The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. Seraphimblade ^{Talk to me} 05:28, 1 February 2024 (UTC) reply

Bouriema Kimba

Bouriema Kimba (  | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)

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No SIGCOV found in my searches – remaining source 3 is a blog, not usable to establish notability on Wikipedia. InvadingInvader ( userpage, talk) 05:00, 10 January 2024 (UTC) reply

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Olympics, and Africa. InvadingInvader ( userpage, talk) 05:00, 10 January 2024 (UTC) reply
• Comment: He ran on par with a quite good 17-18 year old boy. But was not a world class runner, and was only inserted into various competition because Niger had to send someone. This means a lack of sporting achievements, which translated into a lack of coverage. Geschichte ( talk) 20:38, 10 January 2024 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 08:49, 17 January 2024 (UTC) reply

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 06:52, 24 January 2024 (UTC) reply

• Delete: Nothing found in Gnews, not much more turns up in Gsearch. I don't see notability based on the limited amount of sourcing given. Oaktree b ( talk) 15:29, 24 January 2024 (UTC) reply
• Keep based on meeting WP:NTRACK (national record holder, presumed national champion based on selection to Olympics / World Indoors) and WP:SPORTCRIT including one piece of SIGCOV being his death announcement [1]. -- Habst ( talk) 15:47, 24 January 2024 (UTC) reply
• Delete. Neither national record holder or national champion is a free pass. @ Habst It's almost disconcerting that you would call three sentences in a literal Blogspot post "significant coverage". Geschichte ( talk) 18:28, 24 January 2024 (UTC) reply

• @ Geschichte, thank you for your vote and I greatly respect your work here even when I disagree. Blogspot is a content-neutral platform like e.g. Cloudflare, saying something is on blogspot or hosted on Cloudflare doesn't tell us anything one way or the other about its suitability. Despite the name, many publications on Blogspot aren't even "blogs" in the traditional sense, there are legitimate news organizations publishing on Blogger just as there illegitimate ones. In this case, based on the French name I assume this is a publication about athletics in Niger similar to the independent Track & Field News (in the U.S.) or Athletics Weekly (in the U.K.). Happy to discuss the sources further if additional evidence is provided. --18:42, 24 January 2024 (UTC) Habst ( talk) 18:42, 24 January 2024 (UTC) reply

• We can't "assume" that a source is WP:RS when it is under active discussion. The need for "evidence" is contrary to what you think, i.e. the evidence has to underpin the reliability. Reliable media have to have a named editorial board for starters. Blogspot is more likely a means of self-publishing than not. It's not necessarily about self-publishing being illegitimate, and it can even be true, but still not reliable in Wikipedia's sense. Furthermore, you forgot to address the point about the source being three sentences long, so even if the source was a WP:RS, it is far from significant coverage. Geschichte ( talk) 10:45, 25 January 2024 (UTC) reply

• Delete: Subject lacks the WP:SIGCOV to meet the GNG. Blogspot is not a reliable source, and I don't see anything better. Let'srun ( talk) 04:12, 25 January 2024 (UTC) reply

• Delete. Clearly fails GNG. Blog posts like the above violate BLP so should be removed.

JoelleJay ( talk) 22:32, 28 January 2024 (UTC) reply

@ JoelleJay, thank you for your response. If you think that the source I linked is a blog post, then you are free to remove it from the article – I have no desire to violate BLP. The name of the publication is French: Nouvelles de l’Athlétisme Nigérien (Nigerien Athletics News), and just because it is published on blogspot.com does not mean it is a blog or that it is self-published. I think that as a two-time Olympian from Niger in the marquee sport at the Olympics, and their only sprinter at the 1996 edition, it is reasonable to assume that significant coverage exists of Kimba, especially as we know that he had a long career beyond his sporting accomplishments including being the Nigerien national sprint coach. We haven't even touched the surface of Nigerien newspapers to confirm this.

Because we can know this coverage exists, I think the article of Kimba fulfills WP:BASIC and should be kept, but I am curious as to your thoughts about this case specifically. Thank you, -- Habst ( talk) 23:01, 28 January 2024 (UTC) reply

Blogger should never be used for third-party claims related to  living persons. I won't remove it since this isn't a recent BLP, but it should be clear that it is not RS. And even if it was, the death notice is barely 3 sentences, in first-person, and thus fails both SIGCOV and PRIMARY/INDY.
We do not "know" SIGCOV exists, that is a baseless claim. JoelleJay ( talk) 23:56, 28 January 2024 (UTC) reply

@ JoelleJay, thank you for pointing that out because it just occurred to me that Kimba died in 2013, and thus WP:BLP does not apply as more than two years have passed since his death. I found an additional two sources from just a cursory search that tell us some more info about Kimba, and I added them to the article.

We do not "know" SIGCOV exists, that is a baseless claim – We do know that SIGCOV exists for Kimba, here are the bases for this claim:

• We know that Kimba was a national champion at least two times, and was one of the most successful sprinters in Nigerien history including holding the Nigerien national record.
• We know that Kimba twice competed at the Olympic Games and was once the only sprinter representing Niger, in the marquee event of the marquee sport of one of the most notable sporting competitions in the world.
• We know that there are several daily newspapers in Niger, some of which are listed at Mass media in Niger. Looking at the list on that page, it seems like not even one of them was searched in this deletion discussion so far, so I will begin combing through them.
• We know that Kimba led an extremely active post-Olympic career, including becoming the national sprint coach of Niger and being the president of the Association Nigerienne des Olympiens. This is unusual even among Olympians – most of them only have limited involvement with the sport after retirement.
• We know that Kimba was still recognized years after his death, to the point where he received a posthumous trophy from the L'Association des Anciens Athlètes du Niger in 2014.
• We know that Kimba died in 2013, and that his exact date and manner (road accident) of death are known. The tradition of newspapers is to publish such information in obituaries for notable people; it is all but certain that such information would have been covered in one of the above media sources.

Based on those points, we know that significant coverage exists – it's simply a matter of finding it now, and WP:BASIC allows us to keep the article with that knowledge in hand. -- Habst ( talk) 00:26, 29 January 2024 (UTC) reply

• Source two on the German wiki might be worth looking into. BeanieFan11 ( talk) 23:30, 28 January 2024 (UTC) reply
• Keep. Eh, what the heck. We know this guy was one of the greatest athletes in his nation's history, and we know this guy then became one of the most prominent coaches in his country's history. Niger may be one of the worst countries (the worst?) when it comes to difficulty in finding sources; as most of even today's sources there are offline. But we do know that there are ~15 newspapers currently operating in Niger (probably some that don't anymore from his time period, as well) and that we have access to absolutely zero – repeat – absolutely zero – coverage from the time he had his most notable accomplishments. It is simply incomprehensible to assume that his accomplishments would not have been covered in his country – as he was one of their only Olympians and set national records in their most prominent sport in some of the most prominent events. Olympedia gives a biography of about ~55 words, which although short, is of note as it is extraordinarily rare for them to do it for non-developed countries and even moreso in more recent (1990s) times; he looks to be possibly the only one they do that for in Niger, indicating that he was quite prominent in his nation's affairs. Common sense indicates that this guy is notable. WP:IAR. I don't think deleting this makes Wikipedia better. BeanieFan11 ( talk) 16:33, 29 January 2024 (UTC) reply
• Very weak keep per BeanieFan11. ~WikiOriginal-9~ ( talk) 18:06, 29 January 2024 (UTC) reply

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.