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My discussion with him over the article Steven Chayer has been kind and level-headed. He is condescending and rude and wants to be an Administrative Editor.
Drewhamilton ( talk) 06:33, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
Please help me with this guy.
[1] He's mean and on a power trip and he knows it because I pointed out how mean-spirited and unessecary something he had on his user page was and he A) Deleted my comment in the Articles for Deletion discussion
[2] over an article I wrote "Steven Chayer" B) He edited his user page to removed the stuff on his user page I had pointed out as mean and needless.
Drewhamilton (
talk) 19:52, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
User Finisklin ( talk · contribs · logs) has added references or external links to at least 12 different articles (see diffs, below), all to content written by one Cormac Burke. He has done so seemingly without concern for whether this person is an notable authority on the relevant subject or whether the linked resource is appropriate to the article, leading me to believe he is engaging in linkspamming. I am not certain he understands that his actions are questionable, and I have opened discussions with him on his talk page, but it feels like continuing the discussion would sap more of my energy than I'd like to sacrifice. I'm hoping someone else can back me up on this.
Diffs: [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8], [9], [10], [11], [12], [13], [14], [15]. Note that these comprise all but one of his article-space edits.
Ilkali ( talk) 13:45, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
Thanks to whichever volunteers handle issues at this page, I hope you find your work rewarding.
I've been tolerating provocative rudeness by User:Ilkali at Talk:Gender of God for some time now. Mainly I've ignored it, and stuck to answering nit-picking challenges and Wikilawyering. Eventually, I worked out it was trolling of some kind and I shouldn't feed it. I gave notice of withdrawing from discussion and explained why.
Now, however, this user is actually insisting on removing a reply I have given as part of a very long standing discussion to another user, who is currently absent. I have given warnings and finally a 3RR warning. Personally, I'd rather the user just chooses to be more civil, and allow things that irk him to stand; but how can I continue interacting with another long standing editor on this page, if a third party deletes my replies? Or am I to understand I can edit talk pages as well as articles and delete comments I think are inappropriate?
It seems to me we need to be even more generous in what we allow in talk pages than we do in articles. Where would we be if people had the right to delete talk page posts they disagreed with? Does this user have the right to remove my comment here?
Sorry to trouble you, but I've spent a long time talking an important issue through with User:Andowney and we actually seem to be getting to the end of it at last. But now Ilkali has deleted my reply. :( Alastair Haines ( talk) 15:50, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
The user left a personal attack on the talk page of another blocked user. I left a friendly note on his talk page, which was promptly deleted without explanation. I'm fully aware that the contents of talk pages can be deleted as is the wish of the user, but sensing that he might get the message if a proper warning was left, I posted a uw-npa1 warning on his page. This, too, was promptly deleted. The user then threatened to report me for harassment. Any chance of an admin dropping him a line in relation to WP:CIVILITY? Thanks. -- Schcambo aon scéal? 16:08, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
Marking as resolved because there is no instance of a personal attack at user talk:Sarah777, and a user is allowed to remove comments from his own talk page. seicer | talk | contribs 18:28, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
This user, recently warned and then blocked for making offensive remarks against me, has resumed his attacks. Here, here, here, here, here and here he goads and prods me, insinuating dark motives on my part. Let me elaborate: I noted at Template:Romanian historical regions that certain regions were part of Romania in 1941-44, which in fact they were. Now, how exactly the template should be constructed is open to interpretation. What is, however, completely unacceptable is that Xasha, despite his recent block and warning, and despite my pointing out to him repeatedly that he is violating AGF, CIV and NPA, accuses me of "trying to legitimize Operation Barbarossa" - the Nazi German invasion of the USSR, in which Romania's fascist wartime regime also took part. Obviously these are very serious, but also entirely baseless charges. I have asked Xasha to withdraw the charge, to comment on content rather than on the editor, to stop attempting to smear my good name, but all to no avail. It is not up to him to air his "impression" and "supposition" that I am "trying to legitimize Operation Barbarossa", but if I can't convince him of that through discussion, then it only remains to me to seek a more formal means of clearing my name. Biruitorul Talk 19:38, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm not touching this one with a ten-foot pole -- but for whoever does, this arbitration case is relevant. Basically, Xasha is one of a number of editors who is on a very short leash on any articles relating to Eastern Europe... -- Jaysweet ( talk) 20:34, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Since this has already been escalated to WP:ANI and involves past arbitration rulings, there's nothing that can be done about it here. Please don't forum shop. -- Jaysweet ( talk) 20:42, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Hello, on the talk page of the PlaneShift (video game) article, a URL keeps getting reinserted that I have an issue with. I very rarely edit people's comments, but my problem with the URL is that it has a link to a 6.4MB binary that is being presented as allowing users to cheat in the game. Nobody will download it because it's a binary, and in my opinion, we do not need to have such URLs in the talk namespace that have the potential to hurt people's systems. Obviously, WP:EL#AVOID would disallow it in the article namespace for the same reason. Up to now, I've been taking the liberty of removing the URL to this download page as to what WP:TALK and WP:EL#AVOID allow me to do, and I've also seeked out a second opinion on Wikipedia's offtopic IRC channel from some editors that are more established than I am before continuing to do so, yet the URL keeps getting reinserted and I fail to see why it should ever be in the talk namespace. I don't know what else I can do on the talk page without promoting incivility there; thus I now seek a third opinion to be posted on the talk page. Tuxide ( talk) of WikiProject Retailing 12:33, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
Sure, sixie.
This is a classic problem with borderline notable subjects on Wikipedia. There are only a handful of 3rd-party publications that even mention the subject, so it is impossible to get a really objective feel for how to fairly balance the positives and negatives that are presented.
With the risk of someone pointing out to me that WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS, I think the article already has too much primary source detail. The "Setting" section is okay, but the various subsections (particularly the one about the death zone or whatever) are a bit overly-detailed. The entire "Gameplay" section is way too detailed. From an encyclopedic standpoint, this is a MMORPG focused on roleplay, and that's about all we need to know.
If the article were trimmed down so it didn't have so much borderline-relevant primary source material, I imagine the lack of mention of the cheating exploits would not seem so glaringly absent.
To put it a different way, I don't feel comfortable adding the material that Sixie proposes because it relies too much on original interpretation of primary sources. But I feel like if I say that, we also have to admit that most of the existing article has a similar problem.
I'm not sure exactly what to do, but those are my thoughts about it. -- Jaysweet ( talk) 16:49, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
Thomasalazar ( talk · contribs) is removing tags without the tag task being completed. I asked him nicely to cite sources, and he just reverts the tags and blanks his user page to all comments by me and other users.
I feel that if I re-tag the article, he will just revert again. I know that he is young, maybe 18, but he is in his own world, and doesn't want to play by any rules. I am going to add the tags back, but wanted to complete this first.
~ WikiDon ( talk) 20:40, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
ETC, ETc, Etc, etc,.....
At this point, I would recommend taking it to WP:SSP to report the suspected sockpuppetry if anyone wants to force the issue. As I say, the removal of tags in this case is basically simple vandalism, and should be treated as such (an "unreferenced" tag on an article with one or two references is controversial, but on an article with zero references there is no room for debate). And as far as the sockpuppetry, we don't have the tools or authority to deal with that here. Best of luck! -- Jaysweet ( talk) 13:43, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
I would like suggestions or assistance in dealing with posts like this - playing games and teasing do not help build a page. I am hardly an innocent here. WLU ( talk) 22:55, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
I'd like some advice in addressing a dispute I have been having with User:Sanitycult regarding Master Mahan. In the past few days, Sanitycult announced on the talk page that s/he would be removing some material from the article that was the subject of some dispute in April. I, thinking that this issue was positively resolved in April, made a post suggesting that it need not be deleted and gave a brief summary of what I understood to be the outcome from the April dispute. Through an IP address, Sanitycult accused me of inserting "(my) bigoted views" into every paragraph of the article and of having a "personal crusade" regarding the article and that s/he would remove the material s/he objected to. I responded to his/her points, and included a suggestion that s/he not accuse anyone of bigotry as it could be interpreted as a personal attack.
Sanitycult then responded with this post, where s/he said, among other things: "you appear to be unable to read"; "What the hell is your agenda?"; "you seem to be reading the [disputed reference] shit a little to deeply as your logic is falling apart at the seams". In my response I've tried to respond nicely, but I'm becoming a bit distressed both about Sanitycult's incivility to me and his/her unwillingness to wait for the comments of other editors on the question in dispute. Even in his/her first post announcing the changes, s/he called two religious groups that oppose one another "bible-thumping retards", which I didn't feel was particularly constructive.
Over the past 24 hours or so, Sanitycult has deleted the information three times, and I have restored it twice and asked numerous times, including on the user's talk page, if we could reach consensus via input from other editors before the changes are made. In his/her most recent edit summary, s/he has accused me of "vandalizing" the article with my "personal agenda".
Thanks in advance for any assistance/advice that can be offered. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:12, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
This user, recently taken before Arbitration Enforcement (see here) and consequently blocked for incivility, persists in making the same charges that brought about that block. It's this paragraph I'm referring to: "Racist comments... open ethno-racist remarks are made by User:Biruitorul". This is false, offensive, inflammatory and an attempt at character assassination. I will not stand to be called an "ethno-racist" by this user, and I have made it clear that every instance of this will be dealt with by a report to an official forum. This is just the latest. I'm not seeking for Moldopodo to be blocked or what have you - I merely want an apology and an assurance that such language will not be addressed to me in the future by him. Biruitorul Talk 20:46, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
A question, etiquette related too. To how many boards and how many times did Biru posted complaints lately on his content opponents. I lost track but a full disclosure would come handy. -- Irpen 23:04, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
This is User:SportsMaster. I have a case of Wikistalk with GoHuskies9904. He has been editing article I have created almost exclusively. For a small portion of the list of articles he has done this to see the following. Homer E. Woodling [16], Robert F. Busbey [17], Weird U.S. [18], 2004 NBA All-Star Game [19], 1997 NBA All-Star Game [20], 1981 NBA All-Star Game [21], 1972 NBA All-Star Game [22], 1951 All-Star Game [23]. Please note that he did not mark any other NBA All-Star games as stubs (presumably because I didn't create them). Here are more examples. Vixen (RV), Dodge Meadowbrook, Suzuki FZ50, Waterloo Hawks, Waterloo Hawks all-time roster, Moondog (mascot), Whammer (mascot), Robert E. Hawkins, Yahoo! Sports, Yahoo! Fantasy Sports, 2007-08 Drake Bulldogs men's basketball team, Maxwell Show. It seems to me he carries a beef with me since I reverted his incorrect edit on 02:48, February 27, 2008 about the 2007-08 Drake Bulldogs men's basketball team. [24] Here is a listing of all of his edits [25] Please also take not that this has gone on for months at a time.
-- SportsMaster ( talk) 20:21, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
I do work well with others. You are one of the exceptions. You seemed to take offense to me reverting your edit here [26]. Since you then preceded to disregard my comments I left on your talk page about the 2007-08 Drake Bulldogs men's basketball team article. The source you were using was a Seinfeld script, which HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH DRAKE BULLDOGS BASKETBALL, which I explained in my above comment. [27] Then you couldn’t seem to comprehend the comment I left you and wanted to get into an edit war over it. You also then left me this comment, which is TOTALLY uncivilized. [28] You then wouldn’t leave the article alone until another person agreed with me. [29] Then you proceeded to wait a few months (presumably thinking I wouldn't watch the page then (which I was)) and got into another edit war over it. [30]. You were once again proved incorrect. [31] Since you do started off by disregarding my comments I left on your talk page about the 2007-08 Drake Bulldogs men's basketball team article you seemed to want to get revenge by going through my edit history, and mainly my user page, which I have subsequently blanked for the very reasons and nominating numerous articles for deletion to annoy me and waste my time. Also once again Jaysweet he makes no mention of why he almost never contributes anything on his own, GoHuskies almost only nominates articles for deletion (stuff I have worked hard on and spent a great deal of time on). Without contributing anything on his own. Which he still has yet to address. You sir are the one who does not work well with others. After the afore mentioned totally uncivilized comment, I had good reason to not want to communicate with you at all. All this is taking an extreme amount of time and energy out of my day and is EXTREMLY frustrating. This has gone on for months and MUST CEASE. -- SportsMaster ( talk) 15:41, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
SM -- Aside from the Woodling/Busbey AfDs, what other articles have you created that you feel GH has nominated for AfD in bad faith? -- Jaysweet ( talk) 18:09, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Waterloo Hawks all-time roster. I finally just gave up and merged it, even though all other NBA teams have an all-time roster page. It also is one thing if he nomtinated other pages for deletion, but he dosn't, only mine. Ones that were listed on my userpage.Some articles might have been stubs that he nominated, but the fact is that information was going to be added, and he was the only person who had a big enough problem with it to nominate it for deletion. -- SportsMaster ( talk) 19:34, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Also note this [32] -- SportsMaster ( talk) 19:38, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Keep in mind I posted my comment at 19:58. He made his nominations and changes, and then lied about the timestamps afterword. -- SportsMaster ( talk) 20:17, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
First, as to the matter of the falsified time stamps... The where GoHuskies suggested deleting all of the articles in the category occurred at 20:00 and the timestamp is accurate. SportsMaster's complaint here was posted at 19:58, so it did occur before GH's nomination of all the articles, but only just barely. It is impossible to tell whether this was made in good faith or not, so I will not comment on that.
GH did have one edit with incorrect timestamps, however, the false timestamp used was 20:02 (it should have been 20:09) which is after SM's complaint, so there is no nefarious reason for GH to have changed the timestamp in this matter. A much simpler (and more likely) explanation, especially when one looks at the diff, is that GH was editing/copy-and-pasting a previous edit, since the formatting of the new edit was largely the same, and happened to also copy-and-paste the timestamp rather than replacing it with tildes. I don't see any attempt to deceive here.
Regarding the merit of these AfDs, I would point out that there is precdent. See the deletion log here, where in 2006 this article was deleted because (surprise!) "high school sports conferences are not notable".
So, that's the good news for GoHuskies: I see no attempt to deceive, and the nominations are reasonable.
Now, the bad news for GoHuskies: I am increasingly concerned that there is a pattern here, based on your contribs. Even if 100% of your edits are constructive, if 75% of them are in relation to deleting articles created by SportsMaster, that's going to create conflict regardless of your intentions. I would urge you once again to back off from nominating articles created by SportsMaster, as I think it would be in everyone's best interests. In this case, as you pointed out, there are dozens of articles not created by SportsMaster that have the same notability problems. I would urge you in the future to begin by nominating those articles, and then if a consensus develops, perhaps other editors will volunteer to go through and tag all of the other non-notable high school sports conferences.
Even though your edits are constructive, they are having the effect of stirring the pot in regards to this conflict, and I worry about your intentions. I'm not exactly sure what to do. -- Jaysweet ( talk) 20:37, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
It's not blatant. All those pages are lists that are stubs that are already listed on the main Ohio page. No need for duplicate information. Let the voters decide and stop reporting people everytime you disagree with some one. I'm not deleting your work or anyother's work. I am leaving it up to 3rd and 4th parties to decide what to do with pages I think need to be deleted. That is all. Go vote, give your reason why they should stay and stop harassing me. If you keep reporting me, I will report you and I'm not the only user who has had issues with you. No one else has had them with me! So please, lets be civil. Did you read Kiefer's post? -- GoHuskies9904 ( talk) 20:39, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
It was blatant. You are the person who is nominating the articles causing a severe waste of my time. I am not harassing anyone. You can stop making yourself look like the victim here and now. YOU are the person who would not agree to Jaysweets idea of you ceasing to nominate articles I created for deletion. You chose not to agree to that, even though it was suitable for me. Once again you try to make it look like I am the one who is not civil here, but saying lets be civil. I am the person who has offered to talk to you online via AIM, and IRC, both of which you are declined by not responding to. I am not acting uncivil in the least bit, if anything lieing is very uncivil, which you have already done today on this page. -- SportsMaster ( talk) 20:57, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
a number of editors ( 4 or 5, I think, including myself ) have been making changes on the Buddhism page. one editor, who edits under both LuisGomez111 and Pasta4470, has been both consistently rude and disruptive. point by point:
see Talk:Buddhism#Intro_Revertsthis talk page post, and this, and this latest one, as well as others on the page...
I'm trying to reason with him, but I don't seem to be getting through. can someone assist? -- Ludwigs2 ( talk) 18:54, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
There are two editors on this article whose behavior I find disruptive: User:Ludwigs2 and User:Peter jackson. (I have a sneaking suspicion that Ludwigs2 is a sock puppet for Peter jackson.) Here are my complaints:
They attempt to control the article's content through reverts and large deletions. They challenge the most basic and widely accepted information on Buddhism. They seem much more interested in nitpicking and writing lengthy, critical comments on the talk page than in contributing to the article in a meaningful way. Please do something about this. LuisGomez111 ( talk) 19:26, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
The suggestion that Ludwigs is a sockpuppet of mine seems quite far-fetched. If Luis would bother to read the talk page he'd see that Ludwigs & I have been arguing with each other quite extensively.
Examination of the history will show that I've done very little reverting & deletion in the current dispute.
Yes, I "challenge the most basic and widely accepted information on Buddhism", because the reliable sources I cite show it's wrong or questionable. Everyone who's been working on WP for any length of time should have noticed that "widely accepted information" is often wrong. Peter jackson ( talk) 10:44, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm having difficulty discussing content issues with Nishidani, who is too interested in picking my grammar apart than the issues of concern. I recently requested him to stop and even suggested an alternative outlet but he noted his refusal. I would appreciate some external notice/comments to this issue since I am incapable of persuading him myself that his activity in this area is uncivil and offensive.
The thread:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nishidani#English_woes
With respect,
Jaakobou
Chalk Talk 12:31, 3 June 2008 (UTC) clarify 12:32, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
What can I do to get user Mdsummermsw to stop following me around and trying to falsely attach me to other accounts, IPs, etc (see their talk page and the Michelle Rodriguez Discussion Archive page)? It's getting really old that this person reverts practically every edit I do, constantly makes accusations, and when I try to resolve the issue peacefully on their talk page, disemvowel my words, leaving only their own (again, see their talk page). They're behavior of psychotic research trying to prove some point that I am various others is disturbing and disruptive and I'm tired of it. At this point it's stalking, harassment, and slander. I just want to edit articles accurately, I don't want to be stalked and harassed 24/7 by someone who lives on Wikipedia every second of every day and makes it their goal to declare withchunts for no other reason than ego boosting or lack of anything better to do. I tell them to stop stalking and they respond by MORE stalking. It's insane, pathetic, and highly disruptive. Hope you can help. Thanks. LBear08 ( talk) 19:10, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
First off, Yes! While L8ear08 seems similar to my name obviously and all of that, *I* personally have never signed in as that to the best of my recollection. Even if say I'd accidentally created two similar accounts and somehow don't remeber it, the problem is that the L8ear08 account makes edits to pages like "list of famous bisexuals" and Bjork, two topics of which I have no knowledge nor interest and especially would not be editing. So how can that be me? I don't know what's going on with the L8ear08 account (glitch? copycat?), but I am LBear08 not L8ear08. If I'd forgotten to sign in then one of those IPs could be mine, but the rest can't all be mine for goodness sakes and I'm tired of being hunted and having someone on my back (who is not an admin) 24/7. I just want to contribute to a few pages in peace as best I can. I just want this person to DROP IT and move on. Look back at how long ago that sock crap was posted and look at today's date and this user is STILL going on about it. At what point does it become deemable as harassment?
Second, no. My disemvowelmeant was in retaliation to THEIR constant doing so over the last several days (see their talk page and notice how they've been at it for awhile whereas my disemvowelment I JUST did today to prove the point of how obnoxious it is. That user is only in the clear when they stop harassing me. At what point will they stop with the accusations and stalking? LBear08 ( talk) 19:38, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
I'd also like to add, all of this began b/c of a previous disagreement we'd had. Awhile later I decided I wanted to go back to that discussion page and remove my own comments as I had no desire for petty argument to remain up like that. I never should have sunk to their bickering level. So I removed my own comments. This user then decides it's their right and priveledge to dictate what I can and can't remove that I myself contributed (to a talk page mind you, NOT the article which I know cannot be edited like that). I simply was trying to demonstrate maturity and obtain peace and the user wanted all disagreements to remain, all of their baseless accusations to remain, etc. for no valid reason. I've attempted peaceful resolution and suggested he/she delete their accusations and I my retaliated comments. However, they refuse...and for no reason whatsoever. I simply want resolution and then to be left alone by this user. LBear08 ( talk) 19:46, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Of course. No more disemvoweling from me, I find it obnoxious as heck so I'd never want to do it again anyway. As for the user issue, you can believe whatever you'd like, but I am telling you that I am NOT and never have been user L8ear08. I have no idea what that user is about or doing (copycatting for kicks?) but it has nothing to do with me. Now as for the discussion pages, I would love that to be the resolution...for us to remove our interactions (or at least my own), but up until now Mdsummermsw has been completely uncooperative on that front and continues on about it hence my feeling of being stalked and harassed. If they would agree, that would be great. LBear08 ( talk) 20:04, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
There has been no stalking or harassment. LBear08 wants an old conversation removed from the Talk page and Talk page archives of Talk:Michelle Rodriguez, and has been removing the conversation in violation of policy. When the other involved editor reverted the removal, LBear08 incorrectly characterized this as "stalking." (Note that other editors have reverted the removal as well) While I believe the Talk page content in question could theoretically be removed without harm to the project, I would not feel good about doing so without the consent of all involved parties, and that has proved unattainable. Ultimately, LBear08's removal of Talk page content is in violation of policy, and if he/she resumes this behavior, it could result in a block.
Both involved editors engaged in disemvoweling, a highly uncivil and disruptive practice that is clearly prohibited on Wikipedia talk pages. Both editors have been warned and agreed not to do so again. If either editor engages in disemvoweling again, it could result in a block with little or no warning.
There are very valid suspicions of sockpuppetry on the part of LBear08 ( User:L8ear08, nearly identical username, similar editing pattern) but as the alleged sock account does not appear to have been used disruptively or to evade a block, I would prefer not to comment on it at this time.
I was unable to find a compromise between these two users. However, I am marking the thread as "Resolved" anyway because there is no outstanding issue that needs attention. There is no ongoing content dispute, and both users have ceased their objectionable behavior. I strongly suggest that both editors move on with their lives. -- Jaysweet ( talk) 14:29, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Let me just point out to both of you how sad it is that you are edit warring over a talk page archive. Nobody reads the freaking archive, trust me. I have changed the status of this from "Resolved" to "Stuck". I still do not see anything actionable.
Mdsummermsw, if you are gung ho on seeing some action taken about LBear08's alleged socks, file a report at WP:SSP. The talk page is not really the proper place for it anyway. I would encourage you to stop edit warring over the talk page archive, as it is just not worth it, regardless of whether policy is on your side, and you could find yourself in danger of WP:3RR.
LBear08, I would urge you just leave the talk page archive alone. Nobody is going to look at it anyway. What was said was said, there is no point in trying to erase it from history. The best way you can put this past you is to move on, not to insist on removing it from the talk page archive.
I just don't see what either of you want. It seems you both just want independent acknowledgment that the other person is a bigger jerk than you. Well, it's not going to happen, because you've both engaged in unproductive behavior during this dispute and quantifying who did it more is just not a useful exercise. Move on with your lives. -- Jaysweet ( talk) 18:17, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
You know what? Because I actually do have a life and cannot spend 5 to 10 (or more) hours a day, every day, editing and un-editing articles, in some attempt to win petty Wiki-wars, I will move on. Thank you Jaysweet for the time you've spent on this attempting to help me reach a peaceful resolution. It seemed pretty simple, alas turned out to be impossible. Clearly someone has to choose to let go of ego and step back. Apparently I'll be the one to do so. It is much appreciated the time you've spent on this though, despite the unfortunate results. Thanks again! :) LBear08 ( talk) 22:06, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Incivility on talkpage for User:Lester (16 May). -- Brendan [ contribs ] 08:57, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
I don't want to handle something aimed at me. Gwen Gale ( talk) 13:46, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
Incivility: User talk:Something X#Paramore. Particularly the If you want to waste time and the Alternatively, use common sense comments. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Something X ( talk • contribs) 17:40, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm not sure if this is the right place to bring this up, but I noticed that user User_talk:90.201.13.142 is making a number of changes without making edit summaries. I mentioned this issue to the user on their talk page, but they don't appear to be very open to suggestions. Tweisbach ( talk) 12:38, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
Is edit summary compulsory? I often omit, for a variety of reasons, eg
Peter jackson ( talk) 14:14, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
I've just spent the last six hours or so attempting to undo damage done by user:rollosmokes to various pages related to the 2009 DTV transition for US full-power television stations.
There are currently 1800 or so full-power US TV broadcasters using the 1953-era NTSC analog television system. Almost all are now simulcasting existing programming and additional digital subchannels using ATSC digital television in preparation for the federally-mandated shutdown of analogue full-power TV on February 17, 2009. Most will shut down the analogue transmitter and leave the digital facilities on their current frequency and power assignments; there are four or five hundred exceptions to this pattern. Digital stations on VHF band I will want to move to higher frequencies due to insanely-low power limits on low-VHF DTV. Stations above channel 51 will be forced to move to lower frequencies as the 700MHz band has been auctioned for other purposes, such as mobile phone operation and Qualcomm's channel 55 MediaFLO service. A few channels will be reassigned for emergency two-way radios.
This leaves WP:WikiProject Television Stations with the potentially-huge task of determining where these stations will move (many are returning to the original analogue channels, but there are exceptions) and finding a means to have the correct info appear in the infoboxes for these stations once all of this is over. Tracking down and updating five hundred local television broadcasters on February 2009 is not an option; the task is a large and time-consuming one, requiring that affected broadcasts be identified and FCC records be searched to extract the info from the relevant construction permits for each station.
There is about eight months left before the transition is over, so time to track down and update the infoboxes is limited. The changes are far-reaching, as categories (Channel XX television stations in the United States) and information on subchannels (one digital TV station can be carrying anywhere from two to five different programmes from different networks at the same time on the same carrier) are all affected in some manner by the transition.
The {{ Infobox Broadcast}} is used to generate the infobox on most of the articles in question; it lists, among other things, the analogue and digital channel assignments for each station along with power, antenna height, network affiliations, ownership and various other vital statistics. An approach of listing the current channel assignments (digital_temporary) alongside the final ones (digital) was tried and various changes were made to this initial draft in response to comments from others on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Television Stations. These efforts are being hindered by this user's constant revert wars in which he repeatedly overwrites the templates with an outdated version. He also has repeatedly [39] [40] been removing information from large numbers of individual articles regarding final channel assignments and re-inserting incorrect information on subchannels (Annex B to the ATSC65/C spec on psip.org is clear that a channel with "13 analogue, 61 UHF digital" must number its digital subchannels 13.1, 13.2... and not "13.1/61.1 PBS", for instance.)
There have been complaints before, including one dispute (see User talk:TV9) where this user carried on a lengthy revert war over capitalisation of brands such as "The CW" and another in which a long series of consecutive reversions were made with inflammatory edit summaries such as "(Undid revision 209145341 by A Man In Black THIS IS A PROTEST REVERTION)" [41]. He has also been spamming user and user talk pages with WP:SOCK allegations, typically directed against anyone who attempts to undo the damage he's been doing and with no evidence provided to back up any of the accusations. If the affected users attempt to revert this nonsense, he starts another revert war.
In one particularly egregious case, he made four consecutive reversions to WP:RFPP [42] [43] [44] [45] removing a response to his demands for {{ Infobox Broadcast}} to be locked at a revision that would list the final DTV allocation for many stations in place of the current one. WP:RFPP itself was briefly protected sysop-only to stop his disruptions there. While he has attempted to plead ignorance on templates on at least one occasion, he has been an active WP editor since January 2006 and should know better.
As he does have some legitimate contributions, administrators so far have issued warnings but no blocks. If he were to participate constructively instead of undoing large amounts of work done to deal with the upcoming DTV transition and launch into pointless edit wars and accusations in which anyone who crosses him is WP:SOCK, WP:VANDAL or worse, he would be capable of making a legit and valuable contribution to the TV station wikiproject. He's been here for a while and, whatever his claims to the contrary, does know his way around here.
However, his removals of information on digital television deployment in his country need to stop. No one is going to make the effort to dig out final DTV assignments and station information on four to five hundred terrestrial broadcasters and get the info into the encyclopædia in time for February 17, 2009 analog shutoff if he continues to disrupt the process by deleting info from pages and breaking the infoboxes. I estimate that, were one person to attempt to get the missing info into the pages before transition, the time required would be at least one week of full-time effort, maybe more. It's no small task.
Meanwhile, the information needs to be there, and there is a de-facto eight month federally-imposed deadline. We're not going to get there unless the disruptions cease, and even then there's some risk that the cleanup of the mess that is US DTV transition will be a lengthy and labour-intensive process. -- carlb ( talk) 00:32, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Generalmesse ( talk · contribs) has posted identical abusive comments directed against me at [46] and [47] after I removed links to WW2 Axis propaganda he'd added to the external links sections of these articles. Could an uninvolved editor please warn him about this incivility? Thanks, Nick Dowling ( talk) 06:23, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Mareklug ( talk · contribs) has repeatedly been incivil toward me despite my requests to stop. He also refuses to WP:AGF and questions my motives without justification. See these diffs: 1, 2, 3, 4. I would appreciate administrator intervention. Thanks. Tennis expert ( talk) 11:12, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Keeps adding a SPA tag to all of my edits. Only because he disagrees with my opinions here. My first post was tagged and that's fine, but every post does not need to be tagged just because my opinion differs with his. -- BurpTheBaby ( talk) 03:50, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
As I see it, there was no need for user Alientraveller ( talk · contribs) to use sarcasm in his removal of my RFC on http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Talk:Transformers_2:_Revenge_of_the_Fallen&action=history.
I am an inexperienced editor who did not know what an Edit Conflict is and still does not, because no explanation was given. Nevertheless, I was not impolite in my creation of the RFC (which I still think is valid and not appropriate for a single editor to remove - comments welcome) and do not think the use of sarcasm was justified.
I would appreciate any thoughts and apologise if this is not the correct thing to do. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.2.32.31 ( talk • contribs) 17:58, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
In the AfD for Koboi labs, and anon IP (67.68.33.180) posted a most distasteful comment, which is a clear ad-hominem attack that I feel clearly constitutes bigotry and is clearly unacceptable under the personal attacks policy as it as an epithet against a person with a history of disabilities. The actual diff is here. I strongly suspect (without proof) this is the article's creator unhappy about the AfD. I am not asking for action to be taken against the user, as I have already issued a level two warning against the IP, and I am aware this would be a silly request for checkuser. I am simply requesting the community's approval to remove the text added in that diff from the AfD discussion. I am loathe to modify the comments of another in an AfD, no matter how invective or bigoted, and am doubly so since they were directed against me. I find WP:RPA of no guidance here, and feel that Process is important. I am therefore not comfortable unilaterally removing the invective from an active AfD discussion. Thus, before I just go and remove the comment, I am asking the community's leave to do so here. AubreyEllenShomo ( talk) 22:09, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
This user is very uncivil toward new contributors, and has also been warned several times before. He ignores any and all comments posted on his talk page, and is also uncivil in edit comments, calling users "idiots" and "preschoolers". I left a civil comment on his userpage explaining why I felt something should have been included in an article, however, he ignored it and posted a rather harsh comment on my talkpage and threatened to report me. Proof may be found on his talk page here, also here, his comment on my talk page, and here as well. Thank you. -- SWJS: The All Knowing Destroy All Humans! Nerd( Cortex Scan) 18:45, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
I have been subject to regular insults, impugning of character, and refusal to avoid direct questions asked directly regarding the content of an article William Melmoth on that articles talk page and archived talk page, and the editor's talk page, by the editor above named. I wish him to receive formal warning from another party that such behavior is not acceptable. John Carter ( talk) 19:53, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
This and this and this. Ottava Rima ( talk) 13:09, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
A simple editing dispute at Self-replicating machine was escalated to a revert war - then the user went 'off the deep end' on the talk page of that article (See the end of Talk:Self-replicating_machine#Photo and text additions). I made an attempt to calm him down and explain 'why his statements were deeply offensive (although they were clearly aimed at me very carefully by reading my User: page). But his most recent remark (at time of writing) was:
I should explain that Charles Micheal Collins appears to own a patent which I suggested was invalid due to prior art. I don't see how this constitutes an "attack".
This user edits about 50% of the time using User:71.114.30.158 - so if a block is to be considered, both that account and User:AvantVenger would need to be included.
I trust we can take speedy action - because this just went beyond reasonable limits.
Thanks in advance.
SteveBaker ( talk) 05:10, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Not only are you stupid and do not know one iota about what you are talking about on patents BUT YOU STARTED IT BY ATTACKING CHARLES MICHAEL COLLINS. I don't expect the rabble to be much smarter, particularly throngs of bleeding heart trash open source pigs who steal music, books, movies and inventions. All of you can go right to HELL! AvantVenger ( talk) 07:20, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
I now believe that AvantVenger is the real-world person Charles Collins (stripping out email address - Risker) - who appears to be the indefinitely-banned User:Fraberj. My evidence is here User_talk:AvantVenger#Is_AvantVenger_really_Charles_Collins.3F. I trust we have an admin here who knows what to do next! SteveBaker ( talk) 04:50, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
I have a pair of editors - user:OrangeMarlin and user:ScienceApologist - who are defending what seems to me to be a particularly biased version of the page. they refuse to respond to questions, and have used insults and personal attacks to back up their reverts of my edits see this link and this. they do not seem to be willing to discuss any compromise. this behavior also spills over into other pages.
I admit that my edits are broad, but I also think they are justified.
I have a separate RfC out for comments on the page to deal with the edit difference, but I would like an independent discussion of their behavior as well, because they are both tremendously biased and heartily rude.
thanks! -- Ludwigs2 05:33, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
Ludwigs and Restepc: Please remember that this page is for Wikiquette issues (civility, etc.), not for content disputes. Frankly, I am not touching the content dispute over alternative medicine, and I must say that I very much admire ScienceApologist and OrangeMarlin for the tireless work they do in this and other similar arenas. Frankly, if I did what they did for even a week, I would be driven to quit Wikipedia.
You mention insults, but I don't see them offhand and I am not going to read through Talk:Alternative medicine, dear god no. If there are specific remarks you are objecting to, please provide "diffs" (the instructions for doing so are outlined here) of the comments in question, and we can judge them in context to see if OM or SA have crossed the line. (While I said I admire those guys, I have no prejudice either way about whether they may have behaved in an incivil manner at some point. Happens to the best of us, and if they have, they will be warned to stop.)
Unless there are specific insults that you can point to, I am inclined to label this a "content dispute" and suggest that the RfC you already filed is the best way to proceed. -- Jaysweet ( talk) 13:01, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
A recent Arbcom ruling that occurred shortly after the above comments has prohibited Martinphi from participating in any discussion surrounding ScienceApologist with which he was not originally involved, so I am closing this discussion. There is nothing more to add, please do not comment further. Thank you. -- Jaysweet ( talk) 14:05, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
The abovementioned user harrassed me about "flag removal from certain pages" which he won't or maybe can't even specifically mention. The fact is, the last flag which I might have removed from any article was probably more than two weeks ago. This is his message to me just now on my talkpage which I had deleted. I double check back at this user-talk page and found that he was embroiled in some kind of mess with another Administrator, that I won't want to get involved in for obvious reasons. Quite frankly, this gives me the impression that he might be taking things out on me for no valid reason(s). On another note, I had dropped the same user a wiki-smile ( mentioned here) about two months back and he seem quite unhappy about it even though I tried to be civil with him. Appreciate if maybe some admin can help me get this guy off my back, thank you. -- Dave1185 ( talk) 04:40, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
What can be done about these kind of comments - Revert: the point is to help readers--not masturbate over ideology, You are both acting like total jerks. Please stop edit warring? Few months ago I tried to contact him on his talk page but he removed my comment with edit summary remove POV warrior spam. -- Vision Thing -- 17:07, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
I have been receiving raging and extremely profane messages, edit summaries, and such from Blogsd. They're referenced here [48]. It started with calling me an idiot, then progressed to further insults and profanity.
I've done a little digging in the last few minutes and discovered I'm not the only person he's been calling an idiot [49]. He's also reverting editors' edits for reasons that I can't comprehend, like stating that wikilinking to the article on Oman is vandalism to be stopped at all costs [50], and that wikilinking to the article on the Toronto Star newspaper is vandalism [51]. I believe I need assistance. Brilliant Pebble ( talk) 19:59, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
to be very Polite as wikipedia standard i m extreme sorry i beg ur pardon that i dont care about ur worrring . new u can block me as i already back up all text i need in my wikipedia profile. but i m affred u cant block me permanently . block my id i will creat new one . block my ip . i m using dynamic id here. block my 1st 4 digit of IP ( which u cant do it for permanently for obious reason) i change my ISP . i will use cyber cafe which will use entirely new IP . so do wateva u wanna do , do it dude. u can now block my id thnx . will see u with a new id saonara Contact
“ | Stay here. I'll be back. | ” |
— Terminator version T101 |
--
I got another uncivil post to my talk page, stating that he would use sockpuppets, that was left after Jaysweet warned this user. (Part of that same threat to use socks is repeated by Blogsd above this comment, in the form of the Terminator quote.) As recommended, I have opened a new section on WP:ANI: Wikipedia:ANI#User:Blogsd. Brilliant Pebble ( talk) 04:00, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
This users last edit summary on an edit to David Irving was "It's evident this article is tightly controlled by a gang of angry Jews. I'm not just accusing. See their profiles-might have to look at their page history. can't reason with em. tis unacceptable.)". I find this sort of language troubling and inappropriate for Wikipedia (or anywhere else for that matter). For the record I have edited David Irving, and I'm not Jewish. I don't want to bite newbies, and this is only this users second edit. But can someone not involved in the article, and familiar with whatever our rules on civility are please have a look. Jonathan Cardy ( talk) 05:56, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
I believe User:Pixelface's current behavior (starting approximately on June 6) on the RFC for determining whether the current version of Notability (fiction) has global consensus is out of line for civility for behavior expected of editors, particularly in an area of heated concern.
I will admin the topic is a very sore one, as it hits right at the center of the emotional inclusionists/deletionists issue. I am fully aware of Pixelface's views and respect those views for what they are, and I can understand the frustration behind seeing what you strongly believe in be overwhelmed by others.
However, the method by which Pixelface is approach this debate seems like it's trying to seem who can shout the loudest to make their point overly clear. There's no specific diff that exemplifies this behavior, though telling people "they're wrong", bringing up a point that doesn't apply to the specific section of the discussion while pulling from the user's history to try to prove them wrong, assuming bad faith, repeating the same points over and over and even trying to shut down the consensus process before it can begin. There's at least 30 other editors at that page and over 200 edits since the 6th, and no one else seems to be taking the same aggressive defensive stance that Pixelface is, and the atmosphere the comments generate is not healthy to good discussion.
If this is not considered uncivil behavior, then I apologize to Pixelface for the inconvenience and will drop this matter. -- MASEM 03:14, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Pixelface's editing behavior is bordering on Tendentious editing (or has already crossed this line), and while not necessarily uncivil in the usual sense, it is extremely tiring in a plonk-worthy sense. S/he has also started disputetagging WP:NOT in the last few days again (with prompt reverts), which had caused much drama at WP:NOT and ANI in the last two months before. I endorse Masem's summary that "the atmosphere the comments generate is not healthy to good discussion." Just to make clear, this note here is not intended to single out Pixelface as the only culprit, but very few editors have had what I perceive as similar bad track records for heating already heated discussions. – sgeureka t• c 13:35, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
If you guys actually want a 3rd-party opinion on this issue, I suggest you take WP:TLDR into account. I for one don't have the time to sort through all of this mess ;p :) -- Jaysweet ( talk) 16:00, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Here is another case of what I certainly believe to be tenatious and uncivil editing. On WT:NOT, Pixelface has posted the same basic arguments with the same links to AFDs to support the point in a matter of 3 hours (not accounting for the fact that Pixelface has used the same points repeated in the same discussion thread or elsewhere on NOT): first time, second time, third. It's one thing to stick to your guns for something you believe in, but this type of discussion is not helpful to reaching a conclusion. -- MASEM 02:25, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
I thought it would be worth summarizing my findings, in support of the compromise proposal below.
-- Jaysweet ( talk) 15:42, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
In partial response to Jaysweet:
Best, -- Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles Tally-ho! 16:38, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Ooo, just when I was about to give up, there is some hope!
Pixelface, as per above, would you agree to create one or more essays in your user space which summarize your main points, and then rather than constantly reiterate them on WT:FICT whenever a new participant shows up, you can just provide a one- or two-sentence reply directing them to your essay? -- Jaysweet ( talk) 14:44, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
User:Pmanderson has continued to repeatedly utilize personal attacks against me, after being asked several times by myself and others to desist.
I believe his reasoning is an interpretation that I accused him of being racist ( further confirmed here). I attempted to clarify that it was his comment of "we are not here to incorporate the POV of the Japanese General Staff" to which I objected.
Examples of his attacks include the following links: [69] [70] [71] [72] [73] [74] [75] [76] [77] [78] [79] [80] [81] [82] [83] [84] [85] [86] [87] [88]
Requests for him to desist in such activity can be found at the following links: [89] [90] [91]
Any feedback would be appreciated. Oberiko ( talk) 01:47, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Really? I do not see how, at the least, the following are not personal attacks:
Oberiko ( talk) 11:02, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
My reasons for calling Oberiko a liar are summarized here: not only his misrepresentation of other editor's comments, but his reading of the sources. He cites as opposition to 1939 a source which says The Second World War opened with the assault on Poland. There are various less damaging explanations for this, including difficulty with English, and in longer discussions, I have considered them. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 00:52, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
User has been bullying other users at Wikipedia:Requested moves/Tennis for days on end now, while burying other people's arguments under many repeats of the same long-winded rhetorics, against the prevailing consensus. Guido den Broeder ( talk) 13:13, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Ok, to help out, without going too much into the exact theme of that discussion. Jaysweet, don't feel bad ;), that discussion is at a state now that makes it very, very difficult to catch up. The general theme is actually very similar to
this discussion, currently ongoing at the talk page of WP:BLP. That is, what is the extent of community discretion to discredit common usage, once verified, on the basis of unverifiable assertions by users. Particularly, if we are seeing common usage in English-language sources, which would define the title of our article, is it valid for us to claim that all the sources are "wrong" and decide that Wikipedia will right that wrong? My answer to that has been no, because that would be original research and point of view. On the tennis discussion, people are now claiming that they have consensus to retain status quo. We had consensus in a previous discussion to move, but then this consensus was considered "insufficient". I didn't mind. Then, of course,
canvassing
started to take place. I have also explained that, unless it can be established that shuning verified common usage on whichever ground that is based on user assertion is not original research and point of view, it will mean that we cannot have localized consensus to authorize that, because we have a more significant consensus, established in
WP:OR,
WP:V and
WP:NPOV, that says that those are non-negotiable in writing the encyclopedia — so far, people have actually admitted that the sources will indeed show common usage without diacritics, but that that's meaningless for [whatever reason] -- that's not negating OR and POV, that's continuing to give unverifiable reasons why we should ignore the sources, that is, OR and POV..
Now, I have indeed been posting more vehemently, but the purpose of this, and it has been clearly stated, is not to "bury" anyone, but rather to cause discussion. Otherwise, what we have is people coming over and saying "oppose because removing diacritics proves only that no author had a properly configured keyboad". That's not the only claim made, of course, but it is actually one of them. Was that ideal? No more than the alternative would have been: have people "vote" and then claim that, by headcount, there is consensus to maintain [what is essentially] original research and POV. They can, of course, attempt to establish that it is not. That is why we need discussion, not voting. But people only wanted to vote, as it was done in other occasions when diacritics and spellings were discussed. In the discussion that I have been able to provoke, some people have been personally offended for being told that they are wrong, which is all I have done; they have also been
refusing to get the point and then insisting that there is no point in discussing it further, calling my counter-argumentation "bulying".
Redux (
talk) 18:15, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
BTW, I would encourage those involved to read WP:WQA#Findings by Jaysweet (talk · contribs), as well as WP:WQA#Findings by Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles (talk · contribs) above -- except, replace "Masem" with "Guido den Broder", replace "Pixelface" with "Redux", replace "Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles" with "Tennis expert", and replace " WT:FICT" with " Wikipedia:Requested moves/Tennis". It's essentially the same exact problem... -- Jaysweet ( talk) 17:18, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
I fully agree that repetitive posting is not the best way to conduct discussion. Except in this case, were it not for repetitive posting, there would have been no discussion at all. We had seen how discussions on this and other similar topics have taken place: there is canvassing, and many users show up sustaining a "oppose" — thus dragging the process into a vote-like situation — per [whatever reason]. Since we define filibuster as jamming the airways to prevent debate, we might say that canvassing is the filibuster in this situation.
So how to try and break this trend? I thought a way to do that was to respond to people individually, because that would probably cause at least a few of them to engage in actual discussion, where they would need to be able to sustain their rationale convincingly. What would be the alternative? Certainly not wait until 15 people, who knows how many "canvassed" (is that a word?), have posted "oppose because Wikipedia can't disrespect x culture" and, after a while, make an umbrella post deconstructing the rationale, when people have already moved on and are probably not even monitoring the discussion anymore. And then what? Count signatures and see which "side" has the most supporters? That's a vote (and a questionable one at that, if there has been canvassing), not a discussion.
Redux (
talk) 15:16, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
This page is an archive. Do not edit the contents of this page. Please direct any additional comments to the current main page. |
My discussion with him over the article Steven Chayer has been kind and level-headed. He is condescending and rude and wants to be an Administrative Editor.
Drewhamilton ( talk) 06:33, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
Please help me with this guy.
[1] He's mean and on a power trip and he knows it because I pointed out how mean-spirited and unessecary something he had on his user page was and he A) Deleted my comment in the Articles for Deletion discussion
[2] over an article I wrote "Steven Chayer" B) He edited his user page to removed the stuff on his user page I had pointed out as mean and needless.
Drewhamilton (
talk) 19:52, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
User Finisklin ( talk · contribs · logs) has added references or external links to at least 12 different articles (see diffs, below), all to content written by one Cormac Burke. He has done so seemingly without concern for whether this person is an notable authority on the relevant subject or whether the linked resource is appropriate to the article, leading me to believe he is engaging in linkspamming. I am not certain he understands that his actions are questionable, and I have opened discussions with him on his talk page, but it feels like continuing the discussion would sap more of my energy than I'd like to sacrifice. I'm hoping someone else can back me up on this.
Diffs: [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8], [9], [10], [11], [12], [13], [14], [15]. Note that these comprise all but one of his article-space edits.
Ilkali ( talk) 13:45, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
Thanks to whichever volunteers handle issues at this page, I hope you find your work rewarding.
I've been tolerating provocative rudeness by User:Ilkali at Talk:Gender of God for some time now. Mainly I've ignored it, and stuck to answering nit-picking challenges and Wikilawyering. Eventually, I worked out it was trolling of some kind and I shouldn't feed it. I gave notice of withdrawing from discussion and explained why.
Now, however, this user is actually insisting on removing a reply I have given as part of a very long standing discussion to another user, who is currently absent. I have given warnings and finally a 3RR warning. Personally, I'd rather the user just chooses to be more civil, and allow things that irk him to stand; but how can I continue interacting with another long standing editor on this page, if a third party deletes my replies? Or am I to understand I can edit talk pages as well as articles and delete comments I think are inappropriate?
It seems to me we need to be even more generous in what we allow in talk pages than we do in articles. Where would we be if people had the right to delete talk page posts they disagreed with? Does this user have the right to remove my comment here?
Sorry to trouble you, but I've spent a long time talking an important issue through with User:Andowney and we actually seem to be getting to the end of it at last. But now Ilkali has deleted my reply. :( Alastair Haines ( talk) 15:50, 26 May 2008 (UTC)
The user left a personal attack on the talk page of another blocked user. I left a friendly note on his talk page, which was promptly deleted without explanation. I'm fully aware that the contents of talk pages can be deleted as is the wish of the user, but sensing that he might get the message if a proper warning was left, I posted a uw-npa1 warning on his page. This, too, was promptly deleted. The user then threatened to report me for harassment. Any chance of an admin dropping him a line in relation to WP:CIVILITY? Thanks. -- Schcambo aon scéal? 16:08, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
Marking as resolved because there is no instance of a personal attack at user talk:Sarah777, and a user is allowed to remove comments from his own talk page. seicer | talk | contribs 18:28, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
This user, recently warned and then blocked for making offensive remarks against me, has resumed his attacks. Here, here, here, here, here and here he goads and prods me, insinuating dark motives on my part. Let me elaborate: I noted at Template:Romanian historical regions that certain regions were part of Romania in 1941-44, which in fact they were. Now, how exactly the template should be constructed is open to interpretation. What is, however, completely unacceptable is that Xasha, despite his recent block and warning, and despite my pointing out to him repeatedly that he is violating AGF, CIV and NPA, accuses me of "trying to legitimize Operation Barbarossa" - the Nazi German invasion of the USSR, in which Romania's fascist wartime regime also took part. Obviously these are very serious, but also entirely baseless charges. I have asked Xasha to withdraw the charge, to comment on content rather than on the editor, to stop attempting to smear my good name, but all to no avail. It is not up to him to air his "impression" and "supposition" that I am "trying to legitimize Operation Barbarossa", but if I can't convince him of that through discussion, then it only remains to me to seek a more formal means of clearing my name. Biruitorul Talk 19:38, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm not touching this one with a ten-foot pole -- but for whoever does, this arbitration case is relevant. Basically, Xasha is one of a number of editors who is on a very short leash on any articles relating to Eastern Europe... -- Jaysweet ( talk) 20:34, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Since this has already been escalated to WP:ANI and involves past arbitration rulings, there's nothing that can be done about it here. Please don't forum shop. -- Jaysweet ( talk) 20:42, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Hello, on the talk page of the PlaneShift (video game) article, a URL keeps getting reinserted that I have an issue with. I very rarely edit people's comments, but my problem with the URL is that it has a link to a 6.4MB binary that is being presented as allowing users to cheat in the game. Nobody will download it because it's a binary, and in my opinion, we do not need to have such URLs in the talk namespace that have the potential to hurt people's systems. Obviously, WP:EL#AVOID would disallow it in the article namespace for the same reason. Up to now, I've been taking the liberty of removing the URL to this download page as to what WP:TALK and WP:EL#AVOID allow me to do, and I've also seeked out a second opinion on Wikipedia's offtopic IRC channel from some editors that are more established than I am before continuing to do so, yet the URL keeps getting reinserted and I fail to see why it should ever be in the talk namespace. I don't know what else I can do on the talk page without promoting incivility there; thus I now seek a third opinion to be posted on the talk page. Tuxide ( talk) of WikiProject Retailing 12:33, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
Sure, sixie.
This is a classic problem with borderline notable subjects on Wikipedia. There are only a handful of 3rd-party publications that even mention the subject, so it is impossible to get a really objective feel for how to fairly balance the positives and negatives that are presented.
With the risk of someone pointing out to me that WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS, I think the article already has too much primary source detail. The "Setting" section is okay, but the various subsections (particularly the one about the death zone or whatever) are a bit overly-detailed. The entire "Gameplay" section is way too detailed. From an encyclopedic standpoint, this is a MMORPG focused on roleplay, and that's about all we need to know.
If the article were trimmed down so it didn't have so much borderline-relevant primary source material, I imagine the lack of mention of the cheating exploits would not seem so glaringly absent.
To put it a different way, I don't feel comfortable adding the material that Sixie proposes because it relies too much on original interpretation of primary sources. But I feel like if I say that, we also have to admit that most of the existing article has a similar problem.
I'm not sure exactly what to do, but those are my thoughts about it. -- Jaysweet ( talk) 16:49, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
Thomasalazar ( talk · contribs) is removing tags without the tag task being completed. I asked him nicely to cite sources, and he just reverts the tags and blanks his user page to all comments by me and other users.
I feel that if I re-tag the article, he will just revert again. I know that he is young, maybe 18, but he is in his own world, and doesn't want to play by any rules. I am going to add the tags back, but wanted to complete this first.
~ WikiDon ( talk) 20:40, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
ETC, ETc, Etc, etc,.....
At this point, I would recommend taking it to WP:SSP to report the suspected sockpuppetry if anyone wants to force the issue. As I say, the removal of tags in this case is basically simple vandalism, and should be treated as such (an "unreferenced" tag on an article with one or two references is controversial, but on an article with zero references there is no room for debate). And as far as the sockpuppetry, we don't have the tools or authority to deal with that here. Best of luck! -- Jaysweet ( talk) 13:43, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
I would like suggestions or assistance in dealing with posts like this - playing games and teasing do not help build a page. I am hardly an innocent here. WLU ( talk) 22:55, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
I'd like some advice in addressing a dispute I have been having with User:Sanitycult regarding Master Mahan. In the past few days, Sanitycult announced on the talk page that s/he would be removing some material from the article that was the subject of some dispute in April. I, thinking that this issue was positively resolved in April, made a post suggesting that it need not be deleted and gave a brief summary of what I understood to be the outcome from the April dispute. Through an IP address, Sanitycult accused me of inserting "(my) bigoted views" into every paragraph of the article and of having a "personal crusade" regarding the article and that s/he would remove the material s/he objected to. I responded to his/her points, and included a suggestion that s/he not accuse anyone of bigotry as it could be interpreted as a personal attack.
Sanitycult then responded with this post, where s/he said, among other things: "you appear to be unable to read"; "What the hell is your agenda?"; "you seem to be reading the [disputed reference] shit a little to deeply as your logic is falling apart at the seams". In my response I've tried to respond nicely, but I'm becoming a bit distressed both about Sanitycult's incivility to me and his/her unwillingness to wait for the comments of other editors on the question in dispute. Even in his/her first post announcing the changes, s/he called two religious groups that oppose one another "bible-thumping retards", which I didn't feel was particularly constructive.
Over the past 24 hours or so, Sanitycult has deleted the information three times, and I have restored it twice and asked numerous times, including on the user's talk page, if we could reach consensus via input from other editors before the changes are made. In his/her most recent edit summary, s/he has accused me of "vandalizing" the article with my "personal agenda".
Thanks in advance for any assistance/advice that can be offered. Good Ol’factory (talk) 04:12, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
This user, recently taken before Arbitration Enforcement (see here) and consequently blocked for incivility, persists in making the same charges that brought about that block. It's this paragraph I'm referring to: "Racist comments... open ethno-racist remarks are made by User:Biruitorul". This is false, offensive, inflammatory and an attempt at character assassination. I will not stand to be called an "ethno-racist" by this user, and I have made it clear that every instance of this will be dealt with by a report to an official forum. This is just the latest. I'm not seeking for Moldopodo to be blocked or what have you - I merely want an apology and an assurance that such language will not be addressed to me in the future by him. Biruitorul Talk 20:46, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
A question, etiquette related too. To how many boards and how many times did Biru posted complaints lately on his content opponents. I lost track but a full disclosure would come handy. -- Irpen 23:04, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
This is User:SportsMaster. I have a case of Wikistalk with GoHuskies9904. He has been editing article I have created almost exclusively. For a small portion of the list of articles he has done this to see the following. Homer E. Woodling [16], Robert F. Busbey [17], Weird U.S. [18], 2004 NBA All-Star Game [19], 1997 NBA All-Star Game [20], 1981 NBA All-Star Game [21], 1972 NBA All-Star Game [22], 1951 All-Star Game [23]. Please note that he did not mark any other NBA All-Star games as stubs (presumably because I didn't create them). Here are more examples. Vixen (RV), Dodge Meadowbrook, Suzuki FZ50, Waterloo Hawks, Waterloo Hawks all-time roster, Moondog (mascot), Whammer (mascot), Robert E. Hawkins, Yahoo! Sports, Yahoo! Fantasy Sports, 2007-08 Drake Bulldogs men's basketball team, Maxwell Show. It seems to me he carries a beef with me since I reverted his incorrect edit on 02:48, February 27, 2008 about the 2007-08 Drake Bulldogs men's basketball team. [24] Here is a listing of all of his edits [25] Please also take not that this has gone on for months at a time.
-- SportsMaster ( talk) 20:21, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
I do work well with others. You are one of the exceptions. You seemed to take offense to me reverting your edit here [26]. Since you then preceded to disregard my comments I left on your talk page about the 2007-08 Drake Bulldogs men's basketball team article. The source you were using was a Seinfeld script, which HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH DRAKE BULLDOGS BASKETBALL, which I explained in my above comment. [27] Then you couldn’t seem to comprehend the comment I left you and wanted to get into an edit war over it. You also then left me this comment, which is TOTALLY uncivilized. [28] You then wouldn’t leave the article alone until another person agreed with me. [29] Then you proceeded to wait a few months (presumably thinking I wouldn't watch the page then (which I was)) and got into another edit war over it. [30]. You were once again proved incorrect. [31] Since you do started off by disregarding my comments I left on your talk page about the 2007-08 Drake Bulldogs men's basketball team article you seemed to want to get revenge by going through my edit history, and mainly my user page, which I have subsequently blanked for the very reasons and nominating numerous articles for deletion to annoy me and waste my time. Also once again Jaysweet he makes no mention of why he almost never contributes anything on his own, GoHuskies almost only nominates articles for deletion (stuff I have worked hard on and spent a great deal of time on). Without contributing anything on his own. Which he still has yet to address. You sir are the one who does not work well with others. After the afore mentioned totally uncivilized comment, I had good reason to not want to communicate with you at all. All this is taking an extreme amount of time and energy out of my day and is EXTREMLY frustrating. This has gone on for months and MUST CEASE. -- SportsMaster ( talk) 15:41, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
SM -- Aside from the Woodling/Busbey AfDs, what other articles have you created that you feel GH has nominated for AfD in bad faith? -- Jaysweet ( talk) 18:09, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Waterloo Hawks all-time roster. I finally just gave up and merged it, even though all other NBA teams have an all-time roster page. It also is one thing if he nomtinated other pages for deletion, but he dosn't, only mine. Ones that were listed on my userpage.Some articles might have been stubs that he nominated, but the fact is that information was going to be added, and he was the only person who had a big enough problem with it to nominate it for deletion. -- SportsMaster ( talk) 19:34, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Also note this [32] -- SportsMaster ( talk) 19:38, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
Keep in mind I posted my comment at 19:58. He made his nominations and changes, and then lied about the timestamps afterword. -- SportsMaster ( talk) 20:17, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
First, as to the matter of the falsified time stamps... The where GoHuskies suggested deleting all of the articles in the category occurred at 20:00 and the timestamp is accurate. SportsMaster's complaint here was posted at 19:58, so it did occur before GH's nomination of all the articles, but only just barely. It is impossible to tell whether this was made in good faith or not, so I will not comment on that.
GH did have one edit with incorrect timestamps, however, the false timestamp used was 20:02 (it should have been 20:09) which is after SM's complaint, so there is no nefarious reason for GH to have changed the timestamp in this matter. A much simpler (and more likely) explanation, especially when one looks at the diff, is that GH was editing/copy-and-pasting a previous edit, since the formatting of the new edit was largely the same, and happened to also copy-and-paste the timestamp rather than replacing it with tildes. I don't see any attempt to deceive here.
Regarding the merit of these AfDs, I would point out that there is precdent. See the deletion log here, where in 2006 this article was deleted because (surprise!) "high school sports conferences are not notable".
So, that's the good news for GoHuskies: I see no attempt to deceive, and the nominations are reasonable.
Now, the bad news for GoHuskies: I am increasingly concerned that there is a pattern here, based on your contribs. Even if 100% of your edits are constructive, if 75% of them are in relation to deleting articles created by SportsMaster, that's going to create conflict regardless of your intentions. I would urge you once again to back off from nominating articles created by SportsMaster, as I think it would be in everyone's best interests. In this case, as you pointed out, there are dozens of articles not created by SportsMaster that have the same notability problems. I would urge you in the future to begin by nominating those articles, and then if a consensus develops, perhaps other editors will volunteer to go through and tag all of the other non-notable high school sports conferences.
Even though your edits are constructive, they are having the effect of stirring the pot in regards to this conflict, and I worry about your intentions. I'm not exactly sure what to do. -- Jaysweet ( talk) 20:37, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
It's not blatant. All those pages are lists that are stubs that are already listed on the main Ohio page. No need for duplicate information. Let the voters decide and stop reporting people everytime you disagree with some one. I'm not deleting your work or anyother's work. I am leaving it up to 3rd and 4th parties to decide what to do with pages I think need to be deleted. That is all. Go vote, give your reason why they should stay and stop harassing me. If you keep reporting me, I will report you and I'm not the only user who has had issues with you. No one else has had them with me! So please, lets be civil. Did you read Kiefer's post? -- GoHuskies9904 ( talk) 20:39, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
It was blatant. You are the person who is nominating the articles causing a severe waste of my time. I am not harassing anyone. You can stop making yourself look like the victim here and now. YOU are the person who would not agree to Jaysweets idea of you ceasing to nominate articles I created for deletion. You chose not to agree to that, even though it was suitable for me. Once again you try to make it look like I am the one who is not civil here, but saying lets be civil. I am the person who has offered to talk to you online via AIM, and IRC, both of which you are declined by not responding to. I am not acting uncivil in the least bit, if anything lieing is very uncivil, which you have already done today on this page. -- SportsMaster ( talk) 20:57, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
a number of editors ( 4 or 5, I think, including myself ) have been making changes on the Buddhism page. one editor, who edits under both LuisGomez111 and Pasta4470, has been both consistently rude and disruptive. point by point:
see Talk:Buddhism#Intro_Revertsthis talk page post, and this, and this latest one, as well as others on the page...
I'm trying to reason with him, but I don't seem to be getting through. can someone assist? -- Ludwigs2 ( talk) 18:54, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
There are two editors on this article whose behavior I find disruptive: User:Ludwigs2 and User:Peter jackson. (I have a sneaking suspicion that Ludwigs2 is a sock puppet for Peter jackson.) Here are my complaints:
They attempt to control the article's content through reverts and large deletions. They challenge the most basic and widely accepted information on Buddhism. They seem much more interested in nitpicking and writing lengthy, critical comments on the talk page than in contributing to the article in a meaningful way. Please do something about this. LuisGomez111 ( talk) 19:26, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
The suggestion that Ludwigs is a sockpuppet of mine seems quite far-fetched. If Luis would bother to read the talk page he'd see that Ludwigs & I have been arguing with each other quite extensively.
Examination of the history will show that I've done very little reverting & deletion in the current dispute.
Yes, I "challenge the most basic and widely accepted information on Buddhism", because the reliable sources I cite show it's wrong or questionable. Everyone who's been working on WP for any length of time should have noticed that "widely accepted information" is often wrong. Peter jackson ( talk) 10:44, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm having difficulty discussing content issues with Nishidani, who is too interested in picking my grammar apart than the issues of concern. I recently requested him to stop and even suggested an alternative outlet but he noted his refusal. I would appreciate some external notice/comments to this issue since I am incapable of persuading him myself that his activity in this area is uncivil and offensive.
The thread:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Nishidani#English_woes
With respect,
Jaakobou
Chalk Talk 12:31, 3 June 2008 (UTC) clarify 12:32, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
What can I do to get user Mdsummermsw to stop following me around and trying to falsely attach me to other accounts, IPs, etc (see their talk page and the Michelle Rodriguez Discussion Archive page)? It's getting really old that this person reverts practically every edit I do, constantly makes accusations, and when I try to resolve the issue peacefully on their talk page, disemvowel my words, leaving only their own (again, see their talk page). They're behavior of psychotic research trying to prove some point that I am various others is disturbing and disruptive and I'm tired of it. At this point it's stalking, harassment, and slander. I just want to edit articles accurately, I don't want to be stalked and harassed 24/7 by someone who lives on Wikipedia every second of every day and makes it their goal to declare withchunts for no other reason than ego boosting or lack of anything better to do. I tell them to stop stalking and they respond by MORE stalking. It's insane, pathetic, and highly disruptive. Hope you can help. Thanks. LBear08 ( talk) 19:10, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
First off, Yes! While L8ear08 seems similar to my name obviously and all of that, *I* personally have never signed in as that to the best of my recollection. Even if say I'd accidentally created two similar accounts and somehow don't remeber it, the problem is that the L8ear08 account makes edits to pages like "list of famous bisexuals" and Bjork, two topics of which I have no knowledge nor interest and especially would not be editing. So how can that be me? I don't know what's going on with the L8ear08 account (glitch? copycat?), but I am LBear08 not L8ear08. If I'd forgotten to sign in then one of those IPs could be mine, but the rest can't all be mine for goodness sakes and I'm tired of being hunted and having someone on my back (who is not an admin) 24/7. I just want to contribute to a few pages in peace as best I can. I just want this person to DROP IT and move on. Look back at how long ago that sock crap was posted and look at today's date and this user is STILL going on about it. At what point does it become deemable as harassment?
Second, no. My disemvowelmeant was in retaliation to THEIR constant doing so over the last several days (see their talk page and notice how they've been at it for awhile whereas my disemvowelment I JUST did today to prove the point of how obnoxious it is. That user is only in the clear when they stop harassing me. At what point will they stop with the accusations and stalking? LBear08 ( talk) 19:38, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
I'd also like to add, all of this began b/c of a previous disagreement we'd had. Awhile later I decided I wanted to go back to that discussion page and remove my own comments as I had no desire for petty argument to remain up like that. I never should have sunk to their bickering level. So I removed my own comments. This user then decides it's their right and priveledge to dictate what I can and can't remove that I myself contributed (to a talk page mind you, NOT the article which I know cannot be edited like that). I simply was trying to demonstrate maturity and obtain peace and the user wanted all disagreements to remain, all of their baseless accusations to remain, etc. for no valid reason. I've attempted peaceful resolution and suggested he/she delete their accusations and I my retaliated comments. However, they refuse...and for no reason whatsoever. I simply want resolution and then to be left alone by this user. LBear08 ( talk) 19:46, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
Of course. No more disemvoweling from me, I find it obnoxious as heck so I'd never want to do it again anyway. As for the user issue, you can believe whatever you'd like, but I am telling you that I am NOT and never have been user L8ear08. I have no idea what that user is about or doing (copycatting for kicks?) but it has nothing to do with me. Now as for the discussion pages, I would love that to be the resolution...for us to remove our interactions (or at least my own), but up until now Mdsummermsw has been completely uncooperative on that front and continues on about it hence my feeling of being stalked and harassed. If they would agree, that would be great. LBear08 ( talk) 20:04, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
There has been no stalking or harassment. LBear08 wants an old conversation removed from the Talk page and Talk page archives of Talk:Michelle Rodriguez, and has been removing the conversation in violation of policy. When the other involved editor reverted the removal, LBear08 incorrectly characterized this as "stalking." (Note that other editors have reverted the removal as well) While I believe the Talk page content in question could theoretically be removed without harm to the project, I would not feel good about doing so without the consent of all involved parties, and that has proved unattainable. Ultimately, LBear08's removal of Talk page content is in violation of policy, and if he/she resumes this behavior, it could result in a block.
Both involved editors engaged in disemvoweling, a highly uncivil and disruptive practice that is clearly prohibited on Wikipedia talk pages. Both editors have been warned and agreed not to do so again. If either editor engages in disemvoweling again, it could result in a block with little or no warning.
There are very valid suspicions of sockpuppetry on the part of LBear08 ( User:L8ear08, nearly identical username, similar editing pattern) but as the alleged sock account does not appear to have been used disruptively or to evade a block, I would prefer not to comment on it at this time.
I was unable to find a compromise between these two users. However, I am marking the thread as "Resolved" anyway because there is no outstanding issue that needs attention. There is no ongoing content dispute, and both users have ceased their objectionable behavior. I strongly suggest that both editors move on with their lives. -- Jaysweet ( talk) 14:29, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Let me just point out to both of you how sad it is that you are edit warring over a talk page archive. Nobody reads the freaking archive, trust me. I have changed the status of this from "Resolved" to "Stuck". I still do not see anything actionable.
Mdsummermsw, if you are gung ho on seeing some action taken about LBear08's alleged socks, file a report at WP:SSP. The talk page is not really the proper place for it anyway. I would encourage you to stop edit warring over the talk page archive, as it is just not worth it, regardless of whether policy is on your side, and you could find yourself in danger of WP:3RR.
LBear08, I would urge you just leave the talk page archive alone. Nobody is going to look at it anyway. What was said was said, there is no point in trying to erase it from history. The best way you can put this past you is to move on, not to insist on removing it from the talk page archive.
I just don't see what either of you want. It seems you both just want independent acknowledgment that the other person is a bigger jerk than you. Well, it's not going to happen, because you've both engaged in unproductive behavior during this dispute and quantifying who did it more is just not a useful exercise. Move on with your lives. -- Jaysweet ( talk) 18:17, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
You know what? Because I actually do have a life and cannot spend 5 to 10 (or more) hours a day, every day, editing and un-editing articles, in some attempt to win petty Wiki-wars, I will move on. Thank you Jaysweet for the time you've spent on this attempting to help me reach a peaceful resolution. It seemed pretty simple, alas turned out to be impossible. Clearly someone has to choose to let go of ego and step back. Apparently I'll be the one to do so. It is much appreciated the time you've spent on this though, despite the unfortunate results. Thanks again! :) LBear08 ( talk) 22:06, 3 June 2008 (UTC)
Incivility on talkpage for User:Lester (16 May). -- Brendan [ contribs ] 08:57, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
I don't want to handle something aimed at me. Gwen Gale ( talk) 13:46, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
Incivility: User talk:Something X#Paramore. Particularly the If you want to waste time and the Alternatively, use common sense comments. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Something X ( talk • contribs) 17:40, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm not sure if this is the right place to bring this up, but I noticed that user User_talk:90.201.13.142 is making a number of changes without making edit summaries. I mentioned this issue to the user on their talk page, but they don't appear to be very open to suggestions. Tweisbach ( talk) 12:38, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
Is edit summary compulsory? I often omit, for a variety of reasons, eg
Peter jackson ( talk) 14:14, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
I've just spent the last six hours or so attempting to undo damage done by user:rollosmokes to various pages related to the 2009 DTV transition for US full-power television stations.
There are currently 1800 or so full-power US TV broadcasters using the 1953-era NTSC analog television system. Almost all are now simulcasting existing programming and additional digital subchannels using ATSC digital television in preparation for the federally-mandated shutdown of analogue full-power TV on February 17, 2009. Most will shut down the analogue transmitter and leave the digital facilities on their current frequency and power assignments; there are four or five hundred exceptions to this pattern. Digital stations on VHF band I will want to move to higher frequencies due to insanely-low power limits on low-VHF DTV. Stations above channel 51 will be forced to move to lower frequencies as the 700MHz band has been auctioned for other purposes, such as mobile phone operation and Qualcomm's channel 55 MediaFLO service. A few channels will be reassigned for emergency two-way radios.
This leaves WP:WikiProject Television Stations with the potentially-huge task of determining where these stations will move (many are returning to the original analogue channels, but there are exceptions) and finding a means to have the correct info appear in the infoboxes for these stations once all of this is over. Tracking down and updating five hundred local television broadcasters on February 2009 is not an option; the task is a large and time-consuming one, requiring that affected broadcasts be identified and FCC records be searched to extract the info from the relevant construction permits for each station.
There is about eight months left before the transition is over, so time to track down and update the infoboxes is limited. The changes are far-reaching, as categories (Channel XX television stations in the United States) and information on subchannels (one digital TV station can be carrying anywhere from two to five different programmes from different networks at the same time on the same carrier) are all affected in some manner by the transition.
The {{ Infobox Broadcast}} is used to generate the infobox on most of the articles in question; it lists, among other things, the analogue and digital channel assignments for each station along with power, antenna height, network affiliations, ownership and various other vital statistics. An approach of listing the current channel assignments (digital_temporary) alongside the final ones (digital) was tried and various changes were made to this initial draft in response to comments from others on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Television Stations. These efforts are being hindered by this user's constant revert wars in which he repeatedly overwrites the templates with an outdated version. He also has repeatedly [39] [40] been removing information from large numbers of individual articles regarding final channel assignments and re-inserting incorrect information on subchannels (Annex B to the ATSC65/C spec on psip.org is clear that a channel with "13 analogue, 61 UHF digital" must number its digital subchannels 13.1, 13.2... and not "13.1/61.1 PBS", for instance.)
There have been complaints before, including one dispute (see User talk:TV9) where this user carried on a lengthy revert war over capitalisation of brands such as "The CW" and another in which a long series of consecutive reversions were made with inflammatory edit summaries such as "(Undid revision 209145341 by A Man In Black THIS IS A PROTEST REVERTION)" [41]. He has also been spamming user and user talk pages with WP:SOCK allegations, typically directed against anyone who attempts to undo the damage he's been doing and with no evidence provided to back up any of the accusations. If the affected users attempt to revert this nonsense, he starts another revert war.
In one particularly egregious case, he made four consecutive reversions to WP:RFPP [42] [43] [44] [45] removing a response to his demands for {{ Infobox Broadcast}} to be locked at a revision that would list the final DTV allocation for many stations in place of the current one. WP:RFPP itself was briefly protected sysop-only to stop his disruptions there. While he has attempted to plead ignorance on templates on at least one occasion, he has been an active WP editor since January 2006 and should know better.
As he does have some legitimate contributions, administrators so far have issued warnings but no blocks. If he were to participate constructively instead of undoing large amounts of work done to deal with the upcoming DTV transition and launch into pointless edit wars and accusations in which anyone who crosses him is WP:SOCK, WP:VANDAL or worse, he would be capable of making a legit and valuable contribution to the TV station wikiproject. He's been here for a while and, whatever his claims to the contrary, does know his way around here.
However, his removals of information on digital television deployment in his country need to stop. No one is going to make the effort to dig out final DTV assignments and station information on four to five hundred terrestrial broadcasters and get the info into the encyclopædia in time for February 17, 2009 analog shutoff if he continues to disrupt the process by deleting info from pages and breaking the infoboxes. I estimate that, were one person to attempt to get the missing info into the pages before transition, the time required would be at least one week of full-time effort, maybe more. It's no small task.
Meanwhile, the information needs to be there, and there is a de-facto eight month federally-imposed deadline. We're not going to get there unless the disruptions cease, and even then there's some risk that the cleanup of the mess that is US DTV transition will be a lengthy and labour-intensive process. -- carlb ( talk) 00:32, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Generalmesse ( talk · contribs) has posted identical abusive comments directed against me at [46] and [47] after I removed links to WW2 Axis propaganda he'd added to the external links sections of these articles. Could an uninvolved editor please warn him about this incivility? Thanks, Nick Dowling ( talk) 06:23, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Mareklug ( talk · contribs) has repeatedly been incivil toward me despite my requests to stop. He also refuses to WP:AGF and questions my motives without justification. See these diffs: 1, 2, 3, 4. I would appreciate administrator intervention. Thanks. Tennis expert ( talk) 11:12, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
Keeps adding a SPA tag to all of my edits. Only because he disagrees with my opinions here. My first post was tagged and that's fine, but every post does not need to be tagged just because my opinion differs with his. -- BurpTheBaby ( talk) 03:50, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
As I see it, there was no need for user Alientraveller ( talk · contribs) to use sarcasm in his removal of my RFC on http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Talk:Transformers_2:_Revenge_of_the_Fallen&action=history.
I am an inexperienced editor who did not know what an Edit Conflict is and still does not, because no explanation was given. Nevertheless, I was not impolite in my creation of the RFC (which I still think is valid and not appropriate for a single editor to remove - comments welcome) and do not think the use of sarcasm was justified.
I would appreciate any thoughts and apologise if this is not the correct thing to do. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.2.32.31 ( talk • contribs) 17:58, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
In the AfD for Koboi labs, and anon IP (67.68.33.180) posted a most distasteful comment, which is a clear ad-hominem attack that I feel clearly constitutes bigotry and is clearly unacceptable under the personal attacks policy as it as an epithet against a person with a history of disabilities. The actual diff is here. I strongly suspect (without proof) this is the article's creator unhappy about the AfD. I am not asking for action to be taken against the user, as I have already issued a level two warning against the IP, and I am aware this would be a silly request for checkuser. I am simply requesting the community's approval to remove the text added in that diff from the AfD discussion. I am loathe to modify the comments of another in an AfD, no matter how invective or bigoted, and am doubly so since they were directed against me. I find WP:RPA of no guidance here, and feel that Process is important. I am therefore not comfortable unilaterally removing the invective from an active AfD discussion. Thus, before I just go and remove the comment, I am asking the community's leave to do so here. AubreyEllenShomo ( talk) 22:09, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
This user is very uncivil toward new contributors, and has also been warned several times before. He ignores any and all comments posted on his talk page, and is also uncivil in edit comments, calling users "idiots" and "preschoolers". I left a civil comment on his userpage explaining why I felt something should have been included in an article, however, he ignored it and posted a rather harsh comment on my talkpage and threatened to report me. Proof may be found on his talk page here, also here, his comment on my talk page, and here as well. Thank you. -- SWJS: The All Knowing Destroy All Humans! Nerd( Cortex Scan) 18:45, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
I have been subject to regular insults, impugning of character, and refusal to avoid direct questions asked directly regarding the content of an article William Melmoth on that articles talk page and archived talk page, and the editor's talk page, by the editor above named. I wish him to receive formal warning from another party that such behavior is not acceptable. John Carter ( talk) 19:53, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
This and this and this. Ottava Rima ( talk) 13:09, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
A simple editing dispute at Self-replicating machine was escalated to a revert war - then the user went 'off the deep end' on the talk page of that article (See the end of Talk:Self-replicating_machine#Photo and text additions). I made an attempt to calm him down and explain 'why his statements were deeply offensive (although they were clearly aimed at me very carefully by reading my User: page). But his most recent remark (at time of writing) was:
I should explain that Charles Micheal Collins appears to own a patent which I suggested was invalid due to prior art. I don't see how this constitutes an "attack".
This user edits about 50% of the time using User:71.114.30.158 - so if a block is to be considered, both that account and User:AvantVenger would need to be included.
I trust we can take speedy action - because this just went beyond reasonable limits.
Thanks in advance.
SteveBaker ( talk) 05:10, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Not only are you stupid and do not know one iota about what you are talking about on patents BUT YOU STARTED IT BY ATTACKING CHARLES MICHAEL COLLINS. I don't expect the rabble to be much smarter, particularly throngs of bleeding heart trash open source pigs who steal music, books, movies and inventions. All of you can go right to HELL! AvantVenger ( talk) 07:20, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
I now believe that AvantVenger is the real-world person Charles Collins (stripping out email address - Risker) - who appears to be the indefinitely-banned User:Fraberj. My evidence is here User_talk:AvantVenger#Is_AvantVenger_really_Charles_Collins.3F. I trust we have an admin here who knows what to do next! SteveBaker ( talk) 04:50, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
I have a pair of editors - user:OrangeMarlin and user:ScienceApologist - who are defending what seems to me to be a particularly biased version of the page. they refuse to respond to questions, and have used insults and personal attacks to back up their reverts of my edits see this link and this. they do not seem to be willing to discuss any compromise. this behavior also spills over into other pages.
I admit that my edits are broad, but I also think they are justified.
I have a separate RfC out for comments on the page to deal with the edit difference, but I would like an independent discussion of their behavior as well, because they are both tremendously biased and heartily rude.
thanks! -- Ludwigs2 05:33, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
Ludwigs and Restepc: Please remember that this page is for Wikiquette issues (civility, etc.), not for content disputes. Frankly, I am not touching the content dispute over alternative medicine, and I must say that I very much admire ScienceApologist and OrangeMarlin for the tireless work they do in this and other similar arenas. Frankly, if I did what they did for even a week, I would be driven to quit Wikipedia.
You mention insults, but I don't see them offhand and I am not going to read through Talk:Alternative medicine, dear god no. If there are specific remarks you are objecting to, please provide "diffs" (the instructions for doing so are outlined here) of the comments in question, and we can judge them in context to see if OM or SA have crossed the line. (While I said I admire those guys, I have no prejudice either way about whether they may have behaved in an incivil manner at some point. Happens to the best of us, and if they have, they will be warned to stop.)
Unless there are specific insults that you can point to, I am inclined to label this a "content dispute" and suggest that the RfC you already filed is the best way to proceed. -- Jaysweet ( talk) 13:01, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
A recent Arbcom ruling that occurred shortly after the above comments has prohibited Martinphi from participating in any discussion surrounding ScienceApologist with which he was not originally involved, so I am closing this discussion. There is nothing more to add, please do not comment further. Thank you. -- Jaysweet ( talk) 14:05, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
The abovementioned user harrassed me about "flag removal from certain pages" which he won't or maybe can't even specifically mention. The fact is, the last flag which I might have removed from any article was probably more than two weeks ago. This is his message to me just now on my talkpage which I had deleted. I double check back at this user-talk page and found that he was embroiled in some kind of mess with another Administrator, that I won't want to get involved in for obvious reasons. Quite frankly, this gives me the impression that he might be taking things out on me for no valid reason(s). On another note, I had dropped the same user a wiki-smile ( mentioned here) about two months back and he seem quite unhappy about it even though I tried to be civil with him. Appreciate if maybe some admin can help me get this guy off my back, thank you. -- Dave1185 ( talk) 04:40, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
What can be done about these kind of comments - Revert: the point is to help readers--not masturbate over ideology, You are both acting like total jerks. Please stop edit warring? Few months ago I tried to contact him on his talk page but he removed my comment with edit summary remove POV warrior spam. -- Vision Thing -- 17:07, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
I have been receiving raging and extremely profane messages, edit summaries, and such from Blogsd. They're referenced here [48]. It started with calling me an idiot, then progressed to further insults and profanity.
I've done a little digging in the last few minutes and discovered I'm not the only person he's been calling an idiot [49]. He's also reverting editors' edits for reasons that I can't comprehend, like stating that wikilinking to the article on Oman is vandalism to be stopped at all costs [50], and that wikilinking to the article on the Toronto Star newspaper is vandalism [51]. I believe I need assistance. Brilliant Pebble ( talk) 19:59, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
to be very Polite as wikipedia standard i m extreme sorry i beg ur pardon that i dont care about ur worrring . new u can block me as i already back up all text i need in my wikipedia profile. but i m affred u cant block me permanently . block my id i will creat new one . block my ip . i m using dynamic id here. block my 1st 4 digit of IP ( which u cant do it for permanently for obious reason) i change my ISP . i will use cyber cafe which will use entirely new IP . so do wateva u wanna do , do it dude. u can now block my id thnx . will see u with a new id saonara Contact
“ | Stay here. I'll be back. | ” |
— Terminator version T101 |
--
I got another uncivil post to my talk page, stating that he would use sockpuppets, that was left after Jaysweet warned this user. (Part of that same threat to use socks is repeated by Blogsd above this comment, in the form of the Terminator quote.) As recommended, I have opened a new section on WP:ANI: Wikipedia:ANI#User:Blogsd. Brilliant Pebble ( talk) 04:00, 20 June 2008 (UTC)
This users last edit summary on an edit to David Irving was "It's evident this article is tightly controlled by a gang of angry Jews. I'm not just accusing. See their profiles-might have to look at their page history. can't reason with em. tis unacceptable.)". I find this sort of language troubling and inappropriate for Wikipedia (or anywhere else for that matter). For the record I have edited David Irving, and I'm not Jewish. I don't want to bite newbies, and this is only this users second edit. But can someone not involved in the article, and familiar with whatever our rules on civility are please have a look. Jonathan Cardy ( talk) 05:56, 18 June 2008 (UTC)
I believe User:Pixelface's current behavior (starting approximately on June 6) on the RFC for determining whether the current version of Notability (fiction) has global consensus is out of line for civility for behavior expected of editors, particularly in an area of heated concern.
I will admin the topic is a very sore one, as it hits right at the center of the emotional inclusionists/deletionists issue. I am fully aware of Pixelface's views and respect those views for what they are, and I can understand the frustration behind seeing what you strongly believe in be overwhelmed by others.
However, the method by which Pixelface is approach this debate seems like it's trying to seem who can shout the loudest to make their point overly clear. There's no specific diff that exemplifies this behavior, though telling people "they're wrong", bringing up a point that doesn't apply to the specific section of the discussion while pulling from the user's history to try to prove them wrong, assuming bad faith, repeating the same points over and over and even trying to shut down the consensus process before it can begin. There's at least 30 other editors at that page and over 200 edits since the 6th, and no one else seems to be taking the same aggressive defensive stance that Pixelface is, and the atmosphere the comments generate is not healthy to good discussion.
If this is not considered uncivil behavior, then I apologize to Pixelface for the inconvenience and will drop this matter. -- MASEM 03:14, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Pixelface's editing behavior is bordering on Tendentious editing (or has already crossed this line), and while not necessarily uncivil in the usual sense, it is extremely tiring in a plonk-worthy sense. S/he has also started disputetagging WP:NOT in the last few days again (with prompt reverts), which had caused much drama at WP:NOT and ANI in the last two months before. I endorse Masem's summary that "the atmosphere the comments generate is not healthy to good discussion." Just to make clear, this note here is not intended to single out Pixelface as the only culprit, but very few editors have had what I perceive as similar bad track records for heating already heated discussions. – sgeureka t• c 13:35, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
If you guys actually want a 3rd-party opinion on this issue, I suggest you take WP:TLDR into account. I for one don't have the time to sort through all of this mess ;p :) -- Jaysweet ( talk) 16:00, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
Here is another case of what I certainly believe to be tenatious and uncivil editing. On WT:NOT, Pixelface has posted the same basic arguments with the same links to AFDs to support the point in a matter of 3 hours (not accounting for the fact that Pixelface has used the same points repeated in the same discussion thread or elsewhere on NOT): first time, second time, third. It's one thing to stick to your guns for something you believe in, but this type of discussion is not helpful to reaching a conclusion. -- MASEM 02:25, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
I thought it would be worth summarizing my findings, in support of the compromise proposal below.
-- Jaysweet ( talk) 15:42, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
In partial response to Jaysweet:
Best, -- Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles Tally-ho! 16:38, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Ooo, just when I was about to give up, there is some hope!
Pixelface, as per above, would you agree to create one or more essays in your user space which summarize your main points, and then rather than constantly reiterate them on WT:FICT whenever a new participant shows up, you can just provide a one- or two-sentence reply directing them to your essay? -- Jaysweet ( talk) 14:44, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
User:Pmanderson has continued to repeatedly utilize personal attacks against me, after being asked several times by myself and others to desist.
I believe his reasoning is an interpretation that I accused him of being racist ( further confirmed here). I attempted to clarify that it was his comment of "we are not here to incorporate the POV of the Japanese General Staff" to which I objected.
Examples of his attacks include the following links: [69] [70] [71] [72] [73] [74] [75] [76] [77] [78] [79] [80] [81] [82] [83] [84] [85] [86] [87] [88]
Requests for him to desist in such activity can be found at the following links: [89] [90] [91]
Any feedback would be appreciated. Oberiko ( talk) 01:47, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
Really? I do not see how, at the least, the following are not personal attacks:
Oberiko ( talk) 11:02, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
My reasons for calling Oberiko a liar are summarized here: not only his misrepresentation of other editor's comments, but his reading of the sources. He cites as opposition to 1939 a source which says The Second World War opened with the assault on Poland. There are various less damaging explanations for this, including difficulty with English, and in longer discussions, I have considered them. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 00:52, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
User has been bullying other users at Wikipedia:Requested moves/Tennis for days on end now, while burying other people's arguments under many repeats of the same long-winded rhetorics, against the prevailing consensus. Guido den Broeder ( talk) 13:13, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
Ok, to help out, without going too much into the exact theme of that discussion. Jaysweet, don't feel bad ;), that discussion is at a state now that makes it very, very difficult to catch up. The general theme is actually very similar to
this discussion, currently ongoing at the talk page of WP:BLP. That is, what is the extent of community discretion to discredit common usage, once verified, on the basis of unverifiable assertions by users. Particularly, if we are seeing common usage in English-language sources, which would define the title of our article, is it valid for us to claim that all the sources are "wrong" and decide that Wikipedia will right that wrong? My answer to that has been no, because that would be original research and point of view. On the tennis discussion, people are now claiming that they have consensus to retain status quo. We had consensus in a previous discussion to move, but then this consensus was considered "insufficient". I didn't mind. Then, of course,
canvassing
started to take place. I have also explained that, unless it can be established that shuning verified common usage on whichever ground that is based on user assertion is not original research and point of view, it will mean that we cannot have localized consensus to authorize that, because we have a more significant consensus, established in
WP:OR,
WP:V and
WP:NPOV, that says that those are non-negotiable in writing the encyclopedia — so far, people have actually admitted that the sources will indeed show common usage without diacritics, but that that's meaningless for [whatever reason] -- that's not negating OR and POV, that's continuing to give unverifiable reasons why we should ignore the sources, that is, OR and POV..
Now, I have indeed been posting more vehemently, but the purpose of this, and it has been clearly stated, is not to "bury" anyone, but rather to cause discussion. Otherwise, what we have is people coming over and saying "oppose because removing diacritics proves only that no author had a properly configured keyboad". That's not the only claim made, of course, but it is actually one of them. Was that ideal? No more than the alternative would have been: have people "vote" and then claim that, by headcount, there is consensus to maintain [what is essentially] original research and POV. They can, of course, attempt to establish that it is not. That is why we need discussion, not voting. But people only wanted to vote, as it was done in other occasions when diacritics and spellings were discussed. In the discussion that I have been able to provoke, some people have been personally offended for being told that they are wrong, which is all I have done; they have also been
refusing to get the point and then insisting that there is no point in discussing it further, calling my counter-argumentation "bulying".
Redux (
talk) 18:15, 12 June 2008 (UTC)
BTW, I would encourage those involved to read WP:WQA#Findings by Jaysweet (talk · contribs), as well as WP:WQA#Findings by Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles (talk · contribs) above -- except, replace "Masem" with "Guido den Broder", replace "Pixelface" with "Redux", replace "Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles" with "Tennis expert", and replace " WT:FICT" with " Wikipedia:Requested moves/Tennis". It's essentially the same exact problem... -- Jaysweet ( talk) 17:18, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
I fully agree that repetitive posting is not the best way to conduct discussion. Except in this case, were it not for repetitive posting, there would have been no discussion at all. We had seen how discussions on this and other similar topics have taken place: there is canvassing, and many users show up sustaining a "oppose" — thus dragging the process into a vote-like situation — per [whatever reason]. Since we define filibuster as jamming the airways to prevent debate, we might say that canvassing is the filibuster in this situation.
So how to try and break this trend? I thought a way to do that was to respond to people individually, because that would probably cause at least a few of them to engage in actual discussion, where they would need to be able to sustain their rationale convincingly. What would be the alternative? Certainly not wait until 15 people, who knows how many "canvassed" (is that a word?), have posted "oppose because Wikipedia can't disrespect x culture" and, after a while, make an umbrella post deconstructing the rationale, when people have already moved on and are probably not even monitoring the discussion anymore. And then what? Count signatures and see which "side" has the most supporters? That's a vote (and a questionable one at that, if there has been canvassing), not a discussion.
Redux (
talk) 15:16, 15 June 2008 (UTC)