- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Consensus is that this is out of Wikipedia's scope per NOTGUIDE. The dissents are unpersuasive in light of applicable policy: for "it's useful" see WP:ITSUSEFUL, and as regards the view "I imagine that competitive Mahjong rules would have received extensive coverage": we require specific sources, not imagined ones. Most people support a transwiki, so if somebody wants to do the work required for that, they can contact WP:REFUND and request userfication for that purpose. The same applies if somebody wants to use this as a basis for an article on competition mahjong or similar. Sandstein 08:13, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
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- Mahjong Competition Rules ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Someone at the help desk suggested that I come here and suggest transwiki. If that's not a good idea, then this article should be deleted.
This long article covers one set of rules for Mahjong, a specific kind of game. There are two reasons for deletion: (1) Wikipedia is not a game guide. It's good if an article discusses the basics of a game's rules, like Mahjong#Old Hong Kong mahjong rules, but a very long article giving lots of different scoring options and terminology, plus instructions ("If you can use a set to form both a high-score fan and a low-score fan, it is your right to choose the high-score fan.), is not appropriate for an encyclopedia. (2) The topic is already extensively covered in Mahjong#Rules, so there's no need to merge it there. 123.51.107.94 ( talk) 13:32, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
- Delete. Clear and unambiguous violation of WP:NOTGUIDE. AndyTheGrump ( talk) 13:40, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
- Comment: that looks like a very useful page with a lot of work put into it. It shouldn't be deleted from the Wikimedia world but this isn't the place for it -- Wikibooks is a better place, so the trans wiki idea is a good one. I'm not sure how to do it.
- 123.51.107.94, thanks for flagging this -it needs a better home.
- -- A. B. ( talk • contribs • global count) 16:58, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: China, Games, Hong Kong, Singapore, Japan, Taiwan and Judaism. -- A. B. ( talk • contribs • global count) 17:09, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
- Here's a page from Wikibooks on how to transwiki: b:Help:Importing.
- Also, if someone does this, I suggest putting links on the appropriate Wikipedia mahjong pages to the Wikibooks article.
- Finally, I wonder if we transwiki this article, is it possible to have redirect on Wikipedia that goes to another project?
- This is deep content with many edits from a range of editors - it really should be kept somewhere.
- --
A. B. (
talk •
contribs •
global count)
17:34, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
- I'd have thought that if these are 'official rules', they must already be documented, and made available, by the body that created the rules. In which case, what purpose exactly is served by duplicating them? Links to 'official rules' should go to the original, not to potentially-inaccurate or out of date copies. AndyTheGrump ( talk) 18:11, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
- I've left notes at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Board and table games and Talk:Mahjong asking for input.-- A. B. ( talk • contribs • global count) 18:53, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
- Delete or redirect or transwiki to Wikibooks as suggested. As written, this fails NOTAGUIDE/HOWTO and has issues with GNG. If nobody transwikis this before closing, I recommend SOFTDELETE and redirecting it to article on Mahjong. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 04:33, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
- Agree with transwiki to wikibooks. Even if the article title meets GNG (likely does, if someone cares to write it someday), this is not the correct article for the title. It's been more than 15 years since I touched wikibooks but i'm willing to do a WP:BOLD transwiki there if that's the consensus. — siro χ o 06:09, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
- Support transwiki, oppose deletion. Even if it fails WP:NOTGUIDE I must say that this is a very comprehensive article and it would be extremely useful for people who want to study mahjong. Whatever the outcome is the contents in my opinion should not be deleted, but yes this needs a better home like what someone else said. S5A-0043 Talk 05:29, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
- Comment. It seems to me that people are going off on a rather pointless tangent here, with regard to 'transwiki' proposals. 'Transwiki' simply isn't a legitimate closing decision. It cannot be, since En.Wikipedia has no control over other projects. If anyone thinks content is appropriate for Wikibooks, they can (as long as they comply with the relevant licensing terms) copy it there at any time, regardless of whether the article is kept or deleted here. They don't need approval here to do so. The decision as to whether it belongs there is down to that project, not this one. The only decision we need to make here is whether the article belongs on Wikipedia. AndyTheGrump ( talk) 12:33, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
- Delete here, if anyone wants to take it to another project they are welcome to do so. Fulmard ( talk) 18:44, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
- Keep, support transwiki. WP:NOTGUIDE states "Avoid lists of gameplay concepts and items unless these are notable as discussed in secondary sources in their own right in gaming context." Although the article currently has not too many citations, I imagine that competitive Mahjong rules would have received extensive coverage in, for example, Chinese-language media. I think that the article can be renamed to Competitive mahjong, for example, with the rules relegated to a section of the article, and other coverage of competition mahjong be included. I will try to find some mahjong coverage sources later. Dawkin Verbier ( talk) 06:18, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Consensus is that this is out of Wikipedia's scope per NOTGUIDE. The dissents are unpersuasive in light of applicable policy: for "it's useful" see WP:ITSUSEFUL, and as regards the view "I imagine that competitive Mahjong rules would have received extensive coverage": we require specific sources, not imagined ones. Most people support a transwiki, so if somebody wants to do the work required for that, they can contact WP:REFUND and request userfication for that purpose. The same applies if somebody wants to use this as a basis for an article on competition mahjong or similar. Sandstein 08:13, 4 August 2023 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Mahjong Competition Rules ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Someone at the help desk suggested that I come here and suggest transwiki. If that's not a good idea, then this article should be deleted.
This long article covers one set of rules for Mahjong, a specific kind of game. There are two reasons for deletion: (1) Wikipedia is not a game guide. It's good if an article discusses the basics of a game's rules, like Mahjong#Old Hong Kong mahjong rules, but a very long article giving lots of different scoring options and terminology, plus instructions ("If you can use a set to form both a high-score fan and a low-score fan, it is your right to choose the high-score fan.), is not appropriate for an encyclopedia. (2) The topic is already extensively covered in Mahjong#Rules, so there's no need to merge it there. 123.51.107.94 ( talk) 13:32, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
- Delete. Clear and unambiguous violation of WP:NOTGUIDE. AndyTheGrump ( talk) 13:40, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
- Comment: that looks like a very useful page with a lot of work put into it. It shouldn't be deleted from the Wikimedia world but this isn't the place for it -- Wikibooks is a better place, so the trans wiki idea is a good one. I'm not sure how to do it.
- 123.51.107.94, thanks for flagging this -it needs a better home.
- -- A. B. ( talk • contribs • global count) 16:58, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: China, Games, Hong Kong, Singapore, Japan, Taiwan and Judaism. -- A. B. ( talk • contribs • global count) 17:09, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
- Here's a page from Wikibooks on how to transwiki: b:Help:Importing.
- Also, if someone does this, I suggest putting links on the appropriate Wikipedia mahjong pages to the Wikibooks article.
- Finally, I wonder if we transwiki this article, is it possible to have redirect on Wikipedia that goes to another project?
- This is deep content with many edits from a range of editors - it really should be kept somewhere.
- --
A. B. (
talk •
contribs •
global count)
17:34, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
- I'd have thought that if these are 'official rules', they must already be documented, and made available, by the body that created the rules. In which case, what purpose exactly is served by duplicating them? Links to 'official rules' should go to the original, not to potentially-inaccurate or out of date copies. AndyTheGrump ( talk) 18:11, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
- I've left notes at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Board and table games and Talk:Mahjong asking for input.-- A. B. ( talk • contribs • global count) 18:53, 27 July 2023 (UTC)
- Delete or redirect or transwiki to Wikibooks as suggested. As written, this fails NOTAGUIDE/HOWTO and has issues with GNG. If nobody transwikis this before closing, I recommend SOFTDELETE and redirecting it to article on Mahjong. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 04:33, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
- Agree with transwiki to wikibooks. Even if the article title meets GNG (likely does, if someone cares to write it someday), this is not the correct article for the title. It's been more than 15 years since I touched wikibooks but i'm willing to do a WP:BOLD transwiki there if that's the consensus. — siro χ o 06:09, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
- Support transwiki, oppose deletion. Even if it fails WP:NOTGUIDE I must say that this is a very comprehensive article and it would be extremely useful for people who want to study mahjong. Whatever the outcome is the contents in my opinion should not be deleted, but yes this needs a better home like what someone else said. S5A-0043 Talk 05:29, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
- Comment. It seems to me that people are going off on a rather pointless tangent here, with regard to 'transwiki' proposals. 'Transwiki' simply isn't a legitimate closing decision. It cannot be, since En.Wikipedia has no control over other projects. If anyone thinks content is appropriate for Wikibooks, they can (as long as they comply with the relevant licensing terms) copy it there at any time, regardless of whether the article is kept or deleted here. They don't need approval here to do so. The decision as to whether it belongs there is down to that project, not this one. The only decision we need to make here is whether the article belongs on Wikipedia. AndyTheGrump ( talk) 12:33, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
- Delete here, if anyone wants to take it to another project they are welcome to do so. Fulmard ( talk) 18:44, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
- Keep, support transwiki. WP:NOTGUIDE states "Avoid lists of gameplay concepts and items unless these are notable as discussed in secondary sources in their own right in gaming context." Although the article currently has not too many citations, I imagine that competitive Mahjong rules would have received extensive coverage in, for example, Chinese-language media. I think that the article can be renamed to Competitive mahjong, for example, with the rules relegated to a section of the article, and other coverage of competition mahjong be included. I will try to find some mahjong coverage sources later. Dawkin Verbier ( talk) 06:18, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.