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Yes, the latest issue was on Wolfowitz' BLP. I'm sorry I didn't provide context; I rushed those two noticeboard posts, and I'm always wary of maybe revealing too much given the sensitivity of this conflict. I've had a longstanding issue with DS inserting links to his own Wikinews articles - he's done it perhaps a dozen times - but after our conflict on that arbcom case (THF-DavidShankBone) I let it drop. When he started editing THF's BLP again, that's when I started watching again. ATren 17:06, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
I'm detaching from this conflict. I'm sick of being attacked ( "And now we have the other ArbCom warrior who is also adept at trolling my edits") every time I object to David's edits. I've been civil through all my dealings with him, even when he was raising an unrelated year-old dispute in every discussion. It's clear he will never let this thing go, and it's also clear that nobody is willing to do anything about it. If you have any questions about my involvement with David, feel free to ask. I stand by everything I've every done in that conflict. ATren 17:47, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
I realize you may be busy; I'm new at this complainin' stuff and read of your involvement with 141 in a dispute. I want to flag up his continued disruption to improvements sought by reasonable editors of the Presley article. Can someone like you take a look? 141 is on the verge of driving good people away for good - including me. If we have to take a particular course of action, I worry it will be time consuming. Thank you anyway. Rikstar 13:11, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
Please note Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Raul654. You may or may not want to certify the basis for that dispute. I used your request upon Raul654 as part of the evidence. ~ UBeR ( talk) 06:08, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
I am confused: why you block Giovanni Giove but don't block flamer DIREKTOR who violating his restriction in editing???? Why DIREKTOR edits in Istrian exodus???? Regards, LEO 17 nov 2007
Sorry to bother you, but on
User:Giovanni Giove's talkpage you stated: "You can report violations by DIREKTOR at
WP:AE. Thatcher131
02:09, 17 November 2007 (UTC)".
I'd just like to no if you were talking in general or refering to specific violations, in other words, did I violate the restriction somehow?
DIREKTOR (
TALK)
11:27, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
As for the Istrian exodus matter, I reverted once on 22nd October and once more on the 17th of November (History page: [6]). While an "unidentified" IP user made huge (badly spelled) reverts far more frequently than once per week, his frequent grammar mistakes are looking oddly familiar. DIREKTOR ( TALK) 11:32, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
Right, thnx. DIREKTOR ( TALK) 13:08, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
Yes, thank you.
You might also be interested to view User talk:Ragusan#Confirmed sockpuppet. User:Ragusino and User:Raguseo are probably him. -- PaxEquilibrium ( talk) 12:19, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
I was always interested in bots, but never really got to find out about them. Could you lend me some aid perhaps? Cheers. -- PaxEquilibrium ( talk) 15:51, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
A page to which you have significant contributions, RfC/U, is up for deletion here. -- Jreferee t/ c 06:40, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
i just saw your comment on Dalmatia 2 and wanted to say thanks for your involvement. These two need to be separated, wouldn't you agree? -- Gp75motorsports ( talk) 19:16, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
Thank You for starting of RFCU.
Now that You've cleared mine status, it'd be nice if You request CU's (checkuser's) services regarding user Giovanni Giove and its possible sockpuppets/meatpuppets.
Personally, I thought that user DIREKTOR was Giove's strawpuppet (I've told that to user DIREKTOR on his talkpage, see
User_talk:DIREKTOR/Archive_2).
Now, let's return to Giovanni Giove. I was postponing my request for CU regarding Giove's case, because I was busy on other articles (different topics), in which I came to situations that I required CU's services. Too much requesting for those might seem annoying (especially if my suspicions prove wrong; that way I'll risk CU's ignorance towards my requests, and I don't want that), unless you give good "coverage" for your suspicions.
One cannot go to checkuser and say "I think it's him, check it".
But, I believe that admin can do that. I think that we may have a puppet theater... Compare the edits from
user:Giovanni Giove,
user:Cherso,
user:RomanoDD,
user:London321 (similar interest, "intervention" with same edits when 3RR was about to occur, registration solely for the purpose of support...).
Possibly the latter three are accounts of some previously banned users (
user:GiorgioOrsini,
user:NovaNova).
Also, there's a possibility that it might be the person with whome Giove and/or Orsini are in contact. Though, in that case, we cannot do anything, because we're dealing with the 3rd person.
Also, it's possible that Giove, Orsini or their lookalikes act from an other computer, from other location (public library, faculty, internet club...). The IP check might not be helpful anymore, but the edit pattern and vocabulary etc. is easy to recognise.
Regarding user:Argyriou (that appeared out of nowhere on almost closed RFARB and on WP:AN/Incidents, after being months away... to defend Giove???).
Read his conversations and attitude toward the opponents (e.g. "You are not welcome to post on my talk page any more"
[7] from 23 Feb 2007). That's our "discussion boy". His too easy use of words like "fanatical nationalist" might be understood as personal attack.
If You want to see more of his discussion approach, see the
Talk:Republic of Dubrovnik/Archive 1. Just type "Αργυριου" or "Argiriou". There You'll see my discussion with him.
Also, please, read Argyriou's message on
Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_arbitration/Dalmatia: "User:Kubura was utterly unwilling to actually discuss anything - he merely restated that he was right, and that anyone else was wrong, and reverted any edit which did not agree with his extreme-nationalist POV."
[8].
"Extreme nationalism"
[9] is very heavy word. That's etiquetting. Does he know the meaning of that expression at all?
"Kubura...unwilling to discuss anything"
[10]? That's blatant lie. Just type Ctrl+F and "Kubura" and read my messages on the
Talk:Republic of Dubrovnik/Archive 1. Those with external links to academic institutions.
"... User:Giovanni Giove...was amenable to reasonable discussion"??? Argyriou wrote that on 13 Oct 2007, after I wrote all my evidence on the RFARB. Has he ever read what I wrote there? Has Argyriou ever read any content of the talkpages of disputed articles?
Personally, I was mostly present on
Talk:Jakov Mikalja and
Talk:Republic of Dubrovnik, and I'm mostly familiar with the all discussions on those pages (I've visited some other article and article talkpages, but I'm not that familiar with all discussions there).
When one is pointing a finger to someone in order to blame him/her, also have in mind who pointed the finger.
Sorry for being too long, but I needed to provide You more info regarding those accusers.
I hope this'd be helpful. If You need any comments or explanations, please, contact me.
Kubura (
talk)
11:10, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
Regarding user:Argyriou, here's more [11]. Recent block, 18 Oct 2007. Kubura ( talk) 13:34, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
I can start it, but it'd be fair if you start it (since you've already started an RFCU regarding me
[12],
[13]).
To be correct, your starting of an RFCU hurted me. What did I do in the Dalmatia case, that it woke your suspicion towards me... and, on the other hand, you haven't done a bit to investigate Giove's behaviour (just read the RFARB/Dalmatia/Evidence and the talkpages of that case), nor filed an RFCU against his possible sockpuppets/meatpuppets? What does make Giove more "cooperating" than me?
Also, the RFCU that you've started isn't correctly fullfilled. You gave a request to investigate relations between me, "user:Anto", user:DIREKTOR and user:Raguseo.
"User:Anto" doesn't exist at all, it's only in his signature. You should have point with the mouse over his signature, and you'd see then his username.
Please, be thorough, Thatcher. If you did so in the "studying" of this case, then it worries me.
You mention the expanding of the sanctions (???), "if the editors he was warring against have been acting in concert". Not to mention the "elevating" the case to higher wiki-instances.
Look better. Giove's opponents weren't acting in concert, the opponents were mostly trying to discuss with him, see the talkpage (few of them did violated 3RR: DIREKTOR and No.13).
In fact, if you've noticed, on the RFARB/Dalmatia/Evidence, I wasn't reporting Giove's 3RR violations: I've pointed towards completely different problems in Giove's behaviour, that I find more serious. Ordinary violation of 3RR rule doesn't need an RFARB to be sanctioned.
Did you know that I've tried to communicate with Giove directly (besides all article talkpages)? You cannot see that in his talkpage, because Giove hasn't archived his talkpage, but simply deleted it. So here's my message that I've posted to him on 26 June 2007
[14]. Then follow the discussion (other Croatian users 've tried to talk with him also, you'll see that). Then you'll see that you're dealing with a troll (I must use that word, I allow that to myself after over 14 months of arguing with him).
Now, I'll return to my message from yesterday. I was following the discussion on the talk:Republic of Dubrovnik, but since DIREKTOR began flooding the talk with his posts, I've ...abstained a bit, and to tell the truth, I wasn't reading the tirade and arguing that followed; only few times I've posted.
Sincerely,
Kubura (
talk)
07:28, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
I moved this template, for I thought it didn't make any sense to have it in the user space :). Let's free the userfied templates, brothers! -- lucasbfr talk 09:03, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
You may be interested in commenting at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Wikinews redux. Cool Hand Luke 21:53, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
Dear Thatcher,
I was hoping you could advise me on what I think may become a problem. I recently went through a long but quite civil discussion with another editor (Fuzzypeg) about the "controversy" section of the Church and School of Wicca article, concerning the defamation of the founder of the organization and the presence of a section that contained a good deal of non-factual evidence, was based on a single mis-quoted article, and which was contradicted and/or clarified by other articles by the same author. The discussion went well, and we came to an agreement. However, a new editor who has never contributed to Wikipedia has ignored all that and returned the entire text, and has accused me of being "associated" with the founder (which I am not, except that years ago he spoke at an event I help organize, as have over a hundred speakers).
Just to give you what I think is an important piece of background, there is an individual who has been pursuing a campaign against this Church and the founders named A.J. Drew. He has been the organizer of an event called The Real Witches' Ball for many years, and this year he lost all his major speakers because he announced, and then hosted, a ritual there in which effigies of the founders were molested in front of the attendees. I suspect that this new editor may be a sympathizer with Drew's cause, or might actually be him. His behaviour has ostracized him with the majority of the Neo-Pagan community, and by his own admission may result in the end of his event and a lawsuit as well. But he continues to pursue this course.
I do NOT wish to be part of a flame war, but I feel that the edits I made were well justified and documented. I hope you will take the time to review them on the talk page of the article, and perhaps advise me as to how I can stop the article from being a vehicle for character assasination rather than a description of the subject. Thanks in advance. Rosencomet ( talk) 18:04, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
Bravo — I think that was a good call. I was trying to move it in that direction at the end, but you know... -- Haemo ( talk) 06:26, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
Hi, could you please explain what exactly you have done with archiving? There were several pages where discussion was ongoing. Than you made several moves, deletions, etc and I can't make sense of what happened. What exactly did you move, copied, pasted and where? TIA, -- Irpen ( talk) 19:01, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
Beh-nam, you should probably read Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/E104421-Tajik, especially Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/E104421-Tajik/Proposed decision. Eight Arbitrators endorsed the finding of fact that Tajik had engaged in sockpuppetry to continue editing while claiming to be "too busy" to engage in mediation (which he had agreed to do to avoid arbitration). Even if some of the alleged sockpuppets are not him (which I am not in a position to evaluate) the broad finding remains, and has been endorsed by Arbitrators who do have access to the checkuser information. As I have explained to Tajik many times (and the idea that the anonymous person posting repeatedly to my talk page, as well as emailing me, and posting other places, is not Tajik himself is just silly) he may appeal to the Arbitration committee. Thatcher131 00:01, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
Dear Thatcher, I posted this on ANI as well. User:Beh-nam keeps insulting me on my talk page, he did so today for a second time [16]. The previous attempt was in September [17]. Atabek ( talk) 14:51, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
Very weak, Thatcher. You had been told before that Tajik did try to contact the Arbitration Committee. But his mails are being ignored. The same way, he has told many times that you ignore his mails. And most recently, User:Ali_doostzadeh has requested an investigation, and his emails are being ignored as well. I took this to User:Jimbo Wales and also asked Tajik to write a short comment. But admins once again ignored. This is not a mistake or failure of Tajik. It all started with you and your injust block. And it continues to this day. And what surprises me most is that you are now even threatening User:Beh-nam. What the hell is wrong with you, Thatcher?! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.83.137.44 ( talk) 04:26, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
Since you're an Arbitration Committee clerk, I thought I'd let you know about the above templates.... I have converted these to use the new ambox format. Feel free to revert me if you want. I made these changes so the templates would look better.
Thanks, -- Solumeiras talk 16:23, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
The Barnstar of Good Humor | ||
for the following links: |
recycling and bigfoot. Kwsn (Ni!) 05:38, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
Hi. Following up here on your question on the Signpost article talkpage (since as Ral315 indicates that's probably not a sensible place for this). I was working off what appears to be the current version of the Foundation resolution, updated in June. This one has a slightly different wording of paragraph 2. In particular, note how the word "including" age verification is changed to "which may include." Then in paragraph 4, the resolution specifically applies to checkusers, oversighters, and stewards, but does not expressly mention arbitration committees (even though one of the Board members is a former arbitrator herself and served on the committee with an underage member, so the issue must have crossed her mind). The inference I drew was that the Board had decided to leave the issue of whether arbitrators must meet the age requirement as a local decision, or at a minimum, that the policy was ambiguous and could reasonably be construed in this way. Newyorkbrad ( talk) 16:09, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
Please note this - it is my intention to unban/unblock Deeceevoice from editing on Afrocentrism and other topical articles, as her most recent edits seem to me to be constructive, and she seems to be making an effort to engage others constructively (and effort, I note, that in my opinion has not been reciprocated by one or two other editors). I hope this is sufficient. I will be travelling for a few days and will not have access to Wikipedia - if any technical changes must be made I hope another sysop can help out. Thanks, Slrubenstein | Talk 21:00, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
I believe you are mistaken about the events surrounding the block of Songgarden and the reasons for same. No big deal, but Flonight was not a checkuser when Durova claimed that she was??? Sorry to bust the bubble. Once...was blocked by JzG for ? 200.107.53.253 ( talk) 18:46, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
Dear Thatcher131, with all repect that is now good and due to you, I would like you to read the record offered to you as to when Flonight gained her access to the checkuser status. It is available right above in the Songgarden evidence page. Good faith and common sense tell us that Durova was the one not being truthful. If Songgarden is forced to take his block to the Arbcom., there will be plenty of verifiable attempts at getting the issue resolved prior to same. This is my final communication with you. Save it to archive, please. Thank you. In re: Songgarden November 27, 2007 From U.S, IP. Public...Tandem/link off...ab. Cc. SM. 75.53.133.150 ( talk) 01:21, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
Hi, Thatcher131. I noticed that User:Tajik is posting several messages to your talk page as well as mine under anonymous ips. Now, he is causing disruption more than ever, since he's trying provoke other users. As he did here: [18], [19], [20], [21]. Tajik was banned by ArbCom, after anonymous ip and User:German-Orientalist issues. Unfortunately, User:Beh-nam is colloborating with him and spamming messages to other users, too. As he did here: [22], [23], [24]. In addition, Beh-nam posted Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/E104421 but in his comments used the same style of Tajik, misrepresented my parole, and accused me of sock/meat-puppetry. How can i get rid of Tajik's disruption? User:Picaroon advised me to apply WP:AIV, and quote this diffs. What do you recommend me to do? Regards. E104421 ( talk) 18:27, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
Thank you from un blocking me. But anyway I do not consider valid my 2 days block, because I actually did NOTHING, and I do not understand the reasons for it. I am not guilty if Steel trusted to some users acting in bad faith adopting a biased behaviour ! Giovanni Giove 16:01, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
Just FYI, WP:ANI#Giovanni Giove (redux). – Steel 16:05, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
... here. I was getting ready to do that. John Reaves 20:36, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
Hi, Could you please have a look at this: [ [36]] Thank you in advance. -- Aynabend 06:31, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
beh-nam is evading indef ban by using several annon IPs to vandalise pages... Special:Contributions/64.229.16.84 and Special:Contributions/67.68.54.87 and Special:Contributions/65.95.145.19.-- LarrySpin 00:42, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Matthew Hoffman/Evidence. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Matthew Hoffman/Workshop.
On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, — Rlevse • Talk • 17:55, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
My page and the clerk page show you as no longer a clerk (NYB indicated you retired in August), yet I see you doing clerk functions. What is your status? If you previously retired, when did you return? Or were you really just inactive for a while? Cheers, NoSeptember 12:39, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
I was preparing a comment on my talk page, to show why my ban is uncorrect and excessive. I had not the right to reply to my last block, and to defend my self. As a consequence a block of one week, was changed into a permanent block and ban. My request is based on the following therms (see the link. [37]) I was judged as a consequence of several violations that I *never* did and about a supposed "general incivility" based on few minor accidents: I never inserted insults in my edits, despite the kbyte of insults I've received. So, I simply refuse the label of "uncivil", and I can provide several arguments for this claim. I do not ask my unblocking for now, but just the right to edit in my talk page to show my good faith. Nevertheless and administrator has blocked my page. See [38]. Not only I am a good contributor, but I was sentenced on the base of false evidences, and I can provide sources for my claim (and I was working for this). Most of all, the claim I reverted the edits "I did not like", is false: I've reverted just the edits offensive claims, as (I thought) it was my right, I did it in good faith (as usual) and perhaps because nobody defended me. Regards. user:Giovanni Giove, 16:07, 4 December 2007
I support the above claim. It seems there it is a well orchestrated "attack" against Giove by a group of Serbocroatians (centered around user:Kubura).
I have been accused of being a sockpuppet of Giovanni Giove by User:AlasdairGreen27, a "boy living in Ljubiana" ( Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Giovanni Giove (4th)), even if there were undeniable proofs that my IP is totally unrelated with that of Giove (I live in Florida, while he lives in Italy). Please read:Conclusions This Wikipedia:Suspected_sock_puppets/Giovanni_Giove_(3rd) shows Cherso is unrelated to Giove. — Rlevse • Talk • 11:03, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
Since last year Kubura has continuously provoked Giove, irritating him even in the Italian wikipedia. The minimum of offense this croat writes is to call ignorant whoever disagrees with his croatian POV (totally based on unreliable references from the Tito era). There it is an enormous and incredible amount of edits by this Kubura requiring everything against Giove from many users and admins: just read, please, his talkpage & contributions in the last years. Kubura has even been accused of using many "sockpuppets" by another user named Paxequilibrium, but in the "conclusion" of the case he has not been totally cleared by sure proofs. And the "boy living in Ljubiana", who has just accused me, repeats the exact phrases of this Kubura and writes edits to many users in the same way....
Now that these croatian users have "destroyed" Giove with a ban, who is going to face (with continuous edits from the Italian side) their croatian nationalistic POVs in the dalmatian topics? That is why they have provoked him - day after day, month after month - to do histerical edits (that generated a ban by admins who seems "too much friendly" toward the croatian side). I am now afraid that the croatian group (Kubura, Zenanarh, Direktor, etc..) has obtained fully the wanted objective: Free hands to do whatever they want on the Dalmatia-related articles of the English Wikipedia.
This is why I hope that you can help him with his ban. May be he can reach an agreement with you.
Sincerely. An old exiled from Dalmatia, who fully support Giovanni Giove in order to get a "balanced" Wikipedia.-- Cherso ( talk) 04:17, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
Hi, Thatcher131.
Sorry for using your talkpage for the discussion, but because of heavy language used here, I'll answer here, in order to have complete discussion on one place.
To be short:
1) "Serbocroatian" is a term, that's an insult to a Croat person.
2) Second, I'm a Croat, not a "Serbocroatian".
3) If you have doubts that me and other Giove's opponents are POV-izers, nationalists, narrow-minded, than have in mind that an official body, Croatian Ministry of Foreign Affairs has reacted today. It send a very sharp protest note to Italy, because a stamp issued by Italian post, was created in irredentistic way. The stamp has a photo of Croatian city
Rijeka, with the text: "Rijeka - eastern country that used to be Italian" ("Fiume-terra orientale gia` italiana")
[39].
Croatian Ministry reacted because of similar rhetoric from Italy (not to mention that president Mesić reacted half a year ago because of Napolitano's revisionism and anti-Slavic irredentistic rhetoric), just as I (and some other users) reacted on Giove and Co.'s edits (Co. being puppet or not).
Just put it this way: how would French react if Italians did that with Nice, or if Germans did that with Mulhouse? How 'd Poles react if Germans did that with Wroclaw? How would England react if Argentine did that with Falklands?
Thank you for the attention, sincerely yours,
Kubura (
talk)
14:01, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Physchim62/Evidence. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Physchim62/Workshop.
On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Cbrown1023 talk 20:49, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
New user HariRud seems to be very similar to banned user Beh-nam. Same attitudes, editing the same articles. Note recent unneeded edit to Kabul Province link, which is similar to previous edits by Beh-nam. Note also the sophistication of the first edit by HariRud at Talk:Afghan afghani link. -- Bejnar ( talk) 23:40, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
Please review Allegations of Chinese apartheid; I suspect this page should have been redeleted when the allegations of apartheid case closed. It is currently showing {{ ArbcomDeletedpage}}. GRBerry 04:43, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
We've harrowed the Waldorf and related topics articles pretty thoroughly. I wonder if there is a process for reviewing the probation...or if you could just have a look and give your impression of what remains to be done to bring the articles into line with Wikipedia's best standards. Hgilbert ( talk) 13:54, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
Please review Allegations of Chinese apartheid; I suspect this page should have been redeleted when the allegations of apartheid case closed. It is currently showing {{ ArbcomDeletedpage}}. GRBerry 04:43, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
Dear Thatcher,
I'm sorry to have to bother you with this, but I seem to be back in a similar position as I was before with an editor (and perhaps with Mattisse as well) concerning this editor's efforts to prevent me from doing what I firmly believe are edits that there are no rules against, acting as if there are. There are three articles, so far, that this involves, articles whose status I believed to be settled long ago, and before I am accused of "aggressively editing" them I was hoping you could comment on whether the edits I made were disallowed.
First, on the Starwood Festival article, I addressed a "citation needed" tag on the paragraph simply stating that the Starwood Festival offers over 150 classes on a number of topic ranging from etc etc etc with a link to the section of the ACE website that contains the last ten years of online programs listing nearly all of them. I explained on the talk page that I was doing this, and since that was the only "citation needed" tag on the page, I eliminated the one at the top of the page. This was reverted, along with a scold from Kathryn NicDhàna, the editor in question, even though I have been told in the past that for such a simple statement of fact the website of an event is a perfectly acceptable citation; I mean, where else would you find a record of the number and content of the classes offered by an event if not in it's catalog? The truth is, Kathryn NicDhàna is quite aware of these facts, and she is involved in the Neo-Pagan community, and I'm sure doesn't deny that they are true. These facts are also corroborated by several articles in the reference section, which she knows (e.g. [40], [41], and [42]). I was merely trying to supply a perfectly acceptable citation to replace a "citation needed" tag for the good of the article.
She is treating WinterStar Symposium the same way, including on both the phrase "Publications in "References" does not indicate if they are non-trivial mentions that source content." As I say on the talk page, I am not aware of ANY article that includes characterizations of just how significant or trivial a particular reference might be, or on what scale one would measure that, or where you would put such a characterization. She also says that the articles have no "footnotes", though they clearly have "Notes", and plenty of references, and no article is REQUIRED to have footnotes, nor must references only be citations.
Also, on the Jeff Rosenbaum article, I tried to expand the section mentioning professional career. When she reverted my work and began to pepper the article with "citation needed" tags (which, as you remember, was how my problems with Mattisse and her sock puppets began), I tried to address these requests one by one. She mis-labeled a section as a bibliography and deleted several articles, which I reorganized under more proper headings, and I provided a citation to a book supporting part of the career information I had posted, without re-adding material I have not found a citation for. But now she is simply reverting ANYTHING I do on the page, including citations to satisfy requests for the same, and scolding me for editing the article AT ALL, which is NOT something I have been forbidden to do by any existing rules. Nor is she discussing her actions on the talk pages. Meanwhile, Mattisse (who is back for some reason) has commented on the issue.
I know I'm long-winded, but the bottom line is that this sounds like Kathryn NicDhàna has revived the campaign to interfere with my editing, and get me back into the same trouble as had to be dealt with through arbitrations and mediations, and/or sucker me into an edit war so I can be accused of "aggressive editing". Mattisse has also begun peppering articles I either edit or created with tags (like Morning Glory Zell-Ravenheart and M. Macha Nightmare. I thought this was put to bed, but here it is again. I don't consider my edits to be controversial or inappropriate; this is IMO all about her considering ME to be controversial and inappropriate. I am trying to be careful to support my edits and keep these articles, which I care about, clean of tags. Could you please comment on my talk page?
BTW, thank you very much for your responses on Church and School of Wicca. They seem to have settled the issue for now. Rosencomet ( talk) 23:15, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
To my mind, a newly created sockpuppet of User:Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo has appeared on the scene and repeatedly removed, as usual, well-sourced material from Elvis Presley. See [43], [44], [45]. The same user, GiantSpitoon has accused me, without justification, of original research. See this discussion. The same thing happened several times in the past with other sockpuppets of this user. For evidence of sockpuppetry, compare, for instance, this edit with this very similar one. See also [46] and [47] and this edit by Mingy Jongo, one of the many other sockpuppets of Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo, which includes the same accusations of original research. Furthermore, it is certainly no coincidence that GiantSpitoon, as a new user, is very familiar with Wikipedia pages such as WP:NOR or WP:AGF and even with the abbreviations primarily used by Wikipedia administrators. Apart from his interest in Elvis Presley, the very first edits by GiantSpitoon were contributions to Michael Jackson. See [48], [49]. Significantly, Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo (who, together with his other sockpuppets, also showed much interest in Elvis related topics) was voting against the good article reassessment of Michael Jackson because he found "this article to be quite biased and in general badly written." See [50], [51]. It is also very interesting that User:Hoserjoe alias User:BomberJoe, who had removed similar passages from the Elvis article some weeks ago, has now reappeared in order to support GiantSpitoon's "useful comments" on Talk:Elvis Presley. See [52] and [53]. Another Elvis fan, User:Steve Pastor, also supports GiantSpitoon and says on the latter's talk page that they "tried to clean the thing up." See [54]. Very interesting indeed. See also these commentaries by another user on my talk page concerning the same case. What do you think? Onefortyone ( talk) 02:26, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
Please look into a violation of 3R by Penser who has reverted Alexander Graham Bell three times in a 24-hour period to his version. The issue of nationality was a "hot" topic on the talk page and a resolution in describing the scientist's nationality was decided upon. The lead paragraph is carefully written to indicate a main birthright as "Scottish" although an American citizenship was obtained. The amount of time spent in Canada is also discussed wherein all three nations have claimed Bell as their native son. FWIW, the user in question has also made some intemperate "attack" statements although I had earlier attempted to explain the issues on his talk page. Bzuk ( talk) 13:11, 16 December 2007 (UTC).
Dear Thatcher, Sorry to bother you again, but things are getting worse. Kathryn NicDhàna, Pigman, and Mattisse have been targetting the articles I've mentioned before, and others I created, chopping sections out, peppering them with citation demands, and nominating them for deletion. This is all happening over a matter of a few days, and I fear it will get worse. Rosencomet ( talk) 03:27, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
I'd never had to do one of those before (still pretty new with the Mop and Bucket), and was sort of winging it. Where did you find the template you used? -- Orange Mike | Talk 21:01, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
We've harrowed the Waldorf and related topics articles pretty thoroughly. I wonder if there is a process for reviewing the probation...or if you could just have a look and give your impression of what remains to be done to bring the articles into line with Wikipedia's best standards. Hgilbert ( talk) 13:54, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
Hiya,
As discussed on the DRV page, I've had a go at drafting a version of a bio article from basics, that hoepfully meets NPOV, and BLP, avoids tabloidism, does not take a "stance" on issues, and uses sources appropriately. Would you be willing to review for me? (I've asked a couple of others - Stifle and Geogre - already, but in view of the contentiousness I'd value your view too.)
Note that there are 2 issues, is she notable, and, can we write a neutral bio. I'm only considering the second of those for now (the first is more "opinion"), and this one can be ruthlessly trimmed more, if there are still issues. It's the most I felt able to write that was within NPOV/BLP.
It's at User:FT2/Schwartz. Thanks!
FT2 ( Talk | email) 02:04, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
This was amusing. :) Acalamari 20:15, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
Thatcher131, I appreciate your attempt to take a neutral stance in resolving the disputes. Just one comment on this [73] statement of yours:
First, let me highlight for the sake of neutrality and fairness and I do not deny that Armenian population of Azerbaijan was forcefully displaced mostly from Baku during the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict, but those sources you "can easily find seem" to stop short of other simple evidence:
In 1989, Nagorno-Karabakh had a population of 192,000. The population at that time was 76% Armenian and 23% Azerbaijanis, with Russian and Kurdish minorities (Miller, Donald E. and Lorna Touryan Miller. Armenia: Portraits of Survival and Hope. Berkley: University of California Press, 2003 p. 7 ISBN 0-5202-3492-8).
Today the population of Nagorno-Karabakh is 100% Armenian and 0% Azeri, and 7 surrounding occupied districts ( per UN SC resolutions) are also 0% Azeri with some attempts to resettle the regions with Armenians. If this isn't sufficient evidence of ethnic cleansing, then perhaps Khojaly Massacre article would help. All I wanted to emphasize in my talk page comment is that "NKR" is illegitimate entity, because it was established by cleansing that 23% and some other 600,000 people from surrounding regions and is not recognized by anyone.
Similar ethnic cleansing in Kosovo, as we know, resulted in NATO bombing of Belgrade, while Azeris weren't as fortunate in protection. Perhaps, because we are "raving maniacs" (citation of Golbez) for even mentioning such facts in Wikipedia talk page? Thanks and sorry if I was too annoying. Atabek ( talk) 12:30, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
Thatcher, there are no "significant world sources" which recognize "NKR" as republic outside of Azerbaijan's borders. If you claim such exist, perhaps, you could point to such sources and justify their significance. Also, some contributors on the page simply ignored comparisons to other similar pages of Abkhazia and Ossetia. Atabek ( talk) 20:35, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
Hi Thatcher, as you might've noticed on the Admin. noticeboard, banned user Adil Baguirov is suspected by me and many others of using a sock, user:Ehud Lesar. I have collected some evidence... here it is [77]. I started adding the evidence, I will be adding more depending on how much you request if this is not enough. I am really amazed that no one sees anything in Adil's game. The reason I don't want to add all the evidences at once is that, from experience, I know it won’t even be read. Please check em out if you have time within your busy real-life schedule. Thanks - Fedayee ( talk) 03:16, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
Dear Thatcher,
I began asking you for help with the issue of Pigman, Kathryn and Mattisse on the 15th. Back on the 19th, you said you were going to address my concerns that night. It is now the 22nd, and I only now found out you were engaged in a long conversation here [ [78]] with Pigman and Kathryn since the 16th. I feel a little like I was not invited to my hanging. Not that I consider you the hangman; on the contrary, you did not seem to agree with them.
However, I still have not gotten any guidance, and Pigman is proceeding to rally editors against me in this one-sided situation. I have found this User:Pigman/Starwood-Rosencomet Watchlist, this Wikipedia:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard, and there are others.
In the past week, 18 articles I either created or regularly edit have been edited by these three. I know they have the right, but when does it become stalking to tag 20% of the articles an editor's created, and have a watchlist of all his work? When is it called creating a hostile environment? Some have had sections chopped out. A few have had scolding messages placed on their talk pages and/or edit summaries. One editor is being confronted for daring to support me. Three articles I've written have been nominated for deletion; one deleted MINUTES after I created it. (One nomination included posts from a User:Whpq, but the posts were signed by Mattisse [ [79]]. Is this a sock?) These edited articles include ones with no connection to Starwood or ACE. Third-party citations found to replace ones that link to the ACE website are now being challenged by Pigman. This feels like a multi-front attack, and I don't think Pigman will be satisfied until he gets me blocked completely.
I have not edited agressively or been in contention with editors for months. This seems to me to be a campaign to, as I've said, provoke me into anything that he can blow up into "agressive editing", and claim I've broken rules that either I have not broken or do not exist. In fact, on the Conflict of Interest noticeboard, he says, "Despite an Arbcom caution (here), he has extensively edited these articles (please see the histories of the articles.) I interpret these extensive revisions as "aggressive" editing as well as an autobio violation on the Jeff Rosenbaum article." He redefines editing or what he calls "extensive revisions" (which they are NOT) as "aggressive"; no revert war or conflict with an editor necessary! If you review them, except for such edits as typos, grammar, linking names to their own Wiki articles, fixing links, and fixing or making new headings, all I've done for months on those and what he calls "Starwood-related" articles is add references and citations (usually because a tag was placed saying one was needed, or to support notability and avoid nomination for deletion or merging).
I seem to be all alone here, with Pigman opening discussions about me here and there, rallying folks, and the threat of a long contentious bout of interaction with Mattisse to anyone who sympathizes with me. What am I to do? Should I request an advocate? Is there such a thing anymore? Am I talking to the wrong person, and if so, who do I talk to? Rosencomet ( talk) 21:59, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
1. I have not been "editing aggressively" nor have I "violated the terms of the arbitration". I immediately sought advice from you about the issue, though none was forthcoming until now, nine days later. And to reinterpret any editing as aggressive editing is unfair, as is talking about 16 months of activity when refering to adhering to an arbitration that took place seven months ago. I should not be blocked for something I'm not doing.
2. Since the arbitration, most of the articles by far that I've created have been non-Starwood related, and my edits have been for the most part non-controversial. Even during the arbitration there was a recognition that my editing has improved.
3. I am not a "beneficiary" of the products ACE sells, nor am I "in a position to profit from the sale of these lecture tapes". I make absolutely nothing from them, nor from the totally voluntary work I do with ACE. I've explained this many times.
4. Yes, I know that editors do not own the articles they write or heavily edit. I was just trying to emphasize that, in the midst of all the accusations of aggressive this and hostile that and being "attacked", I (unlike other editors I have observed on Wikipedia) have not engaged in that sort of behavior, and should not be treated as if I have.
5. I do not "hire" speakers or entertainers for ACE events. ACE hires them, based on committee-of-the-whole vote. They hire people I never heard from, and turn down people I'd like to see there. To say that the article of any artist who appears at Starwood is a "Starwood-related article" is like saying no one who volunteer works for the Muscular Dystrophy Telethon may write or edit an article about anyone who has appeared on it over the decades; a sizable list indeed. (Yes, I know, Starwood is smaller; but the principle is the same. I'm using famliar examples.) Or if Domino's Pizza uses UPS, no one who works (much less a volunteer) at Domino's may edit an article about UPS. Or if you ever worked on an MGM movie, you can't edit an article about any actor, writer, choreographer, producer, director, dancer, musician, composer, etc etc who worked on an MGM picture. Rosencomet ( talk) 17:18, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
Is it you or an impersonator? Merry Christmas, Snowolf How can I help? 01:48, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
"We have a policy. Advocacy of pedophilia is not tolerated, nor is trolling for partners.
Fred"
This user didn't do any of that, nor is there any evidence that they were even aware that they did anything wrong. This ban comes almost a full year after this user was regularly active, and the statement on their userpage was made before the arbcom case. It is absolutely inappropriate to treat this user this way. It was made very clear in the arbcom case that blocking people simply because they were known pedophiles was not acceptable, and that is exactly what has happened. -- Ned Scott 05:19, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
Dear Thatcher,
I began asking you for help with the issue of Pigman, Kathryn and Mattisse on the 15th. Back on the 19th, you said you were going to address my concerns that night. It is now the 22nd, and I only now found out you were engaged in a long conversation here [ [81]] with Pigman and Kathryn since the 16th. I feel a little like I was not invited to my hanging. Not that I consider you the hangman; on the contrary, you did not seem to agree with them.
However, I still have not gotten any guidance, and Pigman is proceeding to rally editors against me in this one-sided situation. I have found this User:Pigman/Starwood-Rosencomet Watchlist, this Wikipedia:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard, and there are others.
In the past week, 18 articles I either created or regularly edit have been edited by these three. I know they have the right, but when does it become stalking to tag 20% of the articles an editor's created, and have a watchlist of all his work? When is it called creating a hostile environment? Some have had sections chopped out. A few have had scolding messages placed on their talk pages and/or edit summaries. One editor is being confronted for daring to support me. Three articles I've written have been nominated for deletion; one deleted MINUTES after I created it. (One nomination included posts from a User:Whpq, but the posts were signed by Mattisse [ [82]]. Is this a sock?) These edited articles include ones with no connection to Starwood or ACE. Third-party citations found to replace ones that link to the ACE website are now being challenged by Pigman. This feels like a multi-front attack, and I don't think Pigman will be satisfied until he gets me blocked completely.
I have not edited agressively or been in contention with editors for months. This seems to me to be a campaign to, as I've said, provoke me into anything that he can blow up into "agressive editing", and claim I've broken rules that either I have not broken or do not exist. In fact, on the Conflict of Interest noticeboard, he says, "Despite an Arbcom caution (here), he has extensively edited these articles (please see the histories of the articles.) I interpret these extensive revisions as "aggressive" editing as well as an autobio violation on the Jeff Rosenbaum article." He redefines editing or what he calls "extensive revisions" (which they are NOT) as "aggressive"; no revert war or conflict with an editor necessary! If you review them, except for such edits as typos, grammar, linking names to their own Wiki articles, fixing links, and fixing or making new headings, all I've done for months on those and what he calls "Starwood-related" articles is add references and citations (usually because a tag was placed saying one was needed, or to support notability and avoid nomination for deletion or merging).
I seem to be all alone here, with Pigman opening discussions about me here and there, rallying folks, and the threat of a long contentious bout of interaction with Mattisse to anyone who sympathizes with me. What am I to do? Should I request an advocate? Is there such a thing anymore? Am I talking to the wrong person, and if so, who do I talk to? Rosencomet ( talk) 21:59, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
1. I have not been "editing aggressively" nor have I "violated the terms of the arbitration". I immediately sought advice from you about the issue, though none was forthcoming until now, nine days later. And to reinterpret any editing as aggressive editing is unfair, as is talking about 16 months of activity when refering to adhering to an arbitration that took place seven months ago. I should not be blocked for something I'm not doing.
2. Since the arbitration, most of the articles by far that I've created have been non-Starwood related, and my edits have been for the most part non-controversial. Even during the arbitration there was a recognition that my editing has improved.
3. I am not a "beneficiary" of the products ACE sells, nor am I "in a position to profit from the sale of these lecture tapes". I make absolutely nothing from them, nor from the totally voluntary work I do with ACE. I've explained this many times.
4. Yes, I know that editors do not own the articles they write or heavily edit. I was just trying to emphasize that, in the midst of all the accusations of aggressive this and hostile that and being "attacked", I (unlike other editors I have observed on Wikipedia) have not engaged in that sort of behavior, and should not be treated as if I have.
5. I do not "hire" speakers or entertainers for ACE events. ACE hires them, based on committee-of-the-whole vote. They hire people I never heard from, and turn down people I'd like to see there. To say that the article of any artist who appears at Starwood is a "Starwood-related article" is like saying no one who volunteer works for the Muscular Dystrophy Telethon may write or edit an article about anyone who has appeared on it over the decades; a sizable list indeed. (Yes, I know, Starwood is smaller; but the principle is the same. I'm using famliar examples.) Or if Domino's Pizza uses UPS, no one who works (much less a volunteer) at Domino's may edit an article about UPS. Or if you ever worked on an MGM movie, you can't edit an article about any actor, writer, choreographer, producer, director, dancer, musician, composer, etc etc who worked on an MGM picture. Rosencomet ( talk) 17:18, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
Is it you or an impersonator? Merry Christmas, Snowolf How can I help? 01:48, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
"We have a policy. Advocacy of pedophilia is not tolerated, nor is trolling for partners.
Fred"
This user didn't do any of that, nor is there any evidence that they were even aware that they did anything wrong. This ban comes almost a full year after this user was regularly active, and the statement on their userpage was made before the arbcom case. It is absolutely inappropriate to treat this user this way. It was made very clear in the arbcom case that blocking people simply because they were known pedophiles was not acceptable, and that is exactly what has happened. -- Ned Scott 05:19, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
I really think something isn't working. Perhaps a 3rd rfar is necesary? How long will this nonsense continue? People are just gaming the system to its fullest. -- Cat chi? 17:26, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
Very nice way to deal with the scheduling issue; thanks for coming up with that! Kirill 00:27, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
You need to do something, or else the credibility of the admins will go out of the window. John's block of Fedayee is too inappropriate. Even assuming John is innocent, it does look suspicious, and that's bad enough. He didn't as much as chastise Ehud for the insults that he made, he went as far as to justify them. Noone is blocked for not assuming good faith. Especially when Fedayee has some basis for believing Ehud to be a sockpuppet. And noone is blocked without an official warning on the page of the user--simple requests on the ArbCom page don't count. Fedayee's block needs to be lifted, unless you want members to think of administrators as a joke and tools for some users.-- TigranTheGreat ( talk) 09:43, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
Hi again, Thatcher. Just to make some things clear. WP:AGF is not a policy. It is a guideline which "is not set in stone and should be treated with common sense and the occasional exception." ( WP:AGF). Saying that someone is a sockpuppet is not a violation of AGF--someone may engage in sockpuppetry with good faith (i.e. believing that he is making Wikipedia better).
Furthermore, a penalty should be applied after an official warning is placed on a user's talk page, and the user is told that continued violation will result in blocking. It's spelled out in the ArbCom decision: "Before any penalty is applied, a warning placed on the editor's user talk page by an administrator shall serve as notice to the user that these remedies apply to them." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan_2. Thank you.-- TigranTheGreat ( talk) 10:15, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
Feedback is requested on what to do with Giano's deleted talk page, since there's evidence included in the history of the page. Users are debating on m:vanish issues, while Jehochman has suggested an alternative regarding the clerk of the case, I guess that means you. :-) Thanks. - Mtmelendez ( Talk) 02:44, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
Hi Thatcher, I find you comments at WP:ANI where quite rude. :( Also, could you please explain to me why you believe the conversation should be archived so quickly? -- CyclePat ( talk) 07:59, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Talk archives |
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1 • 2 • 3 • 4 • 5 • 6 • 7 • 8 • 9 • 10 |
Yes, the latest issue was on Wolfowitz' BLP. I'm sorry I didn't provide context; I rushed those two noticeboard posts, and I'm always wary of maybe revealing too much given the sensitivity of this conflict. I've had a longstanding issue with DS inserting links to his own Wikinews articles - he's done it perhaps a dozen times - but after our conflict on that arbcom case (THF-DavidShankBone) I let it drop. When he started editing THF's BLP again, that's when I started watching again. ATren 17:06, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
I'm detaching from this conflict. I'm sick of being attacked ( "And now we have the other ArbCom warrior who is also adept at trolling my edits") every time I object to David's edits. I've been civil through all my dealings with him, even when he was raising an unrelated year-old dispute in every discussion. It's clear he will never let this thing go, and it's also clear that nobody is willing to do anything about it. If you have any questions about my involvement with David, feel free to ask. I stand by everything I've every done in that conflict. ATren 17:47, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
I realize you may be busy; I'm new at this complainin' stuff and read of your involvement with 141 in a dispute. I want to flag up his continued disruption to improvements sought by reasonable editors of the Presley article. Can someone like you take a look? 141 is on the verge of driving good people away for good - including me. If we have to take a particular course of action, I worry it will be time consuming. Thank you anyway. Rikstar 13:11, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
Please note Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Raul654. You may or may not want to certify the basis for that dispute. I used your request upon Raul654 as part of the evidence. ~ UBeR ( talk) 06:08, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
I am confused: why you block Giovanni Giove but don't block flamer DIREKTOR who violating his restriction in editing???? Why DIREKTOR edits in Istrian exodus???? Regards, LEO 17 nov 2007
Sorry to bother you, but on
User:Giovanni Giove's talkpage you stated: "You can report violations by DIREKTOR at
WP:AE. Thatcher131
02:09, 17 November 2007 (UTC)".
I'd just like to no if you were talking in general or refering to specific violations, in other words, did I violate the restriction somehow?
DIREKTOR (
TALK)
11:27, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
As for the Istrian exodus matter, I reverted once on 22nd October and once more on the 17th of November (History page: [6]). While an "unidentified" IP user made huge (badly spelled) reverts far more frequently than once per week, his frequent grammar mistakes are looking oddly familiar. DIREKTOR ( TALK) 11:32, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
Right, thnx. DIREKTOR ( TALK) 13:08, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
Yes, thank you.
You might also be interested to view User talk:Ragusan#Confirmed sockpuppet. User:Ragusino and User:Raguseo are probably him. -- PaxEquilibrium ( talk) 12:19, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
I was always interested in bots, but never really got to find out about them. Could you lend me some aid perhaps? Cheers. -- PaxEquilibrium ( talk) 15:51, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
A page to which you have significant contributions, RfC/U, is up for deletion here. -- Jreferee t/ c 06:40, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
i just saw your comment on Dalmatia 2 and wanted to say thanks for your involvement. These two need to be separated, wouldn't you agree? -- Gp75motorsports ( talk) 19:16, 19 November 2007 (UTC)
Thank You for starting of RFCU.
Now that You've cleared mine status, it'd be nice if You request CU's (checkuser's) services regarding user Giovanni Giove and its possible sockpuppets/meatpuppets.
Personally, I thought that user DIREKTOR was Giove's strawpuppet (I've told that to user DIREKTOR on his talkpage, see
User_talk:DIREKTOR/Archive_2).
Now, let's return to Giovanni Giove. I was postponing my request for CU regarding Giove's case, because I was busy on other articles (different topics), in which I came to situations that I required CU's services. Too much requesting for those might seem annoying (especially if my suspicions prove wrong; that way I'll risk CU's ignorance towards my requests, and I don't want that), unless you give good "coverage" for your suspicions.
One cannot go to checkuser and say "I think it's him, check it".
But, I believe that admin can do that. I think that we may have a puppet theater... Compare the edits from
user:Giovanni Giove,
user:Cherso,
user:RomanoDD,
user:London321 (similar interest, "intervention" with same edits when 3RR was about to occur, registration solely for the purpose of support...).
Possibly the latter three are accounts of some previously banned users (
user:GiorgioOrsini,
user:NovaNova).
Also, there's a possibility that it might be the person with whome Giove and/or Orsini are in contact. Though, in that case, we cannot do anything, because we're dealing with the 3rd person.
Also, it's possible that Giove, Orsini or their lookalikes act from an other computer, from other location (public library, faculty, internet club...). The IP check might not be helpful anymore, but the edit pattern and vocabulary etc. is easy to recognise.
Regarding user:Argyriou (that appeared out of nowhere on almost closed RFARB and on WP:AN/Incidents, after being months away... to defend Giove???).
Read his conversations and attitude toward the opponents (e.g. "You are not welcome to post on my talk page any more"
[7] from 23 Feb 2007). That's our "discussion boy". His too easy use of words like "fanatical nationalist" might be understood as personal attack.
If You want to see more of his discussion approach, see the
Talk:Republic of Dubrovnik/Archive 1. Just type "Αργυριου" or "Argiriou". There You'll see my discussion with him.
Also, please, read Argyriou's message on
Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_arbitration/Dalmatia: "User:Kubura was utterly unwilling to actually discuss anything - he merely restated that he was right, and that anyone else was wrong, and reverted any edit which did not agree with his extreme-nationalist POV."
[8].
"Extreme nationalism"
[9] is very heavy word. That's etiquetting. Does he know the meaning of that expression at all?
"Kubura...unwilling to discuss anything"
[10]? That's blatant lie. Just type Ctrl+F and "Kubura" and read my messages on the
Talk:Republic of Dubrovnik/Archive 1. Those with external links to academic institutions.
"... User:Giovanni Giove...was amenable to reasonable discussion"??? Argyriou wrote that on 13 Oct 2007, after I wrote all my evidence on the RFARB. Has he ever read what I wrote there? Has Argyriou ever read any content of the talkpages of disputed articles?
Personally, I was mostly present on
Talk:Jakov Mikalja and
Talk:Republic of Dubrovnik, and I'm mostly familiar with the all discussions on those pages (I've visited some other article and article talkpages, but I'm not that familiar with all discussions there).
When one is pointing a finger to someone in order to blame him/her, also have in mind who pointed the finger.
Sorry for being too long, but I needed to provide You more info regarding those accusers.
I hope this'd be helpful. If You need any comments or explanations, please, contact me.
Kubura (
talk)
11:10, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
Regarding user:Argyriou, here's more [11]. Recent block, 18 Oct 2007. Kubura ( talk) 13:34, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
I can start it, but it'd be fair if you start it (since you've already started an RFCU regarding me
[12],
[13]).
To be correct, your starting of an RFCU hurted me. What did I do in the Dalmatia case, that it woke your suspicion towards me... and, on the other hand, you haven't done a bit to investigate Giove's behaviour (just read the RFARB/Dalmatia/Evidence and the talkpages of that case), nor filed an RFCU against his possible sockpuppets/meatpuppets? What does make Giove more "cooperating" than me?
Also, the RFCU that you've started isn't correctly fullfilled. You gave a request to investigate relations between me, "user:Anto", user:DIREKTOR and user:Raguseo.
"User:Anto" doesn't exist at all, it's only in his signature. You should have point with the mouse over his signature, and you'd see then his username.
Please, be thorough, Thatcher. If you did so in the "studying" of this case, then it worries me.
You mention the expanding of the sanctions (???), "if the editors he was warring against have been acting in concert". Not to mention the "elevating" the case to higher wiki-instances.
Look better. Giove's opponents weren't acting in concert, the opponents were mostly trying to discuss with him, see the talkpage (few of them did violated 3RR: DIREKTOR and No.13).
In fact, if you've noticed, on the RFARB/Dalmatia/Evidence, I wasn't reporting Giove's 3RR violations: I've pointed towards completely different problems in Giove's behaviour, that I find more serious. Ordinary violation of 3RR rule doesn't need an RFARB to be sanctioned.
Did you know that I've tried to communicate with Giove directly (besides all article talkpages)? You cannot see that in his talkpage, because Giove hasn't archived his talkpage, but simply deleted it. So here's my message that I've posted to him on 26 June 2007
[14]. Then follow the discussion (other Croatian users 've tried to talk with him also, you'll see that). Then you'll see that you're dealing with a troll (I must use that word, I allow that to myself after over 14 months of arguing with him).
Now, I'll return to my message from yesterday. I was following the discussion on the talk:Republic of Dubrovnik, but since DIREKTOR began flooding the talk with his posts, I've ...abstained a bit, and to tell the truth, I wasn't reading the tirade and arguing that followed; only few times I've posted.
Sincerely,
Kubura (
talk)
07:28, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
I moved this template, for I thought it didn't make any sense to have it in the user space :). Let's free the userfied templates, brothers! -- lucasbfr talk 09:03, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
You may be interested in commenting at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Wikinews redux. Cool Hand Luke 21:53, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
Dear Thatcher,
I was hoping you could advise me on what I think may become a problem. I recently went through a long but quite civil discussion with another editor (Fuzzypeg) about the "controversy" section of the Church and School of Wicca article, concerning the defamation of the founder of the organization and the presence of a section that contained a good deal of non-factual evidence, was based on a single mis-quoted article, and which was contradicted and/or clarified by other articles by the same author. The discussion went well, and we came to an agreement. However, a new editor who has never contributed to Wikipedia has ignored all that and returned the entire text, and has accused me of being "associated" with the founder (which I am not, except that years ago he spoke at an event I help organize, as have over a hundred speakers).
Just to give you what I think is an important piece of background, there is an individual who has been pursuing a campaign against this Church and the founders named A.J. Drew. He has been the organizer of an event called The Real Witches' Ball for many years, and this year he lost all his major speakers because he announced, and then hosted, a ritual there in which effigies of the founders were molested in front of the attendees. I suspect that this new editor may be a sympathizer with Drew's cause, or might actually be him. His behaviour has ostracized him with the majority of the Neo-Pagan community, and by his own admission may result in the end of his event and a lawsuit as well. But he continues to pursue this course.
I do NOT wish to be part of a flame war, but I feel that the edits I made were well justified and documented. I hope you will take the time to review them on the talk page of the article, and perhaps advise me as to how I can stop the article from being a vehicle for character assasination rather than a description of the subject. Thanks in advance. Rosencomet ( talk) 18:04, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
Bravo — I think that was a good call. I was trying to move it in that direction at the end, but you know... -- Haemo ( talk) 06:26, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
Hi, could you please explain what exactly you have done with archiving? There were several pages where discussion was ongoing. Than you made several moves, deletions, etc and I can't make sense of what happened. What exactly did you move, copied, pasted and where? TIA, -- Irpen ( talk) 19:01, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
Beh-nam, you should probably read Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/E104421-Tajik, especially Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/E104421-Tajik/Proposed decision. Eight Arbitrators endorsed the finding of fact that Tajik had engaged in sockpuppetry to continue editing while claiming to be "too busy" to engage in mediation (which he had agreed to do to avoid arbitration). Even if some of the alleged sockpuppets are not him (which I am not in a position to evaluate) the broad finding remains, and has been endorsed by Arbitrators who do have access to the checkuser information. As I have explained to Tajik many times (and the idea that the anonymous person posting repeatedly to my talk page, as well as emailing me, and posting other places, is not Tajik himself is just silly) he may appeal to the Arbitration committee. Thatcher131 00:01, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
Dear Thatcher, I posted this on ANI as well. User:Beh-nam keeps insulting me on my talk page, he did so today for a second time [16]. The previous attempt was in September [17]. Atabek ( talk) 14:51, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
Very weak, Thatcher. You had been told before that Tajik did try to contact the Arbitration Committee. But his mails are being ignored. The same way, he has told many times that you ignore his mails. And most recently, User:Ali_doostzadeh has requested an investigation, and his emails are being ignored as well. I took this to User:Jimbo Wales and also asked Tajik to write a short comment. But admins once again ignored. This is not a mistake or failure of Tajik. It all started with you and your injust block. And it continues to this day. And what surprises me most is that you are now even threatening User:Beh-nam. What the hell is wrong with you, Thatcher?! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.83.137.44 ( talk) 04:26, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
Since you're an Arbitration Committee clerk, I thought I'd let you know about the above templates.... I have converted these to use the new ambox format. Feel free to revert me if you want. I made these changes so the templates would look better.
Thanks, -- Solumeiras talk 16:23, 25 November 2007 (UTC)
The Barnstar of Good Humor | ||
for the following links: |
recycling and bigfoot. Kwsn (Ni!) 05:38, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
Hi. Following up here on your question on the Signpost article talkpage (since as Ral315 indicates that's probably not a sensible place for this). I was working off what appears to be the current version of the Foundation resolution, updated in June. This one has a slightly different wording of paragraph 2. In particular, note how the word "including" age verification is changed to "which may include." Then in paragraph 4, the resolution specifically applies to checkusers, oversighters, and stewards, but does not expressly mention arbitration committees (even though one of the Board members is a former arbitrator herself and served on the committee with an underage member, so the issue must have crossed her mind). The inference I drew was that the Board had decided to leave the issue of whether arbitrators must meet the age requirement as a local decision, or at a minimum, that the policy was ambiguous and could reasonably be construed in this way. Newyorkbrad ( talk) 16:09, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
Please note this - it is my intention to unban/unblock Deeceevoice from editing on Afrocentrism and other topical articles, as her most recent edits seem to me to be constructive, and she seems to be making an effort to engage others constructively (and effort, I note, that in my opinion has not been reciprocated by one or two other editors). I hope this is sufficient. I will be travelling for a few days and will not have access to Wikipedia - if any technical changes must be made I hope another sysop can help out. Thanks, Slrubenstein | Talk 21:00, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
I believe you are mistaken about the events surrounding the block of Songgarden and the reasons for same. No big deal, but Flonight was not a checkuser when Durova claimed that she was??? Sorry to bust the bubble. Once...was blocked by JzG for ? 200.107.53.253 ( talk) 18:46, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
Dear Thatcher131, with all repect that is now good and due to you, I would like you to read the record offered to you as to when Flonight gained her access to the checkuser status. It is available right above in the Songgarden evidence page. Good faith and common sense tell us that Durova was the one not being truthful. If Songgarden is forced to take his block to the Arbcom., there will be plenty of verifiable attempts at getting the issue resolved prior to same. This is my final communication with you. Save it to archive, please. Thank you. In re: Songgarden November 27, 2007 From U.S, IP. Public...Tandem/link off...ab. Cc. SM. 75.53.133.150 ( talk) 01:21, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
Hi, Thatcher131. I noticed that User:Tajik is posting several messages to your talk page as well as mine under anonymous ips. Now, he is causing disruption more than ever, since he's trying provoke other users. As he did here: [18], [19], [20], [21]. Tajik was banned by ArbCom, after anonymous ip and User:German-Orientalist issues. Unfortunately, User:Beh-nam is colloborating with him and spamming messages to other users, too. As he did here: [22], [23], [24]. In addition, Beh-nam posted Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/E104421 but in his comments used the same style of Tajik, misrepresented my parole, and accused me of sock/meat-puppetry. How can i get rid of Tajik's disruption? User:Picaroon advised me to apply WP:AIV, and quote this diffs. What do you recommend me to do? Regards. E104421 ( talk) 18:27, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
Thank you from un blocking me. But anyway I do not consider valid my 2 days block, because I actually did NOTHING, and I do not understand the reasons for it. I am not guilty if Steel trusted to some users acting in bad faith adopting a biased behaviour ! Giovanni Giove 16:01, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
Just FYI, WP:ANI#Giovanni Giove (redux). – Steel 16:05, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
... here. I was getting ready to do that. John Reaves 20:36, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
Hi, Could you please have a look at this: [ [36]] Thank you in advance. -- Aynabend 06:31, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
beh-nam is evading indef ban by using several annon IPs to vandalise pages... Special:Contributions/64.229.16.84 and Special:Contributions/67.68.54.87 and Special:Contributions/65.95.145.19.-- LarrySpin 00:42, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Matthew Hoffman/Evidence. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Matthew Hoffman/Workshop.
On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, — Rlevse • Talk • 17:55, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
My page and the clerk page show you as no longer a clerk (NYB indicated you retired in August), yet I see you doing clerk functions. What is your status? If you previously retired, when did you return? Or were you really just inactive for a while? Cheers, NoSeptember 12:39, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
I was preparing a comment on my talk page, to show why my ban is uncorrect and excessive. I had not the right to reply to my last block, and to defend my self. As a consequence a block of one week, was changed into a permanent block and ban. My request is based on the following therms (see the link. [37]) I was judged as a consequence of several violations that I *never* did and about a supposed "general incivility" based on few minor accidents: I never inserted insults in my edits, despite the kbyte of insults I've received. So, I simply refuse the label of "uncivil", and I can provide several arguments for this claim. I do not ask my unblocking for now, but just the right to edit in my talk page to show my good faith. Nevertheless and administrator has blocked my page. See [38]. Not only I am a good contributor, but I was sentenced on the base of false evidences, and I can provide sources for my claim (and I was working for this). Most of all, the claim I reverted the edits "I did not like", is false: I've reverted just the edits offensive claims, as (I thought) it was my right, I did it in good faith (as usual) and perhaps because nobody defended me. Regards. user:Giovanni Giove, 16:07, 4 December 2007
I support the above claim. It seems there it is a well orchestrated "attack" against Giove by a group of Serbocroatians (centered around user:Kubura).
I have been accused of being a sockpuppet of Giovanni Giove by User:AlasdairGreen27, a "boy living in Ljubiana" ( Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Giovanni Giove (4th)), even if there were undeniable proofs that my IP is totally unrelated with that of Giove (I live in Florida, while he lives in Italy). Please read:Conclusions This Wikipedia:Suspected_sock_puppets/Giovanni_Giove_(3rd) shows Cherso is unrelated to Giove. — Rlevse • Talk • 11:03, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
Since last year Kubura has continuously provoked Giove, irritating him even in the Italian wikipedia. The minimum of offense this croat writes is to call ignorant whoever disagrees with his croatian POV (totally based on unreliable references from the Tito era). There it is an enormous and incredible amount of edits by this Kubura requiring everything against Giove from many users and admins: just read, please, his talkpage & contributions in the last years. Kubura has even been accused of using many "sockpuppets" by another user named Paxequilibrium, but in the "conclusion" of the case he has not been totally cleared by sure proofs. And the "boy living in Ljubiana", who has just accused me, repeats the exact phrases of this Kubura and writes edits to many users in the same way....
Now that these croatian users have "destroyed" Giove with a ban, who is going to face (with continuous edits from the Italian side) their croatian nationalistic POVs in the dalmatian topics? That is why they have provoked him - day after day, month after month - to do histerical edits (that generated a ban by admins who seems "too much friendly" toward the croatian side). I am now afraid that the croatian group (Kubura, Zenanarh, Direktor, etc..) has obtained fully the wanted objective: Free hands to do whatever they want on the Dalmatia-related articles of the English Wikipedia.
This is why I hope that you can help him with his ban. May be he can reach an agreement with you.
Sincerely. An old exiled from Dalmatia, who fully support Giovanni Giove in order to get a "balanced" Wikipedia.-- Cherso ( talk) 04:17, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
Hi, Thatcher131.
Sorry for using your talkpage for the discussion, but because of heavy language used here, I'll answer here, in order to have complete discussion on one place.
To be short:
1) "Serbocroatian" is a term, that's an insult to a Croat person.
2) Second, I'm a Croat, not a "Serbocroatian".
3) If you have doubts that me and other Giove's opponents are POV-izers, nationalists, narrow-minded, than have in mind that an official body, Croatian Ministry of Foreign Affairs has reacted today. It send a very sharp protest note to Italy, because a stamp issued by Italian post, was created in irredentistic way. The stamp has a photo of Croatian city
Rijeka, with the text: "Rijeka - eastern country that used to be Italian" ("Fiume-terra orientale gia` italiana")
[39].
Croatian Ministry reacted because of similar rhetoric from Italy (not to mention that president Mesić reacted half a year ago because of Napolitano's revisionism and anti-Slavic irredentistic rhetoric), just as I (and some other users) reacted on Giove and Co.'s edits (Co. being puppet or not).
Just put it this way: how would French react if Italians did that with Nice, or if Germans did that with Mulhouse? How 'd Poles react if Germans did that with Wroclaw? How would England react if Argentine did that with Falklands?
Thank you for the attention, sincerely yours,
Kubura (
talk)
14:01, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Physchim62/Evidence. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Physchim62/Workshop.
On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, Cbrown1023 talk 20:49, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
New user HariRud seems to be very similar to banned user Beh-nam. Same attitudes, editing the same articles. Note recent unneeded edit to Kabul Province link, which is similar to previous edits by Beh-nam. Note also the sophistication of the first edit by HariRud at Talk:Afghan afghani link. -- Bejnar ( talk) 23:40, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
Please review Allegations of Chinese apartheid; I suspect this page should have been redeleted when the allegations of apartheid case closed. It is currently showing {{ ArbcomDeletedpage}}. GRBerry 04:43, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
We've harrowed the Waldorf and related topics articles pretty thoroughly. I wonder if there is a process for reviewing the probation...or if you could just have a look and give your impression of what remains to be done to bring the articles into line with Wikipedia's best standards. Hgilbert ( talk) 13:54, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
Please review Allegations of Chinese apartheid; I suspect this page should have been redeleted when the allegations of apartheid case closed. It is currently showing {{ ArbcomDeletedpage}}. GRBerry 04:43, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
Dear Thatcher,
I'm sorry to have to bother you with this, but I seem to be back in a similar position as I was before with an editor (and perhaps with Mattisse as well) concerning this editor's efforts to prevent me from doing what I firmly believe are edits that there are no rules against, acting as if there are. There are three articles, so far, that this involves, articles whose status I believed to be settled long ago, and before I am accused of "aggressively editing" them I was hoping you could comment on whether the edits I made were disallowed.
First, on the Starwood Festival article, I addressed a "citation needed" tag on the paragraph simply stating that the Starwood Festival offers over 150 classes on a number of topic ranging from etc etc etc with a link to the section of the ACE website that contains the last ten years of online programs listing nearly all of them. I explained on the talk page that I was doing this, and since that was the only "citation needed" tag on the page, I eliminated the one at the top of the page. This was reverted, along with a scold from Kathryn NicDhàna, the editor in question, even though I have been told in the past that for such a simple statement of fact the website of an event is a perfectly acceptable citation; I mean, where else would you find a record of the number and content of the classes offered by an event if not in it's catalog? The truth is, Kathryn NicDhàna is quite aware of these facts, and she is involved in the Neo-Pagan community, and I'm sure doesn't deny that they are true. These facts are also corroborated by several articles in the reference section, which she knows (e.g. [40], [41], and [42]). I was merely trying to supply a perfectly acceptable citation to replace a "citation needed" tag for the good of the article.
She is treating WinterStar Symposium the same way, including on both the phrase "Publications in "References" does not indicate if they are non-trivial mentions that source content." As I say on the talk page, I am not aware of ANY article that includes characterizations of just how significant or trivial a particular reference might be, or on what scale one would measure that, or where you would put such a characterization. She also says that the articles have no "footnotes", though they clearly have "Notes", and plenty of references, and no article is REQUIRED to have footnotes, nor must references only be citations.
Also, on the Jeff Rosenbaum article, I tried to expand the section mentioning professional career. When she reverted my work and began to pepper the article with "citation needed" tags (which, as you remember, was how my problems with Mattisse and her sock puppets began), I tried to address these requests one by one. She mis-labeled a section as a bibliography and deleted several articles, which I reorganized under more proper headings, and I provided a citation to a book supporting part of the career information I had posted, without re-adding material I have not found a citation for. But now she is simply reverting ANYTHING I do on the page, including citations to satisfy requests for the same, and scolding me for editing the article AT ALL, which is NOT something I have been forbidden to do by any existing rules. Nor is she discussing her actions on the talk pages. Meanwhile, Mattisse (who is back for some reason) has commented on the issue.
I know I'm long-winded, but the bottom line is that this sounds like Kathryn NicDhàna has revived the campaign to interfere with my editing, and get me back into the same trouble as had to be dealt with through arbitrations and mediations, and/or sucker me into an edit war so I can be accused of "aggressive editing". Mattisse has also begun peppering articles I either edit or created with tags (like Morning Glory Zell-Ravenheart and M. Macha Nightmare. I thought this was put to bed, but here it is again. I don't consider my edits to be controversial or inappropriate; this is IMO all about her considering ME to be controversial and inappropriate. I am trying to be careful to support my edits and keep these articles, which I care about, clean of tags. Could you please comment on my talk page?
BTW, thank you very much for your responses on Church and School of Wicca. They seem to have settled the issue for now. Rosencomet ( talk) 23:15, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
To my mind, a newly created sockpuppet of User:Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo has appeared on the scene and repeatedly removed, as usual, well-sourced material from Elvis Presley. See [43], [44], [45]. The same user, GiantSpitoon has accused me, without justification, of original research. See this discussion. The same thing happened several times in the past with other sockpuppets of this user. For evidence of sockpuppetry, compare, for instance, this edit with this very similar one. See also [46] and [47] and this edit by Mingy Jongo, one of the many other sockpuppets of Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo, which includes the same accusations of original research. Furthermore, it is certainly no coincidence that GiantSpitoon, as a new user, is very familiar with Wikipedia pages such as WP:NOR or WP:AGF and even with the abbreviations primarily used by Wikipedia administrators. Apart from his interest in Elvis Presley, the very first edits by GiantSpitoon were contributions to Michael Jackson. See [48], [49]. Significantly, Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo (who, together with his other sockpuppets, also showed much interest in Elvis related topics) was voting against the good article reassessment of Michael Jackson because he found "this article to be quite biased and in general badly written." See [50], [51]. It is also very interesting that User:Hoserjoe alias User:BomberJoe, who had removed similar passages from the Elvis article some weeks ago, has now reappeared in order to support GiantSpitoon's "useful comments" on Talk:Elvis Presley. See [52] and [53]. Another Elvis fan, User:Steve Pastor, also supports GiantSpitoon and says on the latter's talk page that they "tried to clean the thing up." See [54]. Very interesting indeed. See also these commentaries by another user on my talk page concerning the same case. What do you think? Onefortyone ( talk) 02:26, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
Please look into a violation of 3R by Penser who has reverted Alexander Graham Bell three times in a 24-hour period to his version. The issue of nationality was a "hot" topic on the talk page and a resolution in describing the scientist's nationality was decided upon. The lead paragraph is carefully written to indicate a main birthright as "Scottish" although an American citizenship was obtained. The amount of time spent in Canada is also discussed wherein all three nations have claimed Bell as their native son. FWIW, the user in question has also made some intemperate "attack" statements although I had earlier attempted to explain the issues on his talk page. Bzuk ( talk) 13:11, 16 December 2007 (UTC).
Dear Thatcher, Sorry to bother you again, but things are getting worse. Kathryn NicDhàna, Pigman, and Mattisse have been targetting the articles I've mentioned before, and others I created, chopping sections out, peppering them with citation demands, and nominating them for deletion. This is all happening over a matter of a few days, and I fear it will get worse. Rosencomet ( talk) 03:27, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
I'd never had to do one of those before (still pretty new with the Mop and Bucket), and was sort of winging it. Where did you find the template you used? -- Orange Mike | Talk 21:01, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
We've harrowed the Waldorf and related topics articles pretty thoroughly. I wonder if there is a process for reviewing the probation...or if you could just have a look and give your impression of what remains to be done to bring the articles into line with Wikipedia's best standards. Hgilbert ( talk) 13:54, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
Hiya,
As discussed on the DRV page, I've had a go at drafting a version of a bio article from basics, that hoepfully meets NPOV, and BLP, avoids tabloidism, does not take a "stance" on issues, and uses sources appropriately. Would you be willing to review for me? (I've asked a couple of others - Stifle and Geogre - already, but in view of the contentiousness I'd value your view too.)
Note that there are 2 issues, is she notable, and, can we write a neutral bio. I'm only considering the second of those for now (the first is more "opinion"), and this one can be ruthlessly trimmed more, if there are still issues. It's the most I felt able to write that was within NPOV/BLP.
It's at User:FT2/Schwartz. Thanks!
FT2 ( Talk | email) 02:04, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
This was amusing. :) Acalamari 20:15, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
Thatcher131, I appreciate your attempt to take a neutral stance in resolving the disputes. Just one comment on this [73] statement of yours:
First, let me highlight for the sake of neutrality and fairness and I do not deny that Armenian population of Azerbaijan was forcefully displaced mostly from Baku during the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict, but those sources you "can easily find seem" to stop short of other simple evidence:
In 1989, Nagorno-Karabakh had a population of 192,000. The population at that time was 76% Armenian and 23% Azerbaijanis, with Russian and Kurdish minorities (Miller, Donald E. and Lorna Touryan Miller. Armenia: Portraits of Survival and Hope. Berkley: University of California Press, 2003 p. 7 ISBN 0-5202-3492-8).
Today the population of Nagorno-Karabakh is 100% Armenian and 0% Azeri, and 7 surrounding occupied districts ( per UN SC resolutions) are also 0% Azeri with some attempts to resettle the regions with Armenians. If this isn't sufficient evidence of ethnic cleansing, then perhaps Khojaly Massacre article would help. All I wanted to emphasize in my talk page comment is that "NKR" is illegitimate entity, because it was established by cleansing that 23% and some other 600,000 people from surrounding regions and is not recognized by anyone.
Similar ethnic cleansing in Kosovo, as we know, resulted in NATO bombing of Belgrade, while Azeris weren't as fortunate in protection. Perhaps, because we are "raving maniacs" (citation of Golbez) for even mentioning such facts in Wikipedia talk page? Thanks and sorry if I was too annoying. Atabek ( talk) 12:30, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
Thatcher, there are no "significant world sources" which recognize "NKR" as republic outside of Azerbaijan's borders. If you claim such exist, perhaps, you could point to such sources and justify their significance. Also, some contributors on the page simply ignored comparisons to other similar pages of Abkhazia and Ossetia. Atabek ( talk) 20:35, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
Hi Thatcher, as you might've noticed on the Admin. noticeboard, banned user Adil Baguirov is suspected by me and many others of using a sock, user:Ehud Lesar. I have collected some evidence... here it is [77]. I started adding the evidence, I will be adding more depending on how much you request if this is not enough. I am really amazed that no one sees anything in Adil's game. The reason I don't want to add all the evidences at once is that, from experience, I know it won’t even be read. Please check em out if you have time within your busy real-life schedule. Thanks - Fedayee ( talk) 03:16, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
Dear Thatcher,
I began asking you for help with the issue of Pigman, Kathryn and Mattisse on the 15th. Back on the 19th, you said you were going to address my concerns that night. It is now the 22nd, and I only now found out you were engaged in a long conversation here [ [78]] with Pigman and Kathryn since the 16th. I feel a little like I was not invited to my hanging. Not that I consider you the hangman; on the contrary, you did not seem to agree with them.
However, I still have not gotten any guidance, and Pigman is proceeding to rally editors against me in this one-sided situation. I have found this User:Pigman/Starwood-Rosencomet Watchlist, this Wikipedia:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard, and there are others.
In the past week, 18 articles I either created or regularly edit have been edited by these three. I know they have the right, but when does it become stalking to tag 20% of the articles an editor's created, and have a watchlist of all his work? When is it called creating a hostile environment? Some have had sections chopped out. A few have had scolding messages placed on their talk pages and/or edit summaries. One editor is being confronted for daring to support me. Three articles I've written have been nominated for deletion; one deleted MINUTES after I created it. (One nomination included posts from a User:Whpq, but the posts were signed by Mattisse [ [79]]. Is this a sock?) These edited articles include ones with no connection to Starwood or ACE. Third-party citations found to replace ones that link to the ACE website are now being challenged by Pigman. This feels like a multi-front attack, and I don't think Pigman will be satisfied until he gets me blocked completely.
I have not edited agressively or been in contention with editors for months. This seems to me to be a campaign to, as I've said, provoke me into anything that he can blow up into "agressive editing", and claim I've broken rules that either I have not broken or do not exist. In fact, on the Conflict of Interest noticeboard, he says, "Despite an Arbcom caution (here), he has extensively edited these articles (please see the histories of the articles.) I interpret these extensive revisions as "aggressive" editing as well as an autobio violation on the Jeff Rosenbaum article." He redefines editing or what he calls "extensive revisions" (which they are NOT) as "aggressive"; no revert war or conflict with an editor necessary! If you review them, except for such edits as typos, grammar, linking names to their own Wiki articles, fixing links, and fixing or making new headings, all I've done for months on those and what he calls "Starwood-related" articles is add references and citations (usually because a tag was placed saying one was needed, or to support notability and avoid nomination for deletion or merging).
I seem to be all alone here, with Pigman opening discussions about me here and there, rallying folks, and the threat of a long contentious bout of interaction with Mattisse to anyone who sympathizes with me. What am I to do? Should I request an advocate? Is there such a thing anymore? Am I talking to the wrong person, and if so, who do I talk to? Rosencomet ( talk) 21:59, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
1. I have not been "editing aggressively" nor have I "violated the terms of the arbitration". I immediately sought advice from you about the issue, though none was forthcoming until now, nine days later. And to reinterpret any editing as aggressive editing is unfair, as is talking about 16 months of activity when refering to adhering to an arbitration that took place seven months ago. I should not be blocked for something I'm not doing.
2. Since the arbitration, most of the articles by far that I've created have been non-Starwood related, and my edits have been for the most part non-controversial. Even during the arbitration there was a recognition that my editing has improved.
3. I am not a "beneficiary" of the products ACE sells, nor am I "in a position to profit from the sale of these lecture tapes". I make absolutely nothing from them, nor from the totally voluntary work I do with ACE. I've explained this many times.
4. Yes, I know that editors do not own the articles they write or heavily edit. I was just trying to emphasize that, in the midst of all the accusations of aggressive this and hostile that and being "attacked", I (unlike other editors I have observed on Wikipedia) have not engaged in that sort of behavior, and should not be treated as if I have.
5. I do not "hire" speakers or entertainers for ACE events. ACE hires them, based on committee-of-the-whole vote. They hire people I never heard from, and turn down people I'd like to see there. To say that the article of any artist who appears at Starwood is a "Starwood-related article" is like saying no one who volunteer works for the Muscular Dystrophy Telethon may write or edit an article about anyone who has appeared on it over the decades; a sizable list indeed. (Yes, I know, Starwood is smaller; but the principle is the same. I'm using famliar examples.) Or if Domino's Pizza uses UPS, no one who works (much less a volunteer) at Domino's may edit an article about UPS. Or if you ever worked on an MGM movie, you can't edit an article about any actor, writer, choreographer, producer, director, dancer, musician, composer, etc etc who worked on an MGM picture. Rosencomet ( talk) 17:18, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
Is it you or an impersonator? Merry Christmas, Snowolf How can I help? 01:48, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
"We have a policy. Advocacy of pedophilia is not tolerated, nor is trolling for partners.
Fred"
This user didn't do any of that, nor is there any evidence that they were even aware that they did anything wrong. This ban comes almost a full year after this user was regularly active, and the statement on their userpage was made before the arbcom case. It is absolutely inappropriate to treat this user this way. It was made very clear in the arbcom case that blocking people simply because they were known pedophiles was not acceptable, and that is exactly what has happened. -- Ned Scott 05:19, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
Dear Thatcher,
I began asking you for help with the issue of Pigman, Kathryn and Mattisse on the 15th. Back on the 19th, you said you were going to address my concerns that night. It is now the 22nd, and I only now found out you were engaged in a long conversation here [ [81]] with Pigman and Kathryn since the 16th. I feel a little like I was not invited to my hanging. Not that I consider you the hangman; on the contrary, you did not seem to agree with them.
However, I still have not gotten any guidance, and Pigman is proceeding to rally editors against me in this one-sided situation. I have found this User:Pigman/Starwood-Rosencomet Watchlist, this Wikipedia:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard, and there are others.
In the past week, 18 articles I either created or regularly edit have been edited by these three. I know they have the right, but when does it become stalking to tag 20% of the articles an editor's created, and have a watchlist of all his work? When is it called creating a hostile environment? Some have had sections chopped out. A few have had scolding messages placed on their talk pages and/or edit summaries. One editor is being confronted for daring to support me. Three articles I've written have been nominated for deletion; one deleted MINUTES after I created it. (One nomination included posts from a User:Whpq, but the posts were signed by Mattisse [ [82]]. Is this a sock?) These edited articles include ones with no connection to Starwood or ACE. Third-party citations found to replace ones that link to the ACE website are now being challenged by Pigman. This feels like a multi-front attack, and I don't think Pigman will be satisfied until he gets me blocked completely.
I have not edited agressively or been in contention with editors for months. This seems to me to be a campaign to, as I've said, provoke me into anything that he can blow up into "agressive editing", and claim I've broken rules that either I have not broken or do not exist. In fact, on the Conflict of Interest noticeboard, he says, "Despite an Arbcom caution (here), he has extensively edited these articles (please see the histories of the articles.) I interpret these extensive revisions as "aggressive" editing as well as an autobio violation on the Jeff Rosenbaum article." He redefines editing or what he calls "extensive revisions" (which they are NOT) as "aggressive"; no revert war or conflict with an editor necessary! If you review them, except for such edits as typos, grammar, linking names to their own Wiki articles, fixing links, and fixing or making new headings, all I've done for months on those and what he calls "Starwood-related" articles is add references and citations (usually because a tag was placed saying one was needed, or to support notability and avoid nomination for deletion or merging).
I seem to be all alone here, with Pigman opening discussions about me here and there, rallying folks, and the threat of a long contentious bout of interaction with Mattisse to anyone who sympathizes with me. What am I to do? Should I request an advocate? Is there such a thing anymore? Am I talking to the wrong person, and if so, who do I talk to? Rosencomet ( talk) 21:59, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
1. I have not been "editing aggressively" nor have I "violated the terms of the arbitration". I immediately sought advice from you about the issue, though none was forthcoming until now, nine days later. And to reinterpret any editing as aggressive editing is unfair, as is talking about 16 months of activity when refering to adhering to an arbitration that took place seven months ago. I should not be blocked for something I'm not doing.
2. Since the arbitration, most of the articles by far that I've created have been non-Starwood related, and my edits have been for the most part non-controversial. Even during the arbitration there was a recognition that my editing has improved.
3. I am not a "beneficiary" of the products ACE sells, nor am I "in a position to profit from the sale of these lecture tapes". I make absolutely nothing from them, nor from the totally voluntary work I do with ACE. I've explained this many times.
4. Yes, I know that editors do not own the articles they write or heavily edit. I was just trying to emphasize that, in the midst of all the accusations of aggressive this and hostile that and being "attacked", I (unlike other editors I have observed on Wikipedia) have not engaged in that sort of behavior, and should not be treated as if I have.
5. I do not "hire" speakers or entertainers for ACE events. ACE hires them, based on committee-of-the-whole vote. They hire people I never heard from, and turn down people I'd like to see there. To say that the article of any artist who appears at Starwood is a "Starwood-related article" is like saying no one who volunteer works for the Muscular Dystrophy Telethon may write or edit an article about anyone who has appeared on it over the decades; a sizable list indeed. (Yes, I know, Starwood is smaller; but the principle is the same. I'm using famliar examples.) Or if Domino's Pizza uses UPS, no one who works (much less a volunteer) at Domino's may edit an article about UPS. Or if you ever worked on an MGM movie, you can't edit an article about any actor, writer, choreographer, producer, director, dancer, musician, composer, etc etc who worked on an MGM picture. Rosencomet ( talk) 17:18, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
Is it you or an impersonator? Merry Christmas, Snowolf How can I help? 01:48, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
"We have a policy. Advocacy of pedophilia is not tolerated, nor is trolling for partners.
Fred"
This user didn't do any of that, nor is there any evidence that they were even aware that they did anything wrong. This ban comes almost a full year after this user was regularly active, and the statement on their userpage was made before the arbcom case. It is absolutely inappropriate to treat this user this way. It was made very clear in the arbcom case that blocking people simply because they were known pedophiles was not acceptable, and that is exactly what has happened. -- Ned Scott 05:19, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
I really think something isn't working. Perhaps a 3rd rfar is necesary? How long will this nonsense continue? People are just gaming the system to its fullest. -- Cat chi? 17:26, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
Very nice way to deal with the scheduling issue; thanks for coming up with that! Kirill 00:27, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
You need to do something, or else the credibility of the admins will go out of the window. John's block of Fedayee is too inappropriate. Even assuming John is innocent, it does look suspicious, and that's bad enough. He didn't as much as chastise Ehud for the insults that he made, he went as far as to justify them. Noone is blocked for not assuming good faith. Especially when Fedayee has some basis for believing Ehud to be a sockpuppet. And noone is blocked without an official warning on the page of the user--simple requests on the ArbCom page don't count. Fedayee's block needs to be lifted, unless you want members to think of administrators as a joke and tools for some users.-- TigranTheGreat ( talk) 09:43, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
Hi again, Thatcher. Just to make some things clear. WP:AGF is not a policy. It is a guideline which "is not set in stone and should be treated with common sense and the occasional exception." ( WP:AGF). Saying that someone is a sockpuppet is not a violation of AGF--someone may engage in sockpuppetry with good faith (i.e. believing that he is making Wikipedia better).
Furthermore, a penalty should be applied after an official warning is placed on a user's talk page, and the user is told that continued violation will result in blocking. It's spelled out in the ArbCom decision: "Before any penalty is applied, a warning placed on the editor's user talk page by an administrator shall serve as notice to the user that these remedies apply to them." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan_2. Thank you.-- TigranTheGreat ( talk) 10:15, 27 December 2007 (UTC)
Feedback is requested on what to do with Giano's deleted talk page, since there's evidence included in the history of the page. Users are debating on m:vanish issues, while Jehochman has suggested an alternative regarding the clerk of the case, I guess that means you. :-) Thanks. - Mtmelendez ( Talk) 02:44, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
Hi Thatcher, I find you comments at WP:ANI where quite rude. :( Also, could you please explain to me why you believe the conversation should be archived so quickly? -- CyclePat ( talk) 07:59, 28 December 2007 (UTC)