This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
A page you created, Myrton Baronets, has been tagged for deletion, as it meets one or more of the criteria for speedy deletion; specifically, it is about a real person, group of people, band, club, company, organisation, or web content, but does not indicate why its subject is important or significant.
You are welcome to contribute content which complies with our content policies and any applicable inclusion guidelines. However, please do not simply re-create the page with the same content. You may also wish to read our introduction to editing and guide to writing your first article.
Thank you. Becky Sayles ( talk) 08:55, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
Tryde, I just wanted to let you know that I fixed a few of your edits to the Herschel baronetcy page, in part b/c one of your changes was incorrect (Slough was in the county of Buckinghamshire, not Buckingham, which is a town), in part b/c one of the links you changed is not the actual name of the article in question (the article about John Herschel is titled "John Herschel", not "Sir John Herschel, 1st Baronet", so in fact you were creating an unnecessary layer of referral), and in part b/c there is no need to break up the first sentence and start a new one with "It was". Unless there is an absolute need for using it, "It was" is a redundant and unnecessary way to start a sentence, and the sentence was perfectly comprehensible as written. I had seen you doing this to some other baronetcy pages and had no problems with your changes (except "It was", but that's a minor thing), but the changes here were both incorrect and inaccurate, so I fixed. Pilch62 ( talk) 18:51, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
Hello. Your account has been granted the "reviewer" userright, allowing you to review other users' edits on certain flagged pages. Pending changes, also known as flagged protection, will be commencing a two-month trial at approximately 23:00, 2010 June 15 (UTC).
Reviewers can review edits made by users who are not autoconfirmed to articles placed under flagged protection. Flagged protection is applied to only a small number of articles, similarly to how semi-protection is applied but in a more controlled way for the trial.
When reviewing, edits should be accepted if they are not obvious vandalism or BLP violations, and not clearly problematic in light of the reason given for protection (see Wikipedia:Reviewing process). More detailed documentation and guidelines can be found here.
If you do not want this userright, you may ask any administrator to remove it for you at any time. Courcelles ( talk) 20:17, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
I have objected to your edit of the page List of Prime Ministers of the United Kingdom, which removed the PMs' constituencies and the given names of peer PMs. The nature of my objection is available here. My apologies - the edit is clearly made in good faith, but I disagree with it nonetheless. BartBassist ( talk) 09:24, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
Please note that people do not stop being baronets or knights bachelor when they are ennobled. The appropriate categories should be left in their articles. -- Necrothesp ( talk) 18:37, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
I believe Necrothesp has a good point. You have made a similar deletion to the categories in Richard Child, 1st Earl Tylney, by deleting his category as a Viscount in the Peerage of Ireland. Why? He was created Viscount Castlemain in 1718 on his own merit (actually he purchased it but nevermind!) which title he bore until 1731 when he was "promoted" to Earl Tylney. Your somewhat destructive edit has thus removed the Castlemain viscountcy entirely from the listing in the category Viscounts in the Peerage of Ireland. You should consider the purpose of the categories - as a source of reference, i.e. for someone who wants a list of all Irish viscountcies. Would the inclusion of Castlemain assist that reader or not? The answer is surely yes. Your edit has thus been reverted on this point.( Lobsterthermidor ( talk) 19:10, 7 October 2010 (UTC))
It looks like you have been trying to rename Baron Thring to Henry Thring, 1st Baron Thring by redirecting the first name to the second one. This does not work, because the second name is already a redirect to the first one. You need to move the article, including all its history, to the desired new title. You should be able to do this by using the "move" tool which (if you use the standard layout) you can find on the toolbar near the upper right corner of the page, next to the search box. If that doesn't work, then you can leave a request for help at WP:RM. -- R'n'B ( call me Russ) 09:53, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
I've raised the issue about User:Phoebus de Lusignan, although I probably would not have if I'd realised the editor had been replying to some people on their talk pages. Dougweller ( talk) 13:51, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
At what purpose are you reverting my edits? What's so bad about adding all the titles? Adding information isn't vandalism. What do you call to what you're doing? How can you have the nerve of blocking people for a totally arbitrary reason when they're doing some work? Phoebus de Lusignan ( talk) 15:35, 26 August 2010 (UTC) I don't care the titles appear lost among the pages of the titles, they don't appear on their holders' pages, that's why I added them in the first place. Phoebus de Lusignan ( talk) 15:37, 26 August 2010 (UTC) Should they be missing?... Phoebus de Lusignan ( talk) 15:37, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
Please do not remove content or templates from pages on Wikipedia, as you did to Earl of Shaftesbury, without giving a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Your content removal does not appear constructive, and has been reverted. Please make use of the sandbox if you'd like to experiment with test edits. Thank you. Cindamuse ( talk) 11:43, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
Please do not remove content or templates from pages on Wikipedia, as you did to Earl of Shaftesbury, without giving a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Your content removal does not appear constructive, and has been reverted. Please make use of the sandbox if you'd like to experiment with test edits. Again, please stop your disruptive editing. Cindamuse ( talk) 22:22, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
Why did you introduce the category Category:Earls in the Peerage of England? The existing Category:Earls of Pembroke (1138) already reports to that super-category. This just introduces a redundancy. You should consider deleting the category. Laurel Lodged ( talk) 12:01, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
You remove information in this edit. Why? My view is that doing so without an edit summary providing a valid reason is vandalism. Please consider this a warning against such actions. -- Tagishsimon (talk) 13:44, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
Your addition of Category:Earls in the Peerage of the United Kingdom to Harold Alexander, 1st Earl Alexander of Tunis was reverted with the explanation "Reverted good faith edits by Tryde; No need for this. sub cat:Earls Alexander of Tunis is already there." Similarly, your addition of the same category to Prince Edward, Earl of Wessex was reverted as a redundancy. However, you've continued to reinsert the category two more times at the article on Alexander (reverted both times by me with yet two more indications to you that the category is superfluous) and still we see you adding it to Victor Cavendish, 9th Duke of Devonshire. Please stop. As User:Kirrages noted, it is totally unnecessary to place the category into an article about an earl whose earldom already has its own category, as the latter already exists within the former. -- Ħ MIESIANIACAL 12:56, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
FYI - Some of your recent reverts prompted me to make a suggestion here: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Peerage_and_Baronetage#Propose_Adding_Information_About_Years_Title_Held. Adam sk ( talk) 00:04, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
I have started a talk page for this article, which I have started by questioning some of your latest edits. I will be adding some new data to this article presently, particularly under political career, Tylney family, patronage of Old Nollekens etc. Nomenclature is problematic, and requires, I hope, consensus. ( Lobsterthermidor ( talk) 13:34, 6 October 2010 (UTC))
Please do not move a page to a title that is harder to follow or move it unilaterally against naming conventions or consensus, as you did to James Dundas White. This includes making page moves while a discussion remains under way. We have some guidelines to help with deciding what title is best for a subject. If you would like to experiment with page titles and moving, please use the test Wikipedia. Thank you. Your recent move was not discussed and was contrary to Wikipedia naming conventions. We would need evidence that he was overwhelmingly known as J.D. White (even to his family and friends?) to go for that. PatGallacher ( talk) 10:22, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
You moved this article to Horace Marshall, 1st Baron Marshall of Chipstead. I'm not sure where you got this from, but according to both Who Was Who and The Times his title was Baron Marshall, of Chipstead, and not Baron Marshall of Chipstead. Also according to The Times he was known as Horace Brooks Marshall and not Horace Marshall. I have moved the article back to its original title. Thanks. -- Necrothesp ( talk) 11:06, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
Sorry, but I have undone your recent cat adds on the articles for the Earldoms of Angus, Mar and Cambridge. They are NOT extinct, the 14th Earl of Mar and Kellie is very much alive and well, and so is the 31st Countess of Mar. As far as the Earldoms of Angus and Cambridge are concerned they are both subsidiary titles of the Dukedom of Hamilton, the Earldom of Angus being the oldest of the present Duke's titles. Brendandh ( talk) 22:27, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Although in theory there is no problem with splitting articles, as you did with Duke of Atholl, there are issues with the way you have done this. First of all, it appears from the history as if you created the Earl of Atholl article when in reality you simply copied other people's work. This loses attribution, required by the GFDL. Secondly, there are no end of redirects to the Duke of Atholl page which need to be split between the two articles. And even when split, which does Marquess of Atholl belong to? And so on. Thirdly there may be links which go to the wrong place. All of these things can be resolved, but you should be aware of them when splitting articles. A final point to consider is that splits are generally only done when articles are too large. That wasn't obviously the case here. Angus McLellan (Talk) 11:21, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
On second thoughts, this split just doesn't work. There would be no end of work as redirects like " Earls of Atholl" can't be simply changed and it isn't clear whether links to Earl of Atholl should go to that article or to Duke of Atholl. Everything needs to be checked manually, which is a lot of work for nothing. I've undone the changes. Angus McLellan (Talk) 11:25, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
The whole area was hopelessly confused. There were spelling issues as well as titles issues. For example, "Baron Cahir", "Baron of Cahir", "Baron Caher", "Baron of Caher". It became necessary to take one as the most correct and then move all the best bits into that vehicle. Some transitory arrangements were necessary to give effect to this so as not to lose all material. Lastly, the Earl article had almost nothing in it that concerned the earldom. Almost all of it contained detail on the barony. Laurel Lodged ( talk) 13:08, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
Hi Tryde, I notice that in improving the succession box for Barnham Rider you've left quite full versions of the names visible. I'd have displayed them as plain Thomas Culpeper and John Finch. Is there a WP:MOS for names in succession boxes, or UK MP succession boxes (I can't find either, but that doesn't mean they aren't lurking somewhere!), or is it left to the whim/discretion of individual editor? Would have asked BHG but she seems to be having a real wikibreak and hasn't edited for a while. (Perhaps just as well that she's off the scene this week, given that Boleyn has become active again and is still creating work for other people.) Any thoughts? PamD ( talk) 09:59, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
In your lengthy and un-edit-summaried work on this page, while undoing my hand-crafted succession box which spanned the two parliaments you actually managed to leave it showing the Great Britain parliament for the pre-1707 section! Fixed. But I still think the months are important to show the 1701 changes. Unless there's an MOS or other guideline you can point to which prohibits the months, please don't delete them again. I see no reason to remove Edward's dates, which are given by Rayment - you didn't explain your removal, and I have replaced them. I can understand some of the changes you have made, but it's a courtesy to editors to be a bit more communicative when doing major edits to a page on which serious effort has been expended. PamD ( talk) 08:59, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
Hello,
maybe you have also information about barons of Langford from Gorges family? Couldn't you do that? ( By the way, don't you know about some references about Görges part of a family ( I mean how does the change happend) - and I'm shure it is, cause of family tree.
Thanks
-- Bironet ( talk) 18:17, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. Before saving your changes to an article, please provide an edit summary for your edits. Doing so helps everyone to understand the intention of your edit (and prevents legitimate edits from being mistaken for vandalism). It is also helpful to users reading the edit history of the page. Thank you. Cindamuse ( talk) 21:06, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
On 15 November 2010, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article James Murray (of Strowan), which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that after being wounded at the capture of Martinique, Lt-Gen. James Murray had to sleep sitting up for the rest of his life? You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page ( here's how, quick check) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page. |
The DYK project ( nominate) 06:02, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
Many thanks for starting the article Tryde! AssociateAffiliate ( talk) 13:49, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
Nice work in tidying up the article. Laurel Lodged ( talk) 12:45, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
Hello,
You have conducted a number of recent edits removing material, changing infobox (Infobox Officeholder) required data and placing a maintenance tag Cleanup without describing why on the discusion page. This is disturbing and with no comment on the article discussion or talk page primarily for the "cleanup tag" is unproductive and confusing.
When placing a "cleanup" tag, please describe why. What part of Wikipedia standards that are being violated is important to creating better article? This is very important for a reviewer to do. It helps Wikipedia become better.
You have also removed a whole section of each article on the family's "Coat of Arms" as "irrelevant."
You may not be aware, but in the Portal:Genealogy, coat of arms are desired in such articles. Since every article is considered independent, the infomation is placed in each article. The "Coat of Arms" is relevant to the article. Just clicking on the Portal:Genealogy you will see a coat of arms, that should be a major clue. In addition, complete names and titles are needed in such articles in the lede. The primary reason is due to a similarity of names and titles over generations. In addtion, while European standards use the title in the article, Wikipedia uses the surname instead.
I hope this explains most items of concern. The articles in question are:
I am reverting your recent edits, and based on the information above, you can start over, as needed, with any "Cleanup" tag provided you provide a clue or two why in the discussion page. This is not an "edit war" but a desire to explain reasons why some things are needed in the article, info box and in the article. I hope you will take this in a positive and constructive manner.
And yes, most of these articles are just at or above start class. They need more information and detail. And constructive edits are always welcome. Thank you. Jrcrin001 ( talk) 18:31, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
Hello again,
Regarding "Coat of Arms" in articles. Please see the article of the month: Roosevelt family#Coat of arms and Roosevelt (surname)#Coat of arms. These COAs sections are about as large as the "Carpenter Coat of Arms" section. The difference is the explanation NOTE: paragraph (which makes the Carpenter version slightly larger), which could be placed in a note section if size is a direct concern. If these Carpenter title articles were expanded, this is what I would do.
The infobox is the Template:Infobox officeholder in the general format covers MPs and such. Template:Infobox peerage title might be a more appropiate infobox. What do you think? Unless they were public or life officer holders in England?
Peerage is a rank of aristocracy and honors. The term "peerage" technically refers to a subset of the complete system of titles of nobility. Example: William de Ufford, 2nd Earl of Suffolk. And yes, I may be wrong in the use of "Lord" or "Earl" in the lede name portion in Wikipedia. It is not very clear in Wikipedia where peerage style is used differently from other biographical articles. I am far from perfect! I do make mistakes, including stupid ones! And yes, Lord is used on articles in Wikipedia both ways, for example: Lord Colin Campbell. See the following for more.
Please see: Wikipedia:WikiProject Peerage and Baronetage for general rules for standardizing such articles. There it hints the term earl or baron is used in the name only if the person was commonly known as such. Regarding barons & earls; earls, countesses, viscounts, viscountesses, barons, and baronesses bear the styles of The Right Honourable and Lordship in the infobox.
Lord can denote a prince or a feudal superior. The title today is mostly used in connection with the peerage of the United Kingdom. The title 'Lord' is used most often by barons who are rarely addressed with any other. The style of this address is 'Lord (X)', for example, Alfred Tennyson, 1st Baron Tennyson, is commonly known as 'Lord Tennyson'. The ranks of marquess, earl and viscounts commonly use lord as well, with viscounts using the same style as used for baron. However, marquesses and earls have a slightly different form of address where they can be called either the 'Marquess/Earl of (X)' or 'Lord (X)'. The title, lord also applies by courtesy to some or all of their children; for example the sons of a title lord can use the style 'Lord (first name) (surname)'. rational, is that the senior surviving male child will inherit the title. This is extracted from the Wikipedia article on Lord.
Thus Lord George Carpenter if used in Wikipedia would be correct in the lede followed by the title. Properly one would use Lord Carpenter in the rest of the article provided he held that title for most of his life. Unless he was commonly known otherwise. Before one of the George Carpenter's sons held the barony or earldom, the courtesy title of Lord George Carpenter could apply until elevated after the death of his sire, then when he would be properly be known as Lord Carpenter.
Once George Carpenter became an earl, he could be referred to as Lord Carpenter or Earl of Tyrconnell within the article, and within the lede as Lord George Carpenter folowed by the title.
From the article of Earl of Tyrconnell is the Baron & Earl hereditary lineage that is from father to son until the titles became extinct. This surname Carpenter is less than 3% (surnames less than 3% was lumped together) of the surnames in England. The same infobox is used through out these articles for consistantcy. In the USA, Carpenter is the 189th-most common surname.
Baron Carpenter (of Killaghy) (1719)
Earls of Tyrconnell, fourth creation (1761)
FYI, this pacticular Carpenter "Coat of Arms" has been used since the early 1400s in England by one family. After 1853, by daughtering out and marriages that COAs continue to the present with William Boyd Carpenter and his descendents. Thomas Boyd-Carpenter, son of John Boyd-Carpenter, Baron Boyd-Carpenter holds today this pacticular COAs. Jrcrin001 ( talk) 00:02, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
There are some 20 plus Carpenter COAs, but the one referring to this line is the often referred to as the Hereford Arms. In the articles, I tried to provide a history of where they had been and where they went similar to succession box in prose. I think you are suggesting writing a Carpenter Coat of Arms (Hereford) type article, then referring to it via {Main|Carpenter Coat of Arms (Hereford)} in each article? Then the Coat of Arms section of the other articles can be truncated? (last questions for now!)
Regarding your recent edits. I have learned some are correct, some are so-so and I think a few may be wrong. But, based on compromise and discussion, your goal and mine are better articles on Wikipedia. So I will not quibble on the few. And I do appreciate your time, patience and effort. I started to incorporate several of the items we discussed above and you completed and expanded upon them. Thank you. Jrcrin001 ( talk) 16:47, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
A page you created, Myrton Baronets, has been tagged for deletion, as it meets one or more of the criteria for speedy deletion; specifically, it is about a real person, group of people, band, club, company, organisation, or web content, but does not indicate why its subject is important or significant.
You are welcome to contribute content which complies with our content policies and any applicable inclusion guidelines. However, please do not simply re-create the page with the same content. You may also wish to read our introduction to editing and guide to writing your first article.
Thank you. Becky Sayles ( talk) 08:55, 3 June 2010 (UTC)
Tryde, I just wanted to let you know that I fixed a few of your edits to the Herschel baronetcy page, in part b/c one of your changes was incorrect (Slough was in the county of Buckinghamshire, not Buckingham, which is a town), in part b/c one of the links you changed is not the actual name of the article in question (the article about John Herschel is titled "John Herschel", not "Sir John Herschel, 1st Baronet", so in fact you were creating an unnecessary layer of referral), and in part b/c there is no need to break up the first sentence and start a new one with "It was". Unless there is an absolute need for using it, "It was" is a redundant and unnecessary way to start a sentence, and the sentence was perfectly comprehensible as written. I had seen you doing this to some other baronetcy pages and had no problems with your changes (except "It was", but that's a minor thing), but the changes here were both incorrect and inaccurate, so I fixed. Pilch62 ( talk) 18:51, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
Hello. Your account has been granted the "reviewer" userright, allowing you to review other users' edits on certain flagged pages. Pending changes, also known as flagged protection, will be commencing a two-month trial at approximately 23:00, 2010 June 15 (UTC).
Reviewers can review edits made by users who are not autoconfirmed to articles placed under flagged protection. Flagged protection is applied to only a small number of articles, similarly to how semi-protection is applied but in a more controlled way for the trial.
When reviewing, edits should be accepted if they are not obvious vandalism or BLP violations, and not clearly problematic in light of the reason given for protection (see Wikipedia:Reviewing process). More detailed documentation and guidelines can be found here.
If you do not want this userright, you may ask any administrator to remove it for you at any time. Courcelles ( talk) 20:17, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
I have objected to your edit of the page List of Prime Ministers of the United Kingdom, which removed the PMs' constituencies and the given names of peer PMs. The nature of my objection is available here. My apologies - the edit is clearly made in good faith, but I disagree with it nonetheless. BartBassist ( talk) 09:24, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
Please note that people do not stop being baronets or knights bachelor when they are ennobled. The appropriate categories should be left in their articles. -- Necrothesp ( talk) 18:37, 21 August 2010 (UTC)
I believe Necrothesp has a good point. You have made a similar deletion to the categories in Richard Child, 1st Earl Tylney, by deleting his category as a Viscount in the Peerage of Ireland. Why? He was created Viscount Castlemain in 1718 on his own merit (actually he purchased it but nevermind!) which title he bore until 1731 when he was "promoted" to Earl Tylney. Your somewhat destructive edit has thus removed the Castlemain viscountcy entirely from the listing in the category Viscounts in the Peerage of Ireland. You should consider the purpose of the categories - as a source of reference, i.e. for someone who wants a list of all Irish viscountcies. Would the inclusion of Castlemain assist that reader or not? The answer is surely yes. Your edit has thus been reverted on this point.( Lobsterthermidor ( talk) 19:10, 7 October 2010 (UTC))
It looks like you have been trying to rename Baron Thring to Henry Thring, 1st Baron Thring by redirecting the first name to the second one. This does not work, because the second name is already a redirect to the first one. You need to move the article, including all its history, to the desired new title. You should be able to do this by using the "move" tool which (if you use the standard layout) you can find on the toolbar near the upper right corner of the page, next to the search box. If that doesn't work, then you can leave a request for help at WP:RM. -- R'n'B ( call me Russ) 09:53, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
I've raised the issue about User:Phoebus de Lusignan, although I probably would not have if I'd realised the editor had been replying to some people on their talk pages. Dougweller ( talk) 13:51, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
At what purpose are you reverting my edits? What's so bad about adding all the titles? Adding information isn't vandalism. What do you call to what you're doing? How can you have the nerve of blocking people for a totally arbitrary reason when they're doing some work? Phoebus de Lusignan ( talk) 15:35, 26 August 2010 (UTC) I don't care the titles appear lost among the pages of the titles, they don't appear on their holders' pages, that's why I added them in the first place. Phoebus de Lusignan ( talk) 15:37, 26 August 2010 (UTC) Should they be missing?... Phoebus de Lusignan ( talk) 15:37, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
Please do not remove content or templates from pages on Wikipedia, as you did to Earl of Shaftesbury, without giving a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Your content removal does not appear constructive, and has been reverted. Please make use of the sandbox if you'd like to experiment with test edits. Thank you. Cindamuse ( talk) 11:43, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
Please do not remove content or templates from pages on Wikipedia, as you did to Earl of Shaftesbury, without giving a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Your content removal does not appear constructive, and has been reverted. Please make use of the sandbox if you'd like to experiment with test edits. Again, please stop your disruptive editing. Cindamuse ( talk) 22:22, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
Why did you introduce the category Category:Earls in the Peerage of England? The existing Category:Earls of Pembroke (1138) already reports to that super-category. This just introduces a redundancy. You should consider deleting the category. Laurel Lodged ( talk) 12:01, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
You remove information in this edit. Why? My view is that doing so without an edit summary providing a valid reason is vandalism. Please consider this a warning against such actions. -- Tagishsimon (talk) 13:44, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
Your addition of Category:Earls in the Peerage of the United Kingdom to Harold Alexander, 1st Earl Alexander of Tunis was reverted with the explanation "Reverted good faith edits by Tryde; No need for this. sub cat:Earls Alexander of Tunis is already there." Similarly, your addition of the same category to Prince Edward, Earl of Wessex was reverted as a redundancy. However, you've continued to reinsert the category two more times at the article on Alexander (reverted both times by me with yet two more indications to you that the category is superfluous) and still we see you adding it to Victor Cavendish, 9th Duke of Devonshire. Please stop. As User:Kirrages noted, it is totally unnecessary to place the category into an article about an earl whose earldom already has its own category, as the latter already exists within the former. -- Ħ MIESIANIACAL 12:56, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
FYI - Some of your recent reverts prompted me to make a suggestion here: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Peerage_and_Baronetage#Propose_Adding_Information_About_Years_Title_Held. Adam sk ( talk) 00:04, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
I have started a talk page for this article, which I have started by questioning some of your latest edits. I will be adding some new data to this article presently, particularly under political career, Tylney family, patronage of Old Nollekens etc. Nomenclature is problematic, and requires, I hope, consensus. ( Lobsterthermidor ( talk) 13:34, 6 October 2010 (UTC))
Please do not move a page to a title that is harder to follow or move it unilaterally against naming conventions or consensus, as you did to James Dundas White. This includes making page moves while a discussion remains under way. We have some guidelines to help with deciding what title is best for a subject. If you would like to experiment with page titles and moving, please use the test Wikipedia. Thank you. Your recent move was not discussed and was contrary to Wikipedia naming conventions. We would need evidence that he was overwhelmingly known as J.D. White (even to his family and friends?) to go for that. PatGallacher ( talk) 10:22, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
You moved this article to Horace Marshall, 1st Baron Marshall of Chipstead. I'm not sure where you got this from, but according to both Who Was Who and The Times his title was Baron Marshall, of Chipstead, and not Baron Marshall of Chipstead. Also according to The Times he was known as Horace Brooks Marshall and not Horace Marshall. I have moved the article back to its original title. Thanks. -- Necrothesp ( talk) 11:06, 17 October 2010 (UTC)
Sorry, but I have undone your recent cat adds on the articles for the Earldoms of Angus, Mar and Cambridge. They are NOT extinct, the 14th Earl of Mar and Kellie is very much alive and well, and so is the 31st Countess of Mar. As far as the Earldoms of Angus and Cambridge are concerned they are both subsidiary titles of the Dukedom of Hamilton, the Earldom of Angus being the oldest of the present Duke's titles. Brendandh ( talk) 22:27, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
Although in theory there is no problem with splitting articles, as you did with Duke of Atholl, there are issues with the way you have done this. First of all, it appears from the history as if you created the Earl of Atholl article when in reality you simply copied other people's work. This loses attribution, required by the GFDL. Secondly, there are no end of redirects to the Duke of Atholl page which need to be split between the two articles. And even when split, which does Marquess of Atholl belong to? And so on. Thirdly there may be links which go to the wrong place. All of these things can be resolved, but you should be aware of them when splitting articles. A final point to consider is that splits are generally only done when articles are too large. That wasn't obviously the case here. Angus McLellan (Talk) 11:21, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
On second thoughts, this split just doesn't work. There would be no end of work as redirects like " Earls of Atholl" can't be simply changed and it isn't clear whether links to Earl of Atholl should go to that article or to Duke of Atholl. Everything needs to be checked manually, which is a lot of work for nothing. I've undone the changes. Angus McLellan (Talk) 11:25, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
The whole area was hopelessly confused. There were spelling issues as well as titles issues. For example, "Baron Cahir", "Baron of Cahir", "Baron Caher", "Baron of Caher". It became necessary to take one as the most correct and then move all the best bits into that vehicle. Some transitory arrangements were necessary to give effect to this so as not to lose all material. Lastly, the Earl article had almost nothing in it that concerned the earldom. Almost all of it contained detail on the barony. Laurel Lodged ( talk) 13:08, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
Hi Tryde, I notice that in improving the succession box for Barnham Rider you've left quite full versions of the names visible. I'd have displayed them as plain Thomas Culpeper and John Finch. Is there a WP:MOS for names in succession boxes, or UK MP succession boxes (I can't find either, but that doesn't mean they aren't lurking somewhere!), or is it left to the whim/discretion of individual editor? Would have asked BHG but she seems to be having a real wikibreak and hasn't edited for a while. (Perhaps just as well that she's off the scene this week, given that Boleyn has become active again and is still creating work for other people.) Any thoughts? PamD ( talk) 09:59, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
In your lengthy and un-edit-summaried work on this page, while undoing my hand-crafted succession box which spanned the two parliaments you actually managed to leave it showing the Great Britain parliament for the pre-1707 section! Fixed. But I still think the months are important to show the 1701 changes. Unless there's an MOS or other guideline you can point to which prohibits the months, please don't delete them again. I see no reason to remove Edward's dates, which are given by Rayment - you didn't explain your removal, and I have replaced them. I can understand some of the changes you have made, but it's a courtesy to editors to be a bit more communicative when doing major edits to a page on which serious effort has been expended. PamD ( talk) 08:59, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
Hello,
maybe you have also information about barons of Langford from Gorges family? Couldn't you do that? ( By the way, don't you know about some references about Görges part of a family ( I mean how does the change happend) - and I'm shure it is, cause of family tree.
Thanks
-- Bironet ( talk) 18:17, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
Thank you for your contributions to Wikipedia. Before saving your changes to an article, please provide an edit summary for your edits. Doing so helps everyone to understand the intention of your edit (and prevents legitimate edits from being mistaken for vandalism). It is also helpful to users reading the edit history of the page. Thank you. Cindamuse ( talk) 21:06, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
On 15 November 2010, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article James Murray (of Strowan), which you created or substantially expanded. The fact was ... that after being wounded at the capture of Martinique, Lt-Gen. James Murray had to sleep sitting up for the rest of his life? You are welcome to check how many hits the article got while on the front page ( here's how, quick check) and add it to DYKSTATS if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the Did you know? talk page. |
The DYK project ( nominate) 06:02, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
Many thanks for starting the article Tryde! AssociateAffiliate ( talk) 13:49, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
Nice work in tidying up the article. Laurel Lodged ( talk) 12:45, 6 December 2010 (UTC)
Hello,
You have conducted a number of recent edits removing material, changing infobox (Infobox Officeholder) required data and placing a maintenance tag Cleanup without describing why on the discusion page. This is disturbing and with no comment on the article discussion or talk page primarily for the "cleanup tag" is unproductive and confusing.
When placing a "cleanup" tag, please describe why. What part of Wikipedia standards that are being violated is important to creating better article? This is very important for a reviewer to do. It helps Wikipedia become better.
You have also removed a whole section of each article on the family's "Coat of Arms" as "irrelevant."
You may not be aware, but in the Portal:Genealogy, coat of arms are desired in such articles. Since every article is considered independent, the infomation is placed in each article. The "Coat of Arms" is relevant to the article. Just clicking on the Portal:Genealogy you will see a coat of arms, that should be a major clue. In addition, complete names and titles are needed in such articles in the lede. The primary reason is due to a similarity of names and titles over generations. In addtion, while European standards use the title in the article, Wikipedia uses the surname instead.
I hope this explains most items of concern. The articles in question are:
I am reverting your recent edits, and based on the information above, you can start over, as needed, with any "Cleanup" tag provided you provide a clue or two why in the discussion page. This is not an "edit war" but a desire to explain reasons why some things are needed in the article, info box and in the article. I hope you will take this in a positive and constructive manner.
And yes, most of these articles are just at or above start class. They need more information and detail. And constructive edits are always welcome. Thank you. Jrcrin001 ( talk) 18:31, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
Hello again,
Regarding "Coat of Arms" in articles. Please see the article of the month: Roosevelt family#Coat of arms and Roosevelt (surname)#Coat of arms. These COAs sections are about as large as the "Carpenter Coat of Arms" section. The difference is the explanation NOTE: paragraph (which makes the Carpenter version slightly larger), which could be placed in a note section if size is a direct concern. If these Carpenter title articles were expanded, this is what I would do.
The infobox is the Template:Infobox officeholder in the general format covers MPs and such. Template:Infobox peerage title might be a more appropiate infobox. What do you think? Unless they were public or life officer holders in England?
Peerage is a rank of aristocracy and honors. The term "peerage" technically refers to a subset of the complete system of titles of nobility. Example: William de Ufford, 2nd Earl of Suffolk. And yes, I may be wrong in the use of "Lord" or "Earl" in the lede name portion in Wikipedia. It is not very clear in Wikipedia where peerage style is used differently from other biographical articles. I am far from perfect! I do make mistakes, including stupid ones! And yes, Lord is used on articles in Wikipedia both ways, for example: Lord Colin Campbell. See the following for more.
Please see: Wikipedia:WikiProject Peerage and Baronetage for general rules for standardizing such articles. There it hints the term earl or baron is used in the name only if the person was commonly known as such. Regarding barons & earls; earls, countesses, viscounts, viscountesses, barons, and baronesses bear the styles of The Right Honourable and Lordship in the infobox.
Lord can denote a prince or a feudal superior. The title today is mostly used in connection with the peerage of the United Kingdom. The title 'Lord' is used most often by barons who are rarely addressed with any other. The style of this address is 'Lord (X)', for example, Alfred Tennyson, 1st Baron Tennyson, is commonly known as 'Lord Tennyson'. The ranks of marquess, earl and viscounts commonly use lord as well, with viscounts using the same style as used for baron. However, marquesses and earls have a slightly different form of address where they can be called either the 'Marquess/Earl of (X)' or 'Lord (X)'. The title, lord also applies by courtesy to some or all of their children; for example the sons of a title lord can use the style 'Lord (first name) (surname)'. rational, is that the senior surviving male child will inherit the title. This is extracted from the Wikipedia article on Lord.
Thus Lord George Carpenter if used in Wikipedia would be correct in the lede followed by the title. Properly one would use Lord Carpenter in the rest of the article provided he held that title for most of his life. Unless he was commonly known otherwise. Before one of the George Carpenter's sons held the barony or earldom, the courtesy title of Lord George Carpenter could apply until elevated after the death of his sire, then when he would be properly be known as Lord Carpenter.
Once George Carpenter became an earl, he could be referred to as Lord Carpenter or Earl of Tyrconnell within the article, and within the lede as Lord George Carpenter folowed by the title.
From the article of Earl of Tyrconnell is the Baron & Earl hereditary lineage that is from father to son until the titles became extinct. This surname Carpenter is less than 3% (surnames less than 3% was lumped together) of the surnames in England. The same infobox is used through out these articles for consistantcy. In the USA, Carpenter is the 189th-most common surname.
Baron Carpenter (of Killaghy) (1719)
Earls of Tyrconnell, fourth creation (1761)
FYI, this pacticular Carpenter "Coat of Arms" has been used since the early 1400s in England by one family. After 1853, by daughtering out and marriages that COAs continue to the present with William Boyd Carpenter and his descendents. Thomas Boyd-Carpenter, son of John Boyd-Carpenter, Baron Boyd-Carpenter holds today this pacticular COAs. Jrcrin001 ( talk) 00:02, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
There are some 20 plus Carpenter COAs, but the one referring to this line is the often referred to as the Hereford Arms. In the articles, I tried to provide a history of where they had been and where they went similar to succession box in prose. I think you are suggesting writing a Carpenter Coat of Arms (Hereford) type article, then referring to it via {Main|Carpenter Coat of Arms (Hereford)} in each article? Then the Coat of Arms section of the other articles can be truncated? (last questions for now!)
Regarding your recent edits. I have learned some are correct, some are so-so and I think a few may be wrong. But, based on compromise and discussion, your goal and mine are better articles on Wikipedia. So I will not quibble on the few. And I do appreciate your time, patience and effort. I started to incorporate several of the items we discussed above and you completed and expanded upon them. Thank you. Jrcrin001 ( talk) 16:47, 10 December 2010 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |