m |
Operating system | Windows 7 |
Skin | Standard |
Notes: | SS: http://i.imgur.com/FH6sTAR.png |
Workaround or suggested solution |
DeathOfBalance ( talk) 16:30, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
Why bother? Testing isn't done by the WMF devs, reports of failures and errors get no, evasive, or wrong answers, bugzilla reports get closed prematurely and incorrectly all the time. Do the people at WMF really want help? They really need help, that has been shown over and over again, but the only ones that don't seem to have gotten the message seem to be working at (or at least being payed by) WMF.
I have described at length what I tested and encountered wrt the supposedly fixed bug 41193, the major aspect of the upcoming untested VE release, in Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback#Rich content?. Replies?
Bugzilla:
With my apologies to the few WMF people involved in this who try their hardest to be user friendly (Elitre comes to mind), but in general, you are not worth the money the WMF (i.e. the Wikipedia readers) spends on you, nor the time lost on you. That the initial release of VE was a catastrophe was bad; but that the repeated fiasco's since then have not learned you anything, and that all your promises to the contrary have been shown to be pure bluster, is much worse. Fram ( talk) 13:06, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
The saga continues:
I supppose that, since the deployment is dependent on this bug being fixed (it was the first and most important of the bugs listed in the status report), it has to be closed at all costs. Deadlines being more important than getting it right, not for the first time. Fram ( talk) 14:51, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
Let's recap what this magnificent, ready-to-go-live new feature actually can do, since bug 41193 is closed. The bug was to "Support copy and paste from other VE instances". To make it easier, I have only tested this with copies from and to MediaWiki, so different versions of the VE software don't come into play. My tests are done using FF25 and W7 (quite a common combination), we know that there are at least bugs with Safari as well, we have no reports from tests with other combinations.
The above list, obviously, isn't exhaustive...
WMF devs, stop protecting your jobs, your deadlines, your colleagues, your pride, your ass, and admit that this thing sucks extremely big time, and that none of you have done any decent testing on this. Again. As always. Stop this deployment, reopen the bug, and fix the bloody thing until at least most of this works. Just do the job you are being payed for, but don't bother us with your stupid toys until they actually work sporadically. Fram ( talk) 21:28, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
Note that above I have been referred to T35105, which is supposedly the main bug for this feature. After thorough testing and due diligence, what is the latest that Product Manager Jfdorrester thought this bug needed?
James Forrester 2013-12-03 00:51:46 UTC Re-prioritising down, as the main work is now complete. Priority: Highest → Normal
Yep, this feature, where almost nothing works as it should, is no longer of highest or even high priority, but now of "normal" priority, since "the main work is now complete"! I'm glad that has been solved then. I understand that the people claiming that I was disrupting them and keeping them from more importan things when I tested their software are reported bugs, can't be bothered to actually make the bug status reflect reality one tiny bit. It probably isn't included in their job description. Oh wait, that's not correct, the job description is the things they don't do. Fram ( talk) 08:15, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
Update 2013-12-05 (MW 1.23wmf6) (planned for implementation at enwiki and most other wikis), described at mw:VisualEditor/status#2013-12-05 (MW 1.23wmf6), should not be implemented here. Deployed at MediaWiki, I found two serious errors affecting many (all?) users. Furthermore, the most important new feature of it only works so-so as well. I have noted these things at mw:Talk:VisualEditor/status, but replies there tend to be erratic and unwelcoming. Fram ( talk) 14:32, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
VE scrolls down to bottom of the page (confirmed for FF by other editor). This is the one that really confirms my fears about the crap that the WMF (or its VE Product Manager at least) hsa been trying to sell us for months now. The problem: if you open a page in VE, the cursos is nicely at the top, but the image, the thing you see, is the bottom of the page... Totally useless, and totally obvious for every human tester worth his salt. Please remind me, how many times has it been said that yes, everything gets tested by humans, but yes, we will do even better in the future? Bullshit. @ Jdforrester (WMF):, are you trying to defend your team and testers out of some misplaced sense of loyalty, or are you simply incompetent, or worse? How many such failures will you need before you see the light? "Switching to Wikitext, oh, that doesn't work in Firefox" or "Who would have thought that other language wikis would use diacritics and accents?" are just a few weeks old, and now this. The updates can't be trusted, the status reports on them can't be trusted, and the WMF excuses can't be trusted. Do you really believe that this is the way to get enwiki (and nl-wiki and dewiki) to reembrace VE anytime soon? Never mind that, do you really believe that that is the way "agile programming" works and software should be deployed? I have to go and test at MediaWiki (where some WMF people made it very clear that I'm ot really to be trusted or welcome) to prevent these "improvements" to be deployed here. I don't think anyone else is doing this, perhaps because they still believe that the WMF handles this, or (more probably) because they can't be bothered with VE anymore at all. Congratulations! Fram ( talk) 14:32, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
This may well be related to 58089 above (let's hope so). When you are editing the text, and you add a reference or a template, the cursor is not placed at (or better yet behind) the ref or template you inserted, but at the top of the article. The page hasn't scrolled up though, so this isn't really obvious. If you start typing after adding a ref or template, you are editing the start of the article, not the place where you were. How this hasn't been noticed isn't clear, but one rant per post is enough. Fram ( talk) 14:32, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
The new update introduces a long awaited improvement: "You can now paste rich content copied from external sources (not just as plain text), including other VisualEditor surfaces". And indeed, you can, but you shouldn't expect it to work very well... I've done two tests, described at MediaWiki, one from another MediaWiki page, and one from an enwiki page, and both contained immediately obvious errors. My third, more ambitious attempt (still one section only) can be seen at [29]. I think there is still some work to be done before this feature can really be considered to be ready for implementation.
As a final test of this bug, I thought, let's play fair, let's just copy the announcement of this change from the status page to my mediawiki sandbox. Nothng fancy, no cross-wiki copy, just the most basic thing this faeture is supposed to do. [30] is the result. I wonder what kind of "rich content" we are supposed to copy-paste with this, I haven't seen much beyond plain text that works. This was important enough to be put first in the status report, and bolded, and even this sucks big time. Fram ( talk) 14:32, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
I'm still trying to see what works, but the results are not encouraging at all. Copying one simple template from a MediaWiki page [32] to my MediaWiki sandbox gives rather unexpected results. Again, the preview is clearly better than the actual result, e.g. the flower image is visible in the preview, but not in the saved page. [33]
If I take a complex page, like here, you can see a whole array of problems, like links not working, images disappearing, first words of piped links with multiple words messing up things, and so on. The things that should have been tested before announcing that it is ready and closing the bug as resolved-fixed. Note that many of these have now become impossible to easily resolve in VE, e.g. the file definitions are now links which return "undefined" when you click on them, and the language links at the bottom are now no longer accessible. Basically, in all my tests, the only conclusion I can draw is that this works when you use text without any markup (so not "rich text"), and gets progressivley worse the more wikimarkup is present.
I also have the impression that the speed of VE has considerably decreased again with the latest release at MediaWiki, e.g. when opening [34] I get a script error. When choosing "continue", the page opens but (as with other pages at MediaWiki) it renders incorrectly in VE (from "Alter the database" on). Fram ( talk) 13:42, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
@ Jdforrester (WMF):. Why did you reclose bug 41193? Without any comment, changes, replies, anything? You have been shown time and time again that you are wrong, that testing is insufficient (or simply non-existant), that bugs which are closed are not fixed, that bugs which you consider duplicates are not duplicates at all (e.g. bug 57209 discussed below), and so on. Perhaps you had a good reason to close the bug as "resolved fixed", but we can't read your mind. If you close a bug as resolved-fixed, and people report serious problems with it and reopen it, then the least you should do is explain your swift reclosing.
Your job description is "My job is to help make sure the VisualEditor team understands what the community wants and needs, is focussed on the things that matter, and is engaging with and understood by the community." Please start doing your job. Fram ( talk) 08:27, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
Note that the above was removed by Jdforrester [35] with the edit summary " WP:NPA; resolved off-wiki.". The NPA is probably "please start doing your job", which is commenting on his edits (or actions as dev, which is equivalent). Criticisms of failures in your job here are not "personal attacks", just like people complaining about admins abusing their tools are not issuing personal attacks. As for "resolved off-wiki", you probably mean mw:Talk:VisualEditor/status#2013-12-05 (MW 1.23wmf6), where you replied to one minor point which was fixed in the meantime, ignoring (not noticing) the other issues with the first examples I gave there? You were pinged about the longer discussion here (so I presume you had seen it as well), which contained plenty further evidence of problems. Apparently that wasn't sufficient either.
For your (i.e. @ Jdforrester (WMF):s) convenience, I compiled Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback#Who needs bugs when you get "fixes" like this?, which is basically what the WMF devs should have done initially, when they created but before they deployed this "fix"; or failing that, what they should have done when people reported that the fix wasn't ready to be deployed, with some examples. Instead, all you (WMF devs) did was giving incorrect replies, not answering at all, avoiding the issue, and complaining about the tone of the posts, as if that was the most important issue and came out of the blue.
Jdforrester, this started with the two major regressions, something which the most basic testing should have found, about which you said "you're quite right, not sure how this slipped through. :-(" You may have not been quite sure, but it is extremely obvious to me, and probably to everyone who has followed this page for the mast half year: it slipped through because you still don't do any testing worth that name, and it costs you dearly time after time.
Please don't try to claim that the Bug 41193 fix had been tested at any length. If it was tested, and these problems weren't found, fire the testers. If it was tested, the problems were found, but people decided to push the fix through anyway, then fire the people that made this decision. If it wasn't tested, then fire yourself and whoever else is supposed to be responsible there (Erik Moeller and the like) for repeatedly lying to us with rather severe consequences. Fram ( talk) 21:58, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
While apparently the pawns and snowmen errors have been fixed (at first glance) we now get clouds and snowflakes instead. Very seasony, that last one, but unwanted behaviour nevertheless. Here I put in VE a square bracket and then an URL, and I get a snowflake on the next line. Do things in a different order, e.g. first put the URL, and then put the end and front squer brackets, and it works allright. Very strange, and doesn't seem to happen before this new version... Fram ( talk) 10:42, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
[http://example.com
(in that order) and it produced a black cloud with the formatting for a level-2 section heading?
Whatamidoing (WMF) (
talk) 22:46, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
The major new feature doesn't work as it should do, and at least two major new bugs are introduced: please, please do the sensible thing for once, and do not implement this update anywhere. Fram ( talk) 14:32, 6 December 2013 (UTC)
Then how do you explain the "new look" of the toolbar at MediaWiki after the 12-12 deployment? [36] now shows the "More" dropdown button in a new, much more stylish format: <visualeditor-toolbar-insert>. Dropping it down, the last entry is the <visualeditor-specialcharacter-button-tooltip>, which opens the <visualeditor-specialcharacterinspector-title>
Yep, the above "nowikis" are the actual text you see. Catchy, isn't it? Of course, being blocked on Bugzilla, I can't file a bug there :-))))
I then tried to edit my sandbox, but on saving, I got "Error: The modification you tried to make was aborted by an extension hook". Nice... I'll let the testers figure out on their own how to reproduce that one though. Further tests still included clouds, and all known problems. But with a better toolbar, credit where credit's due! Fram ( talk) 21:17, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
Using the first article I found with "random article", I tested the "rich text copying" feature which finally has been released to enwiki, despite misguided requests to the contrary.
Eupithecia albibasalis gives [37] for me, with FF25 and W7. Hey, it's nearly the same as the original, no?
So, can some people test this same article as well, and present their results, with their OS, Browser, and other relevant info? It may be at best informative, and at worst very amusing. No need to post your results at Bugzilla though, the WMF devs are, after their own extensive testing, of course aware of all these issues already. Fram ( talk) 21:31, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
I tries this with Vector/Chrome32/Win7. First I tried copying from the article in VE edit mode [38]. Apparently the infobox wasn't copied, even though it appeared to highlighted (which I did using the mouse). Next I used CTRL+A to make sure everything was highlighted, which resulted in [39]. I then tried copying from the article in normal read mode, which gives [40]. The good news? Bold, italic, and bolded italic text copys alright. Templates seem to copy over alright, if you copy them from VE edit mode, and actually manage to highlight them. The bad news? Links are either being completely messed up, when copied from VE mode, or not being copied over at all, when copied from read mode. The reference that isn't inside the infobox template is copied over as as an empty <ref /> tag, or as plain text, depending on the source. - Evad37 [ talk 09:35, 16 December 2013 (UTC)
I switched this thing off wayback but follow the /Feedback page hoping to learn that the left hand understands what the right hand and the rest of the movement is doing. So cringing from afar can pass on my admiration and respects to Fram for her/his tenacity in staying with the subject. I know from other walks of life that expressing the beliefs of hundreds of volunteers can get to be a lonely job- when they recognise that you are saying exactly what they wanted to say, they walk away and let you get on with it. Frams views are universally shared- and should be treated with reverence by WMF and the advice followed to the letter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ClemRutter ( talk • contribs) 22:28, 11 December 2013 (UTC)
And I now have been blocked from Bugzilla by one of the involved devs on that thread, for "Warned in a private email to stop being aggressive". Funnily enough, another, more friendly editor there posted me a link to the Bugzilla etiquette, which contains things like "Do things in public. Unless you were asked to email somebody with specific information, place all information relating to bugs in the bug report itself. Avoid sending private email; no-one else can read your mail if you do that." Which is what I did, but what the blocking Bugzilla admin didn't (and which I only saw after the block was made, I don't constantly check my wikimails). Oh well, it will at least stop the requests to put these things in Bugzilla :-) The email was rather short, but contained a link to the WMF code of conduct policy, which starts "All Wikimedia staff and members of the Board of Trustees are required to abide by this Code of Conduct. It is also intended to provide guidance for volunteers.". As far as I know, I'm not Wikimedia staff not a member of the Board of Trustees... Desperate times and people require desperate measures I suppose? Fram ( talk) 10:31, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
I like the looks of the new VE toolbar, but while it's available at mediawiki, it's not on the English Wikipedia. Is there an expected date for the changeover, here? (I ask because I'd like to update the User Guide.)
Also, a side comment: Why not "Format" or "Formatting" or "Format text" (with a down arrow) rather than the italicized, underlined, capital "A" as the icon for the list of formatting choices? There certainly is plenty of room on the toolbar for that word.
More generally, why are the four pulldown menus on the toolbar handed in four different ways?
Displaying all menus consistently (I'd vote for following the "Paragraph" approach) really would help an editor easily figure out that these are ways to get are multiple choices, whereas all the other icons on the toolbar are single click-to-use options. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 00:50, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
I thought I'd have another go with VE. Tried to edit some tags within "Multiple issues": why is the window for the "issues" only about 1 1/2 lines high, when there is a vast amount of empty white space in the whole editing window? It's irritating not to be able to see all the existing issues without scrolling down (no scroll bar, just have to move cursor down through this mini-window). Generally very un-user-friendly. Using Firefox. Could do a screenshot if necessary, if others don't have this experience. Pam D 12:02, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
If I edit Immanuel Kant, place my cursor at the end of the page, and then cursor back one with the left cursor key, the browser freezes for a while (it says "Not Responding" in the title bar) and then when it comes around it has selected all of the material from the bottom up to and excluding the "See also" heading, and there is a transclusion puzzle piece image link over the selection in the top right corner. If I enter the transclusion dialogue through that link, there are "Content" sections which include text fields. Many of these fields are too small to read much of the text within them easily, an example being the Content section above the "Navboxes" template section. Firefox 25.0.1 Windows 7 Professional SP-1. -- Atethnekos ( Discussion, Contributions) 02:57, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
Also if I place my cursor at the end of the "See also" heading and then cursor forwarddown one with the right down cursor key, the cursor ends up on the right side of the bottom of the "See also" section. If I type a letter then however the letter appears underneath the "Authority control" template. --
Atethnekos (
Discussion,
Contributions) 03:05, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
Bug report | VisualEditor |
---|---|
Mito.money | Please app{} |
Intention: | use visual editor |
Steps to Reproduce: | Firefox nightly + chromium
agents: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:29.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/29.0 Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/31.0.1650.63 Safari/537.36 also Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:25.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/25.0 Iceweasel/25.0 |
Results: | no visual editor |
Expectations: | it worked before |
Page where the issue occurs | |
Web browser | see above |
Operating system | Linux amd64 debian sid |
Skin | vector, removed my userstyles.css that worked with visual editor to make sure |
Notes: | |
Workaround or suggested solution |
Scientus ( talk) 01:45, 18 December 2013 (UTC)
As above, I thought it time to give VE another try.
But:
There may be some improvements (the very existence of an attempt to help with Multiple Issues is one, I suppose), but on balance it just doesn't work for the kind of edits I do. I'll look out for news from Bugzilla to tell me it's beginning to be anything like fit for purpose, but today it ain't. Good Luck, but 'Bye for now. Pam D 12:10, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
I am still not sure if the new way/layout of adding references (and not only) is good or not. What I know is that on my first try to use it, I don't like it :/
Except of the issue that Pam is mentioning above (
Multiple issues-minimal spaces) which is kind of annoying and not helpful since you can only watch one line of what you are typing, when I click on one parameter, the cursor "jumps" to the one above and I have to click it again to make it go where I want. Even worse, when there is no any parameter above, it takes me back to the beginning. I don't know how to explain that exactly. To reproduce it, try to add a reference to an article. It will show you the box with "source title" and "url" parameters already existing and on the right a list of the rest parameters. Don't choose any of the ones on the right and click on the "source title" to add the title. Can you see what is happening? This "jumping" happens almost every time I click on a parameter on the left to add its context!
And please bring back the big box where we could write each parameter's context and see what we were writing instead of that line. When you have a list of guests to add in an episode is not helpful at all! FF26 Windows 8
TeamGale 17:05, 20 December 2013 (UTC)
Hi.
VisualEditor has turned into a powerful tool. One that I'd consider very seriously. Powerful but not reliable. Everytime I make an edit with VisualEditor, there is a chance that my changes are not saved and I receive an "Unknown Error".
Best regards,
Codename Lisa (
talk) 18:43, 27 December 2013 (UTC)