Home • Search • Translate
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

December 1st

{{ Helsinki-stub}} / Category:Helsinki stubs

Not sure why this hasn't been noticed before, but there's no WikiProject Helsinki, and in nine months this category has attracted a scant 20 stubs, most of which could easily be fitted into the hardly overpopulated Cat:Finland geography stubs. I think this one could easily be culled. Grutness... wha? 12:07, 1 December 2005 (UTC) reply

I'd noticed it, but had other things I'd rather tend to first, but since it's been nominated, delete. Caerwine 14:48, 1 December 2005 (UTC) reply
Keep, I don't see why a city would have to have a WikiProject in order to have its own stub. I have created many articles as Helsinki-stubs, and I feel it helps distinguish them from Finland-stubs, which could be anywhere in Finland, even in places I've never visited. I would even prefer Tampere and Turku to have their own stubs. — JIP | Talk 15:08, 1 December 2005 (UTC) reply
Delete, they are too few. Conscious 17:52, 1 December 2005 (UTC) reply
Delete; I'm becoming less keen on our no subdivision-stubs without a wikiproject, but 20 stubs is too few to justify keeping either way. -- Mairi 22:20, 1 December 2005 (UTC) reply
cool. Not that it matters much; I find it surprising just how insignificant matters people deal with here, following a formal sexual procedure. In any case, some justification for my opinion: 1) I'm quite sure that there are _lots_ more articles in en.wiki that could be labeled as Helsinki stubs, but haven't been yet, 2) not all the articles fit "Finland geography stubs": some of them are about restaurants and other miscellaneous places of interest, for example. -- Jonik 19:36, 11 December 2005 (UTC) reply
Comment: If the Helsinki-stub template and category are deleted, the Helsinki stubs that aren't about geography can be made into Finland stubs. But I still stand by my keep vote. — JIP | Talk 12:29, 13 December 2005 (UTC) reply
'delete 20? a good editor shouldve cleared it by now! BL kiss the lizard 01:47, 14 December 2005 (UTC) reply

As it happened there were only five non-geographical stubs anyway, all of which now have finland-stub plus a "type"-stub (e.g., restaurant-stub). Grutness... wha? 06:06, 17 December 2005 (UTC). reply

December 2nd

Cat:Quaker-related stubs

It was suggested that the category be renamed.

{{ Maryland-Stub}} & Cat:Maryland-related stubs

It was suggested that the stub be deleted instead.

  • Delete No WikiProject and only 4 stubs. At a minimum the template needs renaming, even if kept.
  • Delete. May be useful later, but not now if there are only four stubs. Grutness... wha? 00:31, 3 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Comment: I found 93 suitable stubs relating to Maryland (ignoring biography articles). So it could certainly be of sufficient size. Whether we want state stubs is a different matter. -- Mairi 03:58, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply

Cat:Eastern Orthodox Christianity-related stubs

It was suggested that the category be renamed.

{{ Salvador-stub}} & Cat:El Salvador-related stubs

It was suggested that the stub be renamed as well.

{{ Hong-Kong-stub}} & Cat:Hong Kong-related stubs

It was suggested that the template be renamed as well.

TODO: 1) Change all Hong-Kong-stub to HongKong-stub 2) Move everything else out of the -related category. -- TheParanoidOne 16:07, 14 December 2005 (UTC) reply

Done -- TheParanoidOne 18:45, 17 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ PNG-stub}} & Cat:Papua New Guinea-related stubs

It was suggested that the stub be deleted instead.

  • Comment Only 24 stubs, the same as Nauru (see above) but unlike Nauri there's considerable potential for more stubs and it has a geography stub category with 76 stubs. I'm neutral on keeping it, but if kept, it should be renamed {{ PapuaNewGuinea-stub}} & Cat:Papua New Guinea stubs, with {{ PNG-stub}} kept as a redirect. Caerwine 21:58, 2 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Keep - this has enough potential. I've no real qualms about PNG-stub, either, since it's a very widely used abbreviation, though perhaps keeping it as the redirect only is better. Grutness... wha? 00:31, 3 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Keep, possibly rename. Firstly, there's plenty of potential for more, and it's a perfectly worthy stub topic. Secondly, I'm fairly sure that the current category is far from comprehensive; I do a bit of work in the area, and I think there's quite a few stubs in the area that just haven't been tagged. Ambi 03:22, 9 December 2005 (UTC) reply

Template kept. Category renamed. -- TheParanoidOne 06:45, 21 December 2005 (UTC) reply

Category:Guyana-related stubs

Renamed to "Guyana stubs". See complete discussion here. -- TheParanoidOne 18:56, 27 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ JewHist-stub}} & Cat:Jewish history-related stubs

It was suggested that the template be renamed as well.

  • A definite rename of the category to Cat:Jewish history stubs so as match the parent catgeory. Could live with any of {{ Jewish-history-stub}} {{ Jewish-hist-stub}}, {{ Hebrew-stub}}, or {{ Hebrew-hist-stub}}. The latter two have a slight advantage of separating the ethnicity form the religion, but they also get a conontation for certain branches of Christian theology that would be both too narrow and too POV that could be problematic, so I have no firm opinon as to which if the three if any would be preferable. Caerwine 21:44, 2 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • Caerwine: You are mistaken, one huge problem with applying the word "Hebrew" is that it will be confused with the Hebrew language, so do NOT use "Hebrew" here no matter what you do! I am the original creator of this stub and based it on the fact that it begins with the article Jew, and Jews are both a religion and an ethnicity, so I do not understand your "worries" here. Also, If you must, then {{ Jewish-hist-stub}} is better. IZAK 09:52, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • rename cat, and rename template to {{ Jewish-hist-stub}}, since we use hist, not history. The other suggestions overlap too much with other template names in thsi confusing part of the stubbiverse. Grutness... wha? 00:31, 3 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • Grutness, I do not understand what you say, what "category" should be "renamed"? What's wrong with Category:Jewish history-related stubs??? IZAK 09:52, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
      • Like all other stub categories which contained the word "-related", it needs to be renamed to simply ""Jewish history stubs". And since all the other history stub templates use the form xxx-hist-stub, this should be Jewish-hist-stub. No-one is talking about getting rid of the category and stub, simply renaming them to be like all the others. Grutness... wha? 11:22, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
      • Grutness's explanation now makes sense of this. IZAK 11:37, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Keep because the stub is fine, as explained in my comments to Caerwine and Grutness above. IZAK 09:52, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • Rename to {{ Jewish-hist-stub}} (as I already partly-indicated above in my initial response in any case -- just that I was concerned about possible gross mishandling of this important stub). I am changing my vote, assured by Grutness's explanation to me at User talk:IZAK#JewHist-stub at SFD IZAK 11:37, 6 December 2005 (UTC) : "Hi IZAK - you seem to be confused about what is happening at SFD. No-one is talking about getting rid of the template and category, simply renaming them to be in line with the stub naming conventions. All that means is that {{ JewHist-stub}} and Cat:Jewish history-related stubs would become {{ Jewish-hist-stub}} and Cat:Jewish history stubs. It would be a bit silly having this category as "xxx-related stubs" when all the others are "xxx stubs" (which they will be within a week), or having "JewHist-stub" when all other history stub subcategory templates are of the form xxx-hist-stub. I'd ask you to please reconsider your vote. Grutness... wha? 11:21, 6 December 2005 (UTC)" Thanks for the input. IZAK 11:40, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Rename to Jewish history stubs. JFW |  T@lk 10:08, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Clear keep, and Definite oppose to the deletion of the stubcat. I realize some people are hypersensitive about the use of "Jew" as an adjective...clearly neither IZAK nor I object to it, and we're two of the most recognizable of the Jew-POV-face of WP, so to the rest of youse, I say, "chill out already!" (and I'm not even ashkenazi!!!) Yeah, the stub name isn't politically correct, but it wasn't meant to be either politically correct or incorrect...it was meant to be used as a shorthand for NPOV editors of Jewish history related stubs and articles. Chill out w/ the hypersensitivity, leave the stub and its name alone, and leave the stub cat intact. Tom e r talk 10:33, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
      • Changing to rename per Grutness' and Humus' responses to IZAK's recommendation. Tom<font color="#008000"> e r talk 19:39, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • Err, Tomer...I am not guilty of "Jew-POV-face" on WP -- I happen to be one of the best NPOV editors on WP of topics relating to Jews and Judaism, and I know that you are also that as well (so I will attribute your playful comments about me here to your inherently upbeat personality, and nothing else.) IZAK 10:40, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
      • Keep your chin up.  :-D Tom e r talk 19:39, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Whatever you do, do not rename into Hebrews and do not attempt to separate ethnicity from religion for an ethno-religious group. I also don't have a problem with "Jew***". ← Humus sapiens ←ну? 10:44, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • I would tend to rename to {{ Jewish-hist-stub}}, but {{ JewHist-stub}} seems fine to me. Category seems fine to me as either Cat:Jewish history-related stubs or Cat:Jewish history stubs. Absolute no on "Hebrew" which in contemporary English mainly means the language, not the people. - Jmabel | Talk 19:52, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Rename as per Grutness and Humus Sapiens. Jayjg (talk) 23:13, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Rename as it makes the category names consistent with each other. gidonb 02:43, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply

TODO: "JewHist-stub" -> "Jewish-hist-stub". -- TheParanoidOne 20:47, 22 December 2005 (UTC) reply

update : Itlooks as though this discussion ended, and the necessary changes were made. Are there any loose ends, or can this discussion be archived? -- EncycloPetey 06:57, 26 December 2005 (UTC) reply

You can now. it still had to be orphaned and the original name deleted. That's now been done. Grutness... wha? 09:00, 26 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ Azerbaijan-stub}} & Cat:Azerbaijan-related stubs

It was suggested that the stub be deleted instead.

  • Delete Too few stubs. Caerwine 21:35, 2 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Well, I suppose there are not that many stubs, because I created the category not a few weeks ago. Where I suppose to put Azebaijan-related stubs, that are not Category:Azerbaijan geography stubs? I suggest merging Category:Azerbaijan geography stubs into the Category:Azerbaijan-related stubs abakharev 23:32, 2 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • There's also {{ Azeri-stub}} (same scope, seperate template) and {{ Azeri}} (redirect) which should go, regardless of what happens with this. -- Mairi 00:24, 3 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete Azeri-stub and Azeri, redirect Azerbaijan-stub to {{ caucasus-stub}} (which is the answer to your question, Alex!) Grutness... wha? 00:31, 3 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. How are people supposed to fill gaps in our coverage of underrepresented countries such as Azerbaijan if they can't find said gaps? Ambi 03:22, 9 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • As with Nauru, above, the answer is that editors able to extend Azerbaijan articles are very likely to be able to also extend articles on Georgia and Armenia, and as such, having these articles in one moderately populated category rather than three sparsely populated categories helps them, as well as making in more rather than less likely that the articles will be edited, since an editor who - for example - knows a lot about Armenia but a slight amount about Azerbaijan would see these articles listed when they might not otherwise have seen them at all. Grutness... wha? 03:38, 10 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • delete and merge with caucasus-stub. BL kiss the lizard 09:52, 11 December 2005 (UTC) reply

Summary: Template redirected to {{ Caucasus-stub}}. Category deleted. -- TheParanoidOne 22:28, 27 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ RC-stub}} & Cat:Catholic-related stubs

It was suggested that both the template and the category be renamed.

  • Rename to {{ RomanCatholic-stub}} & Cat:Roman Catholic Church stubs Caerwine 21:35, 2 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Either rename as per Caerwine or expand scope and rename simply as catholic-stub. Grutness... wha? 00:31, 3 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Rename as per Caerwine. Oppose a rescope, without being much clearer about what the new scope would be. Alai 06:35, 4 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Either Rename to Catholic-stub per Grutness if acceptable (see objections claiming that secular understanding includes all other sects claiming 'Catholic' name), else Retain as is. But, seriously, how long will this vote be? Be quick, this is looking awkward! WikiSceptic 14:37, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Rename as per Caerwine -- SockpuppetSamuelson 14:40, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Retain {{ RC-stub}} and rename Cat:Roman Catholic stubs The scope of this should be as it is now, Catholic Church related stubs, not other Catholic sects or offshoots. Dominick (TALK) 15:32, 7 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Keep RC-stub but create sub-stub like Catholic texts, Catholic theologian, Catholic buildings, etc. -- Psy guy Talk 20:01, 12 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Keep the stub name as there are over 800 pages that have used it. Rename the category if there is an automated/bot way of fixing up the pages. -- Fplay 13:36, 15 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • comment - there is, and it's exacly the same amount of work to change a template and category as it is to change a category alone. So if that's the only objection, it's not that relevant... Grutness... wha? 06:19, 29 December 2005 (UTC) reply

Summary: Template remained as {{ RC-stub}}, category renamed to Cat:Roman Catholic Church stubs ({{ RomanCatholic-stub}} was created as a redirect tho). -- Mairi 06:57, 29 December 2005 (UTC) reply

December 3rd

Galicia * stubs

To quote Mairi at WP:WSS/D: A variant of the first one ({{ Galician-stub}}) was deleted a month ago, so that could be speedied. However, it's the only one of these that looks possibly viable; but there's still the issue of how to distinguish that these are for the Spanish Galicia and not the Ukrainian/Polish Galicia.

These stubs accompany a brand new WikiProject... but, as the boilerplate text for making WikiProjects states, "DO NOT simply create new stub templates, as these will probably be deleted". QED. The first of these templates is potentially viable, and there is a proposal on the table for splitting Spain's geography stubs (though it is far from clear that this would be the best way). The others are unnecessary, as the parent Spanish categories are nowhere near splittable level (270 Spanish people-stubs and 54 Spanish writer-stubs, even including the Galician ones!). In any case Spain-bio-stub wouldn't be split by region but by occupation. Given that there is a WikiProject, a simple galicia-stub (or GaliciaES-stub, perhaps?) is probably worthwhile, leading into a category called Cat:Galicia (Spain) stubs, but the others should be merged with it and then deleted. Grutness... wha? 03:09, 3 December 2005 (UTC) reply

A definite delete on all but the root Galician stub unless a lot more can can be found. I'd prefer {{ GaliciaSpain-stub}} & Cat:Galicia (Spain) stubs but could live with {{ Galicia-stub}} since judging by the difference between the numbers of articles that feed into the categories of the two Galicias, it will be a long time, if ever, before a Galicia-Lodomeria stub be needed. Caerwine 04:52, 3 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete all but root temp&cat, merging thereto. Alai 07:15, 5 December 2005 (UTC) reply

Logging note: All except first item deleted. This discussion has been added to the Not Deleted section as well, for completion. -- TheParanoidOne 11:53, 14 December 2005 (UTC) reply

December 4th

{{ Netball-stub}} / Netball stubs

Another one for pruning. <10 items for several months, as per this diff. The 5 stubs in the category should go back into Sports stubs. -- TheParanoidOne 22:52, 4 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • Keep. It's a perfectly legitimate stub category, and the only reason there's less than ten stubs is because I don't believe in creating masses of stubs; I prefer to write long articles (am I going to have to do this to get this kept?). Interested parties need to be able to find stubs in their area. Ambi 23:15, 4 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per nom. Few stubs generally indicate either that the subject is of low interest or low expansion capability. I doubt the latter, but am uncertain of the former. Caerwine 03:23, 5 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • its not big in a lot of countries but theres a lot of interest where it is (like NZ, Australia, England, South Africa and Jamaica). delete now but might need it later. BL kiss the lizard 05:00, 5 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per nom. Also, 4 of the 5 stubs have been tagged with this since June. -- Mairi 03:57, 5 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. Sorry, Ambi, but that's pretty much a "I find this useful" vote. A (very short) list would suffice to keep track of these, and they might well be more likely to be expanded in a somewhat broader category. Many (many) more stubs would help, as would a wikiproject (as well). If there's a feasible broader category that'd cover this, be more viable, and fit within sports stubs, I'd be fine with rescoping, but I can't think of a sensible basis to do that. Alai 08:15, 5 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ journal-stub}} & Cat:Scientific journal stubs

The stub has been on the proposals page long enough that it was creatible, but the name of the template and the scope of the category don't match up with the discussion. I recommend that we rename the template to {{ sci-journal-stub}} as was discussed in the proposal since the 128 stubs placed in the category clearly show that it is large enough and then create a new {{ journal-stub}} → Cat:Journal stubs → Cat:Journals to serve for journals in the other academic disciplines. Caerwine 06:34, 4 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • I agree about moving {{ journal-stub}} to {{ sci-journal-stub}}. I will restub all the articles in the category. Bmdavll talk 06:42, 4 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • I support Caerwine's suggestions. Grutness... wha? 00:46, 5 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Agree there's a mismatch here, but I'm not convinced we need a separate category for non-science peer-reviewed journals; would this even hit threshold? In the permanent categories, scientific journals are a large, hierarchical category, and the others are all teeny. What about, we rescope journal-stub to peer-reviewed journals in general, accordingly rename category to Cat:Journal stubs (as per permie) or Cat:Peer-reviewed journal stubs if we want to be super-clear. If these are larger than they appear after creation and sorting down, we can re-split at a later date. Alai 05:08, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • I just did a census of the first column of the first page and found 6 stubs suitable for a general journal stub category and an additional one suitable for the science journal one. Assuming the rest of the category keeps that same rough proportion, it looks like there are about 70 non-science journal stubs. I won't promise 60 stubs, but it won't be too badly underpopulated in even a worst case. Caerwine Caerwhine 06:45, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply

December 5th

{{ Futurama stub}}

For a specific television series; used on 10 articles, lacks a category. However, there's no wikiproject and it's unlikely there's near 50 stubs at present, so it ought to be deleted. Even if kept, it needs to be hyphenated. -- Mairi 07:35, 5 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • A clear-cut delete in any millennium. Alai 08:08, 5 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Keep Useful to segregate these stubs so those particularly interested in he show can easily identify them The JPS 14:50, 11 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • delete therell never be enough stubs for this to be a useful split. BL kiss the lizard 00:36, 13 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ Catalonia-bio-stub}} (no cat)

As per Galicia, below - the parent Spain bio-stub category has under 300 articles, and bio-stubs aren't split by subnational regions - even ones that used to be nations. The one stub marked with this could easily be double-stubbed with Spian-bio-stub and Catalonia-stub Grutness... wha? 05:08, 5 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • Send {{ Catalonia-bio-stub}} to catatonia. Caerwine 05:30, 5 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. Alai 08:08, 5 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Not sure on this. I understand what people are trying to avoid here, but a different set of people are liable to try working on Catalan-related stubs. And not all of historical Catalonia is in Spain, some is in France. -- Jmabel | Talk 19:54, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ Kosovo-stub}} / no cat

Was rejected as a proposal at WP:WSS/P only a month ago for various reasons: lack of stubs, the name issue (Kosova or Kosovo?), and the uncertain status of the place (to quote an anon at WP:WSS/D). Delete Grutness... wha? 00:46, 5 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • Delete per nom Caerwine 03:23, 5 December 2005 (UTC) making certain I add the ~~~~ this time reply
  • Delete, with WSS/P-related griping. Alai 08:08, 5 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete -- Valentinian 22:56, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ UKW-geo-stub}} and {{ UKS-geo-stub}} (redirects)

Probably about time these redirects went, now that there's a bot that can clear them. They were only ever intended to be temporary anyway. Grutness... wha? 00:56, 5 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • delete per nom. Caerwine 03:23, 5 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. One of our more horrible redirects, and self-inflicted, at that! Alai 08:08, 5 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Keep possibly useful redirects. -- SPUI ( talk) 20:22, 5 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • As distinct from these ones? I don't follow how these are potentially useful, even if we buy into the argument that editors won't recall the convention behind or distinction between {{ UK-stub}} and {{ uk-stub}}, or {{ Scotland-stub}} and {{ Scotland stub}}. Who's ever going to "accidentally" use {{ UKS-geo-stub}}? Alai 04:46, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. per nom. -- Mais oui! 20:37, 5 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Keep would think it useful ----
    • previous comment by User:Yale College
    • Technically, as creator and only editor of these stubs I could have speedied their deletion. These names don't conform to the stub naming conventions, and - with all due respect - perhaps editors with a few more edits than you are more able to judge whether these really are useful. Grutness... wha? 13:49, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • I remembered, which was why I was (I thought) being polite. I could have mentioned that his/her four previous edits had not had anything to do with stub-sorting - or Scotland or Wales, for that matter - and made an accusation of sockpuppetry based on that. Instead, I assumed good faith and simply commented - politely - that given his/her newness here, he/she might not yet be up-to-speed on whether these redirects meet requirements. Grutness... wha? 05:51, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete - Who is going to type these in? -- Cel e stianpower hablamé 20:42, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete a.s.a.p. Saga City 16:22, 7 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete as per nom. Conscious 20:41, 7 December 2005 (UTC) reply

December 6th

Category:Malta-related stubs

This one was approved by WSS/P, but the category uses *-related. I say we speedy this one. Aecis praatpaal 21:52, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply

I followed the guidelines.. Wikipedia:WikiProject_Stub_sorting/Naming_guidelines conflicts with what I read (searching for it) Srl 22:29, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
think i found it. Wikipedia:Stub said either x stubs or x-related stubs was ok. ive changed it. BL kiss the lizard 23:26, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
agree. I've created the new category and fixed the template.. searching for the guideline pages that i followed Srl 22:37, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
I speedied it, since the template and pages have been corrected to the new category. -- Mairi 02:58, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ Massachusetts-road-stub}} / no cat

Partway through the xx-State-Highway-stub mess, {{ Massachusetts-road-stub}} was created (with the {{ sfd-t}} tag already on it), and with no category. It has 16 stubs in it, all of which are Massachusetts State Highways (Massachusetts State Routes, actually). Given the WPJ apparently prefers {{ Massachusetts-State-Highway-stub}}, and there don't seem to be any stubs about Massachusetts highways that are not State Routes, it probably ought to be merged. Sam8 20:00, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply

This stub was created by a user that, when he saw that {{ Massachusetts-State-Highway-Stub}} was SFDed, created this stub just in case it got deleted. Since it did not get deleted, therefore I say delete. -- Rschen7754 ( talk - contribs) 00:22, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ Slovak-bio-stub}}

{{ Slovak-bio-stub}} should be renamed to {{ Slovakia-bio-stub}}, per the naming guidelines. Aecis praatpaal 17:56, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ Off-stub}} and Cat:New York Theatre stubs

Has been on WSS/D for just over two months now. Template is used on only one article. Iff this is to be kept, it shouldn't just be expanded, but imo it should be renamed as well: the template to {{ NYC-theat-stub}} and the category to Cat:New York City theater stubs (theater being the common spelling in US English). Aecis praatpaal 17:50, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply

Theatre is perfectly fine in this case as for live acting only the -re spelling is equally common in the US and we're only talking about the category, which for the non-stub categories uniformly uses theatre. (Frankly, I would't mind dropping the theat abbreviation we've been using for theatrical stub templates in favor of theatre with a redirect from theater for the stubs that cover the US. However if kept, we should be more ambitious in the rescope and rescope it as {{ US-theat-stub}} → ([noun] Cat:United States theatre stubs or [adjective] Cat:American theatre stubs) → Cat:Theatre in the United States. Caerwine Caerwhine 00:08, 7 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. Seldom used, and not really necessary. If we were going to subdivide theatre by place, then it would be by country, and given that the sole article seems to refer to a play (which could be performed anywhere), it's not really an appropriate split. BTW, that article was also a copyvio... Grutness... wha? 01:17, 7 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ ContemporaryArtStub}} and Cat:Contemporary Art stubs

Malformed, not used, category only became a blue link after I added the {{ sfd-c}} notice, has been on WSS/D for over three months now. Aecis praatpaal 17:37, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • delete. not a particularly useful way to split art stubs anyway, and uses that nasty little word "contemporary", which has two different and often contradictory meanings. Grutness... wha? 01:17, 7 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ enyzme-stub}} (Redirect)

A misspelled redirect to {{ enzyme-stub}}. Delete Caerwine Caerwhine 05:08, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply

delete (nice new sig, BTW) Grutness... wha? 05:33, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
Delete, preferably speedily. Alai 05:51, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ tvhost-stub}} and Category:TV Show Host stubs

For "TV Show Hosts" - so I can't see any way this doesn't duplicate {{ tv-bio-stub}}. I'd also argue that "host" is a pretty vague term, and not really a useful was to categorize. CDC (talk) 03:42, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • Agree on vagueness, would at least need tight wording to clarify. But it wouldn't duplicate tv-bio-, it'd be a sub-cat, and the (potential) parent is over-sized (7 pages). And it seems at least potentially useful, as it'd catch "on-screen talent" (alleged) that aren't "actors" or "newsreaders", etc). But how it's best split (by country? by role in/on TV?) is a sufficiently open-ended issue that this might be better dealt with at WP:WSS/P, regardless of what we do with this. Alai 04:40, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
The TV bios need splitting, but judging from the two stubs that this has, this at the very least severely overlaps with {{ tv-journalist-stub}} which has been on the proposals page (as part of a split of {{ journalist-stub}}) for about a day. Even if kept, both the template and the category are in serious need of a rename. Simpler to delete and recreate if determined to be needed later. Caerwine Caerwhine 04:50, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply


{{ India-eco-stub}} and Cat:Economy of India stubs

I suggest renaming to {{ India-econ-stub}} and Cat:Indian economics and finance stubs, per Caerwine on WSS/D. Aecis praatpaal 17:44, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ ITC Entertainment Productions-stub}} and Cat:ITC Entertainment stubs

Barely used, doesn't really seem viable, cuts right across the existing hierarchy. Has a Wikiproject, but doesn't have enough articles for a Wikiproject to get its own stub. Aecis praatpaal 17:41, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • Keep This is a newish Wikiproject, still getting off the ground. In the last three days alone, Man of the World, Seaway, The Sentimental Agent, Cannonball (series), The Buccaneers (series), The Des O'Connor Show, Bonkers!, Diver Dan, Espionage (series), The Forest Rangers, The Four Just Men and From a Bird's Eye View have all been added as stubs. These stubs are detailed but need further work - Phase 2 of the ITC Wikiproject. The stubs are distinct from other relevant stubs (TV programmes in general, for instance) as they are all for non-contemporary shows that have a distinct specialist audience (in other words, there are distinct "fans" of ITC programming). I can provide web references for whole websites devoted to ITC programming. Also, please see this list of productions that will be using the ITC stub in the near future. ➨ ❝ R E DVERS ❞ 18:04, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Keep as noted, this project is still getting off the ground. Will eventually have dozens of articles (in fact already does). 23skidoo 19:51, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Neutral on the category as it now has 29 stubs, but the template definitely needs a rename to fit in with the naming guidelines which specifically call for using hyphens and not spaces between the components. I'd favour {{ ITC-tv-stub}} since ITC was a television production company and thus stubs relating to it and its shows belong a subtype of {{ tv-stub}} and possibly {{ UK-tv-stub}}. That's another reason why you should have proposed first and created second, so as to get the stub properly named and placed in the stub heirarchy. Caerwine Caerwhine 23:16, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • At the very least rename. Why don't new WikiProjects follow the rules??? Grutness... wha? 01:17, 7 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Keep - for reasons already given. As for "new WikiProjects [not] following the rules".... perhaps if they were not so difficult to find (especially for new(ish) members who just want to get on and start helping, then perhaps they would be followed more often. HowardBerry 08:57, 7 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • Emphatic second of that -- it can be hard enough to find a Wikiproject that you know exists, let alone find clear directions on how to go about starting a new one. -- Antaeus Feldspar 15:03, 11 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Rename to {{ ITC-tv-stub}}. I think the Wikiproject will find this template name much more convenient. Conscious 14:46, 7 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Comment The rename option isn't that helpful to the project - if you look at this list you'll see that ITC did more than TV series. If we rename, it will simply spawn 1 or 2 more stubs to make up for the productions the stub doesn't cover. ➨ ❝ R E DVERS ❞ 15:29, 7 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • {{ ITC-stub}} is too ambiguous, so that is not an option. {{ ITC-Entertainment-stub}} I suppose would be an option and it would parallel the main article ITC Entertainment while following the naming guidelines. Probably should join {{ Disney-stub}} as a child of {{ corp-stub}} with the expanded scope. Caerwine Caerwhine 16:52, 7 December 2005 (UTC) reply
        • Regarding Redvers' comment above: I completely agree that renaming this to be a TV stub is not going to work/be productive. ITC did more than television productions - they were also a film production company and a distribution company. A more suitable rename would not include TV or Film, but rename it to something relevant to media in general. HowardBerry 16:58, 7 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • Can you think of a template name that would comply with naming guidelines, be precise and descriptive, and as convenient as possible? I don't like the current name - it's too long, and not standard. What about {{ ITCEntertainmentProductions-stub}} or {{ ITCEntertainment-stub}}?

Keep, with support for renaming {{ ITV-stub}} or an agreed short version if necessary. -- Cjmarsicano 20:15, 7 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • Comment I'd go for {{ ITCDistributions-stub}} or {{ ITC-Distributions-stub}}. I don't know where {{ ITV-stub}} came from, though: ITC shows were specifically not ITV shows; they just happened to usually (but by no means always) be shown on ITV in the UK thanks to ATV's ownership of ITC. In the main, they were produced in order to sell them into syndication in the United States - the UK sales were a by-product. ➨ ❝ R E DVERS ❞ 20:28, 7 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Keep the category has it has more than enough now for a Wikiproject stub. Rename to {{ ITCEntertainment-stub}}. (Where is "ITC Distributions" coming from as an idea for a name? That doesn't even exist as a redirect in Wikipedia?) Caerwine Caerwhine 10:59, 10 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Comment. ITC Distributions is the description we're using in the Wikiproject. The project started as being about ITC productions, but once the can was open, the worms got everywhere: ITC was a producer, financer and distributor and the line is rarely very clear. The term "An ITC World-Wide Distribution" is seen on a lot of ITC and ATV programmes - it was a phrase carefully chosen by the Independent Television Authority to ensure that ITC stuff was held at arms-length from ATV's stuff. All of this is very complex and very difficult to explain (that's why there's no article explaining it). It's also not a particularly likely search term for readers - and many editors here have an embolism if you create a redirect that they don't think it's likely anyone will search for - whether they know the subject or not. ➨ ❝ R E DVERS ❞ 11:12, 10 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • I'm not one to have embolisms over redirects in article space. (In template space I might, but not article space.) About the only ones I worry about there are those which correct multiple mistakes at the same time. That said, I wouldn't favor {{ ITCDistributions-stub}} unless the cat were also changed to Cat:ITC Distributions stubs Don't really care what you decide to call yourselves or the stub type as long as the stub follows the naming guidelines and is not ambiguous. As noted, {{ ITC-stub}} would be too ambiguous. Caerwine Caerwhine 11:36, 10 December 2005 (UTC) reply
      • I'm all for changing it all to follow the ITC Distributions name as standard. Howie ☎ 13:31, 10 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Keep, but would also support shortening the stub's name to something more convenient. The JPS 14:48, 11 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Comment: I don't know how this process completes, but if no one has any objections, would it now be ok to rename this stub and category (and any relevant pages (if any)) to follow the name ITC Distributions as standard? Howie ☎ 15:44, 11 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • SFD is supposed to take a week (it sometimes take longer due to lag or lack of consensus, but the latter at least doesn't seem to apply here.) Since the nomination was on the 6th, the change can be done starting on the 13th. Caerwine Caerwhine 15:05, 12 December 2005 (UTC) reply
      • Excellent! Thanks very much. I'll change the names now! Howie ☎ 02:42, 13 December 2005 (UTC) reply

Please note that Category:ITC Entertainment stubs now needs to be deleted, as a page move was not possible. It has been replaced with Category:ITC Distributions stubs as discussed above. Howie ☎ 03:45, 13 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ ST-ep-stub}}

I believe that this one, albeit poetic, is a bit too ambiguous. ST isn't just the abbreviation of Star Trek, it's also the ISO country code for São Tomé and Príncipe, the ISO language code for Sesotho and the NATO country code for Saint Lucia. EP is usually used for the European parliament or extended play music recordings. I propose renaming this to {{ StarTrek-episode-stub}}. Aecis praatpaal 23:16, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply

I'm half inclined to suggest that we up merge this one into {{ ST-stub}} instead (which also needs a rename) At around 400 stubs the combined stub type would not be overlarge. All the Star Trek episode stubs have "(X episode)" [where X refers to the particular series] at the end of the article name so it's not as if the episodes need a separate stub stype to be distinguishable and no other series has a seperate episode stub type. Caerwine Caerwhine 00:56, 7 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • upmerging would indeed be a reasonable thing to do. If not, then definitely rename Grutness... wha? 01:17, 7 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • On a second glance, the size of these categories is fairly substantial - 250 and 140 articles for St and ST-ep respectively. Perhaps a simple rename is the better option after all. Grutness... wha? 10:04, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply
      • Normally, I would agree with you except that every single Star Trek episode stub ends with " episode)" in the article title, as is specified by the naming convention for episode articles of the Star Trek WikiProject. With the distinction being already made obvious, I personally would only see a reason to split off the episodes if the category were {verylarge} which at 400 stubs it is not. I've left a note on the Star Trek WikiProject talk page about this, so hopefuly we'll get some response about this from those who would be most likely to use these stubs for the intended purpose of finding articles that need improvement. Caerwine Caerwhine 21:34, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • upmerge to a renamed StarTrek-Stub as per User:Caerwine. DES (talk) 18:45, 13 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • upmerge BL kiss the lizard 11:51, 15 December 2005 (UTC) reply

December 7th

{{ ST-stub}}

Rename As mentioned below in the discussion for {{ ST-ep-stub}}, this stub, which predates the naming guidelines, should be brought into compliance with the naming guidelines as {{ StarTrek-stub}}. Caerwine Caerwhine 17:10, 7 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • rename. Either that or make it a redirect to saint-stub to confuse the trekkies >:) Grutness... wha? 05:26, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • Comment Considering the reverence with which some of them hold the trinity of Kirk, Spock, and McCoy, they might think such a redirect was appropriate Caerwine Caerwhine 15:32, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • I don't see any naming conflict issues. It's ST-stub for Star Trek stubs and St-stub for saint stubs (can stubs really be canonicised?). If you by any chance think the current title is wrong, by all means rename and redirect to StarTrek-stub. — JIP | Talk 12:10, 9 December 2005 (UTC) reply
Canonize by renaming as proposed. Conscious 13:20, 9 December 2005 (UTC) reply
rename - Hayter 11:25, 15 December 2005 (UTC) reply

December 8th

Category:Stubs needing attention

A tad redundant, methinks. -- TheParanoidOne 22:31, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply

a tad speedied :) Grutness... wha? 23:42, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply
twice :( Grutness... wha? 00:13, 9 December 2005 (UTC) reply

Category:Nazi Germany stub articles → Category:Nazi Germany stubs

Remove the "articles" part of the name, as it's redundant. -- TheParanoidOne 23:12, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ Kurdistan-geo-stub}} / Category:Kurdistan geography stubs

For one thing, Kurdistan can refer to several different geographic areas, some of which cut across countries. Even if it just refers to the region in Iraq, Category:Iraq geography stubs has only 81 articles; also, Category:Kurdistan has only 21 articles. So it's quite unlikely to be large enough. Delete. -- Mairi 02:45, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • Delete We've been fairly strict about restricting the partioning of geo stubs along current de jure subdivisions. The only such area that this stub could conceivably refer to would be that of Kurdistan Province, Iran. The Iran geo stubs at 255 are more numerous than Iraq's, but I don't see 60 stubs for Iranian Kurdistan there. Caerwine Caerwhine 05:08, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete agreed. geo-stubs that don't use current official borders are just asking for edit wars, too. Grutness... wha? 05:25, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete, per nom. Alai 04:06, 15 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ EuroHist-stub}}

Unused malformed redirect of Euro-hist-stub. Delete. Grutness... wha? 10:00, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ geoscience-bio-stub}}

I can't see any reason why this ungainly stub template shouldn't be {{ geoscientist-stub}} instead. Caerwine Caerwhine 16:33, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • Hey, I created it and that sounds like a better name to me. I have no problem with the change. Rename -- Etacar11 16:36, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Rename Alai 04:06, 15 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ UT-stub}}, {{ UT-bio-stub}}, and {{ UT-geo-stub}} (Redirects)

These are all redirects to stubs from the Utah WikiProject, and said project doesn't even mention them (save on the talk page thereof). We don't need and shouldn't want a postal abbreviation here as a special case, so delete all three. Caerwine Caerwhine 03:07, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply

A case could be made for the ease of using an abbreviation for Massachusetts or North Carolina, due to the name's length - but even then it would be against stub naming guidelines. But Utah? Make them type an extra two letters! Grutness... wha? 05:25, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Keep; no reason to delete. -- SPUI ( talk) 07:25, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • delete no reason to keep and reasons not to UT could be utrehct (sp?) or united states territories or tanzania (officialy United Tanzania). BL kiss the lizard 07:41, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete Alai 04:06, 15 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ Europe-mil-stub}}

Somehow, when this one was made, it was made with "Europe" rather than the standard "Euro"". Rename to the more standard {{ Euro-mil-stub}}. Grutness... wha? 10:00, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • We might wish to get into a debate over whether we should be using a four letter abbreviation for a six letter word, but that should be handled at the bottom of the proposals page, not here. Delete Caerwine Caerwhine 15:28, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete I don't think we need an extra stub to add to a thousand pages. -- Valentinian 22:57, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Rename as per nom. Also, totally confused as to why we have two delete votes on a rename nom. Obviously a case of write-in democracy in action, but makes actual consensus bogglingly hard to determine if it stays like this. (Not to say, argues for separate sfd/sfr templates...) Possibly keep redirect. Alai 05:56, 11 December 2005 (UTC) reply

December 9th

{{ District Of Columbia-stub}}

While we can argue the pros and cons of whether we should have specific state-stubs (or in this case, district-stub) without WikiProjects, this does need a rename. User:Karmafist merrily created this and Virginia-stub without reference to WP:WSS/P, and the redirect below. Personally, I'm definitely softening on the "no project, no stub" stance" (and have called for debate at the foot of WP:WSS/P about it) but this needs a rename. Grutness... wha? 00:13, 9 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • There's also the problem of the capital "O". This stub needs a possibly lengthy discussion on the proposals page before it gets approved. Simply delete this one now until we can decide whether to name this {{ DistrictofColumbia-stub}} or {{ WashingtonDC-stub}}. Caerwine Caerwhine 03:18, 9 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Yes Grutness, I sang a little song on my merry little way. La la la...

I have no problem with renaming it, but let's make a redirect there to whatever the new stub is. The newcomers and non-cruftinators will be turned off to putting stubs on articles as guideposts to let others know that they're small and need to be improved, which is their only purpose anyway other than perhaps methods of categorization.
There's no need to propose anything when it can just be done. karmafist 03:42, 9 December 2005 (UTC) reply

    • As long as you remember to not be reckless. Creating new stub types is just the type of thing the be bold page advises editors to be cautious about as it is an action with widespread effects. Caerwine Caerwhine 05:03, 9 December 2005 (UTC) reply
      • If there are any issues, then something like the proposal page is warranted to gain consensus on what needs to be done to fix any problems. This little stub isn't hurting anybody, and it doesn't hurt to have it at least as a redirect to the actual stub for the newbies/people who don't regularly stub articles related to it and will find something else to do if it's too complicated. karmafist 16:04, 9 December 2005 (UTC) reply
        • Consensus has already been established and is reflected in the naming guidelines for stubs. Changing that guideline requires a proposal not the arbitrary creation of stubs that ignore those guidelines. Caerwine Caerwhine 17:41, 9 December 2005 (UTC) reply
          • Where was this consensus? When was it recognized? How many people agreed to it? Was it assumed to be in a well trafficked area of Wikipedia so other Wikipedians had notice that an attempt at consensus was being acquired? I don't know it, but I can bet you that it's not at the level of WP:AFD or WP:RFA or the ilk, which I consider acceptable. Please. Let me feel like this isn't being decided in some dark smoke filled room somewhere and that I won't have to jump through a large series of hoops or be stomped upon by some bureaucracy to help the articles that interest me. karmafist 00:26, 10 December 2005 (UTC) reply
        • It's on Wikipedia:Naming conventions. If that's not a prominent enough place, where would you prefer, the Main Page, perhaps? Grutness... wha? 03:16, 10 December 2005 (UTC) reply
          • And who decided what the naming conventions are, hmmm? karmafist 17:49, 11 December 2005 (UTC) reply
            • anyone who came along to discus them when it was advertised on the naming convention page that it was going on. lots of people did but you obviously werent intrested then. BL <small> kiss the lizard 04:50, 12 December 2005 (UTC) reply
              • If it's at all like the 12 people who decided to create WP:SFD, you'll forgive me if I'm non-plussed. — Locke Cole 08:08, 12 December 2005 (UTC) reply
            • Presumably not many people debated that simply because no-one objected to it. If the stub naming guidelines are as contentious as some people seem to suggest, there would surely have been loads of objections. Consider too how many people use these naming guidelines. There are over 100 people in the stub-sorting wikiproject alone, not to mention countless others in other wikiprojects around wikipedia who are more than happy to abide by them. Grutness... wha? 08:48, 12 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete as per my explanation above. If the systems needs to be reformed, then reform it rather than ignore it. Jokermage " Timor Mentum Occidit" 08:10, 12 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete as per User:Jokermage. DES (talk) 18:38, 13 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Keep as a redirect. -- SPUI ( talk) 01:16, 23 December 2005 (UTC) reply

Rename Cat:Pub stub

As with the Nazi stub below, the category needs a rename to end in the standard " stubs" as Cat:Pub stubs Caerwine Caerwhine 04:55, 9 December 2005 (UTC) reply

Do we even need Cat:Pub stubs? It's only ever had a few dozen stubs, and if the London ones were in Cat:London buildings and structures stubs (where they'd probably see more action) it would reduce it to about 40 stubs in total. I wouldn't object if this one was deleted. But failing that, yes, a rename would be useful. Grutness... wha? 14:10, 9 December 2005 (UTC) reply
Isn't this already covered by the bars in {{ restaurant-stub}}? Aecis praatpaal 19:01, 9 December 2005 (UTC) reply
There 59 stubs in this category. Weak delete, but rename if kept. Conscious 15:22, 9 December 2005 (UTC) reply
Rename as per nom. Alai 04:02, 15 December 2005 (UTC) reply

December 10th

{{ Denmark_bio-stub}} / Category:Denmark biographical stubs

Duplicate (except the word "Denmark" rather than "Danish") of {{ Denmark-bio-stub}} and Category:Danish people stubs. Was only used by three articles, and I've assigned those to the correct stub.

  • Delete per nom. -- Valentinian 10:40, 10 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per nom. It's too bad that this isn't speediable as a duplicate of an existing stub. Caerwine Caerwhine 10:48, 10 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ Newhampshire-stub}} (redirect)

Guess who? Delete. This is getting ridiculous. Karmafist seems determined to single-handedly stop all stub-sorting by having spend all our time hunting for his new creations. Grutness... wha? 23:49, 10 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • Delete per nom. Caerwine Caerwhine 00:46, 11 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • I feel that your comment about Karmafist is unwarrented. This stub redirect was originally created on December 6, which is before the other NH stub redirect was nominated for deletion. It is not a new creation. At worst, it is merely an previously unknown part of the original case. That being said, Delete. I don't think we in the NH project need that many stubs. Jokermage " Timor Mentum Occidit" 06:37, 11 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Comment: Suggest nom read WP:DICK and change the tone of his comments and nominations in the future. — Locke Cole 10:42, 11 December 2005 (UTC) reply
      • comment. having heard more of the story than you probably have i think it is karmafist who needs to read that. and delete btw. BL kiss the lizard 04:35, 12 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • And since the " WP:OWNers" of the stub system can't get consensus on a stub deletion(see below, they tried deleting this redirect yesterday and failed, they're trying again. I'm merging this attempt to the still open attempt, which they've failed at, as evidence of their hypocrisy. karmafist 17:39, 11 December 2005 (UTC) reply
      • Oh please, Karmafist, grow up. This redirect wasn't up for deletion yesterday. That one was {{ New Hampshire-stub}}, this one is {{ newhampshire-stub}}. See the difference? Secondly, that nomination hasn't failed yet, because (read this) a nomination for deletion requires a seven day waiting period. Aecis praatpaal 18:24, 11 December 2005 (UTC) reply
        • Oh wow, big difference there. One letter was capitalized. It's the exact same thing, and that's ultimately why I created it. I assume at this point I did create it since naming guidelines are obtuse to the frustrating several people i'm talking to on IRC have stopped bothering with anything other that {{ stub}} at all. karmafist 18:59, 11 December 2005 (UTC) reply
          • Yes, it's quite a big difference. You said that we, and I quote, "tried deleting this redirect yesterday and failed", and that we are now "trying again." Which is bullshit. This redirect wasn't nominated for deletion. Make sure you know what you're saying, or keep your big mouth shut. You were proven wrong, and there's no way you can wiggle your way out of this. Aecis praatpaal 19:21, 11 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Could I possibly suggest that every in the NH and DC stubs votes take some time and cool down? Jokermage " Timor Mentum Occidit" 19:51, 11 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • delete as per nom. DES (talk) 00:40, 13 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • 'comment I've just re-edited the 30 or so non-stub geography articles that karmafist added this redirect to in the last few days - articles of the size of Barrington, New Hampshire. He seems to have done the same with {{ New Hampshire-stub}}. More fun and games. Grutness... wha? 10:28, 19 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Keep as a redirect. -- SPUI ( talk) 01:15, 23 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ District of Columbia-stub}}

Not a redirect - a duplicate. Karmafist clearly decided we needed more work on this page, so there's this incorrectly named template to delete as well. If anyone wants to start an RFC against karmafist, let me know, because he's inching towards one... Grutness... wha? 23:39, 10 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • Delete per nom. Caerwine Caerwhine 00:46, 11 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Duplicate of what? Either way, it seems like we should keep this as a redirect to the template it duplicates; natural redirects are useful for editors. Christopher Parham (talk) 03:21, 11 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • A stub template redirect that violates the naming guidelines does not strike me as a "natural" redirect. In any case, both it and the stub that it duplicates were created without being proposed. Caerwine Caerwhine 03:37, 11 December 2005 (UTC) reply
      • Um, "name of thing"-"stub" seems pretty natural to me, in the same way that "name" would be a natural title for an article. And certainly proposing a page isn't a requirement for it to be created. Christopher Parham (talk) 03:55, 11 December 2005 (UTC) reply
        • The stub guidelines recommend proposing stubs on the proposals page first, not only so that the naming guidelines to be applied, but also to ensure that there are enough stubs that would use the proposed new stub. While the naming guidlines may need revising, they currently call for the stub to be named {{ DistrictofColumbia-stub}}. Revision to the naming guidlines should be done by a proposal, not by creating stub templates that violate that policy. Caerwine Caerwhine 04:19, 11 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Comment. I know you and Karmafist don't see eye to eye on these stub issues, but once again this is not a case of him creating new stubs just to annoy you. This stub was created on December 8, which was before the other DC stub was nominated. This is part of the original issue, not a new one. Jokermage " Timor Mentum Occidit" 06:48, 11 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • comment so what was the real estate stub that he created on december 9 after he knew not to create new stubs without proposing them? grutness and caerwine are right hes being a pain. (delete) BL kiss the lizard 04:52, 12 December 2005 (UTC) reply
      • I didn't see any reference to a real estate stub. Could you point it out to me? I still think that too many people are assuming bad faith on the part of others. Jokermage " Timor Mentum Occidit" 06:05, 12 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • on WSS/D BL kiss the lizard 07:12, 12 December 2005 (UTC) reply
      • I think you are reaching a bit with that argument. The same people in this discussion decided that it was a useful, but misnamed stub. They gave it the correct name and that was that. If he had created another misnamed redirect stub after the 9th, then I would agree with you. All of the MRS's had been created before the initial nomination, so accusations of deliberate sabotage are unfounded. All I am seeing is frustration on both sides which is why I suggested taking time to cool down. Accusations of POINTism and OWNerism will not help resolve this. Jokermage " Timor Mentum Occidit" 07:33, 12 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Before the nomination, yes, but after karmafist was informed on his user talk page that stub types had to be proposed first. Add to that karmafist's comment on my user talk page that he intends to continue creating redirects to stub templates (presumably irrespective of the naming guidelines or any decisions on these ones) and is it any wonder there's frustration? His message suggests that he will continue to do so "until stub naming becomes simple and intuitive" - presumably against the wishes of WP:WSS, whose naming guidelines are simple and intuitive. His redirects, by going against these naming guidelines, make the situation less simple and less intuitive. Grutness... wha? 07:46, 12 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • I didn't see that before. I've pretty much said all I wanted to anyway. Delete on the basis of Darkwikianism (as I understand it). Even if the stub process is not good, it is the best promoted by consensus to date and should be followed. I hope this dispute can be resolved without further escalation. Honestly, it's been like watching a train wreck in slow motion. Jokermage " Timor Mentum Occidit" 08:03, 12 December 2005 (UTC) reply
      • Tell me about it :/ Grutness... wha? 08:42, 12 December 2005 (UTC) reply
        • and, a week later, Karmafist starts creating pointless redirects contravening the naming guidelines again (see "Canadian-bio-stub", "American Football-stub" and "Television-stub" at the top of the page). It's getting harder and harder to see this as anything other than malicious. Grutness... wha? 06:36, 20 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • delete as per nom. DES (talk) 00:44, 13 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Keep as a redirect. -- SPUI ( talk) 01:14, 23 December 2005 (UTC) reply

December 11th

Rename of three Buildings and structures stub categories

Cat:Scottish buildings and structures stubs, Cat:UK buildings and structures stubs, and Cat:US buildings and structures stubs should be renamed to follow the pattern of the other buildings and structures stub categories to be Cat:Scotland buildings and structures stubs, Cat:United Kingdom buildings and structures stubs, and Cat:United States buildings and structures stubs. Not the most urgent of fixes, but as long as I noticed them while adding the new stub types for France, Italy, and Japan, I decided to bring them here. Caerwine Caerwhine 04:12, 11 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • rename. Sounds perfectly reasonable. While we're at it, should we drop the "s" from both "buildings" and "structures"? Grutness... wha? 08:54, 12 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • If we do, we'll need to bring the other eleven stubs to SfD as well. but other than that I would have no objection. Caerwine Caerwhine 14:57, 12 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Leave that for now, maybe, and just go for the renames you originally proposed - there's enough of a backlog of changes as it is. It looks like Mairi's on a wikibreak, so we're botless again :( Grutness... wha? 09:56, 13 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • I'm back now, and have the bot working away again. I probably won't have time for much other than bot work for the next week or so. -- Mairi 18:38, 15 December 2005 (UTC) reply

Rename of Law-related biographical stub categories

Both Cat:Law-related biographical stubs and the newly created Cat:American law-related biographical stubs have a small problem of parentage which I noticed as I created the latter for the {{ US-law-bio-stub}}. Namely what non-stub category should be its parent? The stub text suggests that Cat:Jurists would be approporiate (whihc includes lawyers, judges, and law professors, but instead the stub category had Cat:Law (which is too broad) as its non-stub parent. The parent was part of the the -related SFD of 24 November, but I've noted this nomination here. As named, the stub category would also seem to encompass non-jurists who have some relation to the law, but there do not exist non-stub categories that would correspond to that broader scope, while Cat:Jurists, Cat:American jurists and quite a number of cats in Cat:Jurists by nationality already exist. Therefor I recommend that we:

Rename to Cat:Jurist stubs and Cat:American jurist stubs and limit the scope to just jurists. This is not intended to affect the variety of redirects to {{ law-bio-stub}}. Jurist is not a common enough term that I would be comfortable with ditching the redirects from alternate names in this case. If the explict scoping is not felt to be appropriate then the previously planned rename to Cat:Law biography stubs and Cat:American law biography stubs should be carried out instead. Caerwine Caerwhine 17:19, 11 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • Seems reasonable to rename to something, but remember that "jurist" means something different in some countries (in commonwealth English it tends to mean someone who writes law books). Because of that, I'm not 100% convinced that that is the best name. Grutness... wha? 08:52, 12 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • In that case, I'll drop my objection. Grutness... wha? 09:54, 13 December 2005 (UTC) reply

December 13th

{{ Custom Stub}}

someones made a fix-all and confuse-everyone stub again. no catagory and this could give us several tens of thousands oif different types of catagory if it did have. luckily it was only used once. delete. can it be speedied as a recreation of something very similar thats been made before? BL kiss the lizard 05:09, 13 December 2005 (UTC) reply

hooboy yes, this one is a big mess of worms. delete thoroughly. Grutness... wha? 09:51, 13 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete, I don't see how this could be used in any correct way. So people add {{Custom Stub|veeblefetzer}} at the end of an article, and then what? How is anyone going to find a list of veeblefetzer stubs? There's no category for them, and "what links here" from {{ Custom Stub}} finds every other custom stub as well. This is useless. — JIP | Talk 12:11, 13 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Not the worst of ones, as it does file all its stubs into Cat:Stubs and only customizes the text. (It uses includeonly to keep the template itself out of the category.) I've done the same thing on occassion, but by substing the stub template and commenting the change (see Peter of Spain). That said, non-standard template name, likely to confuse, blah, blah, delete. Caerwine Caerwhine 12:20, 13 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete and I am the one who created the ill advised stub, Mea Culpa, I have seen the error of my ways. I would favor it being speedily removed. — Falerin< talk>,< contrib> 14:03, 13 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ New Mexico-politician-stub}}, {{ South Carolina-politician-stub}}

These templates should lose the space in their names:

Conscious 14:33, 13 December 2005 (UTC) reply

December 14th

Cat:Rock-album stubs

Only real problem with this is that the hyphen meeds to go. Rename to Cat:Rock album stubs. Caerwine Caerwhine 04:31, 14 December 2005 (UTC) reply

December 15th

{{ Search-engine-optimization-stub}}

No category, no indication it's ever been used either. Complex name, though not malnamed. But would we ever get anywhere near enough stubs to make this worthwhile? A search-engine-stub would probably struggle to reach threshold. But a search-engine-optimisation-stub? Delete. Grutness... wha? 10:20, 15 December 2005 (UTC) reply

Delete as per nom. -- Mairi 06:44, 29 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ ethnic-stub}} (redirect) Cat:Ethnicity stubs & {{ ethno-stub}}

The first two need at the very least to have some cleanup done with them, even if kept. As can be seen here the trouble began back around June, but it never did get completely cleared up. There are 44 stubs in Cat:Ethnicity stubs that with a null edit would be added to Cat:Ethnic group stubs instead and only three articles that use {{ ethnic-stub}}. Cat:Ethnicity is the parent of Cat:Ethnic groups in the non stub categories but the two stub categories have no linkage. With the proposed {{ ethno-activist-stub}} ready to be created, I discovered this situation as I was looking around to make certain I gave it the appropriate non-stub parent. Cat:Ethnicity stubs would seem to me to be a better parent for Cat:Minority rights activist stubs than Cat:Ethnic group stubs so I favor keeping the cat either with or wothout a stub template. However I see several alternatives here about what to do with {{ ethno-stub}} none of which I have a preference for at this time, but with the first two being discussed, it seemed approporiate to discuss it now.

  1. Leave {{ ethno-stub}} where it is and have Cat:Ethnicity stubs be a templateless stub category.
  2. Leave {{ ethno-stub}} where it is and give Cat:Ethnicity stubs a template of its very own.
  3. Rescope {{ ethno-stub}} to be the stub template of Cat:Ethnicity stubs and give Cat:Ethnic group stubs a new stub template such as {{ ethno-group-stub}}

I'm neutral about what to do with {{ ethnic-stub}} but I figured this was an appropriate time to discuss whether to officially bring it in out of the cold and add it to the list of approved redirects or to extinguish it. Caerwine Caerwhine 17:01, 15 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • Hang on a minute... Ethno-stub used to link to Cat:Ethnicity stubs. I thought it still did. Who changed it and why? Revert ethno-stub to its proper category and create a new ethno-group stub. Grutness... wha? 23:30, 15 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • It was changed by Stevertigo on June 9th this year. [1] Aecis praatpaal 09:58, 17 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • Agree, there should be an ethno-group stub. -- SwissCelt 06:27, 18 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Explanation from Ste| vertigo: Ethnicity cat should contain ethnic groups within it, but be reserved for concepts and topics in the science of "ethnicity." Having the groups list separate is vital, IMHO, and mixing them is bad organization. Sincerely - Ste| vertigo 19:06, 17 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Option 3 as per above. -- Mairi 00:55, 22 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Join 'em. Fewer is better in this case. Peter Isotalo 02:45, 26 December 2005 (UTC) reply

Comment It's clear that as far as {{ ethno-stub}} is concerned, option 3 is the consensus, but no one else seems to have commented on the {{ ethnic-stub}} redirect. Any opinions, cause without some, that part looks like it'll be closed with no consensus. Caerwine Caerwhine 19:25, 27 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • given that it's only been used three times, I don't think anyone would be too inconvenienced if it was deleted. We don't use adjectival stub names, anyway (not that "ethno" is exactly a noun form). Grutness... wha? 06:04, 29 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • I'd also go with delete (although it's now used more than 3 times), since we don't use adjectival forms, and it's not clear whether it ought to redirect to ethno-stub or ethno-group-stub. -- Mairi 06:35, 29 December 2005 (UTC) reply

Comment: I've created {{ ethno-group-stub}}, but splitting the existing articles between that and {{ ethno-stub}} ought to be done by hand... Mairi 22:32, 10 January 2006 (UTC) reply

I've orphaned {{ ethnic-stub}} and listed {{ ethno-group-stub}} at WP:WSS/T for population. I think the redirect can now be deleted and this discussion logged. Conscious 14:21, 15 January 2006 (UTC) reply
It's not quite orphaned, thanks to the oddities of how links to redirects are handled. Special:Whatlinkshere/Template:Ethnic-stub now has a few more pages listed, then it'll be orphaned. -- Mairi 00:44, 16 January 2006 (UTC) reply
Did you have to touch all articles with {{ ethnic-stub}}, or does Whatlinkshere list change on its own? Anyway, I sorted what was in Special:Whatlinkshere/Template:Ethnic-stub Conscious 06:34, 16 January 2006 (UTC) reply
I touched all the articles with in both categories. Links-to-redirects show up on the Whatlinkshere of the page that's redirected-to ({{ ethno-stub}} in this case), but since {{ ethnic-stub}} isn't a redirect anymore, its Whatlinkshere gets updated when the relevant articles get touched or editted. I'll delete it now, since it's (in theory) orphanned... -- Mairi 23:03, 16 January 2006 (UTC) reply

December 16th

{{ Kosovo-geo-stub}} / Cat:Kosovo geography stubs

We've recently twice deleted variations on a Kosovo-stub, so I doubt we want this more specific one. Also unlikely to be of sufficient size. Delete -- Mairi 08:49, 16 December 2005 (UTC) reply

delete for all the same reasons that we deleted {{ Kosovo-stub}}. Cat:Montenegro geography stubs is woefully undersized - this one would be far worse. Grutness... wha? 09:47, 16 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete for probably chronic undersizing. I don't know if I'd be opposed to this one if this were brought to the threshold level though (provided users stick by Kosovo and Metohija as it is). Aecis praatpaal 15:44, 16 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Comment At 202 stubs, Serbia-geo-stub is hardly oversized, but with only two autonomous provinces ( Kosovo and Vojvodina) I wouldn't be surprised if either had the necessary 60 stubs. However, I would ask that the usual 60 stubs be shown if we're to keep it. Caerwine Caerwhine 16:06, 16 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • According to google, there are roughly 30 to 40 stubs in the category. There are probably quite a few red links relating to Kosovo out there, so this one might become viable. Aecis praatpaal 16:19, 16 December 2005 (UTC) reply
      • I only noticed about 15-20 while I was swapping over the SM-geo-stub to the two separate stubs a couple of weeks ago. That google count is probably high (several of the non-Kosovo locations mentioned the place in their articles). Grutness... wha? 05:24, 17 December 2005 (UTC) reply
        • True. It could include Serbian towns that border Kosovo, for instance. Aecis praatpaal 09:54, 17 December 2005 (UTC) reply

December 17th

{{ Caucasus-geo-stub}}

A redirect now to georgia-geo-stub, this hasn't been used since Georgia, Azerbaijan and Armenia all got their own geo-stubs. delete. Grutness... wha? 22:53, 17 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ US-Mil-hist-stub}}

From the discoveries page. A miscapitalized redirect of {{ US-mil-hist-stub}}. Delete Caerwine Caerwhine 22:24, 17 December 2005 (UTC) reply

one of the less useful miscapitalisations. delete. Grutness... wha? 22:50, 17 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ P2P-stub}}

No category, recently created, unused. For peer-to-peer file sharing, which doesn't even have a main category. Delete; perhaps rename to {{ filesharing-stub}} (or such) if that'd be viable. -- Mairi 05:38, 17 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ pro-life-stub}} / Category:Pro-life stubs

Newly created and added to 10 articles. Inherently POV and inappropriate for an encyclopedia. Delete — Slicing ( talk) 05:16, 17 December 2005 (UTC) reply

an easy POV-target. I'd be inclined to delete them, too... but these are redlinks. What's the real names? Grutness... wha? 05:19, 17 December 2005 (UTC) reply
Neutrality deleted them one minute after I posted the listing here. — Slicing ( talk) 05:20, 17 December 2005 (UTC) reply
no problem, then :) Grutness... wha? 05:21, 17 December 2005 (UTC) reply
I've undeleted them temporarily, because of an out of process deletion. That said, Delete.-- Sean| Bla ck 05:24, 17 December 2005 (UTC) reply
Looks like Neutrality has deleted them again. Aecis praatpaal 17:25, 20 December 2005 (UTC) reply
Delete — MESSEDROCKER ( talk) 05:28, 17 December 2005 (UTC) reply
Delete with extreme prejudice. → Ξxtreme Unction { yakł blah} 05:32, 17 December 2005 (UTC) reply
Delete with prejudice. (I wouldn't've minded seeing them stay deleted either, regardless of how out-of-process it was.) -- Mairi 05:47, 17 December 2005 (UTC) reply
Oh, Delete, please, and stay deleted, IAR-time. Bishonen | talk 14:47, 17 December 2005 (UTC) reply
Delete: The contributor seems to be up to no good, and we are not in the business of inherently POV articles, stubby or long. Geogre 14:48, 17 December 2005 (UTC) reply
Delete At best this should be {{ abortion-stub}} for articles relating to any of the sides in this contentious issue, but it really should be brought to the prooposals page considering the potential
Delete, delete, delete. Per all delete votes above. Encourages ignoring WP:NPOV. (Or move the category to be under Category:Pages to be deleted? No, don't.) FreplySpang (talk) 15:44, 17 December 2005 (UTC) reply
Abort. The term itself is POV as it's a propaganda term used instead of the slighty less POV "anti-abortion". -- carlb 05:15, 18 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ college-stub}}

college-stub redirects to university-stub but college can mean high school as well. its ambiguous and isnt being used (no articles have it) so should be deleted. BL kiss the lizard 10:58, 17 December 2005 (UTC) reply

Neutral In modern American English it is unambiguously a school of tertiary education when used in the context of education, which is the main context the word is used. I won't vote to delete it, but I wouldn't fight to save it from those who consider it too ambiguous either. Caerwine Caerwhine 15:30, 17 December 2005 (UTC) reply
here its just as likely to mean a high school. the nearest high schools to where i live are kavanagh college and kaikorai college. BL kiss the lizard 18:36, 17 December 2005 (UTC) reply
I agree - In New Zealand "college" can simply mean a "more posh" high school (a collegiate school) - the same's true in Australia IIRC. It is a bit ambiguous. Grutness... wha? 22:50, 17 December 2005 (UTC) reply
Delete: If 1) nothing uses it and 2) it redirects, then losing it hurts nothing, and the people making the redirect already realized the problem of ambiguity. In the US, it currently means post-secondary education, but it didn't used to (hence the 2nd oldest public high school in the US is Baltimore City College). We gain nothing by the stub, and we contribute to confusion. Geogre 10:24, 19 December 2005 (UTC) reply

Cat:La Raza stubs

Was deleted. See Wikipedia:Stub types for deletion/Log/Not deleted/December 2005#December 17th. Conscious 14:23, 27 January 2006 (UTC) reply

December 18th

{{ VD and BE-geo-stubs}} / Category:Vaud and Berne geography stubs

For 2 geography stubs from two different Swiss cantons ( Vaud and Bern). And while cantons are the logical way of splitting {{ Switzerland-geo-stub}}, at < 600 articles it hardly needs splitting. And even so, I'm not sure why we'd want to combine these two, and we certainly wouldn't want that template name. Delete. -- Mairi 04:42, 18 December 2005 (UTC) reply

totally unnecessary, and if we were going to split Switzerland we'd do it by individual cantons, not pairs of them. 'delete. This isn't the by the same editor who made that horrible grisons-stub a few months back is it? Grutness... wha? 09:24, 18 December 2005 (UTC) reply

December 20th

{{ Canadian-bio-stub}}

Unnecessary and unused bio-stub redirect. Created two days ago. By karmafist. Sigh. Delete. Grutness... wha? 06:30, 20 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ hardware-cvg-stub}} → {{ cvg-hardware-stub}}

While we do have stub templates of both the form *-cvg-stub and cvg-*-stub, the former are all used for genres and the pattern has been to place the cvg component where it would in ordinary language. Since this is for CVG hardware and not for "hardware computer and video games" I recommend we rename the template and delete the original. Caerwine Caerwhine 18:31, 20 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ film-awards-stub}} / Category:Film awards stubs → {{ film-award-stub}} / Category:Film award stubs

From plural to singular. Aecis praatpaal 14:08, 20 December 2005 (UTC) reply

December 21st

{{ Looney-tunes-stub}} → {{ LooneyTunes-stub}}

No hyphen, capital T, per similar names. Aecis praatpaal 16:36, 21 December 2005 (UTC) reply

Cat:Short films stubs → Cat:Short film stubs

From plural to singular. Aecis praatpaal 16:40, 21 December 2005 (UTC) reply

December 22nd

{{ world-music-song-stub}} → {{ worldmusic-song-stub}}

Rename misnamed template. -- Bruce1ee 09:01, 22 December 2005 (UTC) reply

Summary: Moved and redirect kept. -- TheParanoidOne 22:55, 29 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ American Football-stub}}

Karmafist strikes again. Delete this misnamed unused redirect. Grutness... wha? 07:46, 22 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • At least this time he picked a worthy target. {{ Amfootball-stub}} doesn't follow the naming guidelines 100% because of the abreviated American and it gets worse when you consider that instead of {{ Amfootballbio-stub}} the associated biography stub is {{ Amfootbio-stub}} instead. That said having a template that doesn't follow the naming guidelines 100% doesn't call for adding a redirect that violates them worse. Delete per nom. Caerwine Caerwhine 13:57, 22 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete {{ American Football-stub}} and {{ Amfootball-stub}}, and replace them with {{ AmericanFootball-stub}}. Aecis praatpaal 22:54, 22 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • On second thoughts, that's a far better solution. Grutness... wha? 01:11, 23 December 2005 (UTC) reply
      • You mean {{ Americanfootball-stub}} don't you? The football here isn't a proper noun, which is as it should be, since the rest of the world keeps telling us that there is nothing proper about our football. Caerwine Caerwhine 02:23, 23 December 2005 (UTC) reply
        • oops - right you are gov. Yes, it was {{ Americanfootball-stub}} that I meant. Grutness... wha? 06:31, 23 December 2005 (UTC) reply
        • You're absolutely right, Caerwine: there's nothing proper about your football ;) I don't see why the template should be renamed to {{ Americanfootball-stub}} though. Aecis praatpaal 00:24, 24 December 2005 (UTC) reply
          • Because the naming guidelines call for avoiding abbreviations, except those on out exceptions list. We don't use "Am" as a abbreviation for the United States, nor should we, It's an inobvious abbreviation that only a lover of jargon could love. At best I could see using an abbrevated version of "Americanfootball" to form combination stubs, but at the root level for the topic, the unabbreviated version should be available to those who don't memorize the stublist. Ideally, no one should be forced to consult the stub list to find a proper name for single hyphen stub that exists and follows the basic naming conventions. Caerwine Caerwhine 05:55, 24 December 2005 (UTC) reply
        • This one might be a bit too non-intuitive, but in some countries (such as NZ & Australia) the sport is called gridiron. We have hoops-stub for basketball... how would gridiron-stub do? Yeah, okay, I know - bad idea. Grutness... wha? 06:00, 24 December 2005 (UTC) reply
          • While I think that term is fairly well-known in the US, gridiron football indicates that it's used to also refer to Canadian football. So it might not be the best choice... -- Mairi 06:54, 24 December 2005 (UTC) reply
            • Except for a few minor rule differences, the two games are essentially the same, much as rugby union and rugby league are essentially the same game. Having {{ gridiron-stub}} as a redirect (or even the base stub) would be fine with me. Caerwine Caerwhine 07:49, 24 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete If it's unused then why bother keeping it. -- Thorri 12:47, 25 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete as per thorri Circeus 02:02, 28 December 2005 (UTC) reply

December 23rd

{{ Tolkienstub}} to {{ tolkien-stub}}

The stub template name needs a hyphen. This is a move that has already been requested at requested moves back in June, but nothing was done with that request. Another thing that might need fixing is the parent category, Cat:Tolkien stubs. It lists Cat:Tolkien stub as a subcategory, which is simply a redirect to Cat:Tolkien stubs. I don't believe this circular categorization is what we need. Aecis praatpaal 00:14, 23 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • sounds completely reasonable. support. And category redirects don't work anyway, so there's no real need to have the Cat:Tolkien stub redirect at all. Grutness... wha? 01:07, 23 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Keep the resulting template redirect. -- SPUI ( talk) 01:12, 23 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • move and delete the incorrectly named tolkienstub. BL kiss the lizard 06:18, 23 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Support as per BL Circeus 02:01, 28 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ US-northeast-geo-stub}} and Cat:Northeastern US geography stubs

every state in the US NE now has its own =geotemplat and no stubs use this template any more. so why do we need it? delete BL kiss the lizard 07:47, 23 December 2005 (UTC) reply

An alternative would be to redefine the northeast for the purposes of stub sorting. While we have been using the Census Bureau's split, that was likely because map images showing the regions were already on the wiki. There are other splits out there that would include Maryland, Delaware, and DC. Delaware and DC don't yet have geo stubs of their own, so making the move would keep this stub as viable and bring the southern geo stubs down to a single page. On the other hand, making this change would involve a good deal more work. Either change scope or delete. Caerwine Caerwhine 00:49, 24 December 2005 (UTC) reply
Lordy, it is empty! Yet another possibility might be to keep the category as a holding pen for those states, but delete the template. That would mean 1) no states in among the regions in the main US geo-stub category; 2) no constant emptying of US northeast into separate state categories. That would be a reasonable temporary solution until such times as all US states have categories (but given that Delaware has five geo-stubs, that may still be a while away). Grutness... wha? 01:01, 24 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Keep as holding pen regional stuff is likely to end up dumped there too. Circeus 01:53, 29 December 2005 (UTC) reply

Summary: Template deleted. Category kept as a container for the individual state categories. -- TheParanoidOne 15:26, 31 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ New Hampshire politician-stub}}

another karmafist special. unused. misnamed. unneccesary. delete. BL kiss the lizard 06:29, 23 December 2005 (UTC) reply

(rolls eyes) delete. Grutness... wha? 06:41, 23 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Keep, useful redirect. Christopher Parham (talk) 07:35, 23 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • whats the point in having rules for naming things if we keep templates which dont follow those rules? BL kiss the lizard 07:51, 23 December 2005 (UTC) reply
      • This doesn't violate any naming conventions; there are no naming conventions for redirects. Christopher Parham (talk) 07:55, 23 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • It's a stub type. there are naming rules for stub types. BL kiss the lizard 09:52, 23 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Keep a useful redirect. Please take redirects to WP:RFD, their proper place. -- SPUI ( talk | don't use sorted stub templates!) 16:45, 23 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per nom. Caerwine Caerwhine 00:34, 24 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete - created to prove a point. Aecis Mr. Mojo risin' 13:35, 25 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • delete Circeus 02:00, 28 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete about the only case where I can see redirects-with-spaces being reasonably useful is spaces within proper nouns, or other such names (and I'm not even sure that's all that useful). But this isn't that case. -- Mairi 07:01, 29 December 2005 (UTC) reply

December 24th

Category:Television biographical stubs to Category:Television biography stubs

Proposed name follows the [noun]-stub model. Aecis praatpaal 00:21, 24 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • support. makes sense to keep it consistent Grutness... wha? 00:55, 24 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Rename per nom. Caerwine Caerwhine 01:18, 24 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Support Je crois que c'est rationnel. -- Thorri 12:44, 25 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Support I also agree that it makes sense. ( Davehard 12:35, 26 December 2005 (UTC) ) reply
  • Support clearer name. Circeus 01:58, 28 December 2005 (UTC) reply

December 27th

Four Ancient Egypt stub types

Proposed today and created today. Unfortunately, between the time of proposal and creation, debate was clearly heading towards three of these being unnecessary and the fourth being made with another name. What's more, none of these have dedicated categories. None of them have been used on any articles. Grutness... wha? 11:23, 27 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ Ancient-Egypt-military-stub}}

If needed, it should be {{ Ancient-Egypt-mil-stub}}, but with only 350 Ancient Egypt stubs, it's unnecessary - it's unlikely to get anywhere near 60 stubs. At least rename it and give it a category, but preferably delete. Grutness... wha? 11:13, 27 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • Delete per nom. Caerwine Caerwhine
  • delete Circeus 01:57, 28 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete Valentinian 19:55, 28 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • delete. BL kiss the lizard 08:09, 29 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. Grutness is very wise: stubs are meant to help people find articles in need of work, not to categorize topics endlessly. And 350 is hardly an unwiedly size for a category. -- llywrch 22:16, 30 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • Thanks for the compliment, but it's standard stub-sorting practice, so it's not really "my" wisdom! :) Grutness... wha? 22:31, 31 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ Ancient-Egypt-building-stub}}

If needed, it should be {{ Egypt-struct-stub}}, but at last count there were only 12 Egyptian structures, ancient or modern, with stubs, it's unnecessary. At least rename it and give it a category, but preferably delete. Grutness... wha? 11:13, 27 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ Ancient-Egypt-bio-stub}}

{{ Greece-bio-stub}} covers both ancient and modern Greece adequately with no problems. {{ Egypt-bio-stub}} - which already exists - covers both ancient and modern Egypt with no problems. Delete this one. Grutness... wha? 11:13, 27 December 2005 (UTC) reply

PS - for the time being, I've made this a redirect to Egypt-bio-stub. Grutness... wha? 11:19, 27 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Keep as a redirect from an alternate name per nom. Caerwine Caerwhine 19:17, 27 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • um... how can you say "keep as a redirect per nom", when the nominator said "delete"? My redirect was only a temporary one, rather than creating a category we might have to delete again. Grutness... wha? 09:51, 29 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • redirect Circeus 01:57, 28 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • delete per nom BL kiss the lizard 08:09, 29 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. I might have voted "keep" on this, but I doubt Egyptian bio-stubs from other historical periods will ever grow large enough to force us to split this category again. (And if that is the case, let's make the stubs into articles!) -- llywrch 22:16, 30 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Keep the redirect. -- SPUI ( talk - don't use sorted stub templates!) 07:13, 3 January 2006 (UTC) reply

{{ Ancient-Egypt-mythology-stub}}

The only one which I'd vote to keep, but since we have {{ Greek-myth-stub}}, {{ Norse-myth-stub}} etc, this should be {{ Egyptian-myth-stub}}. Rename, and give it a dedicated category. Grutness... wha? 11:13, 27 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • Rename per nom to fit the naming convention for *-myth-stub, but also keep as a redirect from an alternate name. Caerwine Caerwhine 19:17, 27 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • rename no need to redirect. someoe tryingto categorize that wouldbe familiar enoughto get the right template.. Circeus 01:57, 28 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • This is getting ridiculous. This has been re-created with the new proposed name in the middle of a vote - there is still no correct category link, and the new name has a sfd notice on it. What's more, it was recreated by copy and paste - the old template still exists. Yorktown, please stop messing around with the template in the middle of a vote! Since there is now a completely separate template with a more standard name, there's no need to keep this old one or redirect it - the situation has changed enough that we probably need to start this vote all over again... Grutness... wha? 02:34, 28 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete Taking a closer look, I see I misread it. I could see keeping {{ Ancient-Egypt-myth-stub}} as a redirect from an alternate name, but not the -mythology- form. After all, we have {{ Ancient-Rome-myth-stub}} instead of {{ Roman-myth-stub}}. Caerwine Caerwhine 04:56, 28 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • delete. BL kiss the lizard 08:09, 29 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Rename. I created the original {{ Ancient-Egypt-stub}} about a year or so ago, I was amazed at how many myth-related subs about ancient Egypt there were. I suspect this will always be a large category, no matter how many are turned into articles. (As an aside, one other category whose creation is defensible would be {{ Ancient-Egypt-geo-stub}} for the ancient nomes & archeological sites -- or the appropriate version per the standards.) -- llywrch 22:16, 30 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • yes and no - although I see your point, we only split geo-stubs by present county, otherwise things could get very messy (for instance,a place in Turkey, could get a Turkey-geo-stub, Ottoman-geo-stub, Arabia-geo-stub, Ancient-Rome-geo-stub and Ancient-Greece-geo-stub). Keeping geo-stubs to current political boundaries keeps stub-sporting simpler without disadvantagine editrs, since if a place has a very stong link to one historical period it could be double stubbed ( Corinium, for instance, is marked with Ancient-Rome-stub and Gloucestershire-geo-stub). Grutness... wha? 22:31, 31 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Rename to {{ Egyptian-myth-stub}}. {{ Ancient-Egypt-myth-stub}} would be fine as a redirect as per Caerwine. It also needs to have a category created. -- Mairi 05:03, 2 January 2006 (UTC) reply

Author's Note:

After much consideration I have decided to delete {{ Ancient-Egypt-military-stub}}. As for the other 3 stubs I am going to keep them. There are several dozen Ancient Egyptian pharaohs from this time period hence need for {{ Ancient-Egypt-bio-stub}}. I am going to rename {{ Ancient-Egypt-mythology-stub}} to {{ Ancient-Egypt-myth-stub}}. In regards to {{ Ancient-Egypt-building-stub}} there are over 60 unnamed pyramids in The Valley of The Kings that would fall under this category as well as several other Egyptian monuments. Though I will rename it {{ Ancient-Egypt-struct-stub}}. Thank you for your time.

Yorktown1776 14:49, 27 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • Those 60 unnamed pyramids are all located in Egypt and since {{ Egypt-struct-stub}} is hardly full (it doesn't even exist yet) I fail to see the need to split off a separate stub for just Ancient Egypt at this time. Indeed, since they are unnamed, I find it highly unlikely that they are individually notable enough for each to have a separate article in a general purpose encylcopedia. Caerwine Caerwhine 19:17, 27 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Please wait until the sfd process is done rather than making what look like fairly arbitrary renames and other changes. Ancient-Egypt-struct-stub and Ancient-Egypt-myth-stub are still unacceptable names, so if you make those changes, they'll simply come back here to sfd anyway - making more work for everyone in the process. As to the 60 unnamed pyramids, if they do not all articles, then there is no need for a stub category for them. Also I don't know what you mean by the military stub being "removed" - it still exists and will still need to be dealt with. Grutness... wha? 23:17, 27 December 2005 (UTC) reply

December 28th

{{ Ancient-Egypt-struct-stub}}

Seeing that {{ ancient-Egypt-building-stub}} was listed for deletion (see below), the creator of it re-created it at a new name (not a redirect, a new stub!). It's still the wrong name (it would be {{ Egypt-struct-stub}} if needed), and it's still not needed. Delete. Grutness... wha? 00:17, 28 December 2005 (UTC) reply

December 29th

{{ Baseballbat-stub}}

BJAODN, anyone? Szyslak ( [ +t, +c, +m, +e ]) 12:17, 29 December 2005 (UTC) reply

December 30th

{{ Mass-stub}} (redirect)

sadly this doesn't match the bat one for silliness. This is a redirect - ah, but to what? Massachusetts-stub, apparently (one which isn't listed as existing anywhere that I can see...). But it could just as easily refer to religious services, or to weights and measures, so it's really too ambiguous to be in any way useful. Oh, and it doesn't appear ever to have been used, either. Grutness... wha? 06:32, 30 December 2005 (UTC) reply

Strong Keep (but see my change below) In Massachusetts, "Mass" is very often used as a substitute for "Massachusetts." "Massachusetts" is also a very long word that is often misspelled even by Massachusetts residents. Thus, "Mass" is a useful abbreviation. - Mark Adler (Markles) 11:53, 30 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per Grutness. Mass is indeed frequently used for Massachusetts, and would therefore have been very useful if it hadn't also had other meanings. I'm afraid this one is too ambiguous, which is sad, because Massachusetts is indeed probably the hardest state name in the US. Perhaps {{ Massach-stub}} is an option? Aecis Mr. Mojo risin' 13:46, 30 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete is fine per Mairi. I'll concede defeat here. Mairi's idea is a good enough compromise: US-MA-stub or US-Mass-stub. - Mark Adler (Markles) 19:51, 30 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • i dont like redirects, but i cant spell well either, so US-MA-stub sounds good :) BL kiss the lizard 22:20, 30 December 2005 (UTC) reply

December 31st

{{ Notgaybaseballbat-stub}}

Delete Duplicate of {{ Baseballbat-stub}} from the same creator, but this one was apparently designed to save time by preincluding the {sfd-t} notice. Caerwine Caerwhine 18:57, 31 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ Gloucestershire-stub}} and Cat:Gloucestershire stubs

As noted by Circeus at the discoveries talk page, it's time the backlog was cleaned. This is one of the most obvious candidates. Created on September 23, used on 1 article since then. Delete. And have a happy New Year! Conscious 14:56, 31 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • delete none of the other counties have one, and there's no real reason for any of them to have one. Grutness... wha? 23:00, 31 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete Circeus 16:23, 1 January 2006 (UTC) reply

{{ Argentina-poli-stub}} and Cat:Argentina politics stubs

Created on August 29, used on 8 articles since then. Delete. Conscious 16:17, 31 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ Iraq-war-stub}}

Created on June 17, not used at all. Delete. Conscious 18:18, 31 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ Organometallic-compound-stub}} / Cat:Organometallic compound stubs, {{ Organometallic-compound-start}} / Cat:Incomplete organometallic compound articles

These are a bit trickier. Created on October 30, used on 1 and 3 articles respectively. I think that the second pair is still in the SFD scope, as the template wording suggests. The parent type {{ organic-compound-stub}} is quite populated (<700). I say we delete all these and re-create when and if it is desirable in the process of splitting {{ organic-compound-stub}}. Conscious 18:18, 31 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • Probably need a word with the wikiproject that deals with this one, but start vs stub isn't really a useful differentiation - it reeks of stub vs substub. There may be some use of an organometallic-compound-stub sooner or later, so I'd be amenable to a merge of these two, but given how little used they are, deletion would also be a reasonable option. Grutness... wha? 23:00, 31 December 2005 (UTC) reply
Retrieved from " https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Wikipedia:Stub_types_for_deletion/Log/Deleted/December_2005&oldid=1089370046"
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

December 1st

{{ Helsinki-stub}} / Category:Helsinki stubs

Not sure why this hasn't been noticed before, but there's no WikiProject Helsinki, and in nine months this category has attracted a scant 20 stubs, most of which could easily be fitted into the hardly overpopulated Cat:Finland geography stubs. I think this one could easily be culled. Grutness... wha? 12:07, 1 December 2005 (UTC) reply

I'd noticed it, but had other things I'd rather tend to first, but since it's been nominated, delete. Caerwine 14:48, 1 December 2005 (UTC) reply
Keep, I don't see why a city would have to have a WikiProject in order to have its own stub. I have created many articles as Helsinki-stubs, and I feel it helps distinguish them from Finland-stubs, which could be anywhere in Finland, even in places I've never visited. I would even prefer Tampere and Turku to have their own stubs. — JIP | Talk 15:08, 1 December 2005 (UTC) reply
Delete, they are too few. Conscious 17:52, 1 December 2005 (UTC) reply
Delete; I'm becoming less keen on our no subdivision-stubs without a wikiproject, but 20 stubs is too few to justify keeping either way. -- Mairi 22:20, 1 December 2005 (UTC) reply
cool. Not that it matters much; I find it surprising just how insignificant matters people deal with here, following a formal sexual procedure. In any case, some justification for my opinion: 1) I'm quite sure that there are _lots_ more articles in en.wiki that could be labeled as Helsinki stubs, but haven't been yet, 2) not all the articles fit "Finland geography stubs": some of them are about restaurants and other miscellaneous places of interest, for example. -- Jonik 19:36, 11 December 2005 (UTC) reply
Comment: If the Helsinki-stub template and category are deleted, the Helsinki stubs that aren't about geography can be made into Finland stubs. But I still stand by my keep vote. — JIP | Talk 12:29, 13 December 2005 (UTC) reply
'delete 20? a good editor shouldve cleared it by now! BL kiss the lizard 01:47, 14 December 2005 (UTC) reply

As it happened there were only five non-geographical stubs anyway, all of which now have finland-stub plus a "type"-stub (e.g., restaurant-stub). Grutness... wha? 06:06, 17 December 2005 (UTC). reply

December 2nd

Cat:Quaker-related stubs

It was suggested that the category be renamed.

{{ Maryland-Stub}} & Cat:Maryland-related stubs

It was suggested that the stub be deleted instead.

  • Delete No WikiProject and only 4 stubs. At a minimum the template needs renaming, even if kept.
  • Delete. May be useful later, but not now if there are only four stubs. Grutness... wha? 00:31, 3 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Comment: I found 93 suitable stubs relating to Maryland (ignoring biography articles). So it could certainly be of sufficient size. Whether we want state stubs is a different matter. -- Mairi 03:58, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply

Cat:Eastern Orthodox Christianity-related stubs

It was suggested that the category be renamed.

{{ Salvador-stub}} & Cat:El Salvador-related stubs

It was suggested that the stub be renamed as well.

{{ Hong-Kong-stub}} & Cat:Hong Kong-related stubs

It was suggested that the template be renamed as well.

TODO: 1) Change all Hong-Kong-stub to HongKong-stub 2) Move everything else out of the -related category. -- TheParanoidOne 16:07, 14 December 2005 (UTC) reply

Done -- TheParanoidOne 18:45, 17 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ PNG-stub}} & Cat:Papua New Guinea-related stubs

It was suggested that the stub be deleted instead.

  • Comment Only 24 stubs, the same as Nauru (see above) but unlike Nauri there's considerable potential for more stubs and it has a geography stub category with 76 stubs. I'm neutral on keeping it, but if kept, it should be renamed {{ PapuaNewGuinea-stub}} & Cat:Papua New Guinea stubs, with {{ PNG-stub}} kept as a redirect. Caerwine 21:58, 2 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Keep - this has enough potential. I've no real qualms about PNG-stub, either, since it's a very widely used abbreviation, though perhaps keeping it as the redirect only is better. Grutness... wha? 00:31, 3 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Keep, possibly rename. Firstly, there's plenty of potential for more, and it's a perfectly worthy stub topic. Secondly, I'm fairly sure that the current category is far from comprehensive; I do a bit of work in the area, and I think there's quite a few stubs in the area that just haven't been tagged. Ambi 03:22, 9 December 2005 (UTC) reply

Template kept. Category renamed. -- TheParanoidOne 06:45, 21 December 2005 (UTC) reply

Category:Guyana-related stubs

Renamed to "Guyana stubs". See complete discussion here. -- TheParanoidOne 18:56, 27 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ JewHist-stub}} & Cat:Jewish history-related stubs

It was suggested that the template be renamed as well.

  • A definite rename of the category to Cat:Jewish history stubs so as match the parent catgeory. Could live with any of {{ Jewish-history-stub}} {{ Jewish-hist-stub}}, {{ Hebrew-stub}}, or {{ Hebrew-hist-stub}}. The latter two have a slight advantage of separating the ethnicity form the religion, but they also get a conontation for certain branches of Christian theology that would be both too narrow and too POV that could be problematic, so I have no firm opinon as to which if the three if any would be preferable. Caerwine 21:44, 2 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • Caerwine: You are mistaken, one huge problem with applying the word "Hebrew" is that it will be confused with the Hebrew language, so do NOT use "Hebrew" here no matter what you do! I am the original creator of this stub and based it on the fact that it begins with the article Jew, and Jews are both a religion and an ethnicity, so I do not understand your "worries" here. Also, If you must, then {{ Jewish-hist-stub}} is better. IZAK 09:52, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • rename cat, and rename template to {{ Jewish-hist-stub}}, since we use hist, not history. The other suggestions overlap too much with other template names in thsi confusing part of the stubbiverse. Grutness... wha? 00:31, 3 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • Grutness, I do not understand what you say, what "category" should be "renamed"? What's wrong with Category:Jewish history-related stubs??? IZAK 09:52, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
      • Like all other stub categories which contained the word "-related", it needs to be renamed to simply ""Jewish history stubs". And since all the other history stub templates use the form xxx-hist-stub, this should be Jewish-hist-stub. No-one is talking about getting rid of the category and stub, simply renaming them to be like all the others. Grutness... wha? 11:22, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
      • Grutness's explanation now makes sense of this. IZAK 11:37, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Keep because the stub is fine, as explained in my comments to Caerwine and Grutness above. IZAK 09:52, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • Rename to {{ Jewish-hist-stub}} (as I already partly-indicated above in my initial response in any case -- just that I was concerned about possible gross mishandling of this important stub). I am changing my vote, assured by Grutness's explanation to me at User talk:IZAK#JewHist-stub at SFD IZAK 11:37, 6 December 2005 (UTC) : "Hi IZAK - you seem to be confused about what is happening at SFD. No-one is talking about getting rid of the template and category, simply renaming them to be in line with the stub naming conventions. All that means is that {{ JewHist-stub}} and Cat:Jewish history-related stubs would become {{ Jewish-hist-stub}} and Cat:Jewish history stubs. It would be a bit silly having this category as "xxx-related stubs" when all the others are "xxx stubs" (which they will be within a week), or having "JewHist-stub" when all other history stub subcategory templates are of the form xxx-hist-stub. I'd ask you to please reconsider your vote. Grutness... wha? 11:21, 6 December 2005 (UTC)" Thanks for the input. IZAK 11:40, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Rename to Jewish history stubs. JFW |  T@lk 10:08, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Clear keep, and Definite oppose to the deletion of the stubcat. I realize some people are hypersensitive about the use of "Jew" as an adjective...clearly neither IZAK nor I object to it, and we're two of the most recognizable of the Jew-POV-face of WP, so to the rest of youse, I say, "chill out already!" (and I'm not even ashkenazi!!!) Yeah, the stub name isn't politically correct, but it wasn't meant to be either politically correct or incorrect...it was meant to be used as a shorthand for NPOV editors of Jewish history related stubs and articles. Chill out w/ the hypersensitivity, leave the stub and its name alone, and leave the stub cat intact. Tom e r talk 10:33, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
      • Changing to rename per Grutness' and Humus' responses to IZAK's recommendation. Tom<font color="#008000"> e r talk 19:39, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • Err, Tomer...I am not guilty of "Jew-POV-face" on WP -- I happen to be one of the best NPOV editors on WP of topics relating to Jews and Judaism, and I know that you are also that as well (so I will attribute your playful comments about me here to your inherently upbeat personality, and nothing else.) IZAK 10:40, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
      • Keep your chin up.  :-D Tom e r talk 19:39, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Whatever you do, do not rename into Hebrews and do not attempt to separate ethnicity from religion for an ethno-religious group. I also don't have a problem with "Jew***". ← Humus sapiens ←ну? 10:44, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • I would tend to rename to {{ Jewish-hist-stub}}, but {{ JewHist-stub}} seems fine to me. Category seems fine to me as either Cat:Jewish history-related stubs or Cat:Jewish history stubs. Absolute no on "Hebrew" which in contemporary English mainly means the language, not the people. - Jmabel | Talk 19:52, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Rename as per Grutness and Humus Sapiens. Jayjg (talk) 23:13, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Rename as it makes the category names consistent with each other. gidonb 02:43, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply

TODO: "JewHist-stub" -> "Jewish-hist-stub". -- TheParanoidOne 20:47, 22 December 2005 (UTC) reply

update : Itlooks as though this discussion ended, and the necessary changes were made. Are there any loose ends, or can this discussion be archived? -- EncycloPetey 06:57, 26 December 2005 (UTC) reply

You can now. it still had to be orphaned and the original name deleted. That's now been done. Grutness... wha? 09:00, 26 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ Azerbaijan-stub}} & Cat:Azerbaijan-related stubs

It was suggested that the stub be deleted instead.

  • Delete Too few stubs. Caerwine 21:35, 2 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Well, I suppose there are not that many stubs, because I created the category not a few weeks ago. Where I suppose to put Azebaijan-related stubs, that are not Category:Azerbaijan geography stubs? I suggest merging Category:Azerbaijan geography stubs into the Category:Azerbaijan-related stubs abakharev 23:32, 2 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • There's also {{ Azeri-stub}} (same scope, seperate template) and {{ Azeri}} (redirect) which should go, regardless of what happens with this. -- Mairi 00:24, 3 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete Azeri-stub and Azeri, redirect Azerbaijan-stub to {{ caucasus-stub}} (which is the answer to your question, Alex!) Grutness... wha? 00:31, 3 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Keep. How are people supposed to fill gaps in our coverage of underrepresented countries such as Azerbaijan if they can't find said gaps? Ambi 03:22, 9 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • As with Nauru, above, the answer is that editors able to extend Azerbaijan articles are very likely to be able to also extend articles on Georgia and Armenia, and as such, having these articles in one moderately populated category rather than three sparsely populated categories helps them, as well as making in more rather than less likely that the articles will be edited, since an editor who - for example - knows a lot about Armenia but a slight amount about Azerbaijan would see these articles listed when they might not otherwise have seen them at all. Grutness... wha? 03:38, 10 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • delete and merge with caucasus-stub. BL kiss the lizard 09:52, 11 December 2005 (UTC) reply

Summary: Template redirected to {{ Caucasus-stub}}. Category deleted. -- TheParanoidOne 22:28, 27 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ RC-stub}} & Cat:Catholic-related stubs

It was suggested that both the template and the category be renamed.

  • Rename to {{ RomanCatholic-stub}} & Cat:Roman Catholic Church stubs Caerwine 21:35, 2 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Either rename as per Caerwine or expand scope and rename simply as catholic-stub. Grutness... wha? 00:31, 3 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Rename as per Caerwine. Oppose a rescope, without being much clearer about what the new scope would be. Alai 06:35, 4 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Either Rename to Catholic-stub per Grutness if acceptable (see objections claiming that secular understanding includes all other sects claiming 'Catholic' name), else Retain as is. But, seriously, how long will this vote be? Be quick, this is looking awkward! WikiSceptic 14:37, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Rename as per Caerwine -- SockpuppetSamuelson 14:40, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Retain {{ RC-stub}} and rename Cat:Roman Catholic stubs The scope of this should be as it is now, Catholic Church related stubs, not other Catholic sects or offshoots. Dominick (TALK) 15:32, 7 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Keep RC-stub but create sub-stub like Catholic texts, Catholic theologian, Catholic buildings, etc. -- Psy guy Talk 20:01, 12 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Keep the stub name as there are over 800 pages that have used it. Rename the category if there is an automated/bot way of fixing up the pages. -- Fplay 13:36, 15 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • comment - there is, and it's exacly the same amount of work to change a template and category as it is to change a category alone. So if that's the only objection, it's not that relevant... Grutness... wha? 06:19, 29 December 2005 (UTC) reply

Summary: Template remained as {{ RC-stub}}, category renamed to Cat:Roman Catholic Church stubs ({{ RomanCatholic-stub}} was created as a redirect tho). -- Mairi 06:57, 29 December 2005 (UTC) reply

December 3rd

Galicia * stubs

To quote Mairi at WP:WSS/D: A variant of the first one ({{ Galician-stub}}) was deleted a month ago, so that could be speedied. However, it's the only one of these that looks possibly viable; but there's still the issue of how to distinguish that these are for the Spanish Galicia and not the Ukrainian/Polish Galicia.

These stubs accompany a brand new WikiProject... but, as the boilerplate text for making WikiProjects states, "DO NOT simply create new stub templates, as these will probably be deleted". QED. The first of these templates is potentially viable, and there is a proposal on the table for splitting Spain's geography stubs (though it is far from clear that this would be the best way). The others are unnecessary, as the parent Spanish categories are nowhere near splittable level (270 Spanish people-stubs and 54 Spanish writer-stubs, even including the Galician ones!). In any case Spain-bio-stub wouldn't be split by region but by occupation. Given that there is a WikiProject, a simple galicia-stub (or GaliciaES-stub, perhaps?) is probably worthwhile, leading into a category called Cat:Galicia (Spain) stubs, but the others should be merged with it and then deleted. Grutness... wha? 03:09, 3 December 2005 (UTC) reply

A definite delete on all but the root Galician stub unless a lot more can can be found. I'd prefer {{ GaliciaSpain-stub}} & Cat:Galicia (Spain) stubs but could live with {{ Galicia-stub}} since judging by the difference between the numbers of articles that feed into the categories of the two Galicias, it will be a long time, if ever, before a Galicia-Lodomeria stub be needed. Caerwine 04:52, 3 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete all but root temp&cat, merging thereto. Alai 07:15, 5 December 2005 (UTC) reply

Logging note: All except first item deleted. This discussion has been added to the Not Deleted section as well, for completion. -- TheParanoidOne 11:53, 14 December 2005 (UTC) reply

December 4th

{{ Netball-stub}} / Netball stubs

Another one for pruning. <10 items for several months, as per this diff. The 5 stubs in the category should go back into Sports stubs. -- TheParanoidOne 22:52, 4 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • Keep. It's a perfectly legitimate stub category, and the only reason there's less than ten stubs is because I don't believe in creating masses of stubs; I prefer to write long articles (am I going to have to do this to get this kept?). Interested parties need to be able to find stubs in their area. Ambi 23:15, 4 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per nom. Few stubs generally indicate either that the subject is of low interest or low expansion capability. I doubt the latter, but am uncertain of the former. Caerwine 03:23, 5 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • its not big in a lot of countries but theres a lot of interest where it is (like NZ, Australia, England, South Africa and Jamaica). delete now but might need it later. BL kiss the lizard 05:00, 5 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per nom. Also, 4 of the 5 stubs have been tagged with this since June. -- Mairi 03:57, 5 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. Sorry, Ambi, but that's pretty much a "I find this useful" vote. A (very short) list would suffice to keep track of these, and they might well be more likely to be expanded in a somewhat broader category. Many (many) more stubs would help, as would a wikiproject (as well). If there's a feasible broader category that'd cover this, be more viable, and fit within sports stubs, I'd be fine with rescoping, but I can't think of a sensible basis to do that. Alai 08:15, 5 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ journal-stub}} & Cat:Scientific journal stubs

The stub has been on the proposals page long enough that it was creatible, but the name of the template and the scope of the category don't match up with the discussion. I recommend that we rename the template to {{ sci-journal-stub}} as was discussed in the proposal since the 128 stubs placed in the category clearly show that it is large enough and then create a new {{ journal-stub}} → Cat:Journal stubs → Cat:Journals to serve for journals in the other academic disciplines. Caerwine 06:34, 4 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • I agree about moving {{ journal-stub}} to {{ sci-journal-stub}}. I will restub all the articles in the category. Bmdavll talk 06:42, 4 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • I support Caerwine's suggestions. Grutness... wha? 00:46, 5 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Agree there's a mismatch here, but I'm not convinced we need a separate category for non-science peer-reviewed journals; would this even hit threshold? In the permanent categories, scientific journals are a large, hierarchical category, and the others are all teeny. What about, we rescope journal-stub to peer-reviewed journals in general, accordingly rename category to Cat:Journal stubs (as per permie) or Cat:Peer-reviewed journal stubs if we want to be super-clear. If these are larger than they appear after creation and sorting down, we can re-split at a later date. Alai 05:08, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • I just did a census of the first column of the first page and found 6 stubs suitable for a general journal stub category and an additional one suitable for the science journal one. Assuming the rest of the category keeps that same rough proportion, it looks like there are about 70 non-science journal stubs. I won't promise 60 stubs, but it won't be too badly underpopulated in even a worst case. Caerwine Caerwhine 06:45, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply

December 5th

{{ Futurama stub}}

For a specific television series; used on 10 articles, lacks a category. However, there's no wikiproject and it's unlikely there's near 50 stubs at present, so it ought to be deleted. Even if kept, it needs to be hyphenated. -- Mairi 07:35, 5 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • A clear-cut delete in any millennium. Alai 08:08, 5 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Keep Useful to segregate these stubs so those particularly interested in he show can easily identify them The JPS 14:50, 11 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • delete therell never be enough stubs for this to be a useful split. BL kiss the lizard 00:36, 13 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ Catalonia-bio-stub}} (no cat)

As per Galicia, below - the parent Spain bio-stub category has under 300 articles, and bio-stubs aren't split by subnational regions - even ones that used to be nations. The one stub marked with this could easily be double-stubbed with Spian-bio-stub and Catalonia-stub Grutness... wha? 05:08, 5 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • Send {{ Catalonia-bio-stub}} to catatonia. Caerwine 05:30, 5 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. Alai 08:08, 5 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Not sure on this. I understand what people are trying to avoid here, but a different set of people are liable to try working on Catalan-related stubs. And not all of historical Catalonia is in Spain, some is in France. -- Jmabel | Talk 19:54, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ Kosovo-stub}} / no cat

Was rejected as a proposal at WP:WSS/P only a month ago for various reasons: lack of stubs, the name issue (Kosova or Kosovo?), and the uncertain status of the place (to quote an anon at WP:WSS/D). Delete Grutness... wha? 00:46, 5 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • Delete per nom Caerwine 03:23, 5 December 2005 (UTC) making certain I add the ~~~~ this time reply
  • Delete, with WSS/P-related griping. Alai 08:08, 5 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete -- Valentinian 22:56, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ UKW-geo-stub}} and {{ UKS-geo-stub}} (redirects)

Probably about time these redirects went, now that there's a bot that can clear them. They were only ever intended to be temporary anyway. Grutness... wha? 00:56, 5 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • delete per nom. Caerwine 03:23, 5 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. One of our more horrible redirects, and self-inflicted, at that! Alai 08:08, 5 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Keep possibly useful redirects. -- SPUI ( talk) 20:22, 5 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • As distinct from these ones? I don't follow how these are potentially useful, even if we buy into the argument that editors won't recall the convention behind or distinction between {{ UK-stub}} and {{ uk-stub}}, or {{ Scotland-stub}} and {{ Scotland stub}}. Who's ever going to "accidentally" use {{ UKS-geo-stub}}? Alai 04:46, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. per nom. -- Mais oui! 20:37, 5 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Keep would think it useful ----
    • previous comment by User:Yale College
    • Technically, as creator and only editor of these stubs I could have speedied their deletion. These names don't conform to the stub naming conventions, and - with all due respect - perhaps editors with a few more edits than you are more able to judge whether these really are useful. Grutness... wha? 13:49, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • I remembered, which was why I was (I thought) being polite. I could have mentioned that his/her four previous edits had not had anything to do with stub-sorting - or Scotland or Wales, for that matter - and made an accusation of sockpuppetry based on that. Instead, I assumed good faith and simply commented - politely - that given his/her newness here, he/she might not yet be up-to-speed on whether these redirects meet requirements. Grutness... wha? 05:51, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete - Who is going to type these in? -- Cel e stianpower hablamé 20:42, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete a.s.a.p. Saga City 16:22, 7 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete as per nom. Conscious 20:41, 7 December 2005 (UTC) reply

December 6th

Category:Malta-related stubs

This one was approved by WSS/P, but the category uses *-related. I say we speedy this one. Aecis praatpaal 21:52, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply

I followed the guidelines.. Wikipedia:WikiProject_Stub_sorting/Naming_guidelines conflicts with what I read (searching for it) Srl 22:29, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
think i found it. Wikipedia:Stub said either x stubs or x-related stubs was ok. ive changed it. BL kiss the lizard 23:26, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
agree. I've created the new category and fixed the template.. searching for the guideline pages that i followed Srl 22:37, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
I speedied it, since the template and pages have been corrected to the new category. -- Mairi 02:58, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ Massachusetts-road-stub}} / no cat

Partway through the xx-State-Highway-stub mess, {{ Massachusetts-road-stub}} was created (with the {{ sfd-t}} tag already on it), and with no category. It has 16 stubs in it, all of which are Massachusetts State Highways (Massachusetts State Routes, actually). Given the WPJ apparently prefers {{ Massachusetts-State-Highway-stub}}, and there don't seem to be any stubs about Massachusetts highways that are not State Routes, it probably ought to be merged. Sam8 20:00, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply

This stub was created by a user that, when he saw that {{ Massachusetts-State-Highway-Stub}} was SFDed, created this stub just in case it got deleted. Since it did not get deleted, therefore I say delete. -- Rschen7754 ( talk - contribs) 00:22, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ Slovak-bio-stub}}

{{ Slovak-bio-stub}} should be renamed to {{ Slovakia-bio-stub}}, per the naming guidelines. Aecis praatpaal 17:56, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ Off-stub}} and Cat:New York Theatre stubs

Has been on WSS/D for just over two months now. Template is used on only one article. Iff this is to be kept, it shouldn't just be expanded, but imo it should be renamed as well: the template to {{ NYC-theat-stub}} and the category to Cat:New York City theater stubs (theater being the common spelling in US English). Aecis praatpaal 17:50, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply

Theatre is perfectly fine in this case as for live acting only the -re spelling is equally common in the US and we're only talking about the category, which for the non-stub categories uniformly uses theatre. (Frankly, I would't mind dropping the theat abbreviation we've been using for theatrical stub templates in favor of theatre with a redirect from theater for the stubs that cover the US. However if kept, we should be more ambitious in the rescope and rescope it as {{ US-theat-stub}} → ([noun] Cat:United States theatre stubs or [adjective] Cat:American theatre stubs) → Cat:Theatre in the United States. Caerwine Caerwhine 00:08, 7 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. Seldom used, and not really necessary. If we were going to subdivide theatre by place, then it would be by country, and given that the sole article seems to refer to a play (which could be performed anywhere), it's not really an appropriate split. BTW, that article was also a copyvio... Grutness... wha? 01:17, 7 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ ContemporaryArtStub}} and Cat:Contemporary Art stubs

Malformed, not used, category only became a blue link after I added the {{ sfd-c}} notice, has been on WSS/D for over three months now. Aecis praatpaal 17:37, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • delete. not a particularly useful way to split art stubs anyway, and uses that nasty little word "contemporary", which has two different and often contradictory meanings. Grutness... wha? 01:17, 7 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ enyzme-stub}} (Redirect)

A misspelled redirect to {{ enzyme-stub}}. Delete Caerwine Caerwhine 05:08, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply

delete (nice new sig, BTW) Grutness... wha? 05:33, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
Delete, preferably speedily. Alai 05:51, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ tvhost-stub}} and Category:TV Show Host stubs

For "TV Show Hosts" - so I can't see any way this doesn't duplicate {{ tv-bio-stub}}. I'd also argue that "host" is a pretty vague term, and not really a useful was to categorize. CDC (talk) 03:42, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • Agree on vagueness, would at least need tight wording to clarify. But it wouldn't duplicate tv-bio-, it'd be a sub-cat, and the (potential) parent is over-sized (7 pages). And it seems at least potentially useful, as it'd catch "on-screen talent" (alleged) that aren't "actors" or "newsreaders", etc). But how it's best split (by country? by role in/on TV?) is a sufficiently open-ended issue that this might be better dealt with at WP:WSS/P, regardless of what we do with this. Alai 04:40, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
The TV bios need splitting, but judging from the two stubs that this has, this at the very least severely overlaps with {{ tv-journalist-stub}} which has been on the proposals page (as part of a split of {{ journalist-stub}}) for about a day. Even if kept, both the template and the category are in serious need of a rename. Simpler to delete and recreate if determined to be needed later. Caerwine Caerwhine 04:50, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply


{{ India-eco-stub}} and Cat:Economy of India stubs

I suggest renaming to {{ India-econ-stub}} and Cat:Indian economics and finance stubs, per Caerwine on WSS/D. Aecis praatpaal 17:44, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ ITC Entertainment Productions-stub}} and Cat:ITC Entertainment stubs

Barely used, doesn't really seem viable, cuts right across the existing hierarchy. Has a Wikiproject, but doesn't have enough articles for a Wikiproject to get its own stub. Aecis praatpaal 17:41, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • Keep This is a newish Wikiproject, still getting off the ground. In the last three days alone, Man of the World, Seaway, The Sentimental Agent, Cannonball (series), The Buccaneers (series), The Des O'Connor Show, Bonkers!, Diver Dan, Espionage (series), The Forest Rangers, The Four Just Men and From a Bird's Eye View have all been added as stubs. These stubs are detailed but need further work - Phase 2 of the ITC Wikiproject. The stubs are distinct from other relevant stubs (TV programmes in general, for instance) as they are all for non-contemporary shows that have a distinct specialist audience (in other words, there are distinct "fans" of ITC programming). I can provide web references for whole websites devoted to ITC programming. Also, please see this list of productions that will be using the ITC stub in the near future. ➨ ❝ R E DVERS ❞ 18:04, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Keep as noted, this project is still getting off the ground. Will eventually have dozens of articles (in fact already does). 23skidoo 19:51, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Neutral on the category as it now has 29 stubs, but the template definitely needs a rename to fit in with the naming guidelines which specifically call for using hyphens and not spaces between the components. I'd favour {{ ITC-tv-stub}} since ITC was a television production company and thus stubs relating to it and its shows belong a subtype of {{ tv-stub}} and possibly {{ UK-tv-stub}}. That's another reason why you should have proposed first and created second, so as to get the stub properly named and placed in the stub heirarchy. Caerwine Caerwhine 23:16, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • At the very least rename. Why don't new WikiProjects follow the rules??? Grutness... wha? 01:17, 7 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Keep - for reasons already given. As for "new WikiProjects [not] following the rules".... perhaps if they were not so difficult to find (especially for new(ish) members who just want to get on and start helping, then perhaps they would be followed more often. HowardBerry 08:57, 7 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • Emphatic second of that -- it can be hard enough to find a Wikiproject that you know exists, let alone find clear directions on how to go about starting a new one. -- Antaeus Feldspar 15:03, 11 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Rename to {{ ITC-tv-stub}}. I think the Wikiproject will find this template name much more convenient. Conscious 14:46, 7 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Comment The rename option isn't that helpful to the project - if you look at this list you'll see that ITC did more than TV series. If we rename, it will simply spawn 1 or 2 more stubs to make up for the productions the stub doesn't cover. ➨ ❝ R E DVERS ❞ 15:29, 7 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • {{ ITC-stub}} is too ambiguous, so that is not an option. {{ ITC-Entertainment-stub}} I suppose would be an option and it would parallel the main article ITC Entertainment while following the naming guidelines. Probably should join {{ Disney-stub}} as a child of {{ corp-stub}} with the expanded scope. Caerwine Caerwhine 16:52, 7 December 2005 (UTC) reply
        • Regarding Redvers' comment above: I completely agree that renaming this to be a TV stub is not going to work/be productive. ITC did more than television productions - they were also a film production company and a distribution company. A more suitable rename would not include TV or Film, but rename it to something relevant to media in general. HowardBerry 16:58, 7 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • Can you think of a template name that would comply with naming guidelines, be precise and descriptive, and as convenient as possible? I don't like the current name - it's too long, and not standard. What about {{ ITCEntertainmentProductions-stub}} or {{ ITCEntertainment-stub}}?

Keep, with support for renaming {{ ITV-stub}} or an agreed short version if necessary. -- Cjmarsicano 20:15, 7 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • Comment I'd go for {{ ITCDistributions-stub}} or {{ ITC-Distributions-stub}}. I don't know where {{ ITV-stub}} came from, though: ITC shows were specifically not ITV shows; they just happened to usually (but by no means always) be shown on ITV in the UK thanks to ATV's ownership of ITC. In the main, they were produced in order to sell them into syndication in the United States - the UK sales were a by-product. ➨ ❝ R E DVERS ❞ 20:28, 7 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Keep the category has it has more than enough now for a Wikiproject stub. Rename to {{ ITCEntertainment-stub}}. (Where is "ITC Distributions" coming from as an idea for a name? That doesn't even exist as a redirect in Wikipedia?) Caerwine Caerwhine 10:59, 10 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Comment. ITC Distributions is the description we're using in the Wikiproject. The project started as being about ITC productions, but once the can was open, the worms got everywhere: ITC was a producer, financer and distributor and the line is rarely very clear. The term "An ITC World-Wide Distribution" is seen on a lot of ITC and ATV programmes - it was a phrase carefully chosen by the Independent Television Authority to ensure that ITC stuff was held at arms-length from ATV's stuff. All of this is very complex and very difficult to explain (that's why there's no article explaining it). It's also not a particularly likely search term for readers - and many editors here have an embolism if you create a redirect that they don't think it's likely anyone will search for - whether they know the subject or not. ➨ ❝ R E DVERS ❞ 11:12, 10 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • I'm not one to have embolisms over redirects in article space. (In template space I might, but not article space.) About the only ones I worry about there are those which correct multiple mistakes at the same time. That said, I wouldn't favor {{ ITCDistributions-stub}} unless the cat were also changed to Cat:ITC Distributions stubs Don't really care what you decide to call yourselves or the stub type as long as the stub follows the naming guidelines and is not ambiguous. As noted, {{ ITC-stub}} would be too ambiguous. Caerwine Caerwhine 11:36, 10 December 2005 (UTC) reply
      • I'm all for changing it all to follow the ITC Distributions name as standard. Howie ☎ 13:31, 10 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Keep, but would also support shortening the stub's name to something more convenient. The JPS 14:48, 11 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Comment: I don't know how this process completes, but if no one has any objections, would it now be ok to rename this stub and category (and any relevant pages (if any)) to follow the name ITC Distributions as standard? Howie ☎ 15:44, 11 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • SFD is supposed to take a week (it sometimes take longer due to lag or lack of consensus, but the latter at least doesn't seem to apply here.) Since the nomination was on the 6th, the change can be done starting on the 13th. Caerwine Caerwhine 15:05, 12 December 2005 (UTC) reply
      • Excellent! Thanks very much. I'll change the names now! Howie ☎ 02:42, 13 December 2005 (UTC) reply

Please note that Category:ITC Entertainment stubs now needs to be deleted, as a page move was not possible. It has been replaced with Category:ITC Distributions stubs as discussed above. Howie ☎ 03:45, 13 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ ST-ep-stub}}

I believe that this one, albeit poetic, is a bit too ambiguous. ST isn't just the abbreviation of Star Trek, it's also the ISO country code for São Tomé and Príncipe, the ISO language code for Sesotho and the NATO country code for Saint Lucia. EP is usually used for the European parliament or extended play music recordings. I propose renaming this to {{ StarTrek-episode-stub}}. Aecis praatpaal 23:16, 6 December 2005 (UTC) reply

I'm half inclined to suggest that we up merge this one into {{ ST-stub}} instead (which also needs a rename) At around 400 stubs the combined stub type would not be overlarge. All the Star Trek episode stubs have "(X episode)" [where X refers to the particular series] at the end of the article name so it's not as if the episodes need a separate stub stype to be distinguishable and no other series has a seperate episode stub type. Caerwine Caerwhine 00:56, 7 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • upmerging would indeed be a reasonable thing to do. If not, then definitely rename Grutness... wha? 01:17, 7 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • On a second glance, the size of these categories is fairly substantial - 250 and 140 articles for St and ST-ep respectively. Perhaps a simple rename is the better option after all. Grutness... wha? 10:04, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply
      • Normally, I would agree with you except that every single Star Trek episode stub ends with " episode)" in the article title, as is specified by the naming convention for episode articles of the Star Trek WikiProject. With the distinction being already made obvious, I personally would only see a reason to split off the episodes if the category were {verylarge} which at 400 stubs it is not. I've left a note on the Star Trek WikiProject talk page about this, so hopefuly we'll get some response about this from those who would be most likely to use these stubs for the intended purpose of finding articles that need improvement. Caerwine Caerwhine 21:34, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • upmerge to a renamed StarTrek-Stub as per User:Caerwine. DES (talk) 18:45, 13 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • upmerge BL kiss the lizard 11:51, 15 December 2005 (UTC) reply

December 7th

{{ ST-stub}}

Rename As mentioned below in the discussion for {{ ST-ep-stub}}, this stub, which predates the naming guidelines, should be brought into compliance with the naming guidelines as {{ StarTrek-stub}}. Caerwine Caerwhine 17:10, 7 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • rename. Either that or make it a redirect to saint-stub to confuse the trekkies >:) Grutness... wha? 05:26, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • Comment Considering the reverence with which some of them hold the trinity of Kirk, Spock, and McCoy, they might think such a redirect was appropriate Caerwine Caerwhine 15:32, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • I don't see any naming conflict issues. It's ST-stub for Star Trek stubs and St-stub for saint stubs (can stubs really be canonicised?). If you by any chance think the current title is wrong, by all means rename and redirect to StarTrek-stub. — JIP | Talk 12:10, 9 December 2005 (UTC) reply
Canonize by renaming as proposed. Conscious 13:20, 9 December 2005 (UTC) reply
rename - Hayter 11:25, 15 December 2005 (UTC) reply

December 8th

Category:Stubs needing attention

A tad redundant, methinks. -- TheParanoidOne 22:31, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply

a tad speedied :) Grutness... wha? 23:42, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply
twice :( Grutness... wha? 00:13, 9 December 2005 (UTC) reply

Category:Nazi Germany stub articles → Category:Nazi Germany stubs

Remove the "articles" part of the name, as it's redundant. -- TheParanoidOne 23:12, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ Kurdistan-geo-stub}} / Category:Kurdistan geography stubs

For one thing, Kurdistan can refer to several different geographic areas, some of which cut across countries. Even if it just refers to the region in Iraq, Category:Iraq geography stubs has only 81 articles; also, Category:Kurdistan has only 21 articles. So it's quite unlikely to be large enough. Delete. -- Mairi 02:45, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • Delete We've been fairly strict about restricting the partioning of geo stubs along current de jure subdivisions. The only such area that this stub could conceivably refer to would be that of Kurdistan Province, Iran. The Iran geo stubs at 255 are more numerous than Iraq's, but I don't see 60 stubs for Iranian Kurdistan there. Caerwine Caerwhine 05:08, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete agreed. geo-stubs that don't use current official borders are just asking for edit wars, too. Grutness... wha? 05:25, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete, per nom. Alai 04:06, 15 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ EuroHist-stub}}

Unused malformed redirect of Euro-hist-stub. Delete. Grutness... wha? 10:00, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ geoscience-bio-stub}}

I can't see any reason why this ungainly stub template shouldn't be {{ geoscientist-stub}} instead. Caerwine Caerwhine 16:33, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • Hey, I created it and that sounds like a better name to me. I have no problem with the change. Rename -- Etacar11 16:36, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Rename Alai 04:06, 15 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ UT-stub}}, {{ UT-bio-stub}}, and {{ UT-geo-stub}} (Redirects)

These are all redirects to stubs from the Utah WikiProject, and said project doesn't even mention them (save on the talk page thereof). We don't need and shouldn't want a postal abbreviation here as a special case, so delete all three. Caerwine Caerwhine 03:07, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply

A case could be made for the ease of using an abbreviation for Massachusetts or North Carolina, due to the name's length - but even then it would be against stub naming guidelines. But Utah? Make them type an extra two letters! Grutness... wha? 05:25, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Keep; no reason to delete. -- SPUI ( talk) 07:25, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • delete no reason to keep and reasons not to UT could be utrehct (sp?) or united states territories or tanzania (officialy United Tanzania). BL kiss the lizard 07:41, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete Alai 04:06, 15 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ Europe-mil-stub}}

Somehow, when this one was made, it was made with "Europe" rather than the standard "Euro"". Rename to the more standard {{ Euro-mil-stub}}. Grutness... wha? 10:00, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • We might wish to get into a debate over whether we should be using a four letter abbreviation for a six letter word, but that should be handled at the bottom of the proposals page, not here. Delete Caerwine Caerwhine 15:28, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete I don't think we need an extra stub to add to a thousand pages. -- Valentinian 22:57, 8 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Rename as per nom. Also, totally confused as to why we have two delete votes on a rename nom. Obviously a case of write-in democracy in action, but makes actual consensus bogglingly hard to determine if it stays like this. (Not to say, argues for separate sfd/sfr templates...) Possibly keep redirect. Alai 05:56, 11 December 2005 (UTC) reply

December 9th

{{ District Of Columbia-stub}}

While we can argue the pros and cons of whether we should have specific state-stubs (or in this case, district-stub) without WikiProjects, this does need a rename. User:Karmafist merrily created this and Virginia-stub without reference to WP:WSS/P, and the redirect below. Personally, I'm definitely softening on the "no project, no stub" stance" (and have called for debate at the foot of WP:WSS/P about it) but this needs a rename. Grutness... wha? 00:13, 9 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • There's also the problem of the capital "O". This stub needs a possibly lengthy discussion on the proposals page before it gets approved. Simply delete this one now until we can decide whether to name this {{ DistrictofColumbia-stub}} or {{ WashingtonDC-stub}}. Caerwine Caerwhine 03:18, 9 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Yes Grutness, I sang a little song on my merry little way. La la la...

I have no problem with renaming it, but let's make a redirect there to whatever the new stub is. The newcomers and non-cruftinators will be turned off to putting stubs on articles as guideposts to let others know that they're small and need to be improved, which is their only purpose anyway other than perhaps methods of categorization.
There's no need to propose anything when it can just be done. karmafist 03:42, 9 December 2005 (UTC) reply

    • As long as you remember to not be reckless. Creating new stub types is just the type of thing the be bold page advises editors to be cautious about as it is an action with widespread effects. Caerwine Caerwhine 05:03, 9 December 2005 (UTC) reply
      • If there are any issues, then something like the proposal page is warranted to gain consensus on what needs to be done to fix any problems. This little stub isn't hurting anybody, and it doesn't hurt to have it at least as a redirect to the actual stub for the newbies/people who don't regularly stub articles related to it and will find something else to do if it's too complicated. karmafist 16:04, 9 December 2005 (UTC) reply
        • Consensus has already been established and is reflected in the naming guidelines for stubs. Changing that guideline requires a proposal not the arbitrary creation of stubs that ignore those guidelines. Caerwine Caerwhine 17:41, 9 December 2005 (UTC) reply
          • Where was this consensus? When was it recognized? How many people agreed to it? Was it assumed to be in a well trafficked area of Wikipedia so other Wikipedians had notice that an attempt at consensus was being acquired? I don't know it, but I can bet you that it's not at the level of WP:AFD or WP:RFA or the ilk, which I consider acceptable. Please. Let me feel like this isn't being decided in some dark smoke filled room somewhere and that I won't have to jump through a large series of hoops or be stomped upon by some bureaucracy to help the articles that interest me. karmafist 00:26, 10 December 2005 (UTC) reply
        • It's on Wikipedia:Naming conventions. If that's not a prominent enough place, where would you prefer, the Main Page, perhaps? Grutness... wha? 03:16, 10 December 2005 (UTC) reply
          • And who decided what the naming conventions are, hmmm? karmafist 17:49, 11 December 2005 (UTC) reply
            • anyone who came along to discus them when it was advertised on the naming convention page that it was going on. lots of people did but you obviously werent intrested then. BL <small> kiss the lizard 04:50, 12 December 2005 (UTC) reply
              • If it's at all like the 12 people who decided to create WP:SFD, you'll forgive me if I'm non-plussed. — Locke Cole 08:08, 12 December 2005 (UTC) reply
            • Presumably not many people debated that simply because no-one objected to it. If the stub naming guidelines are as contentious as some people seem to suggest, there would surely have been loads of objections. Consider too how many people use these naming guidelines. There are over 100 people in the stub-sorting wikiproject alone, not to mention countless others in other wikiprojects around wikipedia who are more than happy to abide by them. Grutness... wha? 08:48, 12 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete as per my explanation above. If the systems needs to be reformed, then reform it rather than ignore it. Jokermage " Timor Mentum Occidit" 08:10, 12 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete as per User:Jokermage. DES (talk) 18:38, 13 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Keep as a redirect. -- SPUI ( talk) 01:16, 23 December 2005 (UTC) reply

Rename Cat:Pub stub

As with the Nazi stub below, the category needs a rename to end in the standard " stubs" as Cat:Pub stubs Caerwine Caerwhine 04:55, 9 December 2005 (UTC) reply

Do we even need Cat:Pub stubs? It's only ever had a few dozen stubs, and if the London ones were in Cat:London buildings and structures stubs (where they'd probably see more action) it would reduce it to about 40 stubs in total. I wouldn't object if this one was deleted. But failing that, yes, a rename would be useful. Grutness... wha? 14:10, 9 December 2005 (UTC) reply
Isn't this already covered by the bars in {{ restaurant-stub}}? Aecis praatpaal 19:01, 9 December 2005 (UTC) reply
There 59 stubs in this category. Weak delete, but rename if kept. Conscious 15:22, 9 December 2005 (UTC) reply
Rename as per nom. Alai 04:02, 15 December 2005 (UTC) reply

December 10th

{{ Denmark_bio-stub}} / Category:Denmark biographical stubs

Duplicate (except the word "Denmark" rather than "Danish") of {{ Denmark-bio-stub}} and Category:Danish people stubs. Was only used by three articles, and I've assigned those to the correct stub.

  • Delete per nom. -- Valentinian 10:40, 10 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per nom. It's too bad that this isn't speediable as a duplicate of an existing stub. Caerwine Caerwhine 10:48, 10 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ Newhampshire-stub}} (redirect)

Guess who? Delete. This is getting ridiculous. Karmafist seems determined to single-handedly stop all stub-sorting by having spend all our time hunting for his new creations. Grutness... wha? 23:49, 10 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • Delete per nom. Caerwine Caerwhine 00:46, 11 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • I feel that your comment about Karmafist is unwarrented. This stub redirect was originally created on December 6, which is before the other NH stub redirect was nominated for deletion. It is not a new creation. At worst, it is merely an previously unknown part of the original case. That being said, Delete. I don't think we in the NH project need that many stubs. Jokermage " Timor Mentum Occidit" 06:37, 11 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Comment: Suggest nom read WP:DICK and change the tone of his comments and nominations in the future. — Locke Cole 10:42, 11 December 2005 (UTC) reply
      • comment. having heard more of the story than you probably have i think it is karmafist who needs to read that. and delete btw. BL kiss the lizard 04:35, 12 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • And since the " WP:OWNers" of the stub system can't get consensus on a stub deletion(see below, they tried deleting this redirect yesterday and failed, they're trying again. I'm merging this attempt to the still open attempt, which they've failed at, as evidence of their hypocrisy. karmafist 17:39, 11 December 2005 (UTC) reply
      • Oh please, Karmafist, grow up. This redirect wasn't up for deletion yesterday. That one was {{ New Hampshire-stub}}, this one is {{ newhampshire-stub}}. See the difference? Secondly, that nomination hasn't failed yet, because (read this) a nomination for deletion requires a seven day waiting period. Aecis praatpaal 18:24, 11 December 2005 (UTC) reply
        • Oh wow, big difference there. One letter was capitalized. It's the exact same thing, and that's ultimately why I created it. I assume at this point I did create it since naming guidelines are obtuse to the frustrating several people i'm talking to on IRC have stopped bothering with anything other that {{ stub}} at all. karmafist 18:59, 11 December 2005 (UTC) reply
          • Yes, it's quite a big difference. You said that we, and I quote, "tried deleting this redirect yesterday and failed", and that we are now "trying again." Which is bullshit. This redirect wasn't nominated for deletion. Make sure you know what you're saying, or keep your big mouth shut. You were proven wrong, and there's no way you can wiggle your way out of this. Aecis praatpaal 19:21, 11 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Could I possibly suggest that every in the NH and DC stubs votes take some time and cool down? Jokermage " Timor Mentum Occidit" 19:51, 11 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • delete as per nom. DES (talk) 00:40, 13 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • 'comment I've just re-edited the 30 or so non-stub geography articles that karmafist added this redirect to in the last few days - articles of the size of Barrington, New Hampshire. He seems to have done the same with {{ New Hampshire-stub}}. More fun and games. Grutness... wha? 10:28, 19 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Keep as a redirect. -- SPUI ( talk) 01:15, 23 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ District of Columbia-stub}}

Not a redirect - a duplicate. Karmafist clearly decided we needed more work on this page, so there's this incorrectly named template to delete as well. If anyone wants to start an RFC against karmafist, let me know, because he's inching towards one... Grutness... wha? 23:39, 10 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • Delete per nom. Caerwine Caerwhine 00:46, 11 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Duplicate of what? Either way, it seems like we should keep this as a redirect to the template it duplicates; natural redirects are useful for editors. Christopher Parham (talk) 03:21, 11 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • A stub template redirect that violates the naming guidelines does not strike me as a "natural" redirect. In any case, both it and the stub that it duplicates were created without being proposed. Caerwine Caerwhine 03:37, 11 December 2005 (UTC) reply
      • Um, "name of thing"-"stub" seems pretty natural to me, in the same way that "name" would be a natural title for an article. And certainly proposing a page isn't a requirement for it to be created. Christopher Parham (talk) 03:55, 11 December 2005 (UTC) reply
        • The stub guidelines recommend proposing stubs on the proposals page first, not only so that the naming guidelines to be applied, but also to ensure that there are enough stubs that would use the proposed new stub. While the naming guidlines may need revising, they currently call for the stub to be named {{ DistrictofColumbia-stub}}. Revision to the naming guidlines should be done by a proposal, not by creating stub templates that violate that policy. Caerwine Caerwhine 04:19, 11 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Comment. I know you and Karmafist don't see eye to eye on these stub issues, but once again this is not a case of him creating new stubs just to annoy you. This stub was created on December 8, which was before the other DC stub was nominated. This is part of the original issue, not a new one. Jokermage " Timor Mentum Occidit" 06:48, 11 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • comment so what was the real estate stub that he created on december 9 after he knew not to create new stubs without proposing them? grutness and caerwine are right hes being a pain. (delete) BL kiss the lizard 04:52, 12 December 2005 (UTC) reply
      • I didn't see any reference to a real estate stub. Could you point it out to me? I still think that too many people are assuming bad faith on the part of others. Jokermage " Timor Mentum Occidit" 06:05, 12 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • on WSS/D BL kiss the lizard 07:12, 12 December 2005 (UTC) reply
      • I think you are reaching a bit with that argument. The same people in this discussion decided that it was a useful, but misnamed stub. They gave it the correct name and that was that. If he had created another misnamed redirect stub after the 9th, then I would agree with you. All of the MRS's had been created before the initial nomination, so accusations of deliberate sabotage are unfounded. All I am seeing is frustration on both sides which is why I suggested taking time to cool down. Accusations of POINTism and OWNerism will not help resolve this. Jokermage " Timor Mentum Occidit" 07:33, 12 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Before the nomination, yes, but after karmafist was informed on his user talk page that stub types had to be proposed first. Add to that karmafist's comment on my user talk page that he intends to continue creating redirects to stub templates (presumably irrespective of the naming guidelines or any decisions on these ones) and is it any wonder there's frustration? His message suggests that he will continue to do so "until stub naming becomes simple and intuitive" - presumably against the wishes of WP:WSS, whose naming guidelines are simple and intuitive. His redirects, by going against these naming guidelines, make the situation less simple and less intuitive. Grutness... wha? 07:46, 12 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • I didn't see that before. I've pretty much said all I wanted to anyway. Delete on the basis of Darkwikianism (as I understand it). Even if the stub process is not good, it is the best promoted by consensus to date and should be followed. I hope this dispute can be resolved without further escalation. Honestly, it's been like watching a train wreck in slow motion. Jokermage " Timor Mentum Occidit" 08:03, 12 December 2005 (UTC) reply
      • Tell me about it :/ Grutness... wha? 08:42, 12 December 2005 (UTC) reply
        • and, a week later, Karmafist starts creating pointless redirects contravening the naming guidelines again (see "Canadian-bio-stub", "American Football-stub" and "Television-stub" at the top of the page). It's getting harder and harder to see this as anything other than malicious. Grutness... wha? 06:36, 20 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • delete as per nom. DES (talk) 00:44, 13 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Keep as a redirect. -- SPUI ( talk) 01:14, 23 December 2005 (UTC) reply

December 11th

Rename of three Buildings and structures stub categories

Cat:Scottish buildings and structures stubs, Cat:UK buildings and structures stubs, and Cat:US buildings and structures stubs should be renamed to follow the pattern of the other buildings and structures stub categories to be Cat:Scotland buildings and structures stubs, Cat:United Kingdom buildings and structures stubs, and Cat:United States buildings and structures stubs. Not the most urgent of fixes, but as long as I noticed them while adding the new stub types for France, Italy, and Japan, I decided to bring them here. Caerwine Caerwhine 04:12, 11 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • rename. Sounds perfectly reasonable. While we're at it, should we drop the "s" from both "buildings" and "structures"? Grutness... wha? 08:54, 12 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • If we do, we'll need to bring the other eleven stubs to SfD as well. but other than that I would have no objection. Caerwine Caerwhine 14:57, 12 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Leave that for now, maybe, and just go for the renames you originally proposed - there's enough of a backlog of changes as it is. It looks like Mairi's on a wikibreak, so we're botless again :( Grutness... wha? 09:56, 13 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • I'm back now, and have the bot working away again. I probably won't have time for much other than bot work for the next week or so. -- Mairi 18:38, 15 December 2005 (UTC) reply

Rename of Law-related biographical stub categories

Both Cat:Law-related biographical stubs and the newly created Cat:American law-related biographical stubs have a small problem of parentage which I noticed as I created the latter for the {{ US-law-bio-stub}}. Namely what non-stub category should be its parent? The stub text suggests that Cat:Jurists would be approporiate (whihc includes lawyers, judges, and law professors, but instead the stub category had Cat:Law (which is too broad) as its non-stub parent. The parent was part of the the -related SFD of 24 November, but I've noted this nomination here. As named, the stub category would also seem to encompass non-jurists who have some relation to the law, but there do not exist non-stub categories that would correspond to that broader scope, while Cat:Jurists, Cat:American jurists and quite a number of cats in Cat:Jurists by nationality already exist. Therefor I recommend that we:

Rename to Cat:Jurist stubs and Cat:American jurist stubs and limit the scope to just jurists. This is not intended to affect the variety of redirects to {{ law-bio-stub}}. Jurist is not a common enough term that I would be comfortable with ditching the redirects from alternate names in this case. If the explict scoping is not felt to be appropriate then the previously planned rename to Cat:Law biography stubs and Cat:American law biography stubs should be carried out instead. Caerwine Caerwhine 17:19, 11 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • Seems reasonable to rename to something, but remember that "jurist" means something different in some countries (in commonwealth English it tends to mean someone who writes law books). Because of that, I'm not 100% convinced that that is the best name. Grutness... wha? 08:52, 12 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • In that case, I'll drop my objection. Grutness... wha? 09:54, 13 December 2005 (UTC) reply

December 13th

{{ Custom Stub}}

someones made a fix-all and confuse-everyone stub again. no catagory and this could give us several tens of thousands oif different types of catagory if it did have. luckily it was only used once. delete. can it be speedied as a recreation of something very similar thats been made before? BL kiss the lizard 05:09, 13 December 2005 (UTC) reply

hooboy yes, this one is a big mess of worms. delete thoroughly. Grutness... wha? 09:51, 13 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete, I don't see how this could be used in any correct way. So people add {{Custom Stub|veeblefetzer}} at the end of an article, and then what? How is anyone going to find a list of veeblefetzer stubs? There's no category for them, and "what links here" from {{ Custom Stub}} finds every other custom stub as well. This is useless. — JIP | Talk 12:11, 13 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Not the worst of ones, as it does file all its stubs into Cat:Stubs and only customizes the text. (It uses includeonly to keep the template itself out of the category.) I've done the same thing on occassion, but by substing the stub template and commenting the change (see Peter of Spain). That said, non-standard template name, likely to confuse, blah, blah, delete. Caerwine Caerwhine 12:20, 13 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete and I am the one who created the ill advised stub, Mea Culpa, I have seen the error of my ways. I would favor it being speedily removed. — Falerin< talk>,< contrib> 14:03, 13 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ New Mexico-politician-stub}}, {{ South Carolina-politician-stub}}

These templates should lose the space in their names:

Conscious 14:33, 13 December 2005 (UTC) reply

December 14th

Cat:Rock-album stubs

Only real problem with this is that the hyphen meeds to go. Rename to Cat:Rock album stubs. Caerwine Caerwhine 04:31, 14 December 2005 (UTC) reply

December 15th

{{ Search-engine-optimization-stub}}

No category, no indication it's ever been used either. Complex name, though not malnamed. But would we ever get anywhere near enough stubs to make this worthwhile? A search-engine-stub would probably struggle to reach threshold. But a search-engine-optimisation-stub? Delete. Grutness... wha? 10:20, 15 December 2005 (UTC) reply

Delete as per nom. -- Mairi 06:44, 29 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ ethnic-stub}} (redirect) Cat:Ethnicity stubs & {{ ethno-stub}}

The first two need at the very least to have some cleanup done with them, even if kept. As can be seen here the trouble began back around June, but it never did get completely cleared up. There are 44 stubs in Cat:Ethnicity stubs that with a null edit would be added to Cat:Ethnic group stubs instead and only three articles that use {{ ethnic-stub}}. Cat:Ethnicity is the parent of Cat:Ethnic groups in the non stub categories but the two stub categories have no linkage. With the proposed {{ ethno-activist-stub}} ready to be created, I discovered this situation as I was looking around to make certain I gave it the appropriate non-stub parent. Cat:Ethnicity stubs would seem to me to be a better parent for Cat:Minority rights activist stubs than Cat:Ethnic group stubs so I favor keeping the cat either with or wothout a stub template. However I see several alternatives here about what to do with {{ ethno-stub}} none of which I have a preference for at this time, but with the first two being discussed, it seemed approporiate to discuss it now.

  1. Leave {{ ethno-stub}} where it is and have Cat:Ethnicity stubs be a templateless stub category.
  2. Leave {{ ethno-stub}} where it is and give Cat:Ethnicity stubs a template of its very own.
  3. Rescope {{ ethno-stub}} to be the stub template of Cat:Ethnicity stubs and give Cat:Ethnic group stubs a new stub template such as {{ ethno-group-stub}}

I'm neutral about what to do with {{ ethnic-stub}} but I figured this was an appropriate time to discuss whether to officially bring it in out of the cold and add it to the list of approved redirects or to extinguish it. Caerwine Caerwhine 17:01, 15 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • Hang on a minute... Ethno-stub used to link to Cat:Ethnicity stubs. I thought it still did. Who changed it and why? Revert ethno-stub to its proper category and create a new ethno-group stub. Grutness... wha? 23:30, 15 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • It was changed by Stevertigo on June 9th this year. [1] Aecis praatpaal 09:58, 17 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • Agree, there should be an ethno-group stub. -- SwissCelt 06:27, 18 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Explanation from Ste| vertigo: Ethnicity cat should contain ethnic groups within it, but be reserved for concepts and topics in the science of "ethnicity." Having the groups list separate is vital, IMHO, and mixing them is bad organization. Sincerely - Ste| vertigo 19:06, 17 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Option 3 as per above. -- Mairi 00:55, 22 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Join 'em. Fewer is better in this case. Peter Isotalo 02:45, 26 December 2005 (UTC) reply

Comment It's clear that as far as {{ ethno-stub}} is concerned, option 3 is the consensus, but no one else seems to have commented on the {{ ethnic-stub}} redirect. Any opinions, cause without some, that part looks like it'll be closed with no consensus. Caerwine Caerwhine 19:25, 27 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • given that it's only been used three times, I don't think anyone would be too inconvenienced if it was deleted. We don't use adjectival stub names, anyway (not that "ethno" is exactly a noun form). Grutness... wha? 06:04, 29 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • I'd also go with delete (although it's now used more than 3 times), since we don't use adjectival forms, and it's not clear whether it ought to redirect to ethno-stub or ethno-group-stub. -- Mairi 06:35, 29 December 2005 (UTC) reply

Comment: I've created {{ ethno-group-stub}}, but splitting the existing articles between that and {{ ethno-stub}} ought to be done by hand... Mairi 22:32, 10 January 2006 (UTC) reply

I've orphaned {{ ethnic-stub}} and listed {{ ethno-group-stub}} at WP:WSS/T for population. I think the redirect can now be deleted and this discussion logged. Conscious 14:21, 15 January 2006 (UTC) reply
It's not quite orphaned, thanks to the oddities of how links to redirects are handled. Special:Whatlinkshere/Template:Ethnic-stub now has a few more pages listed, then it'll be orphaned. -- Mairi 00:44, 16 January 2006 (UTC) reply
Did you have to touch all articles with {{ ethnic-stub}}, or does Whatlinkshere list change on its own? Anyway, I sorted what was in Special:Whatlinkshere/Template:Ethnic-stub Conscious 06:34, 16 January 2006 (UTC) reply
I touched all the articles with in both categories. Links-to-redirects show up on the Whatlinkshere of the page that's redirected-to ({{ ethno-stub}} in this case), but since {{ ethnic-stub}} isn't a redirect anymore, its Whatlinkshere gets updated when the relevant articles get touched or editted. I'll delete it now, since it's (in theory) orphanned... -- Mairi 23:03, 16 January 2006 (UTC) reply

December 16th

{{ Kosovo-geo-stub}} / Cat:Kosovo geography stubs

We've recently twice deleted variations on a Kosovo-stub, so I doubt we want this more specific one. Also unlikely to be of sufficient size. Delete -- Mairi 08:49, 16 December 2005 (UTC) reply

delete for all the same reasons that we deleted {{ Kosovo-stub}}. Cat:Montenegro geography stubs is woefully undersized - this one would be far worse. Grutness... wha? 09:47, 16 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete for probably chronic undersizing. I don't know if I'd be opposed to this one if this were brought to the threshold level though (provided users stick by Kosovo and Metohija as it is). Aecis praatpaal 15:44, 16 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Comment At 202 stubs, Serbia-geo-stub is hardly oversized, but with only two autonomous provinces ( Kosovo and Vojvodina) I wouldn't be surprised if either had the necessary 60 stubs. However, I would ask that the usual 60 stubs be shown if we're to keep it. Caerwine Caerwhine 16:06, 16 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • According to google, there are roughly 30 to 40 stubs in the category. There are probably quite a few red links relating to Kosovo out there, so this one might become viable. Aecis praatpaal 16:19, 16 December 2005 (UTC) reply
      • I only noticed about 15-20 while I was swapping over the SM-geo-stub to the two separate stubs a couple of weeks ago. That google count is probably high (several of the non-Kosovo locations mentioned the place in their articles). Grutness... wha? 05:24, 17 December 2005 (UTC) reply
        • True. It could include Serbian towns that border Kosovo, for instance. Aecis praatpaal 09:54, 17 December 2005 (UTC) reply

December 17th

{{ Caucasus-geo-stub}}

A redirect now to georgia-geo-stub, this hasn't been used since Georgia, Azerbaijan and Armenia all got their own geo-stubs. delete. Grutness... wha? 22:53, 17 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ US-Mil-hist-stub}}

From the discoveries page. A miscapitalized redirect of {{ US-mil-hist-stub}}. Delete Caerwine Caerwhine 22:24, 17 December 2005 (UTC) reply

one of the less useful miscapitalisations. delete. Grutness... wha? 22:50, 17 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ P2P-stub}}

No category, recently created, unused. For peer-to-peer file sharing, which doesn't even have a main category. Delete; perhaps rename to {{ filesharing-stub}} (or such) if that'd be viable. -- Mairi 05:38, 17 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ pro-life-stub}} / Category:Pro-life stubs

Newly created and added to 10 articles. Inherently POV and inappropriate for an encyclopedia. Delete — Slicing ( talk) 05:16, 17 December 2005 (UTC) reply

an easy POV-target. I'd be inclined to delete them, too... but these are redlinks. What's the real names? Grutness... wha? 05:19, 17 December 2005 (UTC) reply
Neutrality deleted them one minute after I posted the listing here. — Slicing ( talk) 05:20, 17 December 2005 (UTC) reply
no problem, then :) Grutness... wha? 05:21, 17 December 2005 (UTC) reply
I've undeleted them temporarily, because of an out of process deletion. That said, Delete.-- Sean| Bla ck 05:24, 17 December 2005 (UTC) reply
Looks like Neutrality has deleted them again. Aecis praatpaal 17:25, 20 December 2005 (UTC) reply
Delete — MESSEDROCKER ( talk) 05:28, 17 December 2005 (UTC) reply
Delete with extreme prejudice. → Ξxtreme Unction { yakł blah} 05:32, 17 December 2005 (UTC) reply
Delete with prejudice. (I wouldn't've minded seeing them stay deleted either, regardless of how out-of-process it was.) -- Mairi 05:47, 17 December 2005 (UTC) reply
Oh, Delete, please, and stay deleted, IAR-time. Bishonen | talk 14:47, 17 December 2005 (UTC) reply
Delete: The contributor seems to be up to no good, and we are not in the business of inherently POV articles, stubby or long. Geogre 14:48, 17 December 2005 (UTC) reply
Delete At best this should be {{ abortion-stub}} for articles relating to any of the sides in this contentious issue, but it really should be brought to the prooposals page considering the potential
Delete, delete, delete. Per all delete votes above. Encourages ignoring WP:NPOV. (Or move the category to be under Category:Pages to be deleted? No, don't.) FreplySpang (talk) 15:44, 17 December 2005 (UTC) reply
Abort. The term itself is POV as it's a propaganda term used instead of the slighty less POV "anti-abortion". -- carlb 05:15, 18 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ college-stub}}

college-stub redirects to university-stub but college can mean high school as well. its ambiguous and isnt being used (no articles have it) so should be deleted. BL kiss the lizard 10:58, 17 December 2005 (UTC) reply

Neutral In modern American English it is unambiguously a school of tertiary education when used in the context of education, which is the main context the word is used. I won't vote to delete it, but I wouldn't fight to save it from those who consider it too ambiguous either. Caerwine Caerwhine 15:30, 17 December 2005 (UTC) reply
here its just as likely to mean a high school. the nearest high schools to where i live are kavanagh college and kaikorai college. BL kiss the lizard 18:36, 17 December 2005 (UTC) reply
I agree - In New Zealand "college" can simply mean a "more posh" high school (a collegiate school) - the same's true in Australia IIRC. It is a bit ambiguous. Grutness... wha? 22:50, 17 December 2005 (UTC) reply
Delete: If 1) nothing uses it and 2) it redirects, then losing it hurts nothing, and the people making the redirect already realized the problem of ambiguity. In the US, it currently means post-secondary education, but it didn't used to (hence the 2nd oldest public high school in the US is Baltimore City College). We gain nothing by the stub, and we contribute to confusion. Geogre 10:24, 19 December 2005 (UTC) reply

Cat:La Raza stubs

Was deleted. See Wikipedia:Stub types for deletion/Log/Not deleted/December 2005#December 17th. Conscious 14:23, 27 January 2006 (UTC) reply

December 18th

{{ VD and BE-geo-stubs}} / Category:Vaud and Berne geography stubs

For 2 geography stubs from two different Swiss cantons ( Vaud and Bern). And while cantons are the logical way of splitting {{ Switzerland-geo-stub}}, at < 600 articles it hardly needs splitting. And even so, I'm not sure why we'd want to combine these two, and we certainly wouldn't want that template name. Delete. -- Mairi 04:42, 18 December 2005 (UTC) reply

totally unnecessary, and if we were going to split Switzerland we'd do it by individual cantons, not pairs of them. 'delete. This isn't the by the same editor who made that horrible grisons-stub a few months back is it? Grutness... wha? 09:24, 18 December 2005 (UTC) reply

December 20th

{{ Canadian-bio-stub}}

Unnecessary and unused bio-stub redirect. Created two days ago. By karmafist. Sigh. Delete. Grutness... wha? 06:30, 20 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ hardware-cvg-stub}} → {{ cvg-hardware-stub}}

While we do have stub templates of both the form *-cvg-stub and cvg-*-stub, the former are all used for genres and the pattern has been to place the cvg component where it would in ordinary language. Since this is for CVG hardware and not for "hardware computer and video games" I recommend we rename the template and delete the original. Caerwine Caerwhine 18:31, 20 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ film-awards-stub}} / Category:Film awards stubs → {{ film-award-stub}} / Category:Film award stubs

From plural to singular. Aecis praatpaal 14:08, 20 December 2005 (UTC) reply

December 21st

{{ Looney-tunes-stub}} → {{ LooneyTunes-stub}}

No hyphen, capital T, per similar names. Aecis praatpaal 16:36, 21 December 2005 (UTC) reply

Cat:Short films stubs → Cat:Short film stubs

From plural to singular. Aecis praatpaal 16:40, 21 December 2005 (UTC) reply

December 22nd

{{ world-music-song-stub}} → {{ worldmusic-song-stub}}

Rename misnamed template. -- Bruce1ee 09:01, 22 December 2005 (UTC) reply

Summary: Moved and redirect kept. -- TheParanoidOne 22:55, 29 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ American Football-stub}}

Karmafist strikes again. Delete this misnamed unused redirect. Grutness... wha? 07:46, 22 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • At least this time he picked a worthy target. {{ Amfootball-stub}} doesn't follow the naming guidelines 100% because of the abreviated American and it gets worse when you consider that instead of {{ Amfootballbio-stub}} the associated biography stub is {{ Amfootbio-stub}} instead. That said having a template that doesn't follow the naming guidelines 100% doesn't call for adding a redirect that violates them worse. Delete per nom. Caerwine Caerwhine 13:57, 22 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete {{ American Football-stub}} and {{ Amfootball-stub}}, and replace them with {{ AmericanFootball-stub}}. Aecis praatpaal 22:54, 22 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • On second thoughts, that's a far better solution. Grutness... wha? 01:11, 23 December 2005 (UTC) reply
      • You mean {{ Americanfootball-stub}} don't you? The football here isn't a proper noun, which is as it should be, since the rest of the world keeps telling us that there is nothing proper about our football. Caerwine Caerwhine 02:23, 23 December 2005 (UTC) reply
        • oops - right you are gov. Yes, it was {{ Americanfootball-stub}} that I meant. Grutness... wha? 06:31, 23 December 2005 (UTC) reply
        • You're absolutely right, Caerwine: there's nothing proper about your football ;) I don't see why the template should be renamed to {{ Americanfootball-stub}} though. Aecis praatpaal 00:24, 24 December 2005 (UTC) reply
          • Because the naming guidelines call for avoiding abbreviations, except those on out exceptions list. We don't use "Am" as a abbreviation for the United States, nor should we, It's an inobvious abbreviation that only a lover of jargon could love. At best I could see using an abbrevated version of "Americanfootball" to form combination stubs, but at the root level for the topic, the unabbreviated version should be available to those who don't memorize the stublist. Ideally, no one should be forced to consult the stub list to find a proper name for single hyphen stub that exists and follows the basic naming conventions. Caerwine Caerwhine 05:55, 24 December 2005 (UTC) reply
        • This one might be a bit too non-intuitive, but in some countries (such as NZ & Australia) the sport is called gridiron. We have hoops-stub for basketball... how would gridiron-stub do? Yeah, okay, I know - bad idea. Grutness... wha? 06:00, 24 December 2005 (UTC) reply
          • While I think that term is fairly well-known in the US, gridiron football indicates that it's used to also refer to Canadian football. So it might not be the best choice... -- Mairi 06:54, 24 December 2005 (UTC) reply
            • Except for a few minor rule differences, the two games are essentially the same, much as rugby union and rugby league are essentially the same game. Having {{ gridiron-stub}} as a redirect (or even the base stub) would be fine with me. Caerwine Caerwhine 07:49, 24 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete If it's unused then why bother keeping it. -- Thorri 12:47, 25 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete as per thorri Circeus 02:02, 28 December 2005 (UTC) reply

December 23rd

{{ Tolkienstub}} to {{ tolkien-stub}}

The stub template name needs a hyphen. This is a move that has already been requested at requested moves back in June, but nothing was done with that request. Another thing that might need fixing is the parent category, Cat:Tolkien stubs. It lists Cat:Tolkien stub as a subcategory, which is simply a redirect to Cat:Tolkien stubs. I don't believe this circular categorization is what we need. Aecis praatpaal 00:14, 23 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • sounds completely reasonable. support. And category redirects don't work anyway, so there's no real need to have the Cat:Tolkien stub redirect at all. Grutness... wha? 01:07, 23 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Keep the resulting template redirect. -- SPUI ( talk) 01:12, 23 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • move and delete the incorrectly named tolkienstub. BL kiss the lizard 06:18, 23 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Support as per BL Circeus 02:01, 28 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ US-northeast-geo-stub}} and Cat:Northeastern US geography stubs

every state in the US NE now has its own =geotemplat and no stubs use this template any more. so why do we need it? delete BL kiss the lizard 07:47, 23 December 2005 (UTC) reply

An alternative would be to redefine the northeast for the purposes of stub sorting. While we have been using the Census Bureau's split, that was likely because map images showing the regions were already on the wiki. There are other splits out there that would include Maryland, Delaware, and DC. Delaware and DC don't yet have geo stubs of their own, so making the move would keep this stub as viable and bring the southern geo stubs down to a single page. On the other hand, making this change would involve a good deal more work. Either change scope or delete. Caerwine Caerwhine 00:49, 24 December 2005 (UTC) reply
Lordy, it is empty! Yet another possibility might be to keep the category as a holding pen for those states, but delete the template. That would mean 1) no states in among the regions in the main US geo-stub category; 2) no constant emptying of US northeast into separate state categories. That would be a reasonable temporary solution until such times as all US states have categories (but given that Delaware has five geo-stubs, that may still be a while away). Grutness... wha? 01:01, 24 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Keep as holding pen regional stuff is likely to end up dumped there too. Circeus 01:53, 29 December 2005 (UTC) reply

Summary: Template deleted. Category kept as a container for the individual state categories. -- TheParanoidOne 15:26, 31 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ New Hampshire politician-stub}}

another karmafist special. unused. misnamed. unneccesary. delete. BL kiss the lizard 06:29, 23 December 2005 (UTC) reply

(rolls eyes) delete. Grutness... wha? 06:41, 23 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Keep, useful redirect. Christopher Parham (talk) 07:35, 23 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • whats the point in having rules for naming things if we keep templates which dont follow those rules? BL kiss the lizard 07:51, 23 December 2005 (UTC) reply
      • This doesn't violate any naming conventions; there are no naming conventions for redirects. Christopher Parham (talk) 07:55, 23 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • It's a stub type. there are naming rules for stub types. BL kiss the lizard 09:52, 23 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Keep a useful redirect. Please take redirects to WP:RFD, their proper place. -- SPUI ( talk | don't use sorted stub templates!) 16:45, 23 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per nom. Caerwine Caerwhine 00:34, 24 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete - created to prove a point. Aecis Mr. Mojo risin' 13:35, 25 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • delete Circeus 02:00, 28 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete about the only case where I can see redirects-with-spaces being reasonably useful is spaces within proper nouns, or other such names (and I'm not even sure that's all that useful). But this isn't that case. -- Mairi 07:01, 29 December 2005 (UTC) reply

December 24th

Category:Television biographical stubs to Category:Television biography stubs

Proposed name follows the [noun]-stub model. Aecis praatpaal 00:21, 24 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • support. makes sense to keep it consistent Grutness... wha? 00:55, 24 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Rename per nom. Caerwine Caerwhine 01:18, 24 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Support Je crois que c'est rationnel. -- Thorri 12:44, 25 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Support I also agree that it makes sense. ( Davehard 12:35, 26 December 2005 (UTC) ) reply
  • Support clearer name. Circeus 01:58, 28 December 2005 (UTC) reply

December 27th

Four Ancient Egypt stub types

Proposed today and created today. Unfortunately, between the time of proposal and creation, debate was clearly heading towards three of these being unnecessary and the fourth being made with another name. What's more, none of these have dedicated categories. None of them have been used on any articles. Grutness... wha? 11:23, 27 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ Ancient-Egypt-military-stub}}

If needed, it should be {{ Ancient-Egypt-mil-stub}}, but with only 350 Ancient Egypt stubs, it's unnecessary - it's unlikely to get anywhere near 60 stubs. At least rename it and give it a category, but preferably delete. Grutness... wha? 11:13, 27 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • Delete per nom. Caerwine Caerwhine
  • delete Circeus 01:57, 28 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete Valentinian 19:55, 28 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • delete. BL kiss the lizard 08:09, 29 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. Grutness is very wise: stubs are meant to help people find articles in need of work, not to categorize topics endlessly. And 350 is hardly an unwiedly size for a category. -- llywrch 22:16, 30 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • Thanks for the compliment, but it's standard stub-sorting practice, so it's not really "my" wisdom! :) Grutness... wha? 22:31, 31 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ Ancient-Egypt-building-stub}}

If needed, it should be {{ Egypt-struct-stub}}, but at last count there were only 12 Egyptian structures, ancient or modern, with stubs, it's unnecessary. At least rename it and give it a category, but preferably delete. Grutness... wha? 11:13, 27 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ Ancient-Egypt-bio-stub}}

{{ Greece-bio-stub}} covers both ancient and modern Greece adequately with no problems. {{ Egypt-bio-stub}} - which already exists - covers both ancient and modern Egypt with no problems. Delete this one. Grutness... wha? 11:13, 27 December 2005 (UTC) reply

PS - for the time being, I've made this a redirect to Egypt-bio-stub. Grutness... wha? 11:19, 27 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Keep as a redirect from an alternate name per nom. Caerwine Caerwhine 19:17, 27 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • um... how can you say "keep as a redirect per nom", when the nominator said "delete"? My redirect was only a temporary one, rather than creating a category we might have to delete again. Grutness... wha? 09:51, 29 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • redirect Circeus 01:57, 28 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • delete per nom BL kiss the lizard 08:09, 29 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. I might have voted "keep" on this, but I doubt Egyptian bio-stubs from other historical periods will ever grow large enough to force us to split this category again. (And if that is the case, let's make the stubs into articles!) -- llywrch 22:16, 30 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Keep the redirect. -- SPUI ( talk - don't use sorted stub templates!) 07:13, 3 January 2006 (UTC) reply

{{ Ancient-Egypt-mythology-stub}}

The only one which I'd vote to keep, but since we have {{ Greek-myth-stub}}, {{ Norse-myth-stub}} etc, this should be {{ Egyptian-myth-stub}}. Rename, and give it a dedicated category. Grutness... wha? 11:13, 27 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • Rename per nom to fit the naming convention for *-myth-stub, but also keep as a redirect from an alternate name. Caerwine Caerwhine 19:17, 27 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • rename no need to redirect. someoe tryingto categorize that wouldbe familiar enoughto get the right template.. Circeus 01:57, 28 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • This is getting ridiculous. This has been re-created with the new proposed name in the middle of a vote - there is still no correct category link, and the new name has a sfd notice on it. What's more, it was recreated by copy and paste - the old template still exists. Yorktown, please stop messing around with the template in the middle of a vote! Since there is now a completely separate template with a more standard name, there's no need to keep this old one or redirect it - the situation has changed enough that we probably need to start this vote all over again... Grutness... wha? 02:34, 28 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete Taking a closer look, I see I misread it. I could see keeping {{ Ancient-Egypt-myth-stub}} as a redirect from an alternate name, but not the -mythology- form. After all, we have {{ Ancient-Rome-myth-stub}} instead of {{ Roman-myth-stub}}. Caerwine Caerwhine 04:56, 28 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • delete. BL kiss the lizard 08:09, 29 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Rename. I created the original {{ Ancient-Egypt-stub}} about a year or so ago, I was amazed at how many myth-related subs about ancient Egypt there were. I suspect this will always be a large category, no matter how many are turned into articles. (As an aside, one other category whose creation is defensible would be {{ Ancient-Egypt-geo-stub}} for the ancient nomes & archeological sites -- or the appropriate version per the standards.) -- llywrch 22:16, 30 December 2005 (UTC) reply
    • yes and no - although I see your point, we only split geo-stubs by present county, otherwise things could get very messy (for instance,a place in Turkey, could get a Turkey-geo-stub, Ottoman-geo-stub, Arabia-geo-stub, Ancient-Rome-geo-stub and Ancient-Greece-geo-stub). Keeping geo-stubs to current political boundaries keeps stub-sporting simpler without disadvantagine editrs, since if a place has a very stong link to one historical period it could be double stubbed ( Corinium, for instance, is marked with Ancient-Rome-stub and Gloucestershire-geo-stub). Grutness... wha? 22:31, 31 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Rename to {{ Egyptian-myth-stub}}. {{ Ancient-Egypt-myth-stub}} would be fine as a redirect as per Caerwine. It also needs to have a category created. -- Mairi 05:03, 2 January 2006 (UTC) reply

Author's Note:

After much consideration I have decided to delete {{ Ancient-Egypt-military-stub}}. As for the other 3 stubs I am going to keep them. There are several dozen Ancient Egyptian pharaohs from this time period hence need for {{ Ancient-Egypt-bio-stub}}. I am going to rename {{ Ancient-Egypt-mythology-stub}} to {{ Ancient-Egypt-myth-stub}}. In regards to {{ Ancient-Egypt-building-stub}} there are over 60 unnamed pyramids in The Valley of The Kings that would fall under this category as well as several other Egyptian monuments. Though I will rename it {{ Ancient-Egypt-struct-stub}}. Thank you for your time.

Yorktown1776 14:49, 27 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • Those 60 unnamed pyramids are all located in Egypt and since {{ Egypt-struct-stub}} is hardly full (it doesn't even exist yet) I fail to see the need to split off a separate stub for just Ancient Egypt at this time. Indeed, since they are unnamed, I find it highly unlikely that they are individually notable enough for each to have a separate article in a general purpose encylcopedia. Caerwine Caerwhine 19:17, 27 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Please wait until the sfd process is done rather than making what look like fairly arbitrary renames and other changes. Ancient-Egypt-struct-stub and Ancient-Egypt-myth-stub are still unacceptable names, so if you make those changes, they'll simply come back here to sfd anyway - making more work for everyone in the process. As to the 60 unnamed pyramids, if they do not all articles, then there is no need for a stub category for them. Also I don't know what you mean by the military stub being "removed" - it still exists and will still need to be dealt with. Grutness... wha? 23:17, 27 December 2005 (UTC) reply

December 28th

{{ Ancient-Egypt-struct-stub}}

Seeing that {{ ancient-Egypt-building-stub}} was listed for deletion (see below), the creator of it re-created it at a new name (not a redirect, a new stub!). It's still the wrong name (it would be {{ Egypt-struct-stub}} if needed), and it's still not needed. Delete. Grutness... wha? 00:17, 28 December 2005 (UTC) reply

December 29th

{{ Baseballbat-stub}}

BJAODN, anyone? Szyslak ( [ +t, +c, +m, +e ]) 12:17, 29 December 2005 (UTC) reply

December 30th

{{ Mass-stub}} (redirect)

sadly this doesn't match the bat one for silliness. This is a redirect - ah, but to what? Massachusetts-stub, apparently (one which isn't listed as existing anywhere that I can see...). But it could just as easily refer to religious services, or to weights and measures, so it's really too ambiguous to be in any way useful. Oh, and it doesn't appear ever to have been used, either. Grutness... wha? 06:32, 30 December 2005 (UTC) reply

Strong Keep (but see my change below) In Massachusetts, "Mass" is very often used as a substitute for "Massachusetts." "Massachusetts" is also a very long word that is often misspelled even by Massachusetts residents. Thus, "Mass" is a useful abbreviation. - Mark Adler (Markles) 11:53, 30 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete per Grutness. Mass is indeed frequently used for Massachusetts, and would therefore have been very useful if it hadn't also had other meanings. I'm afraid this one is too ambiguous, which is sad, because Massachusetts is indeed probably the hardest state name in the US. Perhaps {{ Massach-stub}} is an option? Aecis Mr. Mojo risin' 13:46, 30 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete is fine per Mairi. I'll concede defeat here. Mairi's idea is a good enough compromise: US-MA-stub or US-Mass-stub. - Mark Adler (Markles) 19:51, 30 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • i dont like redirects, but i cant spell well either, so US-MA-stub sounds good :) BL kiss the lizard 22:20, 30 December 2005 (UTC) reply

December 31st

{{ Notgaybaseballbat-stub}}

Delete Duplicate of {{ Baseballbat-stub}} from the same creator, but this one was apparently designed to save time by preincluding the {sfd-t} notice. Caerwine Caerwhine 18:57, 31 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ Gloucestershire-stub}} and Cat:Gloucestershire stubs

As noted by Circeus at the discoveries talk page, it's time the backlog was cleaned. This is one of the most obvious candidates. Created on September 23, used on 1 article since then. Delete. And have a happy New Year! Conscious 14:56, 31 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • delete none of the other counties have one, and there's no real reason for any of them to have one. Grutness... wha? 23:00, 31 December 2005 (UTC) reply
  • Delete Circeus 16:23, 1 January 2006 (UTC) reply

{{ Argentina-poli-stub}} and Cat:Argentina politics stubs

Created on August 29, used on 8 articles since then. Delete. Conscious 16:17, 31 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ Iraq-war-stub}}

Created on June 17, not used at all. Delete. Conscious 18:18, 31 December 2005 (UTC) reply

{{ Organometallic-compound-stub}} / Cat:Organometallic compound stubs, {{ Organometallic-compound-start}} / Cat:Incomplete organometallic compound articles

These are a bit trickier. Created on October 30, used on 1 and 3 articles respectively. I think that the second pair is still in the SFD scope, as the template wording suggests. The parent type {{ organic-compound-stub}} is quite populated (<700). I say we delete all these and re-create when and if it is desirable in the process of splitting {{ organic-compound-stub}}. Conscious 18:18, 31 December 2005 (UTC) reply

  • Probably need a word with the wikiproject that deals with this one, but start vs stub isn't really a useful differentiation - it reeks of stub vs substub. There may be some use of an organometallic-compound-stub sooner or later, so I'd be amenable to a merge of these two, but given how little used they are, deletion would also be a reasonable option. Grutness... wha? 23:00, 31 December 2005 (UTC) reply
Retrieved from " https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Wikipedia:Stub_types_for_deletion/Log/Deleted/December_2005&oldid=1089370046"

Videos

Youtube | Vimeo | Bing

Websites

Google | Yahoo | Bing

Encyclopedia

Google | Yahoo | Bing

Facebook




Top Of Page

Home • Search • Translate

© CSE