2015
Arbitration Committee Elections
Status
This page collects the discussion pages for each of the candidates for the Arbitration Committee elections of December 2015. To read Candidate Statements and their Q&As during the Nomination process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2015/Candidates. To discuss the elections in general, see Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2015.
Please endeavor to remain calm and respectful at all times, even when dealing with people you disagree with or candidates you do not support.
Hi @ Callanecc: Really like your upbeat tone, thanks for that, as well as your service.
Thanks; LeoRomero ( talk) 01:13, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
Thanks @ Callanecc: I went a little cross-eyed over your insider terms, and did read the internal clerk procedure you recommended, so now my eyes are permanently crossed. I don't know which will serve Wikipedia better, your expertise or your commitment to service, but I'm betting on both. - LeoRomero ( talk) 18:15, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
I'm pleased to see Callanecc running. He/she seems to have his/her head screwed on. Deb ( talk) 13:37, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
linus torvalds created a community of programmers working on the linux kernel 1991. the community grew since then to nowadays 5'000 commits a month, 5 times more than 10 years ago. alone the linux kernel mailing list receives more than 20'000 messages a month, 3 times more than 10 years ago. innovative technologies are added to the kernel first from universities, individuals, companies, bearing the GPL. what do you see as the key success factors of that development, and what can you take off that into your work at wikipedia? -- ThurnerRupert ( talk) 15:28, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
linus torvalds created a community of programmers working on the linux kernel 1991. the community grew since then to nowadays 5'000 commits a month, 5 times more than 10 years ago. alone the linux kernel mailing list receives more than 20'000 messages a month, 3 times more than 10 years ago. innovative technologies are added to the kernel first from universities, individuals, companies, bearing the GPL. what do you see as the key success factors of that development, and what can you take off that into your work at wikipedia? -- ThurnerRupert ( talk) 15:25, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
Sorry for the long post, but you touched a nerve.
"If we restrict arb cases to socking, edit-warring and incivility we are leaving wikipedia wide open to organised assaults by parties seeking to influence content (i.e. we're screwed)." You've got my vote because of this. I agree that ArbCom needs to focus more on big-picture issues that give guidance, set precedents, and work out the gray areas, accepting cases based on their potential impact across all of WP, not just the experience of a few editors, or a small set of articles. Right now it seems that the editor with the most time to spare and who shouts the loudest determines our content, and ArbCom can never keep up with that. We need better guidance on the ground, and we need to have a culture of following that guidance. Right now there is an acronym to support any viewpoint anyone wants to push, and anyone who ventures into editing articles of a new subject can find a hostile reception if they are not already indoctrinated into the absurdly different cultures we have for editing different article types by different standards. There is nothing systematic about the way we go about creating and expanding articles, or like you alluded to, how we use sources.
When ArbCom finds someone has been edit warring and sanctions them, how does that help the rest of us? We already know we shouldn't edit war and that we might face sanctions if we do. Yeah, we need arbitration and an enforcement mechanism, but if ArbCom determines a certain kind of behavior shouldn't be considered edit warring, or that another kind should be, that's much more important. That affects all of us. In the American legal system, appellate courts don't address findings of fact, only findings of law. (Juries find facts.) In ArbCom terms, how do policies apply in this type of case? Are policies being applied fairly? Are current policies adequate? Is the system of disseminating policies to editors adequate? What chance does the average editor have of understanding fundamental policies and therefore noticing policy violations by parties seeking to influence our content for their gain? It's madly inconsistent at the ground level. (e.g., In disaster articles, the source with the highest death toll seems to be the one we go with.)
But how would you make that work? The alleged sockpuppets and edit warriors need their fair hearing. It would seem to mean either restructuring ANI or adding another level of binding dispute resolution between ANI & ArbCom. Dcs002 ( talk) 07:20, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
linus torvalds created a community of programmers working on the linux kernel 1991. the community grew since then to nowadays 5'000 commits a month, 5 times more than 10 years ago. alone the linux kernel mailing list receives more than 20'000 messages a month, 3 times more than 10 years ago. innovative technologies are added to the kernel first from universities, individuals, companies, bearing the GPL. what do you see as the key success factors of that development, and what can you take off that into your work at wikipedia? -- ThurnerRupert ( talk) 15:25, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
Direct experience has shown Gamaliel doesn't have the temperament, discipline, competence, or fair mindedness for such an important post, and it's alarming that he's this close to getting it. It's bad enough that he allows his strong political opinions to color his editing in inappropriate ways, but more importantly he's abused his admin status, he's cited dubious policy rationales that at best betray a misunderstanding, and at times his behavior has been downright trollish. Just last year he was involved in an extended content/edit war on the America: Imagine the World Without Her movie board.
Edit warring: [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8], [9], [10], [11], [12], [13],
The community ultimately rejected his argument in this dispute in multiple RFCs. During this dispute, in which he was undeniably heavily involved, he at least once used his admin powers to erase an opposing editor's edit summary (August 19, 2014 17:11
[14]; not discovered until weeks later, when he admitted it under questioning by another editor in the discussion linked below). He also sometimes replied to serious, on topic posts with large, sophomoric pictures (e.g. scroll to bottom -
[15],
[16],
[17]) or linked to a youtube video as his edit summary (
[18]), which did nothing but enhance disruption in an already contentious dispute. Here's a sample of the personal invective he spewed on the talk page in this discussion:
"You people are ridiculous."
"It has an odious reputation amongst everyone not in the wingnut bubble"
"You have consistently and perhaps purposefully missed the point."
"For added hilarity and accuracy, I imagined you saying this stamping your feet."
"I'm going to start calling you Scarecrow because you love the straw man so much. My primary argument is "unconvincing" because you have no idea what it is. I have to keep repeating it for you so much I should just create a template for it."
"This shit is exactly why dealing with you is so unpleasant, because any attempt to collaborate or engage with you is met with a punch in the dick….. Instead I'm on the receiving end of months-long harangues about someone's low traffic blog and a partisan shit sewer. Fuck this noise, go argue with your mirror."
"I'm beginning to think you are some sort of performance art project."
"Why are you acting like a jackass?"
"It's been a very long edit conflict here, and we all have had moments where we've been less than perfect, but you are the only one standing in a pile of your own bullshit and insisting that you smell absolutely delicious."
"The SPA who is the chief proponent of including Brietbart"
"This SPA should have been topic banned months ago. It's long past time to bring this to ANI."
"And despite your repeated farcical lie that I haven't identified what is in dispute,"
"It's clear this temper tantrum is a deliberate strategy of yours to obfuscate that issue."
"Is something wrong with your brain?"
(sic)
Despite our personal, extended, adversarial involvement just months earlier, this past September Gamaliel was the first admin to reply to a malformed, tit for tat DS report against me by an editor I had just reported to the edit warring board, one that contained not a single evidence diff of any of my posts or edits or even a coherent accusation against me. It was a report that should have been immediately deleted, but instead he kept it alive, prodded the accuser to provide evidence (she never did), and in subsequent comments proceeded to both ignore evidence I posted against her (for which multiple posters corrected him, not that he acknowledged it) and even hinted that some action against me might be warranted for alleged POV editing, despite not a single diff of my editing having been presented. At that point I was forced to ask him to recuse himself, generously only providing some broad outlines of our past interaction (and a later offer to delete it all if he would delete his comments about me). He did recuse himself, claiming he hadn't previously recognized my screenname, but did so with a lengthy, snarky, and venomous paragraph full of personal attacks like I "should not be editing any Wikipedia article at all, much less one of our most important ones, nor should he be allowed to use a computer without adult supervision", "belligerent SPA", and accused me of "deceptiveness", among other things. [21] Another editor called his recusal "one of the pettiest actions I have seen by an "un-involved" admin", but he never deleted or even struck through it. Despite that poisoned well, after he recused himself ultimately no action was taken against me in the DS case.
The attacks by Gamaliel against me and other editors through all this were invariably false (the easily debunkable "SPA" charge was especially egregious, as that tag basically exists to imply that someone is a paid or COI editor on a particular topic, and the "Who not to tag (SPA tagging guidelines)" make it clear I'm not even close to an SPA, so he was apparently just bitter and trolling in a failed to attempt to marginalize and discredit an editor with whom he disagreed), but since none of us are running for office it's not worth getting into those details.
Gamaliel's behavior has been reprehensible and isn't that of someone who is fit to be entrusted with Arbcom power. Everyone makes mistakes, and Gamaliel vaguely alluded to past blemishes on his own record in his statement, but I've seen no evidence that he sees anything wrong with his specific actions laid out here, nor that they wouldn't continue. I've seen long time admins/Arbcom members who are unfailingly polite, reasonable, and generally avoid controversies, especially political ones. Gamaliel is the opposite of that. I'll be happy to engage in a civil conversation with him about this if he wants, but right now I see no reason why I or anyone else should have confidence that he would be a fair judge of other editors. VictorD7 ( talk) 01:33, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
linus torvalds created a community of programmers working on the linux kernel 1991. the community grew since then to nowadays 5'000 commits a month, 5 times more than 10 years ago. alone the linux kernel mailing list receives more than 20'000 messages a month, 3 times more than 10 years ago. innovative technologies are added to the kernel first from universities, individuals, companies, bearing the GPL. what do you see as the key success factors of that development, and what can you take off that into your work at wikipedia? -- ThurnerRupert ( talk) 15:25, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
Hello. Your experience and priorities seem valuable and I would likely vote for you. However, there is something to be said about your ID name. It does not inspire the image of an objective mediator and it brings about images of an edit warrior and despotism. My 2 cents. Cheers, BatteryIncluded ( talk) 16:59, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
Hi @ GorillaWarfare: Just 3 questions
Thanks; LeoRomero ( talk) 02:10, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
On your page, you link to the article for The Satanic Bible, the LeVayan Satanist text. I understand that you consider it an example of a "Good article", but I think you'll agree that it's a rather controversial choice. Do you endorse the group and its beliefs, and if so, how can people expect you to be neutral in arbitrations of a religious nature when you belong (or at least are openly sympathetic) to what is essentially a parody religion founded by and consisting of Atheists that have been known to use Satanic imagery and other means to intentionally mock those who believe in a higher power? - TBustah ( talk) 17:53, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
linus torvalds created a community of programmers working on the linux kernel 1991. the community grew since then to nowadays 5'000 commits a month, 5 times more than 10 years ago. alone the linux kernel mailing list receives more than 20'000 messages a month, 3 times more than 10 years ago. innovative technologies are added to the kernel first from universities, individuals, companies, bearing the GPL. what do you see as the key success factors of that development, and what can you take off that into your work at wikipedia? -- ThurnerRupert ( talk) 15:26, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
Unfortunately I cannot support this candidate for four reasons. The candidate was previously desysopped back in February 2012. At good articles on the instructions page it states, "an impartial reviewer to assess" but when I went to look at one of the good articles listed on the candidates user page, I noticed the GA nomination was reviewed by a fellow member of the Military History WikiProject. At present, they are both Coordinators at the Military History WikiProject. I assumed this to be a one off incident but quickly discovered another GA listed on the user page of the candidate whereby another Military History Coordinator reviewed their nomination and approved the article to GA. While I don't necessarily doubt both articles are GA worthy, I do not agree with this practice to which the candidate is a willing participant.
In regards to the question I asked of the candidate, I specifically to asked "for their interpretation", and they provided me with a summary of the history and opinions of others without stating their own. I expect members of the Arbitration Committee to be direct and articulate their opinions in the first person and clearly when asked. I do assume that by leaving out certain parts of the discussion they indirectly stated their support for a position but by leaving things open to loose interpretations and guessing, it isn't a strong quality for a candidate. Lastly, I do acknowledge that I have personal reasons for opposing. The accusations by the candidate, stated indirectly by giving it weight in their statement and choosing to outline their answer in the third person, that voting stacking was committed by the party that brought up the concern is unsubstantiated. I expect Arbitrators to carefully weight both sides and work in good faith which is seemingly lacking and absent in the very least in assessing that conversation. I understand their allegiances to their group but I would further expect them to otherwise recuse themselves as they were involved if they did not want to explain their personal opinions. I have the upmost respect for this candidates tenure as a seasoned and skilled writer and organizer, so I still wish them well in the election, but I fundamentally do not think they have the experience to arbitrate cases. Mkdw talk 04:01, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
linus torvalds created a community of programmers working on the linux kernel 1991. the community grew since then to nowadays 5'000 commits a month, 5 times more than 10 years ago. alone the linux kernel mailing list receives more than 20'000 messages a month, 3 times more than 10 years ago. innovative technologies are added to the kernel first from universities, individuals, companies, bearing the GPL. what do you see as the key success factors of that development, and what can you take off that into your work at wikipedia? -- ThurnerRupert ( talk) 15:28, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
In your statement you claim to have made a huge number of edits in about 1 year. This over 150 edits per day, obviously due to some automation. How many non-trivial edits have you performed? neffk ( talk)
I stopped editing on Wikipedia because of this person. He is corrupt. He deletes anything that goes against his personal values. It's ironic that he should be eligible for this committee. It's like nobody can touch him. I refuse to be a part of Wikipedia ever again because of him and people like him. Have a look at his record and it becomes very obvious what he's all about. He's great at pulling the wool over people's eyes, but he remains an example of the kind of corruption that the founder of Wikipedia was complaining about in the media a few months ago. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 197.89.182.143 ( talk) 14:22, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
The bias and uncompromising nature of the candidate is obvious to anyone who has interacted with him. He refuses to accept any sourcing for articles on subjects he dislikes, yet contributes to unsourced articles on other subjects. His incivility has driven off many contributors. Those who have left Wikipedia due to editors like this are not going to do your work for you. The candidate's history is all there. Look now, or learn later. 2600:1012:B12D:7826:E8B3:3950:8A20:2CBB ( talk) 00:53, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
Hi @ Hullaballoo Wolfowitz:
Thanks; LeoRomero ( talk) 01:00, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
linus torvalds created a community of programmers working on the linux kernel 1991. the community grew since then to nowadays 5'000 commits a month, 5 times more than 10 years ago. alone the linux kernel mailing list receives more than 20'000 messages a month, 3 times more than 10 years ago. innovative technologies are added to the kernel first from universities, individuals, companies, bearing the GPL. what do you see as the key success factors of that development, and what can you take off that into your work at wikipedia? -- ThurnerRupert ( talk) 15:28, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
Hi @ Keilana: Thanks for your work on diversity, systemic bias, STEAM and NIOSH.
Re ArbCom has become less and less effective in actually solving the problems faced by Wikipedia’s regular editors, and I think that my experience in facilitating collaboration and my problem solving skills can help make the arbitration process both more effective and more useful to the community.
What are the top obstacles to ArbCom doing its job well, and what will you do about them?
Thanks; LeoRomero ( talk) 01:31, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
Thanks @ Keilana: I think Wikipedia will get better thanks to you and your talents (esp as EMT, if only you could administer remotely). Browsed your Q&A, liked how you ran it. Suggest you post an abstract on this main discussion page. - TYA; LeoRomero ( talk) 19:00, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
Hi,Keilana, I want to ask you how you would best perform for this task, what are your intentions and strategies. best wihses--
Jogi 007 ( talk) 07:35, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
linus torvalds created a community of programmers working on the linux kernel 1991. the community grew since then to nowadays 5'000 commits a month, 5 times more than 10 years ago. alone the linux kernel mailing list receives more than 20'000 messages a month, 3 times more than 10 years ago. innovative technologies are added to the kernel first from universities, individuals, companies, bearing the GPL. what do you see as the key success factors of that development, and what can you take off that into your work at wikipedia? -- ThurnerRupert ( talk) 15:28, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
linus torvalds created a community of programmers working on the linux kernel 1991. the community grew since then to nowadays 5'000 commits a month, 5 times more than 10 years ago. alone the linux kernel mailing list receives more than 20'000 messages a month, 3 times more than 10 years ago. innovative technologies are added to the kernel first from universities, individuals, companies, bearing the GPL. what do you see as the key success factors of that development, and what can you take off that into your work at wikipedia? -- ThurnerRupert ( talk) 15:28, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
linus torvalds created a community of programmers working on the linux kernel 1991. the community grew since then to nowadays 5'000 commits a month, 5 times more than 10 years ago. alone the linux kernel mailing list receives more than 20'000 messages a month, 3 times more than 10 years ago. innovative technologies are added to the kernel first from universities, individuals, companies, bearing the GPL. what do you see as the key success factors of that development, and what can you take off that into your work at wikipedia? -- ThurnerRupert ( talk) 15:28, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
I was disturbed by the candidate User:Kevin Gorman using the Wikipedia:Wikipedia Weekly facebook group to attack user:Roger Davies about his position on Overight of gender. For future reference, the link was https://www.facebook.com/groups/wikipediaweekly/permalink/921760971205068/ . That link now shows "This post has been removed or could not be loaded." John Vandenberg ( chat) 22:22, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
Now that our respected editor has passed on, is he still considered a candidate? 29 November 2016 MVD 13:47, 29 November 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by MichaelVernonDavis ( talk • contribs)
linus torvalds created a community of programmers working on the linux kernel 1991. the community grew since then to nowadays 5'000 commits a month, 5 times more than 10 years ago. alone the linux kernel mailing list receives more than 20'000 messages a month, 3 times more than 10 years ago. innovative technologies are added to the kernel first from universities, individuals, companies, bearing the GPL. what do you see as the key success factors of that development, and what can you take off that into your work at wikipedia? -- ThurnerRupert ( talk) 15:28, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
This [23], this [24], this [25], this [26] and this [27] are recent examples of the candidate being disgruntled since launching his campaign only a week ago. In particular accusations of attempting to derail a candidate’s election seem very wide of the mark.
If this level of “complaining about one’s lot” was in front of the community in an RfA or RfB the candidate could be considered by some as regretting the transclusion. A candidate for the most senior elected position has to be more enthusiastic. We are not election Mr Speaker who has to be dragged to the chair. Complaining about questions, questioners and discussing withdrawing at the drop of a hat before or even after the event does not demonstrate commitment.
Our own article on the subject of stonewalling is neutral in describing such behaviour as neither good or bad - simply a strategy to present a selection of information a person is willing to give or withhold in order to protect one's image. However, when there is a detailed process to assist in a large scale elections, failing to answer questions carries an obvious risk. Also, simply referring to a nomination statement for answers when the NS is devoid of comment on the matter requested is, to say the least, unhelpful.
“If you have read my nomination statement, I'm sure you will understand and will be able to rest assured that as an Arbcom member, I would press for the severest sanctions for anyone who comes to a page with blatant lies, innuendo, veiled PA, and issues taken deliberately out of context to discredit a fellow editor or admin.” has been cut & pasted 7 times in response to a series of questions.
For disclosure, there is enmity between us stemming from a simple query I raised on his TP 4 years ago which was met with unnecessary hostility for which Kudpung apologised. Things have not improved and we have disputed a couple of RfA matters. Leaky Caldron 20:32, 19 November 2015 (UTC)
Hi @ Kudpung: Thanks for contributing to Wikipedia in so many ways. Could you please clarify what you mean by:
- It's very hard work and time consuming for absolutely no reward whatsoever (a bit like being an admin only much, much worse), and it takes one away from the very reason one joined Wikipedia for.
- Less than 10. You'll probably discover them on the question page.
- Yes, of course I did.
Thanks; LeoRomero ( talk) 00:35, 24 November 2015 (UTC
- is there any reason you didn['t follow the instructions and put these questions on the question page? -- Kudpung กุดผึ้ง ( talk) 09:44, 25 November 2015 (UTC))
The only time I came in contact with this person was at ANI, and got a bad first impression. For whatever reason Kudpung decided it was okay to bring up my age when it came to editing. [28] To find this one out he had to have gone all the way back in time to the start of my talk-page, I had removed this bit of info as I thought it was too revealing. The point is my opinion didn't matter on material I might or might not have wanted to keep to myself. I had pretty much put the matter behind me until I saw Kudpung's name pop up as a candidate for arbcom. What I hope for this candidate is that they think more before bringing up things editors may or may not want known rather than just assuming it is perfectly okay. - Knowledgekid87 ( talk) 01:55, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
Having fully assessed everything you have said, the subtle and not so subtle indications you vent together with your highly influencing senior pedagogic background, you treat WP like some global, virtual Dotheboys Hall. If that is your schtick, good look, we'll need it. Someone point me to the retired banner. Thanks by the way for removing your absured public accusation that I had been blocked 12 times. "Your ability to do accurate research must improve. D- on your school report." Leaky Caldron 13:16, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
linus torvalds created a community of programmers working on the linux kernel 1991. the community grew since then to nowadays 5'000 commits a month, 5 times more than 10 years ago. alone the linux kernel mailing list receives more than 20'000 messages a month, 3 times more than 10 years ago. innovative technologies are added to the kernel first from universities, individuals, companies, bearing the GPL. what do you see as the key success factors of that development, and what can you take off that into your work at wikipedia? -- ThurnerRupert ( talk) 15:28, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
I have moved this comment here from Kudpung's Questions page as the sections on such pages are reserved for the specific user asking questions and the candidate answering them. THEowner of a l l 20:56, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
Comment: I understand why moving the above comment here was appropriate, but I want to state clearly that, although my name is used in this subsection heading, I do not wish to be associated with that comment, in fact or in spirit. I do not endorse such sarcastic personal attacks, regardless of whether I intend to vote for the candidate. Dcs002 ( talk) 23:49, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
linus torvalds created a community of programmers working on the linux kernel 1991. the community grew since then to nowadays 5'000 commits a month, 5 times more than 10 years ago. alone the linux kernel mailing list receives more than 20'000 messages a month, 3 times more than 10 years ago. innovative technologies are added to the kernel first from universities, individuals, companies, bearing the GPL. what do you see as the key success factors of that development, and what can you take off that into your work at wikipedia? -- ThurnerRupert ( talk) 15:28, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
linus torvalds created a community of programmers working on the linux kernel 1991. the community grew since then to nowadays 5'000 commits a month, 5 times more than 10 years ago. alone the linux kernel mailing list receives more than 20'000 messages a month, 3 times more than 10 years ago. innovative technologies are added to the kernel first from universities, individuals, companies, bearing the GPL. what do you see as the key success factors of that development, and what can you take off that into your work at wikipedia? -- ThurnerRupert ( talk) 15:28, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
Mark Bernstein attempted to get me banned from Wikipedia because of my behavior. I vote against his adminship. 2602:306:8B40:CC20:6466:4F15:BFBB:ADCA ( talk) 21:45, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
I think this user should be banned from Wikipedia for his leftist, SJW and anti-free speech mindset. He is a fanger to Wikipedia and unfit for any arbcom or even admin tasks. He is a frequent pain in the rear for editors who want to add sourced material and a user who often tries to keep articles such as gamergate completely NOT npov. Banning him from Wikipedia has already been done, yet he keeps coming back because of his leftist SJW friends. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.90.245.209 ( talk) 16:57, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
I don't object to anonymity. IPs are people too. However, for the benefit of uninvolved electors, accusations of this kind should be sourced, preferably in the form of diffs. Unsubstantiated scuttlebutt can and will be ignored. De Guerre ( talk) 01:31, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
STRONG SUPPORT: I strongly endorse Mark Bernstein's candidacy for ArbCom. He is a deep thinker is deeply knowledgeable about hypertextuality. He is a hard worker, and is fair and principled. Pleasantville ( talk) 01:41, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
ENDORSE: I voted for you, Mark. Even though I am sympathetic to the GamerGators and generally loathe SJWs, I know that there should be balance on ArbCom. That means that there will be leftists. If we need to have leftist SJWs I would rather have you than someone totally irrational or high-strung. You are not irrational, you are not high-strung. I'm just happy that you're willing to be on ArbCom, as we could have a lot worse than you. I am not being sarcastic. I did vote for you. Thank you for your service in general. -- FeralOink ( talk) 03:57, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
Comments/questions As far as I can tell, this candidate seems to be driven by one very important issue. But that's just one issue. What if that issue doesn't come up in any ArbCom cases during the next term? Has he pre-judged any cases that are pending? He has a rather elaborate and hmm... I'll say floral writing style that makes me not really want to read. Does this candidate work well with those of opposing views, or will he muck things up with endless, righteous, stubborn argument? We need strong voices on this one issue, but I have seen no sign of neutrality before the evidence. All I see is advocacy. We need that on this issue, but how will that make ArbCom a fair and open body? It's like WP's Supreme Court. I don't want Johnny Cochrane on the bench. I want him on the other side of the bench, arguing the cases.
If I sound like I'm just being critical, I am, but critical in the academic sense. I really want to understand this candidate, and if my comments are misguided, I would like to learn why. I would not be here wasting my time if I weren't interested. Dcs002 ( talk) 07:50, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
STRONG SUPPORT AND MY VOTE, DESPITE NOT BEING AS MIFFED AT PR: I strongly support Mark, however I'm not as miffed as he is about PR agencies on Wiki. I have nothing to do with them, but frankly, I think they add a lot of value to Wiki. For example, I'm the main creator of the List of Music Software Article, and I actually enjoy when agencies and shills add links to new software. It keeps us more Amazon like, and gives researchers options and choices, buyer beware or not. In fact, I even like Amazon links to books as much as ISBNs that you have to wade through. I know this is a much different view than Mark's and in fact most other editors, and I wanted to strongly voice my support despite this major difference of opinion. I respect his strong views on care about living persons also, even though some of his edits have a fine enough sorting algorithm to exclude some possibly worthy academics. Trade off acceptable for the good it does. All these candidates have trade offs, but Mark and Callanecc have the experience needed to fix Arb, and anyone burned by it after working their butts off on articles knows it NEEDS fixing. So, after all that, I happily show my hand: Mark is thumbs up because he knows how much this needs fixing, and has the experience, objectivity and passion to make it happen. Pdecalculus ( talk) 14:43, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
CAUTIOUSLY SUPPORT: Definitely passionate about the subjects he edits. Major plus for ArbCom, but it is prone to forgoing any alternates to come forward. If Mark is willing to keep his sarcastic writing style and humor + doesn't get into fights with other ArbCom editors then he's got my non-existent vote. (sorry, m8, I don't edit much so I'm not eligible, but I'd like to give my two cents for those who want it.)
Sethyre (
talk) 19:39, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
linus torvalds created a community of programmers working on the linux kernel 1991. the community grew since then to nowadays 5'000 commits a month, 5 times more than 10 years ago. alone the linux kernel mailing list receives more than 20'000 messages a month, 3 times more than 10 years ago. innovative technologies are added to the kernel first from universities, individuals, companies, bearing the GPL. what do you see as the key success factors of that development, and what can you take off that into your work at wikipedia? -- ThurnerRupert ( talk) 15:28, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
I have harshly criticized NE Ent once or twice. NE Ent is a fine, calm person who does not return fire. NE Ent would make a good arbitrator. Jehochman Talk 14:07, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
This edit suggests a bias in favour of a certain editor, and against proper enforcement of the civility policy. It's true that the "heinously misogynistic" (note hyperbolic language) US usage is not prevalent in the UK and Australia and New Zealand, however the "moderate UK insult" is actually very strong and will probably get your teeth knocked out if you use it on a random person in the pub. It's probably the only word you still can't say on TV in these countries (I've heard "fuck" plenty of times on BBC programs). I suspect Ent knows all this, but for whatever reason is biased either in favour of Eric or against enforcement of normal decorum and civility. (For the record I have no personal beef with Eric and would happily collaborate with him on an article, however we tend not to edit in the same areas).
Also of concern is the preoccupation with other people's drama at the expense of encyclopedia building... no non-admin should have more edits to ANI than to main space. When not posting at various ANI threads, he's writing essays about civility, patronisingly telling people that " life is not fair" or trying to invent his own wikipedia memes. MaxBrowne ( talk) 10:53, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
When formulating my evidence section for AE2, I was repeatedly struck by the absurdity of having to justify an insult. In Wikipedia-as-it-should-be, it would not matter which (UK/US) connotation was meant. But in a world where anger, aggression, vehemence, disparagement, snark, sarcasm, snideness, harassment, demeaning, name calling, profanity, punishment, revenge, payback, keeping score, arrogance, put downs, AGF is not a suicide pact, Facepalm, seriously? derision, sigh, troll, wtf, ffs, narcissist, fuck off is common, it actually becomes important, depressingly, to distinguish between run of the mill insult and outlier insult.
NE Ent 13:39, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
I understand the offensiveness, and, during the original 2011 episode, with Eric's consent redacted the usage. As I said at the time It'll either blow over (achieving nothing) or blow up (causing lots of churn and angst and in the end achieve nothing) If Wikipedia was truly focused on dispute resolution, rather than punishment, it could have ended there, instead of still churning over it four years later. NE Ent 13:39, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
As is obvious from the history of NE Ent's talk page, as well as my own Q&A page, I'm trying to finalize the candidates I want to support. I was earlier asked about the idea of a non-admin becoming an arbitrator, and the more I thought about it, the more I liked the idea. So I asked NE (among a number of other candidates) a question that I considered fairly important in who I personally want to vote for. After I asked it, I realized I had posed a question that someone without previous functionary experience wouldn't have the full context or backstory to answer, so I posted a quite non-argumentative request for clarification - I didn't want to ask the same question to some people who were literally involved in the email thread that triggered the question while also asking it of people who weren't in a position to understand the full context or backstory. NE removed my request for clarification; I initially attempted to remove my entire question (as has been done on several candidates' pages) because I thought it not quite right to leave the question up when it wasn't a question he had the full backstory or context to. I removed my name and sig from the question afterwards in an effort to basically indicate that I thought I had fucked up in asking a question that I didn't provide enough context to to someone who didn't have the context from their past experience, particularly because NE's lack of previous functionary experience is explicitly one of the reasons why I have been considering voting for him. I think it's a bit silly that OID restored my signature when all its replacement really did was indicate that I thought I had fucked up, and not anything bad about NE.
I consider it kind of silly for the initial request for clarification to have been reverted by NE, and really silly that someone who wasn't NE reverted my own attempt to explain that I thought I had fucked up by asking a question to someone without the full context of why I was asking it, but I'll let NE decide what to do whenever he's around next. I fucked up by looking for a non-admin candidate and then asking them a question that required previous functionary experience to understand why I was posing the question, and think it's especially silly that anyone other than NE reverted my own attempt to explain in as few words as possible in small type that I thought I had fucked up in how I asked my own question in a way that was unfair to NE. Further explanation is on both my own Q&A page, and NE's usertalk page. Kevin Gorman ( talk) 09:31, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
A question was asked. It was based a rather thin premise -- that the impact of three things is indicative of one of those things. I took the time to look at the study quoted, and explain why the reasoning wasn't compelling. In reply to my query on my talk page, Kevin then synthesized that Oversight wouldn't suppress the information that provides the majority of the localization, date of birth and zip code, based on his interpretation of an email he received [29], which struck me as implausible. The policy states "Removal of non-public personal information, such as phone numbers, home addresses, workplaces or identities" (emphasis mine) so I was pretty sure date of birth or zip code would quality. As has been pointed out, I'm not even an admin, let alone an oversighter ... so I asked an Oversighter, and received the expected, common sense answer that dates of birth and zip codes have always be suppressed in her experience. I don't mind the question, so much. But honestly, the innuendo that the Oversight team isn't doing their job kinda pisses me off, which I try not to let happen in my wiki-life. Now, if the question is, do I think unwanted speculation about an editor's gender should at least be rev-deleted, I would say yes, not because any geolocate-by-gender argument but because simply it's no one's business if the editor doesn't want to specify. NE Ent 02:18, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
I don't think so; copy-pasting the referenced section (emphasis mine):
Information you provide us or information we collect from you that could be used to personally identify you. To be clear, while we do not necessarily collect all of the following types of information, we consider at least the following to be “personal information” if it is otherwise nonpublic and can be used to identify you:
(a) your real name, address, phone number, email address, password, identification number on government-issued ID, IP address, user-agent information, credit card number; (b) when associated with one of the items in subsection (a), any sensitive data such as date of birth, gender, sexual orientation, racial or ethnic origins, marital or familial status, medical conditions or disabilities, political affiliation, and religion; and (c) any of the items in subsections (a) or (b) when associated with your user account.
given the qualifiers "and can be used to identify you:" and "when associated with one of the items in subsection," my personal interpretation would gender is not necessarily oversightable. I claim to be neither an expert on WMF policy nor a lawyer, but my basic WP:AGF would be that oversight did the right thing lacking evidence to the contrary. In any event, if someone has a problem with actions of Roger Davies, they should discuss with Roger, and if they feel either a) WMF policies are being violated or b) someone is being put in danger, they should contact WMF. WMF does take community concerns seriously: there was a recent AN discussion involving apparent retention of checkuser beyond WMF guidelines, as written at the time, so I emailed WMF about it and they clarified the guidelines [30]. NE Ent 10:42, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
Basically, even without knowing the specifics of the situation, the answer you pretty much just gave - that gender is not necessarily oversightable, but that it depends on context (and can be oversightable in certain circumstances) was pretty much the sort of answer I was looking for. Kevin Gorman ( talk) 16:49, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for the replies. Dcs002 ( talk) 04:52, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
Knows what an 'emacs virgin' is. Correctly calls out its misuse. Can identify difference between STEM and non-STEM barriers to participation. Support. -- DHeyward ( talk) 05:41, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
This a serious process. Jokes are inappropriate. Skidding, jokes are appropriate always and everywhere, esp at funerals.
Re it's important that arbcom tasks be structured to make effective use of available volunteer time. Where work can be given back to the community, we all win: perceived power is decentralized, decisions can be made more transparently, and arbcom can concentrate on its core functions.
How will you structure tasks, reassign work to the community, and make decisions more transparent?
Thanks; LeoRomero ( talk) 01:42, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
Thanks @ Opabinia regalis: Your answers here and in your Nominations Q&A, are impressive. Maybe your relative inexperience with Arb will indeed be the boon that you predict it to be. That you are a Franklin among Watsons, also. And then there's that indisputable fact that women, as a species, are better than men. - TYA; LeoRomero ( talk) 21:37, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
linus torvalds created a community of programmers working on the linux kernel 1991. the community grew since then to nowadays 5'000 commits a month, 5 times more than 10 years ago. alone the linux kernel mailing list receives more than 20'000 messages a month, 3 times more than 10 years ago. innovative technologies are added to the kernel first from universities, individuals, companies, bearing the GPL. what do you see as the key success factors of that development, and what can you take off that into your work at wikipedia? -- ThurnerRupert ( talk) 15:28, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
ha, many thanks! did not know Linus on kernel management style, but i find it funny, and i was in a number of situations where i could have used various parts of it. -- ThurnerRupert ( talk) 19:38, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
We have a lot of really thoughtful and capable candidates to choose from, but your Q & A page and discussion page responses really stand out. I hope your real-life life allows you enough opportunity to use and share the skills you are offering to share with us. You better win! Dcs002 ( talk) 05:12, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
I posted a number of problems I saw with the recent mainspace creations (redirects and articles) by Rich Farmbrough, after which a back and forth followed and more problems arose (see Question from User:Fram). My conclusion was (and is) that "If you can't accurately judge evidence presented in cases, you can not be a useful ArbCom member". Further discussion about my points and his replies by uninvolved, more objective editors may be welcome, but perhaps belongs here more than on the questions page (although you are welcome there as well!). Fram ( talk) 08:45, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
Note The below two questions were moved here from Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2015/Candidates/Rich Farmbrough/Questions by @ Mike V: without any indication of this on either page. While the move is understandable, some indication of this would have been helpful. I have added notes on both pages. Fram ( talk) 07:58, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
is this the level of scrutiny you will bring to the evidence in cases brought to you as an ArbCom member? You are way too often wrong in what you write in articles, and you are more worryingly still seemingly incapable of looking at evidence or checking claims with any level of reliability. Basically, your answer to my remarks has made it totally clear that you are absolutely unsuited for a role as an ArbCom member, where half the job is checking evidence and dissecting claims. If you are either unable to check even your own contributions, or can't be trusted to give an honest answer and just make up stuff to defend yourself, then you can never be a trustworthy, good arbitrator (or admin for that matter). And that's not even going into the matter of your automated redirect generation, which you don't address. Don't bother, I guess things are more than clear now for anyone willing to see. Fram ( talk) 21:26, 19 November 2015 (UTC)
Thank you for your response, though I'm not sure this in meant to be an interview. You started your first TLDR with the claim that I "may gain adminship through this election" - clearly false. You claimed that the redirects you listed were "random" - also clearly false. And so forth. I assume these were mistakes, which we all make. You prefer to see deception if you disagree with what I say. That's your prerogative I suppose. The fact is you went looking for errors, and found a couple of typos. You then (as you have before) implied that I am lying - about Zerby Denby and Calcium chlooide dihydrate and probably other things, despite the fact that I treated your issues in good faith. I'm not surprised to see this WP:BATTLEGROUND mentality continuing after your Wikibreak, though I am disappointed. If you wish to discuss any of these content matters on my talk page, civilly, you will be most welcome, as I have told you many times before. |
Thank you for your extremely long response. Since I have been around the block with you on previous occasions, I am aware that you are capable of keeping this discussion going for many years. Therefore I will address three of your remaining claims here, simply to establish that a significant proportion of them are wrong. After that I will address no more claims about content here, only substantive questions, that are not thinly veiled, or unveiled, attacks. The invitation to discuss content and indeed any other concerns on my talk page remains open. · The status of Say's and Morris's membership is documented in the membership lists of the Academy. As you say above "you could have searched for it of course", so I am surprised to see you complain. · Here is photographic evidence for Zerby Denby. ![]() · And here is photographic evidence for Calcium chlooide dihydrate. ![]() Now, presumably before writing your first screed you were extremely careful to ensure that all your facts were straight. Yet a good proportion were wrong, either because you were assuming bad faith, or for other reasons. When you list of "errors" is full of errors itself (there are plenty more) it is not convincing evidence of anything - except that we all make mistakes - even you. As far as qualification for the role, I think I have listened to what you have to say, have responded calmly and neutrally, despite your history, and exhibited extreme patience, which I understand is a helpful quality in an Arbitrator. |
For those of you still believing that Rich Farmbrough is a good, conscientious content editor, let me present his edits for Portal:Trinidad and Tobago/On this day from the last few days.
These were all one line entries: of the 9 creations, 1 is empty, 3 were correct, 3 had errors and 2 were completely wrong (resulting in again empty pages). That's a quite dismal result.
Mind you, this is not just one bad day. Before this batch of creations, his latest was Portal:Trinidad and Tobago/On this day/May 21 from early September. You guessed it, it was incorrect as well, the one entry on it had the wrong year of birth. Should people filling Wikipedia with wrong information in so many of their edits (and which such a chequered history in general) really become the ones that are the ultimate authority on Wikipedia disputes? If you are so sloppy in what is the core business of Wikipedia (providing correct information), then how are you supposed to be correct in checking evidence and claims people make in disputes? Never mind the question what you are actually doing editing Wikipedia in the first place. Fram ( talk) 08:45, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
Dear User:Fram. I have noticed that you are presenting the creation of Creating Stephen Colbert at the 2006 White House Correspondents as a shameful misdeed, that will tarnish the reputation of any Candidate to an Arbcom seat. Could you elaborate further ? Pldx1 ( talk) 18:44, 26 November 2015 (UTC)
linus torvalds created a community of programmers working on the linux kernel 1991. the community grew since then to nowadays 5'000 commits a month, 5 times more than 10 years ago. alone the linux kernel mailing list receives more than 20'000 messages a month, 3 times more than 10 years ago. innovative technologies are added to the kernel first from universities, individuals, companies, bearing the GPL. what do you see as the key success factors of that development, and what can you take off that into your work at wikipedia? -- ThurnerRupert ( talk) 15:28, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
This is a positive step, if (as is so often claimed) arbs are overworked. Indeed I suggested something similar. All the best:
Rich
Farmbrough, 03:04, 14 November 2015 (UTC).
linus torvalds created a community of programmers working on the linux kernel 1991. the community grew since then to nowadays 5'000 commits a month, 5 times more than 10 years ago. alone the linux kernel mailing list receives more than 20'000 messages a month, 3 times more than 10 years ago. innovative technologies are added to the kernel first from universities, individuals, companies, bearing the GPL. what do you see as the key success factors of that development, and what can you take off that into your work at wikipedia? -- ThurnerRupert ( talk) 15:28, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
linus torvalds created a community of programmers working on the linux kernel 1991. the community grew since then to nowadays 5'000 commits a month, 5 times more than 10 years ago. alone the linux kernel mailing list receives more than 20'000 messages a month, 3 times more than 10 years ago. innovative technologies are added to the kernel first from universities, individuals, companies, bearing the GPL. what do you see as the key success factors of that development, and what can you take off that into your work at wikipedia? -- ThurnerRupert ( talk) 15:27, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
![]() | These guides represent the thoughts of their authors. All individually written voter guides are eligible for inclusion.
|
2015
Arbitration Committee Elections
Status
This page collects the discussion pages for each of the candidates for the Arbitration Committee elections of December 2015. To read Candidate Statements and their Q&As during the Nomination process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2015/Candidates. To discuss the elections in general, see Wikipedia talk:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2015.
Please endeavor to remain calm and respectful at all times, even when dealing with people you disagree with or candidates you do not support.
Hi @ Callanecc: Really like your upbeat tone, thanks for that, as well as your service.
Thanks; LeoRomero ( talk) 01:13, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
Thanks @ Callanecc: I went a little cross-eyed over your insider terms, and did read the internal clerk procedure you recommended, so now my eyes are permanently crossed. I don't know which will serve Wikipedia better, your expertise or your commitment to service, but I'm betting on both. - LeoRomero ( talk) 18:15, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
I'm pleased to see Callanecc running. He/she seems to have his/her head screwed on. Deb ( talk) 13:37, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
linus torvalds created a community of programmers working on the linux kernel 1991. the community grew since then to nowadays 5'000 commits a month, 5 times more than 10 years ago. alone the linux kernel mailing list receives more than 20'000 messages a month, 3 times more than 10 years ago. innovative technologies are added to the kernel first from universities, individuals, companies, bearing the GPL. what do you see as the key success factors of that development, and what can you take off that into your work at wikipedia? -- ThurnerRupert ( talk) 15:28, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
linus torvalds created a community of programmers working on the linux kernel 1991. the community grew since then to nowadays 5'000 commits a month, 5 times more than 10 years ago. alone the linux kernel mailing list receives more than 20'000 messages a month, 3 times more than 10 years ago. innovative technologies are added to the kernel first from universities, individuals, companies, bearing the GPL. what do you see as the key success factors of that development, and what can you take off that into your work at wikipedia? -- ThurnerRupert ( talk) 15:25, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
Sorry for the long post, but you touched a nerve.
"If we restrict arb cases to socking, edit-warring and incivility we are leaving wikipedia wide open to organised assaults by parties seeking to influence content (i.e. we're screwed)." You've got my vote because of this. I agree that ArbCom needs to focus more on big-picture issues that give guidance, set precedents, and work out the gray areas, accepting cases based on their potential impact across all of WP, not just the experience of a few editors, or a small set of articles. Right now it seems that the editor with the most time to spare and who shouts the loudest determines our content, and ArbCom can never keep up with that. We need better guidance on the ground, and we need to have a culture of following that guidance. Right now there is an acronym to support any viewpoint anyone wants to push, and anyone who ventures into editing articles of a new subject can find a hostile reception if they are not already indoctrinated into the absurdly different cultures we have for editing different article types by different standards. There is nothing systematic about the way we go about creating and expanding articles, or like you alluded to, how we use sources.
When ArbCom finds someone has been edit warring and sanctions them, how does that help the rest of us? We already know we shouldn't edit war and that we might face sanctions if we do. Yeah, we need arbitration and an enforcement mechanism, but if ArbCom determines a certain kind of behavior shouldn't be considered edit warring, or that another kind should be, that's much more important. That affects all of us. In the American legal system, appellate courts don't address findings of fact, only findings of law. (Juries find facts.) In ArbCom terms, how do policies apply in this type of case? Are policies being applied fairly? Are current policies adequate? Is the system of disseminating policies to editors adequate? What chance does the average editor have of understanding fundamental policies and therefore noticing policy violations by parties seeking to influence our content for their gain? It's madly inconsistent at the ground level. (e.g., In disaster articles, the source with the highest death toll seems to be the one we go with.)
But how would you make that work? The alleged sockpuppets and edit warriors need their fair hearing. It would seem to mean either restructuring ANI or adding another level of binding dispute resolution between ANI & ArbCom. Dcs002 ( talk) 07:20, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
linus torvalds created a community of programmers working on the linux kernel 1991. the community grew since then to nowadays 5'000 commits a month, 5 times more than 10 years ago. alone the linux kernel mailing list receives more than 20'000 messages a month, 3 times more than 10 years ago. innovative technologies are added to the kernel first from universities, individuals, companies, bearing the GPL. what do you see as the key success factors of that development, and what can you take off that into your work at wikipedia? -- ThurnerRupert ( talk) 15:25, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
Direct experience has shown Gamaliel doesn't have the temperament, discipline, competence, or fair mindedness for such an important post, and it's alarming that he's this close to getting it. It's bad enough that he allows his strong political opinions to color his editing in inappropriate ways, but more importantly he's abused his admin status, he's cited dubious policy rationales that at best betray a misunderstanding, and at times his behavior has been downright trollish. Just last year he was involved in an extended content/edit war on the America: Imagine the World Without Her movie board.
Edit warring: [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8], [9], [10], [11], [12], [13],
The community ultimately rejected his argument in this dispute in multiple RFCs. During this dispute, in which he was undeniably heavily involved, he at least once used his admin powers to erase an opposing editor's edit summary (August 19, 2014 17:11
[14]; not discovered until weeks later, when he admitted it under questioning by another editor in the discussion linked below). He also sometimes replied to serious, on topic posts with large, sophomoric pictures (e.g. scroll to bottom -
[15],
[16],
[17]) or linked to a youtube video as his edit summary (
[18]), which did nothing but enhance disruption in an already contentious dispute. Here's a sample of the personal invective he spewed on the talk page in this discussion:
"You people are ridiculous."
"It has an odious reputation amongst everyone not in the wingnut bubble"
"You have consistently and perhaps purposefully missed the point."
"For added hilarity and accuracy, I imagined you saying this stamping your feet."
"I'm going to start calling you Scarecrow because you love the straw man so much. My primary argument is "unconvincing" because you have no idea what it is. I have to keep repeating it for you so much I should just create a template for it."
"This shit is exactly why dealing with you is so unpleasant, because any attempt to collaborate or engage with you is met with a punch in the dick….. Instead I'm on the receiving end of months-long harangues about someone's low traffic blog and a partisan shit sewer. Fuck this noise, go argue with your mirror."
"I'm beginning to think you are some sort of performance art project."
"Why are you acting like a jackass?"
"It's been a very long edit conflict here, and we all have had moments where we've been less than perfect, but you are the only one standing in a pile of your own bullshit and insisting that you smell absolutely delicious."
"The SPA who is the chief proponent of including Brietbart"
"This SPA should have been topic banned months ago. It's long past time to bring this to ANI."
"And despite your repeated farcical lie that I haven't identified what is in dispute,"
"It's clear this temper tantrum is a deliberate strategy of yours to obfuscate that issue."
"Is something wrong with your brain?"
(sic)
Despite our personal, extended, adversarial involvement just months earlier, this past September Gamaliel was the first admin to reply to a malformed, tit for tat DS report against me by an editor I had just reported to the edit warring board, one that contained not a single evidence diff of any of my posts or edits or even a coherent accusation against me. It was a report that should have been immediately deleted, but instead he kept it alive, prodded the accuser to provide evidence (she never did), and in subsequent comments proceeded to both ignore evidence I posted against her (for which multiple posters corrected him, not that he acknowledged it) and even hinted that some action against me might be warranted for alleged POV editing, despite not a single diff of my editing having been presented. At that point I was forced to ask him to recuse himself, generously only providing some broad outlines of our past interaction (and a later offer to delete it all if he would delete his comments about me). He did recuse himself, claiming he hadn't previously recognized my screenname, but did so with a lengthy, snarky, and venomous paragraph full of personal attacks like I "should not be editing any Wikipedia article at all, much less one of our most important ones, nor should he be allowed to use a computer without adult supervision", "belligerent SPA", and accused me of "deceptiveness", among other things. [21] Another editor called his recusal "one of the pettiest actions I have seen by an "un-involved" admin", but he never deleted or even struck through it. Despite that poisoned well, after he recused himself ultimately no action was taken against me in the DS case.
The attacks by Gamaliel against me and other editors through all this were invariably false (the easily debunkable "SPA" charge was especially egregious, as that tag basically exists to imply that someone is a paid or COI editor on a particular topic, and the "Who not to tag (SPA tagging guidelines)" make it clear I'm not even close to an SPA, so he was apparently just bitter and trolling in a failed to attempt to marginalize and discredit an editor with whom he disagreed), but since none of us are running for office it's not worth getting into those details.
Gamaliel's behavior has been reprehensible and isn't that of someone who is fit to be entrusted with Arbcom power. Everyone makes mistakes, and Gamaliel vaguely alluded to past blemishes on his own record in his statement, but I've seen no evidence that he sees anything wrong with his specific actions laid out here, nor that they wouldn't continue. I've seen long time admins/Arbcom members who are unfailingly polite, reasonable, and generally avoid controversies, especially political ones. Gamaliel is the opposite of that. I'll be happy to engage in a civil conversation with him about this if he wants, but right now I see no reason why I or anyone else should have confidence that he would be a fair judge of other editors. VictorD7 ( talk) 01:33, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
linus torvalds created a community of programmers working on the linux kernel 1991. the community grew since then to nowadays 5'000 commits a month, 5 times more than 10 years ago. alone the linux kernel mailing list receives more than 20'000 messages a month, 3 times more than 10 years ago. innovative technologies are added to the kernel first from universities, individuals, companies, bearing the GPL. what do you see as the key success factors of that development, and what can you take off that into your work at wikipedia? -- ThurnerRupert ( talk) 15:25, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
Hello. Your experience and priorities seem valuable and I would likely vote for you. However, there is something to be said about your ID name. It does not inspire the image of an objective mediator and it brings about images of an edit warrior and despotism. My 2 cents. Cheers, BatteryIncluded ( talk) 16:59, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
Hi @ GorillaWarfare: Just 3 questions
Thanks; LeoRomero ( talk) 02:10, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
On your page, you link to the article for The Satanic Bible, the LeVayan Satanist text. I understand that you consider it an example of a "Good article", but I think you'll agree that it's a rather controversial choice. Do you endorse the group and its beliefs, and if so, how can people expect you to be neutral in arbitrations of a religious nature when you belong (or at least are openly sympathetic) to what is essentially a parody religion founded by and consisting of Atheists that have been known to use Satanic imagery and other means to intentionally mock those who believe in a higher power? - TBustah ( talk) 17:53, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
linus torvalds created a community of programmers working on the linux kernel 1991. the community grew since then to nowadays 5'000 commits a month, 5 times more than 10 years ago. alone the linux kernel mailing list receives more than 20'000 messages a month, 3 times more than 10 years ago. innovative technologies are added to the kernel first from universities, individuals, companies, bearing the GPL. what do you see as the key success factors of that development, and what can you take off that into your work at wikipedia? -- ThurnerRupert ( talk) 15:26, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
Unfortunately I cannot support this candidate for four reasons. The candidate was previously desysopped back in February 2012. At good articles on the instructions page it states, "an impartial reviewer to assess" but when I went to look at one of the good articles listed on the candidates user page, I noticed the GA nomination was reviewed by a fellow member of the Military History WikiProject. At present, they are both Coordinators at the Military History WikiProject. I assumed this to be a one off incident but quickly discovered another GA listed on the user page of the candidate whereby another Military History Coordinator reviewed their nomination and approved the article to GA. While I don't necessarily doubt both articles are GA worthy, I do not agree with this practice to which the candidate is a willing participant.
In regards to the question I asked of the candidate, I specifically to asked "for their interpretation", and they provided me with a summary of the history and opinions of others without stating their own. I expect members of the Arbitration Committee to be direct and articulate their opinions in the first person and clearly when asked. I do assume that by leaving out certain parts of the discussion they indirectly stated their support for a position but by leaving things open to loose interpretations and guessing, it isn't a strong quality for a candidate. Lastly, I do acknowledge that I have personal reasons for opposing. The accusations by the candidate, stated indirectly by giving it weight in their statement and choosing to outline their answer in the third person, that voting stacking was committed by the party that brought up the concern is unsubstantiated. I expect Arbitrators to carefully weight both sides and work in good faith which is seemingly lacking and absent in the very least in assessing that conversation. I understand their allegiances to their group but I would further expect them to otherwise recuse themselves as they were involved if they did not want to explain their personal opinions. I have the upmost respect for this candidates tenure as a seasoned and skilled writer and organizer, so I still wish them well in the election, but I fundamentally do not think they have the experience to arbitrate cases. Mkdw talk 04:01, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
linus torvalds created a community of programmers working on the linux kernel 1991. the community grew since then to nowadays 5'000 commits a month, 5 times more than 10 years ago. alone the linux kernel mailing list receives more than 20'000 messages a month, 3 times more than 10 years ago. innovative technologies are added to the kernel first from universities, individuals, companies, bearing the GPL. what do you see as the key success factors of that development, and what can you take off that into your work at wikipedia? -- ThurnerRupert ( talk) 15:28, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
In your statement you claim to have made a huge number of edits in about 1 year. This over 150 edits per day, obviously due to some automation. How many non-trivial edits have you performed? neffk ( talk)
I stopped editing on Wikipedia because of this person. He is corrupt. He deletes anything that goes against his personal values. It's ironic that he should be eligible for this committee. It's like nobody can touch him. I refuse to be a part of Wikipedia ever again because of him and people like him. Have a look at his record and it becomes very obvious what he's all about. He's great at pulling the wool over people's eyes, but he remains an example of the kind of corruption that the founder of Wikipedia was complaining about in the media a few months ago. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 197.89.182.143 ( talk) 14:22, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
The bias and uncompromising nature of the candidate is obvious to anyone who has interacted with him. He refuses to accept any sourcing for articles on subjects he dislikes, yet contributes to unsourced articles on other subjects. His incivility has driven off many contributors. Those who have left Wikipedia due to editors like this are not going to do your work for you. The candidate's history is all there. Look now, or learn later. 2600:1012:B12D:7826:E8B3:3950:8A20:2CBB ( talk) 00:53, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
Hi @ Hullaballoo Wolfowitz:
Thanks; LeoRomero ( talk) 01:00, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
linus torvalds created a community of programmers working on the linux kernel 1991. the community grew since then to nowadays 5'000 commits a month, 5 times more than 10 years ago. alone the linux kernel mailing list receives more than 20'000 messages a month, 3 times more than 10 years ago. innovative technologies are added to the kernel first from universities, individuals, companies, bearing the GPL. what do you see as the key success factors of that development, and what can you take off that into your work at wikipedia? -- ThurnerRupert ( talk) 15:28, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
Hi @ Keilana: Thanks for your work on diversity, systemic bias, STEAM and NIOSH.
Re ArbCom has become less and less effective in actually solving the problems faced by Wikipedia’s regular editors, and I think that my experience in facilitating collaboration and my problem solving skills can help make the arbitration process both more effective and more useful to the community.
What are the top obstacles to ArbCom doing its job well, and what will you do about them?
Thanks; LeoRomero ( talk) 01:31, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
Thanks @ Keilana: I think Wikipedia will get better thanks to you and your talents (esp as EMT, if only you could administer remotely). Browsed your Q&A, liked how you ran it. Suggest you post an abstract on this main discussion page. - TYA; LeoRomero ( talk) 19:00, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
Hi,Keilana, I want to ask you how you would best perform for this task, what are your intentions and strategies. best wihses--
Jogi 007 ( talk) 07:35, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
linus torvalds created a community of programmers working on the linux kernel 1991. the community grew since then to nowadays 5'000 commits a month, 5 times more than 10 years ago. alone the linux kernel mailing list receives more than 20'000 messages a month, 3 times more than 10 years ago. innovative technologies are added to the kernel first from universities, individuals, companies, bearing the GPL. what do you see as the key success factors of that development, and what can you take off that into your work at wikipedia? -- ThurnerRupert ( talk) 15:28, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
linus torvalds created a community of programmers working on the linux kernel 1991. the community grew since then to nowadays 5'000 commits a month, 5 times more than 10 years ago. alone the linux kernel mailing list receives more than 20'000 messages a month, 3 times more than 10 years ago. innovative technologies are added to the kernel first from universities, individuals, companies, bearing the GPL. what do you see as the key success factors of that development, and what can you take off that into your work at wikipedia? -- ThurnerRupert ( talk) 15:28, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
linus torvalds created a community of programmers working on the linux kernel 1991. the community grew since then to nowadays 5'000 commits a month, 5 times more than 10 years ago. alone the linux kernel mailing list receives more than 20'000 messages a month, 3 times more than 10 years ago. innovative technologies are added to the kernel first from universities, individuals, companies, bearing the GPL. what do you see as the key success factors of that development, and what can you take off that into your work at wikipedia? -- ThurnerRupert ( talk) 15:28, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
I was disturbed by the candidate User:Kevin Gorman using the Wikipedia:Wikipedia Weekly facebook group to attack user:Roger Davies about his position on Overight of gender. For future reference, the link was https://www.facebook.com/groups/wikipediaweekly/permalink/921760971205068/ . That link now shows "This post has been removed or could not be loaded." John Vandenberg ( chat) 22:22, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
Now that our respected editor has passed on, is he still considered a candidate? 29 November 2016 MVD 13:47, 29 November 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by MichaelVernonDavis ( talk • contribs)
linus torvalds created a community of programmers working on the linux kernel 1991. the community grew since then to nowadays 5'000 commits a month, 5 times more than 10 years ago. alone the linux kernel mailing list receives more than 20'000 messages a month, 3 times more than 10 years ago. innovative technologies are added to the kernel first from universities, individuals, companies, bearing the GPL. what do you see as the key success factors of that development, and what can you take off that into your work at wikipedia? -- ThurnerRupert ( talk) 15:28, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
This [23], this [24], this [25], this [26] and this [27] are recent examples of the candidate being disgruntled since launching his campaign only a week ago. In particular accusations of attempting to derail a candidate’s election seem very wide of the mark.
If this level of “complaining about one’s lot” was in front of the community in an RfA or RfB the candidate could be considered by some as regretting the transclusion. A candidate for the most senior elected position has to be more enthusiastic. We are not election Mr Speaker who has to be dragged to the chair. Complaining about questions, questioners and discussing withdrawing at the drop of a hat before or even after the event does not demonstrate commitment.
Our own article on the subject of stonewalling is neutral in describing such behaviour as neither good or bad - simply a strategy to present a selection of information a person is willing to give or withhold in order to protect one's image. However, when there is a detailed process to assist in a large scale elections, failing to answer questions carries an obvious risk. Also, simply referring to a nomination statement for answers when the NS is devoid of comment on the matter requested is, to say the least, unhelpful.
“If you have read my nomination statement, I'm sure you will understand and will be able to rest assured that as an Arbcom member, I would press for the severest sanctions for anyone who comes to a page with blatant lies, innuendo, veiled PA, and issues taken deliberately out of context to discredit a fellow editor or admin.” has been cut & pasted 7 times in response to a series of questions.
For disclosure, there is enmity between us stemming from a simple query I raised on his TP 4 years ago which was met with unnecessary hostility for which Kudpung apologised. Things have not improved and we have disputed a couple of RfA matters. Leaky Caldron 20:32, 19 November 2015 (UTC)
Hi @ Kudpung: Thanks for contributing to Wikipedia in so many ways. Could you please clarify what you mean by:
- It's very hard work and time consuming for absolutely no reward whatsoever (a bit like being an admin only much, much worse), and it takes one away from the very reason one joined Wikipedia for.
- Less than 10. You'll probably discover them on the question page.
- Yes, of course I did.
Thanks; LeoRomero ( talk) 00:35, 24 November 2015 (UTC
- is there any reason you didn['t follow the instructions and put these questions on the question page? -- Kudpung กุดผึ้ง ( talk) 09:44, 25 November 2015 (UTC))
The only time I came in contact with this person was at ANI, and got a bad first impression. For whatever reason Kudpung decided it was okay to bring up my age when it came to editing. [28] To find this one out he had to have gone all the way back in time to the start of my talk-page, I had removed this bit of info as I thought it was too revealing. The point is my opinion didn't matter on material I might or might not have wanted to keep to myself. I had pretty much put the matter behind me until I saw Kudpung's name pop up as a candidate for arbcom. What I hope for this candidate is that they think more before bringing up things editors may or may not want known rather than just assuming it is perfectly okay. - Knowledgekid87 ( talk) 01:55, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
Having fully assessed everything you have said, the subtle and not so subtle indications you vent together with your highly influencing senior pedagogic background, you treat WP like some global, virtual Dotheboys Hall. If that is your schtick, good look, we'll need it. Someone point me to the retired banner. Thanks by the way for removing your absured public accusation that I had been blocked 12 times. "Your ability to do accurate research must improve. D- on your school report." Leaky Caldron 13:16, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
linus torvalds created a community of programmers working on the linux kernel 1991. the community grew since then to nowadays 5'000 commits a month, 5 times more than 10 years ago. alone the linux kernel mailing list receives more than 20'000 messages a month, 3 times more than 10 years ago. innovative technologies are added to the kernel first from universities, individuals, companies, bearing the GPL. what do you see as the key success factors of that development, and what can you take off that into your work at wikipedia? -- ThurnerRupert ( talk) 15:28, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
I have moved this comment here from Kudpung's Questions page as the sections on such pages are reserved for the specific user asking questions and the candidate answering them. THEowner of a l l 20:56, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
Comment: I understand why moving the above comment here was appropriate, but I want to state clearly that, although my name is used in this subsection heading, I do not wish to be associated with that comment, in fact or in spirit. I do not endorse such sarcastic personal attacks, regardless of whether I intend to vote for the candidate. Dcs002 ( talk) 23:49, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
linus torvalds created a community of programmers working on the linux kernel 1991. the community grew since then to nowadays 5'000 commits a month, 5 times more than 10 years ago. alone the linux kernel mailing list receives more than 20'000 messages a month, 3 times more than 10 years ago. innovative technologies are added to the kernel first from universities, individuals, companies, bearing the GPL. what do you see as the key success factors of that development, and what can you take off that into your work at wikipedia? -- ThurnerRupert ( talk) 15:28, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
linus torvalds created a community of programmers working on the linux kernel 1991. the community grew since then to nowadays 5'000 commits a month, 5 times more than 10 years ago. alone the linux kernel mailing list receives more than 20'000 messages a month, 3 times more than 10 years ago. innovative technologies are added to the kernel first from universities, individuals, companies, bearing the GPL. what do you see as the key success factors of that development, and what can you take off that into your work at wikipedia? -- ThurnerRupert ( talk) 15:28, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
Mark Bernstein attempted to get me banned from Wikipedia because of my behavior. I vote against his adminship. 2602:306:8B40:CC20:6466:4F15:BFBB:ADCA ( talk) 21:45, 10 November 2015 (UTC)
I think this user should be banned from Wikipedia for his leftist, SJW and anti-free speech mindset. He is a fanger to Wikipedia and unfit for any arbcom or even admin tasks. He is a frequent pain in the rear for editors who want to add sourced material and a user who often tries to keep articles such as gamergate completely NOT npov. Banning him from Wikipedia has already been done, yet he keeps coming back because of his leftist SJW friends. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.90.245.209 ( talk) 16:57, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
I don't object to anonymity. IPs are people too. However, for the benefit of uninvolved electors, accusations of this kind should be sourced, preferably in the form of diffs. Unsubstantiated scuttlebutt can and will be ignored. De Guerre ( talk) 01:31, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
STRONG SUPPORT: I strongly endorse Mark Bernstein's candidacy for ArbCom. He is a deep thinker is deeply knowledgeable about hypertextuality. He is a hard worker, and is fair and principled. Pleasantville ( talk) 01:41, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
ENDORSE: I voted for you, Mark. Even though I am sympathetic to the GamerGators and generally loathe SJWs, I know that there should be balance on ArbCom. That means that there will be leftists. If we need to have leftist SJWs I would rather have you than someone totally irrational or high-strung. You are not irrational, you are not high-strung. I'm just happy that you're willing to be on ArbCom, as we could have a lot worse than you. I am not being sarcastic. I did vote for you. Thank you for your service in general. -- FeralOink ( talk) 03:57, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
Comments/questions As far as I can tell, this candidate seems to be driven by one very important issue. But that's just one issue. What if that issue doesn't come up in any ArbCom cases during the next term? Has he pre-judged any cases that are pending? He has a rather elaborate and hmm... I'll say floral writing style that makes me not really want to read. Does this candidate work well with those of opposing views, or will he muck things up with endless, righteous, stubborn argument? We need strong voices on this one issue, but I have seen no sign of neutrality before the evidence. All I see is advocacy. We need that on this issue, but how will that make ArbCom a fair and open body? It's like WP's Supreme Court. I don't want Johnny Cochrane on the bench. I want him on the other side of the bench, arguing the cases.
If I sound like I'm just being critical, I am, but critical in the academic sense. I really want to understand this candidate, and if my comments are misguided, I would like to learn why. I would not be here wasting my time if I weren't interested. Dcs002 ( talk) 07:50, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
STRONG SUPPORT AND MY VOTE, DESPITE NOT BEING AS MIFFED AT PR: I strongly support Mark, however I'm not as miffed as he is about PR agencies on Wiki. I have nothing to do with them, but frankly, I think they add a lot of value to Wiki. For example, I'm the main creator of the List of Music Software Article, and I actually enjoy when agencies and shills add links to new software. It keeps us more Amazon like, and gives researchers options and choices, buyer beware or not. In fact, I even like Amazon links to books as much as ISBNs that you have to wade through. I know this is a much different view than Mark's and in fact most other editors, and I wanted to strongly voice my support despite this major difference of opinion. I respect his strong views on care about living persons also, even though some of his edits have a fine enough sorting algorithm to exclude some possibly worthy academics. Trade off acceptable for the good it does. All these candidates have trade offs, but Mark and Callanecc have the experience needed to fix Arb, and anyone burned by it after working their butts off on articles knows it NEEDS fixing. So, after all that, I happily show my hand: Mark is thumbs up because he knows how much this needs fixing, and has the experience, objectivity and passion to make it happen. Pdecalculus ( talk) 14:43, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
CAUTIOUSLY SUPPORT: Definitely passionate about the subjects he edits. Major plus for ArbCom, but it is prone to forgoing any alternates to come forward. If Mark is willing to keep his sarcastic writing style and humor + doesn't get into fights with other ArbCom editors then he's got my non-existent vote. (sorry, m8, I don't edit much so I'm not eligible, but I'd like to give my two cents for those who want it.)
Sethyre (
talk) 19:39, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
linus torvalds created a community of programmers working on the linux kernel 1991. the community grew since then to nowadays 5'000 commits a month, 5 times more than 10 years ago. alone the linux kernel mailing list receives more than 20'000 messages a month, 3 times more than 10 years ago. innovative technologies are added to the kernel first from universities, individuals, companies, bearing the GPL. what do you see as the key success factors of that development, and what can you take off that into your work at wikipedia? -- ThurnerRupert ( talk) 15:28, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
I have harshly criticized NE Ent once or twice. NE Ent is a fine, calm person who does not return fire. NE Ent would make a good arbitrator. Jehochman Talk 14:07, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
This edit suggests a bias in favour of a certain editor, and against proper enforcement of the civility policy. It's true that the "heinously misogynistic" (note hyperbolic language) US usage is not prevalent in the UK and Australia and New Zealand, however the "moderate UK insult" is actually very strong and will probably get your teeth knocked out if you use it on a random person in the pub. It's probably the only word you still can't say on TV in these countries (I've heard "fuck" plenty of times on BBC programs). I suspect Ent knows all this, but for whatever reason is biased either in favour of Eric or against enforcement of normal decorum and civility. (For the record I have no personal beef with Eric and would happily collaborate with him on an article, however we tend not to edit in the same areas).
Also of concern is the preoccupation with other people's drama at the expense of encyclopedia building... no non-admin should have more edits to ANI than to main space. When not posting at various ANI threads, he's writing essays about civility, patronisingly telling people that " life is not fair" or trying to invent his own wikipedia memes. MaxBrowne ( talk) 10:53, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
When formulating my evidence section for AE2, I was repeatedly struck by the absurdity of having to justify an insult. In Wikipedia-as-it-should-be, it would not matter which (UK/US) connotation was meant. But in a world where anger, aggression, vehemence, disparagement, snark, sarcasm, snideness, harassment, demeaning, name calling, profanity, punishment, revenge, payback, keeping score, arrogance, put downs, AGF is not a suicide pact, Facepalm, seriously? derision, sigh, troll, wtf, ffs, narcissist, fuck off is common, it actually becomes important, depressingly, to distinguish between run of the mill insult and outlier insult.
NE Ent 13:39, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
I understand the offensiveness, and, during the original 2011 episode, with Eric's consent redacted the usage. As I said at the time It'll either blow over (achieving nothing) or blow up (causing lots of churn and angst and in the end achieve nothing) If Wikipedia was truly focused on dispute resolution, rather than punishment, it could have ended there, instead of still churning over it four years later. NE Ent 13:39, 22 November 2015 (UTC)
As is obvious from the history of NE Ent's talk page, as well as my own Q&A page, I'm trying to finalize the candidates I want to support. I was earlier asked about the idea of a non-admin becoming an arbitrator, and the more I thought about it, the more I liked the idea. So I asked NE (among a number of other candidates) a question that I considered fairly important in who I personally want to vote for. After I asked it, I realized I had posed a question that someone without previous functionary experience wouldn't have the full context or backstory to answer, so I posted a quite non-argumentative request for clarification - I didn't want to ask the same question to some people who were literally involved in the email thread that triggered the question while also asking it of people who weren't in a position to understand the full context or backstory. NE removed my request for clarification; I initially attempted to remove my entire question (as has been done on several candidates' pages) because I thought it not quite right to leave the question up when it wasn't a question he had the full backstory or context to. I removed my name and sig from the question afterwards in an effort to basically indicate that I thought I had fucked up in asking a question that I didn't provide enough context to to someone who didn't have the context from their past experience, particularly because NE's lack of previous functionary experience is explicitly one of the reasons why I have been considering voting for him. I think it's a bit silly that OID restored my signature when all its replacement really did was indicate that I thought I had fucked up, and not anything bad about NE.
I consider it kind of silly for the initial request for clarification to have been reverted by NE, and really silly that someone who wasn't NE reverted my own attempt to explain that I thought I had fucked up by asking a question to someone without the full context of why I was asking it, but I'll let NE decide what to do whenever he's around next. I fucked up by looking for a non-admin candidate and then asking them a question that required previous functionary experience to understand why I was posing the question, and think it's especially silly that anyone other than NE reverted my own attempt to explain in as few words as possible in small type that I thought I had fucked up in how I asked my own question in a way that was unfair to NE. Further explanation is on both my own Q&A page, and NE's usertalk page. Kevin Gorman ( talk) 09:31, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
A question was asked. It was based a rather thin premise -- that the impact of three things is indicative of one of those things. I took the time to look at the study quoted, and explain why the reasoning wasn't compelling. In reply to my query on my talk page, Kevin then synthesized that Oversight wouldn't suppress the information that provides the majority of the localization, date of birth and zip code, based on his interpretation of an email he received [29], which struck me as implausible. The policy states "Removal of non-public personal information, such as phone numbers, home addresses, workplaces or identities" (emphasis mine) so I was pretty sure date of birth or zip code would quality. As has been pointed out, I'm not even an admin, let alone an oversighter ... so I asked an Oversighter, and received the expected, common sense answer that dates of birth and zip codes have always be suppressed in her experience. I don't mind the question, so much. But honestly, the innuendo that the Oversight team isn't doing their job kinda pisses me off, which I try not to let happen in my wiki-life. Now, if the question is, do I think unwanted speculation about an editor's gender should at least be rev-deleted, I would say yes, not because any geolocate-by-gender argument but because simply it's no one's business if the editor doesn't want to specify. NE Ent 02:18, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
I don't think so; copy-pasting the referenced section (emphasis mine):
Information you provide us or information we collect from you that could be used to personally identify you. To be clear, while we do not necessarily collect all of the following types of information, we consider at least the following to be “personal information” if it is otherwise nonpublic and can be used to identify you:
(a) your real name, address, phone number, email address, password, identification number on government-issued ID, IP address, user-agent information, credit card number; (b) when associated with one of the items in subsection (a), any sensitive data such as date of birth, gender, sexual orientation, racial or ethnic origins, marital or familial status, medical conditions or disabilities, political affiliation, and religion; and (c) any of the items in subsections (a) or (b) when associated with your user account.
given the qualifiers "and can be used to identify you:" and "when associated with one of the items in subsection," my personal interpretation would gender is not necessarily oversightable. I claim to be neither an expert on WMF policy nor a lawyer, but my basic WP:AGF would be that oversight did the right thing lacking evidence to the contrary. In any event, if someone has a problem with actions of Roger Davies, they should discuss with Roger, and if they feel either a) WMF policies are being violated or b) someone is being put in danger, they should contact WMF. WMF does take community concerns seriously: there was a recent AN discussion involving apparent retention of checkuser beyond WMF guidelines, as written at the time, so I emailed WMF about it and they clarified the guidelines [30]. NE Ent 10:42, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
Basically, even without knowing the specifics of the situation, the answer you pretty much just gave - that gender is not necessarily oversightable, but that it depends on context (and can be oversightable in certain circumstances) was pretty much the sort of answer I was looking for. Kevin Gorman ( talk) 16:49, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for the replies. Dcs002 ( talk) 04:52, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
Knows what an 'emacs virgin' is. Correctly calls out its misuse. Can identify difference between STEM and non-STEM barriers to participation. Support. -- DHeyward ( talk) 05:41, 17 November 2015 (UTC)
This a serious process. Jokes are inappropriate. Skidding, jokes are appropriate always and everywhere, esp at funerals.
Re it's important that arbcom tasks be structured to make effective use of available volunteer time. Where work can be given back to the community, we all win: perceived power is decentralized, decisions can be made more transparently, and arbcom can concentrate on its core functions.
How will you structure tasks, reassign work to the community, and make decisions more transparent?
Thanks; LeoRomero ( talk) 01:42, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
Thanks @ Opabinia regalis: Your answers here and in your Nominations Q&A, are impressive. Maybe your relative inexperience with Arb will indeed be the boon that you predict it to be. That you are a Franklin among Watsons, also. And then there's that indisputable fact that women, as a species, are better than men. - TYA; LeoRomero ( talk) 21:37, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
linus torvalds created a community of programmers working on the linux kernel 1991. the community grew since then to nowadays 5'000 commits a month, 5 times more than 10 years ago. alone the linux kernel mailing list receives more than 20'000 messages a month, 3 times more than 10 years ago. innovative technologies are added to the kernel first from universities, individuals, companies, bearing the GPL. what do you see as the key success factors of that development, and what can you take off that into your work at wikipedia? -- ThurnerRupert ( talk) 15:28, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
ha, many thanks! did not know Linus on kernel management style, but i find it funny, and i was in a number of situations where i could have used various parts of it. -- ThurnerRupert ( talk) 19:38, 6 December 2015 (UTC)
We have a lot of really thoughtful and capable candidates to choose from, but your Q & A page and discussion page responses really stand out. I hope your real-life life allows you enough opportunity to use and share the skills you are offering to share with us. You better win! Dcs002 ( talk) 05:12, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
I posted a number of problems I saw with the recent mainspace creations (redirects and articles) by Rich Farmbrough, after which a back and forth followed and more problems arose (see Question from User:Fram). My conclusion was (and is) that "If you can't accurately judge evidence presented in cases, you can not be a useful ArbCom member". Further discussion about my points and his replies by uninvolved, more objective editors may be welcome, but perhaps belongs here more than on the questions page (although you are welcome there as well!). Fram ( talk) 08:45, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
Note The below two questions were moved here from Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2015/Candidates/Rich Farmbrough/Questions by @ Mike V: without any indication of this on either page. While the move is understandable, some indication of this would have been helpful. I have added notes on both pages. Fram ( talk) 07:58, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
is this the level of scrutiny you will bring to the evidence in cases brought to you as an ArbCom member? You are way too often wrong in what you write in articles, and you are more worryingly still seemingly incapable of looking at evidence or checking claims with any level of reliability. Basically, your answer to my remarks has made it totally clear that you are absolutely unsuited for a role as an ArbCom member, where half the job is checking evidence and dissecting claims. If you are either unable to check even your own contributions, or can't be trusted to give an honest answer and just make up stuff to defend yourself, then you can never be a trustworthy, good arbitrator (or admin for that matter). And that's not even going into the matter of your automated redirect generation, which you don't address. Don't bother, I guess things are more than clear now for anyone willing to see. Fram ( talk) 21:26, 19 November 2015 (UTC)
Thank you for your response, though I'm not sure this in meant to be an interview. You started your first TLDR with the claim that I "may gain adminship through this election" - clearly false. You claimed that the redirects you listed were "random" - also clearly false. And so forth. I assume these were mistakes, which we all make. You prefer to see deception if you disagree with what I say. That's your prerogative I suppose. The fact is you went looking for errors, and found a couple of typos. You then (as you have before) implied that I am lying - about Zerby Denby and Calcium chlooide dihydrate and probably other things, despite the fact that I treated your issues in good faith. I'm not surprised to see this WP:BATTLEGROUND mentality continuing after your Wikibreak, though I am disappointed. If you wish to discuss any of these content matters on my talk page, civilly, you will be most welcome, as I have told you many times before. |
Thank you for your extremely long response. Since I have been around the block with you on previous occasions, I am aware that you are capable of keeping this discussion going for many years. Therefore I will address three of your remaining claims here, simply to establish that a significant proportion of them are wrong. After that I will address no more claims about content here, only substantive questions, that are not thinly veiled, or unveiled, attacks. The invitation to discuss content and indeed any other concerns on my talk page remains open. · The status of Say's and Morris's membership is documented in the membership lists of the Academy. As you say above "you could have searched for it of course", so I am surprised to see you complain. · Here is photographic evidence for Zerby Denby. ![]() · And here is photographic evidence for Calcium chlooide dihydrate. ![]() Now, presumably before writing your first screed you were extremely careful to ensure that all your facts were straight. Yet a good proportion were wrong, either because you were assuming bad faith, or for other reasons. When you list of "errors" is full of errors itself (there are plenty more) it is not convincing evidence of anything - except that we all make mistakes - even you. As far as qualification for the role, I think I have listened to what you have to say, have responded calmly and neutrally, despite your history, and exhibited extreme patience, which I understand is a helpful quality in an Arbitrator. |
For those of you still believing that Rich Farmbrough is a good, conscientious content editor, let me present his edits for Portal:Trinidad and Tobago/On this day from the last few days.
These were all one line entries: of the 9 creations, 1 is empty, 3 were correct, 3 had errors and 2 were completely wrong (resulting in again empty pages). That's a quite dismal result.
Mind you, this is not just one bad day. Before this batch of creations, his latest was Portal:Trinidad and Tobago/On this day/May 21 from early September. You guessed it, it was incorrect as well, the one entry on it had the wrong year of birth. Should people filling Wikipedia with wrong information in so many of their edits (and which such a chequered history in general) really become the ones that are the ultimate authority on Wikipedia disputes? If you are so sloppy in what is the core business of Wikipedia (providing correct information), then how are you supposed to be correct in checking evidence and claims people make in disputes? Never mind the question what you are actually doing editing Wikipedia in the first place. Fram ( talk) 08:45, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
Dear User:Fram. I have noticed that you are presenting the creation of Creating Stephen Colbert at the 2006 White House Correspondents as a shameful misdeed, that will tarnish the reputation of any Candidate to an Arbcom seat. Could you elaborate further ? Pldx1 ( talk) 18:44, 26 November 2015 (UTC)
linus torvalds created a community of programmers working on the linux kernel 1991. the community grew since then to nowadays 5'000 commits a month, 5 times more than 10 years ago. alone the linux kernel mailing list receives more than 20'000 messages a month, 3 times more than 10 years ago. innovative technologies are added to the kernel first from universities, individuals, companies, bearing the GPL. what do you see as the key success factors of that development, and what can you take off that into your work at wikipedia? -- ThurnerRupert ( talk) 15:28, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
This is a positive step, if (as is so often claimed) arbs are overworked. Indeed I suggested something similar. All the best:
Rich
Farmbrough, 03:04, 14 November 2015 (UTC).
linus torvalds created a community of programmers working on the linux kernel 1991. the community grew since then to nowadays 5'000 commits a month, 5 times more than 10 years ago. alone the linux kernel mailing list receives more than 20'000 messages a month, 3 times more than 10 years ago. innovative technologies are added to the kernel first from universities, individuals, companies, bearing the GPL. what do you see as the key success factors of that development, and what can you take off that into your work at wikipedia? -- ThurnerRupert ( talk) 15:28, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
linus torvalds created a community of programmers working on the linux kernel 1991. the community grew since then to nowadays 5'000 commits a month, 5 times more than 10 years ago. alone the linux kernel mailing list receives more than 20'000 messages a month, 3 times more than 10 years ago. innovative technologies are added to the kernel first from universities, individuals, companies, bearing the GPL. what do you see as the key success factors of that development, and what can you take off that into your work at wikipedia? -- ThurnerRupert ( talk) 15:27, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
![]() | These guides represent the thoughts of their authors. All individually written voter guides are eligible for inclusion.
|