- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. I see a consensus to Keep this article. Liz Read! Talk! 00:27, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
Joshua P. Kolar
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- Joshua P. Kolar ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Subject does not meet the WP:GNG as a judicial nominee due to a lack of independent, significant coverage. Originally sent this back to a draft after it was originally created but someone else decided to move it back to mainspace so here we are again. Let'srun ( talk) 15:45, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the
deletion sorting lists for the following topics:
People,
Law,
United States of America, and
Indiana.
Let'srun (
talk)
15:45, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
- I vote keep. I am someone who has an interest in the legal system and has an interest in politics. These judicial nominees receive a lot of press and news coverage and I the first place I turn to read up or refresh my memory about the nominees is Wikipedia. As a user, it is incredibly frustrating to not have these pages available. I don't understand why any contestant on a reality tv show can get a wikipedia page but a person nominated to our highest courts (Fed III) has to jump through a ton of hoops. What exactly is the harm of keeping the page. If for some reason, he doesn't get confirmed, delete it then. Cazer78 ( talk) 23:22, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
- I disagree, as Kolar has been a magistrate judge for the Northern District of Indiana since 2019. He also serves as a lieutenant commander in the U.S. navy reserve.
- I generally agree judicial nominees don't meet notability, as merely being a nominee is insufficient, but there are cases where judicial nominees are already judges on lower courts (or magistrate judges) including this one. They can also have similar notability due to military leadership or prior legal work that has received independent coverage.
JohnAdams1800 (
talk)
15:49, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
- Might you point me to the notability guideline that says a magistrate judge or lieutenant commander in the U.S. navy reserve is notable? Kolar has never been a judge on a statewide court, so
WP:JUDGE does not apply.
Let'srun (
talk)
16:59, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
- Per WP:USJUDGE: "Magistrate judges and bankruptcy judges are appointed by the court of the district in which they sit. Such judges are not inherently notable, but holding such a position is evidence of notability that can be established by other strong indicia of notability." I believe Kolar's military service along with being an incumbent magistrate judge indicates his notability.
- US Navy Records Indicating Kolar was a lieutenant commander:
-
[1]
https://www.navy.mil/Resources/ALNAVs/Message/Article/2235726/fy-19-navy-reserve-lieutenant-commander-line-selections/
JohnAdams1800 (
talk)
17:44, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
- WP:USCJN is an essay, not a notability guideline. Let'srun ( talk) 17:50, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
- Might you point me to the notability guideline that says a magistrate judge or lieutenant commander in the U.S. navy reserve is notable? Kolar has never been a judge on a statewide court, so
WP:JUDGE does not apply.
Let'srun (
talk)
16:59, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
- Keep per WP:USJUDGE. Kolar holds a "sub-national (statewide/provincewide) office". Jaireeodell ( talk) 23:16, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
- Comment I'm just trying to figure out the logic here. This article gets created as a draft in September and bounced around between draft and main. And then this month, gets nominated as an AfC and ultimately approved and reviewed/patrolled by a different editor. And then within three hours of being moved to main (again) today gets nominated for AfD? I need someone to explain to me the standard practice to follow if and when a draft gets moved and patrolled, but still apparently doesn't meet WP:GNG per the current AfD discussion. Snickers2686 ( talk) 17:44, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
- Keep. He meets
WP:JUDGE. It would be incorrect to interpret federal judicial service in a state that subdivides its federal courts (like in Indiana) any differently from those states that don't (such as New Jersey, for example.) I don't know why a couple of people keep tying themselves in knots over this.
Valadius (
talk)
22:04, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
- The states don't divide (or not divide) their federal courts. Congress does that. Irrespective of whether there is such a division, judicial service as a magistrate judge (basically a glorified assistant to an Article III federal judge) does not constitute "state/province–wide office" any more than does service as a bailiff or law clerk to an Article III judge.
BD2412
T
22:59, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
- I think you misunderstand the role of a magistrate judge. Magistrates frequently rule on substantive issues. Their rulings are precedent is. That a district judge can overrule them is besides the point — the comparison to a clerk is inappropriate. 165.82.238.249 ( talk) 22:19, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
- The states don't divide (or not divide) their federal courts. Congress does that. Irrespective of whether there is such a division, judicial service as a magistrate judge (basically a glorified assistant to an Article III federal judge) does not constitute "state/province–wide office" any more than does service as a bailiff or law clerk to an Article III judge.
BD2412
T
22:59, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
- Comment: Kolar will be appointed to the 7th Circuit (any day now) or, if not, he will become the subject of a lot of consternation in the news ... right? In either case, he will be notable. I think it would be a mistake to delete this and then hope that editors will recreate it. --
Jaireeodell (
talk)
23:16, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
- You are probably right, but that is WP:CRYSTAL. That is why draft space exists, but some editors have to rush things. Let'srun ( talk) 01:47, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
- Keep They meets WP:JUDGE. ~~ αvírαm| (tαlk) 03:08, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
- Keep There is absolutely no reason to take down a wikipedia page for a judicial nominee. We should be focusing on expanding Wikipedia, not contracting it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.211.154.91 ( talk) 07:55, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Policy-based input would be helpful.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star Mississippi 01:13, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
- Keep, I would be willing to argue that this article might not be notable for being a magistrate judge. But he's about to become a circuit judge and that clearly passes WP:JUDGE. Also he has enough coverage to pass WP:GNG at this point so it's all moot anyway. Dr vulpes ( 💬 • 📝) 10:26, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
- Draftify until confirmation He does not meet notability requirements for a judge until confirmed, but deleting while his confirmation is pending is probably counterproductive. TulsaPoliticsFan ( talk) 20:55, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
- Keep The guidelines at
WP:JUDGE specifies that it applies to people who have been elected to such offices but have not yet assumed them so even he is not assuming the position yet, I think he has been "elected" as they have voted him in as well.
✠ SunDawn ✠
(contact)
02:08, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
- Not how it works. Kolar has never been elected as a judge, he was appointed to fill a judicial vacancy by President Biden but has yet to be confirmed (and as such is WP:CRYSTAL to assume he will be confirmed). Let'srun ( talk) 05:29, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. I see a consensus to Keep this article. Liz Read! Talk! 00:27, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
Joshua P. Kolar
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Joshua P. Kolar ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Subject does not meet the WP:GNG as a judicial nominee due to a lack of independent, significant coverage. Originally sent this back to a draft after it was originally created but someone else decided to move it back to mainspace so here we are again. Let'srun ( talk) 15:45, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the
deletion sorting lists for the following topics:
People,
Law,
United States of America, and
Indiana.
Let'srun (
talk)
15:45, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
- I vote keep. I am someone who has an interest in the legal system and has an interest in politics. These judicial nominees receive a lot of press and news coverage and I the first place I turn to read up or refresh my memory about the nominees is Wikipedia. As a user, it is incredibly frustrating to not have these pages available. I don't understand why any contestant on a reality tv show can get a wikipedia page but a person nominated to our highest courts (Fed III) has to jump through a ton of hoops. What exactly is the harm of keeping the page. If for some reason, he doesn't get confirmed, delete it then. Cazer78 ( talk) 23:22, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
- I disagree, as Kolar has been a magistrate judge for the Northern District of Indiana since 2019. He also serves as a lieutenant commander in the U.S. navy reserve.
- I generally agree judicial nominees don't meet notability, as merely being a nominee is insufficient, but there are cases where judicial nominees are already judges on lower courts (or magistrate judges) including this one. They can also have similar notability due to military leadership or prior legal work that has received independent coverage.
JohnAdams1800 (
talk)
15:49, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
- Might you point me to the notability guideline that says a magistrate judge or lieutenant commander in the U.S. navy reserve is notable? Kolar has never been a judge on a statewide court, so
WP:JUDGE does not apply.
Let'srun (
talk)
16:59, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
- Per WP:USJUDGE: "Magistrate judges and bankruptcy judges are appointed by the court of the district in which they sit. Such judges are not inherently notable, but holding such a position is evidence of notability that can be established by other strong indicia of notability." I believe Kolar's military service along with being an incumbent magistrate judge indicates his notability.
- US Navy Records Indicating Kolar was a lieutenant commander:
-
[1]
https://www.navy.mil/Resources/ALNAVs/Message/Article/2235726/fy-19-navy-reserve-lieutenant-commander-line-selections/
JohnAdams1800 (
talk)
17:44, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
- WP:USCJN is an essay, not a notability guideline. Let'srun ( talk) 17:50, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
- Might you point me to the notability guideline that says a magistrate judge or lieutenant commander in the U.S. navy reserve is notable? Kolar has never been a judge on a statewide court, so
WP:JUDGE does not apply.
Let'srun (
talk)
16:59, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
- Keep per WP:USJUDGE. Kolar holds a "sub-national (statewide/provincewide) office". Jaireeodell ( talk) 23:16, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
- Comment I'm just trying to figure out the logic here. This article gets created as a draft in September and bounced around between draft and main. And then this month, gets nominated as an AfC and ultimately approved and reviewed/patrolled by a different editor. And then within three hours of being moved to main (again) today gets nominated for AfD? I need someone to explain to me the standard practice to follow if and when a draft gets moved and patrolled, but still apparently doesn't meet WP:GNG per the current AfD discussion. Snickers2686 ( talk) 17:44, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
- Keep. He meets
WP:JUDGE. It would be incorrect to interpret federal judicial service in a state that subdivides its federal courts (like in Indiana) any differently from those states that don't (such as New Jersey, for example.) I don't know why a couple of people keep tying themselves in knots over this.
Valadius (
talk)
22:04, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
- The states don't divide (or not divide) their federal courts. Congress does that. Irrespective of whether there is such a division, judicial service as a magistrate judge (basically a glorified assistant to an Article III federal judge) does not constitute "state/province–wide office" any more than does service as a bailiff or law clerk to an Article III judge.
BD2412
T
22:59, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
- I think you misunderstand the role of a magistrate judge. Magistrates frequently rule on substantive issues. Their rulings are precedent is. That a district judge can overrule them is besides the point — the comparison to a clerk is inappropriate. 165.82.238.249 ( talk) 22:19, 16 December 2023 (UTC)
- The states don't divide (or not divide) their federal courts. Congress does that. Irrespective of whether there is such a division, judicial service as a magistrate judge (basically a glorified assistant to an Article III federal judge) does not constitute "state/province–wide office" any more than does service as a bailiff or law clerk to an Article III judge.
BD2412
T
22:59, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
- Comment: Kolar will be appointed to the 7th Circuit (any day now) or, if not, he will become the subject of a lot of consternation in the news ... right? In either case, he will be notable. I think it would be a mistake to delete this and then hope that editors will recreate it. --
Jaireeodell (
talk)
23:16, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
- You are probably right, but that is WP:CRYSTAL. That is why draft space exists, but some editors have to rush things. Let'srun ( talk) 01:47, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
- Keep They meets WP:JUDGE. ~~ αvírαm| (tαlk) 03:08, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
- Keep There is absolutely no reason to take down a wikipedia page for a judicial nominee. We should be focusing on expanding Wikipedia, not contracting it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.211.154.91 ( talk) 07:55, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Policy-based input would be helpful.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Star Mississippi 01:13, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
- Keep, I would be willing to argue that this article might not be notable for being a magistrate judge. But he's about to become a circuit judge and that clearly passes WP:JUDGE. Also he has enough coverage to pass WP:GNG at this point so it's all moot anyway. Dr vulpes ( 💬 • 📝) 10:26, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
- Draftify until confirmation He does not meet notability requirements for a judge until confirmed, but deleting while his confirmation is pending is probably counterproductive. TulsaPoliticsFan ( talk) 20:55, 22 December 2023 (UTC)
- Keep The guidelines at
WP:JUDGE specifies that it applies to people who have been elected to such offices but have not yet assumed them so even he is not assuming the position yet, I think he has been "elected" as they have voted him in as well.
✠ SunDawn ✠
(contact)
02:08, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
- Not how it works. Kolar has never been elected as a judge, he was appointed to fill a judicial vacancy by President Biden but has yet to be confirmed (and as such is WP:CRYSTAL to assume he will be confirmed). Let'srun ( talk) 05:29, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.