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Archive 10 | ← | Archive 13 | Archive 14 | Archive 15 | Archive 16 | Archive 17 | → | Archive 20 |
Hello Pesky! You are cordially invited to a discussion at the verifiability mediation in which we will be deciding once and for all what combination of drafts and general questions we should have in the RfC. We would love to hear your input, so why not hop over and let us know your views when you next have the chance. Thanks! — Mr. Stradivarius ( have a chat) 16:15, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
Greetings! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Wikipedia talk:Summary style. Should you wish to respond to the invitation, your contribution to this discussion will be very much appreciated! If in doubt, please see suggestions for responding. If you do not wish to receive these types of notices, please remove your name from Wikipedia:Feedback request service. — RFC bot ( talk) 18:20, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
I (and my family) are absolutely overwhelmed by the messages of love, sympathy, affection and everything here. It's amazing. Thank you all so much.
Here are a couple of songs which Mummy always loved; we'll be including them in her funeral music.
I hope you guys love these as much as she did, and we do. Pesky ( talk) 08:25, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
Hush, lay down your troubled mind |
Let your arms enfold us |
Sleep, angels will watch over you |
Let your arms enfold us |
I was following the shenanigans on ANI last night and saw your post. Please accept my deepest sympathy; I lost my mother two years ago, and hope you can cherish the memories (painful though that may be now). Take care and all the best, Miniapolis ( talk) 14:57, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
Pesky, I just now saw your note at the verifiability mediation page, and I want to offer you my deepest best wishes and sympathy. -- Tryptofish ( talk) 17:26, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
Hello again Pesky. Do you think the upcoming verifiability RfC should use a system of protection and transclusion, as was found in the recent pending changes RfC, or should we just keep the entire RfC unprotected? There are good arguments both for and against, and at the moment we are at a stalemate. Could you give your opinion on the matter? The discussion thread is here. Best — Mr. Stradivarius ( have a chat) 14:29, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
I haven't seen you around as much lately although I fully understand as I know you have a lot on your plate right now, but you've been on my mind. Good thoughts, too, hoping that all is well enough. Hoping you find the time to get some rest, some peace of mind, quality personal time, some healing. I only know you from afar, but what I know, I like. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 21:53, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
For the wonderful Pesky. Come chat on IRC! Pine ✉ 06:05, 16 June 2012 (UTC) |
Oooh! Man bearing caffeine! [Pesky schlurps] Just what I needed! Pesky ( talk) 19:32, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
Buster7 has given you a Nice Koekjes which promote fellowship, goodwill and WikiLove. Hopefully this one has made your day better. You can spread the good flavor of Nice Koekjes around Wiki World by giving someone else one. Maybe to a friend or, better yet, to someone you have had disagreements with in the past. Nice Biscuits are very tasty and have been known to be so NICE, they will even bake themselves. Enjoy! ``` Buster Seven Talk 12:14, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
Breathing out a light spray of koekje crumbs as she speaks :] Darwinbish has stolen your koekje! The koekje made her happy and she'd like to give you a great big hug for leaving it where she could reach it. Spread the WikiLove by giving her more koekjes, unless you want her boys to pay you a visit! darwinbish BITE 14:40, 16 June 2012 (UTC).
Hahaha! Buster, thanks for the koekje, which has been involuntarily donated to Darwinbish! Those Nice biscuits always make me smile – my brother used to hate them, and I used to tease him by trying to force him to eat them, saying: "But it's a Nice biscuit, it even says so!" Of course, that was in the days when he was a scrubby little urchin, as opposed to now, when he's the CEO of a major offshore financial institution ... I still find it hard to fathom how he managed the transformation! Pesky ( talk) 19:31, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
Checking the history of the above it looks as though my edit removed your previous edit. Perhaps an edit conflict, I am not sure, but apologies anyway if I was the cause - not in any way intended. Velella Velella Talk 09:37, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
Greetings! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Wikipedia talk:User access levels. Should you wish to respond to the invitation, your contribution to this discussion will be very much appreciated! If in doubt, please see suggestions for responding. If you do not wish to receive these types of notices, please remove your name from Wikipedia:Feedback request service. — RFC bot ( talk) 19:18, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
Done
WikiProject Penyulap, some guideance would be lovely. Penyulap ☏ 01:52, 25 Jun 2012 (UTC)
Congrats on the recent promotion of your first FA!!! Here's hoping there will be lots more of them in the future :) Let me know if there is anything I can take a look at, if you have a plan for what you want to take on next. Dana boomer ( talk) 23:49, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, guys :D I had a lot of assistance through it; my mother's death interfered a bit with my ability to keep on top of the review at times! Much appreciation for all those who chipped in and helped out.
Oooooooh! "Featured topic", eh?! Now that sounds challenging and fun ;P I'll have to work-up all those mountain and moorland articles. Pesky ( talk) 13:36, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
Hello again Pesky. This is to let you know that I have made a final call for alterations to the verifiability RfC draft. Unless there is a very good reason for it not to, the RfC will be going live around 10.00 am (UTC) on Thursday June 28. Even if you would not like to see any further changes to the RfC draft, it would be a great help if you could check over the draft page and make sure everything is working properly. Thanks for your continued patience with this. — Mr. Stradivarius ( have a chat) 14:18, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
At the moment I'm looking mostly for anything UK-related, but any kewl horsey tidbits are welcome here. Pesky ( talk) 19:34, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
Could I get you to have a look at User:One21dot216dot, who has been having a lot of trouble recently. But perhaps more pertinently, could you suggest ways for me to improve my communication with him. I think he has the wrong end of the stick on a recent Australian political controversy, but I really don't know how to set him straight without causing him genuine distress. I've read your essay - for which many thanks - but I'm still floundering. The editor has shown that he is capable of immense and dedicated effort, and we need people like him, but he's being treated very poorly by some. -- Pete ( talk) 23:34, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
I think you've probably got a big part of the problem when you say My problem, I guess, is that I don't like to spell things out, I like to have people take the next step in a logical argument themselves... That certainly doesn't work well with quite a big range of people; we must all always remember that other people's thought processes aren't necessarily the same as our own, whether they / we are Autism-spectrum or not. It's one of those things which can be very hard to "get", as the only thought-processes which we know intimately are our own, and it's all too easy to assume that just because we think in a particular way, which is "normal" (to us!), then everyone else thinks through the same mechanisms too – we have two ears and one mouth, therefore everyone else is likely to, is a reasonable assumption. But when it comes to the hardware and software of brains, it doesn't apply the same way at all. So, yes, in future, be very careful to spell thing out in the least-ambiguous possible way. It's a wise move to try and avoid the use of idioms, as well; idioms fail us when dealing with either Autism-spectrum people or with people who don't use English as their first language. English is a bugger of a language!
Your other major challenge, from my research into your talk contributions, is that though you often have very good points, they are frequently totally overshadowed by the way in which you make them. You appear to have a tendency to descend into snark too often and too readily, and people almost-inevitably react to the snark rather than taking on board the underlying point. That's something which you really need to address. You have a tendency to reach for the war-axe rather than the shared beer, and it's not helping you.
Alternative solutions:
I hope my thoughts here are helpful to you. Pesky ( talk) 08:39, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
I've always found you to be one of the best editors to work with ... but then we have a fair few things in common! Pesky ( talk) 15:42, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
I should help you pimp your page or something as an award, I need direction I figure.
Penyulap
☏ 16:28, 26 Jun 2012 (UTC)
If you really need direction, how about some nice gnoming; with this in your armoury? Pesky ( talk) 16:36, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
See horse burial. May want to add stuff on the UK. Montanabw (talk) 18:45, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
Do you think I'm out of line here too much, not enough, or about my usual ? Penyulap ☏ 05:33, 29 Jun 2012 (UTC)
... is a good day, hope for you too ;) -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 07:02, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
Well, someone at wikiproject penyulap has made some observations and it's rather delicate. You see, as we both know my bot gets up to far too much mischief, and as I am somehow supposed to be held responsible for his numerous misdeeds, bad acting on the pesky express come to mind and so on, his antics at wikiproject penyulap have consisted exclusively of suggesting that they need a catchy slogan while waving the no penyulap placard, and making what some might misconstrue as a death threat. Thing is, someone is suggesting his observations match their own, so there are many dilemmas here. I don't on one hand want to cause embarrassment by suggesting the observations of that observer may not be as observant as they could be, and while I do take the blame for that little %*#& PALZ9000 causing trouble, there is the flipside that if he is causing trouble by making inappropriate remarks which confuse people into thinking he's not a bot, then if they are agreeing I should be, well, you know, that would sortof suggest they're not in fact confused by him because they haven't noticed anything beyond cut'n'pasting his name that they could actually lay claim to. Unless it was the slogan, which is fair enough, every such endeavor needs a slogan and I would really hate for it to be three words long starting with burn and ending with witch, I'd rather something modern, upbeat, catchy, so really for the trouble that bot causes, the little bugger has a point there. Modern, catchy, I like that. What rhymes with blow him out of the hatch ? and how would you reduce 'isolate the ISS talkpage from the rest of the wikiproject and depressurize it while Penyulap's in there' down to something easier to work with ? I don't want to leave everything to PALZ, his skills in poetry leave much to be desired, though I dare say he does have some nice dreams.
Anyhow, like I was trying to convince Acadēmica Orientālis, not every comment should have a response, sometimes it's better to say nothing at all. Certainly I wouldn't want anyone subjected to an angry Auntie twice in a row, I can imagine how overly chastised that would make me feel. Naught but a sideways glance from you has more effect on me than, well, anything else.
The waltzing is something I'd love to address really, I am accused of waltzing in a displeasing manner, and it seems to make someone mope about and I would love to have them enthusiastic about sprucing up an article instead. Hmm. Penyulap ☏ 05:39, 2 Jul 2012 (UTC)
You really do seem to be not entirely in a good place; you're a touch more heated in places than is entirely good for you. It's "coming across" as the kind of irritability that people / animals get with chronic pain, or chronic itchiness. I think possibly the most important thing for you to remember is that the vast majority of people just can't help not being able to process such a huge amount of information at the speeds which you are capable of; they just can't help not seeing things with the lightning-clarity that you frequently do, any more than they can help what colour eyes they were born with. So you need to be very patient with them (like you would be (hopefully!) if you were dealing with a puppy or a toddler).
The other side of the autie coin (as always!) is that you often just can't help not immediately seeing some of the stuff that's clear to neurotypicals. But this one you can change; take some time to try and think like a neurotypical, especially take some time to try and think like the ones you have most of your challenges with. In many instances neither side is seeing the other side's true colours. Be a tad more giving with your love and understanding, be a little more gentle and perceptive of what's going on in other people's minds; you have the brain to be able to accomplish this. The onus is on you to make allowances for others more than it is on others to make allowances for you, the same way the onus is on me to learn the "language" of the animals I deal with, rather than expecting them to be able to learn English!
I sup[pose, ultimately, the key is this: when you're working entirely on your own, you can go at whatever warp-speed and wormhole-leaps you like. But whenever you're working with a team, the mark of true leadership is the ability to pace yourself to the abilities of the slowest / weakest / least able, etc. Instead of having the autie-typical "How can I get over this obstacle", you need to change to the principle-centred-leadership "How can we get over this obstacle. All of us. Not leaving anyone behind or damaged." Pesky ( talk) 07:24, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
Hi Pesky! I just had a thought - how about moving User:ThatPeskyCommoner/Autism-spectrum and Aspergers editors into Wikipedia space? I think it is mature enough to make a good Wikipedia-space essay, and I can't foresee any problems with doing so. Let me know whether you think this is a good idea or not. — Mr. Stradivarius on tour ( have a chat) 06:01, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but I saw it while talk page browsing and thought you might be interested. Wikipedia:WikiProject_Editor_Retention Intothatdarkness ( talk) 16:31, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
Not sure if this germaine or not, but I was at a deaf clinic with my wife earlier today (she's the deaf one, not me), and while I was waiting for her to be seen I was reading through the leaflets on display. Several of the points they made seemed quite relevant to Wikipedia:
... and lots more like that. I guess the point I'm making is that unless we know something about each other we can have no way of knowing how best to communicate with each other. Insisting on a standardised WikiSpeak is not the way forward. Malleus Fatuorum 21:35, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
And just to elaborate on that, I couldn't give a monkey's arse about being called a fucking cunt by someone I wouldn't piss on if they were on fire, but I do understand that others may not take such a robust view. That's partly why I'm always a little uncomfortable when I don't know the gender of the editor I'm talking to, as there are things that even I would hesitate to say to a woman that I would have no compunction in saying to a man. Not sure where this is going ... time for a beer. Malleus Fatuorum 21:45, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
I liked and agreed with your comments at that AC page .. the comic strip is at: User:Geogre/Comic btw. Have a great day. — Ched : ? 12:59, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
... but in battalions."
Never bloody ends! My younger son has just been diagnosed with a PE, and will now be on Warfarin for at least six months. We're keeping him at home, under my eye, until his breathing has settled down a bit. Poor kid has had so much shite to handle over the past few years. Pesky ( talk) 07:29, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
Pesky, I know we've only crossed paths a couple times, but you and your son are in my thoughts. I hope dearly that his recovery is smooth and speedy. Best wishes, Keilana| Parlez ici 04:48, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
Best Pesky, — MistyMorn ( talk) 10:14, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
Good thought. For thesaurus, see [1]. bishzilla ROARR!! 21:44, 6 July 2012 (UTC).
So much for equality.
Pesky (
talk) 07:34, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
I often wonder just what their thinking processes are – and it's becoming increasingly clear that we're not just talking about wired-in instinctive behaviour.
When one (or more) of the cats began to drag poop-scoop bags into the kitty litter tray in their "burying" mode, I was quite prepared to accept that as pure coincidence, as the bags were close to the tray. But the bags have been moved out of reach. And on quite a few occasions I've discovered the kitty-litter scooper in the tray (possibly as a gentle hint to The Staff that something needs to be done?)
But, this morning, I actually saw Bryn get out of the litter tray, pick up the scooper, drop it into the tray and try digging / hauling it around. Hmmmm. Is there some kind of thought-process here which suggests Magical Items which can clear the tray far better than feline ingenuity and skill can hope to achieve? Which not just buries the crap, but makes it magically disappear altogether? What exactly is he thinking here? Could this be where the concept of gods originated? Pesky ( talk) 04:15, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
2000 Cochabamba protests Penyulap ☏ 06:38, 5 Jul 2012 (UTC)
I've never had a problem with giving pills to cats. The sniff-thing with ferrets is interesting; you know the nature of the smell-sniff response tells you what the ferret thinks about what it's smelling? (like that little curl-nosed "huff!" they do when they really don;t like a scent?) They seem to use an exaggerated version of "I don't like that smell", combined with the physical "Alert!" stance, to mean something along the lines of "Attention! I can smell something I don't like!", which is definite interactive communication rather than just a personal expression of distaste. Pesky ( talk) 07:29, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
Came here to post about something else, but this discussion was far more interesting. What Malleus posted above ("The whole cross-species body language stuff is a fascinating area. If I've remembered it right, if you're confronted by a black bear you should never run away, but you should if it's a grizzly.") prompted me to go look up what I read in Bear Attacks: Their Causes and Avoidance (Stephen Herrero, revised 2002 edition, 282pp) while touring Yellowstone Park last year (in a coach, so I didn't really need to read it, but still). It essentially said the best way to avoid bear attacks is to not put yourself in a situation where a bear might encounter you let alone attack you (seems obvious, but you know what they say about an ounce of prevention). The thing with black bears, apparently, is to work out whether they are defending themselves or looking for food. The advice was if they start trying to eat you, then fight back, but otherwise stay still (play dead) and wait for them to leave. It also depends largely on the situation (is the bear defending cubs, or a recent kill, have you surprised them, things like that). It can also be difficult to distinguish a grizzly and a black bear. The thing about grizzlies, apparently, is that if they are bold enough to approach you, they have likely been habituated to humans (and associate them with food) and will try and eat you regardless, so you need to fight back and/or run, though again it does depend on the circumstances. There is a fascinating chapter ('Characteristics of Bears') where the author tries to help the reader think and feel like a bear, though he does quote Wittgenstein in saying "If a lion could talk, we could not understand him" (i.e. lions, bears, and indeed ferrets, see the world differently to us and their behaviour and instincts come from their adaptations to the environments they evolved in, as indeed do ours). Carcharoth ( talk) 21:12, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 10 | ← | Archive 13 | Archive 14 | Archive 15 | Archive 16 | Archive 17 | → | Archive 20 |
Hello Pesky! You are cordially invited to a discussion at the verifiability mediation in which we will be deciding once and for all what combination of drafts and general questions we should have in the RfC. We would love to hear your input, so why not hop over and let us know your views when you next have the chance. Thanks! — Mr. Stradivarius ( have a chat) 16:15, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
Greetings! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Wikipedia talk:Summary style. Should you wish to respond to the invitation, your contribution to this discussion will be very much appreciated! If in doubt, please see suggestions for responding. If you do not wish to receive these types of notices, please remove your name from Wikipedia:Feedback request service. — RFC bot ( talk) 18:20, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
I (and my family) are absolutely overwhelmed by the messages of love, sympathy, affection and everything here. It's amazing. Thank you all so much.
Here are a couple of songs which Mummy always loved; we'll be including them in her funeral music.
I hope you guys love these as much as she did, and we do. Pesky ( talk) 08:25, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
Hush, lay down your troubled mind |
Let your arms enfold us |
Sleep, angels will watch over you |
Let your arms enfold us |
I was following the shenanigans on ANI last night and saw your post. Please accept my deepest sympathy; I lost my mother two years ago, and hope you can cherish the memories (painful though that may be now). Take care and all the best, Miniapolis ( talk) 14:57, 2 June 2012 (UTC)
Pesky, I just now saw your note at the verifiability mediation page, and I want to offer you my deepest best wishes and sympathy. -- Tryptofish ( talk) 17:26, 11 June 2012 (UTC)
Hello again Pesky. Do you think the upcoming verifiability RfC should use a system of protection and transclusion, as was found in the recent pending changes RfC, or should we just keep the entire RfC unprotected? There are good arguments both for and against, and at the moment we are at a stalemate. Could you give your opinion on the matter? The discussion thread is here. Best — Mr. Stradivarius ( have a chat) 14:29, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
I haven't seen you around as much lately although I fully understand as I know you have a lot on your plate right now, but you've been on my mind. Good thoughts, too, hoping that all is well enough. Hoping you find the time to get some rest, some peace of mind, quality personal time, some healing. I only know you from afar, but what I know, I like. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 21:53, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
For the wonderful Pesky. Come chat on IRC! Pine ✉ 06:05, 16 June 2012 (UTC) |
Oooh! Man bearing caffeine! [Pesky schlurps] Just what I needed! Pesky ( talk) 19:32, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
Buster7 has given you a Nice Koekjes which promote fellowship, goodwill and WikiLove. Hopefully this one has made your day better. You can spread the good flavor of Nice Koekjes around Wiki World by giving someone else one. Maybe to a friend or, better yet, to someone you have had disagreements with in the past. Nice Biscuits are very tasty and have been known to be so NICE, they will even bake themselves. Enjoy! ``` Buster Seven Talk 12:14, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
Breathing out a light spray of koekje crumbs as she speaks :] Darwinbish has stolen your koekje! The koekje made her happy and she'd like to give you a great big hug for leaving it where she could reach it. Spread the WikiLove by giving her more koekjes, unless you want her boys to pay you a visit! darwinbish BITE 14:40, 16 June 2012 (UTC).
Hahaha! Buster, thanks for the koekje, which has been involuntarily donated to Darwinbish! Those Nice biscuits always make me smile – my brother used to hate them, and I used to tease him by trying to force him to eat them, saying: "But it's a Nice biscuit, it even says so!" Of course, that was in the days when he was a scrubby little urchin, as opposed to now, when he's the CEO of a major offshore financial institution ... I still find it hard to fathom how he managed the transformation! Pesky ( talk) 19:31, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
Checking the history of the above it looks as though my edit removed your previous edit. Perhaps an edit conflict, I am not sure, but apologies anyway if I was the cause - not in any way intended. Velella Velella Talk 09:37, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
Greetings! You have been randomly selected to receive an invitation to participate in the request for comment on Wikipedia talk:User access levels. Should you wish to respond to the invitation, your contribution to this discussion will be very much appreciated! If in doubt, please see suggestions for responding. If you do not wish to receive these types of notices, please remove your name from Wikipedia:Feedback request service. — RFC bot ( talk) 19:18, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
Done
WikiProject Penyulap, some guideance would be lovely. Penyulap ☏ 01:52, 25 Jun 2012 (UTC)
Congrats on the recent promotion of your first FA!!! Here's hoping there will be lots more of them in the future :) Let me know if there is anything I can take a look at, if you have a plan for what you want to take on next. Dana boomer ( talk) 23:49, 22 June 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, guys :D I had a lot of assistance through it; my mother's death interfered a bit with my ability to keep on top of the review at times! Much appreciation for all those who chipped in and helped out.
Oooooooh! "Featured topic", eh?! Now that sounds challenging and fun ;P I'll have to work-up all those mountain and moorland articles. Pesky ( talk) 13:36, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
Hello again Pesky. This is to let you know that I have made a final call for alterations to the verifiability RfC draft. Unless there is a very good reason for it not to, the RfC will be going live around 10.00 am (UTC) on Thursday June 28. Even if you would not like to see any further changes to the RfC draft, it would be a great help if you could check over the draft page and make sure everything is working properly. Thanks for your continued patience with this. — Mr. Stradivarius ( have a chat) 14:18, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
At the moment I'm looking mostly for anything UK-related, but any kewl horsey tidbits are welcome here. Pesky ( talk) 19:34, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
Could I get you to have a look at User:One21dot216dot, who has been having a lot of trouble recently. But perhaps more pertinently, could you suggest ways for me to improve my communication with him. I think he has the wrong end of the stick on a recent Australian political controversy, but I really don't know how to set him straight without causing him genuine distress. I've read your essay - for which many thanks - but I'm still floundering. The editor has shown that he is capable of immense and dedicated effort, and we need people like him, but he's being treated very poorly by some. -- Pete ( talk) 23:34, 24 June 2012 (UTC)
I think you've probably got a big part of the problem when you say My problem, I guess, is that I don't like to spell things out, I like to have people take the next step in a logical argument themselves... That certainly doesn't work well with quite a big range of people; we must all always remember that other people's thought processes aren't necessarily the same as our own, whether they / we are Autism-spectrum or not. It's one of those things which can be very hard to "get", as the only thought-processes which we know intimately are our own, and it's all too easy to assume that just because we think in a particular way, which is "normal" (to us!), then everyone else thinks through the same mechanisms too – we have two ears and one mouth, therefore everyone else is likely to, is a reasonable assumption. But when it comes to the hardware and software of brains, it doesn't apply the same way at all. So, yes, in future, be very careful to spell thing out in the least-ambiguous possible way. It's a wise move to try and avoid the use of idioms, as well; idioms fail us when dealing with either Autism-spectrum people or with people who don't use English as their first language. English is a bugger of a language!
Your other major challenge, from my research into your talk contributions, is that though you often have very good points, they are frequently totally overshadowed by the way in which you make them. You appear to have a tendency to descend into snark too often and too readily, and people almost-inevitably react to the snark rather than taking on board the underlying point. That's something which you really need to address. You have a tendency to reach for the war-axe rather than the shared beer, and it's not helping you.
Alternative solutions:
I hope my thoughts here are helpful to you. Pesky ( talk) 08:39, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
I've always found you to be one of the best editors to work with ... but then we have a fair few things in common! Pesky ( talk) 15:42, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
I should help you pimp your page or something as an award, I need direction I figure.
Penyulap
☏ 16:28, 26 Jun 2012 (UTC)
If you really need direction, how about some nice gnoming; with this in your armoury? Pesky ( talk) 16:36, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
See horse burial. May want to add stuff on the UK. Montanabw (talk) 18:45, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
Do you think I'm out of line here too much, not enough, or about my usual ? Penyulap ☏ 05:33, 29 Jun 2012 (UTC)
... is a good day, hope for you too ;) -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 07:02, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
Well, someone at wikiproject penyulap has made some observations and it's rather delicate. You see, as we both know my bot gets up to far too much mischief, and as I am somehow supposed to be held responsible for his numerous misdeeds, bad acting on the pesky express come to mind and so on, his antics at wikiproject penyulap have consisted exclusively of suggesting that they need a catchy slogan while waving the no penyulap placard, and making what some might misconstrue as a death threat. Thing is, someone is suggesting his observations match their own, so there are many dilemmas here. I don't on one hand want to cause embarrassment by suggesting the observations of that observer may not be as observant as they could be, and while I do take the blame for that little %*#& PALZ9000 causing trouble, there is the flipside that if he is causing trouble by making inappropriate remarks which confuse people into thinking he's not a bot, then if they are agreeing I should be, well, you know, that would sortof suggest they're not in fact confused by him because they haven't noticed anything beyond cut'n'pasting his name that they could actually lay claim to. Unless it was the slogan, which is fair enough, every such endeavor needs a slogan and I would really hate for it to be three words long starting with burn and ending with witch, I'd rather something modern, upbeat, catchy, so really for the trouble that bot causes, the little bugger has a point there. Modern, catchy, I like that. What rhymes with blow him out of the hatch ? and how would you reduce 'isolate the ISS talkpage from the rest of the wikiproject and depressurize it while Penyulap's in there' down to something easier to work with ? I don't want to leave everything to PALZ, his skills in poetry leave much to be desired, though I dare say he does have some nice dreams.
Anyhow, like I was trying to convince Acadēmica Orientālis, not every comment should have a response, sometimes it's better to say nothing at all. Certainly I wouldn't want anyone subjected to an angry Auntie twice in a row, I can imagine how overly chastised that would make me feel. Naught but a sideways glance from you has more effect on me than, well, anything else.
The waltzing is something I'd love to address really, I am accused of waltzing in a displeasing manner, and it seems to make someone mope about and I would love to have them enthusiastic about sprucing up an article instead. Hmm. Penyulap ☏ 05:39, 2 Jul 2012 (UTC)
You really do seem to be not entirely in a good place; you're a touch more heated in places than is entirely good for you. It's "coming across" as the kind of irritability that people / animals get with chronic pain, or chronic itchiness. I think possibly the most important thing for you to remember is that the vast majority of people just can't help not being able to process such a huge amount of information at the speeds which you are capable of; they just can't help not seeing things with the lightning-clarity that you frequently do, any more than they can help what colour eyes they were born with. So you need to be very patient with them (like you would be (hopefully!) if you were dealing with a puppy or a toddler).
The other side of the autie coin (as always!) is that you often just can't help not immediately seeing some of the stuff that's clear to neurotypicals. But this one you can change; take some time to try and think like a neurotypical, especially take some time to try and think like the ones you have most of your challenges with. In many instances neither side is seeing the other side's true colours. Be a tad more giving with your love and understanding, be a little more gentle and perceptive of what's going on in other people's minds; you have the brain to be able to accomplish this. The onus is on you to make allowances for others more than it is on others to make allowances for you, the same way the onus is on me to learn the "language" of the animals I deal with, rather than expecting them to be able to learn English!
I sup[pose, ultimately, the key is this: when you're working entirely on your own, you can go at whatever warp-speed and wormhole-leaps you like. But whenever you're working with a team, the mark of true leadership is the ability to pace yourself to the abilities of the slowest / weakest / least able, etc. Instead of having the autie-typical "How can I get over this obstacle", you need to change to the principle-centred-leadership "How can we get over this obstacle. All of us. Not leaving anyone behind or damaged." Pesky ( talk) 07:24, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
Hi Pesky! I just had a thought - how about moving User:ThatPeskyCommoner/Autism-spectrum and Aspergers editors into Wikipedia space? I think it is mature enough to make a good Wikipedia-space essay, and I can't foresee any problems with doing so. Let me know whether you think this is a good idea or not. — Mr. Stradivarius on tour ( have a chat) 06:01, 27 June 2012 (UTC)
Sorry if this has been mentioned before, but I saw it while talk page browsing and thought you might be interested. Wikipedia:WikiProject_Editor_Retention Intothatdarkness ( talk) 16:31, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
Not sure if this germaine or not, but I was at a deaf clinic with my wife earlier today (she's the deaf one, not me), and while I was waiting for her to be seen I was reading through the leaflets on display. Several of the points they made seemed quite relevant to Wikipedia:
... and lots more like that. I guess the point I'm making is that unless we know something about each other we can have no way of knowing how best to communicate with each other. Insisting on a standardised WikiSpeak is not the way forward. Malleus Fatuorum 21:35, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
And just to elaborate on that, I couldn't give a monkey's arse about being called a fucking cunt by someone I wouldn't piss on if they were on fire, but I do understand that others may not take such a robust view. That's partly why I'm always a little uncomfortable when I don't know the gender of the editor I'm talking to, as there are things that even I would hesitate to say to a woman that I would have no compunction in saying to a man. Not sure where this is going ... time for a beer. Malleus Fatuorum 21:45, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
I liked and agreed with your comments at that AC page .. the comic strip is at: User:Geogre/Comic btw. Have a great day. — Ched : ? 12:59, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
... but in battalions."
Never bloody ends! My younger son has just been diagnosed with a PE, and will now be on Warfarin for at least six months. We're keeping him at home, under my eye, until his breathing has settled down a bit. Poor kid has had so much shite to handle over the past few years. Pesky ( talk) 07:29, 6 July 2012 (UTC)
Pesky, I know we've only crossed paths a couple times, but you and your son are in my thoughts. I hope dearly that his recovery is smooth and speedy. Best wishes, Keilana| Parlez ici 04:48, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
Best Pesky, — MistyMorn ( talk) 10:14, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
Good thought. For thesaurus, see [1]. bishzilla ROARR!! 21:44, 6 July 2012 (UTC).
So much for equality.
Pesky (
talk) 07:34, 7 July 2012 (UTC)
I often wonder just what their thinking processes are – and it's becoming increasingly clear that we're not just talking about wired-in instinctive behaviour.
When one (or more) of the cats began to drag poop-scoop bags into the kitty litter tray in their "burying" mode, I was quite prepared to accept that as pure coincidence, as the bags were close to the tray. But the bags have been moved out of reach. And on quite a few occasions I've discovered the kitty-litter scooper in the tray (possibly as a gentle hint to The Staff that something needs to be done?)
But, this morning, I actually saw Bryn get out of the litter tray, pick up the scooper, drop it into the tray and try digging / hauling it around. Hmmmm. Is there some kind of thought-process here which suggests Magical Items which can clear the tray far better than feline ingenuity and skill can hope to achieve? Which not just buries the crap, but makes it magically disappear altogether? What exactly is he thinking here? Could this be where the concept of gods originated? Pesky ( talk) 04:15, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
2000 Cochabamba protests Penyulap ☏ 06:38, 5 Jul 2012 (UTC)
I've never had a problem with giving pills to cats. The sniff-thing with ferrets is interesting; you know the nature of the smell-sniff response tells you what the ferret thinks about what it's smelling? (like that little curl-nosed "huff!" they do when they really don;t like a scent?) They seem to use an exaggerated version of "I don't like that smell", combined with the physical "Alert!" stance, to mean something along the lines of "Attention! I can smell something I don't like!", which is definite interactive communication rather than just a personal expression of distaste. Pesky ( talk) 07:29, 5 July 2012 (UTC)
Came here to post about something else, but this discussion was far more interesting. What Malleus posted above ("The whole cross-species body language stuff is a fascinating area. If I've remembered it right, if you're confronted by a black bear you should never run away, but you should if it's a grizzly.") prompted me to go look up what I read in Bear Attacks: Their Causes and Avoidance (Stephen Herrero, revised 2002 edition, 282pp) while touring Yellowstone Park last year (in a coach, so I didn't really need to read it, but still). It essentially said the best way to avoid bear attacks is to not put yourself in a situation where a bear might encounter you let alone attack you (seems obvious, but you know what they say about an ounce of prevention). The thing with black bears, apparently, is to work out whether they are defending themselves or looking for food. The advice was if they start trying to eat you, then fight back, but otherwise stay still (play dead) and wait for them to leave. It also depends largely on the situation (is the bear defending cubs, or a recent kill, have you surprised them, things like that). It can also be difficult to distinguish a grizzly and a black bear. The thing about grizzlies, apparently, is that if they are bold enough to approach you, they have likely been habituated to humans (and associate them with food) and will try and eat you regardless, so you need to fight back and/or run, though again it does depend on the circumstances. There is a fascinating chapter ('Characteristics of Bears') where the author tries to help the reader think and feel like a bear, though he does quote Wittgenstein in saying "If a lion could talk, we could not understand him" (i.e. lions, bears, and indeed ferrets, see the world differently to us and their behaviour and instincts come from their adaptations to the environments they evolved in, as indeed do ours). Carcharoth ( talk) 21:12, 6 July 2012 (UTC)