The current sequence of buttons in VisualEditor's toolbar is a temporary layout that is not ideally suited for typical article editing activities. Your opinions about which ones should be included and where on the toolbar or menus they should be located are wanted. You can create a new section for your ideas or comment on other people's.
Type this... | to produce this: |
---|---|
{{multiple image | align = center | direction = horizontal | header = My proposal | width = 50 | image1 = VisualEditor - Icon - Picture.svg | image2 = VisualEditor - Icon - Reference.svg | image3 = VisualEditor - Icon - References.svg }} |
The current toolbar gives too much priority to hard-coded formatting such as Bold, Italic, Lists and Indents. As a result:
I propose that article content buttons should be at the left end and formatting should be at the right end of the toolbar, so something like this:
Paragraph
If "More" is necessary, it would probably be inserted into the formatting buttons, and the users would expect to find more of them in the drop-down, like this:
Paragraph
More
Of course, this is only a starting point. By the way: underscore and strikeout shouldn't be formatting options in the article space, "Page title" isn't necessary as a paragraph style. Thoughts? -
Pointillist (
talk) 14:21, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
T54271. -- Maggie Dennis (WMF) ( talk) 15:20, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
As these are individual images, you can experiment with layouts without needing an image editor. All you have to do is cut-and-paste. Here's what we have so far:
Paragraph
or
Paragraph
or
Paragraph
More
Over to you -
Pointillist (
talk) 21:30, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
First of all, I suggest putting the underline button next to the bold ant italic buttons, like in most word processors. Next, how about putting the "tools" (references, media, references list and transclusion) at the beginning of the toolbar? Also, you could add a "sign post" button to make it possible to use the VE on talk pages. Finally, I think users should have the possibility of replacing the "more" menu with icons on the toolbar. The Million Rabbit 05:16, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
I think the toolbar should be organized in favor of actions recommended by manual of style of most wikis (VE is an editor for Wikipedia, not a generic document editor), and actions that are usually used in only a few situations should be less obvious. So that new editors are less prone to use formattings which are not recommended.
-- NicoV ( Talk on frwiki) 08:05, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
Text labels: I would guess that the layout currently used, was chosen so that they could add the words after the icons. I recall there were a few requests for "text labels" to be added to the icons, particularly the "transclusion" and "reference" icons. I agree that text labels are needed, unless those 2 icons can be drastically improved and (somehow?) made more intuitive. – Quiddity ( talk) 05:34, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
Loose translation of feedback from fr.wp user Nemesis III: <<The Visual Editor has been updated recently, here I give my opinion on these changes.
I disagree with the current placement of 'media' in the more dropdown menu. Conversation on its placement seems to be quiet at the moment.. I think media priority would be good showcase in the Visual Editor. After all, it is a 'visual' editor. We're engaging new users, who expect the ability to upload and add media. If we want wiki pages to slowly become more media-rich (and I think they really need to in an appropriate way of course), then having the add media button prominent will at least remind new editors to think. "Hey, Wikipedia wants appropriate images, is there one I can donate/upload/create to enhance this article while I'm here?" Anything less seems inconsistent with recent campaigns for commons uploads. As it is, the media button in the 'more' dropdown seems to continue to make media a second class citizen. Just a little less important than Superscript??? Really? Simple point: It's not where most users expect it to be. Experienced users might think the feature simply doesn't exist. I thought the feature was disabled until I 'found' it under the dropdown. There's a disconnect in the design here. MarkJurgens
It's important to discuss not only the order of buttons, but also their layout and grouping.
Undo | Structure | Style | Tools |
Or maybe this way:
Undo | Structure | Style | Tools |
Something like this (with better styling) alleviates the problem of not having a label describing each button, and guides the user into the purpose of each group of buttons. Diego ( talk) 03:43, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
There have been a few threads discussing the "Add Reference/Citation" icon. ( Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback/Archive_2013_5#Editing_a_footnote (most recent), Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback/Archive_2013_1#Icons_are_incomprehensible, and 5 other less specific threads linked at bugzilla:51372). It took me quite a few seconds to initially recognize that the current icon is meant to be a book, with a ribbon-bookmark hanging over the side (even after being told).
As I said in the most recent thread, I believe that the superscript blue bracketed numbers [24] are the most recognizable visual representation of a "reference", [42] and that "element" needs to be part of any icon design for this function. (per xkcd!) Sorry if this is already being discussed/considered elsewhere, but I thought it worth mentioning here in case it isn't. – Quiddity ( talk) 21:45, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
Here are three substitute icons in case you would like to try them in mockups:
This is what they look like next to the current tools:
Hope this helps -
Pointillist (
talk) 07:53, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
As suggested above, here are some buttons in the shape of an open book (or journal, newspaper, magazine) styled like the bookmark and media buttons:
The fourth from the left ( Open-book-2.svg) is the clearest on my screen, but your mileage may vary. As for where to put a citation indicator[42], well, I dunno—that would probably require a designer. The fifth from the left uses a smaller book, but there still doesn't seem to be room for the footnote number. Over to you... - Pointillist ( talk) 12:01, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
The user suggest here (with examples) that a set of "themes" for the toolbar is provided. -- Elitre (WMF) ( talk) 14:16, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
Several changes have been made to the toolbar recently. Please leave your thoughts on these here, along with any suggestions for future improvements. Whatamidoing (WMF) ( talk) 19:41, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
The new toolbar must have an alignment option for images. This is a core necessity.
The current sequence of buttons in VisualEditor's toolbar is a temporary layout that is not ideally suited for typical article editing activities. Your opinions about which ones should be included and where on the toolbar or menus they should be located are wanted. You can create a new section for your ideas or comment on other people's.
Type this... | to produce this: |
---|---|
{{multiple image | align = center | direction = horizontal | header = My proposal | width = 50 | image1 = VisualEditor - Icon - Picture.svg | image2 = VisualEditor - Icon - Reference.svg | image3 = VisualEditor - Icon - References.svg }} |
The current toolbar gives too much priority to hard-coded formatting such as Bold, Italic, Lists and Indents. As a result:
I propose that article content buttons should be at the left end and formatting should be at the right end of the toolbar, so something like this:
Paragraph
If "More" is necessary, it would probably be inserted into the formatting buttons, and the users would expect to find more of them in the drop-down, like this:
Paragraph
More
Of course, this is only a starting point. By the way: underscore and strikeout shouldn't be formatting options in the article space, "Page title" isn't necessary as a paragraph style. Thoughts? -
Pointillist (
talk) 14:21, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
T54271. -- Maggie Dennis (WMF) ( talk) 15:20, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
As these are individual images, you can experiment with layouts without needing an image editor. All you have to do is cut-and-paste. Here's what we have so far:
Paragraph
or
Paragraph
or
Paragraph
More
Over to you -
Pointillist (
talk) 21:30, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
First of all, I suggest putting the underline button next to the bold ant italic buttons, like in most word processors. Next, how about putting the "tools" (references, media, references list and transclusion) at the beginning of the toolbar? Also, you could add a "sign post" button to make it possible to use the VE on talk pages. Finally, I think users should have the possibility of replacing the "more" menu with icons on the toolbar. The Million Rabbit 05:16, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
I think the toolbar should be organized in favor of actions recommended by manual of style of most wikis (VE is an editor for Wikipedia, not a generic document editor), and actions that are usually used in only a few situations should be less obvious. So that new editors are less prone to use formattings which are not recommended.
-- NicoV ( Talk on frwiki) 08:05, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
Text labels: I would guess that the layout currently used, was chosen so that they could add the words after the icons. I recall there were a few requests for "text labels" to be added to the icons, particularly the "transclusion" and "reference" icons. I agree that text labels are needed, unless those 2 icons can be drastically improved and (somehow?) made more intuitive. – Quiddity ( talk) 05:34, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
Loose translation of feedback from fr.wp user Nemesis III: <<The Visual Editor has been updated recently, here I give my opinion on these changes.
I disagree with the current placement of 'media' in the more dropdown menu. Conversation on its placement seems to be quiet at the moment.. I think media priority would be good showcase in the Visual Editor. After all, it is a 'visual' editor. We're engaging new users, who expect the ability to upload and add media. If we want wiki pages to slowly become more media-rich (and I think they really need to in an appropriate way of course), then having the add media button prominent will at least remind new editors to think. "Hey, Wikipedia wants appropriate images, is there one I can donate/upload/create to enhance this article while I'm here?" Anything less seems inconsistent with recent campaigns for commons uploads. As it is, the media button in the 'more' dropdown seems to continue to make media a second class citizen. Just a little less important than Superscript??? Really? Simple point: It's not where most users expect it to be. Experienced users might think the feature simply doesn't exist. I thought the feature was disabled until I 'found' it under the dropdown. There's a disconnect in the design here. MarkJurgens
It's important to discuss not only the order of buttons, but also their layout and grouping.
Undo | Structure | Style | Tools |
Or maybe this way:
Undo | Structure | Style | Tools |
Something like this (with better styling) alleviates the problem of not having a label describing each button, and guides the user into the purpose of each group of buttons. Diego ( talk) 03:43, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
There have been a few threads discussing the "Add Reference/Citation" icon. ( Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback/Archive_2013_5#Editing_a_footnote (most recent), Wikipedia:VisualEditor/Feedback/Archive_2013_1#Icons_are_incomprehensible, and 5 other less specific threads linked at bugzilla:51372). It took me quite a few seconds to initially recognize that the current icon is meant to be a book, with a ribbon-bookmark hanging over the side (even after being told).
As I said in the most recent thread, I believe that the superscript blue bracketed numbers [24] are the most recognizable visual representation of a "reference", [42] and that "element" needs to be part of any icon design for this function. (per xkcd!) Sorry if this is already being discussed/considered elsewhere, but I thought it worth mentioning here in case it isn't. – Quiddity ( talk) 21:45, 20 September 2013 (UTC)
Here are three substitute icons in case you would like to try them in mockups:
This is what they look like next to the current tools:
Hope this helps -
Pointillist (
talk) 07:53, 24 September 2013 (UTC)
As suggested above, here are some buttons in the shape of an open book (or journal, newspaper, magazine) styled like the bookmark and media buttons:
The fourth from the left ( Open-book-2.svg) is the clearest on my screen, but your mileage may vary. As for where to put a citation indicator[42], well, I dunno—that would probably require a designer. The fifth from the left uses a smaller book, but there still doesn't seem to be room for the footnote number. Over to you... - Pointillist ( talk) 12:01, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
The user suggest here (with examples) that a set of "themes" for the toolbar is provided. -- Elitre (WMF) ( talk) 14:16, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
Several changes have been made to the toolbar recently. Please leave your thoughts on these here, along with any suggestions for future improvements. Whatamidoing (WMF) ( talk) 19:41, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
The new toolbar must have an alignment option for images. This is a core necessity.