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Category:Seasons in Aruban football
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Nominator's rationale:WP:NARROWCAT. Merge/delete. The lone articles are already in the parent trees, so an additional merge is unnecessary. –
Aidan721 (
talk) 21:13, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Fairfield Stags rugby
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Category:Assassinated cartoonists
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Nominator's rationale: Per
WP:NARROWCAT. Very few cartoonists are assassinated aside from the Charlie Hebdo incident. The one article in this category was murdered during a robbery, not assassinated for being a cartoonist.
User:Namiba 16:33, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Support per nom
Mason (
talk) 02:22, 19 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Spree killers
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Nominator's rationale: Per discussion at the CfD for "fictional spree killers". I apologize if I did this incorrectly I have little experience with CfD (I intended to nominate all the subcategories by nationality, idk how to do that though)
Spree killers is a used term that I have no opposition to being used in articles, I do not dispute that. The problem is that it is almost entirely used subjectively as one of three things:
1 - a mass killer who committed the act in multiple places, which is not defining (it used to be considered defining, but no longer is), however people who technically qualify as this are often never called it
2 - serial killers without a proper cooldown period, which are still serial killers under the view of most criminologists nowadays
3 - synonym for mass murderer used to avoid the fact that mass killing has a secondary definition of "state sponsored killing of a lot of people" vs the act of one person
Sometimes spree killer is defined as being in multiple locations, and sometimes mass killer is excluded to one location, but just as often not. They're basically synonyms with different connotations.
TLDR: Subjectivecat with 95% overlap with mass murderer, similar to the active shooter incidents category which was deleted per discussion a while back. Some entries should be instead merged to serial killer depending on context (though the vast majority are mass murderers). It is a term used yes, but not separate enough from mass murder to be defining.
PARAKANYAA (
talk) 15:33, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Merge per nom. @
PARAKANYAA: you should also list and tag the subcategories, but otherwise your nomination is good.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 20:31, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Marcocapelle I don't know how to do that as part of one nomination. Do I tag them with the discussion template manually and then just add them here?
PARAKANYAA (
talk) 20:41, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
@
PARAKANYAA: I edited the tag such that it now can be copied to the subcategories while linking to this section. Unfortunately this is going to be just a matter of copy and paste.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 20:58, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Comment Spree killing and mass murder is different though. Not sure what the benefit is of merging all of these long-standing cats.
~WikiOriginal-9~ (
talk) 02:53, 19 February 2024 (UTC)]reply
@
WikiOriginal-9 The difference is subjective and extremely inconsistent between definitions which is not good for categories. The benefit is we don't have a bunch of categories that are 1) largely duplicative and 2) you can predict know who will be in what category, which is not true at the moment.
When do you count someone as having gone on a "spree"? Multiple locations? How far away does it have to be to count as multiple? Timespan - How much timespan between Mass, serial, and spree? There is no line. Are you just going by what the source calls em? Well too bad, they might just be called a mass murderer even though they hit a bunch of different locations (this happens constantly nowadays) or the source might be really old and just say they "ran amuck". Sometimes someone who only hit one location was described as a "spree killer"
This has been bothering me since the moment I started editing. There's a 'difference' between a lot of things that are categorized together, like for example, "Active Shooter Incidents" are a notable subtype of mass shooting, but it has such high overlap with mass shooting that it's pointless to sort by (and was deleted)
PARAKANYAA (
talk) 11:28, 19 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Emirati shipbuilders
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Nominator's rationale: No people are in this category, just the companies that build ships .Upmerge for now.
Mason (
talk) 14:33, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:17th-century Danish shipbuilders
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Nominator's rationale: Triple upmerge for now. There's only one page in here, which isn't helpful for navigation
Mason (
talk) 14:27, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:16th-century male musicians by nationality
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Nominator's rationale: "FIBA Women's EuroBasket" is the official name of that competition; "navigational boxes" are Wikipedia naming standard for such categories, see the men's version:
Category:FIBA EuroBasket navigational boxes.
Maiō T. (
talk) 17:08, 10 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Roman waystations in Bulgaria
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Nominator's rationale:merge, currently only one article in the category, this is not helpful for navigation.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 21:30, 10 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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Qwerfjkltalk 12:39, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Support per nom
Mason (
talk) 02:23, 19 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Heaven and hell novels
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Nominator's rationale: By "split" here I mean dual merge. Appears to be a
WP:ARBITRARYCAT (i.e. why not "heaven, hell and purgatory" novels or "Earth and heaven" novels, etc.) Novels that are set in both heaven and hell can simply be in both categories at once.
ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (
ᴛ) 23:13, 10 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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Qwerfjkltalk 12:39, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:19th-century Roman Catholic bishops in the Papal States
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Nominator's rationale: Overly narrow category of unclear necessity. Firstly, the Papal States were never exactly a country in the conventional sense, but more a ragtag collection of territories under the direct rule of the Pope -- so
Category:People from the Papal States doesn't have nearly as developed a scheme of subcategories as most real countries do, including virtually no scheme of "XX-century anything from the Papal States" categories for anybody besides the popes themselves. For instance, we don't have a
Category:19th-century bishops in the Papal States, or a
Category:Roman Catholic bishops in the Papal States, or even a
Category:19th-century people from the Papal States, to parent this at all. Secondly, and perhaps even more importantly, this was created in such a way that it was essentially broken right from the start: it's using one of those automated "Thing by country and century category header" templates that standardize the format of related categories and farm their category parentage off to a module, but said module is not coded to recognize the Papal States as a country at all for the purposes of generating "in the Papal States" categories, meaning it's only generating disabled or redlinked nonsense categories like
Category:19th-century Roman Catholic bishops in and
Category:19th century in that can't legitimately be created at all -- so I've had to suppress the template's autogenerated categories for being unfixable nonsense, and manually categorize it in parent categories that actually exist, which rather defeats the purpose of even using the template. So for both of those reasons, it's far from clear that an inherently broken category with very few logical parents would be needed for just two people at all.
Bearcat (
talk) 22:29, 1 February 2024 (UTC)reply
I am not against the category per se, the Papal States are generally recognized as a country in its own right until the unification of Italy. However, there are currently only an apostolic administrator and an auxilary bishop in this category, so I am not opposing either.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 22:42, 1 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Theoretically, all of the Popes who rulled the Papal States, could be added to the category(ies).
Governor Sheng (
talk) 19:22, 5 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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Qwerfjkltalk 11:30, 9 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete The conclusion of the above discussion seems to be that this category is redundant as it stands. Renaming as Mason suggests above would result in an incomplete category that it's unlikely anyone will bother to fill, and hence be misleading in a different way.
* Pppery *it has begun... 03:28, 14 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Modern Latin-language writers
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Support per nom
Mason (
talk) 03:54, 10 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Oppose. This category was nominated for deletion by the same nominator, and kept less than two months ago. Additionally, the rationale given appears to be erroneous: the category is presumably for modern writers in Latin, not writers of any era in neo-Latin. It doesn't matter what variety of Latin the author writes in, but whether the writing occurs in modern times, here defined by its contents as from the nineteenth century to the present.
P Aculeius (
talk) 11:47, 10 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Oppose per last time and
P Aculeius. "Modern" is used to modify different terms in the category and article redirect.
Johnbod (
talk) 14:33, 10 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete per nom. This is not a useful categorization. –
Aidan721 (
talk) 21:19, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Atheist writers
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That would require quite a bit of purging too. The current category rather contains writers who are atheists.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 07:09, 9 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Oppose. Although this page includes the phrase "People who write about atheism, the page for the subcategory
Category:English atheist writers contains the following: "English writers who are or were atheists." There seems to be a central confusion about whether the category should refer to the beliefs of the writers, or their subject matter. No doubt there would be considerable overlap between
Category:Atheist writers and
Category:Writers on Atheism as many of the writers whom editors think to categorize as atheists write about atheism, but the two are by no means interchangeable. I think the phrase "People who write about atheism" should be changed to "Writers who are or were atheists" as that reflects more natural and unambiguous language usage. For example, if the proposed change were made, how would an editor characterize a religious writer who wrote against atheism?
Category:Atheist writers would be misleading. And confusing, if combined with a religious category. —
scribblingwoman 18:38, 9 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Well, how do you suggest we resolve the contradiction? The intersection between being an atheist and being a writer isn't a defining one, whereas being a writer about athesim is.
Mason (
talk) 03:56, 10 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Oppose - that is a complete redefinition of the category which has no direct connection to the current content. It would be better to instead create/propose the desired category, and separately submit this one for deletion if it is warranted (I don't see how it would be - they can live side-by-side). Repurposing this category with a rename is the wrong way to handle it. edit: I've
corrected the categorization of this so that it reflects correctly that this is not intended as a subject area category. --
Netoholic@ 04:41, 10 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Addendum: There is a huge list of writers who were atheists here on Wikipedia:
List of atheist authors. The category could be better used, certainly. Work for a rainy day. —
scribblingwoman 03:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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Qwerfjkltalk 12:32, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Support (including purging), keeping the category as is results in a trivial intersection per
WP:EGRS, it should rather be converted to something that is really defining.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 21:06, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Support per nom. It is the topic of writing that is notable. The category in its current name is already better served by the list mentioned by Scibblingwoman. –
Aidan721 (
talk) 21:23, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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talk · he/him) 03:23, 9 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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Qwerfjkltalk 12:24, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
I'm not entirely convinced we need translators by writer, but if it's a valid category this appears like it would also be a valid category.
SportingFlyerT·C 19:56, 23 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Mesoamerican music
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Oppose I doubt that the category is useful, and would not mind deleting it. But
Category:Mesoamerican art is part of a category tree for
visual arts. Music is not a visual medium.
Dimadick (
talk) 13:32, 1 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Merge as nom.
Category:Mesoamerican art is defined as "the artistic expression documented for Pre-Columbian Mesoamerican cultures and civilizations" and already includes
Maya dance. The term of art is inherently ambiguous between visual arts stricto sensu and art at large.
Place Clichy (
talk) 15:41, 1 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Changed to Neutral. I don't feel strongly about that one, I'll defer to other editors.
Place Clichy (
talk) 17:34, 10 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Very Strong Oppose per
Dimadick. We have a very long-standing, useful and necessary convention that in category names "art" means
visual art.
Place Clichy, we absolutely should not screw that up, or there will be chaos, with hundreds if not thousands of nominations. Instead we should do as we do everywhere else, and set up
Category:Mesoamerican arts (or similar title, but with "arts"), with a visual art sub-cat, & the dance and music, plus no doubt other stuff.
Marcocapelle, with all your experience, I'm slightly amazed and horrified you didn't pick up on this.
Johnbod (
talk) 18:11, 5 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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talk · he/him) 00:11, 9 February 2024 (UTC)reply
That's a viable solution, but I still somewhat prefer setting up
Category:Arts in Mesoamerica (that is the convention), with art as a sub-cat, and dance, music and maybe fashion etc in it.
Category:Arts by period would be a parent. I must admit though that the "arts" tree gets a bit ragged dealing with older cultures. For example, there is no
Category:Arts in ancient Rome, though really there should be.
Johnbod (
talk) 15:00, 9 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Oppose I have moved
Maya music to the correct category, and it now has at least one member that belongs there. It's part of the established categorization scheme at
Category:Central American music and isn't extraneous. If anything it should be merged there if it does get merged.
ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (
ᴛ) 17:43, 9 February 2024 (UTC)reply
I like Johnbod's suggestion of a merge target/rename target.
Mason (
talk) 20:08, 9 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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Qwerfjkltalk 12:21, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Latin American people by descent
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Nominator's rationale: Unnecessary overlap and conflict with the traditional six-continent scheme. Please note that this category serves only as a container.
Yorkporter (
talk) 10:17, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Support per nom but the Latin American subcategories should be nominated too.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 20:47, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Sure, I tagged them right at the moment of the initial nomination but forgot to add them here. By the way, they have been empty for 6 days, so they will probably be deleted tomorrow by CSD C1 anyway.
Yorkporter (
talk) 06:58, 19 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Yorkporter, categories are not eligible for CSD C1 if they are being discussed in a CFD nomination so that won't happen. CFD takes priority over speedy deletion. LizRead!Talk! 18:32, 22 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Keep Latin America is its own region/culture and this category serves to help navigate articles related to the topic.
Dash9Z (
talk) 10:42, 22 February 2024 (UTC)reply
The only overarching Latin American article is
Asian Latin Americans. One article across six categories is too little.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 14:44, 22 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete. Categories named after Latin America are only useful when they bring readers to content that specifically deals with Latin American culture. If they are used as containers for national categories, as is the case here, they are in fact a nuisance because they overlap with the existing scheme of South/North American/Caribbean people by descent. Overlap means that content ends up being placed in duplicate locations, or one, or the other, or none at all, depending on the actions of uncoordinated good-faith editors.
Place Clichy (
talk) 20:13, 22 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Support per Place Clichy's arguments. --
Stisorder (
talk) 22:41, 23 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Military of Seoul
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Nominator's rationale: Just two pages. Both pages currently have other adequate categories I think; can probably just be deleted.
toobigtokale (
talk) 10:06, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete per nom. I can't see much scope for military by city anyway. Only military history by city is relevant, and that has a well-developed tree as such.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 21:12, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Jewish American filmmakers
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Nominator's rationale:delete, redundant category layer with only one subcategory. No need to merge there isn't
Category:Jewish screenwriters, presumably because of
WP:EGRS considerations.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 08:22, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Keep per
WP:EGRS. The other deletion discussions either point to EGRS, which says "Categorization by ethnicity, gender, religion, sexuality, or disability is permitted", or to each others, creating a circular loop of precedents ultimately based on nothing. The category should be populated rather than deleted.
Uriahheep228 (
talk) 16:22, 19 February 2024 (UTC)reply
The main point of
WP:EGRS is: "Do not create categories that intersect a particular topic (such as occupation, place of residence, or other such characteristics), with an ethnicity, gender, religion, sexual orientation, or disability, unless these characteristics are relevant to that topic.".
Marcocapelle (
talk) 19:07, 19 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Speedy delete per
WP:G4. How is this any different from the below
WP:EGRS/I discussions?
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Category:Burials in Ontario
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Nominator's rationale:containerize, we only categorize articles by notable burial places. Otherwise it is trivial and non-defining.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 08:01, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Support containerization of these and all of the Burials in LOCATION categories. I don't think this needs to be at CFD though.--
User:Namiba 16:34, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Miami Hurricanes track and field athletes
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Nominator's rationale: This is the naming convention for college sports teams. If the school fields a men's and women's team in a given sport, the category for members of that team includes "men's" or "women's." See, e.g.,
Category:Miami Hurricanes athletes.
Dennis C. Abrams (
talk) 05:48, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Rename for consistency. I applied the original name but always agree these categories should maintain consistency and support the renaming.
TheGables (
talk) 01:59, 21 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:BBC World Service foreign language
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Nominator's rationale: I'm not sure what to make of this category. Should we just add 'stations' to the end of the name? Is this just a collection of World Service stations, in which case 'foreign language' isn't really necessary.
Fuddle (
talk) 04:12, 9 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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talk · he/him) 01:31, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
If nobody else adds something here, then let's keep it at stations. It would be unnecessary to have this closed as no consensus.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 21:14, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Vikkstar123
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Nominator's rationale: Requesting deletion per
WP:OCEPON. There are a total of 3 related articles combined in two subcats which already interlink to one another. No need for the parent. StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me 02:45, 9 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Seasons in Aruban football
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Nominator's rationale:WP:NARROWCAT. Merge/delete. The lone articles are already in the parent trees, so an additional merge is unnecessary. –
Aidan721 (
talk) 21:13, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Fairfield Stags rugby
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Category:Assassinated cartoonists
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Nominator's rationale: Per
WP:NARROWCAT. Very few cartoonists are assassinated aside from the Charlie Hebdo incident. The one article in this category was murdered during a robbery, not assassinated for being a cartoonist.
User:Namiba 16:33, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Support per nom
Mason (
talk) 02:22, 19 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Spree killers
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Nominator's rationale: Per discussion at the CfD for "fictional spree killers". I apologize if I did this incorrectly I have little experience with CfD (I intended to nominate all the subcategories by nationality, idk how to do that though)
Spree killers is a used term that I have no opposition to being used in articles, I do not dispute that. The problem is that it is almost entirely used subjectively as one of three things:
1 - a mass killer who committed the act in multiple places, which is not defining (it used to be considered defining, but no longer is), however people who technically qualify as this are often never called it
2 - serial killers without a proper cooldown period, which are still serial killers under the view of most criminologists nowadays
3 - synonym for mass murderer used to avoid the fact that mass killing has a secondary definition of "state sponsored killing of a lot of people" vs the act of one person
Sometimes spree killer is defined as being in multiple locations, and sometimes mass killer is excluded to one location, but just as often not. They're basically synonyms with different connotations.
TLDR: Subjectivecat with 95% overlap with mass murderer, similar to the active shooter incidents category which was deleted per discussion a while back. Some entries should be instead merged to serial killer depending on context (though the vast majority are mass murderers). It is a term used yes, but not separate enough from mass murder to be defining.
PARAKANYAA (
talk) 15:33, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Merge per nom. @
PARAKANYAA: you should also list and tag the subcategories, but otherwise your nomination is good.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 20:31, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
@
Marcocapelle I don't know how to do that as part of one nomination. Do I tag them with the discussion template manually and then just add them here?
PARAKANYAA (
talk) 20:41, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
@
PARAKANYAA: I edited the tag such that it now can be copied to the subcategories while linking to this section. Unfortunately this is going to be just a matter of copy and paste.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 20:58, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Comment Spree killing and mass murder is different though. Not sure what the benefit is of merging all of these long-standing cats.
~WikiOriginal-9~ (
talk) 02:53, 19 February 2024 (UTC)]reply
@
WikiOriginal-9 The difference is subjective and extremely inconsistent between definitions which is not good for categories. The benefit is we don't have a bunch of categories that are 1) largely duplicative and 2) you can predict know who will be in what category, which is not true at the moment.
When do you count someone as having gone on a "spree"? Multiple locations? How far away does it have to be to count as multiple? Timespan - How much timespan between Mass, serial, and spree? There is no line. Are you just going by what the source calls em? Well too bad, they might just be called a mass murderer even though they hit a bunch of different locations (this happens constantly nowadays) or the source might be really old and just say they "ran amuck". Sometimes someone who only hit one location was described as a "spree killer"
This has been bothering me since the moment I started editing. There's a 'difference' between a lot of things that are categorized together, like for example, "Active Shooter Incidents" are a notable subtype of mass shooting, but it has such high overlap with mass shooting that it's pointless to sort by (and was deleted)
PARAKANYAA (
talk) 11:28, 19 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Emirati shipbuilders
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Nominator's rationale: No people are in this category, just the companies that build ships .Upmerge for now.
Mason (
talk) 14:33, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:17th-century Danish shipbuilders
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Nominator's rationale: Triple upmerge for now. There's only one page in here, which isn't helpful for navigation
Mason (
talk) 14:27, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:16th-century male musicians by nationality
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Nominator's rationale: "FIBA Women's EuroBasket" is the official name of that competition; "navigational boxes" are Wikipedia naming standard for such categories, see the men's version:
Category:FIBA EuroBasket navigational boxes.
Maiō T. (
talk) 17:08, 10 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Roman waystations in Bulgaria
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Nominator's rationale:merge, currently only one article in the category, this is not helpful for navigation.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 21:30, 10 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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Qwerfjkltalk 12:39, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Support per nom
Mason (
talk) 02:23, 19 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Heaven and hell novels
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Nominator's rationale: By "split" here I mean dual merge. Appears to be a
WP:ARBITRARYCAT (i.e. why not "heaven, hell and purgatory" novels or "Earth and heaven" novels, etc.) Novels that are set in both heaven and hell can simply be in both categories at once.
ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (
ᴛ) 23:13, 10 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:19th-century Roman Catholic bishops in the Papal States
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Nominator's rationale: Overly narrow category of unclear necessity. Firstly, the Papal States were never exactly a country in the conventional sense, but more a ragtag collection of territories under the direct rule of the Pope -- so
Category:People from the Papal States doesn't have nearly as developed a scheme of subcategories as most real countries do, including virtually no scheme of "XX-century anything from the Papal States" categories for anybody besides the popes themselves. For instance, we don't have a
Category:19th-century bishops in the Papal States, or a
Category:Roman Catholic bishops in the Papal States, or even a
Category:19th-century people from the Papal States, to parent this at all. Secondly, and perhaps even more importantly, this was created in such a way that it was essentially broken right from the start: it's using one of those automated "Thing by country and century category header" templates that standardize the format of related categories and farm their category parentage off to a module, but said module is not coded to recognize the Papal States as a country at all for the purposes of generating "in the Papal States" categories, meaning it's only generating disabled or redlinked nonsense categories like
Category:19th-century Roman Catholic bishops in and
Category:19th century in that can't legitimately be created at all -- so I've had to suppress the template's autogenerated categories for being unfixable nonsense, and manually categorize it in parent categories that actually exist, which rather defeats the purpose of even using the template. So for both of those reasons, it's far from clear that an inherently broken category with very few logical parents would be needed for just two people at all.
Bearcat (
talk) 22:29, 1 February 2024 (UTC)reply
I am not against the category per se, the Papal States are generally recognized as a country in its own right until the unification of Italy. However, there are currently only an apostolic administrator and an auxilary bishop in this category, so I am not opposing either.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 22:42, 1 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Theoretically, all of the Popes who rulled the Papal States, could be added to the category(ies).
Governor Sheng (
talk) 19:22, 5 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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Qwerfjkltalk 11:30, 9 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete The conclusion of the above discussion seems to be that this category is redundant as it stands. Renaming as Mason suggests above would result in an incomplete category that it's unlikely anyone will bother to fill, and hence be misleading in a different way.
* Pppery *it has begun... 03:28, 14 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Modern Latin-language writers
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Support per nom
Mason (
talk) 03:54, 10 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Oppose. This category was nominated for deletion by the same nominator, and kept less than two months ago. Additionally, the rationale given appears to be erroneous: the category is presumably for modern writers in Latin, not writers of any era in neo-Latin. It doesn't matter what variety of Latin the author writes in, but whether the writing occurs in modern times, here defined by its contents as from the nineteenth century to the present.
P Aculeius (
talk) 11:47, 10 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Oppose per last time and
P Aculeius. "Modern" is used to modify different terms in the category and article redirect.
Johnbod (
talk) 14:33, 10 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete per nom. This is not a useful categorization. –
Aidan721 (
talk) 21:19, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Atheist writers
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That would require quite a bit of purging too. The current category rather contains writers who are atheists.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 07:09, 9 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Oppose. Although this page includes the phrase "People who write about atheism, the page for the subcategory
Category:English atheist writers contains the following: "English writers who are or were atheists." There seems to be a central confusion about whether the category should refer to the beliefs of the writers, or their subject matter. No doubt there would be considerable overlap between
Category:Atheist writers and
Category:Writers on Atheism as many of the writers whom editors think to categorize as atheists write about atheism, but the two are by no means interchangeable. I think the phrase "People who write about atheism" should be changed to "Writers who are or were atheists" as that reflects more natural and unambiguous language usage. For example, if the proposed change were made, how would an editor characterize a religious writer who wrote against atheism?
Category:Atheist writers would be misleading. And confusing, if combined with a religious category. —
scribblingwoman 18:38, 9 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Well, how do you suggest we resolve the contradiction? The intersection between being an atheist and being a writer isn't a defining one, whereas being a writer about athesim is.
Mason (
talk) 03:56, 10 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Oppose - that is a complete redefinition of the category which has no direct connection to the current content. It would be better to instead create/propose the desired category, and separately submit this one for deletion if it is warranted (I don't see how it would be - they can live side-by-side). Repurposing this category with a rename is the wrong way to handle it. edit: I've
corrected the categorization of this so that it reflects correctly that this is not intended as a subject area category. --
Netoholic@ 04:41, 10 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Addendum: There is a huge list of writers who were atheists here on Wikipedia:
List of atheist authors. The category could be better used, certainly. Work for a rainy day. —
scribblingwoman 03:09, 13 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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Qwerfjkltalk 12:32, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Support (including purging), keeping the category as is results in a trivial intersection per
WP:EGRS, it should rather be converted to something that is really defining.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 21:06, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Support per nom. It is the topic of writing that is notable. The category in its current name is already better served by the list mentioned by Scibblingwoman. –
Aidan721 (
talk) 21:23, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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talk · he/him) 03:23, 9 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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Qwerfjkltalk 12:24, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
I'm not entirely convinced we need translators by writer, but if it's a valid category this appears like it would also be a valid category.
SportingFlyerT·C 19:56, 23 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Mesoamerican music
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Oppose I doubt that the category is useful, and would not mind deleting it. But
Category:Mesoamerican art is part of a category tree for
visual arts. Music is not a visual medium.
Dimadick (
talk) 13:32, 1 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Merge as nom.
Category:Mesoamerican art is defined as "the artistic expression documented for Pre-Columbian Mesoamerican cultures and civilizations" and already includes
Maya dance. The term of art is inherently ambiguous between visual arts stricto sensu and art at large.
Place Clichy (
talk) 15:41, 1 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Changed to Neutral. I don't feel strongly about that one, I'll defer to other editors.
Place Clichy (
talk) 17:34, 10 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Very Strong Oppose per
Dimadick. We have a very long-standing, useful and necessary convention that in category names "art" means
visual art.
Place Clichy, we absolutely should not screw that up, or there will be chaos, with hundreds if not thousands of nominations. Instead we should do as we do everywhere else, and set up
Category:Mesoamerican arts (or similar title, but with "arts"), with a visual art sub-cat, & the dance and music, plus no doubt other stuff.
Marcocapelle, with all your experience, I'm slightly amazed and horrified you didn't pick up on this.
Johnbod (
talk) 18:11, 5 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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talk · he/him) 00:11, 9 February 2024 (UTC)reply
That's a viable solution, but I still somewhat prefer setting up
Category:Arts in Mesoamerica (that is the convention), with art as a sub-cat, and dance, music and maybe fashion etc in it.
Category:Arts by period would be a parent. I must admit though that the "arts" tree gets a bit ragged dealing with older cultures. For example, there is no
Category:Arts in ancient Rome, though really there should be.
Johnbod (
talk) 15:00, 9 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Oppose I have moved
Maya music to the correct category, and it now has at least one member that belongs there. It's part of the established categorization scheme at
Category:Central American music and isn't extraneous. If anything it should be merged there if it does get merged.
ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (
ᴛ) 17:43, 9 February 2024 (UTC)reply
I like Johnbod's suggestion of a merge target/rename target.
Mason (
talk) 20:08, 9 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Latin American people by descent
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Nominator's rationale: Unnecessary overlap and conflict with the traditional six-continent scheme. Please note that this category serves only as a container.
Yorkporter (
talk) 10:17, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Support per nom but the Latin American subcategories should be nominated too.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 20:47, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Sure, I tagged them right at the moment of the initial nomination but forgot to add them here. By the way, they have been empty for 6 days, so they will probably be deleted tomorrow by CSD C1 anyway.
Yorkporter (
talk) 06:58, 19 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Yorkporter, categories are not eligible for CSD C1 if they are being discussed in a CFD nomination so that won't happen. CFD takes priority over speedy deletion. LizRead!Talk! 18:32, 22 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Keep Latin America is its own region/culture and this category serves to help navigate articles related to the topic.
Dash9Z (
talk) 10:42, 22 February 2024 (UTC)reply
The only overarching Latin American article is
Asian Latin Americans. One article across six categories is too little.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 14:44, 22 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete. Categories named after Latin America are only useful when they bring readers to content that specifically deals with Latin American culture. If they are used as containers for national categories, as is the case here, they are in fact a nuisance because they overlap with the existing scheme of South/North American/Caribbean people by descent. Overlap means that content ends up being placed in duplicate locations, or one, or the other, or none at all, depending on the actions of uncoordinated good-faith editors.
Place Clichy (
talk) 20:13, 22 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Support per Place Clichy's arguments. --
Stisorder (
talk) 22:41, 23 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Military of Seoul
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Nominator's rationale: Just two pages. Both pages currently have other adequate categories I think; can probably just be deleted.
toobigtokale (
talk) 10:06, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete per nom. I can't see much scope for military by city anyway. Only military history by city is relevant, and that has a well-developed tree as such.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 21:12, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Jewish American filmmakers
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Nominator's rationale:delete, redundant category layer with only one subcategory. No need to merge there isn't
Category:Jewish screenwriters, presumably because of
WP:EGRS considerations.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 08:22, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Keep per
WP:EGRS. The other deletion discussions either point to EGRS, which says "Categorization by ethnicity, gender, religion, sexuality, or disability is permitted", or to each others, creating a circular loop of precedents ultimately based on nothing. The category should be populated rather than deleted.
Uriahheep228 (
talk) 16:22, 19 February 2024 (UTC)reply
The main point of
WP:EGRS is: "Do not create categories that intersect a particular topic (such as occupation, place of residence, or other such characteristics), with an ethnicity, gender, religion, sexual orientation, or disability, unless these characteristics are relevant to that topic.".
Marcocapelle (
talk) 19:07, 19 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Speedy delete per
WP:G4. How is this any different from the below
WP:EGRS/I discussions?
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Category:Burials in Ontario
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Nominator's rationale:containerize, we only categorize articles by notable burial places. Otherwise it is trivial and non-defining.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 08:01, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Support containerization of these and all of the Burials in LOCATION categories. I don't think this needs to be at CFD though.--
User:Namiba 16:34, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:Miami Hurricanes track and field athletes
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Nominator's rationale: This is the naming convention for college sports teams. If the school fields a men's and women's team in a given sport, the category for members of that team includes "men's" or "women's." See, e.g.,
Category:Miami Hurricanes athletes.
Dennis C. Abrams (
talk) 05:48, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Rename for consistency. I applied the original name but always agree these categories should maintain consistency and support the renaming.
TheGables (
talk) 01:59, 21 February 2024 (UTC)reply
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Category:BBC World Service foreign language
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talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale: I'm not sure what to make of this category. Should we just add 'stations' to the end of the name? Is this just a collection of World Service stations, in which case 'foreign language' isn't really necessary.
Fuddle (
talk) 04:12, 9 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: Comments on rename target would be appreciated! Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (
talk · he/him) 01:31, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
If nobody else adds something here, then let's keep it at stations. It would be unnecessary to have this closed as no consensus.
Marcocapelle (
talk) 21:14, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Vikkstar123
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Nominator's rationale: Requesting deletion per
WP:OCEPON. There are a total of 3 related articles combined in two subcats which already interlink to one another. No need for the parent. StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me 02:45, 9 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, HouseBlaster (
talk · he/him) 01:30, 18 February 2024 (UTC)reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.