- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Nominator has said that they have withdrawn the nomination, so no need to keep this open. Hog Farm Talk 18:52, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
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- Torboll ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
No indication of notability. Not a town, nor a hamlet, nor a village. The consensus for Scottish villages is 10 houses. This is a farm. scope_creep Talk 13:57, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Scotland-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 14:03, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 15:53, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
- comment I notice the OS map labels this area as "Torboll Farm". They (and GMaps) show a "Little Torboll" south of the river; it doesn't look much more town-like. Mangoe ( talk) 00:08, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
- Comment - Could we say this is a former feudal barony and geographical area that includes Torboll Farm, Little Torboll, Torboll Fall, and the Torboll Woods Site of Special Scientific Interest? The feudal barony is notable and was once held by the Earls of Sutherland. Regards
Newm30 (
talk)
03:04, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
- Newm30, That sounds cool, but we would need sources for that... Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 12:50, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
- Keep This barony dates back about 650 years and so there's natural coverage in a variety of sources including Scandinavian Settlement in Northern Britain. Andrew🐉( talk) 12:10, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
- Fuedal and noble are usually titled to the person, not a location, and it has always been that way. So for example, it is the Fothergills of
Garth Castle. The book on the Fothergills has 4-6 pages on the castle, but only because it was a sacked during an attack. They had other more important castles. When you look at the
Aberfeldy, Perth and Kinross, you don't see any fuedal or noble links in there. Unless the place is a Royal Borough of some kind, perhaps where the king or queen went hunting and liked it and a town grew up there, so it gets the name. In this instance, Barony means control of the land, the person is entitled to farm it and garner tithes for it use and has been that way since the 12th century. But that is not the location where they located. They lived in Dunrobin castle, so for them it is just a farm and likely due to its hilly nature, always a farm. There has never been a castle there. But, it would be great if it was the start of list of barony lands held in Scotland article. On its own as a barony, it is likely not be notable.
scope_creep
Talk
13:37, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
- Except this one appears to be titled after the location, or rather the name already applied to three of the davachs of land which formed part of the newly created barony: "...granting to Nicolas of Sutherland, his brother, for his homage and service, sixteen davachs of land in the earldom of Sutherland, in free barony which is called Thorbol, namely, three davachs of Thorbol, one davach of Rouearkar...." [1].---- Pontificalibus 12:38, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
- It really needs to be described a barony titles held by a specific earl of sutherland at a particular time, not one location.
scope_creep
Talk
13:48, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
- No, while the barony is interesting; it's the place that's especially important. It is of special scientific interest, has a historic broch and a cairn indicating that it was an iron settlement. It's an easy pass of
WP:GEOFEAT.
Andrew🐉(
talk)
15:30, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
- According to Canmore, it has one hut circle [2], which in the scheme of things is very small, when you look at Iron age or Bronze age villages, in general. It likely merits a single entry in a list article. Canmore has no information which makes it close to the bottom of the scale. The site of special scientific interest is Torboll Woods to the south, not the farm. scope_creep Talk 16:02, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
- According to Bing maps at 57.957574, -4.130023 there is reams of hut circles up that way. Perhaps never been a dig up that way. There is a Dun as well as a an iron or bronze age field system, all along the valley. And I see there are some standing stones. scope_creep Talk 16:10, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
- You can see hut circles scattered all over the valley on Google Earth. I'm happy to close this probably if I can determine if the article is going to be altered.
scope_creep
Talk
16:14, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
- There's at least one more feature recorded at Canmore: Thor's Tower, Torboll. These numerous features are all part of the Torboll estate and the name of the baronial estate, Torboll, is obviously the most sensible way to head and organise these. Andrew🐉( talk) 10:20, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
- No, while the barony is interesting; it's the place that's especially important. It is of special scientific interest, has a historic broch and a cairn indicating that it was an iron settlement. It's an easy pass of
WP:GEOFEAT.
Andrew🐉(
talk)
15:30, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
- Fuedal and noble are usually titled to the person, not a location, and it has always been that way. So for example, it is the Fothergills of
Garth Castle. The book on the Fothergills has 4-6 pages on the castle, but only because it was a sacked during an attack. They had other more important castles. When you look at the
Aberfeldy, Perth and Kinross, you don't see any fuedal or noble links in there. Unless the place is a Royal Borough of some kind, perhaps where the king or queen went hunting and liked it and a town grew up there, so it gets the name. In this instance, Barony means control of the land, the person is entitled to farm it and garner tithes for it use and has been that way since the 12th century. But that is not the location where they located. They lived in Dunrobin castle, so for them it is just a farm and likely due to its hilly nature, always a farm. There has never been a castle there. But, it would be great if it was the start of list of barony lands held in Scotland article. On its own as a barony, it is likely not be notable.
scope_creep
Talk
13:37, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Hog Farm Talk 17:53, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Hog Farm Talk 17:53, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
- Comment Nomination has been withdrawn last week. scope_creep Talk 18:17, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Nominator has said that they have withdrawn the nomination, so no need to keep this open. Hog Farm Talk 18:52, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Torboll ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
No indication of notability. Not a town, nor a hamlet, nor a village. The consensus for Scottish villages is 10 houses. This is a farm. scope_creep Talk 13:57, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Scotland-related deletion discussions. Shellwood ( talk) 14:03, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Geography-related deletion discussions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 15:53, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
- comment I notice the OS map labels this area as "Torboll Farm". They (and GMaps) show a "Little Torboll" south of the river; it doesn't look much more town-like. Mangoe ( talk) 00:08, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
- Comment - Could we say this is a former feudal barony and geographical area that includes Torboll Farm, Little Torboll, Torboll Fall, and the Torboll Woods Site of Special Scientific Interest? The feudal barony is notable and was once held by the Earls of Sutherland. Regards
Newm30 (
talk)
03:04, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
- Newm30, That sounds cool, but we would need sources for that... Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 12:50, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
- Keep This barony dates back about 650 years and so there's natural coverage in a variety of sources including Scandinavian Settlement in Northern Britain. Andrew🐉( talk) 12:10, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
- Fuedal and noble are usually titled to the person, not a location, and it has always been that way. So for example, it is the Fothergills of
Garth Castle. The book on the Fothergills has 4-6 pages on the castle, but only because it was a sacked during an attack. They had other more important castles. When you look at the
Aberfeldy, Perth and Kinross, you don't see any fuedal or noble links in there. Unless the place is a Royal Borough of some kind, perhaps where the king or queen went hunting and liked it and a town grew up there, so it gets the name. In this instance, Barony means control of the land, the person is entitled to farm it and garner tithes for it use and has been that way since the 12th century. But that is not the location where they located. They lived in Dunrobin castle, so for them it is just a farm and likely due to its hilly nature, always a farm. There has never been a castle there. But, it would be great if it was the start of list of barony lands held in Scotland article. On its own as a barony, it is likely not be notable.
scope_creep
Talk
13:37, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
- Except this one appears to be titled after the location, or rather the name already applied to three of the davachs of land which formed part of the newly created barony: "...granting to Nicolas of Sutherland, his brother, for his homage and service, sixteen davachs of land in the earldom of Sutherland, in free barony which is called Thorbol, namely, three davachs of Thorbol, one davach of Rouearkar...." [1].---- Pontificalibus 12:38, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
- It really needs to be described a barony titles held by a specific earl of sutherland at a particular time, not one location.
scope_creep
Talk
13:48, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
- No, while the barony is interesting; it's the place that's especially important. It is of special scientific interest, has a historic broch and a cairn indicating that it was an iron settlement. It's an easy pass of
WP:GEOFEAT.
Andrew🐉(
talk)
15:30, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
- According to Canmore, it has one hut circle [2], which in the scheme of things is very small, when you look at Iron age or Bronze age villages, in general. It likely merits a single entry in a list article. Canmore has no information which makes it close to the bottom of the scale. The site of special scientific interest is Torboll Woods to the south, not the farm. scope_creep Talk 16:02, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
- According to Bing maps at 57.957574, -4.130023 there is reams of hut circles up that way. Perhaps never been a dig up that way. There is a Dun as well as a an iron or bronze age field system, all along the valley. And I see there are some standing stones. scope_creep Talk 16:10, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
- You can see hut circles scattered all over the valley on Google Earth. I'm happy to close this probably if I can determine if the article is going to be altered.
scope_creep
Talk
16:14, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
- There's at least one more feature recorded at Canmore: Thor's Tower, Torboll. These numerous features are all part of the Torboll estate and the name of the baronial estate, Torboll, is obviously the most sensible way to head and organise these. Andrew🐉( talk) 10:20, 9 February 2021 (UTC)
- No, while the barony is interesting; it's the place that's especially important. It is of special scientific interest, has a historic broch and a cairn indicating that it was an iron settlement. It's an easy pass of
WP:GEOFEAT.
Andrew🐉(
talk)
15:30, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
- Fuedal and noble are usually titled to the person, not a location, and it has always been that way. So for example, it is the Fothergills of
Garth Castle. The book on the Fothergills has 4-6 pages on the castle, but only because it was a sacked during an attack. They had other more important castles. When you look at the
Aberfeldy, Perth and Kinross, you don't see any fuedal or noble links in there. Unless the place is a Royal Borough of some kind, perhaps where the king or queen went hunting and liked it and a town grew up there, so it gets the name. In this instance, Barony means control of the land, the person is entitled to farm it and garner tithes for it use and has been that way since the 12th century. But that is not the location where they located. They lived in Dunrobin castle, so for them it is just a farm and likely due to its hilly nature, always a farm. There has never been a castle there. But, it would be great if it was the start of list of barony lands held in Scotland article. On its own as a barony, it is likely not be notable.
scope_creep
Talk
13:37, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Hog Farm Talk 17:53, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Hog Farm Talk 17:53, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
- Comment Nomination has been withdrawn last week. scope_creep Talk 18:17, 14 February 2021 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.