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July 2

Categories classifying stars by spectral type and luminosity class

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename all. Kbdank71 13:54, 10 July 2008 (UTC) reply
Nominator's proposal. Stars can be classified by spectral type (O, B, A, F, G, K, or M) and luminosity class (I, supergiants; II, bright giants, III, giants; IV, subgiants; V, main sequence stars, also called dwarfs; and VI, subdwarfs.) We currently have a number of categories with names of the form color size (e.g., Category:Orange dwarfs) which classify stars in this way. However, these names are undesirable for two reasons:
  1. Many of them (e.g., Category:Yellow-white subgiants, whose name gets exactly 0 hits on Google Scholar) are rarely used in the astronomical literature.
  2. Worse, some of these categories have names which are used by astronomers, but not in the same way as they are in our classification scheme. For example, the term red giant is used in our classification scheme for stars of spectral type M and luminosity class III, but in reality may include stars of spectral type either K or M. Similarly, red dwarf, used in our classification scheme for stars of spectral type M and luminosity class V, may also include stars of spectral type K. (See e.g. p. 189, Firefly Astronomy Dictionary, John Woodruff, 2003, ISBN  1552978370.) This causes confusion and misclassification.
Therefore, I am proposing the following renamings:
Another possibility would be to use the Roman numeral of the luminosity class rather than its name, leading to the following renamings:
For previous discussion of these names at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Astronomical objects, please see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Astronomical objects#Category:Orange-red_giants.
Spacepotato ( talk) 23:24, 2 July 2008 (UTC) reply
  • Support using roman numerals. 70.55.86.39 ( talk) 05:00, 3 July 2008 (UTC) reply
  • Support either proposal. My one concern is that, for viewers that are not familiar with astronomical notation, roman numerals (for the luminosity class) might not be as clear as the text names. However, we could manage that via an explanation on the category pages.— RJH ( talk) 17:10, 3 July 2008 (UTC) reply
  • Support either proposal, with a preference for using English names for luminosity classes. Roman numerals are rather obscure jargon. (The OBAFGKM classes are also obscure, but there isn't a widely used alternative in English, whereas there is for the Roman numeral luminosity class.) ASHill ( talk | contribs) 17:15, 3 July 2008 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Wikipedia administrators willing to make difficult unblocks

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Speedy deleted per CSD#G5, creation by a banned user. Rjd0060 ( talk) 23:12, 2 July 2008 (UTC) reply
Category:Wikipedia administrators willing to make difficult unblocks ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Pointless empty category, created as a first-edit by an SPA, I assume to prove a WP:POINT regarding the "Admins willing to make difficult blocks" category. In my opinion, the solution to a problem that doesn't exist – if there's a consensus to unblock someone, they'll be unblocked.  –  iride scent 22:14, 2 July 2008 (UTC) reply
Rationale of someone besides the nominator It's not pointy. Most admins are busy. A few may be willing to sit and contemplate. This category would be for them. If we delete this category, then one could conclude that admins conspire with each other. It would be better to delete this category if it remains empty for a week or so. Why the rush? More discussion at WP:AN Voxtel ( talk) 22:18, 2 July 2008 (UTC) reply
Not a SPA. Made a deal with an admin to remember my name rather than editing a few days then forgetting my name after a break. Not a sock because I don't ever edit the same articles and if I do, I search the history to find the username that I used. So its BRA, not SPA (bad record keeping account). Also, not a POINTY but trying to fill a void. This cat. would prove that there are a few admin willing to sit and contemplate a difficult unblock. Voxtel ( talk) 22:34, 2 July 2008 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Price index

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. Kbdank71 13:55, 10 July 2008 (UTC) reply
Propose renaming Category:Price index to Category:Price indices
Nominator's rationale: Rename. Moved from speedy rename section. See initial rationale and creator's response below. Good Ol’factory (talk) 20:57, 2 July 2008 (UTC) reply

Speedy rename discussion ends here. Add new discussion immediately below.

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:1989 Films

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete, empty. Kbdank71 13:57, 10 July 2008 (UTC) reply
Suggest merging Category:1989 Films to Category:1989 films
Nominator's rationale: Merge, strays from film category naming convention. No more common of a typo than that for any other year. Category is currently empty.. KathrynLybarger ( talk) 20:26, 2 July 2008 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:2003 Albums

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete, empty. Kbdank71 13:57, 10 July 2008 (UTC) reply
Suggest merging Category:2003 Albums to Category:2003 albums
Nominator's rationale: Merge, strays from album category naming convention. No more common of a typo than that for any other year. Category is currently empty. KathrynLybarger ( talk) 20:15, 2 July 2008 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Cartoon Network television movies

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. Kbdank71 13:58, 10 July 2008 (UTC) reply
Propose renaming Category:Cartoon Network television movies to Category:Cartoon Network television films
Nominator's rationale: Rename. Films preferred over movies see Wikipedia:Naming conventions (films). Tim! ( talk) 17:58, 2 July 2008 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Managers of Japanese baseball teams

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. Kbdank71 13:58, 10 July 2008 (UTC) reply
Propose renaming Category:Managers of Japanese baseball teams to Category:Managers of baseball teams in Japan
Nominator's rationale: Rename. Per WP:NCCAT#Sport, sport teams in a country are named in country, and not as (nationality) teams. Neier ( talk) 14:45, 2 July 2008 (UTC) reply
Fine with it; cat was just renamed about a month ago, see previous discussion. MisfitToys ( talk) 22:42, 2 July 2008 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Places on Long Island

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. Kbdank71 13:59, 10 July 2008 (UTC) reply
Category:Places on Long Island ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: This is a redundant category. See Category:Geography of Long Island, Category:Towns on Long Island, etc. Mycroft7 ( talk) 14:45, 2 July 2008 (UTC) reply
Delete per above Jim.henderson ( talk) 16:06, 2 July 2008 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Types of scientist by nationality

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: relisted at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2008 July 16#Category:Types of scientist by nationality. Angus McLellan (Talk) 22:25, 15 July 2008 (UTC) reply

Category:Types of scientist by nationality ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

  • That last seems the best to me. There is, or is thought to be, a rule against punctuation in category titles, though I can't actually see it in WP:CAT or WP:NAME, but this type of name is justified as an exception imo, if such a rule exists. Johnbod ( talk) 14:53, 4 July 2008 (UTC) reply
  • Huh -- and I always thought I was the only one who ever had a problem parsing those categories! LOL - I would certainly agree in principle with Sam's suggestion. However, in this case I believe the proper name would actually be Category:Scientists by type, by nationality, since the scientist cats are first broken down by type -- and then further broken down (internally) by nationality. Cgingold ( talk) 23:41, 5 July 2008 (UTC) reply
  • Hmmm... Well, I can see how that particular application of logic yields that result. But I guess the more important question is, Is that the most compelling bit of logic to apply, in the first place? The real point being, we could debate competing logics all day, without necessarily arriving at a good solution. In this case, the formulation you're suggesting yields a category name that would probably be counter-intuitive for most readers. If you look at the super-cat, Category:People by occupation and nationality, the emphasis is implictly on the first term, which is how the sub-cats are sorted. I think that, regardless of our precise choice of wording, readers will generally expect sub-cats to be sorted by the first term they encounter. So I would suggest that that is what should take precedence here. In the final analysis, I think we may be better off staying with the naming system we've got, rather than switching over to commas. Cgingold ( talk) 07:33, 8 July 2008 (UTC) reply
  • I understand what you are getting at, and I suspect that there isn't a perfect solution to this that will make intuitive sense to every one. To me, the current name is more intuitive than the suggested replacement. -- ☑ SamuelWantman 08:22, 9 July 2008 (UTC) reply
  • Ha ha, so we've come full circle. There's some truth to your last remark, except that it doesn't address the reason I brought this to CFD in the first place: Categories for "Types of Xyz" are generally used for articles that are about Xyz Type1, Xyz Type2, Xyz Type3, etc. -- not for articles about people who do/are Xyz Type1, etc. So by the customary use, this category should be for articles about the various types of scientist -- and not for bio articles about individual scientists. Cgingold ( talk) 09:44, 9 July 2008 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Jewish anti-Zionists

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

I am closing this discussion as delete. None of the people advocating the keeping of this category have rebutted the sound rationale of the nominator. We have guidelines ( WP:CAT, WP:OCAT) that specifically discourage these types of categories, and there is a long history of deleting them. There is nothing to stop editors from creating cited lists with this material, and that is, by far, a much more appropriate way to include this information in Wikipedia. I don't believe in closing discussions by counting votes. Instead, I believe the arguments made during the discussion must be weighed against any relevant policies and guidelines. If people disagree with the policies and guidelines, they need to make cogent arguments for why the guidelines are wrong or do not apply in this case. That has not happened here. -- ☑ SamuelWantman 03:11, 10 July 2008 (UTC) reply


Category:Jewish anti-Zionists ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: There already were votes to delete these types of categories, see (1) Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 September 24#Category:Jewish Orthodox anti-Zionists, it was decided that: "The result of the debate was Listify and then Delete per Wikipedia:Overcategorization#Opinion about a question or issue. As was made abundantly clear by the discussion(s)..." there (per User:Jc37). And (2) Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 September 16#Category:Anti-Zionists: "This category is continually being added to articles... based on the wikipedian's view that this very libellous category is appropriate for the person. The whole category is just as bad as Category:Racists in being a POV magnet." (per User:WikiTownsvillian). Therefore, there has been an avoidance of this type of contentious "category" for some time now. The general category of Category:Orthodox Jewish Anti-Zionism survived and has been kept as the best catch-all category for this topic, if need be. In addition many of the people who are thrown into this category are not provably Jewish and it makes no sense to lump secular people some of whom do not openly admit to being Jewish with very religious Orthodox ones. IZAK ( talk) 07:49, 2 July 2008 (UTC) reply
  • Hi Enigmaman: Can you please elaborate on this because it seems many people are not aware that the creation of this category is part of a bigger pattern. Thank you, IZAK ( talk) 19:19, 2 July 2008 (UTC) reply
  • Everyone should see User talk:Comradesandalio and his contributions. He (?) has a long and established pattern of creating disruptive and racially-motivated content, whether it's a category or an article. Look at all the deletion notices on his page. Look at the fact that all his edits seem to be geared towards a specific POV. I do not have any history with the user and thus don't have experience with him dating back for any decent length of time, but I have looked at his edits and I am not pleased. Enigma message 22:24, 2 July 2008 (UTC) reply
  • Your initial comment certainly got my attention, Enigma, so I took a good look at the user's talk page. And there's no question that he has a long and troubling history of highly POV editing. That said, I don't think it was appropriate to slap the label of "racist creations" on this particular category. Like any other category, this one should be evaluated on its merits, not on its creator's apparent POV. As the aphorism points out, "even a broken clock tells the right time twice every day." Cgingold ( talk) 23:21, 2 July 2008 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Israeli atrocities

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: snowball delete. Acalamari 22:36, 2 July 2008 (UTC) reply
Category:Israeli atrocities ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Irredeemably POV. Jayjg (talk) 03:36, 2 July 2008 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Retrieved from " https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2008_July_2&oldid=1140261910"
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
< July 1 July 3 >

July 2

Categories classifying stars by spectral type and luminosity class

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename all. Kbdank71 13:54, 10 July 2008 (UTC) reply
Nominator's proposal. Stars can be classified by spectral type (O, B, A, F, G, K, or M) and luminosity class (I, supergiants; II, bright giants, III, giants; IV, subgiants; V, main sequence stars, also called dwarfs; and VI, subdwarfs.) We currently have a number of categories with names of the form color size (e.g., Category:Orange dwarfs) which classify stars in this way. However, these names are undesirable for two reasons:
  1. Many of them (e.g., Category:Yellow-white subgiants, whose name gets exactly 0 hits on Google Scholar) are rarely used in the astronomical literature.
  2. Worse, some of these categories have names which are used by astronomers, but not in the same way as they are in our classification scheme. For example, the term red giant is used in our classification scheme for stars of spectral type M and luminosity class III, but in reality may include stars of spectral type either K or M. Similarly, red dwarf, used in our classification scheme for stars of spectral type M and luminosity class V, may also include stars of spectral type K. (See e.g. p. 189, Firefly Astronomy Dictionary, John Woodruff, 2003, ISBN  1552978370.) This causes confusion and misclassification.
Therefore, I am proposing the following renamings:
Another possibility would be to use the Roman numeral of the luminosity class rather than its name, leading to the following renamings:
For previous discussion of these names at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Astronomical objects, please see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Astronomical objects#Category:Orange-red_giants.
Spacepotato ( talk) 23:24, 2 July 2008 (UTC) reply
  • Support using roman numerals. 70.55.86.39 ( talk) 05:00, 3 July 2008 (UTC) reply
  • Support either proposal. My one concern is that, for viewers that are not familiar with astronomical notation, roman numerals (for the luminosity class) might not be as clear as the text names. However, we could manage that via an explanation on the category pages.— RJH ( talk) 17:10, 3 July 2008 (UTC) reply
  • Support either proposal, with a preference for using English names for luminosity classes. Roman numerals are rather obscure jargon. (The OBAFGKM classes are also obscure, but there isn't a widely used alternative in English, whereas there is for the Roman numeral luminosity class.) ASHill ( talk | contribs) 17:15, 3 July 2008 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Wikipedia administrators willing to make difficult unblocks

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: Speedy deleted per CSD#G5, creation by a banned user. Rjd0060 ( talk) 23:12, 2 July 2008 (UTC) reply
Category:Wikipedia administrators willing to make difficult unblocks ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Pointless empty category, created as a first-edit by an SPA, I assume to prove a WP:POINT regarding the "Admins willing to make difficult blocks" category. In my opinion, the solution to a problem that doesn't exist – if there's a consensus to unblock someone, they'll be unblocked.  –  iride scent 22:14, 2 July 2008 (UTC) reply
Rationale of someone besides the nominator It's not pointy. Most admins are busy. A few may be willing to sit and contemplate. This category would be for them. If we delete this category, then one could conclude that admins conspire with each other. It would be better to delete this category if it remains empty for a week or so. Why the rush? More discussion at WP:AN Voxtel ( talk) 22:18, 2 July 2008 (UTC) reply
Not a SPA. Made a deal with an admin to remember my name rather than editing a few days then forgetting my name after a break. Not a sock because I don't ever edit the same articles and if I do, I search the history to find the username that I used. So its BRA, not SPA (bad record keeping account). Also, not a POINTY but trying to fill a void. This cat. would prove that there are a few admin willing to sit and contemplate a difficult unblock. Voxtel ( talk) 22:34, 2 July 2008 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Price index

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. Kbdank71 13:55, 10 July 2008 (UTC) reply
Propose renaming Category:Price index to Category:Price indices
Nominator's rationale: Rename. Moved from speedy rename section. See initial rationale and creator's response below. Good Ol’factory (talk) 20:57, 2 July 2008 (UTC) reply

Speedy rename discussion ends here. Add new discussion immediately below.

The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:1989 Films

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete, empty. Kbdank71 13:57, 10 July 2008 (UTC) reply
Suggest merging Category:1989 Films to Category:1989 films
Nominator's rationale: Merge, strays from film category naming convention. No more common of a typo than that for any other year. Category is currently empty.. KathrynLybarger ( talk) 20:26, 2 July 2008 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:2003 Albums

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete, empty. Kbdank71 13:57, 10 July 2008 (UTC) reply
Suggest merging Category:2003 Albums to Category:2003 albums
Nominator's rationale: Merge, strays from album category naming convention. No more common of a typo than that for any other year. Category is currently empty. KathrynLybarger ( talk) 20:15, 2 July 2008 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Cartoon Network television movies

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. Kbdank71 13:58, 10 July 2008 (UTC) reply
Propose renaming Category:Cartoon Network television movies to Category:Cartoon Network television films
Nominator's rationale: Rename. Films preferred over movies see Wikipedia:Naming conventions (films). Tim! ( talk) 17:58, 2 July 2008 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Managers of Japanese baseball teams

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: rename. Kbdank71 13:58, 10 July 2008 (UTC) reply
Propose renaming Category:Managers of Japanese baseball teams to Category:Managers of baseball teams in Japan
Nominator's rationale: Rename. Per WP:NCCAT#Sport, sport teams in a country are named in country, and not as (nationality) teams. Neier ( talk) 14:45, 2 July 2008 (UTC) reply
Fine with it; cat was just renamed about a month ago, see previous discussion. MisfitToys ( talk) 22:42, 2 July 2008 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Places on Long Island

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: delete. Kbdank71 13:59, 10 July 2008 (UTC) reply
Category:Places on Long Island ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: This is a redundant category. See Category:Geography of Long Island, Category:Towns on Long Island, etc. Mycroft7 ( talk) 14:45, 2 July 2008 (UTC) reply
Delete per above Jim.henderson ( talk) 16:06, 2 July 2008 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Types of scientist by nationality

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: relisted at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2008 July 16#Category:Types of scientist by nationality. Angus McLellan (Talk) 22:25, 15 July 2008 (UTC) reply

Category:Types of scientist by nationality ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

  • That last seems the best to me. There is, or is thought to be, a rule against punctuation in category titles, though I can't actually see it in WP:CAT or WP:NAME, but this type of name is justified as an exception imo, if such a rule exists. Johnbod ( talk) 14:53, 4 July 2008 (UTC) reply
  • Huh -- and I always thought I was the only one who ever had a problem parsing those categories! LOL - I would certainly agree in principle with Sam's suggestion. However, in this case I believe the proper name would actually be Category:Scientists by type, by nationality, since the scientist cats are first broken down by type -- and then further broken down (internally) by nationality. Cgingold ( talk) 23:41, 5 July 2008 (UTC) reply
  • Hmmm... Well, I can see how that particular application of logic yields that result. But I guess the more important question is, Is that the most compelling bit of logic to apply, in the first place? The real point being, we could debate competing logics all day, without necessarily arriving at a good solution. In this case, the formulation you're suggesting yields a category name that would probably be counter-intuitive for most readers. If you look at the super-cat, Category:People by occupation and nationality, the emphasis is implictly on the first term, which is how the sub-cats are sorted. I think that, regardless of our precise choice of wording, readers will generally expect sub-cats to be sorted by the first term they encounter. So I would suggest that that is what should take precedence here. In the final analysis, I think we may be better off staying with the naming system we've got, rather than switching over to commas. Cgingold ( talk) 07:33, 8 July 2008 (UTC) reply
  • I understand what you are getting at, and I suspect that there isn't a perfect solution to this that will make intuitive sense to every one. To me, the current name is more intuitive than the suggested replacement. -- ☑ SamuelWantman 08:22, 9 July 2008 (UTC) reply
  • Ha ha, so we've come full circle. There's some truth to your last remark, except that it doesn't address the reason I brought this to CFD in the first place: Categories for "Types of Xyz" are generally used for articles that are about Xyz Type1, Xyz Type2, Xyz Type3, etc. -- not for articles about people who do/are Xyz Type1, etc. So by the customary use, this category should be for articles about the various types of scientist -- and not for bio articles about individual scientists. Cgingold ( talk) 09:44, 9 July 2008 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Jewish anti-Zionists

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

I am closing this discussion as delete. None of the people advocating the keeping of this category have rebutted the sound rationale of the nominator. We have guidelines ( WP:CAT, WP:OCAT) that specifically discourage these types of categories, and there is a long history of deleting them. There is nothing to stop editors from creating cited lists with this material, and that is, by far, a much more appropriate way to include this information in Wikipedia. I don't believe in closing discussions by counting votes. Instead, I believe the arguments made during the discussion must be weighed against any relevant policies and guidelines. If people disagree with the policies and guidelines, they need to make cogent arguments for why the guidelines are wrong or do not apply in this case. That has not happened here. -- ☑ SamuelWantman 03:11, 10 July 2008 (UTC) reply


Category:Jewish anti-Zionists ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: There already were votes to delete these types of categories, see (1) Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 September 24#Category:Jewish Orthodox anti-Zionists, it was decided that: "The result of the debate was Listify and then Delete per Wikipedia:Overcategorization#Opinion about a question or issue. As was made abundantly clear by the discussion(s)..." there (per User:Jc37). And (2) Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 September 16#Category:Anti-Zionists: "This category is continually being added to articles... based on the wikipedian's view that this very libellous category is appropriate for the person. The whole category is just as bad as Category:Racists in being a POV magnet." (per User:WikiTownsvillian). Therefore, there has been an avoidance of this type of contentious "category" for some time now. The general category of Category:Orthodox Jewish Anti-Zionism survived and has been kept as the best catch-all category for this topic, if need be. In addition many of the people who are thrown into this category are not provably Jewish and it makes no sense to lump secular people some of whom do not openly admit to being Jewish with very religious Orthodox ones. IZAK ( talk) 07:49, 2 July 2008 (UTC) reply
  • Hi Enigmaman: Can you please elaborate on this because it seems many people are not aware that the creation of this category is part of a bigger pattern. Thank you, IZAK ( talk) 19:19, 2 July 2008 (UTC) reply
  • Everyone should see User talk:Comradesandalio and his contributions. He (?) has a long and established pattern of creating disruptive and racially-motivated content, whether it's a category or an article. Look at all the deletion notices on his page. Look at the fact that all his edits seem to be geared towards a specific POV. I do not have any history with the user and thus don't have experience with him dating back for any decent length of time, but I have looked at his edits and I am not pleased. Enigma message 22:24, 2 July 2008 (UTC) reply
  • Your initial comment certainly got my attention, Enigma, so I took a good look at the user's talk page. And there's no question that he has a long and troubling history of highly POV editing. That said, I don't think it was appropriate to slap the label of "racist creations" on this particular category. Like any other category, this one should be evaluated on its merits, not on its creator's apparent POV. As the aphorism points out, "even a broken clock tells the right time twice every day." Cgingold ( talk) 23:21, 2 July 2008 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:Israeli atrocities

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: snowball delete. Acalamari 22:36, 2 July 2008 (UTC) reply
Category:Israeli atrocities ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
Nominator's rationale: Irredeemably POV. Jayjg (talk) 03:36, 2 July 2008 (UTC) reply
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Retrieved from " https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2008_July_2&oldid=1140261910"

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