- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. Clearly No consensus between those who believe WP:SIGCOV is now met through new sources and those editors who don't. I don't think relisting this discussion would resolve this difference of opinion on this article. Liz Read! Talk! 04:19, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
Alice Di Micele
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- Alice Di Micele ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Article is unsourced and I couldn't find any coverage. Article was under PROD which was removed then readded by User:Anachronist who claims to have found sources and may have an argument for WP:DRAFTIFY. I didn't see any coverage so I'm personally leaning toward delete, but I'd like to hear them out first. Also pinging User:UtherSRG who initiated the PROD. QuietHere ( talk) 04:06, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians, New Jersey, and Oregon. QuietHere ( talk) 04:06, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
- And a note for anyone searching that there are more results to be found under "Alice DiMicele" spelling. Page was recently moved from that spelling to the current one without discussion which I suspect might've been the wrong move just based on sheer number of results on Google and the Wayback Machine.
QuietHere (
talk)
04:13, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
- According to her own website, the spelling is "Di Micele" (with space), but the Internet often removes the space, leading to both versions being visible in search results. ---
DOOMSDAYER520 (
TALK|
CONTRIBS)
14:15, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
- my name on drivers license is spelled Di Micele for the record. I had know idea what a huge pain it would be for me... I might have used a stage name had I know this 35 years ago... but here we are and I'm still doing my thing. Alicedimicele ( talk) 22:36, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
- According to her own website, the spelling is "Di Micele" (with space), but the Internet often removes the space, leading to both versions being visible in search results. ---
DOOMSDAYER520 (
TALK|
CONTRIBS)
14:15, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
- Soft delete or draftify - I originally removed the prod and created this AFD page, which I subsequently deleted after I actually did find sources, and then I reverted my edit that had replaced the prod with the AFD tag in the article, which had the effect of restoring the prod.
Plenty of newspaper sources here: https://www.google.com/search?&q=%22Alice+Di+Micele%22&tbs=bkt:s&tbm=bks - although many of them are just announcements with a smattering of pieces giving significant coverage. Therefore, while I think the article is abysmal and qualifies for speedy deletion in its current state because it makes no credible assertion of significance, cites no independent sources, and fails to demonstrate any inclusion criterion in WP:MUSICBIO, I am no longer convinced that the subject isn't notable because independent coverage does exist. I wouldn't object to draftification. ~ Anachronist ( talk) 05:06, 8 October 2022 (UTC)- That list did provide this piece which is solid coverage, but that's it. There was one festival review where she got one sentence of praise, but otherwise it's all concert announcements without any prose about the subject. I'm still leaning on delete; not much point in draftifying without knowing there's enough coverage to actually save the article 'cause it won't pass notability in draft reviews. QuietHere ( talk) 09:01, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 07:32, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
- Delete - She's been around for a long time and seems to get a lot of gigs, because newspaper announcements of her local appearances are pretty prevalent. However, I can find very little substantial coverage of her career of the type that can build an encyclopedic article. She gets some minor coverage like this album review: [1], and this biographical intro: [2]. Unfortunately I can't find anything truly reliable and significant. --- DOOMSDAYER520 ( TALK| CONTRIBS) 14:24, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
- Comment - I PROD'd, because it was tagged as Speedy, but I couldn't justify under the CSD guidelines. I'm surprised this article has lasted for so many years without a deletion discussion. I'm leaning towards delete, though draftify would be a good option. I'm also the user who moved it to its current placement, based off of the edits on the topic's name and the edit comments about that (which cite the artist's own website). - UtherSRG (talk) 15:39, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
- Delete. The overall lack of coverage, relatively obscure starting point and external references build a decent-enough case as things currently stand, but what really stands out to me is the lack of any holistic significance that would be beneficial in an encyclopedic format. Regardless of whether garnering attention plays into any of the already-noted sources, the sheer fact that most pieces are mere announcements of the subject's existence - nothing more, nothing less, and certainly nothing of use apart from compiling a loose list of appearances - justify the negligibility of the page's creation in the first place. Without any significant value as a page, there's no legitiamte reason I can find to justify its existence, either in the past or in the future. ^^ Anyone else? TheMysteriousShadeheart ( talk) 19:18, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
- Comment - Alice herself attempted to edit the article. I reversed that I put her onto the
WP:COI policy. She's left information on
her own talk that may be of help in determining significance or notability. -
UtherSRG
(talk)
19:19, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
- If there was coverage discussing all those things then it would be a lot easier to be convinced, but I don't think we can take any artist at their word alone for notability because we'd still have an unsourced article just full of even more unsourced claims directly from the artist (which I assume would still be a COI violation).
QuietHere (
talk)
04:35, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
- As for being relevant to a city, here's the Best of Ashland, Oregon where I was chosen in 2020 as favorite singer/musician: https://www.sneakpre.com/ashland-business-grapevine/item/the-best-of-ashland-part-2 I also won first place several times in the 90's and have had mention in many recent years as well.
- For music charts relevant to my kind of music: The Folk Alliance International Folk Chart for March 2022: https://acousticmusicscene.com/2022/04/12/fai-folk-radio-charts-march-2022/
- and April: https://acousticmusicscene.com/2022/05/10/fai-folk-radio-charts-april-2022/
- Here's one with my 2018 Release One With the Tide: https://www.folkradio.org/chart/january-2018/
- Here's the Roots Music Report in 2015 which shows my album Swim and songs from it. https://www.rootsmusicreport.com/charts/view/song/genre/folk/weekly/2015-04-14/2015-04-14
- Here two songs from the 2015 album were still charting in 2021: https://www.rootsmusicreport.com/charts/view/song/sub_genre/alternative-folk/weekly/2021-08-07/2021-08-07
- Here's one from 2007: https://www.rootsmusicreport.com/charts/view/song/sub_genre/alternative-folk/weekly/2021-08-07/2021-08-07
- I know my other albums also charted on these and on an Americana chart. Is this enough or do I need to keep searching for more?
- Awards: my 2013 album If I Were An Otter: Songs for Kids of All Ages received a Parents Choice Award. I have the physical award, but I can't find it online. I could upload if that would help. That album is in many libraries across the US and the title track has over 300k streams on spotify and my songs are on over 300 playlists on spotify including editorial, algorithmic and user playlists. Here's a review in No Depression of that album: https://www.nodepression.com/great-kids-music-heidi-swedberg-alice-dimicele-the-banjo-and-putumayo-americana/
- a few of the reviews for the new album (most are from Europe):
- https://americana-uk.com/alice-dimicele-every-seed-we-plant
- https://rockingmagpie.wordpress.com/2022/04/18/alice-dimicele-every-seed-we-plant/
- https://www.liverpoolsoundandvision.co.uk/2022/04/01/alice-dimicele-every-seed-we-plant-album-review/
- https://dekrentenuitdepop.blogspot.com/2022/03/alice-di-micele-every-seed-we-plant.html
- https://www.keysandchords.com/album-review-blog/alice-dimicele-every-seed-we-plant
- https://www.fatea-records.co.uk/magazine/reviews/AliceDiMicele3/
- https://dancing-about-architecture.com/every-seed-we-plant-alice-dimicele-reviewed-by-ian-oregan/
- https://orangeflagmusic.com/recensies/alice-dimicele-every-seed-we-plant
- https://www.fabricationshq.com/2022-reviews.html (you have to scroll down to find it on here)
- https://www.gaesteliste.de/review/show.html?_nr=21545
- http://musicriot.co.uk/album/every-seed-we-plant-alice-dimicele/
- video premiere: https://americanahighways.org/2022/02/21/song-premiere-alice-dimicele-alone/
- https://americana-uk.com/video-premiere-alice-dimicele-free
-
Alicedimicele (
talk)
07:59, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
- forgot to include my GLAMA award for Out recording. My song Do You Dare? came in 2nd place. https://www.queermusicheritage.com/awards.html Alicedimicele ( talk) 08:18, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
- Sing Out! Magazine was a major folk mag both print and online for a very long time.
- Here is a review of my 2015 album: https://singout.org/alice-dimicele-swim/
- and it made it in their best of 2015 column as well: https://singout.org/bestof2015/
- West Coast Live is a syndicated live radio show out of the Bay Area. I played on October 18th 2008 on the same show with Sarah Vowell & Van Jones. It is distributed all over the US on many radio stations. Here is the archived version: https://wcl.org/past-programs-2008
- The Jefferson Monthly is a magazine put out by Jefferson Public Radio the premiere radio station of my region where I get lots of airplay. The listenership spans from south of Eugene Oregon to Mendocino county in California. It's the largest area radio station that I know of. This contains a review/article on page 41 that talks about my significance in the Southern Oregon music scene: https://issuu.com/wpdigitalpublications/docs/jefferson_at_trim_size Alicedimicele ( talk) 21:03, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
- If there was coverage discussing all those things then it would be a lot easier to be convinced, but I don't think we can take any artist at their word alone for notability because we'd still have an unsourced article just full of even more unsourced claims directly from the artist (which I assume would still be a COI violation).
QuietHere (
talk)
04:35, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
- Keep - I'll be working on improving the citations and references for this page throughout the month of October. Folk music is a niche which means the typical Google searches won't be helpful (as noted by others above). I have knowledge of the folk music genre and have had better luck finding appropriate sources and will help improve this entry. I will work with the sources
Alicedimicele has provided as well. I hope other editors will keep in mind that notability within the folk genre will have different sources and references than, say, a commercial pop star. Thank you.
Jfricker (
talk)
14:05, 12 October 2022 (UTC)
- @ Jfricker: Thank you. However, the WP:MUSICBIO critera are not specific to pop stars, they apply to every musician. Which of those criteria do you feel she meets? ~ Anachronist ( talk) 18:13, 12 October 2022 (UTC)
- Keep: per WP:SIGCOV. She is the subject of significant coverage over a sustained period. There are sources mentioned above, in the article, and here: 1992 1998 1998. Her songs and activism also appear in scholarly literature ( Google Scholar: [3], [4], [5], [6], [7]) TJMSmith ( talk) 02:33, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
- Keep The coverage found demonstrates she has received prolonged coverage demonstrating GNG. Thriley ( talk) 03:08, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
- Keep this entry for Alice Di Micele and kindly remove all deficiency claims. As a professor of sociology I have addressed all standing problems, added legitimate citations, and categorized this composer and songwriter also as an activist. As such, Wiki should not use mere “musician” characteristics for quality control, but also consider Alice’s work as a philanthropist and community organizer. As these categories do not leave behind extensive online evidence, the data driven changes I made for this musician /sociomusicologist have exceeded the criteria for permanent wiki inclusion. Thank you, in advance, for considering and accepting my edits and reversing deletion for this entry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lisiunia ( talk • contribs) 02:32, 14 October 2022 (UTC) Copied from Special:PermaLink/1115960069 on talk page. Primefac ( talk) 09:32, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. Clearly No consensus between those who believe WP:SIGCOV is now met through new sources and those editors who don't. I don't think relisting this discussion would resolve this difference of opinion on this article. Liz Read! Talk! 04:19, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
Alice Di Micele
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Alice Di Micele ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Article is unsourced and I couldn't find any coverage. Article was under PROD which was removed then readded by User:Anachronist who claims to have found sources and may have an argument for WP:DRAFTIFY. I didn't see any coverage so I'm personally leaning toward delete, but I'd like to hear them out first. Also pinging User:UtherSRG who initiated the PROD. QuietHere ( talk) 04:06, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Bands and musicians, New Jersey, and Oregon. QuietHere ( talk) 04:06, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
- And a note for anyone searching that there are more results to be found under "Alice DiMicele" spelling. Page was recently moved from that spelling to the current one without discussion which I suspect might've been the wrong move just based on sheer number of results on Google and the Wayback Machine.
QuietHere (
talk)
04:13, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
- According to her own website, the spelling is "Di Micele" (with space), but the Internet often removes the space, leading to both versions being visible in search results. ---
DOOMSDAYER520 (
TALK|
CONTRIBS)
14:15, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
- my name on drivers license is spelled Di Micele for the record. I had know idea what a huge pain it would be for me... I might have used a stage name had I know this 35 years ago... but here we are and I'm still doing my thing. Alicedimicele ( talk) 22:36, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
- According to her own website, the spelling is "Di Micele" (with space), but the Internet often removes the space, leading to both versions being visible in search results. ---
DOOMSDAYER520 (
TALK|
CONTRIBS)
14:15, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
- Soft delete or draftify - I originally removed the prod and created this AFD page, which I subsequently deleted after I actually did find sources, and then I reverted my edit that had replaced the prod with the AFD tag in the article, which had the effect of restoring the prod.
Plenty of newspaper sources here: https://www.google.com/search?&q=%22Alice+Di+Micele%22&tbs=bkt:s&tbm=bks - although many of them are just announcements with a smattering of pieces giving significant coverage. Therefore, while I think the article is abysmal and qualifies for speedy deletion in its current state because it makes no credible assertion of significance, cites no independent sources, and fails to demonstrate any inclusion criterion in WP:MUSICBIO, I am no longer convinced that the subject isn't notable because independent coverage does exist. I wouldn't object to draftification. ~ Anachronist ( talk) 05:06, 8 October 2022 (UTC)- That list did provide this piece which is solid coverage, but that's it. There was one festival review where she got one sentence of praise, but otherwise it's all concert announcements without any prose about the subject. I'm still leaning on delete; not much point in draftifying without knowing there's enough coverage to actually save the article 'cause it won't pass notability in draft reviews. QuietHere ( talk) 09:01, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Women-related deletion discussions. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 07:32, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
- Delete - She's been around for a long time and seems to get a lot of gigs, because newspaper announcements of her local appearances are pretty prevalent. However, I can find very little substantial coverage of her career of the type that can build an encyclopedic article. She gets some minor coverage like this album review: [1], and this biographical intro: [2]. Unfortunately I can't find anything truly reliable and significant. --- DOOMSDAYER520 ( TALK| CONTRIBS) 14:24, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
- Comment - I PROD'd, because it was tagged as Speedy, but I couldn't justify under the CSD guidelines. I'm surprised this article has lasted for so many years without a deletion discussion. I'm leaning towards delete, though draftify would be a good option. I'm also the user who moved it to its current placement, based off of the edits on the topic's name and the edit comments about that (which cite the artist's own website). - UtherSRG (talk) 15:39, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
- Delete. The overall lack of coverage, relatively obscure starting point and external references build a decent-enough case as things currently stand, but what really stands out to me is the lack of any holistic significance that would be beneficial in an encyclopedic format. Regardless of whether garnering attention plays into any of the already-noted sources, the sheer fact that most pieces are mere announcements of the subject's existence - nothing more, nothing less, and certainly nothing of use apart from compiling a loose list of appearances - justify the negligibility of the page's creation in the first place. Without any significant value as a page, there's no legitiamte reason I can find to justify its existence, either in the past or in the future. ^^ Anyone else? TheMysteriousShadeheart ( talk) 19:18, 8 October 2022 (UTC)
- Comment - Alice herself attempted to edit the article. I reversed that I put her onto the
WP:COI policy. She's left information on
her own talk that may be of help in determining significance or notability. -
UtherSRG
(talk)
19:19, 9 October 2022 (UTC)
- If there was coverage discussing all those things then it would be a lot easier to be convinced, but I don't think we can take any artist at their word alone for notability because we'd still have an unsourced article just full of even more unsourced claims directly from the artist (which I assume would still be a COI violation).
QuietHere (
talk)
04:35, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
- As for being relevant to a city, here's the Best of Ashland, Oregon where I was chosen in 2020 as favorite singer/musician: https://www.sneakpre.com/ashland-business-grapevine/item/the-best-of-ashland-part-2 I also won first place several times in the 90's and have had mention in many recent years as well.
- For music charts relevant to my kind of music: The Folk Alliance International Folk Chart for March 2022: https://acousticmusicscene.com/2022/04/12/fai-folk-radio-charts-march-2022/
- and April: https://acousticmusicscene.com/2022/05/10/fai-folk-radio-charts-april-2022/
- Here's one with my 2018 Release One With the Tide: https://www.folkradio.org/chart/january-2018/
- Here's the Roots Music Report in 2015 which shows my album Swim and songs from it. https://www.rootsmusicreport.com/charts/view/song/genre/folk/weekly/2015-04-14/2015-04-14
- Here two songs from the 2015 album were still charting in 2021: https://www.rootsmusicreport.com/charts/view/song/sub_genre/alternative-folk/weekly/2021-08-07/2021-08-07
- Here's one from 2007: https://www.rootsmusicreport.com/charts/view/song/sub_genre/alternative-folk/weekly/2021-08-07/2021-08-07
- I know my other albums also charted on these and on an Americana chart. Is this enough or do I need to keep searching for more?
- Awards: my 2013 album If I Were An Otter: Songs for Kids of All Ages received a Parents Choice Award. I have the physical award, but I can't find it online. I could upload if that would help. That album is in many libraries across the US and the title track has over 300k streams on spotify and my songs are on over 300 playlists on spotify including editorial, algorithmic and user playlists. Here's a review in No Depression of that album: https://www.nodepression.com/great-kids-music-heidi-swedberg-alice-dimicele-the-banjo-and-putumayo-americana/
- a few of the reviews for the new album (most are from Europe):
- https://americana-uk.com/alice-dimicele-every-seed-we-plant
- https://rockingmagpie.wordpress.com/2022/04/18/alice-dimicele-every-seed-we-plant/
- https://www.liverpoolsoundandvision.co.uk/2022/04/01/alice-dimicele-every-seed-we-plant-album-review/
- https://dekrentenuitdepop.blogspot.com/2022/03/alice-di-micele-every-seed-we-plant.html
- https://www.keysandchords.com/album-review-blog/alice-dimicele-every-seed-we-plant
- https://www.fatea-records.co.uk/magazine/reviews/AliceDiMicele3/
- https://dancing-about-architecture.com/every-seed-we-plant-alice-dimicele-reviewed-by-ian-oregan/
- https://orangeflagmusic.com/recensies/alice-dimicele-every-seed-we-plant
- https://www.fabricationshq.com/2022-reviews.html (you have to scroll down to find it on here)
- https://www.gaesteliste.de/review/show.html?_nr=21545
- http://musicriot.co.uk/album/every-seed-we-plant-alice-dimicele/
- video premiere: https://americanahighways.org/2022/02/21/song-premiere-alice-dimicele-alone/
- https://americana-uk.com/video-premiere-alice-dimicele-free
-
Alicedimicele (
talk)
07:59, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
- forgot to include my GLAMA award for Out recording. My song Do You Dare? came in 2nd place. https://www.queermusicheritage.com/awards.html Alicedimicele ( talk) 08:18, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
- Sing Out! Magazine was a major folk mag both print and online for a very long time.
- Here is a review of my 2015 album: https://singout.org/alice-dimicele-swim/
- and it made it in their best of 2015 column as well: https://singout.org/bestof2015/
- West Coast Live is a syndicated live radio show out of the Bay Area. I played on October 18th 2008 on the same show with Sarah Vowell & Van Jones. It is distributed all over the US on many radio stations. Here is the archived version: https://wcl.org/past-programs-2008
- The Jefferson Monthly is a magazine put out by Jefferson Public Radio the premiere radio station of my region where I get lots of airplay. The listenership spans from south of Eugene Oregon to Mendocino county in California. It's the largest area radio station that I know of. This contains a review/article on page 41 that talks about my significance in the Southern Oregon music scene: https://issuu.com/wpdigitalpublications/docs/jefferson_at_trim_size Alicedimicele ( talk) 21:03, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
- If there was coverage discussing all those things then it would be a lot easier to be convinced, but I don't think we can take any artist at their word alone for notability because we'd still have an unsourced article just full of even more unsourced claims directly from the artist (which I assume would still be a COI violation).
QuietHere (
talk)
04:35, 10 October 2022 (UTC)
- Keep - I'll be working on improving the citations and references for this page throughout the month of October. Folk music is a niche which means the typical Google searches won't be helpful (as noted by others above). I have knowledge of the folk music genre and have had better luck finding appropriate sources and will help improve this entry. I will work with the sources
Alicedimicele has provided as well. I hope other editors will keep in mind that notability within the folk genre will have different sources and references than, say, a commercial pop star. Thank you.
Jfricker (
talk)
14:05, 12 October 2022 (UTC)
- @ Jfricker: Thank you. However, the WP:MUSICBIO critera are not specific to pop stars, they apply to every musician. Which of those criteria do you feel she meets? ~ Anachronist ( talk) 18:13, 12 October 2022 (UTC)
- Keep: per WP:SIGCOV. She is the subject of significant coverage over a sustained period. There are sources mentioned above, in the article, and here: 1992 1998 1998. Her songs and activism also appear in scholarly literature ( Google Scholar: [3], [4], [5], [6], [7]) TJMSmith ( talk) 02:33, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
- Keep The coverage found demonstrates she has received prolonged coverage demonstrating GNG. Thriley ( talk) 03:08, 13 October 2022 (UTC)
- Keep this entry for Alice Di Micele and kindly remove all deficiency claims. As a professor of sociology I have addressed all standing problems, added legitimate citations, and categorized this composer and songwriter also as an activist. As such, Wiki should not use mere “musician” characteristics for quality control, but also consider Alice’s work as a philanthropist and community organizer. As these categories do not leave behind extensive online evidence, the data driven changes I made for this musician /sociomusicologist have exceeded the criteria for permanent wiki inclusion. Thank you, in advance, for considering and accepting my edits and reversing deletion for this entry. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lisiunia ( talk • contribs) 02:32, 14 October 2022 (UTC) Copied from Special:PermaLink/1115960069 on talk page. Primefac ( talk) 09:32, 14 October 2022 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.