- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was redirect to Atragon. Liz Read! Talk! 08:19, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
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- Manda (kaiju) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Minor fictional monester (kaiju) from the Godzillaverse. Pure plot summary + list of media it appears in. No reception, no analysis. Poor referencing (including fanpages, even fan wiki - wikizilla). Article on ja wiki is no better. Per ATD, the best non-hard-deletion outcome I can think of would be redirecting this to the movie it debuted in ( Atragon). Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:36, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Fictional elements, Science fiction and fantasy, Film, and Japan. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:36, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Meh. It appears in so many different media, it would be nice if List of kaiju were actually that, or failing such a list, retaining it along a similar rationale as BAND#6. That is, while not individually notable, it's been a part of too many notable ensembles (movies, etc.) for a merge to just one to be appropriate. Jclemens ( talk) 04:17, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Redirect to Atragon, the first movie to feature the creature and where it actually had a prominent role. The other movies and pieces of media listed in its "filmography" were largely just very quick cameos (with the appearances in All Monsters Attack and Terror of Mechagodzilla being nothing but reused stock footage, if I recall). Even its biggest appearance in a film since its debut ( Godzilla: Final Wars) is only a couple of minutes long. Atragon is the only piece of media where it actually had a central role to the plot, thus would be the proper place to redirect. Rorshacma ( talk) 20:51, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Meh per Jclemens. There ought to be a better way to handle this but in the absence of better sources I can't object to a redirect to Atragon. Eluchil404 ( talk) 00:47, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 07:54, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
- Keep because while the Japanese article isn't great, it does list Japanese-language sources that prove notability. I did a search and it's a bit difficult to filter through other uses in Japanese but I think there's more there as well.
DCsansei (
talk)
14:02, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
- @
DCsansei Which sources prove notability and how? I translated that article too and I did not notice them.
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here
04:34, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
- The character has appeared in quite a number of notable media and has substantial coverage in various reliably sourced coverage of those in Japanese. I think it easily passes the threshold for notability.
- Again, I'd like to remind editors that
WP:NOENG is, even if often ignored in these discussions, something to keep in mind.
DCsansei (
talk)
21:58, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
- As Piotrus asked, you are really going to have to point out which sources you are talking about in specific for this to be more than a WP:THEREMUSTBESOURCES argument. Because looking at the Japanese wiki article, the actual content is nothing but plot summaries and technical information on the production of the special effects with no kind of analysis or reception of the monster itself. And a lot of those sources being used look to be officially licensed Toho material, including a couple pieces of fiction. And saying "the character has appeared in quite a number of notable media" is never going to be enough to establish notability, particular since, as I already talked about above, nearly all of those appearances were brief cameos, sometimes just re-using existing footage. 03:38, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
- @
DCsansei Which sources prove notability and how? I translated that article too and I did not notice them.
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here
04:34, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was redirect to Atragon. Liz Read! Talk! 08:19, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Manda (kaiju) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Minor fictional monester (kaiju) from the Godzillaverse. Pure plot summary + list of media it appears in. No reception, no analysis. Poor referencing (including fanpages, even fan wiki - wikizilla). Article on ja wiki is no better. Per ATD, the best non-hard-deletion outcome I can think of would be redirecting this to the movie it debuted in ( Atragon). Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:36, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Fictional elements, Science fiction and fantasy, Film, and Japan. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:36, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Meh. It appears in so many different media, it would be nice if List of kaiju were actually that, or failing such a list, retaining it along a similar rationale as BAND#6. That is, while not individually notable, it's been a part of too many notable ensembles (movies, etc.) for a merge to just one to be appropriate. Jclemens ( talk) 04:17, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Redirect to Atragon, the first movie to feature the creature and where it actually had a prominent role. The other movies and pieces of media listed in its "filmography" were largely just very quick cameos (with the appearances in All Monsters Attack and Terror of Mechagodzilla being nothing but reused stock footage, if I recall). Even its biggest appearance in a film since its debut ( Godzilla: Final Wars) is only a couple of minutes long. Atragon is the only piece of media where it actually had a central role to the plot, thus would be the proper place to redirect. Rorshacma ( talk) 20:51, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Meh per Jclemens. There ought to be a better way to handle this but in the absence of better sources I can't object to a redirect to Atragon. Eluchil404 ( talk) 00:47, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 07:54, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
- Keep because while the Japanese article isn't great, it does list Japanese-language sources that prove notability. I did a search and it's a bit difficult to filter through other uses in Japanese but I think there's more there as well.
DCsansei (
talk)
14:02, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
- @
DCsansei Which sources prove notability and how? I translated that article too and I did not notice them.
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here
04:34, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
- The character has appeared in quite a number of notable media and has substantial coverage in various reliably sourced coverage of those in Japanese. I think it easily passes the threshold for notability.
- Again, I'd like to remind editors that
WP:NOENG is, even if often ignored in these discussions, something to keep in mind.
DCsansei (
talk)
21:58, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
- As Piotrus asked, you are really going to have to point out which sources you are talking about in specific for this to be more than a WP:THEREMUSTBESOURCES argument. Because looking at the Japanese wiki article, the actual content is nothing but plot summaries and technical information on the production of the special effects with no kind of analysis or reception of the monster itself. And a lot of those sources being used look to be officially licensed Toho material, including a couple pieces of fiction. And saying "the character has appeared in quite a number of notable media" is never going to be enough to establish notability, particular since, as I already talked about above, nearly all of those appearances were brief cameos, sometimes just re-using existing footage. 03:38, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
- @
DCsansei Which sources prove notability and how? I translated that article too and I did not notice them.
Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus|
reply here
04:34, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.