This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

An editor has nominated Stage Deli, an article on which you have worked or that you created, for deletion. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also " What Wikipedia is not").

Your opinions on whether the article meets inclusion criteria and what should be done with the article are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Stage Deli and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~).

You may also edit the article during the discussion to improve it but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion debate. Thank you. BJBot ( talk) 21:05, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

On second thought, company products can't be deleted per CSD A7, only articles on people and organizations (as you've stated). Sorry about that, I've been gone from the wiki for a one year hiatus and I'm still a bit rusty on my policies. I should have know better...-- TBC !?! 23:03, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I haven't had a chance to write that yet. Thanks for reminding me. I'll do it tonight. I'll take a look at the other article and incorporate what makes sense. JoshuaZ ( talk) 21:15, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

There are multiple articles about the work of John Black Lee, who is, in fact, a prize-winning architect. I added one, to get things started, to a feature article in the NYT. I found it just by using google, and you could have done the same, had you looked first instead of prodding it without checking. Deletion is for articles that cannot be improved. DGG ( talk) 22:50, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

sorry if I sounded snappy about the prods. For car models, I agree trivial variations aren't notable and should be combined, and in those cases I propose a merge. But the one discussed above seemed to be a new one entirely DGG ( talk) 18:12, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Per your stated intent, I have closed this AfD as Nomination Withdrawn. Please revert me if I erred. Thanks, UltraExactZZ ^Claims ~ Evidence 21:52, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I were not aware of the discussion in talk page. I got confused why you were removing the links. As per the discussion, you are right. Otolemur crassicaudatus ( talk) 18:16, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm surprised to note that there are no satellite images or links for the Sydney Opera House; but consider Vaucluse, New South Wales. In this context, wouldn't you agree that an overview would help anyone better understand and appreciate the relationship of the harbor opening to Darling Point or the Domain, for example? The Google technology is so crisp that it's almost possible to "walk" from Vaucluse to Kings Cross ....

If the satellite images do serve a useful purpose in helping to orient the reader in this context, why would you construe the same strategy as somehow less applicable for an article about Osaka Castle? If I were less invested in current projects, I'd otherwise find time to create an external link to GoogleMap images as an important addition to the NSW articles mentioned above. When you have the time, would you consider elaborating on why these such links could be considered unwelcome? Or perhaps such links might be perceived as having oblique value at best? -- Tenmei ( talk) 20:08, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Is there something you want me to do, or a specific question? I didn't understand what you were trying to tell me. Shalom ( Hello • Peace) 22:11, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes I added the wikify tag especially because of the lead section, which:

• doesn't tell in the first sentence what the article is about
• doesn't follow the general formatting of a lead section (see WP:LEAD)

I added the expert tag because I feel the article would require a specialized researcher to expand it much further. I doubt google is going to help very much in this case. In fact, if there isn't enough literature on the subject, this article might fit better merged with Hugh Mercer. Queerudite ( talk) 14:05, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Hello Cari, I was just wondering what prompted you to add a "possibly not sufficiently notable" tag to the article on the The Handsome Family. I agree that there are several articles on this site which deal with some rather esoteric subjects the notability of which is far from obvious--the sheer volume of Pokemon-related articles, for instance, is truly astounding. But it seems to me that a musical group with a fifteen-year history and a rather broadly-situated fanbase certainly meets most people's standards of notability. Basically, I'm just wondering what criteria you use to make these decisions. Thanks. Buck Mulligan ( talk) 23:42, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi again. Thanks for your speedy reply. Yes, I see what you mean about sources relating to such things as concert tours and label promotion. I actually wasn't aware of the wikipedia guidelines for this stuff. It shouldn't be difficult for me to add some references to the article, though, since the Rolling Stone website gives them a fair bit of coverage. Thanks for your help! Buck Mulligan ( talk) 17:38, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Thank you very much for reverting that particularly charming comment added by a vandal from my userpage. Otolemur crassicaudatus ( talk) 15:29, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I tend to reserve "unreferenced" for articles that lack any form of verification at all. A lot of what is said in the article is patent from the journal website and self-reference can be adequate for uncontroversial facts. Particularly for young journals, it can be impossible to find references external to the journal itself, beyond the ISSN which, if valid, is an independent reference to the existence of the publication. There again, I'm not finding much from the ISSN in Google and I've never heard of Index Cupernicus. I will bring this example up at WP:Academic Journals; several members there have access to library catalogues. Regards, Espresso Addict ( talk) 18:36, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I've now brought it up at Academic Journals (see Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Academic_Journals#Journal_of_Medical_Sciences_Research). The project isn't especially active at the moment; there are few of us, and all have other commitments. It would, I think, be useful to come up with some guidelines as to what minimum notability standards are for journals, but we've been largely taking it case by case at AfD. Espresso Addict ( talk) 19:34, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

The only reference to a delete discussion is a non sequitor mention in the deletion of the article about the statoids.com website: Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Statoids Was there really a discussion about deleting the list article? If so, I see no evidence of it anywhere. Thanks for mentioning it to me, but it was deleted not long after your message. – BozoTheScary ( talk) 19:53, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

The confusing part was that it had nothing to do with the Statoids website other than containing the same word. The delete debate was exclusively about the Statoids website article. None of it other than the uncommented link to the list page had anything to do with the list page. The article may deserve deletion, but, as far as I can tell, there has been no deletion debate about the list article itself. I have no recollection of the content of the former list article, so I don't know what was in it for finding sources. I think that you should reinstate the article and create a new Afd entry for it so that it can be reasonably reviewed. Did you realize that the list article had nothing to do with Statoids.com? – BozoTheScary ( talk) 23:05, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

How about List of administrative division name changes? It's got references. It doesn't mention statoids. (Though, statoids.com is one of the references, sorry.) – BozoTheScary ( talk) 19:37, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

for assistance with this problem, see Wikipedia:WikiProject Academic Journals for the criteria and how we meet them. Even for a non academic journal, Ulrich's can give circulation and longevity. There's a surprising amount that can be looked for and said. All academic libraries have Ulrich's either in print or online or both. DGG ( talk) 01:18, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi there! I noticed that the afd tag that you use sometimes "doesn't come out." The link to the discussion doesn't link directly to the page, but to the edit version of the page. It's the fancy TW that you use, right? ;-) -- brew crewer (yada, yada) 05:17, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Oh, ok. This week is Spring Break for me. I was planning on catching up on the stuff that I'm behind due to my Wikiaddiction, but of course...........:-) -- brew crewer (yada, yada) 05:35, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

You have mail again.-- brew crewer (yada, yada) 01:04, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Please see my comments on Talk:Keren Tendler. Shalom ( Hello • Peace) 00:31, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

-- Pat Long ( talk) 00:46, 10 March 2008 (UTC)when people look back at my past it is personal I have gone thought this before and now you making me do it one moe time each time i post something it starts over this should be about Vulcan Energy Drink not the Beer company-- Pat Long ( talk) 00:46, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

... that not true it went up for DEL 2 min after the energy drink did--
Pat Long (
talk) 01:04, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Excuse me, I disagree with your dated prod tag on this article. Please read Wikipedia:Requested articles/Culture and fine arts#Fash. D-H to understand why I view this article as necessary and beyond a sum-of-parts (SOP). The article was not written with frivolous intent, so I am deleting your tag. :)-- Thecurran ( talk) 03:17, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

We have just started working on WikiProject D-FW. The templates are NOT working. We are trying to identify articles that are needed. This is one of them. There are only so many hours in a day and only two of us leading the revival of the project. A little mollusk ( talk) 04:08, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

replied at Talk:Dallas Country Club to keep it all in one place TRAVELLINGCARI ^{My story} _{Tell me yours} 04:15, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

If you had noticed I have put something at both the editors page and the article page - take care! Satu Suro 05:06, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

For your convenience: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Shane Casey (second nomination). Zetawoof_{( ζ)} 02:25, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks, didn't know the injunction had been lifted. TRAVELLINGCARI ^{My story} _{Tell me yours} 02:26, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Just happened a few hours ago. Zetawoof_{( ζ)} 03:39, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

I have removed the {{ prod}} tag from Integrated Media Association, which you proposed for deletion, because I think that this article should not be deleted from Wikipedia. I'm leaving this message here to notify you about it. If you still think the article should be deleted, please don't add the {{ prod}} template back to the article. Instead, feel free to list it at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion. Thanks! -- Atama ^chat 01:02, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Your AFD tag on IlliDell is malformed somehow; the link appears red. I can't seem to fix it. Lord Uniscorn ( talk) 06:46, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

An editor has nominated Spotsylvania County Public Schools, an article on which you have worked or that you created, for deletion. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also " What Wikipedia is not").

Your opinions on whether the article meets inclusion criteria and what should be done with the article are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Spotsylvania County Public Schools and please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes (~~~~).

You may also edit the article during the discussion to improve it but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion debate. Thank you. BJBot ( talk) 23:59, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

New York City Meetup Next: Sunday March 16th, Columbia University area Last: 1/13/2008 This box: view •  talk •

In the afternoon, we will hold a session dedicated to meta:Wikimedia New York City activities, and have salon-style group discussions on Wikipedia and the other Wikimedia projects (see the last meeting's minutes).

Well also make preparations for our exciting Wikipedia Takes Manhattan event, a free content photography contest for Columbia University students planned for Friday March 28 (about 2 weeks after our meeting).

In the evening, we'll share dinner and chat at a local restaurant, and (weather permitting) hold a late-night astronomy event at Columbia's telescopes.

You can add or remove your name from the New York City Meetups invite list at Wikipedia:Meetup/NYC/Invite list.

You're also invited to subscribe to the public Wikimedia New York City mailing list, which is a great way to receive timely updates.-- Pharos ( talk) 00:03, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Your page gets vandalized. You must be doing something important. My page only got vandalized once. ;-) -- brew crewer (yada, yada) 05:05, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, even if a prod is declined, a page can still be speedied without trouble if the speedy fits. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{( Broken clamshells• Otter chirps)} 17:03, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks a lot. Your senseless and baseless criticism of my wikipedia entry concerning IMPACT- Charlottesville has proven that wikipedia is not, in fact, a public encyclopedia that encourages everyone to contribute sensible, informative and interesting articles. I believe as an administrator you have a duty to engender an ethos of contribution, not lambast it with notable clauses when, in fact, I actually gave a serious of authentic sources that confirmed the articles notability. You spend way too much time on your computer and not enough in the real world and in short, are unworthy of such a position. I will immediately lodge a complaint with whatever authorities hold you responsible, and if that does not work, your fellow peers. Community service ( talk) 17:57, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

My first Barnstar and its teh funny one and all. Am really quite made up with that. Thanks. Plutonium27 ( talk) 03:16, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi. Sorry that I didn't answer your question, it must've slipped through the cracks. :X I've replied there. Thanks for the heads up. Keilana| ^{Parlez ici} 03:46, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

2008 already has a page, and that tournament starts this Wednesday (3-19-08) in Kansas City, Missouri. 2005 has already happened, correct. Cheers. Moonraker0022 ( talk) 06:41, 17 March 2008 (UTC) totally didn't even notice that. thanks. cheers. Moonraker0022 ( talk) 02:03, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

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I'm tapping this message out to you because you were involved at the AfDs of Eve Carson or Lauren Burk. Following both of these heated debates, a new proposal has been made for a guideline to aid these contentious debates, which can be found at WP:N/CA. There is a page for comments at Wikipedia talk:Notability (criminal acts)/Opinions should you wish to make a comment. Thanks for your time, and apologies if this was not of interest! Fritzpoll ( talk) 15:29, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi. I've removed the PROD on the above per procedure as an objection to deletion by that route. I have no objection to deletion per se, but I've found enough to convince me that it needs wider debate under Afd and have no objection to you listing it there. I may even vote to delete on Afd, but just feel it deserves broader consideration. Hope you agree. (Nice work by the way. You're a prolific ed). Halfmast ( talk) 06:21, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

When reporting a username at WP:UAA, please use {{ user-uaa}}, not {{ userlinks}}. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 09:34, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Hmm is this a Twinkle issue? I used it to do the report, not sure if it made an error or that's its standard method. I'll try to remember to do it manually if I need to report in the future. TRAVELLINGCARI ^{My story} _{Tell me yours} 11:38, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

On 23 March, 2008, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Edgar Allan Poe Cottage , which you created or substantially expanded. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page.

-- Maxim _(talk) 01:25, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Open your card >> >> >>

Happy easter you guys! Sorry if the picture looked crappy, but it's the best I could do on such short notice. Sincerely, BoL ( Talk) 04:45, 23 March 2008 (UTC) Credits: This card was inspired by BoL, an administrator/bureaucrat and head designer of Codesnippets. Join the community today!

Wrong target. Awfully soz. All the best Plutonium27 ( talk) 16:07, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the comments. In light of what you said I've started a discussion on the talk page to try and develop better wording. -- SiobhanHansa 18:50, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

I was looking for an article about curation/preservation, etc. to reference from the Evidence management article I am writing. So far I have not found one. Can you suggest one ?

Thanks for the invite, but I think I will have my hands full with law enforcement stuff for a while. However, if there are any one off things you might want help with or I stumble across things I will provide input.

Regards. Peet Ern ( talk) 04:01, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks so much for your assistance with my Piedras Blancas Motel article. If and when you should find the time, I have a few questions in that discussion forum here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Piedras_Blancas_Motel ...and thanks for your patience! VintageMotelGuest ( talk) 05:38, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi Travellingcari,

I would appreciate some oversight on the following edit by 1TruthTracker:

20:46, March 16, 2008 1TruthTracker (Talk | contribs) (4,439 bytes) (→History: '04-'06 growth (report was for year prior) does't prove "cont'd growth" as of 3/08; new property plans seats 100 seats less than master plans for the current site-proving no new growth) (undo)

IMO, it's a no-brainer revert but this editor has it in for everything I do so I would prefer to have you take a look at it. It's so petty, I have no idea why they're digging their heels in on this one. Bg357 ( talk) 04:37, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Whether you understand the issues surrounding the church or not, the three sourcing citations I added are more than enough to independently verify the claim of continued growth that 1TruthTracker is hell-bent on removing.

http://www.outreachmagazine.com/docs/top100_2005.pdf

http://www.outreachmagazine.com/docs/top100_2006.pdf

http://www.outreachmagazine.com/docs/top100_2007_fastest.pdf

I will proceed with WP:3O if you think it's necessary but it's ludicrous to be held hostage by an unreasonable editor in such a clear-cut case. Bg357 ( talk) 05:20, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

My Response

Regarding these last references that I removed, they are not current. The reports were made off of information from the year before (ie: 2007 was for info received for 2006 attendence); and they were given to them by Real Life Ministries themselves. How do you know that the attendence for 2007 and the first 3 months of 2008 went up? It could have gone down. If you look at the last 5 years of CDA Press and Spokesman Review articles, reports from various magazine articles, claims from the church's own website, CDF's articles, bulletins from the church, and Jim's book, none of the numbers match up and they are all different to a large degree. At first the church claimed to have grown to 1,600 their first year. It was actually approx. 400 (as seen on the CDF website). They claimed on their website that they averaged 8,000 in attendance with 12,000 on Easter of '07. Now they've changed that down to 7,000. They have claimed to have 8,000 in attendance in a city of 18,000 people (Post Falls). Post Falls actually has a population of 33,009 ('07 census). And people attend RLM from more than just the town of Post Falls. People from Coeur d'Alene, Spirit Lake, Athol, Hayden, Hayden Lake, Dalton Gardens, Rathdrum, Twin Lakes, Harrison, Liberty Lake, Spokane Valley and Spokane attend RLM. All of the cities added together are more than 300,000! RLM also, on their website, claims to have the 124 acres paid for in full. According to the county records that claim is not substantiated in the least. There are many more examples, but I think this shows the consistantly inflated claims of RLM. I think that the article is still lacking alot of information from a NPOV and in a true substantiated form. However, in it's simplist current condition it is fine for now. I don't think that the preposition "With their congregation continuing to grow", detracts from the fact that they bought another piece of property and obtaining yet another mortgage. I also don't think that I am being unreasonable with my arguments. I would like to know honestly how BG357 is associated with the church; and what his/her reasoning is for trying to have this article "speedily deleted", and continuing to remove encyclopedic content from this article? I live in the area of the church and read the newspapers here everyday. I have noticed how big and often-talked-about this subject is here. That's how I notice all of the inconsistant claims of the church. I do have a NPOV concerning this article and want to see this article with true content. Not written with biased claims in one direction or the other. Thank you. -- 1TruthTracker ( talk) 19:04, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

just adding this to keep it from archiving as it's linked in the COI discussion TRAVELLINGCARI ^{My story} _{Tell me yours} 14:47, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm writing you here also. I wrote this in BG357's talk page, but thought it might be okay here too. Since you say that there are sources that appear to contradict one another (on BG's talk pg), can we all agree that since the continued growth cannot be verifiably proven nor disproven with current verifiable and factual information, that any sentences, statements or references to "current growth" be omitted from the article. It can be left that the church was ranked 13th, years ago, in the Outreach Magazine with the reference. I think this would stop the edit wars, and be fine until more current information can be obtained from somewhere else that doesn't get unverifiable information directly from the church itself. Is there anything that can be done about BG357 continuing to break the civility rules? It is uncalled for; and definately something that I feel is grounds for removing his/her user name or "account". Especially since he/she has been warned before, and blatenly continues to do so with no regards to Wiki's Civility rules. Thank you.-- 1TruthTracker ( talk) 18:44, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

Hello Travellingcari,

It's nice of you to share, here, that you were the one who originally tagged Real Life Ministries for deletion, after sitting back for a couple weeks, letting me be accused of that action. No really, I enjoyed that! (Please note: former intended as sarcasm, not incivility) I am curious though, why you stated that there are sources that contradict one another. All the verifiable sources I have seen are fairly consistent. Perhaps you have access to information I'm not aware of, you being a "gatekeeper" and all... (more sarcasm, intended for humor)

Seriously though, If you have reliable sourcing that contradicts the sourcing used to verify claims in the article, I would like to know more about them. In the interest of verifiability in regards to this article, I think more sources are better than less and even contradictory sources are helpful in determining what should and should not be in the article. Do you disagree? Bg357 ( talk) 00:33, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Response to both here. TRAVELLINGCARI ^{My story} _{Tell me yours} 01:00, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Anytime :) Fvasconcellos ( t· c) 13:32, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Oh darn, now I can't vandalize it from my IP! ;-). Congrats on your DYK. -- brew crewer (yada, yada) 01:29, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm usually not so nosy, but you pasted the DYK on your userpage with the sig. I don't think that's the standard. Maybe I'll nominate your user page for deletion.  ;-)-- brew crewer (yada, yada) 03:05, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I was suprised with the result (I'm also a bit suprised that you couldn't help me on it, but that's fine :-)). Most admins don't have the ***** to close an afd contrary to the popular !vote. The decision was very correct, however. But don't worry, I won't preach to you about it. If I hear Guantanomo Bay detainee again I'll....... -- brew crewer (yada, yada) 04:12, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

No problem, 'tis what I'm here for. Good night. Hersfold ^{( t/ a/ c)} 06:20, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

HI thanks for the invite. Unfortunately I have a bit of a bad experience with museums on wikipedia. I did my best to help sort out the List of museums in the United States with what I thought were good looking and useful tables and encountered several disagreeable editors which put me off actively editing museum articles (However it seems now they have decided I was right all along and have implemented the detailed tables which is a relief). However I do create museums articles from various countries quite regularly -I'll be sure to tag them accordingly . Regards ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ ^$1,000,000? 19:14, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Thanks yes I know. Some editor insisted on using a navigation template with a gigantic interactive map of the US which took up half of the pages. I tried to convert it to a normal footer template but had my efforts reverted so in the end I saw no use in continuing with it (oddly enough they now seem to have brought it back so my efforts went to good use after all !!!). I work a great deal on geo articles across the world and in doing so I often stub landmarks within them to clear re dlinks, museums often being amongst them. Given that I mostly work on places in the developing world to counteract systematic bias many of the museums I have started have been in quite obscure places like Burkina Faso, Burma, Slovenia etc. Some of their cultural museums look extremely interesting about which most of us know little about ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ ^$1,000,000? 19:24, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

I know this is one of the main obstacles for me on wikipedia is the language barrier and uneven web coverage, Burma, for such a large country is one of the prime examples of this for political and economic reasons, Africa also because of poverty. These countries must have a huge amount to tell. Incidentally I think you'll find it was User:Ekyaw who created those Burmese museum stubs. He is on of the few Burmese users on here, but I doubt even he could find the resources to expand them. He is in contact with the owner of the Yangon National Library, who I have encouraged to be told about wikipedia and to invite visitors to log into the site where restricted web access is possible. Its so sad the conditions of thes e places -they are really missing out, and so are we in terms of information but I remain optimistic eventually the barriers will break down and it will all improve. ♦Blofeld of SPECTRE♦ ^$1,000,000? 19:38, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

There is an almost complete list here. Although an easier way may be from Category:Museum stubs. Waacstats ( talk) 20:59, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, sorry, that was a mistake - I must have edited an earlier version by mistake. Johnbod ( talk) 02:03, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

actually you just did the same to me. Johnbod ( talk) 02:09, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Don't worry - I fixed it. Johnbod ( talk) 02:18, 31 March 2008 (UTC)