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The thing about transwiking is that a lot of readers and editors come here for these articles and there is an element of convenience just navigating around one main wiki rather than googling for other specialized wikis and I believe that Wikipedia attracts a lot more editors than these other wikis, which augments the likelihood of us covering some of these articles even better than the other wikis do. Now, granted our articles when transwikied thus carry that work over to the other wikis, but then editors and readers who had worked on or used the articles here are oftentimes baffled when it's all of a sudden no longer here. An idea could be something like having internal links that can allow for easier navigation among the wikis. Or having deleted pages that are transwikied somehow redirected to the transwikied page (that has to somehow be technologically possble). --Happy editing! Sincerely, Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles Tally-ho! 15:04, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
Along these lines, I've been wondering about the possibility of keeping some of these deleted pages within Wikipedia, just not in the main-space. I suspect that if we went to the offices of the Encyclopedia Britanica, we'd find numerous file cabinets with articles with material that the editors determined was not fit for the printed edition. There is a middle ground between trash and material suitable for the main space. Keeping this material in our "back files" instead of deleting them would have several advantages:
As an experiment, I created some dummy accounts in the user space to hold these pages. The main account is User:Back files. I own the account, but I do not use it for editing. Several months ago, after an AFD discussion deleted List of songs with numbers in the title, I moved it to a subpage of one of my dummy user accounts. It is now at User:Wikilists/List of songs with numbers in the title. Some of the editors who worked on the page have continued to add information to the page.
I still believe that many pages should be deleted. I would not change any of the policies for speedy deletions. However many, if not most, of the other pages now deleted at AFD could be moved to user space instead. As far as I can tell, there is nothing against policy about moving deleted pages to user space so they can be worked on and improved. However, to make these pages more useful, there should be more links to these pages. I think it would be helpful if any page that gets moved would be replaced with a page that explains that there previously had been a page that was deemed unsuitable for the mainspace and also have a list of the reasons why the page was deemed unsuitable. It could then have a link to the moved page in userspace. There could also be links to similar pages outside of the project. This could be very much like a disambiguation page. As the back files fill, there would need to be templates created that make it very clear to users what the shortcomings are with the articles. It would also help if there was a taxonomy of categories for these pages. The taxonomy should be kept separate from the other categories, but could be linked when appropriate. For instance, there might be a subcategory of back files of song lists that is linked to Category:Lists of songs.
I think a collective userspace could work as long as it is transparent what the problems are with the articles in the space, and we have clear standards that help remove the trash. It might even make Wikipedia a much more pleasant place on the web. -- ☑ SamuelWantman 06:05, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
For known edit warriors, such as myself, has anyone ever considered banishing us to a Dust Box where we might fairly debate? This would save a lot of Admin time, and some of us might trade our freedom to openly edit on articles for a link to "Debate of the Day" on the Main Page. I'll open with an example that would become a hopeless edit war:
Hopeless edit-war bait |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Now that we have established that the genetic code is designed and there are no technologies based on Darwin, I further state: All new cosmology since the finding that the Balmer red-shift is inversely proportional to square-of-distance in presumed recessional velocities of stars has been used to patch up this very finding, and that includes quasars and black holes, neither of which are directly observable by anything but variations in predicted red-shifts. The Big Bang tautology also includes the creation of the Second Law of thermodynamics with the Bang, with no mechanistic explanation other than faith in Hawking, and no reading of his work by the vast majority of his faithful at any level of intelligence beyond para-quoted hearsay for the less-intelligent-than-him; that is to say, with no reading of his math and physics. Hawking is quoted as saying in an MIT seminar that there might be a supreme intelligence within Black Holes. His followers now claim this is the source of predicted Hawking Particles. Hence, faith in NO GOD is still faith. The apostles of NO GOD are Hawking and Darwin. |
Please vote on discuss this proposed policy.
Doug youvan (
talk) 05:07, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
If you want a truly uninterrupted, no gloves on, full out debate, maybe something should be set up off-site and linked to? -- Ned Scott 06:40, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
More flame-bait |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
I see no reason to counter GDI or ID. ID also includes panspermia, a theory attributable to Arhhenius, the same man that described chemical rates and activation energies. My thoughts are along the lines of this being an P universe, the daughter of a NP universe, wherein it is likely P!=NP. It appears that a progenitor biological event occurred in the NP universe. I believe that all science that is not connected to mathematics is inferior to science that is connected to mathematics. If one asks where is the math behind Darwin, we have the metaphor of the mathematical genetic algorithm (GA). An experimental reduction to practice of GA directed evolution is cited as my own work, yet I see no connection to anything as complicated as Darwinian theory. Mathematicians are pleased to either prove a theorem, or prove a theorem can’t be proved. If P!=NP, and the underlying math for certain biophysical phenomena is describable as NP, then there is no scientific solution to be found. For those who want to explain everything with science, P!=NP will be more limiting than even the Uncertainty Principle. It is ironic to see Pascal as both the father of combinatorics, and his own wager (Pascal’s Wager). It is also astounding to see the truthfulness of Einstein when he ran into the Uncertainty Principle. His work is all backed by mathematics and proved by experiment. Darwin and Hawking are at the other end of the spectrum: no mathematical proofs, no predictions, no confirming experiments, and no technology. Einstein’s technologies range from clock corrections on GPS satellites to nuclear reactors and H bombs. With Darwin and Hawking proved false by insoluble underlying NP math, no technology whatsoever is affected. Once confronted with NP phenomena, I personally find the book of Genesis to provide mathematical beauty via simplicity. Mathematical beauty is used by physicists to pick one theory over another on the basis of the winning theory having fewer variables. Genesis presents one variable, i.e., God. Pascal’s Wager takes this a bit further as to the logic of how one might want to bet. John Calvin’s work makes it somewhat more understandable. Doug youvan ( talk) 10:31, 2 July 2008 (UTC) |
Wikipedia is not a place for debating topics, it is a place for editing. If you cannot edit without deliberately causing conflict, you should not be here. Can we please put an end to this garbage? JohnnyMrNinja 18:02, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
I recently got a message on my talk page from an admin saying that I placed a speedy tag too quickly after the page creation. That may have been true but as the page stood it was certainly eligable as not asserting notability. I could have tagged the page with the notability tag but in my opinion this doesn't really fit as it makes no reference to the fact that the page could be speedily deleted. Indeed it says 'ultimately deleted' which to me suggests it's not going to be deleted for quite some time not the matter of minutes / hours it may be deleted in if it does get speedied. If I was a new editor and had my page speedied after reading the notability tag I'd be surprised to say the least. By putting the speedy tag on the page it makes the editor aware that they need to assert notability but also alets admins to the page which means it may be gone before they get the chance. Is it worth creating a template along the lines of "this page appears eligable for speedy deletion and needs an assertion of notability if this is to be avoided" as an intermediate step. If one is not fortcoming in say an hour then the speedy tag could be added. This way the editor gets a chance to update the page if they can but the page can still be tagged by those who patrol new pages so making it less likely to be missed then if we just avoid putting the tag on for, say, the first hour. The only other speedy criteria I could see something similar applying to is the copyright tag. Sorry if this has been raised before. Dpmuk ( talk) 21:38, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
{{
hangon}}
.
seresin (
¡? ) 21:58, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
Would there be any opposition to adding purge to the navigation (...history, watch, purge)? Or, possibly, to the toolbox? I can never remember how to do it and I have to look it up everytime. It seems as though it would be more helpful than harmful. Thoughts? JohnnyMrNinja 05:15, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
Now that the majority of navboxes are collapsible should the printable version expand these all so they should when printing? Gnevin ( talk) 09:29, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
Please speak up at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Adminbots. Thank you. rootology ( T) 13:12, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
The sensible way to edit a large, oft frequented discussion page is by clicking on 'new section' or the 'edit' link next to the section of interest. Otherwise, one must search for the relevant section within the edit window and deal with the horror of edit-conflicts. Currently on pages like the Science Reference desk et al., the 'edit this page' link is bold and the 'new section' link is regular, leading to me accidentally being drawn to the bold link when I want the regular one. Indeed, I imagine few people ever need the 'edit this page' button on the reference desks. I suggest that the 'new section' link is made bold and the 'edit this page' link is made regular, so that people are drawn to what is probably the correct link out of the two. ---- Seans Potato Business 17:29, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
I think users commenting misunderstood my prior post which can be seen here: [ [1]] . It is my understanding that subscription websites compile data because it is hard to get, not because they pay for it. I do not suggest that people get a subscription and post the data on Wikipedia, but I do suggest that Wikipedia acts as a mechanism for people that compile data on their own to post the data. Thus, the service other webpages provided of searching for and compiling data would no longer be necessary. Academics could easily post data they have collected, provided they did not think they could make money off of it because perceived demand is low.
Many datasets would come up in Wikipedia when many researchers might not even know that data existed, and people could make use of already collected data when they do not have the resources to compile data on their own.
The idea is to create a new system, not to steal from the old. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.37.94.10 ( talk) 20:07, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Strong Support Such a separate DataCommons would be a good place to use the Semantic Wiki tools so that the data could be reused in different ways. If the data in the Wikipedia Infoboxes were moved to there then that data could be available in every language wiki. Once one language had created a template to import the data then other languages could have the same by just localising the template. However this idea needs to be raised on Meta since it affects much more than the English WP.
In the meantime, is there a way that info from WikiSpecies can be transcluded into en.WP taxoboxes? Where can I learn about doing that? Filceolaire ( talk) 10:26, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
Following a poll on this village pump ( here) and a recent software change, I have proposed implementing a move of the search bar here. Any thoughts or comments are much appreciated on that talk page. -- MZMcBride ( talk) 08:18, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
There are several long tables on Wikipedia. Take the List of unit testing frameworks for instance. Wouldn't it be nice to have a way to filter out only the results for operating system X, language Y, or licence Z. Maarten Tromp 14:30, 1 July 2008 (CEST)
I'm posting this here rather than to Bot Approvals since I think it requires more general discussion before formulating the proposal, being a social issue as much as a technical one.
I wrote and manage PseudoBot, which reverts the addition of redlinks/no-links/links-to-disambiguation-pages to the Births or Deaths sections of the date pages (e.g. 1986 or October 15) made by anonymous users or recently-registered users. This is in line with the date page policy.
I've now had a couple of people ask if I could do the same for list-sections of other articles, and given that I do a lot of recent-changes patrolling and anti-vandalism, I can certainly see the appeal - some sections seem to attract vanity and attack entries. Things that come to mind are the "Notable Alumni" sections of certain schools, "Famous Residents" of certain towns/villages, and "List of Famous Fooizens" where Foo is some country or other.
If done right, registering a section with the bot could be a less-intrusive version of semi-protection, prevent a lot of junk, and save a lot of wasted time. If done wrong, it could restrict genuine edits and bite newbies. In any case, I think it'd be best restricted to only reverting non-autoconfirmed users - that way if something is mis-reverted, any autoconfirmed editor can reinstate the text, and the bot shouldn't touch it again.
Building the bot would be technically easy; there are many ways in which sections could be registered with the bot, I've already thought of quite a lot of them, and (though it's not my place to tell people what to discuss) I think that deciding on such mechanisms are best left until the Bot Approvals stage, lest we argue about what colour to paint the bicycle sheds.
What I'd like opinions on:
Pseudomonas( talk) 13:17, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
WHile I think this could be good and useful if done right, it may upset a lot of people. You'd have to be careful with it's coding and usage. — Rlevse • Talk • 20:22, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
I'm generally in favor. A few thoughts:
All in all, I think this is a well needed task, and I encourage you to submit a bot request. – Quadell ( talk) ( random) 14:08, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
P.S. Similar non-list sections are also highly susceptible to such vanity additions, e.g. adding your non-notable band to your city's page. (In this example the link is blue, but you get the idea.) Should this bot handle non-list entries as well? – Quadell ( talk) ( random) 12:42, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
Hi all.
I would like to request your attention to a vote that will start this midnight, regarding a rearrangement of the top ten Wikipedias that are displayed on the main wikipedia portal ( http://www.wikipedia.org).
This topic has been wandering around for a long time on Talk:www.wikipedia.org template, coming to surface in many occasions, especially on the times around the milestone of 100.000 articles of the Chinese and Russian Wikipedias.
After a tentative wrap-up of all the proposals made in that page throughout the months in Talk:www.wikipedia.org template#rethinking the top ten, a discussion was launched in Top Ten Wikipedias, to which all the major Wikipedias have been invited to in their village pump.
A lot of good opinions have been collected and discussed, and a vote proposal has been made and received some feedback. That proposal was now implemented on Metapub. Please head to the poll to vote. I hope to see you there! -- Waldir talk 12:46, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
I have had trouble finding a specific word or phrase within a article using the standard find function which only seems to work well on .txt type of files, not html. I was wondering if others were having the same problem if wikipedia could add a search function to search within an article for specified words or phrases using double quotes("), to delimit a phrase? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.243.178.196 ( talk) 21:37, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
Please ignore if others are not having this problem. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.243.178.196 ( talk) 21:44, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
I think that there should be an option in a user's preferences, after unified login is enabled on their account, to temporarily disable it, or to temporarily disable the creation of accounts on other wikis just by browsing to them while logged on. I don't like accidentally creating accounts that I'm never going to use on other-language Wikipedias that I've only visited once. — Insanity Incarnat e 21:30, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
I would find it very useful if there was a way mass watch pages. I'm not aware of such a function on Wikipedia, but perhaps there is. What I have in mind is the ability to watch either all the pages tagged with a specific Wikiproject, or all the pages within a category. This way if you become interested in say, military history, then you could watch all the pages tagged with {{ WikiProject Military history}}, or something. Headbomb { ταλκ – WP Physics: PotW} 01:37, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
Just edit your raw watchlist and paste a list of articles into it.
1 != 2 15:41, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
I see that the navigation bar in the left has been tampered (i.e. the headings not capitalized.The background of wikipedia too looks little rusty at
http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/monobook/headbg.jpg
The background I think is not needed.
I also want to make the logo colorful (but not change it).
What do you all think at my comments.
• Autographed by RRaunak • Wanna meet him ? •
Jimmy Wales appeared on the TV show Squawk Box this morning, and in the hour he was on, the article about the host Rebecca Quick was treated savagely. Another user suggested here that Wikimedia staff and Board should, by policy, warn the community before noteworthy public broadcast appearances, so that the related pages (about the show, about the host, etc.) can be temporarily protected for 24 hours or so. This would save a lot of embarrassment. I saw the show this morning, and Becky Quick was mortified by some thing she saw on her biographical page. This could so easily be prevented, yet Jimmy Wales and the male co-host seemed almost titillated by the prospect of sexually offending Quick. The other user who suggested a policy change was basically drummed off the Rebecca Quick talk page, which is also shameful. Why this culture of "we don't care how much we offend living people"?
Go Green Go White ( talk) 22:22, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
Remember though that "the community" consists of more than the English Wikipedia. If the foundation did give prior notice for things like this, it would likely not be made on WP:AN or elsewhere on the wiki. It would be made on meta or more likely on the foundation-l mailing list perhaps cc'd to wikiEN-l (all of which would also be better places for this proposal as well). Mr. Z-man 23:35, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
I propose that we slow down the proposals, and make sure that we have gathered a fairly large audience and opinion on them. We archive them manually afterwards. We could even start listing a history of proposals by category, and when people come up with similar proposals, refer back to them. We should only have a few proposals going on at a time, and while those are going on, others will have to wait. That will give people who think they have a good proposal an incentive to comment on the ones existing. In the meantime they can write their proposal up as a subpage. There is not a huge hurry. It is more important that we actually address some of the ideas raised here. II | ( t - c) 03:35, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
This proposal has two parts
Bots deal with non-controversial and mindless tasks. If a bot makes a controversial edit it risks loosing its bot flag and the bots operator risks blocks or other sanctions. Bot operators are rational people who do not use their bots to cause disruption.
The idea behind this is that mindless tasks such as the fixing of Special:DoubleRedirects frequently hits "protected pages". These pages were protected due to edit wars, vandalism, or some other form of disruption often far back ago when semi-protection was not available.
The other alternative to this is granting an admin flag to bots so that they can edit such protected pages. This is something I do not believe is preferable over to my proposal.
-- Cat chi? 13:14, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
If DoubleRedirects hit protected pages, it is probably a good idea to check whether they really need to be protected. I'd rather have a human admin decide between unprotection and editing through protection in such a case than treat everything the same. How many times does this come up anyway (any data?) Other bot work (like recategorisation after CFD) is already done by bots running on admin accounts. Interwikibots shouldn't be able to edit through protection, as there are (rarely) contentious disputes about this question (for which an extra permissions/protection group is probably overkill). Kusma ( talk) 15:53, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
Why dont we rate articles like uncyclopedia. I would be a great Idea to rate pages with 5 stars down the navigation panel
[+] • Autographed and Signed by RRaunak • [+]
11:07, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
Ok, I've done this way too often. I make an edit, write the edit summary, and click "Save page", only to notice that I completely misspelled a word. At this point, there is nothing I can do about it other than hope nobody looks at my contributions. My proposal is being able to edit your own edit summaries. I brought up this discussion on one of the Wikipedia IRC channels, and there were plenty of ideas. The first is only letting admins edit summaries, and letting people make requests for them, because there is fear that other users would abbuse it, and possibly fabricate them. The other is only being able to make minor edits to fix typos, and prohibit completely rewriting the edit summary. I know this sounds odd, but some people (myself included) think this would be something that would make editing a little easier. Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 17:06, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
It was really not a good idea to start a poll without talking about the same thing.
The current proposal and bugzilla discussion can be found here. It asks for a mechanism to correct edit summaries (1) if it is your own edit (2) and if it is the last edit (3) during a short time span. This exact same mechanism is implemented in most online forum systems and has proven its efficacy and safety. Under these restrictions (own, last, recent), there is absolutely no potential for abuse (e.g. any following edit would make the previous summary permanent). At the same time you keep the benefits such as fixing accidentally empty summaries, switched summaries (when you have many tabs open), and half-completed raw summaries.
I am sure that many of the opposing users (as well as some supporting users which were obviously voting for a different mechanism) would actually support such an implementation under these restrictions. Again, this is not about allowing administrators to change summaries, not about allowing admin candidates to white-wash their editing history, and not about giving vandals any type of new toy. It would just be a nice feature to make editing Wikipedia easier - nothing more and nothing less. Cacycle ( talk) 03:28, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
Please participate in the discussion of the "official feature request" for this under https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13937. Cacycle 19:16, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
A number of editors have been around for years and have made thousands of edits, but are not necessarily interested in becoming admins. Nevertheless, such editors do participate in deletion reviews and requests for adminship discussions where seeing deleted contributions would indeed be relevant and helpful to assess the articles and candidates under discussion. Therefore, I propose that we come with a criteria by which established and experienced editors who have been editing for years and who have thousands of edits be able to see (not undelete, just see) deleted contribs for the purposes of such discussions. I am sure that it is somehow technologically possible to allow such editors to see the contribs without tacking on the undelete function. Sincerely, -- Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles Tally-ho! 20:07, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Please, someone, centralize this discussion. I've posted quite heavily on this subject at the Wikipedia_talk: page, but it would seem that that is one of multiple places this discussion is taking place. Only one page is needed. Pick one please, and merge the two pages. -- MZMcBride ( talk) 03:31, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
In reply to above, the present system of admins saying they will give copys of deleted articles is with caveats. No copyvios, no BLP, nothing that would be inappropriate for the general public. I know I have deleted, and I have seen deleted information in articles that is not suitable for the masses or the average editor to have access to. As for the average editor seeing their deleted contributions, I don't think that is what this proposal is for. This is for people with a genuine need. Curiosity is not a genuine need. The idea of skipping the middle man is moot for the reasons I have just mentioned. If this going to be implemented the requirements would be on par with a successful RfA. Community trust, no real history of blocks or abuse, etc. I think if someone wants this ability they need to demonstrate they could pass an RfA if they attempted one. KnightLago ( talk) 19:07, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
FWIW, The software support for tiered deletion is pretty much done, though it's still in code review and not turned on yet. Once its activated deciding how to use it is up to the community. Cheers. -- Gmaxwell ( talk) 20:35, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
I just reread the entire discussion again and I admit there are a few promising ideas. The high standard with close to RFA like requirements I was arguing for would be for a general view deleted privilege. I don't like the idea of such a thing and think there would be more than a few problems with it. As Davidwr said, Copyvios, BLP information, libel, attack pages, etc. would be available to the public with no real need to see the information other than curiosity. While I agree that the risk of a lawsuit is not high, the possibility becomes greater. Besides that, the idea of RFA and DRV only deleted viewing is interesting and after thinking about it I recognize there is a genuine need, so I would be for that. Regarding viewing your own deleted edits, maybe after a certain time limit and/or edit count this could be allowed. The problem would be new users continually recreating deleted content or trolls if the limit/ability is set too low. As for the tiered-deletion system, after reading it I am not exactly sure what the parameters are or how much it could be applied to this proposal. Right now it look more geared to admins and deleted information viewable to them and to what extent. A tiered deletion system sounds interesting, but the details need to be greatly expanded upon before I can offer a real opinion. After reading all of this, the question I have is which proposal is being advanced right now? Because there are a lot of ideas that have been thrown out on this page, but there needs to be some direction in order to focus on the details of the proposal. KnightLago ( talk) 23:52, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
This section has gotten a bit crowded so I thought I would summarize the idea that I am proposing.
I don't think that it would be that big of a deal if these users had access to the lowest tier of articles, and those users may be able to improve the article to fix any notability issues. -- Imperator3733 ( talk) 20:34, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
There's a bit of a mess currently regarding various uses of symbols involving a number of stars.
For example:
The disambig at Four Star page lists some articles related to four star and has a see also section which lists more articles related to four and other numbers of stars. Both lists are incomplete, and the second is probably inappropriate. The presence of the other numbers of stars here indicates a more general problem to me.
Three Star redirects to Three Star Club, again no hatnote at the target, and there seems to be no disambig for three stars.
Five Star (disambiguation) has a similar structure to the Four Star disambig.
Before starting to tidy this up, I'm inviting discussion. We may even end up writing a guideline, but let's first work out some sort of consensus as to what we should do.
Or, is there already a relevant guideline that I'm overlooking?
Issues:
Comments sought of course. Also some help with the cleanup in due course. The survey of existing practice above isn't exhaustive, but enough that I thought I should seek some other input at this stage. Andrewa ( talk) 17:39, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for comments so far... let's continue at Talk:Star (classification)/Archives/2013#Related articles and redirects. Andrewa ( talk) 19:23, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
Hi. I believe adding a link to Special:NewPages under the interaction section of the Wikipedia Sidebar would increase patrolling of those pages and make it easier to do so. What do you all think about doing that? - Preceding unsigned comment added by SunDragon34 ( Talk) at 23:09, 11 July 2008
We use Wikipedia for a number of uses, but mostly for our genealogy research for various families. Much of our time is spent sifting through the various European castles to find out which were build in specific centuries. It would be extremely helpful to us and other researchers, if wikipedia would create a page that lists the various castles by the century in which they were built.
For example, just the other day, we were searching for a Danish 11th century castle; however, to our misfortune, we could not find one on wikipedia. It would not only save us hours, days, weeks, and even sometimes months of searching, but it would also assist many others people/ groups in their various forms of research.
We wrote to Wikipedia concerning this matter, and we received a reply from a Phil Sandifer suggesting we use this form to make our proposal/ suggestions. We sincerely hop you will consider our proposal. Thank you for your time.
After Rjd0060 discussed this idea with me, I was bold and created a new proposed "request for permissions page" which would handle all admin-granted requests for permission here. It would basically keep it all organised onto one page. The page would handle rollback, IPblockexempt and account creator flags. It would be based on the current RfR page and the permissions could be granted by any admin after a flick through a users contribs/logs. Let me know your thoughts at Wikipedia talk:Requests for permissions. Ryan Postlethwaite 23:21, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
I had a go at hacking together something roughly like this at User:Tiny plastic Grey Knight/scripts/suldropdown.js. Please see my monobook.js for an example of how to import the script and customise the menu. There are still several bugs, but nothing dangerous. You need to add such an import statement on each project where you want the menu to appear, it won't follow you around.
Most annoying bugs so far: On
Internet Exploder, the lists still have bullet marks and the first project isn't selectable. The menu seems to jump behind the main page-block (#content
) unless I set #content
's z-index to 0; setting the menu's z-index to anything seems to have no effect.
Opinions and bugfixes are welcome! -- tiny plastic Grey Knight ⊖ 08:27, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
When was the sidebar changed??? I don't really mind the search box being moved up, but its new name is terrible. Find is not the right term for that. There really needs to be more community input before changing something affecting everything on enwiki. Reywas92 Talk 18:57, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
In common web browser parlance, "search" = "find pages which match this input" and "find" = "search the current page for this input", for better or worse. Drive it on a parkway and park it in a driveway, your mileage may vary. — CharlotteWebb 13:22, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
Per a brief discussion at User talk:Ed Fitzgerald#Spacing?, how would people feel about this?:
#toc { margin-top: 10px; }
— Wknight94 ( talk) 18:24, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
It might be better to use some relative units (e.g., 3% or 1.5em) instead of 10px. -- Taku ( talk) 23:32, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
The maintainers of the List of basic opera topics have renamed that list to List of opera topics. That page has the same scope and the same standard format as the rest of the basic topic lists. And the set of pages called Lists of topics that it has been moved into are comprehensive in scope. The page is clearly a member of the wrong set of pages now.
I propose that the Lists of basic topics be kept together, and that they retain the standard names of the set they belong to. If they are to be renamed, they should be renamed together as a set, as in the proposal in the previous section above.
If the pages can be renamed by local consensus individually on each one's talk page, then the discussion in the previous section above won't make much difference, as any of the pages could be renamed by anybody at anytime on a whim. Every time a page is moved out of the set, it creates a hole in the set's coverage, or at least has the potential to create confusion over what the purpose and scope of the renamed page is.
List of opera topics should be renamed back to List of basic opera topics, since that matches the naming convention currently in use for the set it was designed to be a part of. And if the discussion in the previous section above determines a new name for the set, it should apply to its opera component as well. The Transhumanist 19:22, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
While the main page redesign proposal is an good idea for giving the site a cleaner yet prettier look, I have another concern.
I mean, given Wikipedia's international/multi-lingual goal, the word Wikipedia might be a tough word to pronounce in different tongues. While it is pretty easy and familiar to us English speakers, I fear others might stumble upon the syllables. Think about the Simple English Wikipedia. Marlith (Talk) 00:08, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, just a note. Nothing huge...
a) The name is just fine, it is recognizable and people figure out we are an encyclopedia quickly, b) it is far to late to change it now. 1 != 2 15:39, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
a) Actually, I agree with the original poster, I've always thought the name weird, misleading, and a touch off-putting. I've always thought so, right from the start. Is it too late to change it? Yeah, probably (but see below). But how much nicer if the name were "wepedia" or "ourpedia" or "netpedia" (all of which have probably been taken by commercial interests by now!), for example. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've always thought the word "wiki" had to do with a rather strange new-age cultish semi-religion, and could never figure out why in the world this public encyclopedia used it, unless, of course, this public internet encyclopedia was actually started by wiki-practitioners. And, as I think about it more, a name change would be a fantastic public relations event, with tremendous promotion. Look at all the free publicity Esso got when the conglomerate of Esso, Enco and ... well, whatever the other one was ... changed their name to Exxon. The technical difficulties are nothing; retaining the ownership of the name wiki, simply have a redirect to the "ourpedia" home page, and I have no doubt google is smart enough to figure out how to redirect searches that include wiki to include everything relevent in "ourpedia". This also brings up an interesting challenge for linquists; what single word is the most universal word in the world meaning "all of us"? Personally, I haven't the faintest idea (what a laugh it would be if the word turned out to be "wiki") what it is, but it's worth taking a look at.
Currently subcategories are sorted alphabetically like regular articles. This creates the need to look through the entire category to find all of the subcategories, unless the person adding the subcat cleverly used some special text. I propose that subcategories are alphabetically placed before articles within a category, always placing all subcategories at the beginning of a category. The only undesirable effect that I can foresee is that subcategories would then require their own TOC when the numbers reach 500+, but most categories do not contain nearly this many subcategories, so this would come up rarely. Thoughts? JohnnyMrNinja 09:49, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
(undent) I suggest starting a discussion on the talk page of WP:CAT, and perhaps a cross-reference posting on the talk page of WP:SUBCAT, to see if there is general support for this. I think it's a good idea. (The only disadvantage that I can see if for those very few higher-level categories where editors regularly move articles into subcategories; if there were more than 200 subcategories - which I'm guessing is infrequent - then the first page of the category wouldn't show problem cases.) -- John Broughton (♫♫) 13:18, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
Just adding my support for Johnny's original proposal. I think the 200-per-page limit could be raised as well (would 500 be a problem?) -- Kotniski ( talk) 08:21, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
Adding my support as well. Having all subcatagories listed before listing any articles would be very helpful to me. The table of contents could be linked only to articles, as most categories have fewer than 200 sub categories and very few have so many that a separate table of contents would be of any real help. The table of contents indexing becomes more important as the number of pages of entries increases. Dbiel ( Talk) 22:38, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
I have filed a request to add functionality to my bot, specifically to update the various US city and town articles per the updated, official Census figures (which are the figures that should be used per WP:USCITY). The folks over at BAG suggested I would need more input from the community given the potential scope (there are approximately 19,500 incorporated places in the US), so I am bringing this up for attention here.
The actual functionality of the bot would be simple. The "population_total" field in the infobox would be updated to match the current Census figures, and the "population_footnotes" section would be updated to reflect the new source. Existing sources in that field would be maintained in the event they are used elsewhere in the article. The main body of the article would not be altered by the bot.
This bot would only affect the articles for incorporated places in the United States, as these are the only ones for which the Census releases annual estimate figures. Unincorporated communities would not fall under the scope of this work. I will make a link to this discussion so the BAG folks can take a peek at it. Feel free to comment here if you are interested. Thanks, Sher eth 15:26, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
Have the template modified to add the four fields:
<ref name="Latest estimates"/>
<ref name="Latest estimates"/>
<ref name="Latest estimates"/>
{{#if: est-population_total| (est: boo<ref name="Latest estimates"/>}}... ''however that field ends now.''
I presume the same kind of if-logic for the population output line, using "(Latest estimates<Your reference here>)", etc.I think it would useful if Wikipedia started a sister project called Wikinnovations. The idea is to take open-source development to the masses. If a layman has an idea for an innovation for a product, software or service, he could post it to the site. People could comment on or add ideas to the innovation.
Think about all of the times you've thought, "wouldn't it be nice if . . ." and then the idea slips into your next thoughts as quickly as it came. You could "twitter" the passing idea to Wikinnovations and it would become a seed for a new product or more ideas. Think about all of the people with ideas for applications on iPhone, but do not code or are too busy to bother themselves with the idea. Many people have probably had ideas for incremental improvements on their car or refrigerator, but will not be competing with GM or GE in the near future.
Eventually, most products, software and services would be categorized with its respective wish list of future features and discussions. The ideas could then be rated by users for usefulness or need. The best ideas would float to the top. Marketers could mine the site for good ideas and pursue innovations that have sufficient market pull. This site could substantially accelerate the evolution of products and meet the needs of people in rapidly changing environments.
David Kern Roberts
I would like a subpages tab, like the history tab, that creates a dynamic list of every subpage (and the subpage of every subpage) for a given page on WP. It would make finding things much simpler, it would also help towards keeping WP more transparent. I personally can't remember how to get to half the junk I have under my userpage, and it would be very nice to browse through all the subpages of WP:VG. JohnnyMrNinja 06:16, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
From this discussion Emmanuelm came up with the idea of Wikipedia for kids (lovingly called "wikipediakids") and I strongly support this idea; Wikipedia is not censored, and it should be that way, but it leaves us with the problem of possibly leaving out an internet minority with unsuitable content. If "wikipediakids" was considered and debated, I propose this set of basic prinicples that would differ from the 'pedia we know and love:
That's all I can think of. Tell me your ideas! Or crush mine, either/or. Leonard( Bloom) 03:34, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
It's a tricky one. The point of Wikipedia is that anybody can edit it, but should always verify information with citations, & their edits may be challenged by other users. That doesn't translate too well for children, who are unlikely to be able to follow Wikipedia's rules and guidelines on content, editing, style, references, etc. & If all those rules were relaxed, so that (for example) children could add unreferenced content & POV comments, it would quickly degenerate into a very poor quality encyclopedia. If, on the other hand, WPKids was edited by adult users, & children themselves could not edit it, it would not be significantly different from any of the children's encyclopedias you can get on CD-Rom. Weasel Fetlocks ( talk) 14:18, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
I think this idea of a Wikipedia for children would turn out to be largely redundant with the already existent Simple English Wikipedia; while the latter project is not designed especially for children, it is written specifically in non-technical and easy-to-understand language. -- Anonymous Dissident Talk 08:39, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I am thinking about starting a WikiProject to use as an example or other general purposes. Which name would be preferable?
Also, I would like to know if there are any admin who would be willing to help keep it sane. This is basically going to turn into a sandbox like area, so a little administrative oversight would be appreciated. It would have its own banner for other pages which are similar, and possibly its own assessment section. - LA @ 04:06, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
I think I will suggest WikiProject Sandbox. There will be a few static pages, however, this will be the WikiProject that can be used to test various templates. Example would be a C or B class top-importance article of this project since one aim would be to create a suite of example pages throughout Wikipedia. Wikipedia:Sandbox would also be part of it, and every user who wants their sandboxes in it. So, part serious, part playground is the idea. - LA @ 18:04, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
I have proposed this at the WikiProject council. Thanks for your help in choosing the name! - LA @ 21:08, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
Hello to the editors of Wikipedia!
My name is Wiley Coleman, Inside Sales Representative of ingage, Inc. I am contacting you regarding a possible future working relationship between the Wikimedia Foundation and ingage, as I believe we offer a product that could be of great value to you.
ingage is a digital publishing company. We cost effectively convert print media into digital, online, page flipping, interactive documents. Essentially, we give the user the feel of reading an actual piece of printed material. My idea is to incorporate our page flipping technology to the projects of the Wikimedia Foundation. There would be no more scrolling up and down, you would be flipping the pages just as if it was an actual physical encyclopedia (and it would have interactive features that make it extremely easy to move throughout the entire document). I will include a sample with this email so you can get a better feel for the product, see how it works, and see how it could benefit you. I would be glad to follow up with another email or phone call to outline more information about ingage and discuss this possibility further. We are excited about the possibility of working with the team at the Wikimedia Foundation and I look forward to hearing back from you. I can be contacted at wiley@ingageinteractive.com .
Sample – http://publications.ingagepublication.com/BRIERCREEKMAGAZINE07/
Thank you! Wiley Coleman
You may, of course, speak with the foundation (foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org) or technical team (wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org). — Werdna • talk 04:30, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
This page contains discussions that have been archived from Village pump (proposals). Please do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to revive any of these discussions, either start a new thread or use the talk page associated with that topic.
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The thing about transwiking is that a lot of readers and editors come here for these articles and there is an element of convenience just navigating around one main wiki rather than googling for other specialized wikis and I believe that Wikipedia attracts a lot more editors than these other wikis, which augments the likelihood of us covering some of these articles even better than the other wikis do. Now, granted our articles when transwikied thus carry that work over to the other wikis, but then editors and readers who had worked on or used the articles here are oftentimes baffled when it's all of a sudden no longer here. An idea could be something like having internal links that can allow for easier navigation among the wikis. Or having deleted pages that are transwikied somehow redirected to the transwikied page (that has to somehow be technologically possble). --Happy editing! Sincerely, Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles Tally-ho! 15:04, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
Along these lines, I've been wondering about the possibility of keeping some of these deleted pages within Wikipedia, just not in the main-space. I suspect that if we went to the offices of the Encyclopedia Britanica, we'd find numerous file cabinets with articles with material that the editors determined was not fit for the printed edition. There is a middle ground between trash and material suitable for the main space. Keeping this material in our "back files" instead of deleting them would have several advantages:
As an experiment, I created some dummy accounts in the user space to hold these pages. The main account is User:Back files. I own the account, but I do not use it for editing. Several months ago, after an AFD discussion deleted List of songs with numbers in the title, I moved it to a subpage of one of my dummy user accounts. It is now at User:Wikilists/List of songs with numbers in the title. Some of the editors who worked on the page have continued to add information to the page.
I still believe that many pages should be deleted. I would not change any of the policies for speedy deletions. However many, if not most, of the other pages now deleted at AFD could be moved to user space instead. As far as I can tell, there is nothing against policy about moving deleted pages to user space so they can be worked on and improved. However, to make these pages more useful, there should be more links to these pages. I think it would be helpful if any page that gets moved would be replaced with a page that explains that there previously had been a page that was deemed unsuitable for the mainspace and also have a list of the reasons why the page was deemed unsuitable. It could then have a link to the moved page in userspace. There could also be links to similar pages outside of the project. This could be very much like a disambiguation page. As the back files fill, there would need to be templates created that make it very clear to users what the shortcomings are with the articles. It would also help if there was a taxonomy of categories for these pages. The taxonomy should be kept separate from the other categories, but could be linked when appropriate. For instance, there might be a subcategory of back files of song lists that is linked to Category:Lists of songs.
I think a collective userspace could work as long as it is transparent what the problems are with the articles in the space, and we have clear standards that help remove the trash. It might even make Wikipedia a much more pleasant place on the web. -- ☑ SamuelWantman 06:05, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
For known edit warriors, such as myself, has anyone ever considered banishing us to a Dust Box where we might fairly debate? This would save a lot of Admin time, and some of us might trade our freedom to openly edit on articles for a link to "Debate of the Day" on the Main Page. I'll open with an example that would become a hopeless edit war:
Hopeless edit-war bait |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
Now that we have established that the genetic code is designed and there are no technologies based on Darwin, I further state: All new cosmology since the finding that the Balmer red-shift is inversely proportional to square-of-distance in presumed recessional velocities of stars has been used to patch up this very finding, and that includes quasars and black holes, neither of which are directly observable by anything but variations in predicted red-shifts. The Big Bang tautology also includes the creation of the Second Law of thermodynamics with the Bang, with no mechanistic explanation other than faith in Hawking, and no reading of his work by the vast majority of his faithful at any level of intelligence beyond para-quoted hearsay for the less-intelligent-than-him; that is to say, with no reading of his math and physics. Hawking is quoted as saying in an MIT seminar that there might be a supreme intelligence within Black Holes. His followers now claim this is the source of predicted Hawking Particles. Hence, faith in NO GOD is still faith. The apostles of NO GOD are Hawking and Darwin. |
Please vote on discuss this proposed policy.
Doug youvan (
talk) 05:07, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
If you want a truly uninterrupted, no gloves on, full out debate, maybe something should be set up off-site and linked to? -- Ned Scott 06:40, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
More flame-bait |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
I see no reason to counter GDI or ID. ID also includes panspermia, a theory attributable to Arhhenius, the same man that described chemical rates and activation energies. My thoughts are along the lines of this being an P universe, the daughter of a NP universe, wherein it is likely P!=NP. It appears that a progenitor biological event occurred in the NP universe. I believe that all science that is not connected to mathematics is inferior to science that is connected to mathematics. If one asks where is the math behind Darwin, we have the metaphor of the mathematical genetic algorithm (GA). An experimental reduction to practice of GA directed evolution is cited as my own work, yet I see no connection to anything as complicated as Darwinian theory. Mathematicians are pleased to either prove a theorem, or prove a theorem can’t be proved. If P!=NP, and the underlying math for certain biophysical phenomena is describable as NP, then there is no scientific solution to be found. For those who want to explain everything with science, P!=NP will be more limiting than even the Uncertainty Principle. It is ironic to see Pascal as both the father of combinatorics, and his own wager (Pascal’s Wager). It is also astounding to see the truthfulness of Einstein when he ran into the Uncertainty Principle. His work is all backed by mathematics and proved by experiment. Darwin and Hawking are at the other end of the spectrum: no mathematical proofs, no predictions, no confirming experiments, and no technology. Einstein’s technologies range from clock corrections on GPS satellites to nuclear reactors and H bombs. With Darwin and Hawking proved false by insoluble underlying NP math, no technology whatsoever is affected. Once confronted with NP phenomena, I personally find the book of Genesis to provide mathematical beauty via simplicity. Mathematical beauty is used by physicists to pick one theory over another on the basis of the winning theory having fewer variables. Genesis presents one variable, i.e., God. Pascal’s Wager takes this a bit further as to the logic of how one might want to bet. John Calvin’s work makes it somewhat more understandable. Doug youvan ( talk) 10:31, 2 July 2008 (UTC) |
Wikipedia is not a place for debating topics, it is a place for editing. If you cannot edit without deliberately causing conflict, you should not be here. Can we please put an end to this garbage? JohnnyMrNinja 18:02, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
I recently got a message on my talk page from an admin saying that I placed a speedy tag too quickly after the page creation. That may have been true but as the page stood it was certainly eligable as not asserting notability. I could have tagged the page with the notability tag but in my opinion this doesn't really fit as it makes no reference to the fact that the page could be speedily deleted. Indeed it says 'ultimately deleted' which to me suggests it's not going to be deleted for quite some time not the matter of minutes / hours it may be deleted in if it does get speedied. If I was a new editor and had my page speedied after reading the notability tag I'd be surprised to say the least. By putting the speedy tag on the page it makes the editor aware that they need to assert notability but also alets admins to the page which means it may be gone before they get the chance. Is it worth creating a template along the lines of "this page appears eligable for speedy deletion and needs an assertion of notability if this is to be avoided" as an intermediate step. If one is not fortcoming in say an hour then the speedy tag could be added. This way the editor gets a chance to update the page if they can but the page can still be tagged by those who patrol new pages so making it less likely to be missed then if we just avoid putting the tag on for, say, the first hour. The only other speedy criteria I could see something similar applying to is the copyright tag. Sorry if this has been raised before. Dpmuk ( talk) 21:38, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
{{
hangon}}
.
seresin (
¡? ) 21:58, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
Would there be any opposition to adding purge to the navigation (...history, watch, purge)? Or, possibly, to the toolbox? I can never remember how to do it and I have to look it up everytime. It seems as though it would be more helpful than harmful. Thoughts? JohnnyMrNinja 05:15, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
Now that the majority of navboxes are collapsible should the printable version expand these all so they should when printing? Gnevin ( talk) 09:29, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
Please speak up at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Adminbots. Thank you. rootology ( T) 13:12, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
The sensible way to edit a large, oft frequented discussion page is by clicking on 'new section' or the 'edit' link next to the section of interest. Otherwise, one must search for the relevant section within the edit window and deal with the horror of edit-conflicts. Currently on pages like the Science Reference desk et al., the 'edit this page' link is bold and the 'new section' link is regular, leading to me accidentally being drawn to the bold link when I want the regular one. Indeed, I imagine few people ever need the 'edit this page' button on the reference desks. I suggest that the 'new section' link is made bold and the 'edit this page' link is made regular, so that people are drawn to what is probably the correct link out of the two. ---- Seans Potato Business 17:29, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
I think users commenting misunderstood my prior post which can be seen here: [ [1]] . It is my understanding that subscription websites compile data because it is hard to get, not because they pay for it. I do not suggest that people get a subscription and post the data on Wikipedia, but I do suggest that Wikipedia acts as a mechanism for people that compile data on their own to post the data. Thus, the service other webpages provided of searching for and compiling data would no longer be necessary. Academics could easily post data they have collected, provided they did not think they could make money off of it because perceived demand is low.
Many datasets would come up in Wikipedia when many researchers might not even know that data existed, and people could make use of already collected data when they do not have the resources to compile data on their own.
The idea is to create a new system, not to steal from the old. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.37.94.10 ( talk) 20:07, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Strong Support Such a separate DataCommons would be a good place to use the Semantic Wiki tools so that the data could be reused in different ways. If the data in the Wikipedia Infoboxes were moved to there then that data could be available in every language wiki. Once one language had created a template to import the data then other languages could have the same by just localising the template. However this idea needs to be raised on Meta since it affects much more than the English WP.
In the meantime, is there a way that info from WikiSpecies can be transcluded into en.WP taxoboxes? Where can I learn about doing that? Filceolaire ( talk) 10:26, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
Following a poll on this village pump ( here) and a recent software change, I have proposed implementing a move of the search bar here. Any thoughts or comments are much appreciated on that talk page. -- MZMcBride ( talk) 08:18, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
There are several long tables on Wikipedia. Take the List of unit testing frameworks for instance. Wouldn't it be nice to have a way to filter out only the results for operating system X, language Y, or licence Z. Maarten Tromp 14:30, 1 July 2008 (CEST)
I'm posting this here rather than to Bot Approvals since I think it requires more general discussion before formulating the proposal, being a social issue as much as a technical one.
I wrote and manage PseudoBot, which reverts the addition of redlinks/no-links/links-to-disambiguation-pages to the Births or Deaths sections of the date pages (e.g. 1986 or October 15) made by anonymous users or recently-registered users. This is in line with the date page policy.
I've now had a couple of people ask if I could do the same for list-sections of other articles, and given that I do a lot of recent-changes patrolling and anti-vandalism, I can certainly see the appeal - some sections seem to attract vanity and attack entries. Things that come to mind are the "Notable Alumni" sections of certain schools, "Famous Residents" of certain towns/villages, and "List of Famous Fooizens" where Foo is some country or other.
If done right, registering a section with the bot could be a less-intrusive version of semi-protection, prevent a lot of junk, and save a lot of wasted time. If done wrong, it could restrict genuine edits and bite newbies. In any case, I think it'd be best restricted to only reverting non-autoconfirmed users - that way if something is mis-reverted, any autoconfirmed editor can reinstate the text, and the bot shouldn't touch it again.
Building the bot would be technically easy; there are many ways in which sections could be registered with the bot, I've already thought of quite a lot of them, and (though it's not my place to tell people what to discuss) I think that deciding on such mechanisms are best left until the Bot Approvals stage, lest we argue about what colour to paint the bicycle sheds.
What I'd like opinions on:
Pseudomonas( talk) 13:17, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
WHile I think this could be good and useful if done right, it may upset a lot of people. You'd have to be careful with it's coding and usage. — Rlevse • Talk • 20:22, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
I'm generally in favor. A few thoughts:
All in all, I think this is a well needed task, and I encourage you to submit a bot request. – Quadell ( talk) ( random) 14:08, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
P.S. Similar non-list sections are also highly susceptible to such vanity additions, e.g. adding your non-notable band to your city's page. (In this example the link is blue, but you get the idea.) Should this bot handle non-list entries as well? – Quadell ( talk) ( random) 12:42, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
Hi all.
I would like to request your attention to a vote that will start this midnight, regarding a rearrangement of the top ten Wikipedias that are displayed on the main wikipedia portal ( http://www.wikipedia.org).
This topic has been wandering around for a long time on Talk:www.wikipedia.org template, coming to surface in many occasions, especially on the times around the milestone of 100.000 articles of the Chinese and Russian Wikipedias.
After a tentative wrap-up of all the proposals made in that page throughout the months in Talk:www.wikipedia.org template#rethinking the top ten, a discussion was launched in Top Ten Wikipedias, to which all the major Wikipedias have been invited to in their village pump.
A lot of good opinions have been collected and discussed, and a vote proposal has been made and received some feedback. That proposal was now implemented on Metapub. Please head to the poll to vote. I hope to see you there! -- Waldir talk 12:46, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
I have had trouble finding a specific word or phrase within a article using the standard find function which only seems to work well on .txt type of files, not html. I was wondering if others were having the same problem if wikipedia could add a search function to search within an article for specified words or phrases using double quotes("), to delimit a phrase? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.243.178.196 ( talk) 21:37, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
Please ignore if others are not having this problem. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.243.178.196 ( talk) 21:44, 6 July 2008 (UTC)
I think that there should be an option in a user's preferences, after unified login is enabled on their account, to temporarily disable it, or to temporarily disable the creation of accounts on other wikis just by browsing to them while logged on. I don't like accidentally creating accounts that I'm never going to use on other-language Wikipedias that I've only visited once. — Insanity Incarnat e 21:30, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
I would find it very useful if there was a way mass watch pages. I'm not aware of such a function on Wikipedia, but perhaps there is. What I have in mind is the ability to watch either all the pages tagged with a specific Wikiproject, or all the pages within a category. This way if you become interested in say, military history, then you could watch all the pages tagged with {{ WikiProject Military history}}, or something. Headbomb { ταλκ – WP Physics: PotW} 01:37, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
Just edit your raw watchlist and paste a list of articles into it.
1 != 2 15:41, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
I see that the navigation bar in the left has been tampered (i.e. the headings not capitalized.The background of wikipedia too looks little rusty at
http://en.wikipedia.org/skins-1.5/monobook/headbg.jpg
The background I think is not needed.
I also want to make the logo colorful (but not change it).
What do you all think at my comments.
• Autographed by RRaunak • Wanna meet him ? •
Jimmy Wales appeared on the TV show Squawk Box this morning, and in the hour he was on, the article about the host Rebecca Quick was treated savagely. Another user suggested here that Wikimedia staff and Board should, by policy, warn the community before noteworthy public broadcast appearances, so that the related pages (about the show, about the host, etc.) can be temporarily protected for 24 hours or so. This would save a lot of embarrassment. I saw the show this morning, and Becky Quick was mortified by some thing she saw on her biographical page. This could so easily be prevented, yet Jimmy Wales and the male co-host seemed almost titillated by the prospect of sexually offending Quick. The other user who suggested a policy change was basically drummed off the Rebecca Quick talk page, which is also shameful. Why this culture of "we don't care how much we offend living people"?
Go Green Go White ( talk) 22:22, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
Remember though that "the community" consists of more than the English Wikipedia. If the foundation did give prior notice for things like this, it would likely not be made on WP:AN or elsewhere on the wiki. It would be made on meta or more likely on the foundation-l mailing list perhaps cc'd to wikiEN-l (all of which would also be better places for this proposal as well). Mr. Z-man 23:35, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
I propose that we slow down the proposals, and make sure that we have gathered a fairly large audience and opinion on them. We archive them manually afterwards. We could even start listing a history of proposals by category, and when people come up with similar proposals, refer back to them. We should only have a few proposals going on at a time, and while those are going on, others will have to wait. That will give people who think they have a good proposal an incentive to comment on the ones existing. In the meantime they can write their proposal up as a subpage. There is not a huge hurry. It is more important that we actually address some of the ideas raised here. II | ( t - c) 03:35, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
This proposal has two parts
Bots deal with non-controversial and mindless tasks. If a bot makes a controversial edit it risks loosing its bot flag and the bots operator risks blocks or other sanctions. Bot operators are rational people who do not use their bots to cause disruption.
The idea behind this is that mindless tasks such as the fixing of Special:DoubleRedirects frequently hits "protected pages". These pages were protected due to edit wars, vandalism, or some other form of disruption often far back ago when semi-protection was not available.
The other alternative to this is granting an admin flag to bots so that they can edit such protected pages. This is something I do not believe is preferable over to my proposal.
-- Cat chi? 13:14, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
If DoubleRedirects hit protected pages, it is probably a good idea to check whether they really need to be protected. I'd rather have a human admin decide between unprotection and editing through protection in such a case than treat everything the same. How many times does this come up anyway (any data?) Other bot work (like recategorisation after CFD) is already done by bots running on admin accounts. Interwikibots shouldn't be able to edit through protection, as there are (rarely) contentious disputes about this question (for which an extra permissions/protection group is probably overkill). Kusma ( talk) 15:53, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
Why dont we rate articles like uncyclopedia. I would be a great Idea to rate pages with 5 stars down the navigation panel
[+] • Autographed and Signed by RRaunak • [+]
11:07, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
Ok, I've done this way too often. I make an edit, write the edit summary, and click "Save page", only to notice that I completely misspelled a word. At this point, there is nothing I can do about it other than hope nobody looks at my contributions. My proposal is being able to edit your own edit summaries. I brought up this discussion on one of the Wikipedia IRC channels, and there were plenty of ideas. The first is only letting admins edit summaries, and letting people make requests for them, because there is fear that other users would abbuse it, and possibly fabricate them. The other is only being able to make minor edits to fix typos, and prohibit completely rewriting the edit summary. I know this sounds odd, but some people (myself included) think this would be something that would make editing a little easier. Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 17:06, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
It was really not a good idea to start a poll without talking about the same thing.
The current proposal and bugzilla discussion can be found here. It asks for a mechanism to correct edit summaries (1) if it is your own edit (2) and if it is the last edit (3) during a short time span. This exact same mechanism is implemented in most online forum systems and has proven its efficacy and safety. Under these restrictions (own, last, recent), there is absolutely no potential for abuse (e.g. any following edit would make the previous summary permanent). At the same time you keep the benefits such as fixing accidentally empty summaries, switched summaries (when you have many tabs open), and half-completed raw summaries.
I am sure that many of the opposing users (as well as some supporting users which were obviously voting for a different mechanism) would actually support such an implementation under these restrictions. Again, this is not about allowing administrators to change summaries, not about allowing admin candidates to white-wash their editing history, and not about giving vandals any type of new toy. It would just be a nice feature to make editing Wikipedia easier - nothing more and nothing less. Cacycle ( talk) 03:28, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
Please participate in the discussion of the "official feature request" for this under https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13937. Cacycle 19:16, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
A number of editors have been around for years and have made thousands of edits, but are not necessarily interested in becoming admins. Nevertheless, such editors do participate in deletion reviews and requests for adminship discussions where seeing deleted contributions would indeed be relevant and helpful to assess the articles and candidates under discussion. Therefore, I propose that we come with a criteria by which established and experienced editors who have been editing for years and who have thousands of edits be able to see (not undelete, just see) deleted contribs for the purposes of such discussions. I am sure that it is somehow technologically possible to allow such editors to see the contribs without tacking on the undelete function. Sincerely, -- Le Grand Roi des Citrouilles Tally-ho! 20:07, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Please, someone, centralize this discussion. I've posted quite heavily on this subject at the Wikipedia_talk: page, but it would seem that that is one of multiple places this discussion is taking place. Only one page is needed. Pick one please, and merge the two pages. -- MZMcBride ( talk) 03:31, 28 June 2008 (UTC)
In reply to above, the present system of admins saying they will give copys of deleted articles is with caveats. No copyvios, no BLP, nothing that would be inappropriate for the general public. I know I have deleted, and I have seen deleted information in articles that is not suitable for the masses or the average editor to have access to. As for the average editor seeing their deleted contributions, I don't think that is what this proposal is for. This is for people with a genuine need. Curiosity is not a genuine need. The idea of skipping the middle man is moot for the reasons I have just mentioned. If this going to be implemented the requirements would be on par with a successful RfA. Community trust, no real history of blocks or abuse, etc. I think if someone wants this ability they need to demonstrate they could pass an RfA if they attempted one. KnightLago ( talk) 19:07, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
FWIW, The software support for tiered deletion is pretty much done, though it's still in code review and not turned on yet. Once its activated deciding how to use it is up to the community. Cheers. -- Gmaxwell ( talk) 20:35, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
I just reread the entire discussion again and I admit there are a few promising ideas. The high standard with close to RFA like requirements I was arguing for would be for a general view deleted privilege. I don't like the idea of such a thing and think there would be more than a few problems with it. As Davidwr said, Copyvios, BLP information, libel, attack pages, etc. would be available to the public with no real need to see the information other than curiosity. While I agree that the risk of a lawsuit is not high, the possibility becomes greater. Besides that, the idea of RFA and DRV only deleted viewing is interesting and after thinking about it I recognize there is a genuine need, so I would be for that. Regarding viewing your own deleted edits, maybe after a certain time limit and/or edit count this could be allowed. The problem would be new users continually recreating deleted content or trolls if the limit/ability is set too low. As for the tiered-deletion system, after reading it I am not exactly sure what the parameters are or how much it could be applied to this proposal. Right now it look more geared to admins and deleted information viewable to them and to what extent. A tiered deletion system sounds interesting, but the details need to be greatly expanded upon before I can offer a real opinion. After reading all of this, the question I have is which proposal is being advanced right now? Because there are a lot of ideas that have been thrown out on this page, but there needs to be some direction in order to focus on the details of the proposal. KnightLago ( talk) 23:52, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
This section has gotten a bit crowded so I thought I would summarize the idea that I am proposing.
I don't think that it would be that big of a deal if these users had access to the lowest tier of articles, and those users may be able to improve the article to fix any notability issues. -- Imperator3733 ( talk) 20:34, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
There's a bit of a mess currently regarding various uses of symbols involving a number of stars.
For example:
The disambig at Four Star page lists some articles related to four star and has a see also section which lists more articles related to four and other numbers of stars. Both lists are incomplete, and the second is probably inappropriate. The presence of the other numbers of stars here indicates a more general problem to me.
Three Star redirects to Three Star Club, again no hatnote at the target, and there seems to be no disambig for three stars.
Five Star (disambiguation) has a similar structure to the Four Star disambig.
Before starting to tidy this up, I'm inviting discussion. We may even end up writing a guideline, but let's first work out some sort of consensus as to what we should do.
Or, is there already a relevant guideline that I'm overlooking?
Issues:
Comments sought of course. Also some help with the cleanup in due course. The survey of existing practice above isn't exhaustive, but enough that I thought I should seek some other input at this stage. Andrewa ( talk) 17:39, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for comments so far... let's continue at Talk:Star (classification)/Archives/2013#Related articles and redirects. Andrewa ( talk) 19:23, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
Hi. I believe adding a link to Special:NewPages under the interaction section of the Wikipedia Sidebar would increase patrolling of those pages and make it easier to do so. What do you all think about doing that? - Preceding unsigned comment added by SunDragon34 ( Talk) at 23:09, 11 July 2008
We use Wikipedia for a number of uses, but mostly for our genealogy research for various families. Much of our time is spent sifting through the various European castles to find out which were build in specific centuries. It would be extremely helpful to us and other researchers, if wikipedia would create a page that lists the various castles by the century in which they were built.
For example, just the other day, we were searching for a Danish 11th century castle; however, to our misfortune, we could not find one on wikipedia. It would not only save us hours, days, weeks, and even sometimes months of searching, but it would also assist many others people/ groups in their various forms of research.
We wrote to Wikipedia concerning this matter, and we received a reply from a Phil Sandifer suggesting we use this form to make our proposal/ suggestions. We sincerely hop you will consider our proposal. Thank you for your time.
After Rjd0060 discussed this idea with me, I was bold and created a new proposed "request for permissions page" which would handle all admin-granted requests for permission here. It would basically keep it all organised onto one page. The page would handle rollback, IPblockexempt and account creator flags. It would be based on the current RfR page and the permissions could be granted by any admin after a flick through a users contribs/logs. Let me know your thoughts at Wikipedia talk:Requests for permissions. Ryan Postlethwaite 23:21, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
I had a go at hacking together something roughly like this at User:Tiny plastic Grey Knight/scripts/suldropdown.js. Please see my monobook.js for an example of how to import the script and customise the menu. There are still several bugs, but nothing dangerous. You need to add such an import statement on each project where you want the menu to appear, it won't follow you around.
Most annoying bugs so far: On
Internet Exploder, the lists still have bullet marks and the first project isn't selectable. The menu seems to jump behind the main page-block (#content
) unless I set #content
's z-index to 0; setting the menu's z-index to anything seems to have no effect.
Opinions and bugfixes are welcome! -- tiny plastic Grey Knight ⊖ 08:27, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
When was the sidebar changed??? I don't really mind the search box being moved up, but its new name is terrible. Find is not the right term for that. There really needs to be more community input before changing something affecting everything on enwiki. Reywas92 Talk 18:57, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
In common web browser parlance, "search" = "find pages which match this input" and "find" = "search the current page for this input", for better or worse. Drive it on a parkway and park it in a driveway, your mileage may vary. — CharlotteWebb 13:22, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
Per a brief discussion at User talk:Ed Fitzgerald#Spacing?, how would people feel about this?:
#toc { margin-top: 10px; }
— Wknight94 ( talk) 18:24, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
It might be better to use some relative units (e.g., 3% or 1.5em) instead of 10px. -- Taku ( talk) 23:32, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
The maintainers of the List of basic opera topics have renamed that list to List of opera topics. That page has the same scope and the same standard format as the rest of the basic topic lists. And the set of pages called Lists of topics that it has been moved into are comprehensive in scope. The page is clearly a member of the wrong set of pages now.
I propose that the Lists of basic topics be kept together, and that they retain the standard names of the set they belong to. If they are to be renamed, they should be renamed together as a set, as in the proposal in the previous section above.
If the pages can be renamed by local consensus individually on each one's talk page, then the discussion in the previous section above won't make much difference, as any of the pages could be renamed by anybody at anytime on a whim. Every time a page is moved out of the set, it creates a hole in the set's coverage, or at least has the potential to create confusion over what the purpose and scope of the renamed page is.
List of opera topics should be renamed back to List of basic opera topics, since that matches the naming convention currently in use for the set it was designed to be a part of. And if the discussion in the previous section above determines a new name for the set, it should apply to its opera component as well. The Transhumanist 19:22, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
While the main page redesign proposal is an good idea for giving the site a cleaner yet prettier look, I have another concern.
I mean, given Wikipedia's international/multi-lingual goal, the word Wikipedia might be a tough word to pronounce in different tongues. While it is pretty easy and familiar to us English speakers, I fear others might stumble upon the syllables. Think about the Simple English Wikipedia. Marlith (Talk) 00:08, 8 July 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, just a note. Nothing huge...
a) The name is just fine, it is recognizable and people figure out we are an encyclopedia quickly, b) it is far to late to change it now. 1 != 2 15:39, 11 July 2008 (UTC)
a) Actually, I agree with the original poster, I've always thought the name weird, misleading, and a touch off-putting. I've always thought so, right from the start. Is it too late to change it? Yeah, probably (but see below). But how much nicer if the name were "wepedia" or "ourpedia" or "netpedia" (all of which have probably been taken by commercial interests by now!), for example. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I've always thought the word "wiki" had to do with a rather strange new-age cultish semi-religion, and could never figure out why in the world this public encyclopedia used it, unless, of course, this public internet encyclopedia was actually started by wiki-practitioners. And, as I think about it more, a name change would be a fantastic public relations event, with tremendous promotion. Look at all the free publicity Esso got when the conglomerate of Esso, Enco and ... well, whatever the other one was ... changed their name to Exxon. The technical difficulties are nothing; retaining the ownership of the name wiki, simply have a redirect to the "ourpedia" home page, and I have no doubt google is smart enough to figure out how to redirect searches that include wiki to include everything relevent in "ourpedia". This also brings up an interesting challenge for linquists; what single word is the most universal word in the world meaning "all of us"? Personally, I haven't the faintest idea (what a laugh it would be if the word turned out to be "wiki") what it is, but it's worth taking a look at.
Currently subcategories are sorted alphabetically like regular articles. This creates the need to look through the entire category to find all of the subcategories, unless the person adding the subcat cleverly used some special text. I propose that subcategories are alphabetically placed before articles within a category, always placing all subcategories at the beginning of a category. The only undesirable effect that I can foresee is that subcategories would then require their own TOC when the numbers reach 500+, but most categories do not contain nearly this many subcategories, so this would come up rarely. Thoughts? JohnnyMrNinja 09:49, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
(undent) I suggest starting a discussion on the talk page of WP:CAT, and perhaps a cross-reference posting on the talk page of WP:SUBCAT, to see if there is general support for this. I think it's a good idea. (The only disadvantage that I can see if for those very few higher-level categories where editors regularly move articles into subcategories; if there were more than 200 subcategories - which I'm guessing is infrequent - then the first page of the category wouldn't show problem cases.) -- John Broughton (♫♫) 13:18, 10 July 2008 (UTC)
Just adding my support for Johnny's original proposal. I think the 200-per-page limit could be raised as well (would 500 be a problem?) -- Kotniski ( talk) 08:21, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
Adding my support as well. Having all subcatagories listed before listing any articles would be very helpful to me. The table of contents could be linked only to articles, as most categories have fewer than 200 sub categories and very few have so many that a separate table of contents would be of any real help. The table of contents indexing becomes more important as the number of pages of entries increases. Dbiel ( Talk) 22:38, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
I have filed a request to add functionality to my bot, specifically to update the various US city and town articles per the updated, official Census figures (which are the figures that should be used per WP:USCITY). The folks over at BAG suggested I would need more input from the community given the potential scope (there are approximately 19,500 incorporated places in the US), so I am bringing this up for attention here.
The actual functionality of the bot would be simple. The "population_total" field in the infobox would be updated to match the current Census figures, and the "population_footnotes" section would be updated to reflect the new source. Existing sources in that field would be maintained in the event they are used elsewhere in the article. The main body of the article would not be altered by the bot.
This bot would only affect the articles for incorporated places in the United States, as these are the only ones for which the Census releases annual estimate figures. Unincorporated communities would not fall under the scope of this work. I will make a link to this discussion so the BAG folks can take a peek at it. Feel free to comment here if you are interested. Thanks, Sher eth 15:26, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
Have the template modified to add the four fields:
<ref name="Latest estimates"/>
<ref name="Latest estimates"/>
<ref name="Latest estimates"/>
{{#if: est-population_total| (est: boo<ref name="Latest estimates"/>}}... ''however that field ends now.''
I presume the same kind of if-logic for the population output line, using "(Latest estimates<Your reference here>)", etc.I think it would useful if Wikipedia started a sister project called Wikinnovations. The idea is to take open-source development to the masses. If a layman has an idea for an innovation for a product, software or service, he could post it to the site. People could comment on or add ideas to the innovation.
Think about all of the times you've thought, "wouldn't it be nice if . . ." and then the idea slips into your next thoughts as quickly as it came. You could "twitter" the passing idea to Wikinnovations and it would become a seed for a new product or more ideas. Think about all of the people with ideas for applications on iPhone, but do not code or are too busy to bother themselves with the idea. Many people have probably had ideas for incremental improvements on their car or refrigerator, but will not be competing with GM or GE in the near future.
Eventually, most products, software and services would be categorized with its respective wish list of future features and discussions. The ideas could then be rated by users for usefulness or need. The best ideas would float to the top. Marketers could mine the site for good ideas and pursue innovations that have sufficient market pull. This site could substantially accelerate the evolution of products and meet the needs of people in rapidly changing environments.
David Kern Roberts
I would like a subpages tab, like the history tab, that creates a dynamic list of every subpage (and the subpage of every subpage) for a given page on WP. It would make finding things much simpler, it would also help towards keeping WP more transparent. I personally can't remember how to get to half the junk I have under my userpage, and it would be very nice to browse through all the subpages of WP:VG. JohnnyMrNinja 06:16, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
From this discussion Emmanuelm came up with the idea of Wikipedia for kids (lovingly called "wikipediakids") and I strongly support this idea; Wikipedia is not censored, and it should be that way, but it leaves us with the problem of possibly leaving out an internet minority with unsuitable content. If "wikipediakids" was considered and debated, I propose this set of basic prinicples that would differ from the 'pedia we know and love:
That's all I can think of. Tell me your ideas! Or crush mine, either/or. Leonard( Bloom) 03:34, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
It's a tricky one. The point of Wikipedia is that anybody can edit it, but should always verify information with citations, & their edits may be challenged by other users. That doesn't translate too well for children, who are unlikely to be able to follow Wikipedia's rules and guidelines on content, editing, style, references, etc. & If all those rules were relaxed, so that (for example) children could add unreferenced content & POV comments, it would quickly degenerate into a very poor quality encyclopedia. If, on the other hand, WPKids was edited by adult users, & children themselves could not edit it, it would not be significantly different from any of the children's encyclopedias you can get on CD-Rom. Weasel Fetlocks ( talk) 14:18, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
I think this idea of a Wikipedia for children would turn out to be largely redundant with the already existent Simple English Wikipedia; while the latter project is not designed especially for children, it is written specifically in non-technical and easy-to-understand language. -- Anonymous Dissident Talk 08:39, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
I am thinking about starting a WikiProject to use as an example or other general purposes. Which name would be preferable?
Also, I would like to know if there are any admin who would be willing to help keep it sane. This is basically going to turn into a sandbox like area, so a little administrative oversight would be appreciated. It would have its own banner for other pages which are similar, and possibly its own assessment section. - LA @ 04:06, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
I think I will suggest WikiProject Sandbox. There will be a few static pages, however, this will be the WikiProject that can be used to test various templates. Example would be a C or B class top-importance article of this project since one aim would be to create a suite of example pages throughout Wikipedia. Wikipedia:Sandbox would also be part of it, and every user who wants their sandboxes in it. So, part serious, part playground is the idea. - LA @ 18:04, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
I have proposed this at the WikiProject council. Thanks for your help in choosing the name! - LA @ 21:08, 17 July 2008 (UTC)
Hello to the editors of Wikipedia!
My name is Wiley Coleman, Inside Sales Representative of ingage, Inc. I am contacting you regarding a possible future working relationship between the Wikimedia Foundation and ingage, as I believe we offer a product that could be of great value to you.
ingage is a digital publishing company. We cost effectively convert print media into digital, online, page flipping, interactive documents. Essentially, we give the user the feel of reading an actual piece of printed material. My idea is to incorporate our page flipping technology to the projects of the Wikimedia Foundation. There would be no more scrolling up and down, you would be flipping the pages just as if it was an actual physical encyclopedia (and it would have interactive features that make it extremely easy to move throughout the entire document). I will include a sample with this email so you can get a better feel for the product, see how it works, and see how it could benefit you. I would be glad to follow up with another email or phone call to outline more information about ingage and discuss this possibility further. We are excited about the possibility of working with the team at the Wikimedia Foundation and I look forward to hearing back from you. I can be contacted at wiley@ingageinteractive.com .
Sample – http://publications.ingagepublication.com/BRIERCREEKMAGAZINE07/
Thank you! Wiley Coleman
You may, of course, speak with the foundation (foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org) or technical team (wikitech-l@lists.wikimedia.org). — Werdna • talk 04:30, 17 July 2008 (UTC)