- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Sufficient secondary sourcing has been shown to exist Star Mississippi 13:33, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
Job Bogmis
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- Job Bogmis ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
None of the sources used contribute to notability: #1, #3 are interviews, #4 is not an independent source (associated with the team of the University he was playing for), #2 does not show significant coverage. I could not find other sources to fulfill WP:GNG. Broc ( talk) 07:41, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
This source "analysis" is infuriating and incorrect... all the sources have secondary coverage ("In Cameroon he spent all day working on whatever he could to help his large family. They had nothing left over. The ball was just entertainment... he has the African presence in his game. Dizzying power and potency... Bogmis has always been a believer, but his faith became more intense during lockdown... he was a figure in the UdeC title in youth football", "Originally from Yaoundé, the capital of the African country... a loan, the difficulties of the climate and language, the desire to return to his country during the pandemic and endless obstacles he had to overcome before his sweet present, the one that has him as one of the figures to follow in the 'B' during this 2022", "The story of Job Bogmis is that of a fighter full of dreams. He arrived in 2019 with three young people from Cameroon. They were all promised heaven, but some were left stranded in Temuco and he was the only one who continued in soccer... He speaks Spanish better and better, he no longer needs a translator", "the cold, the difficulties with the language and the few opportunities left him alone very soon. Today, at 22 years old, he dreams of being recognized for his talent, although his team is in last place in the Primera B standings... plays on the right wing, his pass is worth $200,000 and he was the last victim of verbal violence on the Chilean fields")
the reason the third source is "associated" with the team he played for was because it was from the same city... like seriously? Young player with onoging career in Chilean pro soccer that will definielt get many more sources in his ongoing pro career as well. Thanks, Das osmnezz ( talk) 08:33, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Football, and Cameroon. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 09:20, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 12:34, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
- Keep per sources above which show notability. Giant Snowman 13:00, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
- Keep: The subject has received enough coverage to meet
WP:GNG.
As Das osmnezz points out, source #4 is not associated with the UdeC team, but rather an independent publication: Diario Concepción.JTtheOG ( talk) 01:33, 26 May 2024 (UTC)- @ JTtheOG that's not correct. The newspaper is fully owned by Universidad de Concepción, and the club is as well. No source in this article meets all criteria for notability: either they are not secondary, not independent, or don't show significant coverage. One single source from a university newspaper, even if it was independent (and it isn't!) is not enough to show notability. Broc ( talk) 12:44, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
- You are correct. That specific source is not independent. JTtheOG ( talk) 18:09, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
- Keep – Per all above. Svartner ( talk) 08:27, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete Fails GNG. Far too many quotes in those articles. Claiming racist abuse doesn't give sigcov. Dougal18 ( talk) 09:28, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
- I provided secondary coverage from each source above... If I'm not mistaken, most articles about people are a mix of quotes with secondary coverage... I never said "claiming racist abuse gives sigcov" and even the source about that provides seocndary coverage of him as well as background info and important context... Young player with onoging career in Chilean pro soccer that will definielt get many more sources in his ongoing pro career as well. Thanks, Das osmnezz ( talk) 21:19, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
- Keep—Sources clearly show WP:SIGCOV. Anwegmann ( talk) 21:51, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
- Just adding here my assessment of the sources used in the article; in my opinion none of them fulfill all the WP:GNG requirements. Broc ( talk) 12:50, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
Source assessment table:
| ||||
| Source | Independent? | Reliable? | Significant coverage? | Count source toward GNG? |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| https://chile.as.com/chile/2022/02/17/futbol/1645063190_412510.html |  interview
|
|
|
✘ No |
| https://redgol.cl/chile/Job-Bogmis-reclama-tras-ser-victima-de-racismo-en-duelo-de-U.-de-Conce-ante-Wanderers-en-Primera-B-20230427-0023.html |
|
|
specific racism episode
|
✘ No |
| https://www.emol.com/noticias/Deportes/2022/03/03/1048355/job-bogmis-camerun-futbol-udeconcepcion.html | interview
|
|
|
✘ No |
| https://www.diarioconcepcion.cl/deportes/2021/09/01/job-bogmis-marco-cuatro-goles-y-le-gusta-el-lila.html | not independent, publisher is the owner of the football club
|
|
|
✘ No |
| This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{ source assess table}}. | ||||
- This source "analysis" is infuriating and incorrect... its not like the so-called "interview" is like a mere Q and A... all the sources have secondary coverage ("In Cameroon he spent all day working on whatever he could to help his large family. They had nothing left over. The ball was just entertainment... he has the African presence in his game. Dizzying power and potency... Bogmis has always been a believer, but his faith became more intense during lockdown... he was a figure in the UdeC title in youth football", "Originally from Yaoundé, the capital of the African country... a loan, the difficulties of the climate and language, the desire to return to his country during the pandemic and endless obstacles he had to overcome before his sweet present, the one that has him as one of the figures to follow in the 'B' during this 2022", "The story of Job Bogmis is that of a fighter full of dreams. He arrived in 2019 with three young people from Cameroon. They were all promised heaven, but some were left stranded in Temuco and he was the only one who continued in soccer... He speaks Spanish better and better, he no longer needs a translator", "the cold, the difficulties with the language and the few opportunities left him alone very soon. Today, at 22 years old, he dreams of being recognized for his talent, although his team is in last place in the Primera B standings... plays on the right wing, his pass is worth $200,000 and he was the last victim of verbal violence on the Chilean fields")
Young player with onoging career in Chilean pro soccer that will definielt get many more sources in his ongoing pro career as well. Thanks, Das osmnezz ( talk) 03:25, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- @
Das osmnezz copy-pasting the same comment will not help discussion. The information that is not quoted in the interviews is probably still coming directly from the footballer. I don't think we can consider it a secondary source. If, as you say, he will get many more sources in his ongoing career, maybe this is a case of
WP:TOOSOON?
Broc (
talk)
11:28, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- Something being an interview does not mean it is not independent, that is a ridiculous thing to say. As such, on your own analysis, there would be multiple sources towards GNG. Giant Snowman 19:09, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Sufficient secondary sourcing has been shown to exist Star Mississippi 13:33, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
Job Bogmis
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Job Bogmis ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
None of the sources used contribute to notability: #1, #3 are interviews, #4 is not an independent source (associated with the team of the University he was playing for), #2 does not show significant coverage. I could not find other sources to fulfill WP:GNG. Broc ( talk) 07:41, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
This source "analysis" is infuriating and incorrect... all the sources have secondary coverage ("In Cameroon he spent all day working on whatever he could to help his large family. They had nothing left over. The ball was just entertainment... he has the African presence in his game. Dizzying power and potency... Bogmis has always been a believer, but his faith became more intense during lockdown... he was a figure in the UdeC title in youth football", "Originally from Yaoundé, the capital of the African country... a loan, the difficulties of the climate and language, the desire to return to his country during the pandemic and endless obstacles he had to overcome before his sweet present, the one that has him as one of the figures to follow in the 'B' during this 2022", "The story of Job Bogmis is that of a fighter full of dreams. He arrived in 2019 with three young people from Cameroon. They were all promised heaven, but some were left stranded in Temuco and he was the only one who continued in soccer... He speaks Spanish better and better, he no longer needs a translator", "the cold, the difficulties with the language and the few opportunities left him alone very soon. Today, at 22 years old, he dreams of being recognized for his talent, although his team is in last place in the Primera B standings... plays on the right wing, his pass is worth $200,000 and he was the last victim of verbal violence on the Chilean fields")
the reason the third source is "associated" with the team he played for was because it was from the same city... like seriously? Young player with onoging career in Chilean pro soccer that will definielt get many more sources in his ongoing pro career as well. Thanks, Das osmnezz ( talk) 08:33, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Football, and Cameroon. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 09:20, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 12:34, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
- Keep per sources above which show notability. Giant Snowman 13:00, 25 May 2024 (UTC)
- Keep: The subject has received enough coverage to meet
WP:GNG.
As Das osmnezz points out, source #4 is not associated with the UdeC team, but rather an independent publication: Diario Concepción.JTtheOG ( talk) 01:33, 26 May 2024 (UTC)- @ JTtheOG that's not correct. The newspaper is fully owned by Universidad de Concepción, and the club is as well. No source in this article meets all criteria for notability: either they are not secondary, not independent, or don't show significant coverage. One single source from a university newspaper, even if it was independent (and it isn't!) is not enough to show notability. Broc ( talk) 12:44, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
- You are correct. That specific source is not independent. JTtheOG ( talk) 18:09, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
- Keep – Per all above. Svartner ( talk) 08:27, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
- Delete Fails GNG. Far too many quotes in those articles. Claiming racist abuse doesn't give sigcov. Dougal18 ( talk) 09:28, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
- I provided secondary coverage from each source above... If I'm not mistaken, most articles about people are a mix of quotes with secondary coverage... I never said "claiming racist abuse gives sigcov" and even the source about that provides seocndary coverage of him as well as background info and important context... Young player with onoging career in Chilean pro soccer that will definielt get many more sources in his ongoing pro career as well. Thanks, Das osmnezz ( talk) 21:19, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
- Keep—Sources clearly show WP:SIGCOV. Anwegmann ( talk) 21:51, 28 May 2024 (UTC)
- Just adding here my assessment of the sources used in the article; in my opinion none of them fulfill all the WP:GNG requirements. Broc ( talk) 12:50, 29 May 2024 (UTC)
Source assessment table:
| ||||
| Source | Independent? | Reliable? | Significant coverage? | Count source toward GNG? |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| https://chile.as.com/chile/2022/02/17/futbol/1645063190_412510.html | interview
|
|
|
✘ No |
| https://redgol.cl/chile/Job-Bogmis-reclama-tras-ser-victima-de-racismo-en-duelo-de-U.-de-Conce-ante-Wanderers-en-Primera-B-20230427-0023.html |
|
|
specific racism episode
|
✘ No |
| https://www.emol.com/noticias/Deportes/2022/03/03/1048355/job-bogmis-camerun-futbol-udeconcepcion.html | interview
|
|
|
✘ No |
| https://www.diarioconcepcion.cl/deportes/2021/09/01/job-bogmis-marco-cuatro-goles-y-le-gusta-el-lila.html | not independent, publisher is the owner of the football club
|
|
|
✘ No |
| This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{ source assess table}}. | ||||
- This source "analysis" is infuriating and incorrect... its not like the so-called "interview" is like a mere Q and A... all the sources have secondary coverage ("In Cameroon he spent all day working on whatever he could to help his large family. They had nothing left over. The ball was just entertainment... he has the African presence in his game. Dizzying power and potency... Bogmis has always been a believer, but his faith became more intense during lockdown... he was a figure in the UdeC title in youth football", "Originally from Yaoundé, the capital of the African country... a loan, the difficulties of the climate and language, the desire to return to his country during the pandemic and endless obstacles he had to overcome before his sweet present, the one that has him as one of the figures to follow in the 'B' during this 2022", "The story of Job Bogmis is that of a fighter full of dreams. He arrived in 2019 with three young people from Cameroon. They were all promised heaven, but some were left stranded in Temuco and he was the only one who continued in soccer... He speaks Spanish better and better, he no longer needs a translator", "the cold, the difficulties with the language and the few opportunities left him alone very soon. Today, at 22 years old, he dreams of being recognized for his talent, although his team is in last place in the Primera B standings... plays on the right wing, his pass is worth $200,000 and he was the last victim of verbal violence on the Chilean fields")
Young player with onoging career in Chilean pro soccer that will definielt get many more sources in his ongoing pro career as well. Thanks, Das osmnezz ( talk) 03:25, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- @
Das osmnezz copy-pasting the same comment will not help discussion. The information that is not quoted in the interviews is probably still coming directly from the footballer. I don't think we can consider it a secondary source. If, as you say, he will get many more sources in his ongoing career, maybe this is a case of
WP:TOOSOON?
Broc (
talk)
11:28, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
- Something being an interview does not mean it is not independent, that is a ridiculous thing to say. As such, on your own analysis, there would be multiple sources towards GNG. Giant Snowman 19:09, 1 June 2024 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.