- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. There are inadequate sources for a BLP article and none have been brought into this discussion. This article can be restored to Draft space if additional sources can be located. Liz Read! Talk! 03:17, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Naoto Hori ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
The article has issues with notability and sourcing. Single ref to a Japanese sports stats catalog that does not seem to confirm most of the information here. No ja interwiki. The user who created this on en wiki has been banned for socking, and according to some related pl wiki discussion is responsible for cross wiki spam, mass creating articles on Japanese-related soccer players, many of whom do not meet NBIO. Someone on pl wiki suggested in the deletion discussion about this person (Naoto Hori) that the stats cited here suggest possible notability if sources ca be found (but said sources may not exist outside Japanese). My BEFORE yielded nothing, but perhaps someone with access to Japanese sources or a deeper knowledge of the sports field can find something to rescue this?
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here
02:12, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Football and Japan. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:12, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:14, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Giant Snowman 16:11, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 16:13, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Numerous sources are listed at Japanese wiki. There's no reason to suppose they're falsified, even if they're hardly available offline outside Japan. Also even if no other sources are given, the only one listed in the article confirms he has played 5 matches in JLeague in 1993. Which was a professional league at that time. Therefore there is no valid reason for deletion, although, of course, improving the list of sources, preferably by someone from Japan, who could reach the books cited in the Japanese wiki, is more than welcome.
Avtandil (
talk)
21:13, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks, I did miss he has an entry at ja:堀直人. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 12:22, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗ plicit 03:12, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
- Comment. Although there seem to be more sources on the Japanese version of the article, most of them are just sports databases with player statistics. Even the articles that are linked to include only a trivial mention of him, e.g. the SoccerKing source (I can't even link to it, it's blacklisted on enWiki). Perhaps most of the media coverage of Naoto Hori might be in print (pre-internet ?) given his age. I think an editor fluent in Japanese would need to take a look around. Zenomonoz ( talk) 03:44, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
- Keep, he's from the pre-internet era so a bit hard to find anything although photo archives do bring up images. Given his professional career, it strains credulity to suggest that he wouldn't have substantial coverage in Japanese newspapers from the time (imo, Japanese newspapers are far more prolific in detailing athlete's lives than US newspapers). DCsansei ( talk) 14:11, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
- Keep - Per DCdansei. Made almot 100 appearances in Japan top flight in pre internet era so deniftely has offline sources. Thanks,
Das osmnezz (
talk)
22:23, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
- @ Das osmnezz WP:THEREMUSTBESOURCES is not a great arguments. Where you able to locate any sources, or is this just hope? Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 12:13, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 03:17, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
- Keep – Per above Svartner ( talk) 16:56, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
- Delete: BLP, fails GNG and NBIO. Single source in article is a database record, no sources above and BEFORE showed nothing that meets WP:IS WP:RS with WP:SIGCOV addressing the subject directly and indepth. BLPs require strong sourcing. // Timothy :: talk 17:49, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. There are inadequate sources for a BLP article and none have been brought into this discussion. This article can be restored to Draft space if additional sources can be located. Liz Read! Talk! 03:17, 8 December 2023 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Naoto Hori ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
The article has issues with notability and sourcing. Single ref to a Japanese sports stats catalog that does not seem to confirm most of the information here. No ja interwiki. The user who created this on en wiki has been banned for socking, and according to some related pl wiki discussion is responsible for cross wiki spam, mass creating articles on Japanese-related soccer players, many of whom do not meet NBIO. Someone on pl wiki suggested in the deletion discussion about this person (Naoto Hori) that the stats cited here suggest possible notability if sources ca be found (but said sources may not exist outside Japanese). My BEFORE yielded nothing, but perhaps someone with access to Japanese sources or a deeper knowledge of the sports field can find something to rescue this?
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here
02:12, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Football and Japan. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:12, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:14, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Giant Snowman 16:11, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Delete - no evidence of notability. If sources are found please ping me. Giant Snowman 16:13, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Numerous sources are listed at Japanese wiki. There's no reason to suppose they're falsified, even if they're hardly available offline outside Japan. Also even if no other sources are given, the only one listed in the article confirms he has played 5 matches in JLeague in 1993. Which was a professional league at that time. Therefore there is no valid reason for deletion, although, of course, improving the list of sources, preferably by someone from Japan, who could reach the books cited in the Japanese wiki, is more than welcome.
Avtandil (
talk)
21:13, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks, I did miss he has an entry at ja:堀直人. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 12:22, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗ plicit 03:12, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
- Comment. Although there seem to be more sources on the Japanese version of the article, most of them are just sports databases with player statistics. Even the articles that are linked to include only a trivial mention of him, e.g. the SoccerKing source (I can't even link to it, it's blacklisted on enWiki). Perhaps most of the media coverage of Naoto Hori might be in print (pre-internet ?) given his age. I think an editor fluent in Japanese would need to take a look around. Zenomonoz ( talk) 03:44, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
- Keep, he's from the pre-internet era so a bit hard to find anything although photo archives do bring up images. Given his professional career, it strains credulity to suggest that he wouldn't have substantial coverage in Japanese newspapers from the time (imo, Japanese newspapers are far more prolific in detailing athlete's lives than US newspapers). DCsansei ( talk) 14:11, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
- Keep - Per DCdansei. Made almot 100 appearances in Japan top flight in pre internet era so deniftely has offline sources. Thanks,
Das osmnezz (
talk)
22:23, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
- @ Das osmnezz WP:THEREMUSTBESOURCES is not a great arguments. Where you able to locate any sources, or is this just hope? Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 12:13, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 03:17, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
- Keep – Per above Svartner ( talk) 16:56, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
- Delete: BLP, fails GNG and NBIO. Single source in article is a database record, no sources above and BEFORE showed nothing that meets WP:IS WP:RS with WP:SIGCOV addressing the subject directly and indepth. BLPs require strong sourcing. // Timothy :: talk 17:49, 5 December 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.