- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was redirect to Richard Milazzo. ✗ plicit 13:58, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Edgewise Press ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
My !vote is re-direct as I've already done once. Article is not sourced at all, and it is basically WP:ADMASQ and a quick check strongly suggests that this article fails to meet WP:NCORP, and WP:CORPDEPTH. I believe it was generous to consider WP:ATD and re-direct to Richard Milazzo, but that has been reverted by another editor, so now it is time to seek consensus on whether to delete vs re-direct. Graywalls ( talk) 08:14, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Poetry-related deletion discussions. Graywalls ( talk) 08:14, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Visual arts-related deletion discussions. Graywalls ( talk) 08:14, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. Graywalls ( talk) 08:14, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Companies-related deletion discussions. Graywalls ( talk) 08:14, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of France-related deletion discussions. Graywalls ( talk) 08:14, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions. Graywalls ( talk) 08:14, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Arts-related deletion discussions. Graywalls ( talk) 17:02, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
-
Edgewise Press (
|
talk |
history |
protect |
delete |
links |
watch |
logs |
views)
Lopifalko
Vexations
Justlettersandnumbers
Graywalls Opposed to Deletion. I am adding sources, for example Peter Carravetta, Language at the Boundaries: Philosophy, Literature, and the Poetics of Culture, Bloomberg Press to start. Why so hasty to eliminate? I prefer to improve the page, as I have just done. Edgewise books has an extensive list of international notables published there (now linked).
Valueyou (
talk)
08:57, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
- Comment Association with others that are themselves notable, doesn't count toward notability. - Lopifalko ( talk) 09:14, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
-
Lopifalko This is an art book publication house, so I would think it very much would be.
Valueyou (
talk)
09:19, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
- AfD is not based on what anyone thinks, but on what can be demonstrated, as per the requirements of
WP:GNG or
WP:NCORP. -
Lopifalko (
talk)
09:28, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
-
Lopifalko Yes, thank you, but does not the notability of those published by a press demonstrate that the press is itself notable, and that fact should be taken into consideration.
Valueyou (
talk)
09:49, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
- No. As I said above: "Association with others that are themselves notable, doesn't count toward notability". Please read
WP:INHERITORG. -
Lopifalko (
talk)
09:56, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
- Thank again. I read it and it concerns corporations. Irrelevant here. Edgewise Press is a small nonprofit art press with a record of notable authors attached to it.
Valueyou (
talk)
14:18, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
- Non-profits aren't exempt from N:CORP/N:ORG. Is there a conflict of interest here we should be aware of?
StarM
14:33, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
- By the way, I say I was generous to merge and re-direct instead, because the target of re-direct seems to be of borderline notability and
WP:ANYBIO is not as difficult to pass as NORG.
Graywalls (
talk)
14:39, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
-
Star Mississippi
Graywalls
Lopifalko
Vexations
Justlettersandnumbers Appreciate all generosity. The Notability (organizations and companies) page is confusing to me. The top of the N:CORP/N:ORG page states "The scope of this guideline covers all groups of people organized together for a purpose with the exception of non-profit educational institutions..." Edgewise Press is a non-profit educational institution. Len Fulton describes Edgewise Press as an “unfunded nonprofit” in the International Directory of Little Magazines & Small Presses Volume 37 2001, p. 155. Also, I think all would agree that
Ross Bleckner and
Peter Halley are exceptionally notable contemporary artists, and if they publish their writings with Edgewise Press, that should weigh on the Edgewise Press notability factor. Common sense to me.
Valueyou (
talk)
15:35, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
- Valueyou, I'm afraid that Wikipedia's use of the term "notability" is somewhat idiosyncratic and unhelpful. Use common sense is, unfortunately, not a core Wikipedia policy. What (most) participants in deletion discussions mean when they use that word is something entirely different than what you mean when you propose that Halley is a very important artist, his writing attracts significant critical attention by scholars and that the dissemination of those writings is in itself worthy of note. Here, at AfD, notable means that there exists a lot of (written) material that discusses the topic in-depth. I think of "notable" as short for: "Given that we cannot write what we know, but need to base everything on published sources, do we have sufficient material to write the article with?" If the answer to that is no, we reach consensus that the article cannot be sustained and ought to be deleted. Vexations ( talk) 22:13, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
-
Star Mississippi
Graywalls
Lopifalko
Vexations
Justlettersandnumbers Appreciate all generosity. The Notability (organizations and companies) page is confusing to me. The top of the N:CORP/N:ORG page states "The scope of this guideline covers all groups of people organized together for a purpose with the exception of non-profit educational institutions..." Edgewise Press is a non-profit educational institution. Len Fulton describes Edgewise Press as an “unfunded nonprofit” in the International Directory of Little Magazines & Small Presses Volume 37 2001, p. 155. Also, I think all would agree that
Ross Bleckner and
Peter Halley are exceptionally notable contemporary artists, and if they publish their writings with Edgewise Press, that should weigh on the Edgewise Press notability factor. Common sense to me.
Valueyou (
talk)
15:35, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
- By the way, I say I was generous to merge and re-direct instead, because the target of re-direct seems to be of borderline notability and
WP:ANYBIO is not as difficult to pass as NORG.
Graywalls (
talk)
14:39, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
- Non-profits aren't exempt from N:CORP/N:ORG. Is there a conflict of interest here we should be aware of?
StarM
14:33, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
- Thank again. I read it and it concerns corporations. Irrelevant here. Edgewise Press is a small nonprofit art press with a record of notable authors attached to it.
Valueyou (
talk)
14:18, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
- No. As I said above: "Association with others that are themselves notable, doesn't count toward notability". Please read
WP:INHERITORG. -
Lopifalko (
talk)
09:56, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
-
Lopifalko Yes, thank you, but does not the notability of those published by a press demonstrate that the press is itself notable, and that fact should be taken into consideration.
Valueyou (
talk)
09:49, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
- AfD is not based on what anyone thinks, but on what can be demonstrated, as per the requirements of
WP:GNG or
WP:NCORP. -
Lopifalko (
talk)
09:28, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
-
Edgewise Press (
|
talk |
history |
protect |
delete |
links |
watch |
logs |
views)
Lopifalko
Vexations
Justlettersandnumbers
Graywalls Opposed to Deletion. I am adding sources, for example Peter Carravetta, Language at the Boundaries: Philosophy, Literature, and the Poetics of Culture, Bloomberg Press to start. Why so hasty to eliminate? I prefer to improve the page, as I have just done. Edgewise books has an extensive list of international notables published there (now linked).
Valueyou (
talk)
08:57, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
that's your interpretation of it. What that means is something like an actual university. Not some silly little groups organized as a not-for-profit organization and decides to call itself educational oriented. You should have another look at
WP:INHERITORG. Wikipedia is not copywriting. Things like celebrity endorsement or the notability of the person writing/talking about it do not factor into notability.
Graywalls (
talk)
16:50, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
- Redirect to Richard Milazzo. There is simply not much to say here, in terms of the sources.--- Possibly ( talk) 05:51, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
- Redirect to Richard Milazzo. Worldcat listings are far from perfect, but seem to indicate that this "press" published about thirty-two "books" (many of them seem actually to be exhibition catalogues), of which eleven were written by or associated with Milazzo (for perspective, a comparable search for a major academic press gets over six million results). According to this page, Milazzo was the editor of the press. It does not come close to satisfying WP:NCORP. Star Mississippi, to me this appeared to be part of a dedicated long-term campaign to promote Milazzo and matters surrounding him, but Valueyou has denied any connection. Justlettersandnumbers ( talk) 19:09, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
- Redirect to Richard Milazzo, this seems like a straitforward solution, since the Milazzo article already contains a section on Edgewise Press. Netherzone ( talk) 20:08, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
- Redirect to
Richard Milazzo I moved the art educational information there and undid revision 1021998731 by
Graywalls to reinstate list of nonprofit art educational books - not a product catalog - btw - i object to
Graywalls ghosting and reversing almost my every edit since i made a mild critique of the erase mania practiced by
Graywalls. i am here to add value within my field of expertise.
Graywalls likes to "write stuff and I erase stuff on Wikipedia" but mostly erase stuff and make groundless accusations of coincidence.
Valueyou (
talk)
08:41, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
- Redirect is what I did in the first place even though you reverted it only to vote "redirect" again. It was your reversion that made it necessary to start this consensus building discussion. Graywalls ( talk) 00:47, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
- Redirect to Richard Milazzo I do not see any of the independent and substantial in-depth coverage of the press itself that would either justify having an article or enable us to write it. - Lopifalko ( talk) 13:33, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was redirect to Richard Milazzo. ✗ plicit 13:58, 13 May 2021 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Edgewise Press ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
My !vote is re-direct as I've already done once. Article is not sourced at all, and it is basically WP:ADMASQ and a quick check strongly suggests that this article fails to meet WP:NCORP, and WP:CORPDEPTH. I believe it was generous to consider WP:ATD and re-direct to Richard Milazzo, but that has been reverted by another editor, so now it is time to seek consensus on whether to delete vs re-direct. Graywalls ( talk) 08:14, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Poetry-related deletion discussions. Graywalls ( talk) 08:14, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Visual arts-related deletion discussions. Graywalls ( talk) 08:14, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. Graywalls ( talk) 08:14, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Companies-related deletion discussions. Graywalls ( talk) 08:14, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of France-related deletion discussions. Graywalls ( talk) 08:14, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of New York-related deletion discussions. Graywalls ( talk) 08:14, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Arts-related deletion discussions. Graywalls ( talk) 17:02, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
-
Edgewise Press (
|
talk |
history |
protect |
delete |
links |
watch |
logs |
views)
Lopifalko
Vexations
Justlettersandnumbers
Graywalls Opposed to Deletion. I am adding sources, for example Peter Carravetta, Language at the Boundaries: Philosophy, Literature, and the Poetics of Culture, Bloomberg Press to start. Why so hasty to eliminate? I prefer to improve the page, as I have just done. Edgewise books has an extensive list of international notables published there (now linked).
Valueyou (
talk)
08:57, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
- Comment Association with others that are themselves notable, doesn't count toward notability. - Lopifalko ( talk) 09:14, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
-
Lopifalko This is an art book publication house, so I would think it very much would be.
Valueyou (
talk)
09:19, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
- AfD is not based on what anyone thinks, but on what can be demonstrated, as per the requirements of
WP:GNG or
WP:NCORP. -
Lopifalko (
talk)
09:28, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
-
Lopifalko Yes, thank you, but does not the notability of those published by a press demonstrate that the press is itself notable, and that fact should be taken into consideration.
Valueyou (
talk)
09:49, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
- No. As I said above: "Association with others that are themselves notable, doesn't count toward notability". Please read
WP:INHERITORG. -
Lopifalko (
talk)
09:56, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
- Thank again. I read it and it concerns corporations. Irrelevant here. Edgewise Press is a small nonprofit art press with a record of notable authors attached to it.
Valueyou (
talk)
14:18, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
- Non-profits aren't exempt from N:CORP/N:ORG. Is there a conflict of interest here we should be aware of?
StarM
14:33, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
- By the way, I say I was generous to merge and re-direct instead, because the target of re-direct seems to be of borderline notability and
WP:ANYBIO is not as difficult to pass as NORG.
Graywalls (
talk)
14:39, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
-
Star Mississippi
Graywalls
Lopifalko
Vexations
Justlettersandnumbers Appreciate all generosity. The Notability (organizations and companies) page is confusing to me. The top of the N:CORP/N:ORG page states "The scope of this guideline covers all groups of people organized together for a purpose with the exception of non-profit educational institutions..." Edgewise Press is a non-profit educational institution. Len Fulton describes Edgewise Press as an “unfunded nonprofit” in the International Directory of Little Magazines & Small Presses Volume 37 2001, p. 155. Also, I think all would agree that
Ross Bleckner and
Peter Halley are exceptionally notable contemporary artists, and if they publish their writings with Edgewise Press, that should weigh on the Edgewise Press notability factor. Common sense to me.
Valueyou (
talk)
15:35, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
- Valueyou, I'm afraid that Wikipedia's use of the term "notability" is somewhat idiosyncratic and unhelpful. Use common sense is, unfortunately, not a core Wikipedia policy. What (most) participants in deletion discussions mean when they use that word is something entirely different than what you mean when you propose that Halley is a very important artist, his writing attracts significant critical attention by scholars and that the dissemination of those writings is in itself worthy of note. Here, at AfD, notable means that there exists a lot of (written) material that discusses the topic in-depth. I think of "notable" as short for: "Given that we cannot write what we know, but need to base everything on published sources, do we have sufficient material to write the article with?" If the answer to that is no, we reach consensus that the article cannot be sustained and ought to be deleted. Vexations ( talk) 22:13, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
-
Star Mississippi
Graywalls
Lopifalko
Vexations
Justlettersandnumbers Appreciate all generosity. The Notability (organizations and companies) page is confusing to me. The top of the N:CORP/N:ORG page states "The scope of this guideline covers all groups of people organized together for a purpose with the exception of non-profit educational institutions..." Edgewise Press is a non-profit educational institution. Len Fulton describes Edgewise Press as an “unfunded nonprofit” in the International Directory of Little Magazines & Small Presses Volume 37 2001, p. 155. Also, I think all would agree that
Ross Bleckner and
Peter Halley are exceptionally notable contemporary artists, and if they publish their writings with Edgewise Press, that should weigh on the Edgewise Press notability factor. Common sense to me.
Valueyou (
talk)
15:35, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
- By the way, I say I was generous to merge and re-direct instead, because the target of re-direct seems to be of borderline notability and
WP:ANYBIO is not as difficult to pass as NORG.
Graywalls (
talk)
14:39, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
- Non-profits aren't exempt from N:CORP/N:ORG. Is there a conflict of interest here we should be aware of?
StarM
14:33, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
- Thank again. I read it and it concerns corporations. Irrelevant here. Edgewise Press is a small nonprofit art press with a record of notable authors attached to it.
Valueyou (
talk)
14:18, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
- No. As I said above: "Association with others that are themselves notable, doesn't count toward notability". Please read
WP:INHERITORG. -
Lopifalko (
talk)
09:56, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
-
Lopifalko Yes, thank you, but does not the notability of those published by a press demonstrate that the press is itself notable, and that fact should be taken into consideration.
Valueyou (
talk)
09:49, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
- AfD is not based on what anyone thinks, but on what can be demonstrated, as per the requirements of
WP:GNG or
WP:NCORP. -
Lopifalko (
talk)
09:28, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
-
Edgewise Press (
|
talk |
history |
protect |
delete |
links |
watch |
logs |
views)
Lopifalko
Vexations
Justlettersandnumbers
Graywalls Opposed to Deletion. I am adding sources, for example Peter Carravetta, Language at the Boundaries: Philosophy, Literature, and the Poetics of Culture, Bloomberg Press to start. Why so hasty to eliminate? I prefer to improve the page, as I have just done. Edgewise books has an extensive list of international notables published there (now linked).
Valueyou (
talk)
08:57, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
that's your interpretation of it. What that means is something like an actual university. Not some silly little groups organized as a not-for-profit organization and decides to call itself educational oriented. You should have another look at
WP:INHERITORG. Wikipedia is not copywriting. Things like celebrity endorsement or the notability of the person writing/talking about it do not factor into notability.
Graywalls (
talk)
16:50, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
- Redirect to Richard Milazzo. There is simply not much to say here, in terms of the sources.--- Possibly ( talk) 05:51, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
- Redirect to Richard Milazzo. Worldcat listings are far from perfect, but seem to indicate that this "press" published about thirty-two "books" (many of them seem actually to be exhibition catalogues), of which eleven were written by or associated with Milazzo (for perspective, a comparable search for a major academic press gets over six million results). According to this page, Milazzo was the editor of the press. It does not come close to satisfying WP:NCORP. Star Mississippi, to me this appeared to be part of a dedicated long-term campaign to promote Milazzo and matters surrounding him, but Valueyou has denied any connection. Justlettersandnumbers ( talk) 19:09, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
- Redirect to Richard Milazzo, this seems like a straitforward solution, since the Milazzo article already contains a section on Edgewise Press. Netherzone ( talk) 20:08, 7 May 2021 (UTC)
- Redirect to
Richard Milazzo I moved the art educational information there and undid revision 1021998731 by
Graywalls to reinstate list of nonprofit art educational books - not a product catalog - btw - i object to
Graywalls ghosting and reversing almost my every edit since i made a mild critique of the erase mania practiced by
Graywalls. i am here to add value within my field of expertise.
Graywalls likes to "write stuff and I erase stuff on Wikipedia" but mostly erase stuff and make groundless accusations of coincidence.
Valueyou (
talk)
08:41, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
- Redirect is what I did in the first place even though you reverted it only to vote "redirect" again. It was your reversion that made it necessary to start this consensus building discussion. Graywalls ( talk) 00:47, 10 May 2021 (UTC)
- Redirect to Richard Milazzo I do not see any of the independent and substantial in-depth coverage of the press itself that would either justify having an article or enable us to write it. - Lopifalko ( talk) 13:33, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.