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Does anyone know whether Dr. David C.F. Wright and the bios on his site www.wrightmusic.net are reliable ? I've not heard of him. A number of his biographies are being used as sources. I stumbled across him while looking at the Reginald Smith Brindle article. The ext link used to link to one of his bios but that has apparently been removed from the site. The original Smith Brindle bio is available at www.wrightmusic.net here. It cites no sources, none of his articles cite sources, and the article seems rather personal. I'll also note that according to his own bio on his site here, Wright has exposed "the lies of Richard Dawkins.....the nonsense of evolution", which doesn't fill me with confidence. So, any thoughts on whether he qualifies as an RS at least for music bios (not the modern evolutionary synthesis) ? Sean.hoyland - talk 19:13, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
Hi. I would like to get a review of this report by the Swedish think-tank Expo (which also runs the Expo_(magazine)). In my opinion it seems to be a well-founded analysis of the counterjihad movement, but I'm worried that it's affiliation with a foundation that has a stated mission would make it a likely target for attack. benjamil talk/ edits 22:39, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
I'd like to user this same opportunity to raise the question on using Expo as a source at Sweden Democrats (a parliamentary political party in Sweden). That was discussed at the article's talk page here, but I don't agree with the persons who replied it that anyone questioning the neutrality of the source is "only a far-right extremeist". Expo runs an anti-Sweden Democrats campaign, quite provocatively with domain http://www.sverigedemokraterna.de/ To me it seems like Expo does some good human rights activism but it also has sections that are politically highly active, and atleast using it as source on a political party that they declare to oppose is a conflict of interests. So in my opinion, Expo can be used as a source certainly if the magazine is quoting an expert and thus the expert is the author, some of their projects too but specific political entitities like SD are out of the question because they're itself involved in it. -- Pudeo ' 16:55, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
At User:Toshio Yamaguchi/Wieferich prime I am preparing some content that I later want to include in the article Wieferich prime. At the section User:Toshio Yamaguchi/Wieferich prime#Connection with Sophie Germain primes I wrote a short passage about the connection of Wieferich primes with Sophie Germain primes. My question is, is the source I used, namely this paper on arXiv an acceptable source for the statements it cites? -- Toshio Yamaguchi ( tlk− ctb) 14:48, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
PS: If you reply, please place
==Talkback Reliable sources/Noticeboard==
{{Talkback|Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard|arXiv paper|ts=~~~~~}}
~~~~
on my talkpage. -- Toshio Yamaguchi ( tlk− ctb) 23:27, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
This is a bad penny that just keeps on turning up heads, so I thought I would try to put it to the community for an opinion. There are those who edit 'Yugoslavia in WW2' articles who question whether the subject book is a WP:RS on that general subject. The general theme of these objections is that Cohen was apparently a dentist (if he was, he may still be one, I don't know), and therefore it is not a. reliable, or b. he's an amateur and it could only be a tertiary source at best. Here is the Google Books link to the book in question [2]. The book is published by Texas A&M University Press, is part of a series on East European Studies edited by Stjepan Meštrović, and has a foreword by the late David Riesman, who was at that time the Henry Ford II Professor of Social Sciences Emeritus at Harvard University. Cohen uses footnotes from other secondary WP:RS on the subject such as Tomasevich, Milazzo, Roberts etc, but the work is extensively footnoted, and Riesman concludes inter alia 'this volume will be useful to scholars specialising in the history and current politics and policies in the Balkans and Serbia in particular.' On this occasion it just happens to be the Ante Pavelic article where it has been challenged, but it has been challenged on other 'Yugoslavia in WW2' articles before. I ask for a community view on this book as a WP:RS on the subject of 'Yugoslavia in WW2' generally, because I think that would suffice for the moment. If there is a more specific challenge to a specific part of the book for a specific article, I will of course bring it back here. Regards, Peacemaker67 ( talk) 05:09, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
The other related issue is that Cohen produces the same information about the Iron Cross in his 1997 book "The World War II and contemporary Chetniks: their historico-political continuity and implications for stability in the Balkans" p. 34, and I was wondering if you had access to a review of that book to help with an assessment of its reliability? Peacemaker67 ( talk) 11:26, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
Would this site which provides a detailed study on the the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline project [3] be acceptable to use as a reference? Thanks! Gandydancer ( talk) 14:14, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
Hey peoples. Does any know if this can be considered a reliable source for the article Nightswimming (Awake). Cheers, TBran dl ey 01:19, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
There are some "List of _______ episodes" articles that I would like to create at some point for various TV shows (most of them 1950s-60s era) but I anticipate that the only secondary sources I'll be able to find that actually list them will most likely be sites like TV.com. I know IMDb isn't a reliable source, but has the issue of TV.com every come up? Evanh2008 ( talk| contribs) 09:13, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
Non-Profit Data http://www.npdata.be , is used in several articles e.g. Belgium, Brussels, Demographics of Belgium, Islam in Belgium and Greek diaspora to support facts concerning the number or percentage of immigrants. It's in Dutch, which I don't understand too well, nor do I know if whatever sources the site uses are reliable. The site appears to contain almost only articles about crime and immigrants, which might indicate a right-wing bias, and at least some of the references were added by a now banned user with a strong anti-immigration POV. Sjö ( talk) 18:04, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
Is there a Wikipedia administrator who knows about psuedoscience or any project about psuodoscience I can talk to, because I am trying to keep collaboration and factual information with the Western astrology and Chinese zodiac signs. What I am trying to think is making two new articles to redirect where all the signs and information are in one article. An article for the list and facts of Western astrology and one for the Chinese zodiac, and other horoscopes. There are repeats of sabatage deletions from among IP and confirmed users who believe it is useless, when from earlier users it was stated as reliable as facts. In truth I am just stating the facts, the article doesn't mean it is true, it's only stating mythological details, such as a person born in the year of Rat, it is only stating folkore. I would really like to make two articles where I can redirect each sign and paste in to the articles for Western astrology and Chinese zodiac. Edit also on WP:Help desk.-- GoShow ( ...............) 18:18, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
See WP:POVFORK (and WP:NPA). AndyTheGrump ( talk) 20:03, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
On Talk:Golden Joystick Award, a user with a declared COI wants to include the statement that "It is organised by Future plc, publishers of magazines such as Computer and Video Games and Official Nintendo Magazine" replacing a previous statement about the organizer. After being asked for independent sources, this user has provided a link to the Professional Publishers Association ( http://www.ppa.co.uk/news/industry/future-publishing-announces-29th-annual-golden-joystick-awards/). This looks like a press release to me. Does the PPA have sufficient editorial independence and fact checking to accept it as a reliable source for the factual statement that this award is "organised by Future plc"? This ought not to be a highly controversial statement, I would think. The COI user has also provided links to Future's own sites. Advice would be welcome. DES (talk) 12:08, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
There's a bit of a dispute over whether weather2travel is a reliable source for sunshine data (and sea temperature data) in the Istanbul article. Here is the edit in context. (Note that the source gives sunshine data rounded to the nearest whole number and the article converts that to monthly data.) Any additional opinions on the reliability of this source would be appreciated. -- tariqabjotu 15:00, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
I would like to know:
During the civil war in Somalia, various bogus websites have gone up (some quite amusing) and gone down, so there's a bit of confusion here. Robert Young Pelton's Somalia Report recently discussed this issue and linked to somaligov.net as the official Somali government website: "The TFG site is officially here."
Various other bodies also cite somaligov.net as their official Somali federal government contact, including the Africa Mining Projects/ Afrimine and the defence and security specialist IHS Jane's in its Jane's International Defence Directory. Middayexpress ( talk) 13:56, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
There is reason to doubt some of the material on the Louis T McFadden page is from an un-biased source. The actual vigor with which that article attempts to place a label on McFadden is clearly fodder for the neutral point of view forum but the single source used to label McFadden is biased. The Mcfadden [1]page sites numerous articles form a single source which cites itself. The source is biased and the items in the article are placed there with prejudice and mailice. There is a reference from a 'reporter' named Drew Pearson [2]whose wikipedia page states in the opening sentence that Pearson often made claims with no proof - yet wikipedia considers Pearson's yellow press to be encyclopedic enough to appear in the biography of an individual who served as Chairman of the US House Committee on Banking and Currency for eleven years. I am not about to claim that McFadden may not have made some comments that offended individuals of the Jewish faith. I will remind you that in the 1930's and 20's discrimination against many of the Jewish faith was not uncommon, rather quite common. I will claim however that the article on McFadden is heavily biased by the single source of the JTA. It is impossible to look at the article and see the single self citing source attempting so vehemently to condemn McFadden with a label one cannot believe that this is not baised and malicious and done with prejudice to hang a certain label on McFadden and therefore marginalse his work. Having the single source of the JTA relentlessly quoted is done for a single reason. Only substantiating the biased claims of the JTA with JTA [3] citations fails on scholarly and news organizations points 142.68.89.59 ( talk) 14:57, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
I've found a scholarly source on this so it isn't as though we have to rely on contemporary news reports. See Jenkins, Philip (1997). Hoods and Shirts: The Extreme Right in Pennsylvania, 1925-1950. University of North Carolina Press. pp. 117–120. for an extensive section discussing his antisemitic career. Mangoe ( talk) 20:34, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
Does anyone know if any part of India-Forums can be considered a reliable source? This site describes itself as "an established television discussion forum" and "an online youth networking site", but there are also a lot of non-forum articles on the site. Many are simply reprints of production companies' press releases, or user-submitted content. The remainder I'm not sure about; it looks mostly like celebrity gossip to me, and I have no idea if there's any independent editorial oversight. We have a lot of links to this site, many (most?) of which have been added to various Indian TV articles by sockpuppets and anonymous IPs; it's also the source of a disturbing number of copy-and-paste copyright violations:
And the above are just the ones people have bothered to report with the full URL spelled out; there are many more where different link text is used, and for fresh cases most editors just revert on sight. Is there any reason this site shouldn't be on XLinkBot's revert list? — Psychonaut ( talk) 15:55, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
I am seeking to add a Political Position in the infobox of the Australian Greens. The party is the fourth largest in Australia. It holds 1 out of 150 seats in the Australian House of Representatives. The other seats are held by the Liberal Party of Australia, the Australian Labor Party, and the National Party of Australia. Each of these contains a political position. The Greens have various policies that would fit into the Left-wing politics category. These include gay marriage, a 40% pollution cut by 2020, voluntary euthanasia, opposition to the Iraq and Afghanistan war, abolition of the Monarchy of Australia, cuts in funding for private schools, free University education for all, free health and dental care for all, compulsury student unionism, abolition of private health insurance rebate, increase access to abortion, increased public housing, no mandatory detention of asylum seekers who arrive by boat, an end to the Pacific Solution, end the Northern Territory emergency response, increased multicultural programmes, gay adoption, establish intersex as a gender, increased restrictions on the media; particulary News Limited, increased social security, a stronger line on Israel-Palestine, increase overseas aid and increased rights for unions. These policies are all available on www.greens.org.au/policies. Some are available in the Wikipedia article.
The Wikipedia article on Left-wing politics notes 'In politics, the Left, left-wing, and leftists are people or views which generally support social change to create a more egalitarian society. They usually involve a concern for those in society who are disadvantaged relative to others and an assumption that there are unjustified inequalities'. This describes the Greens perfectly. The page also says 'the term (left-wing) was applied to a number of revolutionary movements...including green politics'. The Greens are clearly to the left of Labor, which is described as 'centre-left'.
I also note that other Green parties around the world, affiliated to Global Greens such as Green Party of England and Wales, Green Party of the United States, Scottish Greens, Wales Green Party and Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand are described on their articles as 'left-wing'. One particular user has reacted to my proposal quite vigorously. Others have expressed support, others opposition. I am having some trouble with my sources, with one user in particular questioning their reliability. The sources are: Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade: http://www.dfat.gov.au/facts/sys_gov.html
Act Now http://www.actnow.com.au/Opinion/Whats_the_difference_between_left_and_right_wing.aspx
Oz Parties http://ldp.org.au/quiz/ozparties.html
Sky News http://www.skynews.com.au/politics/article.aspx?id=785779
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/3812920.html
Article by Greens Senator Lee Rhiannon http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/4156564.html
http://overland.org.au/previous-issues/issue-199/feature-tad-tietze/
More reliable sources I think:
Encyclopedia of World Constititions Page 54 http://books.google.com.au/books?id=M3A-xgf1yM4C&pg=PR23&lpg=PR23&dq=encyclopedia+of+world+constitutions&source=bl&ots=YdnwQpZEuo&sig=nziEolioj7GZIhu_oiEwdpN3mJs&hl=en&sa=X&ei=e7FCUL2BCYyZiAeBlYHoCg&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=encyclopedia%20of%20world%20constitutions&f=false
Left Turn by Antony Loewenstein http://books.google.com.au/books?id=M3A-xgf1yM4C&pg=PR23&lpg=PR23&dq=encyclopedia+of+world+constitutions&source=bl&ots=YdnwQpZEuo&sig=nziEolioj7GZIhu_oiEwdpN3mJs&hl=en&sa=X&ei=e7FCUL2BCYyZiAeBlYHoCg&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=encyclopedia%20of%20world%20constitutions&f=false
Endame for the West in Afghanistan study http://books.google.com.au/books?id=YZCpm7n4JoIC&pg=PT24&lpg=PT24&dq=australian+greens+left-wing&source=bl&ots=yVzH-p--S4&sig=iYYk2CRmwGpXO-noLdbvkY0eMVw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=prFCUNKeE42XiQf4mIHQDQ&ved=0CEwQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=australian%20greens%20left-wing&f=false
The Death of Social Democracy by Ashley Lavelle http://books.google.com.au/books/about/The_Death_of_Social_Democracy.html?id=e-V-2PYJWVkC&redir_esc=y
Ideas and Actions in the Green Movement http://books.google.com.au/books?id=4zJcjo9fofsC&pg=PA82&lpg=PA82&dq=australian+greens+left-wing&source=bl&ots=F9dNFD_Ouj&sig=9lHoKPnVudRDGy9S0rJgSjpRDhc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=prFCUNKeE42XiQf4mIHQDQ&ved=0CGMQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=australian%20greens%20left-wing&f=false
Could some people comment on the reliability of these sources. That would be of much help. Welshboyau11 ( talk) 02:49, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
Here is another source: a Greens magazine http://wa.greens.org.au/system/files/private/GI%20webaugust2012.pdf where the party is described as 'Clearly left-wing'. Welshboyau11 ( talk) 04:35, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
This argument is not really about sources. The sources listed above, along with others, can clearly be used to support a section in the article that deals with the political position of the Australian Greens. However, this editor, who is now forum shopping, wants to just add the two words "left wing" to an infobox. Many editors think that a more nuanced approach should be taken and not add anything to the infobox. The political position of this political party is not simple. This is not an issue about sources, but about editorial judgement. -- Bduke (Discussion) 05:06, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
In the current established version of Richard Dawkins article there is a passage describing RD's view on religion being a virus. I am proposing in this edit to add Michael Shermer's criticism on this specific topic. On top of Shermer's original book, I found a secondary source that cites the very criticism by Shermer. The question is whether these two sources together bare enough reliability for the added content.-- 216.31.219.19 ( talk) 08:01, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
-- 216.31.219.19 ( talk) 13:30, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
-- 216.31.219.19 ( talk) 15:29, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
Then you are using it in it's capacity as a primary source for the quote. It does not help with weight though. IRWolfie- ( talk) 15:15, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
I would like a set of eyes to check the edits by a relatively inexperienced editor. They did a great thing by creating Cupio dissolvi, but are using unreliable sources (I'll get to the synthesis part later) to argue that this phrase is somehow identical to death drive. Such sources include this from Encyclopedia of Life Support Systems (caution: user has the tendency to cite archived versions that are almost illegible), and this forum for a translation and another here (which are needless and interpretative; I found plenty of reliable translations in the published sources (see the Wolfskeel, Balint, Screech references). This PDF, from some website containing an interview with Sudhir Kakar serves as a quick synthesis to help editor equate Christian mysticism with Freud's death drive. I would propose that Kakar (whose article is a bit of a puff piece) is not qualified as a scholar of Christian mysticism and that the equation is unwarranted if based on this interview.
By way of historical reference, this was the article as I found it. Note, for instance, the many "references" that are in fact Google searches. Drmies ( talk) 17:20, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
" Government Hooker" is currently a featured article candidate, and Wikipedian Penguin ( talk · contribs) has brought up concerns with two ( [4])( [5]) the sources used in the article. Both of these sources are from PopCrush. He has been unable to find any editorial qualifications or previous information for Amy Sciarretto, the individual responsible for writing the articles. I was originally reluctant to use a PopCrush source, as I am not fond of the website's format. It came to my attention that is was the only non-blogging site that directly verifies that the song was featured in a promotional video for the 2011 MTV Video Music Awards. In addition, her review can be seen in the "reception" section of the article. I used it because reviews for the song were very limited to begin with. It is also worth nothing that various good articles use PopCrush to verify some of its information. — DAP388 ( talk) 21:49, 04 September 2012 (UTC)
Is Filmtracks.com a reliable source? I would like to use it for the music section in Sense and Sensibility. It is solely run by Christian Clemmensen, who explains his background here. I came across it randomly; thoughts would be appreciated. Ruby 2010/ 2013 05:40, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
An editor is edit warring to remove an attributed quote to CSICOP saying it is not reliable. See [6]:
Can regulars please give their opinions on whether this statement is reliably sourced. IRWolfie- ( talk) 15:28, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
1) Can the website Sattigadu - http://www.sattigadu.com/ be used as reference for any article related to Indin Cinema. I feel it can definitely be. Just wanted confirmation. 2)It can be used for articles realted to various film stars from Indian film industry and thier films. 3)Example - http://www.sattigadu.com/happy-birthday-to-ajith-kumar.html - says that ajithkumar's father is Pallakkad Iyer - so this source can be used in Wiki article on Ajith Kumar. Onceshook1 ( talk) 05:43, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
This is a book about WW II by Russian revisionist historian Dyukov. The book was described here. According to preface of the book in Russian, the purpose of the book is to refute mainstream "Western" historians who are described as "enemies" conducting "Goebbels propaganda". ("Наши враги — и внешние, и внутренние — покушаются на самое святое — на народную память о Великой Отечественной войне. ... Вторя геббельсовской пропаганде, псевдоисторики внушают нам...Эта книга — отповедь клеветникам, опровержение самых грязных, самых лживых мифов о Великой Отечественной войне, распространяемых врагами России." Google translation: Our enemies - external or internal - encroach on the most sacred - on people's memory of the Great Patriotic War. ... Echoing the Goebbels propaganda, pseudo-historians inspire us ... This book - a rebuke to the slanderers, the refutation of the most sordid, the false myths about the Great Patriotic War, distributed by enemies of Russia.). There is currently a discussion here about using a chapter from this book in Soviet invasion of Manchuria. Does "The Great War Slandered" qualify as RS about WW II? My very best wishes ( talk) 20:04, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
Excuse the comparison but if Dyukov is seriously denying deaths during Stalin's population transfers, wouldn't that make him about as reliable as David Irving? Machinarium ( talk) 11:12, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
I find the "defending Western scholarship" to be a most remarkable claim here, indeed. The author appears to be in a "time warp" at best, and the artice, while his views may be cited as an extreme minority, I suppose, should give no more weight to his "interesting views" that it does to the views of others who deny that Stalin was anything less than a saint. And when we have strong reliable sources showing that a source has errors, that does not mean we perpetuate the errors as "fact" - the opinions are citable only as opinion, and shuld not be given in Wikipedia's voice as "fact." Cheers. Collect ( talk) 11:51, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
What publishers publish his book? - "Europe», «Regnum» «Eksmo." This also tells about something. «Regnum» is headed by Kolerov who served in the administration of the president, "Europe" - is Pawlowski and his center."
My very best wishes ( talk) 18:48, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
WRT any possible claim that "no one died" see
[14] Suspicion Under Stalin
Rather seems to imply that Stalin was less than a Mister Rogers-sort. Many other accounts making any claim that "no one may have died" a tad laughable were it not so sad. Collect ( talk) 21:08, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
Dyukov has built his career as a pro-Soviet polemicist and darling of Russian state media whenever Russia needs to denounce the Baltics, to call occupation a lie, etc., etc. Oh, and let's not forget his farce of a film blaming the Poles for WWII. Nothing his name is associated with is reliable. VєсrumЬа ► TALK 02:46, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
just want to know how others would rate the reliability of this source -- say from 1-10
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Language_Monitor#Other_Analysis_and_Rankings
http://www.languagemonitor.com/fashion/fashion/
not sure of their methodology but site's pretty bad
personally i would never rely on a source of inadequacy like this but on wikipedia it looks like much is allowed -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Identifying_reliable_sources
one example of usage is on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milan#Fashion_and_design that is up for GA review. Waveclaira ( talk)
Could someone here not involved with the discussion verify if there are reliable sources backing up the use of the term "Gaza Holocaust" as it relates to this discussion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2012_September_5#September_5 ? -- 108.23.47.101 ( talk) 01:28, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
Jeanne boleyn would like to revisit the discussion
Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_115#Medieval_Lands_by_Charles_Cawley regarding the opinion that this Cawley, Charles (3 June 2011). "Earls of Kent {1352}-1408, Holand".
[http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/Intro.htm Medieval Lands]. Foundation for Medieval Genealogy. {{
cite book}}
: External link in
(
help) (
Contents) amateur website is not a reliable source.
Fifelfoo (
talk) 01:19, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
|title=
Seeing as most editors are amateurs and not academics with unlimited access to university libraries, etc., we are pretty much restricted to online sources. Medieval Lands is probably at the moment one of the few websites that does cite primary sources, and removing it as a reliable source pretty much debars me from further editing on historical biographies of which I've created more than 100. Thanks Wikipedia, I'm sure this decision is one of the most astute yet in the ongoing process to drive away established editors from the project. -- Jeanne Boleyn ( talk) 15:25, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
I do not think that the project is tainted by the use of Charles Cawley as a source, but usage of this source must be in the form of WP:SAYWHEREYOUREADIT. Charles Cawley in some of his biographical entries cites his sources, and those are often reliable sources. Although In some articles that I have seen, some of his speculation is mentioned, and in others used as as an attributed inline authority, (which he clearly is not) and I think all such usage should be removed.
I searched on http://fmg.ac which returned 100 of articles and have tagged all such usage unless the sources Cawley has used have also been cited ( WP:SAYWHEREYOUREADIT).
Yesterday I realised that there were also a number of articles which cite Cawley without including a link to his website (EG Marie, Duchess of Auvergne). There are no other citations in that article, and I have marked those Cawley citations as: [self-published source][better source needed]. I do not think that can be construed as damaging the project particularly as the focus in recent years has been quality and not quantity. I would suggest that improving citations in those articles I have marked will improve the project more than adding additional information to articles with Cawley as the sole source for that information.
Looking at the citations in Marie, Duchess of Auvergne (there are three but only two to specific Cawley pages). Capet and Bourbon, (the third does not include a page so it probably means refer to the previous that is Capet. Using Google search for Marie of Berry on the site:fmg.ac returns two pages containing "MARIE de Berry" Capet and Burgundy Duchy, Dukes The former has an entry MARIE de Berry (1370-Lyon Jun 1434, bur Priory of Souvigny). Using that entry how can we confidently says that she was born in 1370? The death is probably derived from the primary source cited (" footnote 798") but even that is not clearly stated. For the rest of the entry there is no other citation. Compare that with this footnote from Joscelin of Louvain. I don't think anyone would have a problem with using Cawley when he is used that way ( WP:SAYWHEREYOUREADIT).
I have also been through the articles that use "Marek, Miroslav.
"A listing of the House of Orléans".
Genealogy.EU. {{
cite web}}
: External link in
(
help)" as a cited source marking them in a similar way. The problem with that source is that Marek does not cite his sources.
|publisher=
I am currently going through citations to Darryl Lundy's The Peerage. Lundy usually cite his sources, but they frequently are not included in Wikpedia citations (see for example the article BLP article Pippa Middleton) There are also problem where Lundy is not cited and his source is cited, (See here and now) a breach of WP:SAYWHEREYOUREADIT -- The reason I could be confident that it was taken from Lundy's website is because when the editor copied Lundy's citation he or she left in Lundy's comment "Hereinafter cited as The Complete Peerage."
As I have been going through articles that cite Cawley and Marek, many of those articles also cite other genealogical cites such as:
Often the pages that use these four websites contain no notable biographical details and are nothing but genealogical entries (birth marriages children and deaths) of minor Continental European nobility of people for whom little notable historical details are available on the web (even in foreign languages because web transliteration is behind English sources), but there are reliable sources available for at least the genealogical information such as Europäische Stammtafeln). The advantage about similar British nobles is that, thanks to the availability of Victorian volumes on line, there are more reliable sources available and usually enough details on line to make a judgement if the person is historically significant enough to warrant a biographical article. A first useful step in deciding if these Continental European biographies should be kept is to mark the sources used as unreliable if they are unreliable. If no reliable sources are added to the articles after a reasonable period of time then they can be put up for AfD under not notable. Hopefully it will not come to this, and many of these articles will be improved over the coming months by adding biographical details about the subject from reliable sources.
Having said that I do realise that there is a real problem with historical bias. Often the only historical record we have for women who played a notable part in the societies in which they lived is only through their marriages and children as that is all that was recorded at the time. I think that is an issue that should be discussed on the talk page and at possible AfD's and weighed into the balance when discussing whether a biographical article on a woman should be included in Wikipedia.
One final though. Since the {{ Rayment}} templates were marked as unreliable, I have noticed that editors have started to replace the citations that use Rayment with more reliable sources. Hopefully marking theses other as unreliable will result in the same benefits to the project. -- PBS ( talk) 09:30, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
I would like to pick up on one point that Andrew made "OTOH, there is no such thing as an academic genealogist". Up to now professional genealogists can beset be seen as producing stud books for those in society who were willing to pay for such information. I suspect that social network analysis tools (such as the police use to analyse criminal networks via their phone usage) will be let loose on the genealogy and the subject will become much more prominent as an academic discipline because of the insights it will give into the possible reasons why certain families supported others politically for reasons that up to now have been overlooked (it will also throw up lots of possible incorrect associations that litter current genealogical compilations). The closest analogy I can think of is how genetic research has had, and is having, a profound effect on historians interpretations of poorly documented historical migrations. However this is speculation does not get us any further in this particular thread about the usage of Cawley as as a reliable source. -- PBS ( talk) 14:13, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
To me, this looks like an overreaction by Fifelfoo and PBS. Cawley is most certainly not a self-published source—he is hosted by the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy. They list his Medieval Lands as one of their "well-regarded" projects. Thus the concerns about WP:V are satisfactorily answered. The tagging should be reversed, saying that Cawley is a "self-published source" and that a "better source [is] needed". Binksternet ( talk) 15:01, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
Andrew, I disagree (no surprise there), the type of formatting proposals you are putting forward seem to be to for a specific layout (one that you use). Not all usage includes a general reference list and short citations, and for example if there are two Cawley inline citations in an article one which cites his sources (SAYWHEREYOUGOTIT) and the other does not the obvious place to put the warning is on the cite without the additional citation to a reliable source. If however there are a series of citations such as in Leonardo III Tocco to a number of different Cawley pages, it may be better simply to put the warnings onto the general entry in the References Section. I do not think you can draw a hard and fast rule, particularly when the format of citations can vary so much between articles. As for the the use of one-source headnote that is nothing directly to do with Cawley usage, but an editorial judgement about the usage of sources in general. -- PBS ( talk) 10:43, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
I didn't get any response to this the first time, so here goes again. Can VR-Zone be considered a reliable source? Specifically, I'm asking about the reliability of this article as a source for the following content at 16:10:
On the other hand, there has been criticism towards the lack of vertical screen real estate when compared to 16:10 displays of the same screen diagonal. For this reason, some consider 16:10 displays to be more suitable for productivity-oriented tasks, such as editing documents or spreadsheets and using design or engineering applications, which are usually designed for taller, rather than wider screens.
The site seems like a reliable tech news outlet, referenced by several other established news sites like Engadget, PC Mag, PC World and Tech Report, as well as a number of articles on Wikipedia. The author has written ca. 100 articles on VR-Zone, and has also contributed to several other news sites like PC & Tech Authority, HPCWire.com and The Inquirer (Google search because I couldn't find author profiles on theinquirer.net). Indrek ( talk) 11:51, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
Giorgio A. Tsoukalos is being used as a source for the death of the writer Alan F. Alford [20] where I've removed it twice, and also for the renewal of the tv series [[Ancient Aliens}]] [21]. I'm extremely dubious about the first in particular, although maybe I should have brought that to BLPN. Dougweller ( talk) 14:04, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
( edit conflict)Ok I guess, as long as it is attributed (as it is) so we aren't stating it as fact. The History Channel would be my preferred source. Thanks. Dougweller ( talk) 20:55, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
I'm editing the Stephen Strasburg article and wanted to know if his entry at www.biography.com was reliable for inclusion. -- Jprg1966 (talk) 21:00, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
Is this a reliable source? -- Dweller ( talk) 08:45, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
Isahitya written by admin Reviewed by Prof.G S Jolly written by admin and here is the editor and team
Studies in women writers in English edited by Mohit K.Ray and Rama Kundo, they write in preface and
All about book publishing Dr. Nandini's interview by GS Jolly (GSJ), deputy editor of AABP,and publication's editorial board
Thanks. Justice007 ( talk) 09:28, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
This apparently WP:SELFPUBLISHed web site is used to include certain juicy details in those articles, apparently because they are hard to source elsewhere, for example several passages supposedly from the judicial interrogation of Safarov, e.g. all those tagged in this edit. Opinion on the site's fitness for such purposes? Tijfo098 ( talk) 22:54, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
Ok, this has caused a bit of controversy. One of the hosts of this show was fired under mysterious circumstances, supposedly for misrepresenting his military career, leading to posts like this [30]. I'm not quite sure whether to trust this source or not. Is this a source that can be considered reliable? Ks0stm ( T• C• G• E) 19:31, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
The original discussion for this website I started is located here, but did not receive much discussion. The content I want to use it for is for the Scanlation article on potentially for related articles. I want to use the website's history of scanlation, information on the process, and interviews with scanlation groups and industry publishers and want to know if the website would be a qualify as a reliable source for that purpose. Thanks for the help. AngelFire3423 ( talk) 04:54, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
Is this source Gosselin, Denise Kindschi (2009). Heavy Hands: An Introduction to the Crime of Intimate and Family Violence (4th ed.). Prentice Hall. p. 13. ISBN 978-0136139034. which cites a Human Rights Watch study RS for this content "According to a study carried out by Human Rights Watch it is estimated that between 70 and 90 percent of women in Pakistan have suffered some form of abuse" Facts, not fiction ( talk) 12:36, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
<- I assume the Gosselin's source is HRW's "Crime or Custom? Violence Against Women in Pakistan" report from 1999 although I can't tell from Google books. The HRW reports states "Estimates of the percentage of women who experience spousal abuse alone range from 70 to upwards of 90 percent" on page 1 (and again on page 35) of the report. The sources for those figures are given in footnote 42 on page 35 of the report. Sean.hoyland - talk 16:22, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
In trying to find out if Joof, Alhaji Alieu Ebrima Cham. "Senegambia - The land of our heritage" is a reliable source, I discovered I can't even find it. It's used in several of our articles [34]. Thanks. Dougweller ( talk) 13:34, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
The inability to find references in a Web search engine to a third world published book is hardly convincing evidence that the latter doesn't exist. Here is a non-Wikipedia reference to "Gambia: Land of our Heritage" by Cham Joof. (According to our article, he is not normally referred to as Joof, but Cham Joof. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle would approve.) http://www.smcm.edu/gambia/documents/publications/gamble/Gamble%2044.pdf on page 9. It's listed as Banjul 1999. It also says "Many of the items listed are rarely to be found outside The Gambia." (surprise) and "In the present bibliography about 26% are items which I have not peronally [sic] seen, and are marked *" - this book is not marked*, so I would gather the author did, in fact, per(s)onally see it. -- GRuban ( talk) 17:06, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
This edit was removed for having an unreliable source for it. Is this an unreliable source for the subject matter? Thanks ツ Jenova 20 ( email) 08:15, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
Several users insist on removing the {Primary sources} tag from Brownie (Dungeons & Dragons). I am not really sure what the basis of their position is. All of the TSR/Wizards of the Coast publications are from the company that produces and owns the trademark for D&D and are therefore obviously primary sources. The other sources listed are:
1) something by Paizo Publishing, the owner of the Pathfinder game trademark - this source is used to verify that in a Pathfinder game sourcebook there is a critter called the "brownie". Hence the document is being used to verify that the document has the word "brownie" on it.
2) something by Necromancer Games which is used to verify that a critter called a brownie appears in the book published by Necromancer games. Hence the document is being used to verify that the document has the word "brownie" on it.
3) something by Avalanche Press which is used as proof that the Avalanche press book contains a critter called the brownie. Hence the document is being used to verify that the document has the word "brownie" on it.
The only potentially non-primary source is the White Dwarf magazine appearance. The publisher of White Dwarf had been the licensed publisher of D&D materials in the UK up until the year before this article appeared and so it is potentially a third party source. However, it would be a farsical claim to suggest that the two sentences cited to that source counter suggest in any way that the content of the article does not meet the criteria flagged as problematic with the tag: "This article relies on references to primary sources or sources affiliated with the subject". -- The Red Pen of Doom 18:36, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
We've had several discussions and AfD on Dungeons & Dragons that have been going nowhere. The main point of disagreement is the nature of sources used on articles about fictional D&D creatures like Adherer, are they primary/secondary, affiliated/independent ? I've come here to have the matter evaluated by fresh and uninvolved eyes.
To contextualize: Dungeons & Dragons is a tabletop Role-playing game, played using core rulebooks which are official manuals detailing storyline and gameplay mecanics, published by TSR/ Wizards of the Coast the creators and copyright holders of the Dungeons & Dragons franchise. These manuals or "sourcebooks"/"handbooks" , as they represent the game itself, are primary sources, I think we can all agree on that.
Now, there is disagreement whether other manuals used in D&D are primary/secondary, affilated/independent. There are two different types of manuals:
Thanks for helping us on this. We've had AfDs on D&D fictional creatures in the past and some on-going, including one last month Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Death watch beetle (Dungeons & Dragons) which outcome was the redirection of all articles nominated per consensus that the various manuals (both D&D extensions and other games), the only sources found, were primary/affiliated. Now that other AfDs have started, a user disatisfied with this outcome claims it was "not policy-based" and that "a lot of editors disagree", I think this is a good opportinuity to see which interpretation on sources is policy-compliant, and maybe to reach a wider consensus that won't be easily dismissed (note that the previous AfD had 21 participants, yet that didn't seem to be enough for some). Folken de Fanel ( talk) 22:46, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
Perhaps I am missing something, but to me the entire discussion here appears to assume that any primary source can never be a reliable source? That is not really true. For simple information, "the horse's mouth" is often the best source. There is no absolute ban upon using secondary sources on WP.-- Andrew Lancaster ( talk) 10:35, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
Recently User:Kurmaa claimed that " Lower Assam", coined by the Ahom people, is derogatory and should not be used on Wikipedia ( diff). Do the accompanying links ( [35], [36], [37]) show that the term "Lower Assam" is actually derogatory, or that it was coined by the Ahoms?
This argument was accepted by User:Bhaskarbhagawati and together they have gone on a mission moving "Lower Assam" to "Western Assam", and changing all "lower Assam" to "western Assam" in many Wikipedia pages. Before making large scale changes on Wikipedia, it is important to verify the claims.
A discussion on this topic is given here: Talk:Western_Assam#Move_proposal. The opposing view in summary:
These arguments have been ignored by both User:Kurmaa and User:Bhaskarbhagawati. I request WP:RSN to please check the sources and decide whether the claims made by User:Kurmaa is correct. Thanks.
Chaipau ( talk) 14:20, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
Re: Fine, John Van Antwerp (1994), in The Late Medieval Balkans: A Critical Survey from the Late Twelfth Century to the Ottoman Conquest (University of Michigan Press, ISBN 978-0-472-08260-5). Page 600 of this work is quoted in Siege_of_Shkodra in a sequence that makes the timeline chaotic and confusing. Fine seems to be well-regarded as an RS, but even the best make errors. The quote in the article creating the problem is:
In 1477 the Ottomans captured most of the territory of Zeta together with Žabljak and defeated the main army of Ivan Crnojević late in 1477 or early 1478.[11][citation needed] Then they concentrated their forces at Shkodra.[12][citation needed]
This order of events or battle sieges disagrees with Franz Babinger (whose treatment of the events is in much more detail than Fine's tertiary work Aleks Buda), and also disagrees with Kenneth Setton, Joseph von Hammer-Purgstall, Kristaq Prifti, Selami Pulaha, Oliver Jens Schmitt, Marin Barleti, 15th and 16th century Ottoman chronicles, etc., etc.
I can provide, if requested, all the works and page numbers for the above secondary sources.-- Rereward ( talk) 22:33, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
We do not have to use every source just because it is reliable, so this becomes a question of WP:NOTE (notability) and balance ( WP:DUE weight). Of course if this generally good author is suspected of making a typo or something we can simply avoid using him. On the other hand, if the author is well known in this subject area, we possibly need to have a mention of alternative theories?-- Andrew Lancaster ( talk) 11:40, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
can this dissertation be used as RS? [41]
It will be used on article Ahmad ibn Ibrihim al-Ghazi to state that the person may have been "harari" taken from page VII on dissertation. Baboon43 ( talk) 15:57, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
The citation to the article titled "So brave ... and so beautiful", The Scottish Sun, June 25 2008 was removed from the article Sophie Morgan with the simple edit summary "don't cite the sun". [44] The source was used to support the non-contentious statement "She has also appeared in the reality TV show ‘Beyond Boundaries'." In understanding that tabloids are problematical, and should never be used for gossipy or contentious information, is the source okay in this instance for non-contentious facts, or not? Schmidt, MICHAEL Q. 21:37, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
Hello everyone,
What source
I am looking to your opinion on whether the following source is reliable: Soundscapes. It is an online magazine that calls itself "journal on media culture", published by one Hans Durrer under ISSN 1567-7745. In particular, I wish to use it as source for the Beatles song analyses by musicologist Alan W. Pollack, which are published there (here: Notes on ...).
Where is it used
The source is already being used, e.g., in the featured article " Hey Jude", section Critical reception:
Where else do I want to use it
I want to use it in the " Paul McCartney" article, subsection Musicianship/Vocals, to add a new sentence:
Why do I think the source is reliable
I would argue that Pollack's work in general, as published by the source in question, has been referenced by at least two good quality sources:
According to WP:RS#Usage_by_other_sources, this would help corroborate Pollack's and the source's credibility, at least for the Pollack series. Since the claim is not very exceptional and I would present it as Pollack's opinion anyway, I suggest that the source is sufficiently reliable to support the claim. What do you think?
Very much looking forward to your thoughts, thanks for your answers! -- Georgepauljohnringo ( talk) 11:45, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
This query arises because I'm trying to improve the page Marie, Duchess of Auvergne. Like many other biographies of nobility etc., it has a section headed "Ancestry" that consists of a collapsed table using the Ahnentafel templates. It has been tagged with the uncited-section template. I need to know how to raise it to the desired standard so that I can remove the uncited-section tag.
I feel sure (see Talk:Marie, Duchess of Auvergne#Ancestry section) that there must be some guideline or discussion about sourcing these tables, and there must be at least one Ahnentafel somewhere that has been sourced to the desired standard, but, if these resources exist, I can't find them and the editor who placed the uncited-section tag hasn't been able to help me. So is there, somewhere, a pattern I can follow? Is there a consensus somewhere about how detailed the sourcing has to be? For example, is it necessary to footnote directly every name in every table? That would require an additional 30 footnote references on any page that has a complete Ahnentafel -- so I hope this wasn't the consensus, but I can face it :) Or, as I hope, is the reader expected to click each name and find sourcing on the linked page?
I can't quite see where else I am to ask this question, so I started here. Please gently guide me if there's a better place. And rew D alby 11:59, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
Should quotes from prominent people used to advertise or promote a book be taken as reliable? What about if they are on a promotional website for the book? (In this case Sex at Dawn) For example at : [45]
I think quotes like this are somewhat suspect because they are stripped of context, or are being produced primarily as a favour to the author or the publishing company. On the other hand, the book is being promoted by a real publishing house, so presumably they haven't completely fabricated the quotes. Is there a standard policy with regard to context-less promotional quotations?
In this case, could the praise from the various academics on the list be taken to constitute a certain level of academic approval of the book on an equivalent level with published book reviews? Peregrine981 ( talk) 09:07, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
Are biblical scholars who are professors generally reliable for discussion of biblical episodes in the Book of Acts, specifically for Paul the Apostle's trial in Corinth in Acts 18:1-18? Specific sources that date this to the years 50-51 (which is accepted as the majority view and can be used per WP:RS/AC in any case) are:
My view is that the subject of the Book of Acts is inherently a "biblical subject" and hence these professors of biblical studies published in these respectable sources would be WP:RS. And in fact hardly anyone else publishes on that - it is hard to find people outside the "field of biblical studies" who write about the Book of Acts and the trial of Paul.
Now, if the conclusions of these scholars about the dates 50-51 for the trial are accepted as WP:RS, are the methods they use for arriving at said conclusions presentable? I think so, for if the conclusion is considered acceptable (and the majority view supports it) the method each scholar uses to arrive there can be presented, and the reader informed of it, provided it is directly attributed to that scholar.
By the way, all of these 7 scholars by and large same type of things (with some variations, as expected of course) and support the same date range of 50-51 for the trial of Paul in Acts 18:1-18.
In any case, these professors who study and teach the subject of the trial of Apostle Paul in Acts 18:1-18 seem WP:RS to me on that subject. Ideas? Thanks. History2007 ( talk) 16:49, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
Just a note that there is a really long discussion on this here with the material above presented and discussed on the WP:RS talk page, as well as the related project page. History2007 ( talk) 05:35, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
I am currently online searching for an album review of an article I am working on. I came across this review and wanted to know if it is a reliable source, I then search to see if there are other articles who used this website as a source and found over 50 articles that have. Best, Jona talk to me 13:02, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
" Government Hooker" is currently a featured article candidate, and Wikipedian Penguin ( talk · contribs) has brought up concerns with two ( [49])( [50]) the sources used in the article. Both of these sources are from PopCrush. He has been unable to find any editorial qualifications or previous information for Amy Sciarretto, the individual responsible for writing the articles. I was originally reluctant to use a PopCrush source, as I am not fond of the website's format. It came to my attention that is was the only non-blogging site that directly verifies that the song was featured in a promotional video for the 2011 MTV Video Music Awards. In addition, her review can be seen in the "reception" section of the article. I used it because reviews for the song were very limited to begin with. It is also worth nothing that various good articles use PopCrush to verify some of its information.
I originally had a question about this, but no one voiced their opinion on the reliability of the website. Can I please get some feedback on the website? I don't mean to be snappy, but I'm getting a bit impatient. — DAP388 ( talk) 21:49, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
I'm quite sure that this diff using this Facebook entry by a nonexpert on the abortion topic is not a Reliable source. But the only other editor working on the article does not agree. (Note he has removed the other reference from an advocacy group website.) CarolMooreDC 01:20, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
Over on Talk:Athletics_at_the_1908_Summer_Olympics_–_Men's_marathon#The_first_mile, there is a bit of uncertainty as to whether a certain blog could be allowed as a reference in the context of debate over the length of the 1908 Olympic Marathon in the associated article.
According to WP:RS, it is suggested that though general blogs are not considered reliable, under certain circumstances blogs run by (say) professional news outlets whose contributors are professional journalists could be considered. The blog in question is actually the blog of the U.S.A Track and Field Road-Running Technical Council. It is moderated, and I would therefore think that posts appearing on it which originate from the professionals in the field (such as Mike Sandford, Pete Reigel and others) should be OK as citations. Hell, if you can't cite professional course-measurers, whom can you cite? :-) Any comments please? Steve Hosgood ( talk) 13:34, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 125 | ← | Archive 129 | Archive 130 | Archive 131 | Archive 132 | Archive 133 | → | Archive 135 |
Does anyone know whether Dr. David C.F. Wright and the bios on his site www.wrightmusic.net are reliable ? I've not heard of him. A number of his biographies are being used as sources. I stumbled across him while looking at the Reginald Smith Brindle article. The ext link used to link to one of his bios but that has apparently been removed from the site. The original Smith Brindle bio is available at www.wrightmusic.net here. It cites no sources, none of his articles cite sources, and the article seems rather personal. I'll also note that according to his own bio on his site here, Wright has exposed "the lies of Richard Dawkins.....the nonsense of evolution", which doesn't fill me with confidence. So, any thoughts on whether he qualifies as an RS at least for music bios (not the modern evolutionary synthesis) ? Sean.hoyland - talk 19:13, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
Hi. I would like to get a review of this report by the Swedish think-tank Expo (which also runs the Expo_(magazine)). In my opinion it seems to be a well-founded analysis of the counterjihad movement, but I'm worried that it's affiliation with a foundation that has a stated mission would make it a likely target for attack. benjamil talk/ edits 22:39, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
I'd like to user this same opportunity to raise the question on using Expo as a source at Sweden Democrats (a parliamentary political party in Sweden). That was discussed at the article's talk page here, but I don't agree with the persons who replied it that anyone questioning the neutrality of the source is "only a far-right extremeist". Expo runs an anti-Sweden Democrats campaign, quite provocatively with domain http://www.sverigedemokraterna.de/ To me it seems like Expo does some good human rights activism but it also has sections that are politically highly active, and atleast using it as source on a political party that they declare to oppose is a conflict of interests. So in my opinion, Expo can be used as a source certainly if the magazine is quoting an expert and thus the expert is the author, some of their projects too but specific political entitities like SD are out of the question because they're itself involved in it. -- Pudeo ' 16:55, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
At User:Toshio Yamaguchi/Wieferich prime I am preparing some content that I later want to include in the article Wieferich prime. At the section User:Toshio Yamaguchi/Wieferich prime#Connection with Sophie Germain primes I wrote a short passage about the connection of Wieferich primes with Sophie Germain primes. My question is, is the source I used, namely this paper on arXiv an acceptable source for the statements it cites? -- Toshio Yamaguchi ( tlk− ctb) 14:48, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
PS: If you reply, please place
==Talkback Reliable sources/Noticeboard==
{{Talkback|Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard|arXiv paper|ts=~~~~~}}
~~~~
on my talkpage. -- Toshio Yamaguchi ( tlk− ctb) 23:27, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
This is a bad penny that just keeps on turning up heads, so I thought I would try to put it to the community for an opinion. There are those who edit 'Yugoslavia in WW2' articles who question whether the subject book is a WP:RS on that general subject. The general theme of these objections is that Cohen was apparently a dentist (if he was, he may still be one, I don't know), and therefore it is not a. reliable, or b. he's an amateur and it could only be a tertiary source at best. Here is the Google Books link to the book in question [2]. The book is published by Texas A&M University Press, is part of a series on East European Studies edited by Stjepan Meštrović, and has a foreword by the late David Riesman, who was at that time the Henry Ford II Professor of Social Sciences Emeritus at Harvard University. Cohen uses footnotes from other secondary WP:RS on the subject such as Tomasevich, Milazzo, Roberts etc, but the work is extensively footnoted, and Riesman concludes inter alia 'this volume will be useful to scholars specialising in the history and current politics and policies in the Balkans and Serbia in particular.' On this occasion it just happens to be the Ante Pavelic article where it has been challenged, but it has been challenged on other 'Yugoslavia in WW2' articles before. I ask for a community view on this book as a WP:RS on the subject of 'Yugoslavia in WW2' generally, because I think that would suffice for the moment. If there is a more specific challenge to a specific part of the book for a specific article, I will of course bring it back here. Regards, Peacemaker67 ( talk) 05:09, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
The other related issue is that Cohen produces the same information about the Iron Cross in his 1997 book "The World War II and contemporary Chetniks: their historico-political continuity and implications for stability in the Balkans" p. 34, and I was wondering if you had access to a review of that book to help with an assessment of its reliability? Peacemaker67 ( talk) 11:26, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
Would this site which provides a detailed study on the the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline project [3] be acceptable to use as a reference? Thanks! Gandydancer ( talk) 14:14, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
Hey peoples. Does any know if this can be considered a reliable source for the article Nightswimming (Awake). Cheers, TBran dl ey 01:19, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
There are some "List of _______ episodes" articles that I would like to create at some point for various TV shows (most of them 1950s-60s era) but I anticipate that the only secondary sources I'll be able to find that actually list them will most likely be sites like TV.com. I know IMDb isn't a reliable source, but has the issue of TV.com every come up? Evanh2008 ( talk| contribs) 09:13, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
Non-Profit Data http://www.npdata.be , is used in several articles e.g. Belgium, Brussels, Demographics of Belgium, Islam in Belgium and Greek diaspora to support facts concerning the number or percentage of immigrants. It's in Dutch, which I don't understand too well, nor do I know if whatever sources the site uses are reliable. The site appears to contain almost only articles about crime and immigrants, which might indicate a right-wing bias, and at least some of the references were added by a now banned user with a strong anti-immigration POV. Sjö ( talk) 18:04, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
Is there a Wikipedia administrator who knows about psuedoscience or any project about psuodoscience I can talk to, because I am trying to keep collaboration and factual information with the Western astrology and Chinese zodiac signs. What I am trying to think is making two new articles to redirect where all the signs and information are in one article. An article for the list and facts of Western astrology and one for the Chinese zodiac, and other horoscopes. There are repeats of sabatage deletions from among IP and confirmed users who believe it is useless, when from earlier users it was stated as reliable as facts. In truth I am just stating the facts, the article doesn't mean it is true, it's only stating mythological details, such as a person born in the year of Rat, it is only stating folkore. I would really like to make two articles where I can redirect each sign and paste in to the articles for Western astrology and Chinese zodiac. Edit also on WP:Help desk.-- GoShow ( ...............) 18:18, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
See WP:POVFORK (and WP:NPA). AndyTheGrump ( talk) 20:03, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
On Talk:Golden Joystick Award, a user with a declared COI wants to include the statement that "It is organised by Future plc, publishers of magazines such as Computer and Video Games and Official Nintendo Magazine" replacing a previous statement about the organizer. After being asked for independent sources, this user has provided a link to the Professional Publishers Association ( http://www.ppa.co.uk/news/industry/future-publishing-announces-29th-annual-golden-joystick-awards/). This looks like a press release to me. Does the PPA have sufficient editorial independence and fact checking to accept it as a reliable source for the factual statement that this award is "organised by Future plc"? This ought not to be a highly controversial statement, I would think. The COI user has also provided links to Future's own sites. Advice would be welcome. DES (talk) 12:08, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
There's a bit of a dispute over whether weather2travel is a reliable source for sunshine data (and sea temperature data) in the Istanbul article. Here is the edit in context. (Note that the source gives sunshine data rounded to the nearest whole number and the article converts that to monthly data.) Any additional opinions on the reliability of this source would be appreciated. -- tariqabjotu 15:00, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
I would like to know:
During the civil war in Somalia, various bogus websites have gone up (some quite amusing) and gone down, so there's a bit of confusion here. Robert Young Pelton's Somalia Report recently discussed this issue and linked to somaligov.net as the official Somali government website: "The TFG site is officially here."
Various other bodies also cite somaligov.net as their official Somali federal government contact, including the Africa Mining Projects/ Afrimine and the defence and security specialist IHS Jane's in its Jane's International Defence Directory. Middayexpress ( talk) 13:56, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
There is reason to doubt some of the material on the Louis T McFadden page is from an un-biased source. The actual vigor with which that article attempts to place a label on McFadden is clearly fodder for the neutral point of view forum but the single source used to label McFadden is biased. The Mcfadden [1]page sites numerous articles form a single source which cites itself. The source is biased and the items in the article are placed there with prejudice and mailice. There is a reference from a 'reporter' named Drew Pearson [2]whose wikipedia page states in the opening sentence that Pearson often made claims with no proof - yet wikipedia considers Pearson's yellow press to be encyclopedic enough to appear in the biography of an individual who served as Chairman of the US House Committee on Banking and Currency for eleven years. I am not about to claim that McFadden may not have made some comments that offended individuals of the Jewish faith. I will remind you that in the 1930's and 20's discrimination against many of the Jewish faith was not uncommon, rather quite common. I will claim however that the article on McFadden is heavily biased by the single source of the JTA. It is impossible to look at the article and see the single self citing source attempting so vehemently to condemn McFadden with a label one cannot believe that this is not baised and malicious and done with prejudice to hang a certain label on McFadden and therefore marginalse his work. Having the single source of the JTA relentlessly quoted is done for a single reason. Only substantiating the biased claims of the JTA with JTA [3] citations fails on scholarly and news organizations points 142.68.89.59 ( talk) 14:57, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
I've found a scholarly source on this so it isn't as though we have to rely on contemporary news reports. See Jenkins, Philip (1997). Hoods and Shirts: The Extreme Right in Pennsylvania, 1925-1950. University of North Carolina Press. pp. 117–120. for an extensive section discussing his antisemitic career. Mangoe ( talk) 20:34, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
Does anyone know if any part of India-Forums can be considered a reliable source? This site describes itself as "an established television discussion forum" and "an online youth networking site", but there are also a lot of non-forum articles on the site. Many are simply reprints of production companies' press releases, or user-submitted content. The remainder I'm not sure about; it looks mostly like celebrity gossip to me, and I have no idea if there's any independent editorial oversight. We have a lot of links to this site, many (most?) of which have been added to various Indian TV articles by sockpuppets and anonymous IPs; it's also the source of a disturbing number of copy-and-paste copyright violations:
And the above are just the ones people have bothered to report with the full URL spelled out; there are many more where different link text is used, and for fresh cases most editors just revert on sight. Is there any reason this site shouldn't be on XLinkBot's revert list? — Psychonaut ( talk) 15:55, 31 August 2012 (UTC)
I am seeking to add a Political Position in the infobox of the Australian Greens. The party is the fourth largest in Australia. It holds 1 out of 150 seats in the Australian House of Representatives. The other seats are held by the Liberal Party of Australia, the Australian Labor Party, and the National Party of Australia. Each of these contains a political position. The Greens have various policies that would fit into the Left-wing politics category. These include gay marriage, a 40% pollution cut by 2020, voluntary euthanasia, opposition to the Iraq and Afghanistan war, abolition of the Monarchy of Australia, cuts in funding for private schools, free University education for all, free health and dental care for all, compulsury student unionism, abolition of private health insurance rebate, increase access to abortion, increased public housing, no mandatory detention of asylum seekers who arrive by boat, an end to the Pacific Solution, end the Northern Territory emergency response, increased multicultural programmes, gay adoption, establish intersex as a gender, increased restrictions on the media; particulary News Limited, increased social security, a stronger line on Israel-Palestine, increase overseas aid and increased rights for unions. These policies are all available on www.greens.org.au/policies. Some are available in the Wikipedia article.
The Wikipedia article on Left-wing politics notes 'In politics, the Left, left-wing, and leftists are people or views which generally support social change to create a more egalitarian society. They usually involve a concern for those in society who are disadvantaged relative to others and an assumption that there are unjustified inequalities'. This describes the Greens perfectly. The page also says 'the term (left-wing) was applied to a number of revolutionary movements...including green politics'. The Greens are clearly to the left of Labor, which is described as 'centre-left'.
I also note that other Green parties around the world, affiliated to Global Greens such as Green Party of England and Wales, Green Party of the United States, Scottish Greens, Wales Green Party and Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand are described on their articles as 'left-wing'. One particular user has reacted to my proposal quite vigorously. Others have expressed support, others opposition. I am having some trouble with my sources, with one user in particular questioning their reliability. The sources are: Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade: http://www.dfat.gov.au/facts/sys_gov.html
Act Now http://www.actnow.com.au/Opinion/Whats_the_difference_between_left_and_right_wing.aspx
Oz Parties http://ldp.org.au/quiz/ozparties.html
Sky News http://www.skynews.com.au/politics/article.aspx?id=785779
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/3812920.html
Article by Greens Senator Lee Rhiannon http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/4156564.html
http://overland.org.au/previous-issues/issue-199/feature-tad-tietze/
More reliable sources I think:
Encyclopedia of World Constititions Page 54 http://books.google.com.au/books?id=M3A-xgf1yM4C&pg=PR23&lpg=PR23&dq=encyclopedia+of+world+constitutions&source=bl&ots=YdnwQpZEuo&sig=nziEolioj7GZIhu_oiEwdpN3mJs&hl=en&sa=X&ei=e7FCUL2BCYyZiAeBlYHoCg&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=encyclopedia%20of%20world%20constitutions&f=false
Left Turn by Antony Loewenstein http://books.google.com.au/books?id=M3A-xgf1yM4C&pg=PR23&lpg=PR23&dq=encyclopedia+of+world+constitutions&source=bl&ots=YdnwQpZEuo&sig=nziEolioj7GZIhu_oiEwdpN3mJs&hl=en&sa=X&ei=e7FCUL2BCYyZiAeBlYHoCg&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=encyclopedia%20of%20world%20constitutions&f=false
Endame for the West in Afghanistan study http://books.google.com.au/books?id=YZCpm7n4JoIC&pg=PT24&lpg=PT24&dq=australian+greens+left-wing&source=bl&ots=yVzH-p--S4&sig=iYYk2CRmwGpXO-noLdbvkY0eMVw&hl=en&sa=X&ei=prFCUNKeE42XiQf4mIHQDQ&ved=0CEwQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=australian%20greens%20left-wing&f=false
The Death of Social Democracy by Ashley Lavelle http://books.google.com.au/books/about/The_Death_of_Social_Democracy.html?id=e-V-2PYJWVkC&redir_esc=y
Ideas and Actions in the Green Movement http://books.google.com.au/books?id=4zJcjo9fofsC&pg=PA82&lpg=PA82&dq=australian+greens+left-wing&source=bl&ots=F9dNFD_Ouj&sig=9lHoKPnVudRDGy9S0rJgSjpRDhc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=prFCUNKeE42XiQf4mIHQDQ&ved=0CGMQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=australian%20greens%20left-wing&f=false
Could some people comment on the reliability of these sources. That would be of much help. Welshboyau11 ( talk) 02:49, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
Here is another source: a Greens magazine http://wa.greens.org.au/system/files/private/GI%20webaugust2012.pdf where the party is described as 'Clearly left-wing'. Welshboyau11 ( talk) 04:35, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
This argument is not really about sources. The sources listed above, along with others, can clearly be used to support a section in the article that deals with the political position of the Australian Greens. However, this editor, who is now forum shopping, wants to just add the two words "left wing" to an infobox. Many editors think that a more nuanced approach should be taken and not add anything to the infobox. The political position of this political party is not simple. This is not an issue about sources, but about editorial judgement. -- Bduke (Discussion) 05:06, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
In the current established version of Richard Dawkins article there is a passage describing RD's view on religion being a virus. I am proposing in this edit to add Michael Shermer's criticism on this specific topic. On top of Shermer's original book, I found a secondary source that cites the very criticism by Shermer. The question is whether these two sources together bare enough reliability for the added content.-- 216.31.219.19 ( talk) 08:01, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
-- 216.31.219.19 ( talk) 13:30, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
-- 216.31.219.19 ( talk) 15:29, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
Then you are using it in it's capacity as a primary source for the quote. It does not help with weight though. IRWolfie- ( talk) 15:15, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
I would like a set of eyes to check the edits by a relatively inexperienced editor. They did a great thing by creating Cupio dissolvi, but are using unreliable sources (I'll get to the synthesis part later) to argue that this phrase is somehow identical to death drive. Such sources include this from Encyclopedia of Life Support Systems (caution: user has the tendency to cite archived versions that are almost illegible), and this forum for a translation and another here (which are needless and interpretative; I found plenty of reliable translations in the published sources (see the Wolfskeel, Balint, Screech references). This PDF, from some website containing an interview with Sudhir Kakar serves as a quick synthesis to help editor equate Christian mysticism with Freud's death drive. I would propose that Kakar (whose article is a bit of a puff piece) is not qualified as a scholar of Christian mysticism and that the equation is unwarranted if based on this interview.
By way of historical reference, this was the article as I found it. Note, for instance, the many "references" that are in fact Google searches. Drmies ( talk) 17:20, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
" Government Hooker" is currently a featured article candidate, and Wikipedian Penguin ( talk · contribs) has brought up concerns with two ( [4])( [5]) the sources used in the article. Both of these sources are from PopCrush. He has been unable to find any editorial qualifications or previous information for Amy Sciarretto, the individual responsible for writing the articles. I was originally reluctant to use a PopCrush source, as I am not fond of the website's format. It came to my attention that is was the only non-blogging site that directly verifies that the song was featured in a promotional video for the 2011 MTV Video Music Awards. In addition, her review can be seen in the "reception" section of the article. I used it because reviews for the song were very limited to begin with. It is also worth nothing that various good articles use PopCrush to verify some of its information. — DAP388 ( talk) 21:49, 04 September 2012 (UTC)
Is Filmtracks.com a reliable source? I would like to use it for the music section in Sense and Sensibility. It is solely run by Christian Clemmensen, who explains his background here. I came across it randomly; thoughts would be appreciated. Ruby 2010/ 2013 05:40, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
An editor is edit warring to remove an attributed quote to CSICOP saying it is not reliable. See [6]:
Can regulars please give their opinions on whether this statement is reliably sourced. IRWolfie- ( talk) 15:28, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
1) Can the website Sattigadu - http://www.sattigadu.com/ be used as reference for any article related to Indin Cinema. I feel it can definitely be. Just wanted confirmation. 2)It can be used for articles realted to various film stars from Indian film industry and thier films. 3)Example - http://www.sattigadu.com/happy-birthday-to-ajith-kumar.html - says that ajithkumar's father is Pallakkad Iyer - so this source can be used in Wiki article on Ajith Kumar. Onceshook1 ( talk) 05:43, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
This is a book about WW II by Russian revisionist historian Dyukov. The book was described here. According to preface of the book in Russian, the purpose of the book is to refute mainstream "Western" historians who are described as "enemies" conducting "Goebbels propaganda". ("Наши враги — и внешние, и внутренние — покушаются на самое святое — на народную память о Великой Отечественной войне. ... Вторя геббельсовской пропаганде, псевдоисторики внушают нам...Эта книга — отповедь клеветникам, опровержение самых грязных, самых лживых мифов о Великой Отечественной войне, распространяемых врагами России." Google translation: Our enemies - external or internal - encroach on the most sacred - on people's memory of the Great Patriotic War. ... Echoing the Goebbels propaganda, pseudo-historians inspire us ... This book - a rebuke to the slanderers, the refutation of the most sordid, the false myths about the Great Patriotic War, distributed by enemies of Russia.). There is currently a discussion here about using a chapter from this book in Soviet invasion of Manchuria. Does "The Great War Slandered" qualify as RS about WW II? My very best wishes ( talk) 20:04, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
Excuse the comparison but if Dyukov is seriously denying deaths during Stalin's population transfers, wouldn't that make him about as reliable as David Irving? Machinarium ( talk) 11:12, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
I find the "defending Western scholarship" to be a most remarkable claim here, indeed. The author appears to be in a "time warp" at best, and the artice, while his views may be cited as an extreme minority, I suppose, should give no more weight to his "interesting views" that it does to the views of others who deny that Stalin was anything less than a saint. And when we have strong reliable sources showing that a source has errors, that does not mean we perpetuate the errors as "fact" - the opinions are citable only as opinion, and shuld not be given in Wikipedia's voice as "fact." Cheers. Collect ( talk) 11:51, 3 September 2012 (UTC)
What publishers publish his book? - "Europe», «Regnum» «Eksmo." This also tells about something. «Regnum» is headed by Kolerov who served in the administration of the president, "Europe" - is Pawlowski and his center."
My very best wishes ( talk) 18:48, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
WRT any possible claim that "no one died" see
[14] Suspicion Under Stalin
Rather seems to imply that Stalin was less than a Mister Rogers-sort. Many other accounts making any claim that "no one may have died" a tad laughable were it not so sad. Collect ( talk) 21:08, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
Dyukov has built his career as a pro-Soviet polemicist and darling of Russian state media whenever Russia needs to denounce the Baltics, to call occupation a lie, etc., etc. Oh, and let's not forget his farce of a film blaming the Poles for WWII. Nothing his name is associated with is reliable. VєсrumЬа ► TALK 02:46, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
just want to know how others would rate the reliability of this source -- say from 1-10
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Language_Monitor#Other_Analysis_and_Rankings
http://www.languagemonitor.com/fashion/fashion/
not sure of their methodology but site's pretty bad
personally i would never rely on a source of inadequacy like this but on wikipedia it looks like much is allowed -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Identifying_reliable_sources
one example of usage is on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milan#Fashion_and_design that is up for GA review. Waveclaira ( talk)
Could someone here not involved with the discussion verify if there are reliable sources backing up the use of the term "Gaza Holocaust" as it relates to this discussion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2012_September_5#September_5 ? -- 108.23.47.101 ( talk) 01:28, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
Jeanne boleyn would like to revisit the discussion
Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard/Archive_115#Medieval_Lands_by_Charles_Cawley regarding the opinion that this Cawley, Charles (3 June 2011). "Earls of Kent {1352}-1408, Holand".
[http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/Intro.htm Medieval Lands]. Foundation for Medieval Genealogy. {{
cite book}}
: External link in
(
help) (
Contents) amateur website is not a reliable source.
Fifelfoo (
talk) 01:19, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
|title=
Seeing as most editors are amateurs and not academics with unlimited access to university libraries, etc., we are pretty much restricted to online sources. Medieval Lands is probably at the moment one of the few websites that does cite primary sources, and removing it as a reliable source pretty much debars me from further editing on historical biographies of which I've created more than 100. Thanks Wikipedia, I'm sure this decision is one of the most astute yet in the ongoing process to drive away established editors from the project. -- Jeanne Boleyn ( talk) 15:25, 27 August 2012 (UTC)
I do not think that the project is tainted by the use of Charles Cawley as a source, but usage of this source must be in the form of WP:SAYWHEREYOUREADIT. Charles Cawley in some of his biographical entries cites his sources, and those are often reliable sources. Although In some articles that I have seen, some of his speculation is mentioned, and in others used as as an attributed inline authority, (which he clearly is not) and I think all such usage should be removed.
I searched on http://fmg.ac which returned 100 of articles and have tagged all such usage unless the sources Cawley has used have also been cited ( WP:SAYWHEREYOUREADIT).
Yesterday I realised that there were also a number of articles which cite Cawley without including a link to his website (EG Marie, Duchess of Auvergne). There are no other citations in that article, and I have marked those Cawley citations as: [self-published source][better source needed]. I do not think that can be construed as damaging the project particularly as the focus in recent years has been quality and not quantity. I would suggest that improving citations in those articles I have marked will improve the project more than adding additional information to articles with Cawley as the sole source for that information.
Looking at the citations in Marie, Duchess of Auvergne (there are three but only two to specific Cawley pages). Capet and Bourbon, (the third does not include a page so it probably means refer to the previous that is Capet. Using Google search for Marie of Berry on the site:fmg.ac returns two pages containing "MARIE de Berry" Capet and Burgundy Duchy, Dukes The former has an entry MARIE de Berry (1370-Lyon Jun 1434, bur Priory of Souvigny). Using that entry how can we confidently says that she was born in 1370? The death is probably derived from the primary source cited (" footnote 798") but even that is not clearly stated. For the rest of the entry there is no other citation. Compare that with this footnote from Joscelin of Louvain. I don't think anyone would have a problem with using Cawley when he is used that way ( WP:SAYWHEREYOUREADIT).
I have also been through the articles that use "Marek, Miroslav.
"A listing of the House of Orléans".
Genealogy.EU. {{
cite web}}
: External link in
(
help)" as a cited source marking them in a similar way. The problem with that source is that Marek does not cite his sources.
|publisher=
I am currently going through citations to Darryl Lundy's The Peerage. Lundy usually cite his sources, but they frequently are not included in Wikpedia citations (see for example the article BLP article Pippa Middleton) There are also problem where Lundy is not cited and his source is cited, (See here and now) a breach of WP:SAYWHEREYOUREADIT -- The reason I could be confident that it was taken from Lundy's website is because when the editor copied Lundy's citation he or she left in Lundy's comment "Hereinafter cited as The Complete Peerage."
As I have been going through articles that cite Cawley and Marek, many of those articles also cite other genealogical cites such as:
Often the pages that use these four websites contain no notable biographical details and are nothing but genealogical entries (birth marriages children and deaths) of minor Continental European nobility of people for whom little notable historical details are available on the web (even in foreign languages because web transliteration is behind English sources), but there are reliable sources available for at least the genealogical information such as Europäische Stammtafeln). The advantage about similar British nobles is that, thanks to the availability of Victorian volumes on line, there are more reliable sources available and usually enough details on line to make a judgement if the person is historically significant enough to warrant a biographical article. A first useful step in deciding if these Continental European biographies should be kept is to mark the sources used as unreliable if they are unreliable. If no reliable sources are added to the articles after a reasonable period of time then they can be put up for AfD under not notable. Hopefully it will not come to this, and many of these articles will be improved over the coming months by adding biographical details about the subject from reliable sources.
Having said that I do realise that there is a real problem with historical bias. Often the only historical record we have for women who played a notable part in the societies in which they lived is only through their marriages and children as that is all that was recorded at the time. I think that is an issue that should be discussed on the talk page and at possible AfD's and weighed into the balance when discussing whether a biographical article on a woman should be included in Wikipedia.
One final though. Since the {{ Rayment}} templates were marked as unreliable, I have noticed that editors have started to replace the citations that use Rayment with more reliable sources. Hopefully marking theses other as unreliable will result in the same benefits to the project. -- PBS ( talk) 09:30, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
I would like to pick up on one point that Andrew made "OTOH, there is no such thing as an academic genealogist". Up to now professional genealogists can beset be seen as producing stud books for those in society who were willing to pay for such information. I suspect that social network analysis tools (such as the police use to analyse criminal networks via their phone usage) will be let loose on the genealogy and the subject will become much more prominent as an academic discipline because of the insights it will give into the possible reasons why certain families supported others politically for reasons that up to now have been overlooked (it will also throw up lots of possible incorrect associations that litter current genealogical compilations). The closest analogy I can think of is how genetic research has had, and is having, a profound effect on historians interpretations of poorly documented historical migrations. However this is speculation does not get us any further in this particular thread about the usage of Cawley as as a reliable source. -- PBS ( talk) 14:13, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
To me, this looks like an overreaction by Fifelfoo and PBS. Cawley is most certainly not a self-published source—he is hosted by the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy. They list his Medieval Lands as one of their "well-regarded" projects. Thus the concerns about WP:V are satisfactorily answered. The tagging should be reversed, saying that Cawley is a "self-published source" and that a "better source [is] needed". Binksternet ( talk) 15:01, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
Andrew, I disagree (no surprise there), the type of formatting proposals you are putting forward seem to be to for a specific layout (one that you use). Not all usage includes a general reference list and short citations, and for example if there are two Cawley inline citations in an article one which cites his sources (SAYWHEREYOUGOTIT) and the other does not the obvious place to put the warning is on the cite without the additional citation to a reliable source. If however there are a series of citations such as in Leonardo III Tocco to a number of different Cawley pages, it may be better simply to put the warnings onto the general entry in the References Section. I do not think you can draw a hard and fast rule, particularly when the format of citations can vary so much between articles. As for the the use of one-source headnote that is nothing directly to do with Cawley usage, but an editorial judgement about the usage of sources in general. -- PBS ( talk) 10:43, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
I didn't get any response to this the first time, so here goes again. Can VR-Zone be considered a reliable source? Specifically, I'm asking about the reliability of this article as a source for the following content at 16:10:
On the other hand, there has been criticism towards the lack of vertical screen real estate when compared to 16:10 displays of the same screen diagonal. For this reason, some consider 16:10 displays to be more suitable for productivity-oriented tasks, such as editing documents or spreadsheets and using design or engineering applications, which are usually designed for taller, rather than wider screens.
The site seems like a reliable tech news outlet, referenced by several other established news sites like Engadget, PC Mag, PC World and Tech Report, as well as a number of articles on Wikipedia. The author has written ca. 100 articles on VR-Zone, and has also contributed to several other news sites like PC & Tech Authority, HPCWire.com and The Inquirer (Google search because I couldn't find author profiles on theinquirer.net). Indrek ( talk) 11:51, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
Giorgio A. Tsoukalos is being used as a source for the death of the writer Alan F. Alford [20] where I've removed it twice, and also for the renewal of the tv series [[Ancient Aliens}]] [21]. I'm extremely dubious about the first in particular, although maybe I should have brought that to BLPN. Dougweller ( talk) 14:04, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
( edit conflict)Ok I guess, as long as it is attributed (as it is) so we aren't stating it as fact. The History Channel would be my preferred source. Thanks. Dougweller ( talk) 20:55, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
I'm editing the Stephen Strasburg article and wanted to know if his entry at www.biography.com was reliable for inclusion. -- Jprg1966 (talk) 21:00, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
Is this a reliable source? -- Dweller ( talk) 08:45, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
Isahitya written by admin Reviewed by Prof.G S Jolly written by admin and here is the editor and team
Studies in women writers in English edited by Mohit K.Ray and Rama Kundo, they write in preface and
All about book publishing Dr. Nandini's interview by GS Jolly (GSJ), deputy editor of AABP,and publication's editorial board
Thanks. Justice007 ( talk) 09:28, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
This apparently WP:SELFPUBLISHed web site is used to include certain juicy details in those articles, apparently because they are hard to source elsewhere, for example several passages supposedly from the judicial interrogation of Safarov, e.g. all those tagged in this edit. Opinion on the site's fitness for such purposes? Tijfo098 ( talk) 22:54, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
Ok, this has caused a bit of controversy. One of the hosts of this show was fired under mysterious circumstances, supposedly for misrepresenting his military career, leading to posts like this [30]. I'm not quite sure whether to trust this source or not. Is this a source that can be considered reliable? Ks0stm ( T• C• G• E) 19:31, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
The original discussion for this website I started is located here, but did not receive much discussion. The content I want to use it for is for the Scanlation article on potentially for related articles. I want to use the website's history of scanlation, information on the process, and interviews with scanlation groups and industry publishers and want to know if the website would be a qualify as a reliable source for that purpose. Thanks for the help. AngelFire3423 ( talk) 04:54, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
Is this source Gosselin, Denise Kindschi (2009). Heavy Hands: An Introduction to the Crime of Intimate and Family Violence (4th ed.). Prentice Hall. p. 13. ISBN 978-0136139034. which cites a Human Rights Watch study RS for this content "According to a study carried out by Human Rights Watch it is estimated that between 70 and 90 percent of women in Pakistan have suffered some form of abuse" Facts, not fiction ( talk) 12:36, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
<- I assume the Gosselin's source is HRW's "Crime or Custom? Violence Against Women in Pakistan" report from 1999 although I can't tell from Google books. The HRW reports states "Estimates of the percentage of women who experience spousal abuse alone range from 70 to upwards of 90 percent" on page 1 (and again on page 35) of the report. The sources for those figures are given in footnote 42 on page 35 of the report. Sean.hoyland - talk 16:22, 2 September 2012 (UTC)
In trying to find out if Joof, Alhaji Alieu Ebrima Cham. "Senegambia - The land of our heritage" is a reliable source, I discovered I can't even find it. It's used in several of our articles [34]. Thanks. Dougweller ( talk) 13:34, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
The inability to find references in a Web search engine to a third world published book is hardly convincing evidence that the latter doesn't exist. Here is a non-Wikipedia reference to "Gambia: Land of our Heritage" by Cham Joof. (According to our article, he is not normally referred to as Joof, but Cham Joof. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle would approve.) http://www.smcm.edu/gambia/documents/publications/gamble/Gamble%2044.pdf on page 9. It's listed as Banjul 1999. It also says "Many of the items listed are rarely to be found outside The Gambia." (surprise) and "In the present bibliography about 26% are items which I have not peronally [sic] seen, and are marked *" - this book is not marked*, so I would gather the author did, in fact, per(s)onally see it. -- GRuban ( talk) 17:06, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
This edit was removed for having an unreliable source for it. Is this an unreliable source for the subject matter? Thanks ツ Jenova 20 ( email) 08:15, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
Several users insist on removing the {Primary sources} tag from Brownie (Dungeons & Dragons). I am not really sure what the basis of their position is. All of the TSR/Wizards of the Coast publications are from the company that produces and owns the trademark for D&D and are therefore obviously primary sources. The other sources listed are:
1) something by Paizo Publishing, the owner of the Pathfinder game trademark - this source is used to verify that in a Pathfinder game sourcebook there is a critter called the "brownie". Hence the document is being used to verify that the document has the word "brownie" on it.
2) something by Necromancer Games which is used to verify that a critter called a brownie appears in the book published by Necromancer games. Hence the document is being used to verify that the document has the word "brownie" on it.
3) something by Avalanche Press which is used as proof that the Avalanche press book contains a critter called the brownie. Hence the document is being used to verify that the document has the word "brownie" on it.
The only potentially non-primary source is the White Dwarf magazine appearance. The publisher of White Dwarf had been the licensed publisher of D&D materials in the UK up until the year before this article appeared and so it is potentially a third party source. However, it would be a farsical claim to suggest that the two sentences cited to that source counter suggest in any way that the content of the article does not meet the criteria flagged as problematic with the tag: "This article relies on references to primary sources or sources affiliated with the subject". -- The Red Pen of Doom 18:36, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
We've had several discussions and AfD on Dungeons & Dragons that have been going nowhere. The main point of disagreement is the nature of sources used on articles about fictional D&D creatures like Adherer, are they primary/secondary, affiliated/independent ? I've come here to have the matter evaluated by fresh and uninvolved eyes.
To contextualize: Dungeons & Dragons is a tabletop Role-playing game, played using core rulebooks which are official manuals detailing storyline and gameplay mecanics, published by TSR/ Wizards of the Coast the creators and copyright holders of the Dungeons & Dragons franchise. These manuals or "sourcebooks"/"handbooks" , as they represent the game itself, are primary sources, I think we can all agree on that.
Now, there is disagreement whether other manuals used in D&D are primary/secondary, affilated/independent. There are two different types of manuals:
Thanks for helping us on this. We've had AfDs on D&D fictional creatures in the past and some on-going, including one last month Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Death watch beetle (Dungeons & Dragons) which outcome was the redirection of all articles nominated per consensus that the various manuals (both D&D extensions and other games), the only sources found, were primary/affiliated. Now that other AfDs have started, a user disatisfied with this outcome claims it was "not policy-based" and that "a lot of editors disagree", I think this is a good opportinuity to see which interpretation on sources is policy-compliant, and maybe to reach a wider consensus that won't be easily dismissed (note that the previous AfD had 21 participants, yet that didn't seem to be enough for some). Folken de Fanel ( talk) 22:46, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
Perhaps I am missing something, but to me the entire discussion here appears to assume that any primary source can never be a reliable source? That is not really true. For simple information, "the horse's mouth" is often the best source. There is no absolute ban upon using secondary sources on WP.-- Andrew Lancaster ( talk) 10:35, 7 September 2012 (UTC)
Recently User:Kurmaa claimed that " Lower Assam", coined by the Ahom people, is derogatory and should not be used on Wikipedia ( diff). Do the accompanying links ( [35], [36], [37]) show that the term "Lower Assam" is actually derogatory, or that it was coined by the Ahoms?
This argument was accepted by User:Bhaskarbhagawati and together they have gone on a mission moving "Lower Assam" to "Western Assam", and changing all "lower Assam" to "western Assam" in many Wikipedia pages. Before making large scale changes on Wikipedia, it is important to verify the claims.
A discussion on this topic is given here: Talk:Western_Assam#Move_proposal. The opposing view in summary:
These arguments have been ignored by both User:Kurmaa and User:Bhaskarbhagawati. I request WP:RSN to please check the sources and decide whether the claims made by User:Kurmaa is correct. Thanks.
Chaipau ( talk) 14:20, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
Re: Fine, John Van Antwerp (1994), in The Late Medieval Balkans: A Critical Survey from the Late Twelfth Century to the Ottoman Conquest (University of Michigan Press, ISBN 978-0-472-08260-5). Page 600 of this work is quoted in Siege_of_Shkodra in a sequence that makes the timeline chaotic and confusing. Fine seems to be well-regarded as an RS, but even the best make errors. The quote in the article creating the problem is:
In 1477 the Ottomans captured most of the territory of Zeta together with Žabljak and defeated the main army of Ivan Crnojević late in 1477 or early 1478.[11][citation needed] Then they concentrated their forces at Shkodra.[12][citation needed]
This order of events or battle sieges disagrees with Franz Babinger (whose treatment of the events is in much more detail than Fine's tertiary work Aleks Buda), and also disagrees with Kenneth Setton, Joseph von Hammer-Purgstall, Kristaq Prifti, Selami Pulaha, Oliver Jens Schmitt, Marin Barleti, 15th and 16th century Ottoman chronicles, etc., etc.
I can provide, if requested, all the works and page numbers for the above secondary sources.-- Rereward ( talk) 22:33, 4 September 2012 (UTC)
We do not have to use every source just because it is reliable, so this becomes a question of WP:NOTE (notability) and balance ( WP:DUE weight). Of course if this generally good author is suspected of making a typo or something we can simply avoid using him. On the other hand, if the author is well known in this subject area, we possibly need to have a mention of alternative theories?-- Andrew Lancaster ( talk) 11:40, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
can this dissertation be used as RS? [41]
It will be used on article Ahmad ibn Ibrihim al-Ghazi to state that the person may have been "harari" taken from page VII on dissertation. Baboon43 ( talk) 15:57, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
The citation to the article titled "So brave ... and so beautiful", The Scottish Sun, June 25 2008 was removed from the article Sophie Morgan with the simple edit summary "don't cite the sun". [44] The source was used to support the non-contentious statement "She has also appeared in the reality TV show ‘Beyond Boundaries'." In understanding that tabloids are problematical, and should never be used for gossipy or contentious information, is the source okay in this instance for non-contentious facts, or not? Schmidt, MICHAEL Q. 21:37, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
Hello everyone,
What source
I am looking to your opinion on whether the following source is reliable: Soundscapes. It is an online magazine that calls itself "journal on media culture", published by one Hans Durrer under ISSN 1567-7745. In particular, I wish to use it as source for the Beatles song analyses by musicologist Alan W. Pollack, which are published there (here: Notes on ...).
Where is it used
The source is already being used, e.g., in the featured article " Hey Jude", section Critical reception:
Where else do I want to use it
I want to use it in the " Paul McCartney" article, subsection Musicianship/Vocals, to add a new sentence:
Why do I think the source is reliable
I would argue that Pollack's work in general, as published by the source in question, has been referenced by at least two good quality sources:
According to WP:RS#Usage_by_other_sources, this would help corroborate Pollack's and the source's credibility, at least for the Pollack series. Since the claim is not very exceptional and I would present it as Pollack's opinion anyway, I suggest that the source is sufficiently reliable to support the claim. What do you think?
Very much looking forward to your thoughts, thanks for your answers! -- Georgepauljohnringo ( talk) 11:45, 5 September 2012 (UTC)
This query arises because I'm trying to improve the page Marie, Duchess of Auvergne. Like many other biographies of nobility etc., it has a section headed "Ancestry" that consists of a collapsed table using the Ahnentafel templates. It has been tagged with the uncited-section template. I need to know how to raise it to the desired standard so that I can remove the uncited-section tag.
I feel sure (see Talk:Marie, Duchess of Auvergne#Ancestry section) that there must be some guideline or discussion about sourcing these tables, and there must be at least one Ahnentafel somewhere that has been sourced to the desired standard, but, if these resources exist, I can't find them and the editor who placed the uncited-section tag hasn't been able to help me. So is there, somewhere, a pattern I can follow? Is there a consensus somewhere about how detailed the sourcing has to be? For example, is it necessary to footnote directly every name in every table? That would require an additional 30 footnote references on any page that has a complete Ahnentafel -- so I hope this wasn't the consensus, but I can face it :) Or, as I hope, is the reader expected to click each name and find sourcing on the linked page?
I can't quite see where else I am to ask this question, so I started here. Please gently guide me if there's a better place. And rew D alby 11:59, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
Should quotes from prominent people used to advertise or promote a book be taken as reliable? What about if they are on a promotional website for the book? (In this case Sex at Dawn) For example at : [45]
I think quotes like this are somewhat suspect because they are stripped of context, or are being produced primarily as a favour to the author or the publishing company. On the other hand, the book is being promoted by a real publishing house, so presumably they haven't completely fabricated the quotes. Is there a standard policy with regard to context-less promotional quotations?
In this case, could the praise from the various academics on the list be taken to constitute a certain level of academic approval of the book on an equivalent level with published book reviews? Peregrine981 ( talk) 09:07, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
Are biblical scholars who are professors generally reliable for discussion of biblical episodes in the Book of Acts, specifically for Paul the Apostle's trial in Corinth in Acts 18:1-18? Specific sources that date this to the years 50-51 (which is accepted as the majority view and can be used per WP:RS/AC in any case) are:
My view is that the subject of the Book of Acts is inherently a "biblical subject" and hence these professors of biblical studies published in these respectable sources would be WP:RS. And in fact hardly anyone else publishes on that - it is hard to find people outside the "field of biblical studies" who write about the Book of Acts and the trial of Paul.
Now, if the conclusions of these scholars about the dates 50-51 for the trial are accepted as WP:RS, are the methods they use for arriving at said conclusions presentable? I think so, for if the conclusion is considered acceptable (and the majority view supports it) the method each scholar uses to arrive there can be presented, and the reader informed of it, provided it is directly attributed to that scholar.
By the way, all of these 7 scholars by and large same type of things (with some variations, as expected of course) and support the same date range of 50-51 for the trial of Paul in Acts 18:1-18.
In any case, these professors who study and teach the subject of the trial of Apostle Paul in Acts 18:1-18 seem WP:RS to me on that subject. Ideas? Thanks. History2007 ( talk) 16:49, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
Just a note that there is a really long discussion on this here with the material above presented and discussed on the WP:RS talk page, as well as the related project page. History2007 ( talk) 05:35, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
I am currently online searching for an album review of an article I am working on. I came across this review and wanted to know if it is a reliable source, I then search to see if there are other articles who used this website as a source and found over 50 articles that have. Best, Jona talk to me 13:02, 9 September 2012 (UTC)
" Government Hooker" is currently a featured article candidate, and Wikipedian Penguin ( talk · contribs) has brought up concerns with two ( [49])( [50]) the sources used in the article. Both of these sources are from PopCrush. He has been unable to find any editorial qualifications or previous information for Amy Sciarretto, the individual responsible for writing the articles. I was originally reluctant to use a PopCrush source, as I am not fond of the website's format. It came to my attention that is was the only non-blogging site that directly verifies that the song was featured in a promotional video for the 2011 MTV Video Music Awards. In addition, her review can be seen in the "reception" section of the article. I used it because reviews for the song were very limited to begin with. It is also worth nothing that various good articles use PopCrush to verify some of its information.
I originally had a question about this, but no one voiced their opinion on the reliability of the website. Can I please get some feedback on the website? I don't mean to be snappy, but I'm getting a bit impatient. — DAP388 ( talk) 21:49, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
I'm quite sure that this diff using this Facebook entry by a nonexpert on the abortion topic is not a Reliable source. But the only other editor working on the article does not agree. (Note he has removed the other reference from an advocacy group website.) CarolMooreDC 01:20, 11 September 2012 (UTC)
Over on Talk:Athletics_at_the_1908_Summer_Olympics_–_Men's_marathon#The_first_mile, there is a bit of uncertainty as to whether a certain blog could be allowed as a reference in the context of debate over the length of the 1908 Olympic Marathon in the associated article.
According to WP:RS, it is suggested that though general blogs are not considered reliable, under certain circumstances blogs run by (say) professional news outlets whose contributors are professional journalists could be considered. The blog in question is actually the blog of the U.S.A Track and Field Road-Running Technical Council. It is moderated, and I would therefore think that posts appearing on it which originate from the professionals in the field (such as Mike Sandford, Pete Reigel and others) should be OK as citations. Hell, if you can't cite professional course-measurers, whom can you cite? :-) Any comments please? Steve Hosgood ( talk) 13:34, 11 September 2012 (UTC)