The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was draftify. Consensus exists not to retain the article at this time in mainspace, and there is a) some support for draftication over delete, b) comments from delete !voters which indicate their acceptance of draftication as an alternative, and c) no consensus opposing draftification as a valid
AtD. Hence, draftify it is.
Daniel (
talk) 03:56, 28 April 2024 (UTC)reply
I see this article as
WP:TOOSOON, as I can only find substantive coverage from the Carese Courier (three articles) and a few Spanish-language sites about him choosing Mexico over the United States. He is 15 years old, has never played a professional match, and only represents Mexico at the under-15 level. I think this article should be draftified, but I understand if the vote is to keep it. I'm curious what consensus will be on this.
Anwegmann (
talk) 22:03, 13 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Note: This discussion has been included in
WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions.
Anwegmann (
talk) 22:11, 13 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me.
GiantSnowman 10:45, 14 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Keep - @
GiantSnowman:, I found
[1],
[2], and
[3] among many more Spanish and English sources. Young player with ongoing pro and international career (already signed pro contractw ith senior
Major League Soccer SJ Earthquakes with many sources already. Should be a clear keep if not a draftify at the very worst. Thanks,
Das osmnezz (
talk) 22:00, 14 April 2024 (UTC)reply
As the nom, I'm a bit torn here, as Cowell has never played a pro game and his international career is at the under-15 level. As such, he is not remotely notable as a footballer. I wonder if his current fame, and thus the focus on him, is entirely the result of his brother's success at Chivas and with the United States senior team. I ask myself: Would Chance Cowell be acknowledged at all if his brother wasn't Cade Cowell? And I think the answer is "No, he wouldn't." I think a drafitify is the most appropriate move here, but I nominated the article because I think there's is a fruitful discussion to have.
Anwegmann (
talk) 23:59, 14 April 2024 (UTC)reply
He has evidently performed well enough for his youth teams to receive a senior professional San Jose Earthquakes contract at the age of fifteen... Thanks,
Das osmnezz (
talk) 00:18, 15 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Sure, but that means nothing until he appears for the team. What I'm saying is that this is an example of
WP:TOOSOON—the player clearly shows potential of being notable in his own right, and may become independently notable in the future, but as of right now, he's not notable enough to deserve his own article based on three caps for an under-15 national team two years ago and a professional contract, but no appearances, for an MLS club. Almost every source of any substance is predicated on him being Cade Cowell's brother. It's not a wasted article, and your work in creating it is justified, generally. But it needs to be draftified until he can "stand on his own," as it were.
Anwegmann (
talk) 00:29, 15 April 2024 (UTC)reply
These sources are not new. They were already present when the AFD was created. As such, nothing changes my mind.
GiantSnowman 18:01, 15 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Whether he ought to get coverage or not isn't really relevant, he's just getting it. So therefore passes GNG. We shouldn't waste time imagining coverage in a world where his brother isn't Cade.
Ortizesp (
talk) 16:32, 16 April 2024 (UTC)reply
WP:YOUNGATH appears to disagree with your reasoning—coverage as individuals that is not local or routine. Almost all English-language coverage is local from his hometown and a large portion of the cited Spanish-language sources are game play summaries, and thus are
WP:ROUTINE. By your logic, if they had a random sister who got coverage because she's their sister, she deserves an article.
Anwegmann (
talk) 22:52, 16 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete. The sources mentioned above fail YOUNGATH, and additionally do not establish him as notable independent of his brother.
JoelleJay (
talk) 00:54, 16 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Keep, clearly passes GNG with significant coverage.--
Ortizesp (
talk) 16:31, 16 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete per
WP:TOOSOON and
WP:BLP,
even if assuming that he passes
WP:BARE, we always err on the side of deleting the articles of kids who are actors or athletes, until they are at least 17 or 18. I do not oppose a userfication.
Bearian (
talk) 14:33, 17 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete I looked up to see if he actually did have a professional contract as I could have sworn 16 was the age limit for professionalism under FIFA rules (or that California had child labour rules). The Ceres Courier source does say that. But what exactly is so remarkable about this? He's 15 and playing for an academy and an under-15 national team. How many other kids are doing that? I think we should only have articles about youth players who are doing something extraordinary, like
Da'vian Kimbrough actually playing a pro game at 13 - for a team that Chance Cowell didn't do so at. I think some on football Wikipedia are currently stretching
WP:GNG with younger relatives of footballers, who get a lot of cheap filler coverage but haven't done anything in their own right.
Unknown Temptation (
talk) 18:13, 18 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Draftify or merge with
Cade_Cowell#Personal_life. He likely will be notable, but he isn't now as it's too soon. Either outcome preserves the history for a spinout when he does meet the criteria.
StarMississippi 00:30, 20 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, LizRead!Talk! 22:53, 20 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Would most likely say to draftify this article so it can be improved by the person who created it. Also as per
WP:TOOSOON.
NoobThreePointOh (
talk) 10:39, 22 April 2024 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was draftify. Consensus exists not to retain the article at this time in mainspace, and there is a) some support for draftication over delete, b) comments from delete !voters which indicate their acceptance of draftication as an alternative, and c) no consensus opposing draftification as a valid
AtD. Hence, draftify it is.
Daniel (
talk) 03:56, 28 April 2024 (UTC)reply
I see this article as
WP:TOOSOON, as I can only find substantive coverage from the Carese Courier (three articles) and a few Spanish-language sites about him choosing Mexico over the United States. He is 15 years old, has never played a professional match, and only represents Mexico at the under-15 level. I think this article should be draftified, but I understand if the vote is to keep it. I'm curious what consensus will be on this.
Anwegmann (
talk) 22:03, 13 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Note: This discussion has been included in
WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions.
Anwegmann (
talk) 22:11, 13 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me.
GiantSnowman 10:45, 14 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Keep - @
GiantSnowman:, I found
[1],
[2], and
[3] among many more Spanish and English sources. Young player with ongoing pro and international career (already signed pro contractw ith senior
Major League Soccer SJ Earthquakes with many sources already. Should be a clear keep if not a draftify at the very worst. Thanks,
Das osmnezz (
talk) 22:00, 14 April 2024 (UTC)reply
As the nom, I'm a bit torn here, as Cowell has never played a pro game and his international career is at the under-15 level. As such, he is not remotely notable as a footballer. I wonder if his current fame, and thus the focus on him, is entirely the result of his brother's success at Chivas and with the United States senior team. I ask myself: Would Chance Cowell be acknowledged at all if his brother wasn't Cade Cowell? And I think the answer is "No, he wouldn't." I think a drafitify is the most appropriate move here, but I nominated the article because I think there's is a fruitful discussion to have.
Anwegmann (
talk) 23:59, 14 April 2024 (UTC)reply
He has evidently performed well enough for his youth teams to receive a senior professional San Jose Earthquakes contract at the age of fifteen... Thanks,
Das osmnezz (
talk) 00:18, 15 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Sure, but that means nothing until he appears for the team. What I'm saying is that this is an example of
WP:TOOSOON—the player clearly shows potential of being notable in his own right, and may become independently notable in the future, but as of right now, he's not notable enough to deserve his own article based on three caps for an under-15 national team two years ago and a professional contract, but no appearances, for an MLS club. Almost every source of any substance is predicated on him being Cade Cowell's brother. It's not a wasted article, and your work in creating it is justified, generally. But it needs to be draftified until he can "stand on his own," as it were.
Anwegmann (
talk) 00:29, 15 April 2024 (UTC)reply
These sources are not new. They were already present when the AFD was created. As such, nothing changes my mind.
GiantSnowman 18:01, 15 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Whether he ought to get coverage or not isn't really relevant, he's just getting it. So therefore passes GNG. We shouldn't waste time imagining coverage in a world where his brother isn't Cade.
Ortizesp (
talk) 16:32, 16 April 2024 (UTC)reply
WP:YOUNGATH appears to disagree with your reasoning—coverage as individuals that is not local or routine. Almost all English-language coverage is local from his hometown and a large portion of the cited Spanish-language sources are game play summaries, and thus are
WP:ROUTINE. By your logic, if they had a random sister who got coverage because she's their sister, she deserves an article.
Anwegmann (
talk) 22:52, 16 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete. The sources mentioned above fail YOUNGATH, and additionally do not establish him as notable independent of his brother.
JoelleJay (
talk) 00:54, 16 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Keep, clearly passes GNG with significant coverage.--
Ortizesp (
talk) 16:31, 16 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete per
WP:TOOSOON and
WP:BLP,
even if assuming that he passes
WP:BARE, we always err on the side of deleting the articles of kids who are actors or athletes, until they are at least 17 or 18. I do not oppose a userfication.
Bearian (
talk) 14:33, 17 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Delete I looked up to see if he actually did have a professional contract as I could have sworn 16 was the age limit for professionalism under FIFA rules (or that California had child labour rules). The Ceres Courier source does say that. But what exactly is so remarkable about this? He's 15 and playing for an academy and an under-15 national team. How many other kids are doing that? I think we should only have articles about youth players who are doing something extraordinary, like
Da'vian Kimbrough actually playing a pro game at 13 - for a team that Chance Cowell didn't do so at. I think some on football Wikipedia are currently stretching
WP:GNG with younger relatives of footballers, who get a lot of cheap filler coverage but haven't done anything in their own right.
Unknown Temptation (
talk) 18:13, 18 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Draftify or merge with
Cade_Cowell#Personal_life. He likely will be notable, but he isn't now as it's too soon. Either outcome preserves the history for a spinout when he does meet the criteria.
StarMississippi 00:30, 20 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, LizRead!Talk! 22:53, 20 April 2024 (UTC)reply
Would most likely say to draftify this article so it can be improved by the person who created it. Also as per
WP:TOOSOON.
NoobThreePointOh (
talk) 10:39, 22 April 2024 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's
talk page or in a
deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.