 | Points of interest related to
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This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to Science fiction or fantasy. It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting. Anyone can help maintain the list on this page.
- Adding a new AfD discussion
- Adding an AfD to this page does not add it to the main page at
WP:AFD. Similarly, removing an AfD from this page does not remove it from the main page at
WP:AFD. If you want to nominate an article for deletion, go through the process on that page before adding it to this page. To add a discussion to this page, follow these steps:
- Edit this page and add {{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/PageName}} to the top of the list. Replace "PageName" with the relevant article name, i.e. the one on the existing AFD discussion. Also, indicate the title of the article in the edit summary as it is particularly helpful to add a link to the article in the edit summary. When you save the page, the discussion will automatically appear.
- You should also tag the AfD by adding {{subst:delsort|Science fiction and fantasy|~~~~}} to it, which will inform editors that it has been listed here. You may place this tag above or below the nomination statement or at the end of the discussion thread.
- There are a few scripts and tools that can make this easier.
- Removing a closed AfD discussion
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- Other types of discussions
- You can also add and remove other discussions ( prod, CfD, TfD etc.) related to Science fiction or fantasy. For the other XfD's, the process is the same as AfD (except {{Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/PageName}} is used for MFD and {{ transclude xfd}} for the rest). For PRODs, adding a link with {{ prodded}} will suffice.
- Further information
- For further information see Wikipedia's deletion policy and WP:AfD for general information about Articles for Deletion, including a list of article deletions sorted by day of nomination.
Archived discussions (starting from September 2007) may be found at:| watch |
- Related deletion sorting
King Grayskull
- King Grayskull ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
No evidence that this is notable per BEFORE. 🍕 Boneless Pizza!🍕 ( 🔔) 11:50, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Fictional elements, Science fiction and fantasy, Television, and Comics and animation. 🍕 Boneless Pizza!🍕 ( 🔔) 11:50, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
- Redirect this page to King Grayskull's section in List of He-Man and the Masters of the Universe characters. A quick online search doesn't show this character is notable. Moreover, from my understanding, he's a pretty minor character in the franchise to begin with. -- PanagiotisZois ( talk) 12:43, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
Battle Cat
- Battle Cat ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
No evidence that this is notable per BEFORE. 🍕 Boneless Pizza!🍕 ( 🔔) 11:48, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Fictional elements, Science fiction and fantasy, Television, and Comics and animation. 🍕 Boneless Pizza!🍕 ( 🔔) 11:48, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
Demona
- Demona ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
The only sigcov source here [1] and a bit useful IGN source [2] still doesn't pass WP:GNG with the demonstrated sources. The best thing is to merge it into a list of characters. 🍕 Boneless Pizza!🍕 ( 🔔) 11:39, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Fictional elements, Science fiction and fantasy, and Television. 🍕 Boneless Pizza!🍕 ( 🔔) 11:39, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
- Delete and Section Move. I find it strange that this character ends up having her own page in this website, so I agree that the majority of the information in Demona's separate article should be merged in the list of Gargoyle characters. Anonymy365248 ( talk) 18:29, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
- Keep She's a decades-old character who is still popular today and has appeared in different forms of media including games and comics. --
DrBat (
talk) 21:42, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
-
WP:ITSPOPULAR 🍕
Boneless Pizza!🍕 (
🔔) 23:23, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
- "But without a single reliable source to verify its existence or accuracy, there is no way it can be included" doesn't apply here.
DrBat (
talk) 01:09, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
- At this point, I'm not sure what I'm gonna respond to you. Show me more sources like Mary Sue that really doscuss the character in detail for it to prove that she's really notable. 🍕 Boneless Pizza!🍕 ( 🔔) 01:45, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
- "But without a single reliable source to verify its existence or accuracy, there is no way it can be included" doesn't apply here.
DrBat (
talk) 01:09, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
-
WP:ITSPOPULAR 🍕
Boneless Pizza!🍕 (
🔔) 23:23, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
- The av club one has a whole section of the interview about the character, it's hardly a passing mention. --
DrBat (
talk) 04:20, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
- Oops I missed this sorry, but we don't usually call this WP:SIGCOV as a source somehow since Demona wasn't discussed as a character but as an interview to voice her in a short detail. 🍕 Boneless Pizza!🍕 ( 🔔) 04:43, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
- The av club one has a whole section of the interview about the character, it's hardly a passing mention. --
DrBat (
talk) 04:20, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
Baalveer Returns
- Baalveer Returns ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Can't see it passes WP: GNG. All available sourcing are just about the actors. Proposing MERGE to Baalveer or DELETE. Twinkle1990 ( talk) 16:29, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Television and India. Twinkle1990 ( talk) 16:29, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- Keep:The article "Baalveer Returns" has been supported by many reliable sources, including Mid Day, The Tribune India, Aaj Tak, Abp news and The Times of India as per /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Film/Indian_cinema_task_force#Guidelines_on_sources It seems like Twinkle1990 has a personal enmity with Baalveer, so they are trying to delete all Balveer- related articles.
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Science fiction and fantasy-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 18:25, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- Delete or Redirect to Baalveer. Same here like Baalveer 3 and Baalveer 4 nomination. The sources do not have the quality and depth of coverage needed to warrant a page on this show. Fails WP:GNG. RangersRus ( talk) 21:57, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
- Redirect to Baalveer. Since the article is not passing, WP: GNG. M S Hassan ( talk) 10:42, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Please sign all comments in AFD discussions.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:29, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
List of Fantastic Beasts characters
- List of Fantastic Beasts characters ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
There are two big issues: Firstly, there's no citations outside of the one character that already has his own page, Newt Scamander. Secondly, this is for a three-film series - so not really a huge body of work - and, outside of the main four or five characters, there's one or two sentences for each person. Worse, the articles on the films have cast lists with one or two sentence descriptions of the characters, so it's redundant as well (The main characters' longer bits just being the plot summaries of the films). Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 8.8% of all FPs. 23:27, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Fictional elements, Science fiction and fantasy, and Lists. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 00:13, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 00:13, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
- Keep Meets
WP:CSC #2, no argument for deletion made that cannot be remedied by editing.
Jclemens (
talk) 04:13, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
- I don't think it rises to the level of notability where it can ever be sourced. Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 8.8% of all FPs. 04:14, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
- These articles a little weird if we are trying to go by consistency.
List of Harry Potter characters exists, but that is for characters who appeared in any of the books, which a lot of these do not and are not mentioned in that article. There is also
List of Fantastic Beasts cast members which compliments
List of Harry Potter cast members (a featured list.) Maybe it might be beneficial to merge the two Fantastic Beasts articles since the cast members one is well sourced, while this one is not.
Aspects (
talk) 15:11, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
- I'm not objecting to Fantastic Beasts having multiple articles, but the number of secondary articles on it seems vastly out of line with the material. Fantastic Beasts (film series) and the three film articles are sensible enough, Newt Scamander seems to have enough independant coverage - and crossover content between various things - that it's justified, but when you get to a list of the characters, and a cast list as a table without any context, it feels both redundant and weird. It feels like the cast list should be at the end of the article on the series, and the character list... well... it's really hard to see why that exists at all if this article the most we can come up with, and I don't think anything in it isn't in the cast sections of the articles for each film; indeed, I think those may be doing a slightly better job.
- Harry Potter isn't a good guide to what should exist here, as that was a much, much bigger phenomenon than its spinoff, and, as a book series, had both a lot more characters than could plausibly fit in a plot summary and a lot more development and recurrence of minor characters (and Rowling talked a lot more about the development of those characters in interviews). Films just don't have the depth of books, and, if there's material about secondary characters that got left out of the films, as far as I'm aware, it's not reported on.
- And, of course, Harry Potter in particular had a lot more secondary sources that went into detail about every character; Fantastic Beasts doesn't have anything like that depth of coverage. Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 8.8% of all FPs. 15:43, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
- Comment I feel there has to be a merge target as an
WP:ATD for this. The one suggested above seems less intuitive than if the main article had a characters section. Perhaps each individual film should have a characters section?
Conyo14 (
talk) 04:08, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
- They already do, is the thing, with one or two sentence descriptions of the characters. And it covers pretty much all the information on this page except for the main cast, who are redundant to the plot summary. If I've missed that one doesn't appear, by all means copy it over. Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 8.8% of all FPs. 13:50, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
- Keep or merge with List of Fantastic Beasts cast members. I think there is enough to write about these characters, both as a group and individually, based on pop culture sources like [3], [4], and scholarly sources like here and many others. While it is indeed a problem that there are almost no references, this can easily be addressed through normal editing by using such secondary non-independent book-length sources like Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them: Character Guide or Harry Potter: Characters of the Wizarding World. The latter also sets a precedent for a possible merge with List of Harry Potter characters, if a collective treatment is somehow seen as beneficial. (Which would pose the naming problem, where surly there can be a compromise if needed.) No strong opinion on that particular question. List of Fantastic Beasts cast members to me seems to have less content, so this could be merged here, discussion on the name notwithstanding. Or that list could be merged to Fantastic Beasts, as suggested this discussion, leaving the our list here with solvable problems to solve. Daranios ( talk) 11:08, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
- Further pop culture sources, if somewhat focussed on a specific film of the series would be
[5],
[6], and with a fun bit of analysis,
[7]. So again, that there is not enough sourcing to constitute an article does not at all seem to be the case.
Daranios (
talk) 16:05, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
- Well, it feels redundant to the film articles, and there's an unstated presumption people care enough to actually make this into a decent article, but, well, sure.
Adam Cuerden (
talk)Has about 8.8% of all
FPs. 17:15, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
- @
Adam Cuerden:
there's an unstated presumption people care enough to actually make this into a decent article
: On the one hand I think that's a valid concern, seeing that some articles stay tagged and unimproved for long periods of time. But on the other hand I think that is the basic premise of Wikipedia, and the project is immensly successful! So I prefer to err on the side of hope in accordance with WP:There is no deadline and especially WP:Work in progress. Daranios ( talk) 07:15, 29 May 2024 (UTC)- Ay, but I think when the article's a spinoff that has redundant information to other articles at present, it's perhaps more of a question. As it stands, it's just the character lists already in the three films, but as an unreferenced, alphabetised list. Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 8.8% of all FPs. 10:26, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- @
Adam Cuerden:
- Well, it feels redundant to the film articles, and there's an unstated presumption people care enough to actually make this into a decent article, but, well, sure.
Adam Cuerden (
talk)Has about 8.8% of all
FPs. 17:15, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
- Further pop culture sources, if somewhat focussed on a specific film of the series would be
[5],
[6], and with a fun bit of analysis,
[7]. So again, that there is not enough sourcing to constitute an article does not at all seem to be the case.
Daranios (
talk) 16:05, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting as there is no consensus yet. Please do not turn List of Fantastic Beasts cast members into a Redirect as that article is being discussed as a possible Merge target article which can't occur if the page is a Redirect.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:30, 30 May 2024 (UTC)- Okay but do note the entirety of List of Fantastic Beasts cast members is merged to Fantastic Beasts now, so unless we do combine, should redirect. Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 8.8% of all FPs. 18:10, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
- Merge with List of Fantastic Beasts cast members. The two subjects can be elegantly merged, and together there is less question about notability. Malinaccier ( talk) 15:10, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
- Merge. See no reason why not to. Only the same characters. Hyperbolick ( talk) 17:01, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
- Question to Malinaccier and Hyperbolick: If the result was a merge, would you prefer to merge this List of Fantastic Beasts characters to List of Fantastic Beasts cast members or the other way round? I kind of feel that we have more content here, and "characters" feels more natural to me than "cast members", also seeing that there is some spinoff into (and from) other media. So if there was to be a merge and it was up to me, I'd merge List of Fantastic Beasts cast members here. (And there is of course the other option as suggested by Adam Cuerden to merge List of Fantastic Beasts cast members to Fantastic Beasts. In case you would support that, how would that influence your merge opinion?) Daranios ( talk) 20:54, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
- Hmm.. "characters" does feel better. Hyperbolick ( talk) 04:50, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: One more try…
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris talk! 08:20, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
| Points of interest related to
Science fiction on Wikipedia: Portal – Category – WikiProject – Deletions – Cleanup – Stubs – To-do |
| Points of interest related to
Star Trek on Wikipedia: Outline – History – Category – WikiProject – Alerts – Stubs – Assessment |
| Points of interest related to
Star Wars on Wikipedia: Category – WikiProject – Alerts – Stubs – Assessment – To-do |
This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to Science fiction or fantasy. It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting. Anyone can help maintain the list on this page.
- Adding a new AfD discussion
- Adding an AfD to this page does not add it to the main page at
WP:AFD. Similarly, removing an AfD from this page does not remove it from the main page at
WP:AFD. If you want to nominate an article for deletion, go through the process on that page before adding it to this page. To add a discussion to this page, follow these steps:
- Edit this page and add {{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/PageName}} to the top of the list. Replace "PageName" with the relevant article name, i.e. the one on the existing AFD discussion. Also, indicate the title of the article in the edit summary as it is particularly helpful to add a link to the article in the edit summary. When you save the page, the discussion will automatically appear.
- You should also tag the AfD by adding {{subst:delsort|Science fiction and fantasy|~~~~}} to it, which will inform editors that it has been listed here. You may place this tag above or below the nomination statement or at the end of the discussion thread.
- There are a few scripts and tools that can make this easier.
- Removing a closed AfD discussion
- Closed AfD discussions are automatically removed by a bot.
- Other types of discussions
- You can also add and remove other discussions ( prod, CfD, TfD etc.) related to Science fiction or fantasy. For the other XfD's, the process is the same as AfD (except {{Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/PageName}} is used for MFD and {{ transclude xfd}} for the rest). For PRODs, adding a link with {{ prodded}} will suffice.
- Further information
- For further information see Wikipedia's deletion policy and WP:AfD for general information about Articles for Deletion, including a list of article deletions sorted by day of nomination.
Archived discussions (starting from September 2007) may be found at:| watch |
- Related deletion sorting
King Grayskull
- King Grayskull ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
No evidence that this is notable per BEFORE. 🍕 Boneless Pizza!🍕 ( 🔔) 11:50, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Fictional elements, Science fiction and fantasy, Television, and Comics and animation. 🍕 Boneless Pizza!🍕 ( 🔔) 11:50, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
- Redirect this page to King Grayskull's section in List of He-Man and the Masters of the Universe characters. A quick online search doesn't show this character is notable. Moreover, from my understanding, he's a pretty minor character in the franchise to begin with. -- PanagiotisZois ( talk) 12:43, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
Battle Cat
- Battle Cat ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
No evidence that this is notable per BEFORE. 🍕 Boneless Pizza!🍕 ( 🔔) 11:48, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Fictional elements, Science fiction and fantasy, Television, and Comics and animation. 🍕 Boneless Pizza!🍕 ( 🔔) 11:48, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
Demona
- Demona ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
The only sigcov source here [1] and a bit useful IGN source [2] still doesn't pass WP:GNG with the demonstrated sources. The best thing is to merge it into a list of characters. 🍕 Boneless Pizza!🍕 ( 🔔) 11:39, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Fictional elements, Science fiction and fantasy, and Television. 🍕 Boneless Pizza!🍕 ( 🔔) 11:39, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
- Delete and Section Move. I find it strange that this character ends up having her own page in this website, so I agree that the majority of the information in Demona's separate article should be merged in the list of Gargoyle characters. Anonymy365248 ( talk) 18:29, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
- Keep She's a decades-old character who is still popular today and has appeared in different forms of media including games and comics. --
DrBat (
talk) 21:42, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
-
WP:ITSPOPULAR 🍕
Boneless Pizza!🍕 (
🔔) 23:23, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
- "But without a single reliable source to verify its existence or accuracy, there is no way it can be included" doesn't apply here.
DrBat (
talk) 01:09, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
- At this point, I'm not sure what I'm gonna respond to you. Show me more sources like Mary Sue that really doscuss the character in detail for it to prove that she's really notable. 🍕 Boneless Pizza!🍕 ( 🔔) 01:45, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
- "But without a single reliable source to verify its existence or accuracy, there is no way it can be included" doesn't apply here.
DrBat (
talk) 01:09, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
-
WP:ITSPOPULAR 🍕
Boneless Pizza!🍕 (
🔔) 23:23, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
- The av club one has a whole section of the interview about the character, it's hardly a passing mention. --
DrBat (
talk) 04:20, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
- Oops I missed this sorry, but we don't usually call this WP:SIGCOV as a source somehow since Demona wasn't discussed as a character but as an interview to voice her in a short detail. 🍕 Boneless Pizza!🍕 ( 🔔) 04:43, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
- The av club one has a whole section of the interview about the character, it's hardly a passing mention. --
DrBat (
talk) 04:20, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
Baalveer Returns
- Baalveer Returns ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Can't see it passes WP: GNG. All available sourcing are just about the actors. Proposing MERGE to Baalveer or DELETE. Twinkle1990 ( talk) 16:29, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Television and India. Twinkle1990 ( talk) 16:29, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- Keep:The article "Baalveer Returns" has been supported by many reliable sources, including Mid Day, The Tribune India, Aaj Tak, Abp news and The Times of India as per /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Film/Indian_cinema_task_force#Guidelines_on_sources It seems like Twinkle1990 has a personal enmity with Baalveer, so they are trying to delete all Balveer- related articles.
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Science fiction and fantasy-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 18:25, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- Delete or Redirect to Baalveer. Same here like Baalveer 3 and Baalveer 4 nomination. The sources do not have the quality and depth of coverage needed to warrant a page on this show. Fails WP:GNG. RangersRus ( talk) 21:57, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
- Redirect to Baalveer. Since the article is not passing, WP: GNG. M S Hassan ( talk) 10:42, 4 June 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Please sign all comments in AFD discussions.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:29, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
List of Fantastic Beasts characters
- List of Fantastic Beasts characters ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
There are two big issues: Firstly, there's no citations outside of the one character that already has his own page, Newt Scamander. Secondly, this is for a three-film series - so not really a huge body of work - and, outside of the main four or five characters, there's one or two sentences for each person. Worse, the articles on the films have cast lists with one or two sentence descriptions of the characters, so it's redundant as well (The main characters' longer bits just being the plot summaries of the films). Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 8.8% of all FPs. 23:27, 23 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Fictional elements, Science fiction and fantasy, and Lists. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 00:13, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 00:13, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
- Keep Meets
WP:CSC #2, no argument for deletion made that cannot be remedied by editing.
Jclemens (
talk) 04:13, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
- I don't think it rises to the level of notability where it can ever be sourced. Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 8.8% of all FPs. 04:14, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
- These articles a little weird if we are trying to go by consistency.
List of Harry Potter characters exists, but that is for characters who appeared in any of the books, which a lot of these do not and are not mentioned in that article. There is also
List of Fantastic Beasts cast members which compliments
List of Harry Potter cast members (a featured list.) Maybe it might be beneficial to merge the two Fantastic Beasts articles since the cast members one is well sourced, while this one is not.
Aspects (
talk) 15:11, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
- I'm not objecting to Fantastic Beasts having multiple articles, but the number of secondary articles on it seems vastly out of line with the material. Fantastic Beasts (film series) and the three film articles are sensible enough, Newt Scamander seems to have enough independant coverage - and crossover content between various things - that it's justified, but when you get to a list of the characters, and a cast list as a table without any context, it feels both redundant and weird. It feels like the cast list should be at the end of the article on the series, and the character list... well... it's really hard to see why that exists at all if this article the most we can come up with, and I don't think anything in it isn't in the cast sections of the articles for each film; indeed, I think those may be doing a slightly better job.
- Harry Potter isn't a good guide to what should exist here, as that was a much, much bigger phenomenon than its spinoff, and, as a book series, had both a lot more characters than could plausibly fit in a plot summary and a lot more development and recurrence of minor characters (and Rowling talked a lot more about the development of those characters in interviews). Films just don't have the depth of books, and, if there's material about secondary characters that got left out of the films, as far as I'm aware, it's not reported on.
- And, of course, Harry Potter in particular had a lot more secondary sources that went into detail about every character; Fantastic Beasts doesn't have anything like that depth of coverage. Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 8.8% of all FPs. 15:43, 24 May 2024 (UTC)
- Comment I feel there has to be a merge target as an
WP:ATD for this. The one suggested above seems less intuitive than if the main article had a characters section. Perhaps each individual film should have a characters section?
Conyo14 (
talk) 04:08, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
- They already do, is the thing, with one or two sentence descriptions of the characters. And it covers pretty much all the information on this page except for the main cast, who are redundant to the plot summary. If I've missed that one doesn't appear, by all means copy it over. Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 8.8% of all FPs. 13:50, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
- Keep or merge with List of Fantastic Beasts cast members. I think there is enough to write about these characters, both as a group and individually, based on pop culture sources like [3], [4], and scholarly sources like here and many others. While it is indeed a problem that there are almost no references, this can easily be addressed through normal editing by using such secondary non-independent book-length sources like Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them: Character Guide or Harry Potter: Characters of the Wizarding World. The latter also sets a precedent for a possible merge with List of Harry Potter characters, if a collective treatment is somehow seen as beneficial. (Which would pose the naming problem, where surly there can be a compromise if needed.) No strong opinion on that particular question. List of Fantastic Beasts cast members to me seems to have less content, so this could be merged here, discussion on the name notwithstanding. Or that list could be merged to Fantastic Beasts, as suggested this discussion, leaving the our list here with solvable problems to solve. Daranios ( talk) 11:08, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
- Further pop culture sources, if somewhat focussed on a specific film of the series would be
[5],
[6], and with a fun bit of analysis,
[7]. So again, that there is not enough sourcing to constitute an article does not at all seem to be the case.
Daranios (
talk) 16:05, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
- Well, it feels redundant to the film articles, and there's an unstated presumption people care enough to actually make this into a decent article, but, well, sure.
Adam Cuerden (
talk)Has about 8.8% of all
FPs. 17:15, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
- @
Adam Cuerden:
there's an unstated presumption people care enough to actually make this into a decent article
: On the one hand I think that's a valid concern, seeing that some articles stay tagged and unimproved for long periods of time. But on the other hand I think that is the basic premise of Wikipedia, and the project is immensly successful! So I prefer to err on the side of hope in accordance with WP:There is no deadline and especially WP:Work in progress. Daranios ( talk) 07:15, 29 May 2024 (UTC)- Ay, but I think when the article's a spinoff that has redundant information to other articles at present, it's perhaps more of a question. As it stands, it's just the character lists already in the three films, but as an unreferenced, alphabetised list. Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 8.8% of all FPs. 10:26, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
- @
Adam Cuerden:
- Well, it feels redundant to the film articles, and there's an unstated presumption people care enough to actually make this into a decent article, but, well, sure.
Adam Cuerden (
talk)Has about 8.8% of all
FPs. 17:15, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
- Further pop culture sources, if somewhat focussed on a specific film of the series would be
[5],
[6], and with a fun bit of analysis,
[7]. So again, that there is not enough sourcing to constitute an article does not at all seem to be the case.
Daranios (
talk) 16:05, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting as there is no consensus yet. Please do not turn List of Fantastic Beasts cast members into a Redirect as that article is being discussed as a possible Merge target article which can't occur if the page is a Redirect.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:30, 30 May 2024 (UTC)- Okay but do note the entirety of List of Fantastic Beasts cast members is merged to Fantastic Beasts now, so unless we do combine, should redirect. Adam Cuerden ( talk)Has about 8.8% of all FPs. 18:10, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
- Merge with List of Fantastic Beasts cast members. The two subjects can be elegantly merged, and together there is less question about notability. Malinaccier ( talk) 15:10, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
- Merge. See no reason why not to. Only the same characters. Hyperbolick ( talk) 17:01, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
- Question to Malinaccier and Hyperbolick: If the result was a merge, would you prefer to merge this List of Fantastic Beasts characters to List of Fantastic Beasts cast members or the other way round? I kind of feel that we have more content here, and "characters" feels more natural to me than "cast members", also seeing that there is some spinoff into (and from) other media. So if there was to be a merge and it was up to me, I'd merge List of Fantastic Beasts cast members here. (And there is of course the other option as suggested by Adam Cuerden to merge List of Fantastic Beasts cast members to Fantastic Beasts. In case you would support that, how would that influence your merge opinion?) Daranios ( talk) 20:54, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
- Hmm.. "characters" does feel better. Hyperbolick ( talk) 04:50, 8 June 2024 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: One more try…
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, CycloneYoris talk! 08:20, 9 June 2024 (UTC)