- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was Draftify. I concur with Spartaz's reverted closure. UtherSRG (talk) 16:07, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Anthony Vaz ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Anthony Vaz
This stub biography of a sportsperson, by Lugnuts, has only one reference, which is a database entry. It therefore does not satisfy Olympic notability or sports notability as they are in 2023.
- Draftify to Draft:Anthony Vaz (field hockey), as nominator. Robert McClenon ( talk) 05:17, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Olympics, and Kenya. Robert McClenon ( talk) 05:17, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 04:51, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
- Draftify, fails WP:SPORTSCRIT #5. Would support applying the WP:LUGSTUBS criteria for its restoration to mainspace. BilledMammal ( talk) 15:32, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
- Comment -@
Robert McClenon - @
Lancepark and @
Zyxw were also involved in the editing of this article. Is there a reason why
Lugnuts was singled out here considering that he does not
WP:OWN the article?
KatoKungLee (
talk)
16:54, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
- Lancepark's edits, Zyxw's edit. They both appear to have been WP:GNOMING. BilledMammal ( talk) 17:09, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
- Reply to User:KatoKungLee - I use Twinkle, and it notifies the originator of the article. It doesn't give me the choice of also notifying the gnomes. I know that I could notify them manually, and I saw that they had been gnomes. Robert McClenon ( talk) 18:19, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
- Keep - I was able to find him 7 mentions of him. #6 is a bio on him.
1,
2,
3,
4,
5,
6 and
7. Pinging
BeanieFan11 to see if he has any other sources on him. Considering he was a 3-time Olympian, a flag bearer at the 1956 Olympics for Kenya, from 1950's Kenya where we have few to no resources and considering this was
Kenya's first year active at the Olympics, I do think more sources are out there.
KatoKungLee (
talk)
17:32, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
- None of those contains
WP:SIGCOV. Even the article that you describe as
a bio on him
contains no independent coverage beyondAnthony Vaz is a dark, handsome lad of 27 who comes from Kenya, an English province in East Africa, some thousands of miles away from Rome.
BilledMammal ( talk) 17:45, 21 August 2023 (UTC)- They also talked about his background in the article. I don't think you need me to quote it. KatoKungLee ( talk) 17:56, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
- None of those contains
WP:SIGCOV. Even the article that you describe as
- You know, this is the reason I dislike so much the current notability guidelines relating to athletes. We've got here someone who was clearly a star of their time and one of the best athletes in their country, given that he was selected as the country's
Olympic captain and was their
flag
bearer in their inaugural appearance. There are no available Kenyan newspapers from the time to help locate sources - none -
our list gives a paywalled one from a different time period and one that doesn't work. The
British Newspaper Archive
has an article from Pakistan that actually looks like it'd be potential SIGCOV ("Pensketches of Kenyan Hockey: ... ANTHONY VAZ: (30): Rightfull-back. Played for Kenya in 1956 Olympic Games and since that date played representative").
This inaccessible source mentions him several times, as does
this and several others on Google Books. This would be a massive shame to delete in my opinion.
BeanieFan11 (
talk)
18:07, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
-
User:BeanieFan11 - I think that I agree with you about the guidelines, and that is why I ask to have these athletes draftified. I find and nominate stubs for deletion if they have the same name as a newly submitted draft, and do not appear to satisfy the current guidelines. If they do satisfy the current guidelines, I disambiguate the draft.
Robert McClenon (
talk)
18:17, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
- @ Robert McClenon: I see, its just that draftifying old athletic articles today basically puts them in a graveyard, as almost no one sees them, let alone improves them, and in 99%+ of the cases they get deleted. I could probably perform a decent expansion of this in a few days if you seeing it improved helps. BeanieFan11 ( talk) 18:24, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
- Comment to User:BeanieFan11 - Well, getting the article to satisfy general notability would satisfy the Heymann criterion if done within 5 days, and if done within 6 months would get the draft accepted. I know that most of these drafts are ignored, but draftification at least gives an editor who participates in the AFD and wants to restore the article six months rather than seven days. Robert McClenon ( talk) 21:20, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
-
User:BeanieFan11 - I think that I agree with you about the guidelines, and that is why I ask to have these athletes draftified. I find and nominate stubs for deletion if they have the same name as a newly submitted draft, and do not appear to satisfy the current guidelines. If they do satisfy the current guidelines, I disambiguate the draft.
Robert McClenon (
talk)
18:17, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting to see if there is more support for Keeping or Draftifying.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 04:36, 26 August 2023 (UTC)Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Seraphimblade Talk to me 03:36, 3 September 2023 (UTC)- Note I closed this without seeing Seraphimblade's relist. I have therefore undone my actions. Spartaz Humbug! 03:52, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
- Draftify per above. Aintabli ( talk) 04:15, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was Draftify. I concur with Spartaz's reverted closure. UtherSRG (talk) 16:07, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Anthony Vaz ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Anthony Vaz
This stub biography of a sportsperson, by Lugnuts, has only one reference, which is a database entry. It therefore does not satisfy Olympic notability or sports notability as they are in 2023.
- Draftify to Draft:Anthony Vaz (field hockey), as nominator. Robert McClenon ( talk) 05:17, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Olympics, and Kenya. Robert McClenon ( talk) 05:17, 12 August 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 04:51, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
- Draftify, fails WP:SPORTSCRIT #5. Would support applying the WP:LUGSTUBS criteria for its restoration to mainspace. BilledMammal ( talk) 15:32, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
- Comment -@
Robert McClenon - @
Lancepark and @
Zyxw were also involved in the editing of this article. Is there a reason why
Lugnuts was singled out here considering that he does not
WP:OWN the article?
KatoKungLee (
talk)
16:54, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
- Lancepark's edits, Zyxw's edit. They both appear to have been WP:GNOMING. BilledMammal ( talk) 17:09, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
- Reply to User:KatoKungLee - I use Twinkle, and it notifies the originator of the article. It doesn't give me the choice of also notifying the gnomes. I know that I could notify them manually, and I saw that they had been gnomes. Robert McClenon ( talk) 18:19, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
- Keep - I was able to find him 7 mentions of him. #6 is a bio on him.
1,
2,
3,
4,
5,
6 and
7. Pinging
BeanieFan11 to see if he has any other sources on him. Considering he was a 3-time Olympian, a flag bearer at the 1956 Olympics for Kenya, from 1950's Kenya where we have few to no resources and considering this was
Kenya's first year active at the Olympics, I do think more sources are out there.
KatoKungLee (
talk)
17:32, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
- None of those contains
WP:SIGCOV. Even the article that you describe as
a bio on him
contains no independent coverage beyondAnthony Vaz is a dark, handsome lad of 27 who comes from Kenya, an English province in East Africa, some thousands of miles away from Rome.
BilledMammal ( talk) 17:45, 21 August 2023 (UTC)- They also talked about his background in the article. I don't think you need me to quote it. KatoKungLee ( talk) 17:56, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
- None of those contains
WP:SIGCOV. Even the article that you describe as
- You know, this is the reason I dislike so much the current notability guidelines relating to athletes. We've got here someone who was clearly a star of their time and one of the best athletes in their country, given that he was selected as the country's
Olympic captain and was their
flag
bearer in their inaugural appearance. There are no available Kenyan newspapers from the time to help locate sources - none -
our list gives a paywalled one from a different time period and one that doesn't work. The
British Newspaper Archive
has an article from Pakistan that actually looks like it'd be potential SIGCOV ("Pensketches of Kenyan Hockey: ... ANTHONY VAZ: (30): Rightfull-back. Played for Kenya in 1956 Olympic Games and since that date played representative").
This inaccessible source mentions him several times, as does
this and several others on Google Books. This would be a massive shame to delete in my opinion.
BeanieFan11 (
talk)
18:07, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
-
User:BeanieFan11 - I think that I agree with you about the guidelines, and that is why I ask to have these athletes draftified. I find and nominate stubs for deletion if they have the same name as a newly submitted draft, and do not appear to satisfy the current guidelines. If they do satisfy the current guidelines, I disambiguate the draft.
Robert McClenon (
talk)
18:17, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
- @ Robert McClenon: I see, its just that draftifying old athletic articles today basically puts them in a graveyard, as almost no one sees them, let alone improves them, and in 99%+ of the cases they get deleted. I could probably perform a decent expansion of this in a few days if you seeing it improved helps. BeanieFan11 ( talk) 18:24, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
- Comment to User:BeanieFan11 - Well, getting the article to satisfy general notability would satisfy the Heymann criterion if done within 5 days, and if done within 6 months would get the draft accepted. I know that most of these drafts are ignored, but draftification at least gives an editor who participates in the AFD and wants to restore the article six months rather than seven days. Robert McClenon ( talk) 21:20, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
-
User:BeanieFan11 - I think that I agree with you about the guidelines, and that is why I ask to have these athletes draftified. I find and nominate stubs for deletion if they have the same name as a newly submitted draft, and do not appear to satisfy the current guidelines. If they do satisfy the current guidelines, I disambiguate the draft.
Robert McClenon (
talk)
18:17, 21 August 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting to see if there is more support for Keeping or Draftifying.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 04:36, 26 August 2023 (UTC)Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Seraphimblade Talk to me 03:36, 3 September 2023 (UTC)- Note I closed this without seeing Seraphimblade's relist. I have therefore undone my actions. Spartaz Humbug! 03:52, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
- Draftify per above. Aintabli ( talk) 04:15, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.