 | Points of interest related to
Albums on Wikipedia: Portal – Category – WikiProject – Alerts – Cleanup – Assessment – To-do |
| Points of interest related to
Songs on Wikipedia: Category – WikiProject – Alerts – Assessment |
This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to Albums and songs. It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting. Anyone can help maintain the list on this page.
- Adding a new AfD discussion
- Adding an AfD to this page does not add it to the main page at
WP:AFD. Similarly, removing an AfD from this page does not remove it from the main page at
WP:AFD. If you want to nominate an article for deletion, go through the process on that page before adding it to this page. To add a discussion to this page, follow these steps:
- Edit this page and add {{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/PageName}} to the top of the list. Replace "PageName" with the relevant article name, i.e. the one on the existing AFD discussion. Also, indicate the title of the article in the edit summary as it is particularly helpful to add a link to the article in the edit summary. When you save the page, the discussion will automatically appear.
- You should also tag the AfD by adding {{subst:delsort|Albums and songs|~~~~}} to it, which will inform editors that it has been listed here. You may place this tag above or below the nomination statement or at the end of the discussion thread.
- There are a few scripts and tools that can make this easier.
- Removing a closed AfD discussion
- Closed AfD discussions are automatically removed by a bot.
- Other types of discussions
- You can also add and remove other discussions ( prod, CfD, TfD etc.) related to Albums and songs. For the other XfD's, the process is the same as AfD (except {{Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/PageName}} is used for MFD and {{ transclude xfd}} for the rest). For PRODs, adding a link with {{ prodded}} will suffice.
- Further information
- For further information see Wikipedia's deletion policy and WP:AfD for general information about Articles for Deletion, including a list of article deletions sorted by day of nomination.
Archived discussions (starting from September 2007) may be found at:| watch |
- Related deletion sorting
Raw to the Bone
- Raw to the Bone ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Only minimal coverage of this album can be found to fulfill WP:NALBUM: a short review in The Ottawa Citizen and an entry with a star-rating but no additional comment in The encyclopedia of popular music. Not enough for notability, Redirect to Wishbone Ash#Discography Broc ( talk) 20:35, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. Broc ( talk) 20:35, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- There's way more than that out there, and I'll write a fully expanded, referenced article about this album when I have time. I'm working on their previous album at the moment. Until then, it should probably be a redirect. Bretonbanquet ( talk) 20:43, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
Thriller (Fall Out Boy song)
- Thriller (Fall Out Boy song) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
The article is based on album reviews for Infinity on High. so it doesn't establish a separate WP:SIGCOV. I searched sources independently and I found two, both from NME, [1] [2] one written from Patrick Stump's point of view and the other from Pete Wentz's view. Those sources don't say anything different from what is already said by the sources present in the article. And Infinity on High mentions part of the article's content anyway. (CC) Tbhotch ™ 03:24, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. (CC) Tbhotch ™ 03:24, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Redirect to Infinity on High: sources in article only make very brief mentions of the song, and the same goes for the two NME articles the nominator linked. Nowhere near enough for an independent article. I wouldn't oppose a merger if there are any valuable statements included here which aren't already in the album article. QuietHere ( talk | contributions) 03:49, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Keep Meets
WP:GNG - The article is comprehensive and there is commentary about the song in multiple reliable sources.
Slant Magazine,
Northern Valley Suburbanite,
Alternative Press,
Guitar.com. Additionally the song leads with an introduction from Jay Z which garnered much press like in the
Los Angeles Times and other major media outlets.Note, as the article's main author I was not notified of this AfD.
Bruxton (
talk)
04:31, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- In the past I would have said the same. The article itself is not the issue, but the sources are. They are all about the album, so the critics naturally write about the songs featured in the album from that perspective. For example, "I've Got All This Ringing in My Ears and None on My Fingers" is also mentioned by two of the sources you included and some sources included at Infinity on High, but that doesn't mean we should have an article for it. This was practically the conclusion reached at previous AFD discussions like Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Red Hot Kinda Love, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Don't Let Me Down (Leona Lewis song), Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/My Hands. A good example of how this is reversed is Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bloody Mary (Lady Gaga song), a song that was marignally notable when it was released, but that gained independent notability after an external event created that notability; that is, being used in a TV series and secondary sources discussing it independently from the album. (CC) Tbhotch ™ 05:57, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Merge (into Infinity on High) - it has good info, but I agree with the nom. – The Sharpest Lives ( 💬• ✏️• ℹ️) 06:31, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Keep I came here from DYK and I am the editor who approved this article's nomination when it ran on the main page. During the approval process many editors, administrators and readers vetted the article. The article clearly meets our general notability guide. A topic is "notable" if there is enough usable coverage of it in reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject, to write a good encyclopedic article. I think that is what we have here, a good encyclopedic article about the song, based on multiple secondary sources.
Lightburst (
talk)
01:48, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- You can refer to WP:NSONGS: "Coverage of a song in the context of an album review does not establish notability." (CC) Tbhotch ™ 03:47, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- We should not focus on the SNG -
WP:NSONG, according to
WP:N
A topic is presumed to merit an article if: It meets either the general notability guideline (GNG) below, or the criteria outlined in a subject-specific notability guideline (SNG); and t is not excluded under the What Wikipedia is not policy.
I believe that it meets GNG based on the RS. Lightburst ( talk) 04:06, 7 July 2024 (UTC)- Sadly, they are not a reason to keep the page alone. Some sources are trivial and none of the sources present is about the song alone; they are about the album, regardless on how you'd like to word it. As I said before, just because the sources at Infinity on High#References mention songs like Don't You Know Who I Think I Am?, I've Got All This Ringing in My Ears and None on My Fingers, or Bang the Doldrums, we have to create their articles based on album reviews that trivially reviewed them from the album's perspective, like it occured with Thriller (Fall Out Boy song).
- On the talk page I left the sources review. I don't see the independent, non-trivial, non-passing mentions content that indicate significant coverage that is independent from the parent album. I see sources speaking about the song from the album's context focusing on being named after a Michael Jackson album and inadvertently having a rap intro by Jay-Z, both facts that can be covered by the album's composition section.
- As much as you'd like to keep the page, this hadn't had to run on the main page in the first place and you made a mistake by approving an article built on trivialities. Proof of this is the fact that this song hasn't been discussed by critics in subsequent releases thoroughly and it needs to have a background that doesn't even mention the song and has to rely exclusively on trivial album mentions.
(CC)
Tbhotch
™
04:31, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- You have made seven edits to the article and you have typed 6527 characters (1062 words) in an effort to remove an article that is only 2963 characters (517 words). This AfD time-suck is an example of why I am not as active in deletion lately. You have lost credibility in your source assessment because I randomly looked at #9: you referred to three full paragraphs discussing the song as a passing mention. And #15 you refer to an article which features this song as one of 15 heaviest songs as a passing mention. I am not going to focus on all the WP:OTHERSTUFF arguments. Also I really need to start observing WP:COAL and maybe you should too. Lightburst ( talk) 19:25, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- We should not focus on the SNG -
WP:NSONG, according to
WP:N
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Opinion divided between Keeping this article and Merge/Redirect it.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 03:32, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
for occasional archiving
| Points of interest related to
Albums on Wikipedia: Portal – Category – WikiProject – Alerts – Cleanup – Assessment – To-do |
| Points of interest related to
Songs on Wikipedia: Category – WikiProject – Alerts – Assessment |
This is a collection of discussions on the deletion of articles related to Albums and songs. It is one of many deletion lists coordinated by WikiProject Deletion sorting. Anyone can help maintain the list on this page.
- Adding a new AfD discussion
- Adding an AfD to this page does not add it to the main page at
WP:AFD. Similarly, removing an AfD from this page does not remove it from the main page at
WP:AFD. If you want to nominate an article for deletion, go through the process on that page before adding it to this page. To add a discussion to this page, follow these steps:
- Edit this page and add {{Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/PageName}} to the top of the list. Replace "PageName" with the relevant article name, i.e. the one on the existing AFD discussion. Also, indicate the title of the article in the edit summary as it is particularly helpful to add a link to the article in the edit summary. When you save the page, the discussion will automatically appear.
- You should also tag the AfD by adding {{subst:delsort|Albums and songs|~~~~}} to it, which will inform editors that it has been listed here. You may place this tag above or below the nomination statement or at the end of the discussion thread.
- There are a few scripts and tools that can make this easier.
- Removing a closed AfD discussion
- Closed AfD discussions are automatically removed by a bot.
- Other types of discussions
- You can also add and remove other discussions ( prod, CfD, TfD etc.) related to Albums and songs. For the other XfD's, the process is the same as AfD (except {{Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/PageName}} is used for MFD and {{ transclude xfd}} for the rest). For PRODs, adding a link with {{ prodded}} will suffice.
- Further information
- For further information see Wikipedia's deletion policy and WP:AfD for general information about Articles for Deletion, including a list of article deletions sorted by day of nomination.
Archived discussions (starting from September 2007) may be found at:| watch |
- Related deletion sorting
Raw to the Bone
- Raw to the Bone ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Only minimal coverage of this album can be found to fulfill WP:NALBUM: a short review in The Ottawa Citizen and an entry with a star-rating but no additional comment in The encyclopedia of popular music. Not enough for notability, Redirect to Wishbone Ash#Discography Broc ( talk) 20:35, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. Broc ( talk) 20:35, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- There's way more than that out there, and I'll write a fully expanded, referenced article about this album when I have time. I'm working on their previous album at the moment. Until then, it should probably be a redirect. Bretonbanquet ( talk) 20:43, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
Thriller (Fall Out Boy song)
- Thriller (Fall Out Boy song) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View AfD | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
The article is based on album reviews for Infinity on High. so it doesn't establish a separate WP:SIGCOV. I searched sources independently and I found two, both from NME, [1] [2] one written from Patrick Stump's point of view and the other from Pete Wentz's view. Those sources don't say anything different from what is already said by the sources present in the article. And Infinity on High mentions part of the article's content anyway. (CC) Tbhotch ™ 03:24, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. (CC) Tbhotch ™ 03:24, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Redirect to Infinity on High: sources in article only make very brief mentions of the song, and the same goes for the two NME articles the nominator linked. Nowhere near enough for an independent article. I wouldn't oppose a merger if there are any valuable statements included here which aren't already in the album article. QuietHere ( talk | contributions) 03:49, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Keep Meets
WP:GNG - The article is comprehensive and there is commentary about the song in multiple reliable sources.
Slant Magazine,
Northern Valley Suburbanite,
Alternative Press,
Guitar.com. Additionally the song leads with an introduction from Jay Z which garnered much press like in the
Los Angeles Times and other major media outlets.Note, as the article's main author I was not notified of this AfD.
Bruxton (
talk)
04:31, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- In the past I would have said the same. The article itself is not the issue, but the sources are. They are all about the album, so the critics naturally write about the songs featured in the album from that perspective. For example, "I've Got All This Ringing in My Ears and None on My Fingers" is also mentioned by two of the sources you included and some sources included at Infinity on High, but that doesn't mean we should have an article for it. This was practically the conclusion reached at previous AFD discussions like Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Red Hot Kinda Love, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Don't Let Me Down (Leona Lewis song), Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/My Hands. A good example of how this is reversed is Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bloody Mary (Lady Gaga song), a song that was marignally notable when it was released, but that gained independent notability after an external event created that notability; that is, being used in a TV series and secondary sources discussing it independently from the album. (CC) Tbhotch ™ 05:57, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Merge (into Infinity on High) - it has good info, but I agree with the nom. – The Sharpest Lives ( 💬• ✏️• ℹ️) 06:31, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- Keep I came here from DYK and I am the editor who approved this article's nomination when it ran on the main page. During the approval process many editors, administrators and readers vetted the article. The article clearly meets our general notability guide. A topic is "notable" if there is enough usable coverage of it in reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject, to write a good encyclopedic article. I think that is what we have here, a good encyclopedic article about the song, based on multiple secondary sources.
Lightburst (
talk)
01:48, 4 July 2024 (UTC)
- You can refer to WP:NSONGS: "Coverage of a song in the context of an album review does not establish notability." (CC) Tbhotch ™ 03:47, 5 July 2024 (UTC)
- We should not focus on the SNG -
WP:NSONG, according to
WP:N
A topic is presumed to merit an article if: It meets either the general notability guideline (GNG) below, or the criteria outlined in a subject-specific notability guideline (SNG); and t is not excluded under the What Wikipedia is not policy.
I believe that it meets GNG based on the RS. Lightburst ( talk) 04:06, 7 July 2024 (UTC)- Sadly, they are not a reason to keep the page alone. Some sources are trivial and none of the sources present is about the song alone; they are about the album, regardless on how you'd like to word it. As I said before, just because the sources at Infinity on High#References mention songs like Don't You Know Who I Think I Am?, I've Got All This Ringing in My Ears and None on My Fingers, or Bang the Doldrums, we have to create their articles based on album reviews that trivially reviewed them from the album's perspective, like it occured with Thriller (Fall Out Boy song).
- On the talk page I left the sources review. I don't see the independent, non-trivial, non-passing mentions content that indicate significant coverage that is independent from the parent album. I see sources speaking about the song from the album's context focusing on being named after a Michael Jackson album and inadvertently having a rap intro by Jay-Z, both facts that can be covered by the album's composition section.
- As much as you'd like to keep the page, this hadn't had to run on the main page in the first place and you made a mistake by approving an article built on trivialities. Proof of this is the fact that this song hasn't been discussed by critics in subsequent releases thoroughly and it needs to have a background that doesn't even mention the song and has to rely exclusively on trivial album mentions.
(CC)
Tbhotch
™
04:31, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- You have made seven edits to the article and you have typed 6527 characters (1062 words) in an effort to remove an article that is only 2963 characters (517 words). This AfD time-suck is an example of why I am not as active in deletion lately. You have lost credibility in your source assessment because I randomly looked at #9: you referred to three full paragraphs discussing the song as a passing mention. And #15 you refer to an article which features this song as one of 15 heaviest songs as a passing mention. I am not going to focus on all the WP:OTHERSTUFF arguments. Also I really need to start observing WP:COAL and maybe you should too. Lightburst ( talk) 19:25, 9 July 2024 (UTC)
- We should not focus on the SNG -
WP:NSONG, according to
WP:N
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Opinion divided between Keeping this article and Merge/Redirect it.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 03:32, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
for occasional archiving