- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Arbitrarily0 ( talk) 05:02, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
Éva Balázs
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- Éva Balázs ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Subject fails WP:NOLY and WP:GNG. The historian of the same name is probably more notable than this Olympian and I think we can wait for obituaries. Chris Troutman ( talk) 21:23, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Women, Olympics, and Hungary. Chris Troutman ( talk) 21:23, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
- hu.Wikipedia has a lot more content and lists a bunch of sources. BeanieFan11 ( talk) 21:27, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
- More content without claim of notability for ANYBIO, but not much more for sources, certainly not enough for GNG. Hu-wiki is a good place for a Hungarian athlete. Why would we replicate that here?
Chris Troutman (
talk) 21:48, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
- Haven't analyzed all the sources yet, but
Hu-wiki is a good place for a Hungarian athlete. Why would we replicate that here?
What? Are you saying that we should only have English athletes here and that non-Englishmen are irrelevant to this Wikipedia? BeanieFan11 ( talk) 22:37, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
- Haven't analyzed all the sources yet, but
- Comment and question. I've not previously encountered the argument that the Wikipedia of a person's native language is the "good place" for an article but questioning why we would "replicate" it in En-Wikipedia. It's always been my understanding that, if a person is not notable, they shouldn't have an article on any of our Wikipedias, but if they are notable, they may qualify for an article on En-wikipedia as well. Also not sure I agree that the Hu-wiki article lacks a claim to notability -- it states that Balázs won more than 60
skiingchampionships and cites a number of sources. Do we have any Hungarian-speaking editors who could examine the sources cited in the Hu-wiki article ( here) to assess whether they rise to the level of WP:SIGCOV? Cbl62 ( talk) 23:04, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
- I should have said that while the subject is not notable here, perhaps the bar is low enough on hu-wiki. It is easier for hu-wiki to evaluate Hungarian-language sources, which even if translated would still be LOCAL coverage. NOLY requires medaling, which this athlete didn't do. As I don't follow sports I cannot tell if winning these skiing championships are at all significant. Chris Troutman ( talk) 23:36, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
- Passing / failing NOLY / NSPORT is wholly irrelevant in modern (i.e. since March 2022) times – all that matters is GNG / NBASIC – now, taking a translation of the Hungarian sources I get:
- Comment and question. I've not previously encountered the argument that the Wikipedia of a person's native language is the "good place" for an article but questioning why we would "replicate" it in En-Wikipedia. It's always been my understanding that, if a person is not notable, they shouldn't have an article on any of our Wikipedias, but if they are notable, they may qualify for an article on En-wikipedia as well. Also not sure I agree that the Hu-wiki article lacks a claim to notability -- it states that Balázs won more than 60
- More content without claim of notability for ANYBIO, but not much more for sources, certainly not enough for GNG. Hu-wiki is a good place for a Hungarian athlete. Why would we replicate that here?
Chris Troutman (
talk) 21:48, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
Péter Fügedy: 75 years in red and blue, Népszava, 1986. ISBN 963 322 376 8
Péter Fügedy: Our winners, our champions, WERK Nyomdaipari és Könyvkiadó Kereskedő Kft., é. n.
B. N. - National Sport, January 8, 1992.
Monspart Sarolta: B. É. - Orienteering, 1992
Péter Kozák: Éva Balázs, Sándorné Őzse skier, orienteer, physical education teacher
More information
Who's who in Hungarian sports life? Written and edited by Peter Kozak. Szekszárd, Babits, 1994.
Réva's New Lexicon. Main editor. Colleague István Tarsoly. Szekszárd, Babits, 1996-.
Sports encyclopedia. Main editor. László Nádori. Bp., Sport, 1985-1986.
New Hungarian biographical lexicon. Main editor. László Markó. Bp., Hungarian Book Club.
Vasas Hírek - Monspart Sarolta 70.
- Those sources are biographical encyclopedias about notable Hungarians – that is not "local" coverage (or are you trying to say all coverage from one's native country is local – because if that's the case, well, you're wrong). BeanieFan11 ( talk) 00:10, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
- I just remembered, in addition to the several likely significant books above, there's a paywalled Hungarian newspaper archive (that allows you to see previews) by the name of Arcanum.com – taking a look for their results of "Balázs Éva" síelő (trans. Éva Balázs skier) there's plenty of coverage listed (111 direct matches) including what seems to be entries providing direct coverage of our subject, e.g. among others, the Who's who has what appears to be at least two pages of coverage (p. 222-223 at least?), there seems to be an article on Balazs in the December 12, 1988 edition of Népsport (years after her career), and Magyar Ifjúság 1973 apparently has a story titled (google trans.) The Hungarian cross-country queen Éva Balázs: A Hungarian world champion – that's almost certainly significant coverage. This has all the appearances of a notable athlete. I'm suggesting Keep. @ Cbl62 and Chris troutman: BeanieFan11 ( talk) 00:26, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
- Found a website that provides a quote from one of the books discussing Balazs – it has over 500 words; SIGCOV. This should be kept. BeanieFan11 ( talk) 00:35, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
- Keep - She won 36 national titles. I think it's safe to assume more coverage exists. KatoKungLee ( talk) 00:56, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
- Keep - article is a stub. But she is a multi national competition winner. Plus Olympic appearance is enough for inclusion.
BabbaQ (
talk) 16:14, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
- Olympic appearance is not enough for inclusion, just so you know, the policy changed over a year ago. No comment on the other stuff though. MarchOfThe Greyhounds 08:47, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Arbitrarily0 ( talk) 05:02, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
Éva Balázs
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Éva Balázs ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Subject fails WP:NOLY and WP:GNG. The historian of the same name is probably more notable than this Olympian and I think we can wait for obituaries. Chris Troutman ( talk) 21:23, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Women, Olympics, and Hungary. Chris Troutman ( talk) 21:23, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
- hu.Wikipedia has a lot more content and lists a bunch of sources. BeanieFan11 ( talk) 21:27, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
- More content without claim of notability for ANYBIO, but not much more for sources, certainly not enough for GNG. Hu-wiki is a good place for a Hungarian athlete. Why would we replicate that here?
Chris Troutman (
talk) 21:48, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
- Haven't analyzed all the sources yet, but
Hu-wiki is a good place for a Hungarian athlete. Why would we replicate that here?
What? Are you saying that we should only have English athletes here and that non-Englishmen are irrelevant to this Wikipedia? BeanieFan11 ( talk) 22:37, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
- Haven't analyzed all the sources yet, but
- Comment and question. I've not previously encountered the argument that the Wikipedia of a person's native language is the "good place" for an article but questioning why we would "replicate" it in En-Wikipedia. It's always been my understanding that, if a person is not notable, they shouldn't have an article on any of our Wikipedias, but if they are notable, they may qualify for an article on En-wikipedia as well. Also not sure I agree that the Hu-wiki article lacks a claim to notability -- it states that Balázs won more than 60
skiingchampionships and cites a number of sources. Do we have any Hungarian-speaking editors who could examine the sources cited in the Hu-wiki article ( here) to assess whether they rise to the level of WP:SIGCOV? Cbl62 ( talk) 23:04, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
- I should have said that while the subject is not notable here, perhaps the bar is low enough on hu-wiki. It is easier for hu-wiki to evaluate Hungarian-language sources, which even if translated would still be LOCAL coverage. NOLY requires medaling, which this athlete didn't do. As I don't follow sports I cannot tell if winning these skiing championships are at all significant. Chris Troutman ( talk) 23:36, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
- Passing / failing NOLY / NSPORT is wholly irrelevant in modern (i.e. since March 2022) times – all that matters is GNG / NBASIC – now, taking a translation of the Hungarian sources I get:
- Comment and question. I've not previously encountered the argument that the Wikipedia of a person's native language is the "good place" for an article but questioning why we would "replicate" it in En-Wikipedia. It's always been my understanding that, if a person is not notable, they shouldn't have an article on any of our Wikipedias, but if they are notable, they may qualify for an article on En-wikipedia as well. Also not sure I agree that the Hu-wiki article lacks a claim to notability -- it states that Balázs won more than 60
- More content without claim of notability for ANYBIO, but not much more for sources, certainly not enough for GNG. Hu-wiki is a good place for a Hungarian athlete. Why would we replicate that here?
Chris Troutman (
talk) 21:48, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
Péter Fügedy: 75 years in red and blue, Népszava, 1986. ISBN 963 322 376 8
Péter Fügedy: Our winners, our champions, WERK Nyomdaipari és Könyvkiadó Kereskedő Kft., é. n.
B. N. - National Sport, January 8, 1992.
Monspart Sarolta: B. É. - Orienteering, 1992
Péter Kozák: Éva Balázs, Sándorné Őzse skier, orienteer, physical education teacher
More information
Who's who in Hungarian sports life? Written and edited by Peter Kozak. Szekszárd, Babits, 1994.
Réva's New Lexicon. Main editor. Colleague István Tarsoly. Szekszárd, Babits, 1996-.
Sports encyclopedia. Main editor. László Nádori. Bp., Sport, 1985-1986.
New Hungarian biographical lexicon. Main editor. László Markó. Bp., Hungarian Book Club.
Vasas Hírek - Monspart Sarolta 70.
- Those sources are biographical encyclopedias about notable Hungarians – that is not "local" coverage (or are you trying to say all coverage from one's native country is local – because if that's the case, well, you're wrong). BeanieFan11 ( talk) 00:10, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
- I just remembered, in addition to the several likely significant books above, there's a paywalled Hungarian newspaper archive (that allows you to see previews) by the name of Arcanum.com – taking a look for their results of "Balázs Éva" síelő (trans. Éva Balázs skier) there's plenty of coverage listed (111 direct matches) including what seems to be entries providing direct coverage of our subject, e.g. among others, the Who's who has what appears to be at least two pages of coverage (p. 222-223 at least?), there seems to be an article on Balazs in the December 12, 1988 edition of Népsport (years after her career), and Magyar Ifjúság 1973 apparently has a story titled (google trans.) The Hungarian cross-country queen Éva Balázs: A Hungarian world champion – that's almost certainly significant coverage. This has all the appearances of a notable athlete. I'm suggesting Keep. @ Cbl62 and Chris troutman: BeanieFan11 ( talk) 00:26, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
- Found a website that provides a quote from one of the books discussing Balazs – it has over 500 words; SIGCOV. This should be kept. BeanieFan11 ( talk) 00:35, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
- Keep - She won 36 national titles. I think it's safe to assume more coverage exists. KatoKungLee ( talk) 00:56, 15 November 2023 (UTC)
- Keep - article is a stub. But she is a multi national competition winner. Plus Olympic appearance is enough for inclusion.
BabbaQ (
talk) 16:14, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
- Olympic appearance is not enough for inclusion, just so you know, the policy changed over a year ago. No comment on the other stuff though. MarchOfThe Greyhounds 08:47, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.