 | This discussion was subject to a
deletion review on 2024 March 26. For an explanation of the process, see Wikipedia:Deletion review. |
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Owen× ☎ 23:50, 25 March 2024 (UTC)
Shi Xing Mi
AfDs for this article:
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Shi Xing Mi ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Sources are basically self-sourced, no longer work with the domain being sold and excluded from Wayback ( [1], or newspapers with only a date and no other information. I've searched and can find very little from reliable sources, although his real name did come up a couple of times but just with mentions that he was doing something somewhere. Palta isn't notable and the source doesn't say he's on the board. Not menioned in Shaolin kung fu. Since its creation by "Shaolininfo" it's been edited mainly by Swiss IPs, the latest emailing me to ask why I deleted her edits and saying that "I am the assistant of Master Shi Xing Mi (Walter Gjergja) ". Doug Weller talk 15:11, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Martial arts, and Italy. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 19:18, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Buddhism and Switzerland. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 19:26, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
- Delete I'm not seeing significant independent coverage in reliable sources. Writing articles and teaching martial arts are insufficient to show WP notability. I will admit I made a weak keep vote in the original AfD discussion, but my knowledge of WP and its criteria have greatly changed in 13 years. Papaursa ( talk) 21:09, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hi, I've added a dozen additional sources ranging from international press (Forbes, New York Post, etc) to independent business sources (Crunchbase, The Org, etc) to large international companies (Palta Group, Zing AI Coach, etc) to independent official Shaolin Organisation (SEA, Culture Centers, etc).
- I am a student of Master Shi Xing Mi and as I work in PR I help with some of his events; he has hundreds of independent sources and is by far the most famous and published non-Chinese Shaolin Master globally. 178.197.176.161 ( talk) 14:16, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
— 178.197.176.161 ( talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
- You have also removed the AfD tag twice
[2]
[3] and that needs to stop. Removing the AfD tag won't end the AfD itself.
ThaddeusSholto (
talk) 14:18, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Sorry, I thought that having added such a long list of independent sources, the notice no longer applied as it was indicating insufficient independent sources. My apologies. I trust now the article is correctly and amply sourced and hope you will be able to delete the notice.
178.197.176.161 (
talk) 14:21, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- You shouldn't be editing the article at all. Are you the editor who emailed me? Looks like you are as the email said among other things " Kate, I am the assistant of Master Shi Xing Mi (Walter Gjergja) and during the weekend I edited his page, but I noticed you reversed all edits indicating unsuitable citations.I cited and liked articles in Forbes and in CBS news, both clearly independent sources, as well as the appropriate Page within the Palta and Zing corporate websites"I know you've also used the IP address 178.197.185.16 as that added the Forbes source. One huge problem with this article is that it has been heavily edited by IP addresses from people clearly involved in some way with him.The New York Post is not considered a reliable source, nor are Forbes contributors.
Doug Weller
talk 15:58, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hi, I just tried to help by providing additional sources.
- If international media publications, institutions, and companies are not reliable sources, what are?
- Frankly I looked at similar entries to understand better and they usually have a couple of websites including, nothing more (for example Shi De Yang, Shi Xing Mi’s own Master), so it would seem to me that 25 references ranging from Shaolin organizations to international companies to global press would be more than ample.
- Just trying to help my Master to have a correct Wikipedia entry. 178.197.176.73 ( talk) 06:39, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
- You shouldn't be editing the article at all. Are you the editor who emailed me? Looks like you are as the email said among other things " Kate, I am the assistant of Master Shi Xing Mi (Walter Gjergja) and during the weekend I edited his page, but I noticed you reversed all edits indicating unsuitable citations.I cited and liked articles in Forbes and in CBS news, both clearly independent sources, as well as the appropriate Page within the Palta and Zing corporate websites"I know you've also used the IP address 178.197.185.16 as that added the Forbes source. One huge problem with this article is that it has been heavily edited by IP addresses from people clearly involved in some way with him.The New York Post is not considered a reliable source, nor are Forbes contributors.
Doug Weller
talk 15:58, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Sorry, I thought that having added such a long list of independent sources, the notice no longer applied as it was indicating insufficient independent sources. My apologies. I trust now the article is correctly and amply sourced and hope you will be able to delete the notice.
178.197.176.161 (
talk) 14:21, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- You have also removed the AfD tag twice
[2]
[3] and that needs to stop. Removing the AfD tag won't end the AfD itself.
ThaddeusSholto (
talk) 14:18, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
— 178.197.176.73 ( talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
- Comment A lot of sources have been added, but they're not really independent sources about him. Interviews, postings from companies he works for or organizations he founded, and ads for seminars he's running do not qualify as significant independent coverage about him. Instead of inundating the article with these types of sources, I'd like to see WP:THREE used to show us the best examples of coverage that would meet WP:GNG or WP:ANYBIO. Papaursa ( talk) 19:32, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 21:36, 18 March 2024 (UTC)- The sources now include independent business databases (Crunchbase, The Org, etc) official Shaolin institutions (Shaolin Europe Association, various Culture Centers, etc) large international companies (Palta Group, Zing AI Coach, etc) and numerous press articles from the USA and Europe spanning two decades.
- As there are hundreds of sources about Master Shi Xing Mi in Google, many others of course can be added if necessary or if more pertinent.
- I didn’t understand the indication above that mentions by companies he works for are not suitable sources: to substantiate that someone has an important role in company X, isn’t company X officially indicating such role on their website the best possible confirmation? Those are large reputable companies with hundreds of employees.
- Happy to help further of course, however to me seems already overloaded with sources. 178.197.185.240 ( talk) 22:03, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
— 178.197.185.240 ( talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
- 178.197.185.240, it's the quantity of the sources that matter. And you should probably review WP:RS as business databases are not considered reliable sources. Often all of the content has been submitted by the article subject so it is not verified or independent. Liz Read! Talk! 08:09, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: Non-RS and some PROMO for good measure. This is about all there is
[4], which is a RS from Pakistan, see [
/info/en/?search=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Pakistan/Pakistani_sources] I don't see enough for an article.
Oaktree b (
talk) 23:19, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
- I just picked some recent articles which appeared when I searched in Google, he has hundreds of articles from all kinds of widespread newspapers, magazines, educational publications, etc spanning decades. The official shaolin associations and the large companies seemed the best sources to me, but I've added the press links as it was indicated insufficient sources. 212.31.113.3 ( talk) 14:22, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
- I've just done a quick search and in Google there are hundreds of articles, from Forbes, New York Post, Men's Health, Frankfurter Allgemaine, For Men, Outside Magazine, The Mirror, TedX, Corriere della Sera, etc etc, so I'm not sure why you'd highlight some Pakistani newspaper from dozens of international publications. 212.174.75.74 ( talk) 14:45, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
— 212.31.113.3 ( talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. Papaursa ( talk) 18:37, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
| This discussion was subject to a
deletion review on 2024 March 26. For an explanation of the process, see Wikipedia:Deletion review. |
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Owen× ☎ 23:50, 25 March 2024 (UTC)
Shi Xing Mi
AfDs for this article:
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Shi Xing Mi ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Sources are basically self-sourced, no longer work with the domain being sold and excluded from Wayback ( [1], or newspapers with only a date and no other information. I've searched and can find very little from reliable sources, although his real name did come up a couple of times but just with mentions that he was doing something somewhere. Palta isn't notable and the source doesn't say he's on the board. Not menioned in Shaolin kung fu. Since its creation by "Shaolininfo" it's been edited mainly by Swiss IPs, the latest emailing me to ask why I deleted her edits and saying that "I am the assistant of Master Shi Xing Mi (Walter Gjergja) ". Doug Weller talk 15:11, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Martial arts, and Italy. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 19:18, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Buddhism and Switzerland. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 19:26, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
- Delete I'm not seeing significant independent coverage in reliable sources. Writing articles and teaching martial arts are insufficient to show WP notability. I will admit I made a weak keep vote in the original AfD discussion, but my knowledge of WP and its criteria have greatly changed in 13 years. Papaursa ( talk) 21:09, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hi, I've added a dozen additional sources ranging from international press (Forbes, New York Post, etc) to independent business sources (Crunchbase, The Org, etc) to large international companies (Palta Group, Zing AI Coach, etc) to independent official Shaolin Organisation (SEA, Culture Centers, etc).
- I am a student of Master Shi Xing Mi and as I work in PR I help with some of his events; he has hundreds of independent sources and is by far the most famous and published non-Chinese Shaolin Master globally. 178.197.176.161 ( talk) 14:16, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
— 178.197.176.161 ( talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
- You have also removed the AfD tag twice
[2]
[3] and that needs to stop. Removing the AfD tag won't end the AfD itself.
ThaddeusSholto (
talk) 14:18, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Sorry, I thought that having added such a long list of independent sources, the notice no longer applied as it was indicating insufficient independent sources. My apologies. I trust now the article is correctly and amply sourced and hope you will be able to delete the notice.
178.197.176.161 (
talk) 14:21, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- You shouldn't be editing the article at all. Are you the editor who emailed me? Looks like you are as the email said among other things " Kate, I am the assistant of Master Shi Xing Mi (Walter Gjergja) and during the weekend I edited his page, but I noticed you reversed all edits indicating unsuitable citations.I cited and liked articles in Forbes and in CBS news, both clearly independent sources, as well as the appropriate Page within the Palta and Zing corporate websites"I know you've also used the IP address 178.197.185.16 as that added the Forbes source. One huge problem with this article is that it has been heavily edited by IP addresses from people clearly involved in some way with him.The New York Post is not considered a reliable source, nor are Forbes contributors.
Doug Weller
talk 15:58, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Hi, I just tried to help by providing additional sources.
- If international media publications, institutions, and companies are not reliable sources, what are?
- Frankly I looked at similar entries to understand better and they usually have a couple of websites including, nothing more (for example Shi De Yang, Shi Xing Mi’s own Master), so it would seem to me that 25 references ranging from Shaolin organizations to international companies to global press would be more than ample.
- Just trying to help my Master to have a correct Wikipedia entry. 178.197.176.73 ( talk) 06:39, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
- You shouldn't be editing the article at all. Are you the editor who emailed me? Looks like you are as the email said among other things " Kate, I am the assistant of Master Shi Xing Mi (Walter Gjergja) and during the weekend I edited his page, but I noticed you reversed all edits indicating unsuitable citations.I cited and liked articles in Forbes and in CBS news, both clearly independent sources, as well as the appropriate Page within the Palta and Zing corporate websites"I know you've also used the IP address 178.197.185.16 as that added the Forbes source. One huge problem with this article is that it has been heavily edited by IP addresses from people clearly involved in some way with him.The New York Post is not considered a reliable source, nor are Forbes contributors.
Doug Weller
talk 15:58, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- Sorry, I thought that having added such a long list of independent sources, the notice no longer applied as it was indicating insufficient independent sources. My apologies. I trust now the article is correctly and amply sourced and hope you will be able to delete the notice.
178.197.176.161 (
talk) 14:21, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
- You have also removed the AfD tag twice
[2]
[3] and that needs to stop. Removing the AfD tag won't end the AfD itself.
ThaddeusSholto (
talk) 14:18, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
— 178.197.176.73 ( talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
- Comment A lot of sources have been added, but they're not really independent sources about him. Interviews, postings from companies he works for or organizations he founded, and ads for seminars he's running do not qualify as significant independent coverage about him. Instead of inundating the article with these types of sources, I'd like to see WP:THREE used to show us the best examples of coverage that would meet WP:GNG or WP:ANYBIO. Papaursa ( talk) 19:32, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 21:36, 18 March 2024 (UTC)- The sources now include independent business databases (Crunchbase, The Org, etc) official Shaolin institutions (Shaolin Europe Association, various Culture Centers, etc) large international companies (Palta Group, Zing AI Coach, etc) and numerous press articles from the USA and Europe spanning two decades.
- As there are hundreds of sources about Master Shi Xing Mi in Google, many others of course can be added if necessary or if more pertinent.
- I didn’t understand the indication above that mentions by companies he works for are not suitable sources: to substantiate that someone has an important role in company X, isn’t company X officially indicating such role on their website the best possible confirmation? Those are large reputable companies with hundreds of employees.
- Happy to help further of course, however to me seems already overloaded with sources. 178.197.185.240 ( talk) 22:03, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
— 178.197.185.240 ( talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
- 178.197.185.240, it's the quantity of the sources that matter. And you should probably review WP:RS as business databases are not considered reliable sources. Often all of the content has been submitted by the article subject so it is not verified or independent. Liz Read! Talk! 08:09, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
- Delete: Non-RS and some PROMO for good measure. This is about all there is
[4], which is a RS from Pakistan, see [
/info/en/?search=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Pakistan/Pakistani_sources] I don't see enough for an article.
Oaktree b (
talk) 23:19, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
- I just picked some recent articles which appeared when I searched in Google, he has hundreds of articles from all kinds of widespread newspapers, magazines, educational publications, etc spanning decades. The official shaolin associations and the large companies seemed the best sources to me, but I've added the press links as it was indicated insufficient sources. 212.31.113.3 ( talk) 14:22, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
- I've just done a quick search and in Google there are hundreds of articles, from Forbes, New York Post, Men's Health, Frankfurter Allgemaine, For Men, Outside Magazine, The Mirror, TedX, Corriere della Sera, etc etc, so I'm not sure why you'd highlight some Pakistani newspaper from dozens of international publications. 212.174.75.74 ( talk) 14:45, 23 March 2024 (UTC)
— 212.31.113.3 ( talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. Papaursa ( talk) 18:37, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.