- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Consensus is that the article meets the notability guideline. Davewild ( talk) 08:51, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
Anshei Sfard (Louisville, Kentucky)
- Anshei Sfard (Louisville, Kentucky) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Article lacks multiple, independent, reliable sources. It fails WP:ORG and WP:GNG. TM 15:55, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
- Keep. The notablity of this 120+ year old congregation, the only Orthodox congregation left in Kentucky, is established by the sources already present in the article. It is not a benefit to Wikipedia to engage in the erasure of content about significant and historic American Jewish institutions. -- Arxiloxos ( talk) 16:23, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
- Delete Does not appear to satisfy WP:N or more specifically WP:ORG. Being "the only" something in a state or "120 years old" are not sufficient. There is no shortcut to notability for any particular religious faith. Edison ( talk) 17:07, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
WeakKeepand Improve. Being the only orthodox synagogue in the state, especially given its age, makes it notable enough. Of course, the article needs to back that up with a specific inline citation. Stevie is the man! Talk • Work 17:25, 11 July 2014 (UTC)- Note: When I say "specific", I mean that we need to know on what pages (and other appropriate related details) of the referenced encyclopedia does one find the information. It also would be good to have a much more recent source to add as a second reference. Finally, these refs need to be inline citations next to the initial claim in the lead. Stevie is the man! Talk • Work 17:43, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
- Comment I dispute your claim that being "the only" something in some geographic region, or that merely being modestly "old" (a hundred and something years) grants inherent notability. Please cite the policy or guideline. Otherwise the administrator closing this AFD should disregard that Keep argument and any similar ones as being mere "ILIKEIT" arguments.
Edison (
talk)
03:40, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
- First of all, I don't find this comment to be constructive. Secondly, I think I made it clear (given all that I say past the first sentence) that this aspect, if backed up well by secondary sources, is what assures notability, not the naked fact. My full statement next to my vote corresponds to the notability guideline. Stevie is the man! Talk • Work 12:43, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
- Agreed @ Stevietheman: because this article (and similar ones) are about congregations, not just the buildings in which they worship. Also, on WP there are general consensuses relating to deletion that aren't formally codified in the deletion guidelines; for example, there is apparently some long-standing consensus that every single high school on the planet is notable, regardless of age, size of student body, availability of reliable secondary sources, etc. Along those lines, there appears to be a general consensus that significant age does impart at least some degree of notability to a synagogue, despite what the subjective importance essay says. IZAK ( talk) 06:52, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Kentucky-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 01:55, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 01:56, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Judaism-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 01:56, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
- Keep per WP:GNG. I expanded the content with reliable sources and formatted the unclear refs. Yoninah ( talk) 01:20, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
- Keep, because this is WP:N and the article has many WP:V & WP:RS to prove it. Thank you, IZAK ( talk) 03:45, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
- NOTE: Nominator, User Namiba ( talk · contribs) aka "TM", seems to have started an arbitrary process of eliminating articles about Orthodox Judaism synagogues from Category:Orthodox synagogues in the United States, he is requested to stop this process of mass nominations for deletions without further discussions and requests for improvement of the articles. So far he has nominated for deletion these articles: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Congregation Tiferes Yisroel (2nd nomination) & Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Congregation Arugas Habosem & Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Beth HaMedrosh Hagodol-Beth Joseph & Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Congregation Beth Israel (Malden, Massachusetts) that looks like its heading for mass deletions in this area. The nominator is requested to consider WP:DONOTDEMOLISH and WP:CHANCE and to please start a discussion or a WP:RFC if he feels such articles are not up to snuff at a venue of his choosing, or at WP:TALKJUDAISM that would make the most sense. Quite frankly this is not the best time to start a move to delete any synagogue articles given that the current Israel-Gaza conflict is now so hot that it is spilling over into attacks on synagogues in France, see Protesters scuffle with police at Paris synagogues (AP, July 13, 2014), and the problem is growing, so it behooves any editor undertaking such deletions to proceed with great care in order to avoid any semblance of impropriety until the temperature surrounding the role and place of synagogues as current flashpoints of conflict stops. Thank you, IZAK ( talk) 03:45, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
- Request for Comment: An RfC that concerns this AfD has been opened. Please see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Judaism#RfC: Should there be mass AfDs of articles about Orthodox synagogues?. Thank you, IZAK ( talk) 04:28, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
- Community input has been requested, see Wikipedia:Village pump (miscellaneous)#Trying to avoid WP:WAR over spate of AfDs and PRODs. Thank you, IZAK ( talk) 06:21, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
- Keep—Sources added since the nomination demonstrate notability. Lesser Cartographies ( talk) 11:22, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
- Strong Keep: The only orthodox congregation in the 28th most populous city in the United States? Obviously notable – if there isn't a guideline that makes this clear, there should be. Being around for 120 years, half the history of the country, also seems notable on its face. How many other institutions can make this claim? Additionally, and unsurprisingly, sources have now been found. (edited) —[ AlanM1( talk)]— 17:44, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
- Keep Midwestern US city synagogue with a history of over 120 years. This is not common, and is enough distinction to justify an article. (I am not certain of the general question of whether they all are.) DGG ( talk ) 20:29, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
- Keep Credible claim of notability backed up by ample reliable and verifiable sources. Alansohn ( talk) 03:00, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Consensus is that the article meets the notability guideline. Davewild ( talk) 08:51, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
Anshei Sfard (Louisville, Kentucky)
- Anshei Sfard (Louisville, Kentucky) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Article lacks multiple, independent, reliable sources. It fails WP:ORG and WP:GNG. TM 15:55, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
- Keep. The notablity of this 120+ year old congregation, the only Orthodox congregation left in Kentucky, is established by the sources already present in the article. It is not a benefit to Wikipedia to engage in the erasure of content about significant and historic American Jewish institutions. -- Arxiloxos ( talk) 16:23, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
- Delete Does not appear to satisfy WP:N or more specifically WP:ORG. Being "the only" something in a state or "120 years old" are not sufficient. There is no shortcut to notability for any particular religious faith. Edison ( talk) 17:07, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
WeakKeepand Improve. Being the only orthodox synagogue in the state, especially given its age, makes it notable enough. Of course, the article needs to back that up with a specific inline citation. Stevie is the man! Talk • Work 17:25, 11 July 2014 (UTC)- Note: When I say "specific", I mean that we need to know on what pages (and other appropriate related details) of the referenced encyclopedia does one find the information. It also would be good to have a much more recent source to add as a second reference. Finally, these refs need to be inline citations next to the initial claim in the lead. Stevie is the man! Talk • Work 17:43, 11 July 2014 (UTC)
- Comment I dispute your claim that being "the only" something in some geographic region, or that merely being modestly "old" (a hundred and something years) grants inherent notability. Please cite the policy or guideline. Otherwise the administrator closing this AFD should disregard that Keep argument and any similar ones as being mere "ILIKEIT" arguments.
Edison (
talk)
03:40, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
- First of all, I don't find this comment to be constructive. Secondly, I think I made it clear (given all that I say past the first sentence) that this aspect, if backed up well by secondary sources, is what assures notability, not the naked fact. My full statement next to my vote corresponds to the notability guideline. Stevie is the man! Talk • Work 12:43, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
- Agreed @ Stevietheman: because this article (and similar ones) are about congregations, not just the buildings in which they worship. Also, on WP there are general consensuses relating to deletion that aren't formally codified in the deletion guidelines; for example, there is apparently some long-standing consensus that every single high school on the planet is notable, regardless of age, size of student body, availability of reliable secondary sources, etc. Along those lines, there appears to be a general consensus that significant age does impart at least some degree of notability to a synagogue, despite what the subjective importance essay says. IZAK ( talk) 06:52, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Kentucky-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 01:55, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 01:56, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Judaism-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k ( talk) 01:56, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
- Keep per WP:GNG. I expanded the content with reliable sources and formatted the unclear refs. Yoninah ( talk) 01:20, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
- Keep, because this is WP:N and the article has many WP:V & WP:RS to prove it. Thank you, IZAK ( talk) 03:45, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
- NOTE: Nominator, User Namiba ( talk · contribs) aka "TM", seems to have started an arbitrary process of eliminating articles about Orthodox Judaism synagogues from Category:Orthodox synagogues in the United States, he is requested to stop this process of mass nominations for deletions without further discussions and requests for improvement of the articles. So far he has nominated for deletion these articles: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Congregation Tiferes Yisroel (2nd nomination) & Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Congregation Arugas Habosem & Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Beth HaMedrosh Hagodol-Beth Joseph & Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Congregation Beth Israel (Malden, Massachusetts) that looks like its heading for mass deletions in this area. The nominator is requested to consider WP:DONOTDEMOLISH and WP:CHANCE and to please start a discussion or a WP:RFC if he feels such articles are not up to snuff at a venue of his choosing, or at WP:TALKJUDAISM that would make the most sense. Quite frankly this is not the best time to start a move to delete any synagogue articles given that the current Israel-Gaza conflict is now so hot that it is spilling over into attacks on synagogues in France, see Protesters scuffle with police at Paris synagogues (AP, July 13, 2014), and the problem is growing, so it behooves any editor undertaking such deletions to proceed with great care in order to avoid any semblance of impropriety until the temperature surrounding the role and place of synagogues as current flashpoints of conflict stops. Thank you, IZAK ( talk) 03:45, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
- Request for Comment: An RfC that concerns this AfD has been opened. Please see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Judaism#RfC: Should there be mass AfDs of articles about Orthodox synagogues?. Thank you, IZAK ( talk) 04:28, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
- Community input has been requested, see Wikipedia:Village pump (miscellaneous)#Trying to avoid WP:WAR over spate of AfDs and PRODs. Thank you, IZAK ( talk) 06:21, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
- Keep—Sources added since the nomination demonstrate notability. Lesser Cartographies ( talk) 11:22, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
- Strong Keep: The only orthodox congregation in the 28th most populous city in the United States? Obviously notable – if there isn't a guideline that makes this clear, there should be. Being around for 120 years, half the history of the country, also seems notable on its face. How many other institutions can make this claim? Additionally, and unsurprisingly, sources have now been found. (edited) —[ AlanM1( talk)]— 17:44, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
- Keep Midwestern US city synagogue with a history of over 120 years. This is not common, and is enough distinction to justify an article. (I am not certain of the general question of whether they all are.) DGG ( talk ) 20:29, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
- Keep Credible claim of notability backed up by ample reliable and verifiable sources. Alansohn ( talk) 03:00, 15 July 2014 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.