- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. There is a disagreement on whether to keep or redirect, but as far as rationales that directly address the issue of notability and sourcing (rather than cleanup-related issues like the unsourced portions or fancruft) there appears to be a general consensus that the sourcing is sufficient to show notability. Aoidh ( talk) 15:07, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
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- Mach Five ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
AFD requested at WP:AFD. Rationale: Does not appear to be independently notable. NotAGenious ( talk) 16:14, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Anime and manga-related deletion discussions. NotAGenious ( talk) 16:14, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 16:19, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Redirect The current article is pure WP:FANCRUFT, poorly referenced too. My BEFORE shows this is a minor popculture icon (at the level of many similar things that appeared in the background of Ready Player One, for exmaple), but I can't find any WP:SIGCOV analysis of it. The best source I found is this local news piece (fron The Everett Herald) about a fan building a replica: [1]. I don't think this is enough. (there is a two-page description in this self-published book, not very helpful given its nature). This could be redirected to Speed_Racer#The_Mach_5 for now per ATD. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:49, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Motorsport, Transportation, and Japan. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:49, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Keep References 5 and 8 appear sufficient to meet GNG, although the former needs to be located in archive. The sheer number of cultural references should be a clue that this is too iconic an element to be redirected or merged anywhere.
Jclemens (
talk)
04:31, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- The cultural references are pretty minor and unsourced; 5 and 8 don't seem to indicate cultural significance (they are more about the movie and the car they made for it than anything)
38.75.235.237 (
talk)
15:09, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- ... and they wouldn't be real-world transformations of the fictional vehicle if it weren't already notable.
Jclemens (
talk)
21:03, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Either way, there is no real analysis of this in sources; they're talking about it in the context of the franchise
38.75.235.237 (
talk)
21:15, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Non-sequitur. Fictional elements are almost always talked about "in the context of the franchise" but doing so non-trivially by independent RS'es establishes notability. Also note for the record that this IP address is the one for whom this nomination was originally opened, so should be understood to not be a separate individual than the nominator. Jclemens ( talk) 17:08, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Either way, there is no real analysis of this in sources; they're talking about it in the context of the franchise
38.75.235.237 (
talk)
21:15, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- ... and they wouldn't be real-world transformations of the fictional vehicle if it weren't already notable.
Jclemens (
talk)
21:03, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- The cultural references are pretty minor and unsourced; 5 and 8 don't seem to indicate cultural significance (they are more about the movie and the car they made for it than anything)
38.75.235.237 (
talk)
15:09, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Comment I'm not going to !vote on this AfD, as I have a decades-old-and-thus-now-minor
WP:COI with regard to the Speed Racer franchise. However, I thought I should note that there has been at least one publication focused on the Mach 5. The
Speed Racer Special, published in 1988, had a car-focused comics story followed by 10 pages of history and technical specs about the Mach 5. I don't know if this moves the needle for anyone's consideration. --
Nat Gertler (
talk)
17:45, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- I should also note that the "real" Mach 5s, which we are currently using an anime website for as a reference, got mainstream newspaper coverage. -- Nat Gertler ( talk) 17:56, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- That is a primary source 38.75.235.237 ( talk) 23:40, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Redirect Per WP:TNT, with no objection to recreation if the article can be improved with sources, or during this discussion per WP:HEY. Right now it is completely unsalvageable. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ ( ᴛ) 21:54, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
Neutralhttps://www.forbes.com/2008/05/07/fastest-fictional-cars-forbeslife-cx_mn_de_0507fictional_slide.html?sh=4605943936de is all I could find. Dream Focus 15:29, 22 November 2023 (UTC)- Redirect to Speed Racer#The Mach 5 - The current article needs a complete rewriting, and even then, I am not convinced that the car is notable enough on its own that a separate article from the series main article would even make sense. The sources both in the article and presented here are not great - even the ones being noted as being the best ones here are simply on the fact that real life props/replicas of the car have been made, rather than any kind of genuine analysis or reception of the actual fictional car the article is about. Rorshacma ( talk) 16:41, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:13, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
- Keep per Jclemens's sources and the "In popular culture" section. It does need more reception and more sources but AFD is not cleanup. I also agree that "The "real" Mach Five" would not exist if the fictional Mach Five was not notable. DaniloDaysOfOurLives ( talk) 07:38, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
- Keep Jclemens make a good point. Dream Focus 05:36, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
- Keep This clearly passes the GNG and there's coverage in Japanese. WP:NOENG applies here. DCsansei ( talk) 22:00, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting one more time. Opinion and arguments are split right down the middle on whether or not sources are sufficient to establish notability. Let's see if another week can tip the scales between Keep and Redirect. Thanks to those participants who took the effort to go looking for additional sources.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:07, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
- Redirect Per WP:TNT. Article is mostly unsourced. GreenishPickle! ( 🔔) 01:51, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
- Keep. Meets WP:GNG with 2 sources noted by JClemens and the 2 newspapers.com clippings by Nat Gertler. Current article doesn't require TNT and can serve as a basis for an improved article. — siro χ o 22:14, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
- Redirect to Speed Racer#The Mach 5. Fails GNG, Nothing with WP:SIGCOV addressing the subject directly and indepth from WP:IS WP:RS found in article or above. If SIGCOV sources are ever found, it would take WP:TNT to create a proper article, as written this is just WP:OR fancruft. // Timothy :: talk 00:33, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. There is a disagreement on whether to keep or redirect, but as far as rationales that directly address the issue of notability and sourcing (rather than cleanup-related issues like the unsourced portions or fancruft) there appears to be a general consensus that the sourcing is sufficient to show notability. Aoidh ( talk) 15:07, 9 December 2023 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Mach Five ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
AFD requested at WP:AFD. Rationale: Does not appear to be independently notable. NotAGenious ( talk) 16:14, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Anime and manga-related deletion discussions. NotAGenious ( talk) 16:14, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 16:19, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Redirect The current article is pure WP:FANCRUFT, poorly referenced too. My BEFORE shows this is a minor popculture icon (at the level of many similar things that appeared in the background of Ready Player One, for exmaple), but I can't find any WP:SIGCOV analysis of it. The best source I found is this local news piece (fron The Everett Herald) about a fan building a replica: [1]. I don't think this is enough. (there is a two-page description in this self-published book, not very helpful given its nature). This could be redirected to Speed_Racer#The_Mach_5 for now per ATD. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:49, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Motorsport, Transportation, and Japan. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 02:49, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Keep References 5 and 8 appear sufficient to meet GNG, although the former needs to be located in archive. The sheer number of cultural references should be a clue that this is too iconic an element to be redirected or merged anywhere.
Jclemens (
talk)
04:31, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- The cultural references are pretty minor and unsourced; 5 and 8 don't seem to indicate cultural significance (they are more about the movie and the car they made for it than anything)
38.75.235.237 (
talk)
15:09, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- ... and they wouldn't be real-world transformations of the fictional vehicle if it weren't already notable.
Jclemens (
talk)
21:03, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Either way, there is no real analysis of this in sources; they're talking about it in the context of the franchise
38.75.235.237 (
talk)
21:15, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Non-sequitur. Fictional elements are almost always talked about "in the context of the franchise" but doing so non-trivially by independent RS'es establishes notability. Also note for the record that this IP address is the one for whom this nomination was originally opened, so should be understood to not be a separate individual than the nominator. Jclemens ( talk) 17:08, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Either way, there is no real analysis of this in sources; they're talking about it in the context of the franchise
38.75.235.237 (
talk)
21:15, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- ... and they wouldn't be real-world transformations of the fictional vehicle if it weren't already notable.
Jclemens (
talk)
21:03, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- The cultural references are pretty minor and unsourced; 5 and 8 don't seem to indicate cultural significance (they are more about the movie and the car they made for it than anything)
38.75.235.237 (
talk)
15:09, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Comment I'm not going to !vote on this AfD, as I have a decades-old-and-thus-now-minor
WP:COI with regard to the Speed Racer franchise. However, I thought I should note that there has been at least one publication focused on the Mach 5. The
Speed Racer Special, published in 1988, had a car-focused comics story followed by 10 pages of history and technical specs about the Mach 5. I don't know if this moves the needle for anyone's consideration. --
Nat Gertler (
talk)
17:45, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- I should also note that the "real" Mach 5s, which we are currently using an anime website for as a reference, got mainstream newspaper coverage. -- Nat Gertler ( talk) 17:56, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- That is a primary source 38.75.235.237 ( talk) 23:40, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- Redirect Per WP:TNT, with no objection to recreation if the article can be improved with sources, or during this discussion per WP:HEY. Right now it is completely unsalvageable. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ ( ᴛ) 21:54, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
Neutralhttps://www.forbes.com/2008/05/07/fastest-fictional-cars-forbeslife-cx_mn_de_0507fictional_slide.html?sh=4605943936de is all I could find. Dream Focus 15:29, 22 November 2023 (UTC)- Redirect to Speed Racer#The Mach 5 - The current article needs a complete rewriting, and even then, I am not convinced that the car is notable enough on its own that a separate article from the series main article would even make sense. The sources both in the article and presented here are not great - even the ones being noted as being the best ones here are simply on the fact that real life props/replicas of the car have been made, rather than any kind of genuine analysis or reception of the actual fictional car the article is about. Rorshacma ( talk) 16:41, 23 November 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:13, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
- Keep per Jclemens's sources and the "In popular culture" section. It does need more reception and more sources but AFD is not cleanup. I also agree that "The "real" Mach Five" would not exist if the fictional Mach Five was not notable. DaniloDaysOfOurLives ( talk) 07:38, 26 November 2023 (UTC)
- Keep Jclemens make a good point. Dream Focus 05:36, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
- Keep This clearly passes the GNG and there's coverage in Japanese. WP:NOENG applies here. DCsansei ( talk) 22:00, 28 November 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting one more time. Opinion and arguments are split right down the middle on whether or not sources are sufficient to establish notability. Let's see if another week can tip the scales between Keep and Redirect. Thanks to those participants who took the effort to go looking for additional sources.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 23:07, 1 December 2023 (UTC)
- Redirect Per WP:TNT. Article is mostly unsourced. GreenishPickle! ( 🔔) 01:51, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
- Keep. Meets WP:GNG with 2 sources noted by JClemens and the 2 newspapers.com clippings by Nat Gertler. Current article doesn't require TNT and can serve as a basis for an improved article. — siro χ o 22:14, 2 December 2023 (UTC)
- Redirect to Speed Racer#The Mach 5. Fails GNG, Nothing with WP:SIGCOV addressing the subject directly and indepth from WP:IS WP:RS found in article or above. If SIGCOV sources are ever found, it would take WP:TNT to create a proper article, as written this is just WP:OR fancruft. // Timothy :: talk 00:33, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.