This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 10 | ← | Archive 15 | Archive 16 | Archive 17 | Archive 18 | Archive 19 | Archive 20 |
Hello WhatamIdoing, I want to continue to administrate the Haitian wikipedia. I created a section to vote for me in the "Kafe". Could you help me by encouraging contributors to vote quickly?-- Gilles2014 ( talk) 18:03, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
What a Brilliant Idea Barnstar | ||
For adding a very useful sidebar at WP:RMT, hope this will help to reduce the unnecessary requests there. DBig Xrayᗙ 12:38, 27 November 2019 (UTC) |
Thank you very much for the barnstar, DBigXray. Here's hoping that it works! WhatamIdoing ( talk) 07:11, 28 November 2019 (UTC)
I don't NEED to do anything. But YOU need to mind your own damned business. -- Calton | Talk 01:54, 6 December 2019 (UTC)
Hah, thanks for that :-)
It was interesting what you wrote about the different historical phases of WPMED. As a relative newbie (7 years?) I don't really "get" the historical context for some of the current drama, which is saddening to see ... Alexbrn ( talk) 06:31, 6 December 2019 (UTC)
:-D
WhatamIdoing (
talk) 17:09, 6 December 2019 (UTC)Hi WhatamIdoing,
Writing to follow up on the sourcing requirements for biography of living persons re: the Barrett Watten page. Namely, would a second source need to be from a separate publication, or would a follow-up article in the Chronicle of Higher Ed be sufficient as corroboration? Thank you for taking the time! -- Justanotherpoet ( talk) 19:09, 6 December 2019 (UTC)
Thanks for the quick followup; your explanation makes perfect sense, and I'll let the process work itself out beyond helping to identify the new sources. My first thought was to edit the article's Talk Page, but I believe the protections have been extended beyond to that space as well. Is it alright if I communicate directly with you or
User:StarryGrandma?
--
Justanotherpoet (
talk) 20:55, 6 December 2019 (UTC)
Hello
WhatamIdoing,
Writing to you to follow up on my previous questions, and thank you for opening your talk page for this matter. It seems a follow-up article has been published in The Chronicle of Higher Education ( https://www.chronicle.com/article/This-Professor-Was-Accused-of/247705?cid=wcontentlist_hp_latest). I hope this is helpful, and I'll "take my comment off the air." -- Justanotherpoet ( talk) 02:48, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
It would very much help if you were able to give examples, on talk-medmos, of the kind of drug prices (or cost knowledge) you might light to see in articles. Or indeed, the sort of thing you don't think should appear. Along with sources and an explanation of how any figures arise, limitations, etc. You mentioned the existing examples weren't exactly Wikipedia at its finest. But a sole editor, with an openly stated agenda, isn't Wikipedia at its finest either. I am concerned, just like with the article-videos, that perhaps Wikipedia is no longer a collaborative editing project. In previous times, if faults were found with article text, or proposed article text, we'd see a bunch of editors offering suggested variants and ideally all working towards a consensus version. Instead, well, we don't see any serious attempt to address the problems raised. There's zero specific input from other editors in support of or critical of text/source. Instead those wanting prices are focused entirely on the "drug pricing is important" soundbite. I can't believe wiki now lacks editors who are skilled in WP:V and WP:NOR policy review or are brilliant at identifying what our sources say and therefore what we can say. Are there any other editors you think could be pinged to help out here, other than your good self? -- Colin° Talk 14:00, 10 December 2019 (UTC)
"And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold,
I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord."
Luke 2:10-11 (King James Version)
Ozzie10aaaa ( talk) is wishing you a Merry Christmas.
This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove.
-- Ozzie10aaaa ( talk) 15:24, 17 December 2019 (UTC)
Season's Greetings | ||
Wishing you a Happy Holiday Season, and all best wishes for the New Year! Mystical Nativity (Filippo Lippi) is my Wiki-Christmas card to all for this year. Johnbod ( talk) 16:39, 17 December 2019 (UTC) |
Thank you for this reply - I have been mostly off-Wiki and this slipped by me until now. I have amended the article Dan Kneen with the archived website link as suggested in infobox, leaving the modern version with a different description under the Ext Links heading. Compliments of the Season to you.-- Rocknrollmancer ( talk) 21:41, 21 December 2019 (UTC)
:-D
WhatamIdoing (
talk) 22:42, 21 December 2019 (UTC)This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.
You have shown interest in the English Wikipedia Manual of Style and article titles policy. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect. Any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Wikipedia's policies, or the page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.
For additional information, please see the guidance on discretionary sanctions and the Arbitration Committee's decision here. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor.
Barkeep49 ( talk) 20:21, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
Seasons Greetings | |
Merry Christmas nd a happy new year. I tried to clone a Xmas card but failed and have to do each one individually. Have a lovely new year and thank you for everything. Whispyhistory ( talk) 22:34, 24 December 2019 (UTC) |
Hello WhatamIdoing, I want to add two sentences to the talk page on Multiple Chemical Sensitivity (to which I have made very occasional small edits over the last decade), but even the talk page is locked. You seem to be at the center of the conversation and stick to the rules, neutral between the warring factions. What do I do, or should I simply wait? The editors do not seem to understand that (1) the medical literature on MCS was distorted 25 years ago by well funded and unethical PR on the chemical companies' side; and (2) MCS as experienced by people like me cannot possibly occur given the basic theory underlying the practice of medicine, so debating what is happening assuming that theory is correct is at best a waste of time. I advocate shortening the page by 10x, summarizing the two sides' positions succinctly, and removing all of the advocacy and disinformation from both sides. -Fstevenchalmers Fstevenchalmers ( talk) 06:29, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
From a practical point of view, research into physical causes of MCS stopped 25 years ago when ESRI, run by Ron Gots and funded as a litigation defense effort largely by the chemical industry, went to the grant funders, institutions, researchers, and the journals with a story which painted the research as enabling these poor, poor mentally ill people and in so doing harming them. Best retelling (in a non peer reviewed form, of course) http://annmccampbell.com/publicationswritings/publication-1/ .
There was a bequest to Harvard to study this area but I see no useful results. https://sites.sph.harvard.edu/hoffman-program/
There is work by Ann Steinemann, who in the last few years left the US for a university in Australia, carefully never using the words "Multiple Chemical Sensitivity", the best of which is https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11869-019-00699-4 . Her work more generally is linked at https://www.drsteinemann.com/publications.html .
There is also work by Claudia Miller (who co wrote a seminal book almost 30 years ago, and invented the term TILT for Toxicant Induced Loss of Tolerance, and the QUEESI questionnaire). https://tiltresearch.org/ None of this comes close to forming a theory of how a minute exposure could, in a sensitized person, rapidly produce a subjectively noticeable change in the operation of the nervous system. Neither does anything the Environmental Medicine community has done since Theron Randolph. Martin Pall was in the right space, but even there IMHO was looking at a special case and not the general case.
None of these papers are of the quality Wikipedia's rules treat as the gold standard. The fact that Ron Gots' name was featured on the Wikipedia MCS page for over a decade says his disinformation effort of 25 years ago continues to bear fruit. It also bore fruit in litigation, shutting down chemical injury claims (including my own) for decades. The people with MCS (my side) were so totally outgunned that we lost decisively. I assume paid advocacy for the chemical industry is still occurring, but not through a visible organization.
The reason why I advocate radically shrinking this page is that it has been used to distribute disinformation in the past, disinformation which was deliberately injected into the science/medicine literature so it could be cited for litigation defense. There is no one really working directly on research, or trying to publish, papers which disagree. They're just sidestepping the issue and trying to chip away at its edges. It will be decades before science and medicine are ready to invest in looking here again.
Thank you for listening. Not sure if anything I've shared here is useful. Oh, and for the record, I hypothesize MCS is an autoimmune disease of the system of circulating proteins in the bloodstream allowing what are normally haptens on those proteins to interfere with the miniscule supplies of neurotransmitters and ion-channel ions supplying the nervous system. Utter heresy in medical circles, no possibility of discussion or publication of a hypothesis remotely like this, any more than Semmelweiss could get heard about washing hands. And I'm just a retired computer designer, no credentials.
-Fstevenchalmers Fstevenchalmers ( talk) 07:26, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
Thank you for listening, WhatamIdoing, and I apologize for my mishaps on both style/indentation/formatting and almost certain etiquette errors. Four more thoughts for you:
First, on the "recognition" issue, here's the real story. There are somewhere between 10,000 and 100,000 people like me in the US, who simply don't function well in the presence of everyday things which are routinely tolerated by the rest of the population. We can't work in a normal work environment, we can't socialize, we have a limited ability to go in stores. The recognition of this under ADA varies, and quite frankly in many cases it's too hard to practically accommodate. There is a 30 year old battle for accommodation. It's existential for the disabled: without the ability to work, without the ability to have housing one can function in, without the ability to go about one's business in public, one generally falls through the social safety net. These recognitions are about precedent for ADA accommodation and precedent for landing in rather than falling through the social safety net. Again, it's existential for a lot of people with my disability, and to be honest, what's written in Wikipedia may well affect the perceptions of those who approve and deny accommodation and social services. A good reference on this is a Yale Law Review article from about 6 years ago, [1] . From that piece:
" Much about MCS remains unknown and undefined, and unlike fibromyalgia, the development of MCS as a diagnosis has met with resistance from industry, as well as the medical community. Manufacturers of everything from fragrances to chemical pesticides have billions of dollars at stake; some doctors suggest that industry public relations efforts are the only reason MCS research has moved so slowly and remained so controversial. 02 If this is the case, the anti-MCS movement has certainly been effective: Even in the most recent material, highly contentious debate about the condition continues. 103" (Pages 20-21)
Second, the Clinical Ecologists (now called Environmental Medicine) can serve only the well off. A normal person doesn't have $10,000-$20,000 and the resources to live in special rental housing for a few months to visit the Environmental Health Center at Dallas. Insurance doesn't cover non-mainstream medicine. A normal person doesn't even have $500 for a normal intake exam at a local Environmental Medicine practice, much less all the tests they'll call for to see if there is anything wrong with you that medicine does know how to fix. So mainstream people with MCS are a different constituency from the MCS doctors.
Third, the term "Idiopathic Environmental Intolerance" was created and driven into the literature by the chemical industry funded disinformation team 25ish years ago, as part of their litigation defense effort to separate the chemical industry's products from what patients were experiencing. As author and advocate of that era Bonnye Mathews said at the time, "There is nothing idiopathic about being poisoned." I have no credible cite for you here. I want to be neutral on your proposed change (moving the disinformation under a header created by its proponents is poetic justice) but think there will be political blowback from the pro-MCS-recognition side if that is done.
Fourth, I'm sure you've seen the extraordinarily well done lit review from 2 years ago done in Italy. I don't speak academic, so it took my son to translate the last few sections into plain English for me, but those last sections are very important. [2]
Will have to think about the cancer patients thing. Some folks with MCS can point to a single large exposure (read up on Cindy Duehring, who was poisoned by improper professional use of an organophosphate pesticide) while in others it creeps up gradually. I tend to agree that there is a blame game after the fact. In the end, I can tell you the chain of events which created whatever soup it was that poisoned my family in our sick house 24 years ago, but none of the over $10,000 of chemical tests we ran found the exact culprit. A consultant we flew in told me that no customer of his had ever found the [culprit] in a situation like ours before running out of money, and he was right.
Again, thank you for listening. FStevenChalmers Fstevenchalmers ( talk) 06:15, 1 January 2020 (UTC)
Thank you again for listening, WhatamIdoing. A few thoughts in response, then I'll stand down, but I am around if needed/helpful. Your choice to go slow is wise, as I see it.
Your cancer analogy is a good one, it just took me looking from a totally different perspective to understand it. Your description of two phases of cancer (bacon to cause onset, polyps which result) is very true of MCS as Claudia Miller articulates in her TILT writings. But I think it's also spot on in another way: I've had polyps removed but do not have cancer. I have moles on my skin, but no cancer there either. Ann Steinemann's work in the last few years shows a prevalence of about 25% in the US of fragrance sensitivity, that is, some impact on the nervous or respiratory system from exposure to one or more ingredients. Other work in the last 30 years has varied from 33% of the population noticing they were affected, to about 16% who had modified their life (the example given at the time was not walking down the laundry detergent aisle in the grocery store). Full blown MCS is more analogous to cancer which has metastasized. The anti MCS recognition folks have a valid point in fearing bad PR from people in the 16% who freak out at normal, everyday perturbations of their nervous system caused by everyday things in our lives, and end up in anxiety or phobia as a result. But the across the board denial means if there are a handful of common solvents and enhancers (think MSG, but for the nose) which are impacting the ability to function of a large fraction of the population, they aren't being identified and phased out. To the cancer analogy I would add that EHS (electromagnetic hypersensitivity) is in the same family of syndromes as MCS, as are Gulf War Syndrome, Fibromyalgia, maybe ME/Chronic Fatigue and a few others. In all cases something changes in the body, leaving the nervous system malfunctioning either momentarily in response to trace environmental stimuli, or seemingly permanently malfunctioning.
On the MCS sensitization phase: the diversity of experience of people both here and in the being-sensitive phase has led to a lot of infighting in the MCS community over definition. Any time someone writes down a clear definition, it excludes someone else's experience, which makes that person afraid whatever disability income and accommodations are keeping them functioning will be withdrawn, and they react like a cornered animal. There are absolutely people like me who can point to a specific experience in a specific place on a specific day and say I was normal before this and had MCS afterward. There are other people like those who worked in the EPA building in Washington DC when the chemically defective carpet was put in 30 years ago who can point to a continuing exposure as their cause. A lot of people slowly develop MCS after their residence has construction work of some sort, as did a number of people who worked in unventilated spaces where large amounts of carbonless paper copies (the colored back sheets of the NCR forms of 30-50 years ago) (formaldehyde), as did a number of people exposed to certain materials at certain Boeing aircraft manufacturing facilities 20-30 years ago as well. But there are also people who say "I got the flu and when I got over it I had MCS" or simply that it came on gradually over a period of years or decades with no discernible cause. Just as cancer finally settled on I look at a tissue sample under a microscope and it looks like cancer cells, regardless of where they are or what caused them, I favor a very inclusive definition of MCS which leaves no one behind. In the end, the rigorous definition will require measurements (laboratory work, instruments) which do not exist today, and just as the invention of the EEG ended 2000 years of the medical profession thinking epilepsy was psychological, there will be something we can measure which all of a sudden makes MCS, EHS, GWS, and the like make perfect sense, from a viewpoint we do not have today.
-Fstevenchalmers (by the way this is my real name and I can be found on LinkedIn, Twitter, Facebook, Medium as @Fsteven...) Fstevenchalmers ( talk) 01:46, 2 January 2020 (UTC)
This might help. -- Brogo13 ( talk) 19:07, 2 January 2020 (UTC)
The word that can be omitted in standard English where it introduces a subordinate clause, as in she said (that) she was satisfied. It can also be dropped in a relative clause where the subject of the subordinate clause is not the same as the subject of the main clause, as in the book (that) I've just written (‘the book’ and ‘I’ are two different subjects). Where the subject of the subordinate clause and the main clause are the same, use of the word that is obligatory, as in the woman that owns the place (‘the woman’ is the subject of both clauses).
Yea ... here. A whole new approach. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 16:49, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is " An update on and a request for involvement at the Medicine MOS". Thank you. Barkeep49 ( talk) 03:37, 7 January 2020 (UTC)
Not sure I like the changes at the council page at all.... Seems to be used for recruitment for a few projects rather than an explanation of what we do. Really don't like the changes at all.....all the main links are now scattered throughout the page rather than being in a nice paragraph in the the lead. Plus why are we listing names ...most I have never been active in the council... they agreed to be spokesman for the council? I would normal revert....but there is an ongoing talk.-' Moxy 🍁 03:11, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
Hello WhatamIdoing I am an editor from Ghana. Recently I have been working increasing content on https://tw.wikipedia.org/. Unlike in English Wikipedia where one can click the cite tool from the visual editor to easily add a reference, one has to use the source editing to add reference on Twi Wikipedia. I would be very glad if you can help me enable the cite tool in the visual editor for Twi Wikipedia. Also It would be very cool if references from a translated article could be added to the article using the the translation tool. Celestinesucess ( talk) 09:05, 26 January 2020 (UTC)
I don't have a clue what happened! You or I could revert, but then I don't know what would be lost. Could two users have been editing at the same time??? Can an Admin solve it?
AHA! There are TWO styles of page! The one I use is the old style while your link directs to the new one. I don't know who, what or how.
My reply to user: Colin further down that discussion should clarify my point: "...the lack of balanced research and reporting in various medical areas does not originate with WP: it has been inherent in the medical profession as a whole for lo these many hundreds - if not thousands - of years." (Like the fairly recent discovery that men and women DO NOT react the same way to the same medication, because clinical trials were performed on men only.) Cheers! Shir-El too 18:31, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
Agreed. I added "2017 medical review" to Man flu and had trouble keeping it there - or having it taken seriously. I even contacted the BMJ to confirm that it was for real, but emails are not citable on WP. So I understand the problem first-hand. Back to the salt mines! Cheers! Shir-El too 18:41, 12 February 2020 (UTC)
I know the discussion isn't funny, but If you feel like adding "by Colonel Mustard with the vaping products", you've got the right idea.
was just the laugh I needed today, thanks!
Schazjmd
(talk) 20:31, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
I was fucking close to cry after reading your Quack post at ARB and I mean that literally. You've seen what I've seen and you managed to write it down in a comprehensive way I'm not capable of. You've hit the nail many times over. Thank you. --TMCk ( talk) 23:00, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
On the MCS Talk page you asked "One difference between the 1999 and 1987 definitions .. is that the older one requires a "documentable" event that caused the symptoms. ... I haven't yet figured out why this changed."
Are you sure the 1987 (Cullen) definition does require a documentable event? I don't have access to his original papers and can only find it in second-hand sources as: "Multiple chemical sensitivities (MCS) is an acquired disorder characterized by current symptoms, referable to multiple organ systems, occurring in response to demonstrable exposure to many chemically unrelated compounds at doses far below those established in the general population to cause harmful effects. No single widely accepted test of physiologic function can be shown to correlate with symptoms. (Cullen 1987a)" [1]. The criteria of 'acquired' is much weaker than a specific identifiable event and wouldn't be seriously disputed by other authors on the subject I'm aware of. In any case his focus was occupational medicine and he diagnosed industrial workers. An initial toxic exposure event would have been more common and more noticeable among them than the wider population of patients. If there is that difference in definitions then that's probably the explanation. Update: I think I'm confusing a documentable event that preceded the original onset of illness (ie. an acute chemical injury scenario), with a documentable event that triggers symptoms each time after the illness has developed? I don't think Cullen is arguing the later has to be particularly rigorously proven for a valid diagnosis but he was obviously keen to eliminate symptoms triggered by imagined exposures.
The 1999 consensus definition [2] was published by 34 physicians and researchers, and built on a wide survey 10 years earlier which drew on work going back before Cullen's time. This seems, to me at least, more authoritative and I'm not aware of any more recent similar effort. It's citation rate in recent years seems to be increasing.
There are some more recent definitions, however all that I'm aware of are by lone or small groups of authors and tend to exhibit bias. An example is Lacour's [3] which is quite widely cited. It's based on a literature survey and the authors don't appear to have much first hand experience with patients. I don't have a citation refuting it's conclusions - there may well be one - but the logic of it is that since central nervous symptoms are - just barely - the most often mentioned by MCS patients they should be required and all other symptoms are secondary. That's in keeping with the perspective of a psychosomatic origin for MCS but on very flimsy grounds. There's also a telling reference to odour hypersensitivity thrown in without any justification. Odour isn't part of the other definitions because many patients report reactions to odourless compounds (notwithstanding the distinction between odourful and odourless chemicals isn't clear cut, varying from person to person). Definitions such as this should really be regarded as controversial. 82.24.190.199 ( talk) 13:48, 15 February 2020 (UTC)
Hi WAID, if you’re still interested in my response to this comment at VPPR (which I must admit dropped down my priority list once the discussion was archived without a request for closure)...
For the specific question: as always, it depends on context, so I can’t address the example directly without seeing it. However, if we assume that it was a legitimate usage, then one can expect that it would be possible to gather a consensus in support of it (and if that isn’t possible, then it wasn’t a legitimate usage in the first place). One could argue that this is less efficient, but for the full context we would need to make a comparison to all the analogous discussions that would be required for the reverse case, and for a deprecated source there are far more cases of illegitimate usage than legitimate. Similarly, any harm to the encyclopedia from removing information incorrectly must be compared to the harm mitigated by all the cases where it was removed correctly.
On another note, though, “sometimes people don’t follow directions” isn’t really a valid argument against trying to figure out better directions. Besides, if people really didn’t read the directions, then opposing a particular change is pointless as well because it will never affect anyone in the first place. Of course, an example where someone fails to follow the directions is not "nothing to worry about", except perhaps in the sense that expecting perfect compliance for anything is unreasonable - because, of course, people don’t always read the directions. :-) And this also has to assume that the frequency of mistakes is high enough to be relevant (otherwise the most productive approach is simply to fix any individual instances), that it is in fact a mistake instead of a genuine disagreement, and so on.
I’m interpreting your comment as being about the broader issue of deprecation as a concept, rather than the narrower scope of that specific proposal, but please correct me if I’m wrong. (Separately, as a purely informational statement, phrasing like "righteous mission" comes across to me as an ad hominem, by implying that people are editing for ideological and/or dogmatic reasons. Of course, that might just be a perspective unique to me, plus I don't think you'd ever intend that, thus "purely informational".) Sunrise ( talk) 05:19, 17 February 2020 (UTC)
It would be good if you check and improve this article Draft:Anaplastic oligodendroglioma. Wname1 ( talk) 18:44, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
A quick note to thank you for the discussion you started on Iridescent's talk page on 'License attribution requirements'. In that vein, I recently made this comment. Carcharoth ( talk) 16:58, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
hi WhatamIdoing! Just wanted to give you a quick update. I followed the advice you gave me, as well as from some other experienced editors, and posted some wikiproject event information at an existing resource, the Wikipedia:Community bulletin board. I made sure to proceed gradually, and to get useful input and consensus for any items to be added. There is now added in a new section there. you are welcome to look at it, and to send me know any comments that you may have. I really appreciate your help and input. thanks!! -- Sm8900 ( talk) 14:50, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
Hello WhatamIdoing, |
---|
Sdkb ( talk) 06:50, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
Thank you for being so kind and helpful to the new Cochrane editor. I always notice your patience and kindness on Wikipedia. Have a nice day. JenOttawa ( talk) 15:54, 9 March 2020 (UTC)
This message is being sent to let you know of a discussion at the noticeboard regarding a content dispute discussion you may have participated in. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult for editors. You are not required to participate, but you are both invited and encouraged to help this dispute come to a resolution. The discussion is about the topic Trauma Trigger. Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you!- Pengortm ( talk) 06:00, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
I am not confident of my answer and need someone experienced to review. I really appreciate it. I am just afraid that my answer is misleading. -- Reciprocater ( talk) 15:12, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
Editor of the Week | ||
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WhatamIdoing |
Editor of the Week for the week beginning March 22, 2020 |
Confers with our most knowledgeable and experienced editors. Impressive knowledge of WP with ability to clarify for others. A Peacemaker during disagreements. Active since 2007 with 93000 edits over a broad spectrum of WP platforms. Focuses on efforts to improve articles of special importance to women and displays a keen interest and participation in Medical topics. Has been very involved with the Village Pump, dealing with policy and proposals and other important decisions. A truly diversified Editor deserving appreciation. |
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Thanks again for your efforts! ― Buster7 ☎ 15:17, 22 March 2020 (UTC)
From your request on January 5th to this day when you receive this message, it will be a total of 78 days. I no longer have the patience for you, therefore, I am withdrawing from your request along with the barnstar I created. There will be no replies from me. Happy editing & Cheers. Jerm ( talk) 21:18, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
Have a cupcake to say thanks for formulating and steering that price RFC, and your recent advice trying to help others with their RFC excess and wrong-headedness. -- Colin° Talk 16:50, 29 March 2020 (UTC)
You are involved in a recently filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Medical pricing and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. As threaded discussion is not permitted on most arbitration pages, please ensure that you make all comments in your own section only. Additionally, the guide to arbitration and the Arbitration Committee's procedures may be of use.
Thanks, Barkeep49 ( talk) 03:34, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
WhatamIdoing, I have no idea where to put this but don't really want to add it at the Arbcom statement but because I hope you will reconsider what you wrote there, much of which doesn't seem relevant to what an arbcom statement is for, as I understand it. If this isn't permissible then just delete it. Ping SandyGeorgia too.
What you are proposing User:Wugapodes and User:Ymblanter do cannot be done and should not be done. In your "potentially clearer version" you have invented proposals that nobody made in the RFC, such as 10% of drug articles could have prices in the leads, or describing situations where prices in leads can included. Even a drug with an exceptionally high price need not have a dollar and cent amount in the lead. The statement "Editors are generally opposed to inclusion of prices in the lede." is a summary of the RFC. That means anyone wanting to include prices in the lead has a mountain to climb and it better be pretty obvious that this particular drug article needs it and is hugely improved by it and you can convince others that this is an exception that is warranted.
Similarly "Editors may, however, cite other reliable sources that use this database" is also not supported by any discussion in the RFC. We'll just get James quoting some obscure WHO essential-medicine document that has a price citing IMPPG for the second row fifth column of a table on page 134 out of 456 pages and that mentions the drug name on the first column. Or citing some 2002 WHO/HAI survey of Haiti that uses the IMPPG as a reference, and claiming it represents the price of the drug in the developing world. Remember those WHO/HAI surveys also pick an arbitrary dose and formulation of the drug simply as a price-comparison metric and not to claim it represents the drug price in all possible uses of that drug.
Those are just examples of course, but I do believe we had the RFC clarified today and that is more than sufficient for good faith editors to make progress and for some editors to accept their argument is rejected. In particular it clarified the sort of sources needed both as evidence of inclusion-justification but also for the prices themselves. The closing admins can summarise the consensus but they are not empowered to invent their own new specific rules and regulations. Nor are they empowered to make exceptions to policy. -- Colin° Talk 18:06, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
did not arrive · · · Peter Southwood (talk): 07:05, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
You were recently listed as a party to a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine/Evidence. Please add your evidence by April 21, 2020, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, Dreamy Jazz 🎷 talk to me | my contributions 20:33, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
Hi there. Not to beat a dead horse, but I was wondering if perhaps you could clarify something from an old discussion here due to it coming up again and the fact that I was never able to respond at the time. While I agreed with you at the time (and now) that generally referencing YouTube, Amazon, iTunes, Spotify, etc etc was OK, my problem at the time was (and still is) with them being used as ref bombing as the majority of sources in an article. Which I had made clear at the time and other users like Ian.thomson had agreed with me was not appropriate. It never came down to how necessary or not it is as you insinuated, but the intentional over use of those specific references in articles. Especially in cases where they did not contain the information they where being cited for. Which often times they did not. So, I would appreciate some clarity on it if you have any. Since it has repeatedly came up since then and there is currently an ANI and a COI claim related to it. Here are some examples, This Is Jesus Culture, Starlight (Bethel Music album) (also excessively uses praisecharts.com which is very similar), Bethel Music discography (like 150 references are to Amazon and iTunes), Have It All (Bethel Music and Brian Johnson song) (over half are), The Father's House, Elevation Worship, Let the Redeemed, At Midnight (EP). I figured I would ask you because you seemed to be the dissenting person at the time. Plus, the user whom I originally had the issue with keeps using your original opinion as an excuse to revert people and act in an extremely untoward way. -- Adamant1 ( talk) 01:12, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
You are a highly experienced WP editor. I thought you, or someone you select, could intercede to help adjudicate a disagreement another WP contributor and I have been having regarding the industrial and organizational psychology entry. The nature of the disagreement is laid out on the talk page. In a nutshell, I want to mention that i/o psychology is one of the parent disciplines of occupational health psychology and my interlocutor, a contributor named sportstir, does not. I believe a WP editor who is not part of the disagreement, someone like yourself, could help break the logjam one way or another. Thank you. Iss246 ( talk) 14:19, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
thanks for your contributions
Haikoman (
talk) 14:33, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
Hello, Thank you for your message. As a non-member of WikiProject Medicine I usually do the minimum of assessment (or none) on such articles. Doing a thorough assessment on every article would mean that many fewer articles would get assessments.-- Johnsoniensis ( talk) 07:19, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
Barnstar of Emergency Article Creation | |
Re: Thank you for re-writing
Childhood interstitial lung disease on short notice. It was fun to work with you.
WhatamIdoing You deserve this one more than me. If you look at the logs, you actually beat me to it! :) Dr. Vogel ( talk) 20:22, 26 April 2020 (UTC) |
;-)
I love the fact that the two versions were so easily combined. What do you think is the next step for expanding it? I don't know enough about it to know whether a ==Treatment== section makes sense. Are they similar enough, or is every condition different?
WhatamIdoing (
talk) 21:58, 26 April 2020 (UTC)Just saying hi, hi Santino grillo ( talk) 01:23, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
Hello WhatamIdoing. I started the page on International Coalition of Medicines Regulatory Authorities, and someone else has tagged it with a lot of complaints. I'm concerned that it might be deleted, and I feel that would be a mistake. Can you help to spruce it up? Thanks in advance, Magnovvig ( talk) 13:16, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
Draft:Walid Ammar is an important figure, not only for his national-level efforts, but also because he is on the IAOC of the Health Emergencies Programme (WHO). As I found out today, his page has had some difficulty being established: Creating Walid Ammar. I am rubbish at these administrative issues, and by all accounts you have more experience, so I humbly ask you to have a look-see and possibly to promote his wiki page to full mainline status. Full disclosure: I have absolutely no prior involvement in his regard. Thanks in advance, Magnovvig ( talk) 13:27, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
User:WhatamIdoing, please contribute to the resolution of a dispute I have with User:Sportstir. The dispute is currently on the Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard. I would appreciate your input. Thank you. Iss246 ( talk) 23:29, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
User:WhatamIdoing, yesterday I offered another compromise to Sportstir, however, he did not respond to my offer. He and I are still at odds. I wonder if you could comment on the compromise I proposed on the Noticeboard ( /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#Summary_of_dispute_by_Psyc12). The compromise involves the i/o psychology and occupational stress entries because we have disagreements regarding those two entries. Perhaps you can help broker a peace. Here is the compromise:
"User:Sportstir, I propose another compromise. It is in two parts. One part is in the i/o psychology entry and the other part is in the occupational stress entry. 1. In the i/o psychology entry, I propose to modify this sentence: "With the development of Karasek's demand-control model and the University of Michigan's person–environment fit model in the late 1980s and early 1990s, a new discipline, occupational health psychology, emerged out of i/o psychology and both health psychology, and occupational medicine.[45][46]"
I would rewrite that sentence as follows: "In the late 1980s and early 1990s, a new discipline, occupational health psychology, emerged out of i/o psychology and both health psychology, and occupational medicine.[45][46]"
2. You wanted to place "particularly" in before "industrial and organizational psychology" in the following sentence: "A number of disciplines within psychology are concerned with occupational stress including clinical psychology, occupational health psychology, [1] human factors and ergonomics, and industrial and organizational psychology."
I wanted to avoid naming one discipline above all the others, which the word "particularly" would imply. Because I do not want readers to think that i/o psychology was the one preeminent field in research on job stress, I would leave the sentence without the word "particularly." And then I turn to the opening sentence of the occupational stress entry: "Occupational stress is psychological stress related to one's job." As you know, I tried to change the expression "psychological stress" to "psychological distress." I would not make the change." The compromise allows both of us to get some of what we want. Iss246 (talk) 19:07, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
Iss246 ( talk) 19:40, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
User:WhatamIdoing, I write to ask you to weigh in on the Noticeboard on the proposal I made with reference to the disagreement Sportstir and I have. I am not asking you to take my side. Just to weigh in. You can find my proposal toward the bottom of the Industrial and organizational psychology notice on the Noticeboard. Iss246 ( talk) 01:35, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
User:WhatamIdoing, regarding the Noticeboard, I write to ask you to comment on the three points I made in the eighth statement by the editors. I don't ask you to agree or disagree with me. Because you are a sensible editor, please comment and, perhaps, make a suggestion to help clear away the logjam. Thank you. Iss246 ( talk) 01:04, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
im here-- Ozzie10aaaa ( talk) 17:07, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
I tried to reply to you and it shows the edit but I don’t know what I messed up - it’s not in the section. I’m definitely still learning how to use the talk pages correctly so if you can either fix it or let me know what I did wrong I’d appreciate it! Sorry for the inconvenience!! bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez ( User/ say hi!) 01:41, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
Yes it was through the mobile reply feature. I guess I’ll just try to avoid that in the future (aside from this reply) if it messes up. bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez ( User/ say hi!) 03:21, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
The Medicine proposed decision was posted -- Guerillero | Parlez Moi 14:29, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
Waid, I'm trying to work on the COVID-19 pandemic article, presently the South America section, but I am at my wit's end with how to figure out how to manage the type of editing method they are using at that article nor do I understand why it is assumed that editors must use a different editing method for that particular article. Even as I look back in an attempt to try to figure it out it does not make sense to me. See here [1] for example. This is from May 16 and yet when one looks at the South America section one sees copy that was added later (by me) and Ozzie's ref needed tag which sits there for no reason was actually added when a later edit by Doc left a paragraph without connection to the former ref... Even looking back into my edit record when I pull up my edits to the S.A. section they are not actually accurate. Could you please read the TP section I opened "Deletions in the South America section" and advise me? Gandydancer ( talk) 13:55, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
|tag=span
with the
excerpt template. But if a citation needed tag is needed, then it's also needed at the source article, so just click through and add it there. I sympathize that it's a new system that takes a bit to get used to and still has some kinks to be worked out, but on the whole it's a really useful feature for conserving editor resources. {{u|
Sdkb}}
talk 01:32, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
An arbitration case Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine has now closed and the final decision is viewable at the link above. The following remedies have been enacted:
For the Arbitration Committee, Dreamy Jazz talk to me | my contributions 15:12, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.
You have shown interest in . Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect. Any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Wikipedia's policies, or the page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.
For additional information, please see the guidance on discretionary sanctions and the Arbitration Committee's decision here. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor.
This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.
You have shown interest in discussions about pharmaceutical drug prices and pricing and for edits adding, changing, or removing pharmaceutical drug prices or pricing from articles. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect. Any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Wikipedia's policies, or the page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.
For additional information, please see the guidance on discretionary sanctions and the Arbitration Committee's decision here. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor.
Barkeep49 ( talk) 02:53, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
On my talk page, you said: I think that you should self-revert this blanking. WP:TPO says to stop if anyone objects to you removing their comments, and it appears that there has been an objection. Removing is a much bigger step, with more potential to annoy editors, than boxing up or rapidly archiving a discussion, so it is meant to be avoided.
If you want to solve the underlying reason why the discussion is on that page, then perhaps you could create very low-carbohydrate ketogenic diet and redirect "keto diet" there, or suggest that they move that discussion to Talk:Type 3 diabetes, where a discussion about the ideal contents of Type 3 diabetes#Diet (which does not mention high-fat diets) would be obviously relevant. WhatamIdoing ( talk) 23:38, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
Should I do an RFC, or post to WT:MED ? [2] TS inherited this unnecessary mess and clutter as a result of the DJ apostrophe issue at Down’s, after which they came to TS. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 14:05, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 10 | ← | Archive 15 | Archive 16 | Archive 17 | Archive 18 | Archive 19 | Archive 20 |
Hello WhatamIdoing, I want to continue to administrate the Haitian wikipedia. I created a section to vote for me in the "Kafe". Could you help me by encouraging contributors to vote quickly?-- Gilles2014 ( talk) 18:03, 3 November 2019 (UTC)
What a Brilliant Idea Barnstar | ||
For adding a very useful sidebar at WP:RMT, hope this will help to reduce the unnecessary requests there. DBig Xrayᗙ 12:38, 27 November 2019 (UTC) |
Thank you very much for the barnstar, DBigXray. Here's hoping that it works! WhatamIdoing ( talk) 07:11, 28 November 2019 (UTC)
I don't NEED to do anything. But YOU need to mind your own damned business. -- Calton | Talk 01:54, 6 December 2019 (UTC)
Hah, thanks for that :-)
It was interesting what you wrote about the different historical phases of WPMED. As a relative newbie (7 years?) I don't really "get" the historical context for some of the current drama, which is saddening to see ... Alexbrn ( talk) 06:31, 6 December 2019 (UTC)
:-D
WhatamIdoing (
talk) 17:09, 6 December 2019 (UTC)Hi WhatamIdoing,
Writing to follow up on the sourcing requirements for biography of living persons re: the Barrett Watten page. Namely, would a second source need to be from a separate publication, or would a follow-up article in the Chronicle of Higher Ed be sufficient as corroboration? Thank you for taking the time! -- Justanotherpoet ( talk) 19:09, 6 December 2019 (UTC)
Thanks for the quick followup; your explanation makes perfect sense, and I'll let the process work itself out beyond helping to identify the new sources. My first thought was to edit the article's Talk Page, but I believe the protections have been extended beyond to that space as well. Is it alright if I communicate directly with you or
User:StarryGrandma?
--
Justanotherpoet (
talk) 20:55, 6 December 2019 (UTC)
Hello
WhatamIdoing,
Writing to you to follow up on my previous questions, and thank you for opening your talk page for this matter. It seems a follow-up article has been published in The Chronicle of Higher Education ( https://www.chronicle.com/article/This-Professor-Was-Accused-of/247705?cid=wcontentlist_hp_latest). I hope this is helpful, and I'll "take my comment off the air." -- Justanotherpoet ( talk) 02:48, 12 December 2019 (UTC)
It would very much help if you were able to give examples, on talk-medmos, of the kind of drug prices (or cost knowledge) you might light to see in articles. Or indeed, the sort of thing you don't think should appear. Along with sources and an explanation of how any figures arise, limitations, etc. You mentioned the existing examples weren't exactly Wikipedia at its finest. But a sole editor, with an openly stated agenda, isn't Wikipedia at its finest either. I am concerned, just like with the article-videos, that perhaps Wikipedia is no longer a collaborative editing project. In previous times, if faults were found with article text, or proposed article text, we'd see a bunch of editors offering suggested variants and ideally all working towards a consensus version. Instead, well, we don't see any serious attempt to address the problems raised. There's zero specific input from other editors in support of or critical of text/source. Instead those wanting prices are focused entirely on the "drug pricing is important" soundbite. I can't believe wiki now lacks editors who are skilled in WP:V and WP:NOR policy review or are brilliant at identifying what our sources say and therefore what we can say. Are there any other editors you think could be pinged to help out here, other than your good self? -- Colin° Talk 14:00, 10 December 2019 (UTC)
"And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold,
I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord."
Luke 2:10-11 (King James Version)
Ozzie10aaaa ( talk) is wishing you a Merry Christmas.
This greeting (and season) promotes WikiLove.
-- Ozzie10aaaa ( talk) 15:24, 17 December 2019 (UTC)
Season's Greetings | ||
Wishing you a Happy Holiday Season, and all best wishes for the New Year! Mystical Nativity (Filippo Lippi) is my Wiki-Christmas card to all for this year. Johnbod ( talk) 16:39, 17 December 2019 (UTC) |
Thank you for this reply - I have been mostly off-Wiki and this slipped by me until now. I have amended the article Dan Kneen with the archived website link as suggested in infobox, leaving the modern version with a different description under the Ext Links heading. Compliments of the Season to you.-- Rocknrollmancer ( talk) 21:41, 21 December 2019 (UTC)
:-D
WhatamIdoing (
talk) 22:42, 21 December 2019 (UTC)This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.
You have shown interest in the English Wikipedia Manual of Style and article titles policy. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect. Any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Wikipedia's policies, or the page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.
For additional information, please see the guidance on discretionary sanctions and the Arbitration Committee's decision here. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor.
Barkeep49 ( talk) 20:21, 23 December 2019 (UTC)
Seasons Greetings | |
Merry Christmas nd a happy new year. I tried to clone a Xmas card but failed and have to do each one individually. Have a lovely new year and thank you for everything. Whispyhistory ( talk) 22:34, 24 December 2019 (UTC) |
Hello WhatamIdoing, I want to add two sentences to the talk page on Multiple Chemical Sensitivity (to which I have made very occasional small edits over the last decade), but even the talk page is locked. You seem to be at the center of the conversation and stick to the rules, neutral between the warring factions. What do I do, or should I simply wait? The editors do not seem to understand that (1) the medical literature on MCS was distorted 25 years ago by well funded and unethical PR on the chemical companies' side; and (2) MCS as experienced by people like me cannot possibly occur given the basic theory underlying the practice of medicine, so debating what is happening assuming that theory is correct is at best a waste of time. I advocate shortening the page by 10x, summarizing the two sides' positions succinctly, and removing all of the advocacy and disinformation from both sides. -Fstevenchalmers Fstevenchalmers ( talk) 06:29, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
From a practical point of view, research into physical causes of MCS stopped 25 years ago when ESRI, run by Ron Gots and funded as a litigation defense effort largely by the chemical industry, went to the grant funders, institutions, researchers, and the journals with a story which painted the research as enabling these poor, poor mentally ill people and in so doing harming them. Best retelling (in a non peer reviewed form, of course) http://annmccampbell.com/publicationswritings/publication-1/ .
There was a bequest to Harvard to study this area but I see no useful results. https://sites.sph.harvard.edu/hoffman-program/
There is work by Ann Steinemann, who in the last few years left the US for a university in Australia, carefully never using the words "Multiple Chemical Sensitivity", the best of which is https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11869-019-00699-4 . Her work more generally is linked at https://www.drsteinemann.com/publications.html .
There is also work by Claudia Miller (who co wrote a seminal book almost 30 years ago, and invented the term TILT for Toxicant Induced Loss of Tolerance, and the QUEESI questionnaire). https://tiltresearch.org/ None of this comes close to forming a theory of how a minute exposure could, in a sensitized person, rapidly produce a subjectively noticeable change in the operation of the nervous system. Neither does anything the Environmental Medicine community has done since Theron Randolph. Martin Pall was in the right space, but even there IMHO was looking at a special case and not the general case.
None of these papers are of the quality Wikipedia's rules treat as the gold standard. The fact that Ron Gots' name was featured on the Wikipedia MCS page for over a decade says his disinformation effort of 25 years ago continues to bear fruit. It also bore fruit in litigation, shutting down chemical injury claims (including my own) for decades. The people with MCS (my side) were so totally outgunned that we lost decisively. I assume paid advocacy for the chemical industry is still occurring, but not through a visible organization.
The reason why I advocate radically shrinking this page is that it has been used to distribute disinformation in the past, disinformation which was deliberately injected into the science/medicine literature so it could be cited for litigation defense. There is no one really working directly on research, or trying to publish, papers which disagree. They're just sidestepping the issue and trying to chip away at its edges. It will be decades before science and medicine are ready to invest in looking here again.
Thank you for listening. Not sure if anything I've shared here is useful. Oh, and for the record, I hypothesize MCS is an autoimmune disease of the system of circulating proteins in the bloodstream allowing what are normally haptens on those proteins to interfere with the miniscule supplies of neurotransmitters and ion-channel ions supplying the nervous system. Utter heresy in medical circles, no possibility of discussion or publication of a hypothesis remotely like this, any more than Semmelweiss could get heard about washing hands. And I'm just a retired computer designer, no credentials.
-Fstevenchalmers Fstevenchalmers ( talk) 07:26, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
Thank you for listening, WhatamIdoing, and I apologize for my mishaps on both style/indentation/formatting and almost certain etiquette errors. Four more thoughts for you:
First, on the "recognition" issue, here's the real story. There are somewhere between 10,000 and 100,000 people like me in the US, who simply don't function well in the presence of everyday things which are routinely tolerated by the rest of the population. We can't work in a normal work environment, we can't socialize, we have a limited ability to go in stores. The recognition of this under ADA varies, and quite frankly in many cases it's too hard to practically accommodate. There is a 30 year old battle for accommodation. It's existential for the disabled: without the ability to work, without the ability to have housing one can function in, without the ability to go about one's business in public, one generally falls through the social safety net. These recognitions are about precedent for ADA accommodation and precedent for landing in rather than falling through the social safety net. Again, it's existential for a lot of people with my disability, and to be honest, what's written in Wikipedia may well affect the perceptions of those who approve and deny accommodation and social services. A good reference on this is a Yale Law Review article from about 6 years ago, [1] . From that piece:
" Much about MCS remains unknown and undefined, and unlike fibromyalgia, the development of MCS as a diagnosis has met with resistance from industry, as well as the medical community. Manufacturers of everything from fragrances to chemical pesticides have billions of dollars at stake; some doctors suggest that industry public relations efforts are the only reason MCS research has moved so slowly and remained so controversial. 02 If this is the case, the anti-MCS movement has certainly been effective: Even in the most recent material, highly contentious debate about the condition continues. 103" (Pages 20-21)
Second, the Clinical Ecologists (now called Environmental Medicine) can serve only the well off. A normal person doesn't have $10,000-$20,000 and the resources to live in special rental housing for a few months to visit the Environmental Health Center at Dallas. Insurance doesn't cover non-mainstream medicine. A normal person doesn't even have $500 for a normal intake exam at a local Environmental Medicine practice, much less all the tests they'll call for to see if there is anything wrong with you that medicine does know how to fix. So mainstream people with MCS are a different constituency from the MCS doctors.
Third, the term "Idiopathic Environmental Intolerance" was created and driven into the literature by the chemical industry funded disinformation team 25ish years ago, as part of their litigation defense effort to separate the chemical industry's products from what patients were experiencing. As author and advocate of that era Bonnye Mathews said at the time, "There is nothing idiopathic about being poisoned." I have no credible cite for you here. I want to be neutral on your proposed change (moving the disinformation under a header created by its proponents is poetic justice) but think there will be political blowback from the pro-MCS-recognition side if that is done.
Fourth, I'm sure you've seen the extraordinarily well done lit review from 2 years ago done in Italy. I don't speak academic, so it took my son to translate the last few sections into plain English for me, but those last sections are very important. [2]
Will have to think about the cancer patients thing. Some folks with MCS can point to a single large exposure (read up on Cindy Duehring, who was poisoned by improper professional use of an organophosphate pesticide) while in others it creeps up gradually. I tend to agree that there is a blame game after the fact. In the end, I can tell you the chain of events which created whatever soup it was that poisoned my family in our sick house 24 years ago, but none of the over $10,000 of chemical tests we ran found the exact culprit. A consultant we flew in told me that no customer of his had ever found the [culprit] in a situation like ours before running out of money, and he was right.
Again, thank you for listening. FStevenChalmers Fstevenchalmers ( talk) 06:15, 1 January 2020 (UTC)
Thank you again for listening, WhatamIdoing. A few thoughts in response, then I'll stand down, but I am around if needed/helpful. Your choice to go slow is wise, as I see it.
Your cancer analogy is a good one, it just took me looking from a totally different perspective to understand it. Your description of two phases of cancer (bacon to cause onset, polyps which result) is very true of MCS as Claudia Miller articulates in her TILT writings. But I think it's also spot on in another way: I've had polyps removed but do not have cancer. I have moles on my skin, but no cancer there either. Ann Steinemann's work in the last few years shows a prevalence of about 25% in the US of fragrance sensitivity, that is, some impact on the nervous or respiratory system from exposure to one or more ingredients. Other work in the last 30 years has varied from 33% of the population noticing they were affected, to about 16% who had modified their life (the example given at the time was not walking down the laundry detergent aisle in the grocery store). Full blown MCS is more analogous to cancer which has metastasized. The anti MCS recognition folks have a valid point in fearing bad PR from people in the 16% who freak out at normal, everyday perturbations of their nervous system caused by everyday things in our lives, and end up in anxiety or phobia as a result. But the across the board denial means if there are a handful of common solvents and enhancers (think MSG, but for the nose) which are impacting the ability to function of a large fraction of the population, they aren't being identified and phased out. To the cancer analogy I would add that EHS (electromagnetic hypersensitivity) is in the same family of syndromes as MCS, as are Gulf War Syndrome, Fibromyalgia, maybe ME/Chronic Fatigue and a few others. In all cases something changes in the body, leaving the nervous system malfunctioning either momentarily in response to trace environmental stimuli, or seemingly permanently malfunctioning.
On the MCS sensitization phase: the diversity of experience of people both here and in the being-sensitive phase has led to a lot of infighting in the MCS community over definition. Any time someone writes down a clear definition, it excludes someone else's experience, which makes that person afraid whatever disability income and accommodations are keeping them functioning will be withdrawn, and they react like a cornered animal. There are absolutely people like me who can point to a specific experience in a specific place on a specific day and say I was normal before this and had MCS afterward. There are other people like those who worked in the EPA building in Washington DC when the chemically defective carpet was put in 30 years ago who can point to a continuing exposure as their cause. A lot of people slowly develop MCS after their residence has construction work of some sort, as did a number of people who worked in unventilated spaces where large amounts of carbonless paper copies (the colored back sheets of the NCR forms of 30-50 years ago) (formaldehyde), as did a number of people exposed to certain materials at certain Boeing aircraft manufacturing facilities 20-30 years ago as well. But there are also people who say "I got the flu and when I got over it I had MCS" or simply that it came on gradually over a period of years or decades with no discernible cause. Just as cancer finally settled on I look at a tissue sample under a microscope and it looks like cancer cells, regardless of where they are or what caused them, I favor a very inclusive definition of MCS which leaves no one behind. In the end, the rigorous definition will require measurements (laboratory work, instruments) which do not exist today, and just as the invention of the EEG ended 2000 years of the medical profession thinking epilepsy was psychological, there will be something we can measure which all of a sudden makes MCS, EHS, GWS, and the like make perfect sense, from a viewpoint we do not have today.
-Fstevenchalmers (by the way this is my real name and I can be found on LinkedIn, Twitter, Facebook, Medium as @Fsteven...) Fstevenchalmers ( talk) 01:46, 2 January 2020 (UTC)
This might help. -- Brogo13 ( talk) 19:07, 2 January 2020 (UTC)
The word that can be omitted in standard English where it introduces a subordinate clause, as in she said (that) she was satisfied. It can also be dropped in a relative clause where the subject of the subordinate clause is not the same as the subject of the main clause, as in the book (that) I've just written (‘the book’ and ‘I’ are two different subjects). Where the subject of the subordinate clause and the main clause are the same, use of the word that is obligatory, as in the woman that owns the place (‘the woman’ is the subject of both clauses).
Yea ... here. A whole new approach. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 16:49, 6 January 2020 (UTC)
There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is " An update on and a request for involvement at the Medicine MOS". Thank you. Barkeep49 ( talk) 03:37, 7 January 2020 (UTC)
Not sure I like the changes at the council page at all.... Seems to be used for recruitment for a few projects rather than an explanation of what we do. Really don't like the changes at all.....all the main links are now scattered throughout the page rather than being in a nice paragraph in the the lead. Plus why are we listing names ...most I have never been active in the council... they agreed to be spokesman for the council? I would normal revert....but there is an ongoing talk.-' Moxy 🍁 03:11, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
Hello WhatamIdoing I am an editor from Ghana. Recently I have been working increasing content on https://tw.wikipedia.org/. Unlike in English Wikipedia where one can click the cite tool from the visual editor to easily add a reference, one has to use the source editing to add reference on Twi Wikipedia. I would be very glad if you can help me enable the cite tool in the visual editor for Twi Wikipedia. Also It would be very cool if references from a translated article could be added to the article using the the translation tool. Celestinesucess ( talk) 09:05, 26 January 2020 (UTC)
I don't have a clue what happened! You or I could revert, but then I don't know what would be lost. Could two users have been editing at the same time??? Can an Admin solve it?
AHA! There are TWO styles of page! The one I use is the old style while your link directs to the new one. I don't know who, what or how.
My reply to user: Colin further down that discussion should clarify my point: "...the lack of balanced research and reporting in various medical areas does not originate with WP: it has been inherent in the medical profession as a whole for lo these many hundreds - if not thousands - of years." (Like the fairly recent discovery that men and women DO NOT react the same way to the same medication, because clinical trials were performed on men only.) Cheers! Shir-El too 18:31, 11 February 2020 (UTC)
Agreed. I added "2017 medical review" to Man flu and had trouble keeping it there - or having it taken seriously. I even contacted the BMJ to confirm that it was for real, but emails are not citable on WP. So I understand the problem first-hand. Back to the salt mines! Cheers! Shir-El too 18:41, 12 February 2020 (UTC)
I know the discussion isn't funny, but If you feel like adding "by Colonel Mustard with the vaping products", you've got the right idea.
was just the laugh I needed today, thanks!
Schazjmd
(talk) 20:31, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
I was fucking close to cry after reading your Quack post at ARB and I mean that literally. You've seen what I've seen and you managed to write it down in a comprehensive way I'm not capable of. You've hit the nail many times over. Thank you. --TMCk ( talk) 23:00, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
On the MCS Talk page you asked "One difference between the 1999 and 1987 definitions .. is that the older one requires a "documentable" event that caused the symptoms. ... I haven't yet figured out why this changed."
Are you sure the 1987 (Cullen) definition does require a documentable event? I don't have access to his original papers and can only find it in second-hand sources as: "Multiple chemical sensitivities (MCS) is an acquired disorder characterized by current symptoms, referable to multiple organ systems, occurring in response to demonstrable exposure to many chemically unrelated compounds at doses far below those established in the general population to cause harmful effects. No single widely accepted test of physiologic function can be shown to correlate with symptoms. (Cullen 1987a)" [1]. The criteria of 'acquired' is much weaker than a specific identifiable event and wouldn't be seriously disputed by other authors on the subject I'm aware of. In any case his focus was occupational medicine and he diagnosed industrial workers. An initial toxic exposure event would have been more common and more noticeable among them than the wider population of patients. If there is that difference in definitions then that's probably the explanation. Update: I think I'm confusing a documentable event that preceded the original onset of illness (ie. an acute chemical injury scenario), with a documentable event that triggers symptoms each time after the illness has developed? I don't think Cullen is arguing the later has to be particularly rigorously proven for a valid diagnosis but he was obviously keen to eliminate symptoms triggered by imagined exposures.
The 1999 consensus definition [2] was published by 34 physicians and researchers, and built on a wide survey 10 years earlier which drew on work going back before Cullen's time. This seems, to me at least, more authoritative and I'm not aware of any more recent similar effort. It's citation rate in recent years seems to be increasing.
There are some more recent definitions, however all that I'm aware of are by lone or small groups of authors and tend to exhibit bias. An example is Lacour's [3] which is quite widely cited. It's based on a literature survey and the authors don't appear to have much first hand experience with patients. I don't have a citation refuting it's conclusions - there may well be one - but the logic of it is that since central nervous symptoms are - just barely - the most often mentioned by MCS patients they should be required and all other symptoms are secondary. That's in keeping with the perspective of a psychosomatic origin for MCS but on very flimsy grounds. There's also a telling reference to odour hypersensitivity thrown in without any justification. Odour isn't part of the other definitions because many patients report reactions to odourless compounds (notwithstanding the distinction between odourful and odourless chemicals isn't clear cut, varying from person to person). Definitions such as this should really be regarded as controversial. 82.24.190.199 ( talk) 13:48, 15 February 2020 (UTC)
Hi WAID, if you’re still interested in my response to this comment at VPPR (which I must admit dropped down my priority list once the discussion was archived without a request for closure)...
For the specific question: as always, it depends on context, so I can’t address the example directly without seeing it. However, if we assume that it was a legitimate usage, then one can expect that it would be possible to gather a consensus in support of it (and if that isn’t possible, then it wasn’t a legitimate usage in the first place). One could argue that this is less efficient, but for the full context we would need to make a comparison to all the analogous discussions that would be required for the reverse case, and for a deprecated source there are far more cases of illegitimate usage than legitimate. Similarly, any harm to the encyclopedia from removing information incorrectly must be compared to the harm mitigated by all the cases where it was removed correctly.
On another note, though, “sometimes people don’t follow directions” isn’t really a valid argument against trying to figure out better directions. Besides, if people really didn’t read the directions, then opposing a particular change is pointless as well because it will never affect anyone in the first place. Of course, an example where someone fails to follow the directions is not "nothing to worry about", except perhaps in the sense that expecting perfect compliance for anything is unreasonable - because, of course, people don’t always read the directions. :-) And this also has to assume that the frequency of mistakes is high enough to be relevant (otherwise the most productive approach is simply to fix any individual instances), that it is in fact a mistake instead of a genuine disagreement, and so on.
I’m interpreting your comment as being about the broader issue of deprecation as a concept, rather than the narrower scope of that specific proposal, but please correct me if I’m wrong. (Separately, as a purely informational statement, phrasing like "righteous mission" comes across to me as an ad hominem, by implying that people are editing for ideological and/or dogmatic reasons. Of course, that might just be a perspective unique to me, plus I don't think you'd ever intend that, thus "purely informational".) Sunrise ( talk) 05:19, 17 February 2020 (UTC)
It would be good if you check and improve this article Draft:Anaplastic oligodendroglioma. Wname1 ( talk) 18:44, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
A quick note to thank you for the discussion you started on Iridescent's talk page on 'License attribution requirements'. In that vein, I recently made this comment. Carcharoth ( talk) 16:58, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
hi WhatamIdoing! Just wanted to give you a quick update. I followed the advice you gave me, as well as from some other experienced editors, and posted some wikiproject event information at an existing resource, the Wikipedia:Community bulletin board. I made sure to proceed gradually, and to get useful input and consensus for any items to be added. There is now added in a new section there. you are welcome to look at it, and to send me know any comments that you may have. I really appreciate your help and input. thanks!! -- Sm8900 ( talk) 14:50, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
Hello WhatamIdoing, |
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Sdkb ( talk) 06:50, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
Thank you for being so kind and helpful to the new Cochrane editor. I always notice your patience and kindness on Wikipedia. Have a nice day. JenOttawa ( talk) 15:54, 9 March 2020 (UTC)
This message is being sent to let you know of a discussion at the noticeboard regarding a content dispute discussion you may have participated in. Content disputes can hold up article development and make editing difficult for editors. You are not required to participate, but you are both invited and encouraged to help this dispute come to a resolution. The discussion is about the topic Trauma Trigger. Please join us to help form a consensus. Thank you!- Pengortm ( talk) 06:00, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
I am not confident of my answer and need someone experienced to review. I really appreciate it. I am just afraid that my answer is misleading. -- Reciprocater ( talk) 15:12, 20 March 2020 (UTC)
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WhatamIdoing |
Editor of the Week for the week beginning March 22, 2020 |
Confers with our most knowledgeable and experienced editors. Impressive knowledge of WP with ability to clarify for others. A Peacemaker during disagreements. Active since 2007 with 93000 edits over a broad spectrum of WP platforms. Focuses on efforts to improve articles of special importance to women and displays a keen interest and participation in Medical topics. Has been very involved with the Village Pump, dealing with policy and proposals and other important decisions. A truly diversified Editor deserving appreciation. |
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Thanks again for your efforts! ― Buster7 ☎ 15:17, 22 March 2020 (UTC)
From your request on January 5th to this day when you receive this message, it will be a total of 78 days. I no longer have the patience for you, therefore, I am withdrawing from your request along with the barnstar I created. There will be no replies from me. Happy editing & Cheers. Jerm ( talk) 21:18, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
Have a cupcake to say thanks for formulating and steering that price RFC, and your recent advice trying to help others with their RFC excess and wrong-headedness. -- Colin° Talk 16:50, 29 March 2020 (UTC)
You are involved in a recently filed request for arbitration. Please review the request at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case#Medical pricing and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. As threaded discussion is not permitted on most arbitration pages, please ensure that you make all comments in your own section only. Additionally, the guide to arbitration and the Arbitration Committee's procedures may be of use.
Thanks, Barkeep49 ( talk) 03:34, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
WhatamIdoing, I have no idea where to put this but don't really want to add it at the Arbcom statement but because I hope you will reconsider what you wrote there, much of which doesn't seem relevant to what an arbcom statement is for, as I understand it. If this isn't permissible then just delete it. Ping SandyGeorgia too.
What you are proposing User:Wugapodes and User:Ymblanter do cannot be done and should not be done. In your "potentially clearer version" you have invented proposals that nobody made in the RFC, such as 10% of drug articles could have prices in the leads, or describing situations where prices in leads can included. Even a drug with an exceptionally high price need not have a dollar and cent amount in the lead. The statement "Editors are generally opposed to inclusion of prices in the lede." is a summary of the RFC. That means anyone wanting to include prices in the lead has a mountain to climb and it better be pretty obvious that this particular drug article needs it and is hugely improved by it and you can convince others that this is an exception that is warranted.
Similarly "Editors may, however, cite other reliable sources that use this database" is also not supported by any discussion in the RFC. We'll just get James quoting some obscure WHO essential-medicine document that has a price citing IMPPG for the second row fifth column of a table on page 134 out of 456 pages and that mentions the drug name on the first column. Or citing some 2002 WHO/HAI survey of Haiti that uses the IMPPG as a reference, and claiming it represents the price of the drug in the developing world. Remember those WHO/HAI surveys also pick an arbitrary dose and formulation of the drug simply as a price-comparison metric and not to claim it represents the drug price in all possible uses of that drug.
Those are just examples of course, but I do believe we had the RFC clarified today and that is more than sufficient for good faith editors to make progress and for some editors to accept their argument is rejected. In particular it clarified the sort of sources needed both as evidence of inclusion-justification but also for the prices themselves. The closing admins can summarise the consensus but they are not empowered to invent their own new specific rules and regulations. Nor are they empowered to make exceptions to policy. -- Colin° Talk 18:06, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
did not arrive · · · Peter Southwood (talk): 07:05, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
You were recently listed as a party to a request for arbitration. The Arbitration Committee has accepted that request for arbitration and an arbitration case has been opened at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine. Evidence that you wish the arbitrators to consider should be added to the evidence subpage, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine/Evidence. Please add your evidence by April 21, 2020, which is when the evidence phase closes. You can also contribute to the case workshop subpage, Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine/Workshop. For a guide to the arbitration process, see Wikipedia:Arbitration/Guide to arbitration. For the Arbitration Committee, Dreamy Jazz 🎷 talk to me | my contributions 20:33, 7 April 2020 (UTC)
Hi there. Not to beat a dead horse, but I was wondering if perhaps you could clarify something from an old discussion here due to it coming up again and the fact that I was never able to respond at the time. While I agreed with you at the time (and now) that generally referencing YouTube, Amazon, iTunes, Spotify, etc etc was OK, my problem at the time was (and still is) with them being used as ref bombing as the majority of sources in an article. Which I had made clear at the time and other users like Ian.thomson had agreed with me was not appropriate. It never came down to how necessary or not it is as you insinuated, but the intentional over use of those specific references in articles. Especially in cases where they did not contain the information they where being cited for. Which often times they did not. So, I would appreciate some clarity on it if you have any. Since it has repeatedly came up since then and there is currently an ANI and a COI claim related to it. Here are some examples, This Is Jesus Culture, Starlight (Bethel Music album) (also excessively uses praisecharts.com which is very similar), Bethel Music discography (like 150 references are to Amazon and iTunes), Have It All (Bethel Music and Brian Johnson song) (over half are), The Father's House, Elevation Worship, Let the Redeemed, At Midnight (EP). I figured I would ask you because you seemed to be the dissenting person at the time. Plus, the user whom I originally had the issue with keeps using your original opinion as an excuse to revert people and act in an extremely untoward way. -- Adamant1 ( talk) 01:12, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
You are a highly experienced WP editor. I thought you, or someone you select, could intercede to help adjudicate a disagreement another WP contributor and I have been having regarding the industrial and organizational psychology entry. The nature of the disagreement is laid out on the talk page. In a nutshell, I want to mention that i/o psychology is one of the parent disciplines of occupational health psychology and my interlocutor, a contributor named sportstir, does not. I believe a WP editor who is not part of the disagreement, someone like yourself, could help break the logjam one way or another. Thank you. Iss246 ( talk) 14:19, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
thanks for your contributions
Haikoman (
talk) 14:33, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
Hello, Thank you for your message. As a non-member of WikiProject Medicine I usually do the minimum of assessment (or none) on such articles. Doing a thorough assessment on every article would mean that many fewer articles would get assessments.-- Johnsoniensis ( talk) 07:19, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
Barnstar of Emergency Article Creation | |
Re: Thank you for re-writing
Childhood interstitial lung disease on short notice. It was fun to work with you.
WhatamIdoing You deserve this one more than me. If you look at the logs, you actually beat me to it! :) Dr. Vogel ( talk) 20:22, 26 April 2020 (UTC) |
;-)
I love the fact that the two versions were so easily combined. What do you think is the next step for expanding it? I don't know enough about it to know whether a ==Treatment== section makes sense. Are they similar enough, or is every condition different?
WhatamIdoing (
talk) 21:58, 26 April 2020 (UTC)Just saying hi, hi Santino grillo ( talk) 01:23, 29 April 2020 (UTC)
Hello WhatamIdoing. I started the page on International Coalition of Medicines Regulatory Authorities, and someone else has tagged it with a lot of complaints. I'm concerned that it might be deleted, and I feel that would be a mistake. Can you help to spruce it up? Thanks in advance, Magnovvig ( talk) 13:16, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
Draft:Walid Ammar is an important figure, not only for his national-level efforts, but also because he is on the IAOC of the Health Emergencies Programme (WHO). As I found out today, his page has had some difficulty being established: Creating Walid Ammar. I am rubbish at these administrative issues, and by all accounts you have more experience, so I humbly ask you to have a look-see and possibly to promote his wiki page to full mainline status. Full disclosure: I have absolutely no prior involvement in his regard. Thanks in advance, Magnovvig ( talk) 13:27, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
User:WhatamIdoing, please contribute to the resolution of a dispute I have with User:Sportstir. The dispute is currently on the Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard. I would appreciate your input. Thank you. Iss246 ( talk) 23:29, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
User:WhatamIdoing, yesterday I offered another compromise to Sportstir, however, he did not respond to my offer. He and I are still at odds. I wonder if you could comment on the compromise I proposed on the Noticeboard ( /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Dispute_resolution_noticeboard#Summary_of_dispute_by_Psyc12). The compromise involves the i/o psychology and occupational stress entries because we have disagreements regarding those two entries. Perhaps you can help broker a peace. Here is the compromise:
"User:Sportstir, I propose another compromise. It is in two parts. One part is in the i/o psychology entry and the other part is in the occupational stress entry. 1. In the i/o psychology entry, I propose to modify this sentence: "With the development of Karasek's demand-control model and the University of Michigan's person–environment fit model in the late 1980s and early 1990s, a new discipline, occupational health psychology, emerged out of i/o psychology and both health psychology, and occupational medicine.[45][46]"
I would rewrite that sentence as follows: "In the late 1980s and early 1990s, a new discipline, occupational health psychology, emerged out of i/o psychology and both health psychology, and occupational medicine.[45][46]"
2. You wanted to place "particularly" in before "industrial and organizational psychology" in the following sentence: "A number of disciplines within psychology are concerned with occupational stress including clinical psychology, occupational health psychology, [1] human factors and ergonomics, and industrial and organizational psychology."
I wanted to avoid naming one discipline above all the others, which the word "particularly" would imply. Because I do not want readers to think that i/o psychology was the one preeminent field in research on job stress, I would leave the sentence without the word "particularly." And then I turn to the opening sentence of the occupational stress entry: "Occupational stress is psychological stress related to one's job." As you know, I tried to change the expression "psychological stress" to "psychological distress." I would not make the change." The compromise allows both of us to get some of what we want. Iss246 (talk) 19:07, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
Iss246 ( talk) 19:40, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
User:WhatamIdoing, I write to ask you to weigh in on the Noticeboard on the proposal I made with reference to the disagreement Sportstir and I have. I am not asking you to take my side. Just to weigh in. You can find my proposal toward the bottom of the Industrial and organizational psychology notice on the Noticeboard. Iss246 ( talk) 01:35, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
User:WhatamIdoing, regarding the Noticeboard, I write to ask you to comment on the three points I made in the eighth statement by the editors. I don't ask you to agree or disagree with me. Because you are a sensible editor, please comment and, perhaps, make a suggestion to help clear away the logjam. Thank you. Iss246 ( talk) 01:04, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
im here-- Ozzie10aaaa ( talk) 17:07, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
I tried to reply to you and it shows the edit but I don’t know what I messed up - it’s not in the section. I’m definitely still learning how to use the talk pages correctly so if you can either fix it or let me know what I did wrong I’d appreciate it! Sorry for the inconvenience!! bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez ( User/ say hi!) 01:41, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
Yes it was through the mobile reply feature. I guess I’ll just try to avoid that in the future (aside from this reply) if it messes up. bɜ:ʳkənhɪmez ( User/ say hi!) 03:21, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
The Medicine proposed decision was posted -- Guerillero | Parlez Moi 14:29, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
Waid, I'm trying to work on the COVID-19 pandemic article, presently the South America section, but I am at my wit's end with how to figure out how to manage the type of editing method they are using at that article nor do I understand why it is assumed that editors must use a different editing method for that particular article. Even as I look back in an attempt to try to figure it out it does not make sense to me. See here [1] for example. This is from May 16 and yet when one looks at the South America section one sees copy that was added later (by me) and Ozzie's ref needed tag which sits there for no reason was actually added when a later edit by Doc left a paragraph without connection to the former ref... Even looking back into my edit record when I pull up my edits to the S.A. section they are not actually accurate. Could you please read the TP section I opened "Deletions in the South America section" and advise me? Gandydancer ( talk) 13:55, 30 May 2020 (UTC)
|tag=span
with the
excerpt template. But if a citation needed tag is needed, then it's also needed at the source article, so just click through and add it there. I sympathize that it's a new system that takes a bit to get used to and still has some kinks to be worked out, but on the whole it's a really useful feature for conserving editor resources. {{u|
Sdkb}}
talk 01:32, 5 June 2020 (UTC)
An arbitration case Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Medicine has now closed and the final decision is viewable at the link above. The following remedies have been enacted:
For the Arbitration Committee, Dreamy Jazz talk to me | my contributions 15:12, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.
You have shown interest in . Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect. Any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Wikipedia's policies, or the page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.
For additional information, please see the guidance on discretionary sanctions and the Arbitration Committee's decision here. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor.
This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.
You have shown interest in discussions about pharmaceutical drug prices and pricing and for edits adding, changing, or removing pharmaceutical drug prices or pricing from articles. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect. Any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Wikipedia's policies, or the page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.
For additional information, please see the guidance on discretionary sanctions and the Arbitration Committee's decision here. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor.
Barkeep49 ( talk) 02:53, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
On my talk page, you said: I think that you should self-revert this blanking. WP:TPO says to stop if anyone objects to you removing their comments, and it appears that there has been an objection. Removing is a much bigger step, with more potential to annoy editors, than boxing up or rapidly archiving a discussion, so it is meant to be avoided.
If you want to solve the underlying reason why the discussion is on that page, then perhaps you could create very low-carbohydrate ketogenic diet and redirect "keto diet" there, or suggest that they move that discussion to Talk:Type 3 diabetes, where a discussion about the ideal contents of Type 3 diabetes#Diet (which does not mention high-fat diets) would be obviously relevant. WhatamIdoing ( talk) 23:38, 3 June 2020 (UTC)
Should I do an RFC, or post to WT:MED ? [2] TS inherited this unnecessary mess and clutter as a result of the DJ apostrophe issue at Down’s, after which they came to TS. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 14:05, 21 June 2020 (UTC)