- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. signed, Rosguill talk 02:10, 13 July 2023 (UTC)
Mark Tinley
AfDs for this article:
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Mark Tinley ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Fails WP:GNG. Relies exclusively on primary sources; current sourcing consists of a post he wrote himself, two interviews, a non-independent source with a trivial mention of him, and a webpage that doesn't mention him. I was unable to find any good secondary sources. Much of the information in the article is unverified (probably unverifiable) and possibly false. A few examples: he is not credited on several of the albums the article claims he worked on; the article claims he founded several nightclubs, yet there is no evidence of him founding any nightclubs; the article claims he formed the first acid house band, yet no sources about the history of acid house corroborate this; the article claims he is a founding member of the group TV Mania, yet he is not mentioned in the bio on the band's website. Also, it appears to be an autobiography (see WP:AUTOBIO); the creator of the article is called Marktinley ( User:Marktinley). JMB1980 ( talk) 00:20, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
- Keep The Sound on Sound article is listed as a reliable source by source bot. I've found this
[1] in a book, seems ok. I think it's at GNG.
Oaktree b (
talk)
00:53, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
- Those are both interviews, which are primary sources and can't be used to establish notability. JMB1980 ( talk) 22:47, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
- Comment Seems verified by Mix magazine, which should be reliable as an industry magazine
[2]. Also the fact that the subject may have created the article is probably moot now as it was over 16 years ago with 70+ edits by over 40 users. —
siro
χ
o
07:43, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
- His name appears once in the rather lengthy Mix article; this is the very definition of a trivial mention (see
WP:SIGCOV). The fact that he apparently had to create this page himself is relevant because it is a testament to his lack of notability. Per
WP:AUTOBIO: 'If your life and achievements are verifiable and genuinely notable, someone else will probably create an article about you sooner or later, but creating an article about yourself is strongly discouraged'.
JMB1980 (
talk)
06:28, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
- The Mix magazine reference just helps with independence/verifiability. Other sources may be able to provide SIGCOV. It's definitely a borderline case so every bit helps.
- Perhaps making the decision a bit harder, but fairer, I don't think the fact that the subject likely created the page 16 years go should affect this current AfD due to the gap in time and the edit history of the article. Any number of independent editors could have created the page in the interim. —
siro
χ
o
06:51, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
- I think you're jumping ahead. First, notability needs to be proven, and only SIGCOV can prove notability. Without any instances of significant and independent coverage, this page doesn't meet WP:GNG guidelines and should be deleted.
- It's impossible to say for certain whether or not an independent editor would have created this page if given the opportunity, but it seems unlikely. Under 75 edits in almost 17 years isn't a lot of engagement compared to other articles of similar age, and many edits can be accounted for by editors making multiple edits (including Marktinley) and bots. The fact that this is an apparent autobiography is not the deciding factor in whether or not the article should be deleted, but I do think it should be taken into consideration. JMB1980 ( talk) 17:10, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
- His name appears once in the rather lengthy Mix article; this is the very definition of a trivial mention (see
WP:SIGCOV). The fact that he apparently had to create this page himself is relevant because it is a testament to his lack of notability. Per
WP:AUTOBIO: 'If your life and achievements are verifiable and genuinely notable, someone else will probably create an article about you sooner or later, but creating an article about yourself is strongly discouraged'.
JMB1980 (
talk)
06:28, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and England. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 09:05, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
- Delete. Sources in the article are poor. Book source mentioned in this AFD is a 6 page chapter about Mark Tinely, but over half of it is quotes, suggesting that the entire chapter was written based off the content of an interview, so not intellectually independent. Does not appear to pass WP:GNG. No redirect target comes to mind. – Novem Linguae ( talk) 23:58, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗ plicit 00:30, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
- Comment. Whenever you encounter a dead link in an article, please consider visiting https://iabot.toolforge.org/index.php to try to fix the link. I did, and InternetArchiveBot was able to fix the dead link that the nominator mentioned. Perhaps this should be added to WP:BEFORE Eastmain ( talk • contribs) 01:08, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 00:17, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
- Keep - there appears to be secondary content in sources (
Sound on Sound,
Mix,
Musician,
etc) that can be used to verify his career and support his
WP:BASIC/
WP:CREATIVE notability as part of
Duran Duran and other groups; the
book source also includes biographical information, e.g. about his career and his Asperger's diagnosis.
Beccaynr (
talk)
04:24, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
- The WP Library also has a 2019 Mixmag source "The Keyboard Wizards of Acid House," by Thomaas H. Green (Database: MasterFILE Complete), with brief discussion of Tinley and his brother in the context of the development of electronic dance music, e.g. "His brother Mark had co-created one of the earliest UK house tunes, ‘The Garden Of Eden’...". I think sources with secondary context that discuss Tinley decades later add support for notability and can help develop the article. Beccaynr ( talk) 21:43, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Disability-related deletion discussions. Beccaynr ( talk) 18:47, 8 July 2023 (UTC)
- I was unsure as of my previous comment. Now, keep per
WP:BIO,
If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability
. Thanks to the mix of sources, I think we're well into that territory now. Past all that, another interesting boost to notability is that this individual was a feature of an ad campaign in magazines for Iomega Jaz drives (eg [3] lots of printings). As in, the company invoked him by name and image to help advertise their product in magazines. — siro χ o 20:10, 8 July 2023 (UTC) - Comment Just a note that the nominator has been found in an SPI of improperly using multiple accounts. But they are not a sockpuppet evading a block, they are a sockmaster. So, I've unstruck their nomination statement. Liz Read! Talk! 00:46, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. signed, Rosguill talk 02:10, 13 July 2023 (UTC)
Mark Tinley
AfDs for this article:
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Mark Tinley ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Fails WP:GNG. Relies exclusively on primary sources; current sourcing consists of a post he wrote himself, two interviews, a non-independent source with a trivial mention of him, and a webpage that doesn't mention him. I was unable to find any good secondary sources. Much of the information in the article is unverified (probably unverifiable) and possibly false. A few examples: he is not credited on several of the albums the article claims he worked on; the article claims he founded several nightclubs, yet there is no evidence of him founding any nightclubs; the article claims he formed the first acid house band, yet no sources about the history of acid house corroborate this; the article claims he is a founding member of the group TV Mania, yet he is not mentioned in the bio on the band's website. Also, it appears to be an autobiography (see WP:AUTOBIO); the creator of the article is called Marktinley ( User:Marktinley). JMB1980 ( talk) 00:20, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
- Keep The Sound on Sound article is listed as a reliable source by source bot. I've found this
[1] in a book, seems ok. I think it's at GNG.
Oaktree b (
talk)
00:53, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
- Those are both interviews, which are primary sources and can't be used to establish notability. JMB1980 ( talk) 22:47, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
- Comment Seems verified by Mix magazine, which should be reliable as an industry magazine
[2]. Also the fact that the subject may have created the article is probably moot now as it was over 16 years ago with 70+ edits by over 40 users. —
siro
χ
o
07:43, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
- His name appears once in the rather lengthy Mix article; this is the very definition of a trivial mention (see
WP:SIGCOV). The fact that he apparently had to create this page himself is relevant because it is a testament to his lack of notability. Per
WP:AUTOBIO: 'If your life and achievements are verifiable and genuinely notable, someone else will probably create an article about you sooner or later, but creating an article about yourself is strongly discouraged'.
JMB1980 (
talk)
06:28, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
- The Mix magazine reference just helps with independence/verifiability. Other sources may be able to provide SIGCOV. It's definitely a borderline case so every bit helps.
- Perhaps making the decision a bit harder, but fairer, I don't think the fact that the subject likely created the page 16 years go should affect this current AfD due to the gap in time and the edit history of the article. Any number of independent editors could have created the page in the interim. —
siro
χ
o
06:51, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
- I think you're jumping ahead. First, notability needs to be proven, and only SIGCOV can prove notability. Without any instances of significant and independent coverage, this page doesn't meet WP:GNG guidelines and should be deleted.
- It's impossible to say for certain whether or not an independent editor would have created this page if given the opportunity, but it seems unlikely. Under 75 edits in almost 17 years isn't a lot of engagement compared to other articles of similar age, and many edits can be accounted for by editors making multiple edits (including Marktinley) and bots. The fact that this is an apparent autobiography is not the deciding factor in whether or not the article should be deleted, but I do think it should be taken into consideration. JMB1980 ( talk) 17:10, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
- His name appears once in the rather lengthy Mix article; this is the very definition of a trivial mention (see
WP:SIGCOV). The fact that he apparently had to create this page himself is relevant because it is a testament to his lack of notability. Per
WP:AUTOBIO: 'If your life and achievements are verifiable and genuinely notable, someone else will probably create an article about you sooner or later, but creating an article about yourself is strongly discouraged'.
JMB1980 (
talk)
06:28, 22 June 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians and England. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 09:05, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
- Delete. Sources in the article are poor. Book source mentioned in this AFD is a 6 page chapter about Mark Tinely, but over half of it is quotes, suggesting that the entire chapter was written based off the content of an interview, so not intellectually independent. Does not appear to pass WP:GNG. No redirect target comes to mind. – Novem Linguae ( talk) 23:58, 21 June 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ✗ plicit 00:30, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
- Comment. Whenever you encounter a dead link in an article, please consider visiting https://iabot.toolforge.org/index.php to try to fix the link. I did, and InternetArchiveBot was able to fix the dead link that the nominator mentioned. Perhaps this should be added to WP:BEFORE Eastmain ( talk • contribs) 01:08, 28 June 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 00:17, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
- Keep - there appears to be secondary content in sources (
Sound on Sound,
Mix,
Musician,
etc) that can be used to verify his career and support his
WP:BASIC/
WP:CREATIVE notability as part of
Duran Duran and other groups; the
book source also includes biographical information, e.g. about his career and his Asperger's diagnosis.
Beccaynr (
talk)
04:24, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
- The WP Library also has a 2019 Mixmag source "The Keyboard Wizards of Acid House," by Thomaas H. Green (Database: MasterFILE Complete), with brief discussion of Tinley and his brother in the context of the development of electronic dance music, e.g. "His brother Mark had co-created one of the earliest UK house tunes, ‘The Garden Of Eden’...". I think sources with secondary context that discuss Tinley decades later add support for notability and can help develop the article. Beccaynr ( talk) 21:43, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Disability-related deletion discussions. Beccaynr ( talk) 18:47, 8 July 2023 (UTC)
- I was unsure as of my previous comment. Now, keep per
WP:BIO,
If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability
. Thanks to the mix of sources, I think we're well into that territory now. Past all that, another interesting boost to notability is that this individual was a feature of an ad campaign in magazines for Iomega Jaz drives (eg [3] lots of printings). As in, the company invoked him by name and image to help advertise their product in magazines. — siro χ o 20:10, 8 July 2023 (UTC) - Comment Just a note that the nominator has been found in an SPI of improperly using multiple accounts. But they are not a sockpuppet evading a block, they are a sockmaster. So, I've unstruck their nomination statement. Liz Read! Talk! 00:46, 12 July 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.