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Hi, I saw that you've been editing a few of the horse jumping articles recently. If this is an area of interest for you, I'd like to invite you to join WikiProject Equine. We've lost our specialist in the H/J stuff (I have some background, but I also have 1500+ WPEQ articles watchlisted, thus I've painted myself into a generalist corner) so if this is your thing, please join! Montanabw (talk) 23:30, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
Do not have any experience in Western topics, but can edit generally there. I'll start by nibbling at the edges in editing and clean-up by accessing the list of articles at the project page and selecting the ones I want to tackle. That might lead to more involvement. I still have other interests that attract me, but will keep coming back to the project while I believe I can make a contribution to its improvement. _ _ _ _ 83d40m ( talk) 20:49, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
The building became a middle school when Bozeman HS was built, later it housed the Bridger Alternative HS program but that is leaving [1] and I think it will be relegated to administrative offices. -- Mike Cline ( talk) 20:00, 20 January 2011 (UTC)
You said something not long ago (can't remember where ) about the Shetland (pony)/Shetland pony/Shetland Pony thing, and that it had been discussed at some point and a consensus reached for the middle version. Can you remember where or when that discussion was, and what the rationale was? Richard New Forest ( talk) 10:29, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
I wanted my own section too, so as to not hijack Pippa's completely. My business this time is this: is this horse quite a fatty or am I imagining things? Henneke BC score estimate? How about the animals in the relevant cat? Pitke ( talk) 23:38, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
After reading FHOTD: why do the animal welfare laws allow things like
If the last one was forbidden, people would have less chance of receiving money from their horse scraps as opposed to having to pay for putting it down. Pitke ( talk) 00:44, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
We also have an absolute multiple personality when it comes to horse slaughter. Keep in mind that most Americans absolutely refuse to eat horsemeat and think it's absolutely disgusting for anyone else to do so. (It's our favorite criticism of the French, we tell our naughty horses that they will get a one-way ticket to Paris if they don't behave!) But then we eat stuff like peeps and cheetos, so go figure. So we have no horses raised deliberately for the horsemeat market, we only sell the sick, the old, the broken down and the unsaleable culls. On one hand, in most states, horses are legally defined as livestock and could be sold for "salvage value" (i.e. slaughter, and yes, people ARE too cheap to euthanize, they'd rather get $100 for something half-dead than pay $150 for the shot and more to have the carcass hauled away and/or buried. But you have a good idea, to ban the sale of the half-dead stuff), but we have also shut down all horse slaughter plants in the US in recent years, for an assortment of reasons, mostly technical but related to public pressure. Many non-horse people and non-commercial horse owners think of horses as companion animals, and so we quietly run livestock auctions in most states, and virtually the only horses going through public auction are the ones no one wants and the canner buyers will get most of them. Our canners now just get shipped to Canada or Mexico for slaughter (and the conditions in Mexican slaughterhouses are horrific) Meanwhile, the horse slaughter issue is hugely emotional on both sides in the USA, there is legislation out there proposing to ban even the shipment of horses to slaughter, and at the same time, a lot of people blame our horse neglect problems on the closure of US horsemeat processing. All I can say for sure is that Montana is a place where slaughter horses have been shipped to Canada for decades (Calgary is closer than Texas, basically) and can still be shipped to Canada, but yet we still just recently had to bail out a large animal rescue place with 1200 animals (mostly Llamas, but a couple hundred horses and donkeys too) and also just had another guy half-starving 450 horses out on the open range rather than holding a "production sale." So there's no logic to it other than that there is no real market and very low horsemeat prices. That may not answer your questions, but it shows you what we are up against. Montanabw (talk) 04:53, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
On a totally random note, can't we please find a way to illustrate something, anything, with this? It's too great to go unused! Pitke ( talk) 08:33, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
Here in the UK (don't know what it's like elsewhere), you can't get someone prosecuted for cruelty to an animal that doesn't belong to them, or isn;t in their care. So people can go and walk into someone else's paddocks or stables, stab and slash and main the horses, and can't get done for cruelty, but only (if you're lucky) for 'criminal damage'. To me, that's as daft as saying that you can get done for GBH on a member of your own family, but not for some random stranger you happen tomug in the street! Your thoughts on this stupidity? ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 14:33, 11 February 2011 (UTC))
I can't keep my own talk page straight, so answering everything from the last couple of days here! (grin) Montanabw (talk) 07:41, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
Now everyone answer BELOW this! ;-) Montanabw (talk) 07:41, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
Hahaha! I'm sorry to have apparently hijacked your talk page, Montana :o)
If you need close-up pics of various horse colour / markings stuff, there's always a possibility that I may have (or be able to take) an 'all-own-work' illustrative pic. Or I may not - but it might be worth asking, lol! (It might take a while, till I have access to whichever of our many thousands of semi-ferals with the desired type happen to turn up an a round-up .......) Happy to help out if I can :) ( PippaRivers ( talk) 12:27, 3 February 2011 (UTC))
Which kind do you want? And what's the best way to upload? (And can I be darned lazy and just email them 'with author's permission to use' to someone else who can upload them .......... ) lol||! I have a kewl pic of a beautifully top-frosted and skunk-tailed bay rabicano New Forest pony, also various pics of markings of different types on some of my own animals, and Ben d'Or spot of a chestnut roan New Forest pony, and x,y, and z others( PippaRivers ( talk) 13:40, 3 February 2011 (UTC))
I shall play at photo-hunt amongst my (too many) pics. I have a friend who owns a bay-varnish-roan tobiano pintaloosa! I may be able to get a pic ..... I will try. I also have some of a strikingly-marked dun-appaloosa (almost stripy) foal which I encountered on a round-up and subsequently took pics of when it went through the sale yard. ( PippaRivers ( talk) 14:56, 3 February 2011 (UTC))
I uploaded a load! I have no idea how to direct you to them, but suppose my contributions would get them for you. I have so many pics .... most with their camera-produced names .... errrrk! Hunting them down relies on my memory of approximately when they were taken! ( PippaRivers ( talk) 16:36, 3 February 2011 (UTC))
Chzz ► helped me out with the link below, and Pitke ( talk) was a gem and catted them for me :o) I restore saddlery for a hobby / semi-income-generator. Got a few pics of the innards of saddles, if any use? Folks here in the UK don't seem to do much in the way of genetic testing (we're all either misers or skint - and I know which group I fall into!) so your chances of getting a pic of anything that's actually been tested from me are minimal!
( PippaRivers ( talk) 04:11, 5 February 2011 (UTC))
You're gonna love this. Honest you are. I have just dug out a load more pics (ponies and saddlery stuff) and have barely touched the surface. So I'm going to upload a heap (worst thing is remembering to go find out what date they were, so I can say so on uploading. I keep forgetting!) But ..... erm .... I still don't know how to cat them all :o( I'm too new at it. (I'm on a Mac, by the way). Soooooooo ...... if I send you a link to the stuff, could you (dear, sweet, kind Montana) possibly go and play with cats (no, not KITties) when I'm done? ( PippaRivers ( talk) 13:39, 7 February 2011 (UTC))
They're all here: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/PippaRivers :o) Including some saddle-innards, Aussie saddles, semi-flaxen ponies (partial flaxen dilution - seems to be working as an incomplete dominant, or summat ......), various types of saddles. Includes some old pack saddles - bet you don't find many pics of those! ( PippaRivers ( talk) 15:05, 7 February 2011 (UTC))
Ta muchly :o). I know it's possible to cat as you upload ... fing is, though, fing is, that I don't know what all the category names are, or where to find the blighters in the first place! A complete pull-down list (intelligent, so you can just put something darned obvious in), might be what I need. Of course, that might be what's there already ...... The lovely brown NF stallion was definitely courting (we have a vid at home of more playful behaviour ... nothing x-rated, just affectionate courtship flirting :o) ) ( PippaRivers ( talk) 16:30, 7 February 2011 (UTC))
I thought that few-spot leopard was supposed to be full-spot leopard in homozygous form? ???? ???? :o) ( PippaRivers ( talk) 20:40, 7 February 2011 (UTC))
No takers on the boa, then? [grins] (
PippaRivers (
talk)
16:21, 8 February 2011 (UTC))
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:BoaInTheBath.jpg She is an awesome creature :o) Still only just over half-grown, measuring just under 7 foot long at the moment. ( PippaRivers ( talk) 08:44, 9 February 2011 (UTC))
You mentioned something about maybe having articles on saddle making / repair / wossname :o) Could you do anything with stuff like this: http://www.seaspiritoftheforest.co.uk/Saddlery/saddlepanel.html or this: http://www.seaspiritoftheforest.co.uk/Saddlery/ReseatingHastilow.html
You could grab'n'paste ('n'edit!) the text, and ask me to upload here any of the pics which aren't yet here, if you like :o) ( PippaRivers ( talk) 11:50, 9 February 2011 (UTC))
As they're my pages, presumably it would be OK for me to copy stuff verbatim (except then I'd have to do that work thing and re-write it in a Wiki-kinda way as opposed to a how-to kinda way. How about you copy it verbatim with my permission (into your sandbox, lol, me being bone idle again, so what's new? And btw, thank's for the sandbox link on my page, you're a Nangel :o) ) and you do the donkey work on re-writing it in the correct 'mode' and run it by me .......... (dontcha just love it when someone says that, lol!) ( PippaRivers ( talk) 22:59, 9 February 2011 (UTC))
Check this out ......... http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Saddle_structure ( PippaRivers ( talk) 11:39, 10 February 2011 (UTC))
Who here has a tame geneticist (the lab-type, or "GN1", sort .....) they can bully nudge into playing "Name That Sabino!" We have SB1. The next obvious place to look for the prospective SB2 (or whatever) would seem (on logic ... yup, there I go again!) to be the
Clydesdale Horse. They don't throw SB1 Sabino whites / White Blagdons (ever, I think), but they do throw their own Sabino-pattern stuff all the time. And it's distinctive enough that you can pretty much look at that pattern, say "That's got Clydesdale in its breeding," and then confirm that it has from it's 'pedigree' (kindly provided by owner, for instance).(
ThatPeskyCommoner (
talk)
14:08, 11 February 2011 (UTC))
Noticing the trout-slapping bit. I have to say, I am all against it. Think of the ongoing psychological trauma for the poor trout, for example, if it was forced (against its will) to come into actual physical contact with me. Poor thing - doesn't bear thinking about.
How about "Wikipedians who will do almost anything for the biscuit but hide quivering under the table if the rolled-up newspaper appears" ? (oooops I forgot to log in again!) ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 13:33, 11 February 2011 (UTC))
Haha! (Read those. And a gazillion pages which they linked to, second, third level down .....)
Yes, maybe I'm a bit of a puppy at the moment. I shall try to be less puppyish and more constructive. (But at least I am a werewolfy puppy :-) ) I have been doing some minor tinkering with the Dartmoor Pony page (it seems a bit sparse, and had the usual problem of people believing that all ponies on Dartmoor must be Dartmoor Ponies (we have the same situation in the New Forest). I think I may actually go to a real-life library, source some good books (if there are many!) on the Dartmoor Pony, and do more with the article. Do the pic contribs make me less of a puppy? [Wags tail, flattens ears appealingly, does that wrinkly-nose doggy-smile thing - you know the one!] My problem at the moment (and possibly for a long time) will always be the one of "I know this, but where was the darned source of my knowledge?" We've mentioned this one before. I have real-life constraints about ability to visit library at the moment (can't drive safely yet due to surgery on hand last November, and as the OH and I are full-time carers for elderly parent, plus having way too many other real-life commitments, fitting in time for OH to take me to the library, plus finding granny-sitter, is problematical). There may be other UK-equine type pages where I can be useful. And I would love to work collaboratively with someone on some saddlery stuff - even if my biggest contribution is providing pics.
Maybe one of the reasons I'm a bit chatty in user space is that it's such a refreshing change to interact with people who actually have brains! ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 03:36, 12 February 2011 (UTC))
On the saddle thing, I don't know if in your travels you've ever torn apart a western saddle the way you've torn apart an English saddle, I know they aren't apt to be too common in your neck of the woods, but you'd be in my good graces for a very long time if you could produce a photo of a western saddle tree! I would be interested in collaboration improving the tack articles, we have a ton, most are still unsourced, some have bad info. I've got several books on tack, just been to lazy-ass to drag them out and do the articles. (You know, it's called real life...darn!) We have a good editor who is Australian and slaps us upside the head if we get too US-Centric in our lingo, but we're trying valiantly to keep all the different terms included somewhere. See, for example, halter. (BTW, the "rule" on wiki is whoever starts the article usually gets to dictate if it's US or UK English from there on out, unless there's a really logical reason to switch it -- like an article on London probably should be in UK English even if it was started in US, and vice- versa for, say, New York City)
I disassembled a child's Western-type saddle, with the intent of re-lining it. That was about five years ago - and guess what! Yup, all the bits are still in a box. Somewhere. The tree's cantle has split off at the top, so no-go on the rebuild job, but I daresay it could be glued together for a pic. (And I don't know if it's really representative of a 'normal' Western tree, as I don't know that much about Western saddles.) When I have a few moments spare, I'll take some piece-by-piece pics of a set of driving harness; they may be useful someday. I had to add a new section to my pwn talk page (for discussion) - go see What Wikipedia Is Not, for me, lol! I have been reading forever! Trying to rapid-learn-and-memorise everything on rules, guidelines, Wikiquette, and so on. I make goofy mistakes; probably always will. ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 07:15, 12 February 2011 (UTC))
btw, was it naff-Wikiquette for me to have reorganised my section on your talk page? If it was, then I do apologise! ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 07:32, 12 February 2011 (UTC))
How about a WikiWolfcub category ..... WikiPuppy with attitude who occasionally goes off on a hunting spree to attack articles and chew them around a bit? ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 10:56, 14 February 2011 (UTC))
I think I figured it out. With some input from Chzz :o) Does this work now? Wikipedia:WikiWolfcub ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 20:38, 15 February 2011 (UTC))
Got a dinky userbox on the WikiWolfcub page now for anyone who adopts a Wolfcub, either deliberately or by accident! You may want to use it as an excuse for getting overwhelmed, lol! Do you like? [cub wags tail, displays appealing ears, does that down-on-the-elbows thing - you know the one - adopt the cutie wolf-cub, go on, go on, you know you wanna play] ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 13:03, 17 February 2011 (UTC))
Looking at the British Riding Clubs thing (currently buried in the BHS page) - if I can expand it enough, would it merit an article of its own? References are all likely to come from their own website - is that good enough?
Similarly with the British Show Horse Association - I'm sure I can do a lot of expanding, but due to limited mobility, again all the info may well be likely to come from their own websites, so unlikely to be able to cite much in the way of other publications. What do you think? ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 13:03, 17 February 2011 (UTC))
Things like the BSHA and The Riding Clubs have always had championships and other competitions at major national/international shows - for example, the finals of things like the Riding Clubs Quadrille, and many of the BSHA classes, are held at the London International Horse Show at Olympia, which is one of the biggest shows of the British year, and gets TV coverage and so on. Other championship classes are at the Horse of the Year Show. Does that make them notable enough?( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 16:25, 17 February 2011 (UTC))
Dana, do feel free to call me "Pesky" - I won't take offence, coz I know it's true :o) ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 18:49, 17 February 2011 (UTC))
I've fluffed-up the BSHA and the Riding Clubs bit on the BHS page (nothing more to cite than their own websites). I think the problem with most of these societies is that the only people who might be interested in publishing anything about them are all far too busy playing with their horses, lol! ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 18:32, 17 February 2011 (UTC))
I was sorely tempted to bung in a bit more on the Riding Clubs Quadrille competition, just so I could puff-off how good our New Forest ponies are - the New Forest Pony Enthusiasts Club is a BRC member club, and the only club where all mounts are pure-bred registered NF ponies (and compete successfully against their horsey counterparts at all levels, bless 'em!). And WE WON the Quadrille at Olympia 2010! Yeeeeeee-haw! But I thought it might be giving undue weight to how brill my favourite British pony breed is :o) So I restrained my wolfcubbish pounce-and-play instincts, and was a Good Cub instead :o) ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 18:38, 17 February 2011 (UTC))
Watch part of it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGRHRTzGRHI They did good! And had a load of fun. And possibly the best thing is that the ponies who do that stuff also do the NF Point-to-Point race (I think the only P2P in Britain still run under the 'original' rules - start point set, finish point set, pick your own route) and they also do the Forest drifts, so very much 'working ponies'. See clips of all four finast teams here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkf7j2tbEjU&NR=1 Oooohhhh, found much better vid of the Foresters here : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTHZshxdMNY ; and the grey in there is a working stallion (as well as a Championship winner of Mountain and Moorland ponies!) Dontcha just gotta love 'em?
Maybe you could get something similar to the Quadrille to catch on in the USA? I don't think there's anough on the Quadrille to give it its own article!
And you could always do the sort of dancing where nobody's watching ... and yes, dance is a tremendously good thing for the whole body. As is floor-type gymnastics (when I was a full-time instructor, teaching wannabe instructors, I had them doing gymnastic stuff quite often, lol!) But I would go with the baggy-cargo-pants with reflective swirl-strips, personally, if anyone was watching. They focus on the sparkly bits, not the body underneath! I have to admit, I like rave-dancing. And I'm not too old for it, I can still do the splits! (Comes of having Ehlers-Danlos, but who cares?) ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 19:40, 17 February 2011 (UTC))
Faaaan-blerdy-tastic on the reining! Wow!
NFs are incredibly versatile animals, and make a wonderful outcross for a good all-around competition horse. Back in the 70's, in the area where I was working at the time, there were a lot of really good competition horses, working in all disciplines, which were mixtures of TB, NF and Welsh Section D. Nowadays everyone's into warmbloods ..... but I have a stunning NF x TB mare (wild, and a total diva, but stunning nonetheless - see File:ChestnutNFxTB.jpg), and I'd just love to find a really good TB x Welsh D stallion to put her to. (Imagine: chestnut mare, half TB, which I got completely unhandled as a six-year-old! A real 'project horse', lol! She's not halter-broken, but has been sat on. Hmmmmm!)
The Quadrille would catch on fast over in the USA, I'm sure. All it is is modified dressage-to-music (with a theme or story) for teams of four riders. I can just imagine a team of four stunning Arabs .... can't you? My first 'own-pony' (which I didn't get till I was nearly 20, and could only afford because he was a weanling when I got him) was Arab x Welsh, and such a stunner. And sooooooo well behaved - I used to teach little kiddies to ride on him (when he was older!), even though he wasn't gelded. You couldn't tell he was a stallion unless either (a) you put an in-season mare in front of him, or (b) you hunkered down to have a look underneath! I like a whole load of horse and pony breeds, always have done, but for me the NF's are the best UK pony breed, mainly for their versatility. They can happily carry a stone in weight for each hand in height, all day, when they're fit, so a lot are ridden by adults (specially round here!) All the riders in that Quadrille are adults (riding clubs are aimed at the over-18's, so it's really unusual to have an all-pony team doing anything at all). ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 03:53, 18 February 2011 (UTC))
I'm sure there's a USA branch of the New Forest Pony society ...... alternatively, find a rich sponsor, import some decent Foresters from over here (and the prices they're going for at the Beaulieu Road Sales these days are just ridiculous - our economy means the bottom's dropped right out of the market!) So it wouldn't break the bank, and start breeding some real decent ponies which can carry children and adults alike! My son bought a perfectly reasonable NF colt foal last year for just £10. No, I didn't miss off a zero! If there's a market for them over there, it could be your way to make a fortune, lol! ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 06:00, 18 February 2011 (UTC))
By the way, your Morgans are very like the finer-type Welsh Section D's :o) ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 06:13, 18 February 2011 (UTC))
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kimberwicke
Trust me on this ...... I suspect there may be many other articles on horsey tack stuff where the names derive from English place names. On my way through in search of things-I-can-add-to, I shall try and pick them out as I go. (Consider the Market Harborough martingale, the Rugby pelham - in fact, probably even the generic word 'Pelham' itself, as 'ham' is a place name - the Liverpool bit, the Worcester noseband, and so on ad infinitum). I've been wandering through tack articles and 'doing non-puppy-stuff' [wolf-cub wanna bone, gimme, gimme, good wolf-cub, waggy tail and wolfy tongue-lolling grin] ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 11:37, 13 February 2011 (UTC))
Too, too true! On the subject of pronunciation (I read the entire shaps/chaps thing yesterday!), here's one for you: which word in the English language is most often pronounced wrongly? ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 06:18, 14 February 2011 (UTC))
Suggesting re-titling the Welsh Pony article to "Welsh Pony and Cob"; see its Talk page ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 06:24, 18 February 2011 (UTC))
I actually managed to find and correctly insert loads of citations! (See Dartmoor Pony). [cub spins around chasing tail, kicking up the snow, catching snowflakes and generally playing the fool] ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 15:54, 18 February 2011 (UTC))
What would you think of merging Open stud book and Closed stud book to stud book? The latter is not huge (just under 17 kb), so could easily take the extra heft, and I think it would be easier to have all of the information in one place. Obviously, we'd have to put merge tags on all and wait to see if anyone else had issues, but bringing it here in advance so you can tell me if I'm way off base! Dana boomer ( talk) 20:47, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
I had one of those "I know I know it, but how do I know it?" moments at stupid o'clock this morning, so spent all day tracking down citations for my knowledge of pre-historic and early-historic uses of Exmoor ponies. Exhausting! But I have now managed to pre-date the History of the Breed section by about 1400 years from what it was, on the Exmoor Pony page. So I am well pleased, and deserve an extra-special wolf-toy. (That's in addition to the choccies I had to eat as brain-food in order to tidy up the refs and citations into something that looked reasonably Ok.) ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 20:39, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Lol! Chocolate is brain-food. I suspect that for actual wolves, chocs would be as toxic as thay are to dogs! I have tracked down a possible reference (in Bennet and Hoffman) to a possible reference (in Speed and Etherington, 1952-1953) relating Equus caballus alaskae to the Exmoor. Cubs like to dig! ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 22:43, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
You may be interested in [8] Cgoodwin ( talk) 06:39, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
I ranted a bit on my talk page. Just a bit, lol! ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 08:44, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
Hm. Yes, Pitke is right, I value my life. I'll be celebrating my 40th year of Arabian horse ownership this year, but after Arab and Arab-like critters, my second favorites tend to fall under "cute-faced, smart, sturdy, sort of pony-looking critters" Which is why the horse gods probably made me train so damned many Appaloosas back when I thought I'd try to go pro! (the process taught me respect for the intelligence of Appaloosas, which may have been the point. LOL!) I think this means that I enjoy hanging out with the sort of horses who, if they had opposable thumbs, would rule the universe. As for UK horses selling well in the USA, check out Gypsy Vanner horse, take an unregistered critter with leg feathering and piebald spots, import it and call it "rare" -- and VIOLA! It's worth $10K! (Am I too cynical??) All you really need to do is find those "god knows what color THAT is" too-much-white-unregisterable NFs who still have a decent disposition, call them something like "Marbled New Forest Ponies," stick them on a plane and you too could be a millionaire! LOL! Montanabw (talk) 23:05, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
The thing I can't wait for, just to teach 'em to use the correct names around here, is for one of our people to export a Forester to the USA, calling it a dun, and then get sued because it's a buckskin! ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 12:41, 19 February 2011 (UTC))
Over this way folks are pretty hot on being insured for all their little shows, as well as the big ones. But over here, will they "waste their money" on doing either a dun or cream test when they're positive it's a dun, and all their friends say it is, too ......... noooooo waaaaaaaay! ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 06:20, 20 February 2011 (UTC))
Somewhere in my humungous pic collection I have some pics of a buckskin Forester with really almost-convincing pseudo-dun markings - all sooty countershading, of course, but quite enough to fool most people. I always clarify the 'dorsal' thing with 'must have correct, clear-edged and distinct dorsal, continuous from poll through dock unless broken by white markings' when I try to explain to people.' And then try to explain things like the dilute tail-cap sides, mane guard hairs, ear-tips and so on! And no sooty in the body coat! I have yet to see a true dun with sooty in its diluted areas.( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 06:11, 21 February 2011 (UTC))
In my experience, the sooty, if the horse has it, will show wherever the dun doesn;t dilute - so yes, face, dorsal, shoulder capes and stripes and so on, will all show sooty if the horse has it anyway. (Real duns don't have much in the way of face dilution, so the sooty would show up there). If the horse doesn't have sooty, all the primitive markings tend to show as whatever the base colour would be. If you have query-pics, let me take a look at them (close-ups best) and I'll have a crack at identifying, and then give you the rationale behind it. ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 06:19, 21 February 2011 (UTC))
My 'real speciality' is in the real mini-minutiae of phenotype, and probably always has been :o) ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 06:26, 21 February 2011 (UTC))
And now for our 'golden' Foresters .... I wanna track down what that's all about! There are very few of them, and the phenotype's all wrong for dun, buckskin, champagne and so on. And they don't belong to me, so I'm not likely to be able to grab hairs for a DNA test - even if I could afford the DNA test! The body coat (on bay and chestnut) is definitely a bit diluted by something - to golden-glossy to be straight bay or chestnut - but who knows what? ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 06:33, 21 February 2011 (UTC))
I do try and keep up with all the dilution-gene stuff, and what-can-be-tested-for stuff .... but these guys just don't fit anywhere! The only time I may be able to get some pics is on this year's round-ups (drifts) ... that is, provided that they're obliging enough to allow themselves to be rounded up this year! At first glance, you might think there was something Champagney going on there, but they don't have the skin mottling, nor the semi-dilute black points, nor the dilute eyes. But they do have that almost-metallic-golden look about the body. Hmmmmm. I can't categorise them anywhere, lol! ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 06:55, 21 February 2011 (UTC))
I'll go with a dun diagnosis on him for the dorsal, but the head seems a bit more dilute for what I'd expect of a dun. Has he been tested for champagne, too? (But no light eyes, hmmmmm .........( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 06:58, 21 February 2011 (UTC))
... anyone know what Pearl+dun does in combination on a bay base? ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 07:03, 21 February 2011 (UTC))
Your mottled grullo - dun on 'fading black' ????? ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 07:08, 21 February 2011 (UTC))
... and if you want a really kewl colour, check out here: http://www.flyinfoxranch.com/ for Sierra Hesa Chief - champagne, cream and dun dilutions combined on a brown base! ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 07:12, 21 February 2011 (UTC))
What gets me (get this!) is that in our New Forest registry, palomino stallions are not permitted (trying to eradicate cream), but buckskin stallions are just fine and dandy! Coz the guys over here call 'em dun. Now is that totally illogical thinking or what? ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 23:12, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
I literally almost pmsl when I read about the Zombie Elk which apparently lived (and lived again, and again, and again....) in Prehistoric Britain. Why, oh why, do we not have suitable emoticons here in WikiLand? ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 14:59, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
... and after discussion with Chzz, I have now created The Unoffical WikiZoo as a sanctuary for similar strange fauna. So if you come across any in your travels, please donate them to the Zoo! ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 11:09, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
Do you have a PMID for the "The origin of British horses. SPEED, J. G.; ETHERINGTON, M. G.; St Georg, Die Herkunft der britischen Pferde., 1953?, 54, 1, 4-7," or any alternative which has the "It is suggested that the original native horse of Britain in prehistoric times was a representative of the " Universal Pony, " which is said to have migrated from North America, and that the Exmoor Pony is a descendant of the type which existed in Britain ca. 100, 000 B. C." quote? Ta! ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 09:17, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
Unfortunately, I sent you all I got from the source, it was a subscription database called CAB direct, one of the ones the college gets, and I couldn't find the articles in any of the others, i.e. cience Direct, Wiley, etc.... you might drop a message to User:Sasata, who has sometimes been able to dig up scientific stuff for us at WPEQ. Tell Sasata a friend of Dana's sent you. Montanabw (talk) 21:08, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
Here's the cite exactly as it was downloaded to me. No PMID, unfortunately. The origin of British horses. SPEED, J. G.; ETHERINGTON, M. G.; St Georg, Die Herkunft der britischen Pferde., 1953?, 54, 1, 4-7, http://www.cabdirect.org/abstracts/19530101093.html It is suggested that the original native horse of Britain in prehistoric times was a representative of the " Universal Pony, " which is said to have migrated from North America, and that the Exmoor Pony is a descendant of the type which existed in Britain ca. 100, 000 B. C. The Fell Pony is thought to be derived from a northern pony of a later date (ca. 60, 000 B. C. ] which migrated to Britain along a more northerly route. Foreign types introduced into Britain in historic times are said to have had a detrimental influence on the native horse, and a plea is put forward for the preservation of the original pony breeds still in existence. The Exmoor Pony is described. The article is illustrated by several photographs. G. E. A. N.
...for assessing the first article I've written (although I hope to pitch in with more, and have been collecting sources). Is it very difficult to acquire pictures for new breed infoboxes? There doesn't seem to be much on Commons for breeds without existing articles; some websites have nice pictures, but I can't get my head around Wikipedia's fair-use explanations yet. Anyway, thanks again. Wi2g 23:54, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
I have posed some knotty questions for KimvdLinde, on her talk page. Take a wander over there and we'll see if, between us all, we can find something 'definitive' on ancientness on them. ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 12:41, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
Take a peek at the Exie-sandbox for me, please? ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 12:28, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
(cross-pasted from the Exie Sandbox - just in case you don't see it there first)
HERE's the marked-up image part of the 2002-study phylogenetic network. Note: the 2010 made no other changes to this section of the network, other than (importantly!) to re-name these B-clusters/nodes as I-clusters/nodes. And the 2002 C-clusters were renamed as B-clusters. I could seriously shake those 2010 people warmly by the throat for having done something so completely unnecessary and frustratingly confusing! ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 11:45, 2 March 2011 (UTC) (I have also copied across to Kim) ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 12:37, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
Thanks very much for all the good advice; I'll be referring to it a lot, since I'd like to pitch in with a couple more articles. Boy, it's hard to find RS for the obscure maybe-they're-breeds (although editors with Chinese or Russian fluency, say, may have access to more domestic sources for those breeds) but I read in the paper today that Google is shaking up its search-engine algorithms to return less eHow-type junk. Thanks for the tip on images too. BTW, do you know who is most active in the Thoroughbred-racing project? Wi2g 16:06, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
My Wolfcub has been suggested for deletion! How do we save it! (Comment is "This WikiFauna is redundant to the WikiPuppy. Even its userboxes are copied from the WikiPuppy's. If the creator wants, maybe we should userfy it for him since he seems to identify himself as a WikiWolfCub. ")
A WikiPuppy does not go and do the amount (or type) of stuff that I do - we are not the same thing! (Whine, whine ........) ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 04:46, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
Haha! I made the userbox into a non-clone, lol! Pretty aqua-green now :o) Think that'll do the trick? I have to say, I think the deletion request came across as a bit s- bite-ful ..... [hackles up?] ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 10:48, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
I think the Reaper was genuinely mistaken; closed discussion anyway and made quite nice comment on my talk page (and sorta admitted biteyness) so I awarded him/her a Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar for tacitly admitting guilt and making reparation. ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 21:28, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
Hello. First of all I would like to apologize for my very bad English. ^^ So, I'm contributing on the french Wikipedia and I work more particularly on the horses' and donkeys' races. I would soon like to create an article on the American Mammoth Jackstock and I see that it doesn't exist in any language, even in english. I don't find either a photo on commons. I found nice photos on flickr, but the licenses aren't adapted. I'm sorry to disturb you but, in view of your knowledge on the equestrian world, I thought you could have perhaps the possibility of getting one or several photos of this donkey. It would be so useful for me. Thank you very much in advance for your answer. -- Eponimm ( talk) 20:07, 3 March 2011 (UTC) -- Eponimm
1) "A Note on some British Late Pleistocene Remains of Horse R Burleigh, A Currant, E Jacobi", and "The skull of a Neolithic horse from Grime's Graves, Norfolk, England J Clutton-Brock" both from - Equids in the ancient world, 1991 - Reichert 2) Full text of this thing?
AND ......
3) Transactions of the Bristol and Gloucestershire Archaeological Society, Three Neolithic axes from the Severn Estuary by J. R. L. Allen 1990, V ol. 108, 171-174 … in which it says (and bugger, I can't paste it coz I'm looking at a bloody image for crying out loud, which is why I want proper web access) "In the vicinity of the finds, at Oldbury Flats and at Hill Flats, [… blah, blah] The overlying estuarial effluvium … consists of green estuarine silts, with the footprints of cattle, deer and horse. These peats … can be correlated to … lower Severn Estuary and Somerset levels, with ages ranging between about 6000 and 2500 conventional radiocarbon years. "
4) (Wiley) HEDGES, R., SAVILLE, A. and O’CONNELL, T. (2008), CHARACTERIZING THE DIET OF INDIVIDUALS AT THE NEOLITHIC CHAMBERED TOMB OF HAZLETON NORTH, GLOUCESTERSHIRE, ENGLAND, USING STABLE ISOTOPIC ANALYSIS. Archaeometry, 50: 114–128. doi: 10.1111/j.1475-4754.2007.00379.x (mentions horse remains / horse dung in that place) . Sorry about the caps, it was how it was on the page! ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 14:02, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
I tried Google books, scholar, all sorts! The only abstracts I could find were completely unhelpful, so the horsey stuff is buried deep in the text somewhere. I am very fast at whizzing through texts, though, so if and when you can get them I will go through everything and drag out everything relevant. ~~
Horse bones circa 3500 BC in southern England :o) See Exmoor pony talk page. Fills the post-ice-age gap quite a bit (about half way, in fact.) ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 09:27, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
... and some Holocene horse remains, and a 1500 BC Aurochs in Devon just north of Exmoor, in a site which is rapidly being washed into the sea - who knows what has already been washed away there? (Some miles downstream of the prehistoric hoof prints) ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 06:55, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
http://www.atlantisquest.com/Paleontology.html
Thought you might be interested in this one - loads of animals died very suddenly at the relevant time, and clearly not by the hand of man. (unless we had developed a really, really early atomic weapon :o) ) ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 10:03, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
Is here :o) ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 13:00, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
Cub did good - check out the Ice Age Map :o) You like? ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 15:57, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
I got so fed up with how long it was taking to try and find a free-use image, that I found this one in one of the sites I wandered around, and derived from there. It was just a much faster way of doing it! So I blew up the relevant section really big, faded it right down to almost nothing, and traced over the outlines before re-filling and labelling. The outline of 'modern Britain and Ireland' can just about be faintly seen under the ice, and the rest of the modern area is coloured a bit darker green than the bit that's now under the sea - my intention was to make it kinda clear, but not obtrusively so. I think it's quite cute that you can still see the crayon lines from my colouring, lol! How/where do I edit the bit to show where the map was derived from? I can easily knock up a horse outline drawing for you if you want, no probs. ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 07:41, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
Hi Montana - You may have already seen this, but Thoroughbred is going on the mainpage tomorrow (the 10th). Just FYI, as it's a big article and could get a lot of hits. Dana boomer ( talk) 17:12, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
As to your request on my page, if you are an admin you could edit it yourself: I'm not sure whether this is considered good etiquette though. I'm not sure whether it matters whether you edit
this version or
this one. Otherwise post a request at WP:ERRORS: Floquenbeam has promissed to be back there at midnight. I believe that there is a system for warning contributors of a forthcoming TFA
e.g. this, but I've no idea what the mechanism for identifying the recipient is.
Kevin McE (
talk)
22:01, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
Xx236 ( talk) 09:45, 3 March 2011 (UTC) Wieprz is village in Gmina Radziechowy-Wieprz. The history (in Polish) says:
Powstanie stadniny w Nowym Dworze w Wieprzu. Jej kierownikiem został Józef Gozdawa-Tyszkowski (Organization of the stud in Wieprz, the boss was Józef Gozdawa-Tyszkowski)
Xx236 ( talk) 08:46, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
Name this breed! (No prizes awarded, btw :o) ) ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 22:24, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
Saw this and have to point out my number would be 386. (ducks and runs). Ealdgyth - Talk 23:51, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
There has been a major revision of the the
Service Awards: the edit requirements for the higher levels have been greatly reduced, to make them reasonably attainable.
Because of this, your Service Award level has been changed, and you are now eligible for a higher level. I have taken the liberty of updating your award on your user page.
Herostratus ( talk) 20:52, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
Actually, the main star at the top of your userpage was up to date; the little userbox down at the bottom lagged this, I upgraded this to Most Pluperfect Labutnum. But... according to this you're eligible for another advance in six days, to Senior Editor III (or Labutnum of the Encyclopedia) anyway. Congratulations, and thank you for your many contributions to the Wikipedia! Herostratus ( talk) 20:52, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
Hmmm, I moved Asturcon to Asturcón, nitpicking being my speciality as you know. Turns out most of the article is lifted verbatim from [9]. So I tagged it, but am now wondering if that won't just make more mess than was necessary. What's done is done, I'm afraid. I suggest deleting the Astrurian redirect (that's going to be the title of Robert Ludlum's next novel), which should be easy but idk how to do. And adding the page to the list of pages that need stuff done about them ... Justlettersandnumbers ( talk) 20:28, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
You did say you could help, lol! (And that'll teach you to make rash promises .......)
Can you do the nomination thing for the History of horse article? Pretty please?
Pesky (
talk)
10:54, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
That's if I haven't sussed out how to do it myself by the time you read this ...... Pesky ( talk) 11:56, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
OK, so that was a whole heap easier than I expected it to be, lol! Pesky ( talk) 12:00, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
Coat colour is NOT my strongest suit, to put it mildly. So a couple of questions: (1) the Bardigiano standard allows for it to be anything from ordinary bay to 'morello maltinto', badly-coloured black. This is black with reddish highlights, but ... what on earth is it called in English? Is black bay correct? (2) a previous editor had put in seal brown; that is not mentioned in the standard and was apparently unreferenced, so I have for now removed it, but I'm not 100% confident that I was right do do so. What were seal brown horses called before they were called seal brown? Would you be kind enough to look at the article and comment? Also, I can't think of an English word for 'rabicanature'; rabicanations? I don't think so. Justlettersandnumbers ( talk) 22:26, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
Answers all around and thanks all for weighing in! First off, we had another editor with a degree in genetics do a TON of really good work on the genetics stuff at several of the coat color articles, so I always recommend reading them. Both bay (horse) and seal brown (horse) are decent articles. What little anyone really knows on sooty is at sooty (gene). "Mealy" IS pangare, but is not the same thing that makes a seal brown a seal brown. And yes, I suspect "Rabicanature" is rabicano (Which I think is actually a Spanish term) (we have some photos there that are pretty good of chestnuts, not so good on bays), but show a photo and I suspect we could tell you if it's actually a roan (horse), they are quite distinct. As for US and UK English, even within each nation there are disagreements, often regional ("mouse dun" "blue dun" and " grulla" are all argued over just in the USA, and some people don't understand that a "lineback dun" is a repetitious term) so it's probably best to stick to the most standard terms possible, and if you have to use some odd ones (see Fjord horse for some REALLY odd ones), then explain them. Montanabw (talk) 23:57, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
Second, a lot of those Bardigiano photos in commons look body-clipped me, and as many bay horses have something of a two-toned hair shaft, it's a pain to know what they "really" are. You will not go wrong just saying "bay." The bright red ones are sometimes called "classic" bay or "blood bay", but just "bay" implies that classic form, IMHO. On the darker animals, dark bay" is safe and generic enough that you may avoid useless "is it brown or is it sooty" spats. At one time you sometimes heard the term "Mahogany Bay" but I think it's gone completely out of style. (My rant about the term "black bay" is below) On the commons photos, I don't see the light areas around the muzzle, flanks and eyes that are typical of seal brown, except for this guy who has it at the flanks but not the muzzle, so even he is iffy. The photo you have linked, absent genetic testing to prove things one way or the other, could be a slightly bleached-out black, or a very dark bay. I don't see seal brown genetics there, nor any pangare. Until they locate the genetic mechanism and can test for sooty, "dark bay" is probably the more correct and least argument-inducing term unless you have a really obvious seal brown. Montanabw (talk) 23:57, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
Third, the underlying genetics start out the same for all bays/"brown" horses, they all carry at least one E allele and one A allele. (Hence, EeAa, EEAA, EeAA or EEAa) So they have a "black" base coat (as opposed to the recessive "red" -- chestnut-- base coat) with the Agouti gene suppressing black into just point coloration, allowing the underlying red base color to show through. To get Seal Brown, there is a variant A allele (At) that they can now do a DNA test for, but the seal brown is still genetically a "Bay" first. Sooty appears to be a totally different genetic mechanism that affects many different coat colors and also darkens coats independently of whatever is going on with agouti. And not yet testable. Montanabw (talk) 23:57, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
As an aside (putting on ranting hat) I LOATHE the term "black bay" because I'm old enough to remember when it got popular with Arabian breeders during the 70s and 80s to try and convince n00bs that their horses were "almost black" and so sell them for more money. It's a PR term. But I also think it sounds equally dumb (as well as often incorrect) to call all bay horses "brown" because "brown" just sounds so boring when a nice bay shade is such a lovely color -- at least unless there is genetic testing to prove we have a "seal brown" -- and TPC, I don't like that term either, it's actually relatively new in much of the USA too. Montanabw (talk) 23:57, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
A big thank you for these and to all who chipped in here, I've learnt something. I think I have found the answer I need, in the Simon & Schuster/Bongianni horse book, which it turns out is a translation of an Italian publication, and can be peeked inside on amazon. He gives "dull black" for black (slightly reddish); does this bring back any unpleasant childhood memories for anyone, or can I use it? Oh, and no way is the pic I posted of a Bardigiano! - but maybe that was just a bit of fun? Justlettersandnumbers ( talk) 20:43, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
I know he's not a dun, but you try telling that to the breed society! Trouble is, they want to have duns, so they call all the buckskins duns. We seem to have lost the true dun from the NF breed altogether (or at least certainly in the Forest area, and in every other pic of every other Forester anywhere else in the world that I've seen), but I just don't seem to be able to get the message across (real life version of IDONTHEARTHAT). He's (almost certainly him, anyway, as no other contenders in the picture ....) sired a double dilute, (so he has cream himself). No way are his owners going to pay for any testing! No benefit to them in doing so. Definitely doesn't look smoky black once you've seen him through all his various coat variations - sometimes very clearly a sooty buckskin (obvious buckskin overlain by obvious sooty top-mantling and / or dapples). And he's a gorgeous boy, too :o) Pesky ( talk) 11:51, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
<outdent> Not many gadzillionaires owning NF ponies over here, lol! Pesky ( talk) 07:35, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
Go cast a vote, lol! Drag a few friends along. Pesky ( talk) 16:55, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
BW, I have been spending a lot of time on the 4th floor of the MSU library with my campsus ambassador duties. Today, while killing a few minutes in the stacks, I stumbled on the run of Appaloosa News and Appaloosa Journal from 1963-1993. If you ever need me to look up something re the spotted horses, let me know. BTW, thanks for trashing the Bozeman trivia. Quite tedious it is. -- Mike Cline ( talk) 22:26, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
See here :o) Pesky ( talk) 21:04, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
Encouraged by the discussion page of Camargue (horse), I tried my hand on manades and made a trial version for a separate article on it. If you are still interedsted in the subject, please see if you can agree on my text. You'll find it in the only Sandbox on my Userpage. Paj ( talk) 21:24, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
Was that a helpful tone at Talk:Welsh Pony and Cob#Draught?? Richard New Forest ( talk) 08:43, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
OK, so you've toned down the snark at Menorquín horse, and it may have needed it. The trouble with that is that you have introduced a false statement that was not previously there. It is not in Spain that the two breeds are considered separate, but all over the world, the FAO being a completely authoritative and worldwide source; would you be kind enough to revert, and perhaps start a discussion there on how to phrase it better?
I'm sorry to repeat myself, but have to ask you again, would you please discuss before making edits to material that you know I have written, especially if you know that I have only just written it; and also refrain from unhiding poor material that you know I have not written? Since there has been an intervening edit, I have NO IDEA how to recover my previous version of Mérens, where I had intentionally hidden a load of garbage from a totally unreliable source that was wholly, diametrically at variance with what is in the breed standard (which I'd just put there for everyone to read anyway). I'm spending more time trying to pick up the pieces than getting anything done. I repeat, I do think about what I am doing while I am doing it. I make a lot of mistakes, I know, and I am always happy to know where they are. But it's a total waste of everybody's time if I have to keep running around putting things back. You are managing to step on my heels and my toes at the same time, and it is really seriously counter-productive. Please note that I do not charge around changing everything you've done the minute you've done it (well, OK, I did fix the incorrect redirect from Balearic horse right after you made it, but that was a one-off).
On the poor material thing, we obviously have widely different views. Yours, if I've understood correctly, and forgive me if I haven't, is 'keep it till something better comes along'; mine is 'bin it'. So we'd be at a sort of impasse if it wasn't for a chappie called Wales, who made it all very clear here: "Zero information is preferred to misleading or false information" (I've toned down the font size a bit from the original!) So could we please agree that for, say, a month or so, you will not unhide stuff I have hidden on the pages of the indigenous breeds of Europe or the traditional sports and riding styles associated with them, and I will not hide stuff on any of the other pages, however unsourced, biased and inappropriate I think it? And that we will discuss BEFORE, not after, messing with what the other has done? And then, after that month, review?
I also want to apologise for moving Balearic horse without checking with you first – the history showed clearly that you had recently moved it, but I saw it only after the dirty deed was done. That was impolite of me, I'm sorry. I hope you are satisfied with the result?
Justlettersandnumbers (
talk)
23:37, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
First:What a friendly page you have here. Makes me remember living in Kentucky, Louisville, and how honestly friendly everyone was. I investigated and.....You are absolutely correct! In fact there is one yachting event that requires at least one female on each team. I will contact my source, the Chicago Field Museum Members Magazine. Maybe I can get a personal interview with one of the mummies. TRA! Buster Seven Talk 20:02, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
Hi Montanabw/Archive 6. I have now moved the RfA reform and its associated pages to project space. The main page has been updated and streamlined. We now also have a new table on voter profiles. Please take a moment to check in and keep the pages on your watchlist. Regards, Kudpung กุดผึ้ง ( talk) 08:07, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
I've followed your work a lot and I'm not so convinced that you would fail an RfA. You'd need some guts to step into the snake pit though. Take my RfA as a very good example. You are well known and respected, and your supporters could well outweigh the opposition, even if it were at the last minute. The clue is to get very strong nom and co-nom. -- Kudpung กุดผึ้ง ( talk) 05:15, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
I know you are upset about various issues, but making snarky edit summaries like the one you made when this page was created is unhelpful, I think. (Tagging a category talk page with a wikiproject banner upon creation of the category is not mandatory; nor is it even recommended in the guidelines for creating categories. You may do tagging as you wish, but please don't suggest it is the responsibility of the category creator.) Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:55, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
Mission: to make the Finnhorse sound less amazing! Our darling GAN reviewer says: "I don't see any clear description of what Finnhorses are not suited for. :D Pitke ( talk) 12:59, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
I think you've answered that pretty well. (btw, I found Dcoetzee on IRC, looking for something constructive to do .... so I pointed him in the direction of Finnhorse). He says he is kinda a horsey person himself. Maybe we can sell him a Finnhorse, lol?! Pesky ( talk) 08:17, 18 April 2011 (UTC) Adding: is it possible for an article to be put up for GA and skip straight to FA? :o) Pesky ( talk) 08:23, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
I was asking, bearing in mind the reviewer's first comment ....... I meant, is it possible for a GA reviewer to decide that the article warrants an FA flag instead .... :o) Pesky ( talk) 16:00, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
Kudpung has asked me to 'nudge' some people .. as I'm an idle get, I'm just going through the entire Task Force list so my apologies if you didn't need a nudge! You can slap me about over on WP:EfD if you like :o) Straw polling various options: over here - please add views, agree with views, all that usual stuff. Pesky ( talk) 12:44, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
Hi, and thanks for the consideration. I do suspect that the Calgary Stampede article has the potential to face such edits - especially if I get it featured in time to appear on the main page for next year's centennial, but for the most part, the PETA types have left the article alone thus far. Certainly, if you have material to expand the Rodeo and Animal Welfare sections especially, I would love the help - I'll probably try to finish re-writing the animal welfare section today or tomorrow based on what I have atm. As far as Animal treatment in rodeo goes, I'm not sure I would even wish to touch that article. At a quick glance, I think the best bet would be to do a complete dump and rewrite of it, probably focusing on the events and intermixing the pro and con arguments throughout. Cheers, Reso lute 23:31, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
Hi. :) Per your request, I just wanted to let you know that a horse related article passed through CP today. The content has already been removed, but if you wanted to see the text for reconstruction it's all still visible at [11]. The article is Knabstrupper. -- Moonriddengirl (talk) 16:18, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
Um, these two are the two that have the longest recorded breeing histories, AND have influenced an insane number of horse breeds, making them appear in almost any given article about a modern horse breed. Both also have huge numbers of animals all over the world. How come they're not to be "high"/"top"? Pitke ( talk) 16:05, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
Let's take the individual assessments to the talk pages of the respective articles and discuss on a case-by-case basis. Overall, IMHO you are over-assessing articles when compared to other en.wiki projects. I do agree that the upgrade to mid on the color articles is probably wise, as all horses have a color. Upgrading some of the main equipment articles may also be in order because most horses use a saddle or harness, a bridle and have a halter. Health stuff affecting all horses probably qualifies for upgrades to (worming, laminitis, colic, etc...) But as you can see here, breed importance is hotly debated and best kept a bit low key. Montanabw (talk) 17:25, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
I think this is something that should be done for every relevant WikiProject for every relevant page.
I think that the relevant templates need to be added to each and every horse-related article, including all of the horse breed articles
I did propose that a bot be made to automatically add portals to pages awhile ago, but the proposal went nowhere WhisperToMe ( talk) 00:33, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
Some of your images or media files have been listed for deletion. Please see Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2011 April 27 if you are interested in preserving them.
Thank you.
To say "Hi" :o) Pesky ( talk) 07:04, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
Ponies that have spent their early years out on the Forest are so much better emotionally balanced - knowing how to be part of a herd, knowing where the 'boundaies' are in terms of acceptable behaviour (with other horses, at least!); used to the traffic, used tolooking after themselves, knowing what's actually worthy of being spooked at, and what's no problem. They have a good life out there. :o) Pesky ( talk) 18:17, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
Chzz (on IRC) has just pointed out that you probably need to use the Template:copied thing on the talk pages of the various Varian articles, even though you basically wrote most of them, just to avoid anyone (who cba to check out authorship on the others) shouting copyvio etc. at you! Pesky ( talk) 07:01, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Fabulous o_o Pitke ( talk) 18:34, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
Yay!!! We finally got Appaloosa to FA! It only took us...three years, I think :)
So, what should we work on next? Horse, or maybe Arabian horse? Or something a bit different - Gelding or Saddle? Ealdgyth, I'm asking you too - it's just easier to post on one page instead of both :) Dana boomer ( talk) 19:01, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
I had a quick canter through the Arabian article and tweaked it here and there, mainly just concentrating for the moment on reducing choppiness and increasing fluidity of prose. Will come back to it again to look for more things; meanwhile I may do the same with Horse soon(ish). Pesky ( talk … stalk!) 12:06, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
I have a number of books on Canada and there is nothing that would even hint that Hudson's Bay people were this far from the Bay in 1743. The Verendrye brothers, who were from French Canada and competing with HBC, definitely saw either the Big Horns or Black Hills in 1743 and no other Europeans seem to have been in the area until Lewis and Clark in 1804-05. 1743 can only be Verendreye. There is nothing in the Verendrye journals that would prove that the Horse People or Bow People were Crow, all tribal assignments being guesses. As for Rhonda Massingham, Amazon.com search shows she seems to be a popular gardining writer who wrote text for a book of photographs - not a reliable source. I would be inclined to say that in '1743 explorers from Canada found the natives of the area in possession of many horses'. Benjamin Trovato ( talk) 12:23, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
Hopefully my latest here will suffice as a reliable source ... lol! Pesky ( talk … stalk!) 07:29, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
Following that "discussion" on the whole hands thing I can see why folks don't contribute here. Sad... Intothatdarkness ( talk) 18:26, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
Hi. I stumbled across Dan Bailey today and did some format improvements to it. Then I found Flathead Indian Reservation and it's in need of major work (check the last version before today when I started on it). Then I checked out the WikiProject Montana page and saw you listed as a member and willing to help and answer questions. I was wondering if you're interested in helping with the Flathead article. PumpkinSky talk 13:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
Yes I am EXTREMELY opposed to posting someone's paper as the Animal Assisted Therapy article. It represents a particular point of view which is not in line with Wikipedia standards. I intend to delete it again, if it is not rewritten to be more objective. The Dogfather ( talk) 13:20, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
Could you find coordinates for Soldiers Chapel? -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 08:18, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
I'm not good at doing that properly, but they would be the same as Big Sky, Montana, the resort community. Montanabw (talk) 16:07, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
I just caught sight of you on my talk page :D
My beautiful boa now has a starring role in Boa constrictor; see full-res vid here. Ain't she fast?! We need someone with a high-frame-rate camera now, to get a really good slow-mo vid of the strike.
Ponies send their love. Pesky ( talk … stalk!) 19:25, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
While working on List of people from Montana, I came across Mary Clearman Blew, a writer, and she needs an article so I can include her in the list. Google reveals some good sources. PumpkinSky talk 23:27, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
Montana#Indian_reservations has an error in the image. It says "Rocky's Boys" but should be "Rocky Boys". PumpkinSky talk 00:08, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Confident Saddleseat rider.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Possibly unfree files because its copyright status is unclear or disputed. If the file's copyright status cannot be verified, it may be deleted. You may find more information on the file description page. You are welcome to add comments to its entry at the discussion if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. — innotata 22:23, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
You wrote:
"Your insults
"Restoring previous formatting, removed by editor Montanabw, who has been asked on at least three previous occasions not to edit the talk-page contributions of others" This is bull. Only this one particular time have I EVER deliberately changed something you wrote, and here it was only formatting, not content. You have had some other talk page comments get scrambled up due to anything from edit conflicts to computer gremlins to vandals, but I personally have NEVER deliberately changed anything you have written (I've never changed what ANYONE has written!!!) and am very insulted that you think I have. I tried to explain myself previously to you about this, as well. I have really had it with your sheer meanness and constant insults. Maybe you have no idea how obnoxious and flat out cruel you sound online, but let me just say that I have had it with your attitude. Contribute on the issue, stick to the issue, argue the issue as much as you want, but can the insults. Oh, and how about writing some more actual content instead of criticizing everyone else's? It would be nice for you to be part of the solution instead of part of the problem of wikipedia's incivility. Montanabw(talk) 16:36, 10 August 2011 (UTC)"
Based on your suggestion, I looked at sources for this artist. I only find two decent refs: [16] and [17]. Do you know of more? I can't even find a year of birth, though it looks late 40s-early 50s. Right now I'm not sure how good the article would be. PumpkinSky talk 21:19, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
By the way, did you get to check out my article on the Schlechten bros?? Montanabw (talk) 22:14, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
Full disclosure: I have about five Dolak prints hanging around. So I can easily take an image of his artwork, but I think there is a problem with copyright on photos of works of a living artist. If you guys sort out THAT problem, I can provide actual images of some of his favs (including "Montana History Lesson" which I have as a signed print -- BEFORE they used it as the textbook cover too! ) Montanabw (talk) 22:30, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
It was recently suggested that WikiProject Montana might be inactive or semiactive and it might be beneficial to include it in the list of projects supported by WikiProject United States. I have started a discussion on the projects talk page soliciting the opinions of the members of the project if this project would be interested in being supported by WikiProject United States. Please feel free to comment on your opinions about this suggestion. -- Kumioko ( talk) 01:51, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
Hi! I'm the guy who called you names on my talk page several weeks ago. I actually stopped editing for a day or so because of the interaction. I disagreed with you not only on the merits, but because of what I saw as owney and bitey behaviors. I could have stayed in the talkpage discussion but I disconnected because of my rising anger at what I saw. I still read the discussion that way, but I'm not here to prolong that. So I wanted to say I'm sorry for getting too hot. I was wrong to take it up a notch. I made a misjudgement in using usernames. It was a lesson learned, and I'll not repeat that mistake again. Then I foolishly kept it up instead of focusing on the pagespace. Thank goodness for MONGO. That he showed us both equal respect in interjecting forced me to stop. (MONGO is one of my wikiheroes.) So I took a break and went back to helping newbies, which is an interesting hobby of mine. I deal with a bunch of newbs so I'm very sensitive to behaviors like the ones I described above. Anyway. I'm sorry. I was wrong in many ways. I hope you can let this bridge under the water, be merely water under the bridge, to use Ealdgyth's phrase. I'd like to join the discussion at Talk:Horses in warfare, but I wanted to visit you here first. It seemed the right thing to do. BusterD ( talk) 23:25, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for your latest edits with the new sections. That makes a lot more sense. :) Steven Walling • talk 18:55, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
I've begun working on a review for Warlander at DYK. Given your having already given this article a "once over," and with your experience in equine matters, it would be great if you could chime in on the reliability of source, etc., and in general whether you think the article is fit to be featured on the Main Page as part of DYK. The discussion template for this article is at Template:Did you know nominations/Warlander. Thanks. Cbl62 ( talk) 23:58, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
BusterD has given you
kittens! Kittens promote
WikiLove and hopefully these have made your day better. Kittens must be fed three times a day and will be your faithful companion forever! Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a kitten, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend.
Spread the goodness of kittens by adding {{ subst:Kitten}} to someone's talk page with a friendly message, or kittynap their kitten with {{ subst:Kittynap}}
BusterD ( talk) 09:31, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for your editorial assistance
This user helped promote Shackleford (horse) to good article status. |
-- TonyTheTiger ( T/ C/ BIO/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:FOUR) 20:10, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
Here's my newest one, an old translation of my fi Promising Article, Complex Vertebral Malformation. I DYKNOM'd it, care to take a look and see if my hook's alright? It's a genetic disorder, that's a hard topic for catchy hooks :/ Pitke ( talk) 17:30, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
What further cleanup does the article Kisber Felver need? There is nothing on the talk page about what needs further work. RJFJR ( talk) 19:31, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
- purebred Arabian rabicano. Ealdgyth - Talk 23:46, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
Ok, thanks ! Hippophagy is currently a delicate debate, there are events for its abolition throughout the country, as I suppose the end of the slaughtering of horses in the U.S. ? That's why we have found lots of sources easily about this subject. Even English speakers say it is a Franco-French debate, for exemple Alan D. Krinsky, Let them eat horsemeat ! : science, philanthropy, state, and the search for complete nutrition in nineteenth-century France, University of Wisconsin-Madison, 2001, 337 p., and Kari Weil, « They Eat Horses, Don't They ? Hippophagy and Frenchness », in Gastronomica, vol. 7, no 2, 2007, p. 44-51. So perhaps we can have Hippophagy, horse slaughter and horse meat article ? For the POV time, I've work this article because the food industrie spread a big lie, that French draft horses survive only because of meat, so "if you want to save draft horse, eat them", they say on T.V. (u__u) *remains quiet, Tsaag, remains quiet* Except that in France the production is well below consumption, which means that horses people eat are not the french ones (supporting evidence), but from Canada, Mexico and Poland ... people have a right to know where come from this meat. Oh, another thing with more fun, i think the galloping horse in your talk page is very-very cartoonesque, so... that's all folks ! -- Tsaag Valren ( talk) 17:05, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
You raise an interesting question, Pitke. We people in western civilization don't deal very well with death in any form, do we? We may consign animals to a horrible fate just because we cannot stomach the reality of taking personal responsibility. (I call it the "I don't want to watch Blackie die, so I'll send him to the auction sale and pretend he's going to find a forever home with some nice lady who wants to take care of my old, lame horse" phenomenon.) Of course, it takes a lot of land for a horse graveyard, (though you may be right that some people would pay for this) though where land is plentiful, people CAN pay a guy with a backhoe about $60-$70 an hour to dig a big hole on their own property, and having a disposal company haul away a euthanized large animal carcass to who-knows-where is sometimes about the same cost. A few people are in places where they can donate meat to a zoo, if the animal is dispatched with a bullet or capture bolt rather than with drugs. The problem is in areas, such as the east and west coasts, where land is expensive and animals in landfills are frowned upon. I had a friend on the east coast (Maryland) who was very conflicted about slaughter because euthanization and proper disposal of her horse would run her $1200.00!!! In contrast, she could sent it to the sale yard and maybe earn $500 or so. I had to admit that I could not judge her or make that decision for her, as I live where land is cheap and I can humanely euthanize and properly dispose of a horse for about $250.00 total (and be there when it happens). Now, as for you, the notion of small scale on-site animal rendering for cattle and other animals happens to be a small niche market in the USA, mostly amongst organic meat producers and those who otherwise want to guarantee that their meat animals are dispatched in a humane manner that they can oversee, yet still have saleable meat. People might have an interest in something like that. The one-way trip to Eastern Europe is precisely akin to the biggest problem with horse slaughter in the USA. (start with that human denial and refusal to take personal responsibiliy thing) Even when the US plants were open, for many years, they only existed in Texas and Illinois, with horses shipped cross-country (often in double-decker cattle trucks without adequate food or water) over long distances. (In Montana, the closest plant is the one in Calgary, Alberta anyway, so MT horses have been shipped to Canada for slaughter for a long time.) We also have issues with the "less than pleasant" conditions where horses are slaughtered, as nearly all facilities are geared toward cattle and the horses are only run through on certain days, via equipment, again, designed for cattle. Pretty ugly, and often not very humane. But then, it isn't fun and games for cows, either, I guess. This thing of humans being carnivores (or at least omnivores) is an interesting moral question when you realize that meat doesn't hatch on a styrofoam tray in the grocery store! Montanabw (talk) 20:34, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
Any comments to the comments by VioletRiga at Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of athletes from Montana/archive1? PumpkinSky talk 20:41, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello fellow Montanan,
I noticed that you had made the last edit on the article listed in the subject line. However I found the article severely incomplete given the fact that their is on Highway 93 as you venture into BC the Tobacco Plains Band of the Ktunaxa Nation. It seems to reason, that those details were completely ignored in this article and since I am unable to edit them as I do not want to learn the markup, I thought instead to contact you. You may also see more information via this reference. http://www.tobaccoplains.org/aboutus.html.
Kindly, Infinite Grid Infinitegrid ( talk) 19:40, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
...one of the suggestions in GAR for Finnhorse was to include info on sire lines. I've been drafting away in my sandbox, and the Lohdutus section is about finished. Care to take a quick look? Pitke ( talk) 20:05, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi, Why the revert? Eddaido ( talk) 00:01, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Its done: Scratchgravel Hills. Next time your heading this way lets plan to meet up somewhere for coffee or something. Just needs a little leadtime to ensure I am in town. Just got from Pittsburgh last night.-- Mike Cline ( talk) 15:28, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
Meet the first " yellow roan" (or however the terminology goes) Finnhorse, miss Kadelma Kuu f. 2.6.2011. Now, excuse me while I dance. Pitke ( talk) 14:25, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
Why do you say it will be awhile? Are none of the roans eligible to be registered, or have they simply not yet passed the performance testing? Roan, being a dominant trait (like gray) will keep increasing faster in the population than would a more recessive condition(?). It will be interesting to see what develops. Montanabw (talk) 20:12, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
New article on ceramics prof at MSU-Bozeman, if you care to help. PumpkinSky talk 17:15, 15 October 2011 (UTC)
Ok, you said you'd help find me material to work on. What needs help? TaylorLane bore me 01:33, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
Just in case you didn't see them on my talk page, Rocket's second-lesson videos are uploaded! Bearing in mind that (a) this was only his second lesson, and (b) this is the baby who fractured my skull when he was an even smaller baby, we're soooooo pleased with him! One very, very smart li'l guy :D. And OK, yeah, good-looking too! (Adding: COI? POV-pushing? Never heard of it!)
Pesky ( talk … stalk!) 05:47, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
... for you and the stalkers :D
OCD | This user appreciates the huge benefits of having OCD |
my new essay. Pesky ( talk … stalk!) 13:12, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
I reverted the changes back into place... Hope you don't mind. There was a general agreement that the section was a little too big in the discussion I started at NPOV/N. Slatersteven was acting in concert with that. Cheers! Reso lute 23:42, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
Hi there... I just wanted to mention that I've added several images to the fiador knot article, one of which (shown right) might also be useful in the fiador (tack) article. The knots shown are based on diagrams found in Bruce Grant's 1972 Encyclopedia of Rawhide and Leather Braiding. Please also take a look at the changes I made to the description of how the knot is used -- the article originally read that it's the fiador knot itself that goes around the heel knot, but this seems incorrect (and not likely to work in any case.) Feel free to fix and/or let me know about anything that looks off.
BTW, I noticed that in the book mentioned above the bottle sling (aka Hackamore knot) is actually partially threaded through the bosal and heel knot, rather than just being around it. I left this detail out for now, but I wondered if this is just an idiosyncratic way that Bruce Grant shows it, or whether it's actually the correct/preferred way. I've been working on the bottle sling article today also, and may want to mention something about the threading method in there if it's actually the widespread/proper use of the knot when attaching to a bosal. If you don't know what I'm talking about I can provide more detail... -- Dfred ( talk) 23:28, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
Dear Montanabw: You have some incorrect information in this article which I have been trying to correct, and you keep deleting it. In the article you say that Abbas I Pasha's (1812-1854) eighteen-year old son who inherited his horses was Ibrahim Pasha of Egypt (1789- Nov. 10, 1848) - obviously that information is incorrect! How can someone who was born in 1789 be the eighteen-year old son of someone who was born in 1812? If you go and actually read the article on Ibrahim Pasha (1789-1848) you will quickly see that I am right on this issue. Ibrahim Pasha (1789-1848) was not Abbas I Pasha's son. The Ibrahim Pasha who inherited Abbas I Pasha's horses was Ibrahim Ilhami (al-Hami) Pasha (Jan. 3, 1836 - Sept. 9, 1860). This can easily be confirmed if you visit these 2 links:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~royalty/islamic/i743.html#I743
http://www.royalark.net/Egypt/egypt7.htm
Also, you say that if I have detailed information on some of the people mentioned in this article, that I should post it in the Wikipedia articles devoted to those people. I agree, but Ibrahim Ilhami (al-Hami) Pasha (1836-1860) and Ali Pasha Sherif's father, who died on Feb. 13, 1865, don't yet have Wikipedia articles devoted to them. Therefore, the only logical place to post this information, currently, is in your article on Ali Pasha Sherif.
Most of the information I have been adding to your article is fairly hard to track down, so if anyone is searching for this particular information and they find it in your article on Ali Pasha Sherif, I'm sure they will appreciate it. By adding this detailed information to your article, I am trying to make easy for people what would otherwise be a somewhat arduous research task for them. Believe me, I have spent many hours tracking down this information, and it isn't information which is easy to find and validate.
Most respectfully yours,
72.68.107.232 ( talk) 19:48, 7 November 2011 (UTC)Phil Kromer 72.68.107.232 ( talk) 19:48, 7 November 2011 (UTC) gibraltar37@gmail.com November 7, 2011
Dear Montanabw:
Hello!
I see in your Wikipedia article on Ali Pasha Sherif, that you recently made a link to the Ecole Militaire in Paris. This is an error. The Ecole Militaire is not the same institution as the Ecole Militaire Egyptienne. Ali Pasha Sherif attended the Ecole Militaire Egyptienne, not the Ecole Militaire.
The Ecole Militaire Egyptienne was a special school that Muhammad Ali Pasha (1769-1849) set up in Paris for the exclusive use of students that he personally approved and sent there. The school was in existence for only 5 years (1844-1849). After Muhammad Ali Pasha passed away in 1849, the school was quickly closed down by Abbas I Pasha who was the Governor of Egypt from 1848-1854.
There are other errors in this article which I have detected. The major remaining error is the confusion of Ali Pasha Sherif's father (who died on Feb. 13, 1865) with a man named Muhammad Sharif Pasha (Feb. 1826 - April 20, 1887). Muhammad Ali Pasha (1769-1849) and these other 2 men were all born at Kavala in northern Greece, which has led many people who are not careful in their research to assume that Ali Pasha Sherif's father and Muhammad Sharif Pasha (1826-1887) were the same person.
My research on this particular issue is still continuing, but following are the basic conclusions I have arrived at.
It was indeed Ali Pasha Sherif's father who was Governor of Damascus, Syria from November 1832 to some time in 1838. Since Muhammad Sharif Pasha wasn't born until 1826, he couldn't have been appointed Governor of Syria in 1832, since he would have only been 6 years old at the time of the appointment. Also, more than likely it was also Ali Pasha Sherif's father who was head of the Egyptian Financial Ministry in 1844, since Muhammad Sharif Pasha would only have been 18 years old at that time.
However, since Ali Pasha Sherif's father died in 1865, the Egyptian governmental positions that he is usually credited as holding in the 1870s and 1880s were actually held by Muhammad Sharif Pasha, who didn't die until 1887.
Another point well worth considering is the following.
It is known that Ali Pasha Sherif (1834-1897) had 2 brothers, namely Khalil Pasha Sherif (June 20, 1831 - January 12, 1879) and Osman. Khalil was a famous art collector and Ottoman diplomat. If you check the biographical and genealogical records available on Muhammad Sharif Pasha (1826-1887), you will find that he had a few sons, but that their first names were not Ali, Khalil and Osman. This is further proof that Ali Pasha Sherif's father and Muhammad Sharif Pasha were definitely not the same man.
Furthermore, the available records state the following.
"Muhammad Ali Pasha [1769-1849] brought El Sayed Muhammad Cherif [Ali Pasha Sherif's father], of Kawala [Kavala, a city in Macedonia, Greece] origin, to Egypt when he was 12 years old, and obtained admittance for him into the school at Khanka [El-Khanka, a city 12 miles northeast of Cairo], where all the sons of the Pashas and Princes were educated. He filled many posts in the Egyptian government during the reign of Muhammad Ali Pasha under the name El Sayed Mohamed Cherif Pacha El Kebir. He was made Wali (Governor) of all Arabia, including Lebanon and Syria."
According to the historical records, Muhammad Ali Pasha (1769-1849) was born in Kavala (Cavalla), Macedonia, Greece, and first journeyed to Egypt in 1799 (when he was about 30 years old) as an officer in the Ottoman expeditionary force that was defeated by the French at Abu Kir in July, 1799. It is quite possible that when Muhammad Ali Pasha left Kavala for Egypt in 1799, he took 12-year old El Sayed Muhammad Cherif with him. If that was indeed the case, then we can calculate that if El Sayed Muhammad Cherif was 12 years old in 1799, he was born around the year 1787. This is another proof that El Sayed Muhammad Cherif and Muhammad Sharif Pasha were not the same person, since Muhammad Sharif Pasha wasn't born until 1826 - approximately 39 years after the birth of Ali Pasha Sherif's father.
I plan to add some documentation to your article, in substantiation of the statements made above, as time permits. Plus, I am still conducting research in order to make sure that I have reached the right conclusions on these particular points. This is very much a work in progress.
Sincerely yours,
72.68.107.232 ( talk) 12:30, 9 November 2011 (UTC)Phil Kromer 72.68.107.232 ( talk) 12:30, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
gibraltar37@gmail.com November 9, 2011
--- I'll fix the link. What we desperately need here are the actual source citations for the "historical records" you are putting in above. I'm not questioning what you are saying, only that we have to have information on the actual source documents (read WP:CITE, WP:V, and {[WP:RS]] to see what I'm talking about. Wikipedia really needs to have the actual source material cited, if we can do so) I'm also going to move this over to the talk page for the article so it can be available to anyone else working on it. Montanabw (talk) 15:53, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
Hi Montanabw, You proposed me a friendly hand on Mike Cline's talk page, so I would be very glad to accept your offer! I also don't have any particular link with Buddhism, but I found very disturbing the way a few contributors are systematically moving and removing content from the English WP pages.
A specific issue is the non-respect of the naming conventions, which gives a primary position to the conventional English spelling for foreign-language names (in that particular case Tibetan). It is very positive when these editors are adding Chinese and/or Tibetan alternative spellings, the problem is that by doing so they also systematically delete or move to a less prominent position the traditional English spelling. Beside the lack of respect for English language and for the work of previous editors, they also lower the quality of WP pages and make a search for these names more difficult.
I've spent a bit of time over the past few days monitoring the activities of Quigley and 虞海, but I don't have the required IT skills to revert all the controversial edits and won't have the time in future to permanently monitor it. A "friendly" hand will therefore be more than appreciated.-- Pseudois ( talk) 06:48, 12 November 2011 (UTC)-- Pseudois ( talk) 06:52, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
I just created this. Care to try to add to it? I can't find much on it. PumpkinSky talk 13:28, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
Yeah [20] [21]. I removed their article talk rant but I hate to alter user talk if I can help it, so I let that slide for a few hours. Came back just now with the intention of collapsing it with a header including "something about the best way to cook a steak". Your approach was likely the better one, thanks for addressing it before I had to. Regards. Franamax ( talk) 01:35, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
For God's sake, would you please stop deleting 2/3 of the Missoula, Montana page. You've done it three times now. Just leave a note and someone competent can remove the knitpicky items you seem to be obsessed with. Next time I'll just report it as vandalism. Dsetay ( talk) 04:09, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
Welcome to Wikipedia. Everyone is welcome to contribute to the encyclopedia, but when you add or change content, as you did to the article Menorquín horse, please cite a reliable source for your addition. This helps maintain our policy of verifiability. See Wikipedia:Citing sources for how to cite sources, and the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you. Justlettersandnumbers ( talk) 23:11, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
Hi. I had created the account ISPMB Horses as an organization so I could write or suggest an article about them. Found out from you and Dragonflysixtyseven that I went about it wrong. I created a new account "Equus Ferus" per Dragonfly's suggestion. I am an individual who has mustangs and volunteers for horse rescues. I just started volunteering for ISPMB. I want to submit an article about them since ISPMB the the organization that was started by Velma Johnston (Wild Horse Annie) and there is an article about her. I have also written to Dragonflysixtyseven for help since I am very new and have not done this before. Although I have read how to do this in Wikipedia, I can't seem to figure it out. Thank you for any help or suggestions. Equus Ferus ( talk) 17:55, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
Thank you for the information. I will read and see what I can come up with. Once I have a rough outline, how can I have someone (you) review it for me to see if it is neutral? Equus Ferus ( talk) 22:43, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
I'd like to do an article on the Yogo sapphire. Do you have or can you get one or more free images of them? I can't find any. I have, or perhaps used to have, a Yogo mounted in white gold, but I'll be darned if I can find it. PumpkinSky talk 22:32, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
I've moved my Yogo sandbox to mainspace. Posting to Montanabw's and Tim1965's talk pages. A few thoughts:
Coolness! Will report there! Yessir! Montanabw (talk) 05:20, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
I forgot to ping you. I have accepted the review and it is already under way.-- TonyTheTiger ( T/ C/ BIO/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:FOUR) 03:48, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
Thanks MT BW! See you two got it done after I dozed off. PumpkinSky talk 13:58, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
OK, I have maybe come up with a way forward, and in the spirit of WP:BOLD have created it. The page is at equestrian facility and I would intend it to replace stable, livery yard and other similar small articles. These article are all stubby and small at the moment (and unlikely to ever become long enough or good enough on their own), and cross over with each other (as many stables also have a rising school, equestrian centre etc.), so the idea is to cover them all in one place, like we do with horse care.
Now i haven't finished - there are still other sections to add, but i concentrated on the stabling section first, where i've tried as hard as possible to keep it international, with explanation of the relevant terms where I can.
However, whilst I'm working, I know that you'll have valuable input so I would be grateful if you could have a look. Once it is in a reasonable state, I would then suggest redirecting the other articles to this single page (which is why livery yard, stable etc. are not in-line linked).
Regards, OwainDavies ( about)( talk) edited at 19:36, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
Probably not stable vices, as that is more a behavior/medical issue than management. But see also horse management. We also have pen (enclosure) and stuff like paddock, where the US and UK terms have widely varying meanings. "Yard" would not work at all because in US English, that's what your kids play in. We might be stuck with equestrian facility, much as I loathe the title, I can't think of one better. Montanabw (talk) 21:10, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
See T:DYK/Q. Yogo sapphire is in queue 1 and should appear as the lead dyk with photo at 11am today, eastern US time. I think this is the best new article I've ever worked on and truly appreciate all the help. PumpkinSky talk 10:55, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
OK, I've listed this for GA. It's the only one in it's category. Any help would be appreciated. We should look at its current state with GA-level in mind. I don't have any experience to speak of at this level, so help would be great. I think we need to expand the lead. PumpkinSky talk 20:03, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
BS going on at the Yogo GAC. PumpkinSky talk 04:43, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
Not only does this sound barbaric and painful, but idiotic. PumpkinSky talk 01:57, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
Hi Montanabw, consider spending a minute on the article to rephrase and/or clarify that "self-declared" stuff. If you can do that, the whole edit war will be over very quickly. BTW, the IP editor has been warned (by another editor) for edit-warring, but you are guilty of the same infraction, of course (that I may agree on the content is irrelevant). Thanks, and happy days, Drmies ( talk) 18:20, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Hi, I saw that you've been editing a few of the horse jumping articles recently. If this is an area of interest for you, I'd like to invite you to join WikiProject Equine. We've lost our specialist in the H/J stuff (I have some background, but I also have 1500+ WPEQ articles watchlisted, thus I've painted myself into a generalist corner) so if this is your thing, please join! Montanabw (talk) 23:30, 5 January 2011 (UTC)
Do not have any experience in Western topics, but can edit generally there. I'll start by nibbling at the edges in editing and clean-up by accessing the list of articles at the project page and selecting the ones I want to tackle. That might lead to more involvement. I still have other interests that attract me, but will keep coming back to the project while I believe I can make a contribution to its improvement. _ _ _ _ 83d40m ( talk) 20:49, 17 January 2011 (UTC)
The building became a middle school when Bozeman HS was built, later it housed the Bridger Alternative HS program but that is leaving [1] and I think it will be relegated to administrative offices. -- Mike Cline ( talk) 20:00, 20 January 2011 (UTC)
You said something not long ago (can't remember where ) about the Shetland (pony)/Shetland pony/Shetland Pony thing, and that it had been discussed at some point and a consensus reached for the middle version. Can you remember where or when that discussion was, and what the rationale was? Richard New Forest ( talk) 10:29, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
I wanted my own section too, so as to not hijack Pippa's completely. My business this time is this: is this horse quite a fatty or am I imagining things? Henneke BC score estimate? How about the animals in the relevant cat? Pitke ( talk) 23:38, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
After reading FHOTD: why do the animal welfare laws allow things like
If the last one was forbidden, people would have less chance of receiving money from their horse scraps as opposed to having to pay for putting it down. Pitke ( talk) 00:44, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
We also have an absolute multiple personality when it comes to horse slaughter. Keep in mind that most Americans absolutely refuse to eat horsemeat and think it's absolutely disgusting for anyone else to do so. (It's our favorite criticism of the French, we tell our naughty horses that they will get a one-way ticket to Paris if they don't behave!) But then we eat stuff like peeps and cheetos, so go figure. So we have no horses raised deliberately for the horsemeat market, we only sell the sick, the old, the broken down and the unsaleable culls. On one hand, in most states, horses are legally defined as livestock and could be sold for "salvage value" (i.e. slaughter, and yes, people ARE too cheap to euthanize, they'd rather get $100 for something half-dead than pay $150 for the shot and more to have the carcass hauled away and/or buried. But you have a good idea, to ban the sale of the half-dead stuff), but we have also shut down all horse slaughter plants in the US in recent years, for an assortment of reasons, mostly technical but related to public pressure. Many non-horse people and non-commercial horse owners think of horses as companion animals, and so we quietly run livestock auctions in most states, and virtually the only horses going through public auction are the ones no one wants and the canner buyers will get most of them. Our canners now just get shipped to Canada or Mexico for slaughter (and the conditions in Mexican slaughterhouses are horrific) Meanwhile, the horse slaughter issue is hugely emotional on both sides in the USA, there is legislation out there proposing to ban even the shipment of horses to slaughter, and at the same time, a lot of people blame our horse neglect problems on the closure of US horsemeat processing. All I can say for sure is that Montana is a place where slaughter horses have been shipped to Canada for decades (Calgary is closer than Texas, basically) and can still be shipped to Canada, but yet we still just recently had to bail out a large animal rescue place with 1200 animals (mostly Llamas, but a couple hundred horses and donkeys too) and also just had another guy half-starving 450 horses out on the open range rather than holding a "production sale." So there's no logic to it other than that there is no real market and very low horsemeat prices. That may not answer your questions, but it shows you what we are up against. Montanabw (talk) 04:53, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
On a totally random note, can't we please find a way to illustrate something, anything, with this? It's too great to go unused! Pitke ( talk) 08:33, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
Here in the UK (don't know what it's like elsewhere), you can't get someone prosecuted for cruelty to an animal that doesn't belong to them, or isn;t in their care. So people can go and walk into someone else's paddocks or stables, stab and slash and main the horses, and can't get done for cruelty, but only (if you're lucky) for 'criminal damage'. To me, that's as daft as saying that you can get done for GBH on a member of your own family, but not for some random stranger you happen tomug in the street! Your thoughts on this stupidity? ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 14:33, 11 February 2011 (UTC))
I can't keep my own talk page straight, so answering everything from the last couple of days here! (grin) Montanabw (talk) 07:41, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
Now everyone answer BELOW this! ;-) Montanabw (talk) 07:41, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
Hahaha! I'm sorry to have apparently hijacked your talk page, Montana :o)
If you need close-up pics of various horse colour / markings stuff, there's always a possibility that I may have (or be able to take) an 'all-own-work' illustrative pic. Or I may not - but it might be worth asking, lol! (It might take a while, till I have access to whichever of our many thousands of semi-ferals with the desired type happen to turn up an a round-up .......) Happy to help out if I can :) ( PippaRivers ( talk) 12:27, 3 February 2011 (UTC))
Which kind do you want? And what's the best way to upload? (And can I be darned lazy and just email them 'with author's permission to use' to someone else who can upload them .......... ) lol||! I have a kewl pic of a beautifully top-frosted and skunk-tailed bay rabicano New Forest pony, also various pics of markings of different types on some of my own animals, and Ben d'Or spot of a chestnut roan New Forest pony, and x,y, and z others( PippaRivers ( talk) 13:40, 3 February 2011 (UTC))
I shall play at photo-hunt amongst my (too many) pics. I have a friend who owns a bay-varnish-roan tobiano pintaloosa! I may be able to get a pic ..... I will try. I also have some of a strikingly-marked dun-appaloosa (almost stripy) foal which I encountered on a round-up and subsequently took pics of when it went through the sale yard. ( PippaRivers ( talk) 14:56, 3 February 2011 (UTC))
I uploaded a load! I have no idea how to direct you to them, but suppose my contributions would get them for you. I have so many pics .... most with their camera-produced names .... errrrk! Hunting them down relies on my memory of approximately when they were taken! ( PippaRivers ( talk) 16:36, 3 February 2011 (UTC))
Chzz ► helped me out with the link below, and Pitke ( talk) was a gem and catted them for me :o) I restore saddlery for a hobby / semi-income-generator. Got a few pics of the innards of saddles, if any use? Folks here in the UK don't seem to do much in the way of genetic testing (we're all either misers or skint - and I know which group I fall into!) so your chances of getting a pic of anything that's actually been tested from me are minimal!
( PippaRivers ( talk) 04:11, 5 February 2011 (UTC))
You're gonna love this. Honest you are. I have just dug out a load more pics (ponies and saddlery stuff) and have barely touched the surface. So I'm going to upload a heap (worst thing is remembering to go find out what date they were, so I can say so on uploading. I keep forgetting!) But ..... erm .... I still don't know how to cat them all :o( I'm too new at it. (I'm on a Mac, by the way). Soooooooo ...... if I send you a link to the stuff, could you (dear, sweet, kind Montana) possibly go and play with cats (no, not KITties) when I'm done? ( PippaRivers ( talk) 13:39, 7 February 2011 (UTC))
They're all here: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/PippaRivers :o) Including some saddle-innards, Aussie saddles, semi-flaxen ponies (partial flaxen dilution - seems to be working as an incomplete dominant, or summat ......), various types of saddles. Includes some old pack saddles - bet you don't find many pics of those! ( PippaRivers ( talk) 15:05, 7 February 2011 (UTC))
Ta muchly :o). I know it's possible to cat as you upload ... fing is, though, fing is, that I don't know what all the category names are, or where to find the blighters in the first place! A complete pull-down list (intelligent, so you can just put something darned obvious in), might be what I need. Of course, that might be what's there already ...... The lovely brown NF stallion was definitely courting (we have a vid at home of more playful behaviour ... nothing x-rated, just affectionate courtship flirting :o) ) ( PippaRivers ( talk) 16:30, 7 February 2011 (UTC))
I thought that few-spot leopard was supposed to be full-spot leopard in homozygous form? ???? ???? :o) ( PippaRivers ( talk) 20:40, 7 February 2011 (UTC))
No takers on the boa, then? [grins] (
PippaRivers (
talk)
16:21, 8 February 2011 (UTC))
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:BoaInTheBath.jpg She is an awesome creature :o) Still only just over half-grown, measuring just under 7 foot long at the moment. ( PippaRivers ( talk) 08:44, 9 February 2011 (UTC))
You mentioned something about maybe having articles on saddle making / repair / wossname :o) Could you do anything with stuff like this: http://www.seaspiritoftheforest.co.uk/Saddlery/saddlepanel.html or this: http://www.seaspiritoftheforest.co.uk/Saddlery/ReseatingHastilow.html
You could grab'n'paste ('n'edit!) the text, and ask me to upload here any of the pics which aren't yet here, if you like :o) ( PippaRivers ( talk) 11:50, 9 February 2011 (UTC))
As they're my pages, presumably it would be OK for me to copy stuff verbatim (except then I'd have to do that work thing and re-write it in a Wiki-kinda way as opposed to a how-to kinda way. How about you copy it verbatim with my permission (into your sandbox, lol, me being bone idle again, so what's new? And btw, thank's for the sandbox link on my page, you're a Nangel :o) ) and you do the donkey work on re-writing it in the correct 'mode' and run it by me .......... (dontcha just love it when someone says that, lol!) ( PippaRivers ( talk) 22:59, 9 February 2011 (UTC))
Check this out ......... http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Saddle_structure ( PippaRivers ( talk) 11:39, 10 February 2011 (UTC))
Who here has a tame geneticist (the lab-type, or "GN1", sort .....) they can bully nudge into playing "Name That Sabino!" We have SB1. The next obvious place to look for the prospective SB2 (or whatever) would seem (on logic ... yup, there I go again!) to be the
Clydesdale Horse. They don't throw SB1 Sabino whites / White Blagdons (ever, I think), but they do throw their own Sabino-pattern stuff all the time. And it's distinctive enough that you can pretty much look at that pattern, say "That's got Clydesdale in its breeding," and then confirm that it has from it's 'pedigree' (kindly provided by owner, for instance).(
ThatPeskyCommoner (
talk)
14:08, 11 February 2011 (UTC))
Noticing the trout-slapping bit. I have to say, I am all against it. Think of the ongoing psychological trauma for the poor trout, for example, if it was forced (against its will) to come into actual physical contact with me. Poor thing - doesn't bear thinking about.
How about "Wikipedians who will do almost anything for the biscuit but hide quivering under the table if the rolled-up newspaper appears" ? (oooops I forgot to log in again!) ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 13:33, 11 February 2011 (UTC))
Haha! (Read those. And a gazillion pages which they linked to, second, third level down .....)
Yes, maybe I'm a bit of a puppy at the moment. I shall try to be less puppyish and more constructive. (But at least I am a werewolfy puppy :-) ) I have been doing some minor tinkering with the Dartmoor Pony page (it seems a bit sparse, and had the usual problem of people believing that all ponies on Dartmoor must be Dartmoor Ponies (we have the same situation in the New Forest). I think I may actually go to a real-life library, source some good books (if there are many!) on the Dartmoor Pony, and do more with the article. Do the pic contribs make me less of a puppy? [Wags tail, flattens ears appealingly, does that wrinkly-nose doggy-smile thing - you know the one!] My problem at the moment (and possibly for a long time) will always be the one of "I know this, but where was the darned source of my knowledge?" We've mentioned this one before. I have real-life constraints about ability to visit library at the moment (can't drive safely yet due to surgery on hand last November, and as the OH and I are full-time carers for elderly parent, plus having way too many other real-life commitments, fitting in time for OH to take me to the library, plus finding granny-sitter, is problematical). There may be other UK-equine type pages where I can be useful. And I would love to work collaboratively with someone on some saddlery stuff - even if my biggest contribution is providing pics.
Maybe one of the reasons I'm a bit chatty in user space is that it's such a refreshing change to interact with people who actually have brains! ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 03:36, 12 February 2011 (UTC))
On the saddle thing, I don't know if in your travels you've ever torn apart a western saddle the way you've torn apart an English saddle, I know they aren't apt to be too common in your neck of the woods, but you'd be in my good graces for a very long time if you could produce a photo of a western saddle tree! I would be interested in collaboration improving the tack articles, we have a ton, most are still unsourced, some have bad info. I've got several books on tack, just been to lazy-ass to drag them out and do the articles. (You know, it's called real life...darn!) We have a good editor who is Australian and slaps us upside the head if we get too US-Centric in our lingo, but we're trying valiantly to keep all the different terms included somewhere. See, for example, halter. (BTW, the "rule" on wiki is whoever starts the article usually gets to dictate if it's US or UK English from there on out, unless there's a really logical reason to switch it -- like an article on London probably should be in UK English even if it was started in US, and vice- versa for, say, New York City)
I disassembled a child's Western-type saddle, with the intent of re-lining it. That was about five years ago - and guess what! Yup, all the bits are still in a box. Somewhere. The tree's cantle has split off at the top, so no-go on the rebuild job, but I daresay it could be glued together for a pic. (And I don't know if it's really representative of a 'normal' Western tree, as I don't know that much about Western saddles.) When I have a few moments spare, I'll take some piece-by-piece pics of a set of driving harness; they may be useful someday. I had to add a new section to my pwn talk page (for discussion) - go see What Wikipedia Is Not, for me, lol! I have been reading forever! Trying to rapid-learn-and-memorise everything on rules, guidelines, Wikiquette, and so on. I make goofy mistakes; probably always will. ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 07:15, 12 February 2011 (UTC))
btw, was it naff-Wikiquette for me to have reorganised my section on your talk page? If it was, then I do apologise! ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 07:32, 12 February 2011 (UTC))
How about a WikiWolfcub category ..... WikiPuppy with attitude who occasionally goes off on a hunting spree to attack articles and chew them around a bit? ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 10:56, 14 February 2011 (UTC))
I think I figured it out. With some input from Chzz :o) Does this work now? Wikipedia:WikiWolfcub ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 20:38, 15 February 2011 (UTC))
Got a dinky userbox on the WikiWolfcub page now for anyone who adopts a Wolfcub, either deliberately or by accident! You may want to use it as an excuse for getting overwhelmed, lol! Do you like? [cub wags tail, displays appealing ears, does that down-on-the-elbows thing - you know the one - adopt the cutie wolf-cub, go on, go on, you know you wanna play] ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 13:03, 17 February 2011 (UTC))
Looking at the British Riding Clubs thing (currently buried in the BHS page) - if I can expand it enough, would it merit an article of its own? References are all likely to come from their own website - is that good enough?
Similarly with the British Show Horse Association - I'm sure I can do a lot of expanding, but due to limited mobility, again all the info may well be likely to come from their own websites, so unlikely to be able to cite much in the way of other publications. What do you think? ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 13:03, 17 February 2011 (UTC))
Things like the BSHA and The Riding Clubs have always had championships and other competitions at major national/international shows - for example, the finals of things like the Riding Clubs Quadrille, and many of the BSHA classes, are held at the London International Horse Show at Olympia, which is one of the biggest shows of the British year, and gets TV coverage and so on. Other championship classes are at the Horse of the Year Show. Does that make them notable enough?( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 16:25, 17 February 2011 (UTC))
Dana, do feel free to call me "Pesky" - I won't take offence, coz I know it's true :o) ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 18:49, 17 February 2011 (UTC))
I've fluffed-up the BSHA and the Riding Clubs bit on the BHS page (nothing more to cite than their own websites). I think the problem with most of these societies is that the only people who might be interested in publishing anything about them are all far too busy playing with their horses, lol! ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 18:32, 17 February 2011 (UTC))
I was sorely tempted to bung in a bit more on the Riding Clubs Quadrille competition, just so I could puff-off how good our New Forest ponies are - the New Forest Pony Enthusiasts Club is a BRC member club, and the only club where all mounts are pure-bred registered NF ponies (and compete successfully against their horsey counterparts at all levels, bless 'em!). And WE WON the Quadrille at Olympia 2010! Yeeeeeee-haw! But I thought it might be giving undue weight to how brill my favourite British pony breed is :o) So I restrained my wolfcubbish pounce-and-play instincts, and was a Good Cub instead :o) ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 18:38, 17 February 2011 (UTC))
Watch part of it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGRHRTzGRHI They did good! And had a load of fun. And possibly the best thing is that the ponies who do that stuff also do the NF Point-to-Point race (I think the only P2P in Britain still run under the 'original' rules - start point set, finish point set, pick your own route) and they also do the Forest drifts, so very much 'working ponies'. See clips of all four finast teams here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vkf7j2tbEjU&NR=1 Oooohhhh, found much better vid of the Foresters here : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTHZshxdMNY ; and the grey in there is a working stallion (as well as a Championship winner of Mountain and Moorland ponies!) Dontcha just gotta love 'em?
Maybe you could get something similar to the Quadrille to catch on in the USA? I don't think there's anough on the Quadrille to give it its own article!
And you could always do the sort of dancing where nobody's watching ... and yes, dance is a tremendously good thing for the whole body. As is floor-type gymnastics (when I was a full-time instructor, teaching wannabe instructors, I had them doing gymnastic stuff quite often, lol!) But I would go with the baggy-cargo-pants with reflective swirl-strips, personally, if anyone was watching. They focus on the sparkly bits, not the body underneath! I have to admit, I like rave-dancing. And I'm not too old for it, I can still do the splits! (Comes of having Ehlers-Danlos, but who cares?) ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 19:40, 17 February 2011 (UTC))
Faaaan-blerdy-tastic on the reining! Wow!
NFs are incredibly versatile animals, and make a wonderful outcross for a good all-around competition horse. Back in the 70's, in the area where I was working at the time, there were a lot of really good competition horses, working in all disciplines, which were mixtures of TB, NF and Welsh Section D. Nowadays everyone's into warmbloods ..... but I have a stunning NF x TB mare (wild, and a total diva, but stunning nonetheless - see File:ChestnutNFxTB.jpg), and I'd just love to find a really good TB x Welsh D stallion to put her to. (Imagine: chestnut mare, half TB, which I got completely unhandled as a six-year-old! A real 'project horse', lol! She's not halter-broken, but has been sat on. Hmmmmm!)
The Quadrille would catch on fast over in the USA, I'm sure. All it is is modified dressage-to-music (with a theme or story) for teams of four riders. I can just imagine a team of four stunning Arabs .... can't you? My first 'own-pony' (which I didn't get till I was nearly 20, and could only afford because he was a weanling when I got him) was Arab x Welsh, and such a stunner. And sooooooo well behaved - I used to teach little kiddies to ride on him (when he was older!), even though he wasn't gelded. You couldn't tell he was a stallion unless either (a) you put an in-season mare in front of him, or (b) you hunkered down to have a look underneath! I like a whole load of horse and pony breeds, always have done, but for me the NF's are the best UK pony breed, mainly for their versatility. They can happily carry a stone in weight for each hand in height, all day, when they're fit, so a lot are ridden by adults (specially round here!) All the riders in that Quadrille are adults (riding clubs are aimed at the over-18's, so it's really unusual to have an all-pony team doing anything at all). ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 03:53, 18 February 2011 (UTC))
I'm sure there's a USA branch of the New Forest Pony society ...... alternatively, find a rich sponsor, import some decent Foresters from over here (and the prices they're going for at the Beaulieu Road Sales these days are just ridiculous - our economy means the bottom's dropped right out of the market!) So it wouldn't break the bank, and start breeding some real decent ponies which can carry children and adults alike! My son bought a perfectly reasonable NF colt foal last year for just £10. No, I didn't miss off a zero! If there's a market for them over there, it could be your way to make a fortune, lol! ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 06:00, 18 February 2011 (UTC))
By the way, your Morgans are very like the finer-type Welsh Section D's :o) ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 06:13, 18 February 2011 (UTC))
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kimberwicke
Trust me on this ...... I suspect there may be many other articles on horsey tack stuff where the names derive from English place names. On my way through in search of things-I-can-add-to, I shall try and pick them out as I go. (Consider the Market Harborough martingale, the Rugby pelham - in fact, probably even the generic word 'Pelham' itself, as 'ham' is a place name - the Liverpool bit, the Worcester noseband, and so on ad infinitum). I've been wandering through tack articles and 'doing non-puppy-stuff' [wolf-cub wanna bone, gimme, gimme, good wolf-cub, waggy tail and wolfy tongue-lolling grin] ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 11:37, 13 February 2011 (UTC))
Too, too true! On the subject of pronunciation (I read the entire shaps/chaps thing yesterday!), here's one for you: which word in the English language is most often pronounced wrongly? ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 06:18, 14 February 2011 (UTC))
Suggesting re-titling the Welsh Pony article to "Welsh Pony and Cob"; see its Talk page ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 06:24, 18 February 2011 (UTC))
I actually managed to find and correctly insert loads of citations! (See Dartmoor Pony). [cub spins around chasing tail, kicking up the snow, catching snowflakes and generally playing the fool] ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 15:54, 18 February 2011 (UTC))
What would you think of merging Open stud book and Closed stud book to stud book? The latter is not huge (just under 17 kb), so could easily take the extra heft, and I think it would be easier to have all of the information in one place. Obviously, we'd have to put merge tags on all and wait to see if anyone else had issues, but bringing it here in advance so you can tell me if I'm way off base! Dana boomer ( talk) 20:47, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
I had one of those "I know I know it, but how do I know it?" moments at stupid o'clock this morning, so spent all day tracking down citations for my knowledge of pre-historic and early-historic uses of Exmoor ponies. Exhausting! But I have now managed to pre-date the History of the Breed section by about 1400 years from what it was, on the Exmoor Pony page. So I am well pleased, and deserve an extra-special wolf-toy. (That's in addition to the choccies I had to eat as brain-food in order to tidy up the refs and citations into something that looked reasonably Ok.) ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 20:39, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
Lol! Chocolate is brain-food. I suspect that for actual wolves, chocs would be as toxic as thay are to dogs! I have tracked down a possible reference (in Bennet and Hoffman) to a possible reference (in Speed and Etherington, 1952-1953) relating Equus caballus alaskae to the Exmoor. Cubs like to dig! ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 22:43, 22 February 2011 (UTC)
You may be interested in [8] Cgoodwin ( talk) 06:39, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
I ranted a bit on my talk page. Just a bit, lol! ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 08:44, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
Hm. Yes, Pitke is right, I value my life. I'll be celebrating my 40th year of Arabian horse ownership this year, but after Arab and Arab-like critters, my second favorites tend to fall under "cute-faced, smart, sturdy, sort of pony-looking critters" Which is why the horse gods probably made me train so damned many Appaloosas back when I thought I'd try to go pro! (the process taught me respect for the intelligence of Appaloosas, which may have been the point. LOL!) I think this means that I enjoy hanging out with the sort of horses who, if they had opposable thumbs, would rule the universe. As for UK horses selling well in the USA, check out Gypsy Vanner horse, take an unregistered critter with leg feathering and piebald spots, import it and call it "rare" -- and VIOLA! It's worth $10K! (Am I too cynical??) All you really need to do is find those "god knows what color THAT is" too-much-white-unregisterable NFs who still have a decent disposition, call them something like "Marbled New Forest Ponies," stick them on a plane and you too could be a millionaire! LOL! Montanabw (talk) 23:05, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
The thing I can't wait for, just to teach 'em to use the correct names around here, is for one of our people to export a Forester to the USA, calling it a dun, and then get sued because it's a buckskin! ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 12:41, 19 February 2011 (UTC))
Over this way folks are pretty hot on being insured for all their little shows, as well as the big ones. But over here, will they "waste their money" on doing either a dun or cream test when they're positive it's a dun, and all their friends say it is, too ......... noooooo waaaaaaaay! ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 06:20, 20 February 2011 (UTC))
Somewhere in my humungous pic collection I have some pics of a buckskin Forester with really almost-convincing pseudo-dun markings - all sooty countershading, of course, but quite enough to fool most people. I always clarify the 'dorsal' thing with 'must have correct, clear-edged and distinct dorsal, continuous from poll through dock unless broken by white markings' when I try to explain to people.' And then try to explain things like the dilute tail-cap sides, mane guard hairs, ear-tips and so on! And no sooty in the body coat! I have yet to see a true dun with sooty in its diluted areas.( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 06:11, 21 February 2011 (UTC))
In my experience, the sooty, if the horse has it, will show wherever the dun doesn;t dilute - so yes, face, dorsal, shoulder capes and stripes and so on, will all show sooty if the horse has it anyway. (Real duns don't have much in the way of face dilution, so the sooty would show up there). If the horse doesn't have sooty, all the primitive markings tend to show as whatever the base colour would be. If you have query-pics, let me take a look at them (close-ups best) and I'll have a crack at identifying, and then give you the rationale behind it. ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 06:19, 21 February 2011 (UTC))
My 'real speciality' is in the real mini-minutiae of phenotype, and probably always has been :o) ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 06:26, 21 February 2011 (UTC))
And now for our 'golden' Foresters .... I wanna track down what that's all about! There are very few of them, and the phenotype's all wrong for dun, buckskin, champagne and so on. And they don't belong to me, so I'm not likely to be able to grab hairs for a DNA test - even if I could afford the DNA test! The body coat (on bay and chestnut) is definitely a bit diluted by something - to golden-glossy to be straight bay or chestnut - but who knows what? ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 06:33, 21 February 2011 (UTC))
I do try and keep up with all the dilution-gene stuff, and what-can-be-tested-for stuff .... but these guys just don't fit anywhere! The only time I may be able to get some pics is on this year's round-ups (drifts) ... that is, provided that they're obliging enough to allow themselves to be rounded up this year! At first glance, you might think there was something Champagney going on there, but they don't have the skin mottling, nor the semi-dilute black points, nor the dilute eyes. But they do have that almost-metallic-golden look about the body. Hmmmmm. I can't categorise them anywhere, lol! ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 06:55, 21 February 2011 (UTC))
I'll go with a dun diagnosis on him for the dorsal, but the head seems a bit more dilute for what I'd expect of a dun. Has he been tested for champagne, too? (But no light eyes, hmmmmm .........( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 06:58, 21 February 2011 (UTC))
... anyone know what Pearl+dun does in combination on a bay base? ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 07:03, 21 February 2011 (UTC))
Your mottled grullo - dun on 'fading black' ????? ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 07:08, 21 February 2011 (UTC))
... and if you want a really kewl colour, check out here: http://www.flyinfoxranch.com/ for Sierra Hesa Chief - champagne, cream and dun dilutions combined on a brown base! ( ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 07:12, 21 February 2011 (UTC))
What gets me (get this!) is that in our New Forest registry, palomino stallions are not permitted (trying to eradicate cream), but buckskin stallions are just fine and dandy! Coz the guys over here call 'em dun. Now is that totally illogical thinking or what? ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 23:12, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
I literally almost pmsl when I read about the Zombie Elk which apparently lived (and lived again, and again, and again....) in Prehistoric Britain. Why, oh why, do we not have suitable emoticons here in WikiLand? ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 14:59, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
... and after discussion with Chzz, I have now created The Unoffical WikiZoo as a sanctuary for similar strange fauna. So if you come across any in your travels, please donate them to the Zoo! ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 11:09, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
Do you have a PMID for the "The origin of British horses. SPEED, J. G.; ETHERINGTON, M. G.; St Georg, Die Herkunft der britischen Pferde., 1953?, 54, 1, 4-7," or any alternative which has the "It is suggested that the original native horse of Britain in prehistoric times was a representative of the " Universal Pony, " which is said to have migrated from North America, and that the Exmoor Pony is a descendant of the type which existed in Britain ca. 100, 000 B. C." quote? Ta! ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 09:17, 23 February 2011 (UTC)
Unfortunately, I sent you all I got from the source, it was a subscription database called CAB direct, one of the ones the college gets, and I couldn't find the articles in any of the others, i.e. cience Direct, Wiley, etc.... you might drop a message to User:Sasata, who has sometimes been able to dig up scientific stuff for us at WPEQ. Tell Sasata a friend of Dana's sent you. Montanabw (talk) 21:08, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
Here's the cite exactly as it was downloaded to me. No PMID, unfortunately. The origin of British horses. SPEED, J. G.; ETHERINGTON, M. G.; St Georg, Die Herkunft der britischen Pferde., 1953?, 54, 1, 4-7, http://www.cabdirect.org/abstracts/19530101093.html It is suggested that the original native horse of Britain in prehistoric times was a representative of the " Universal Pony, " which is said to have migrated from North America, and that the Exmoor Pony is a descendant of the type which existed in Britain ca. 100, 000 B. C. The Fell Pony is thought to be derived from a northern pony of a later date (ca. 60, 000 B. C. ] which migrated to Britain along a more northerly route. Foreign types introduced into Britain in historic times are said to have had a detrimental influence on the native horse, and a plea is put forward for the preservation of the original pony breeds still in existence. The Exmoor Pony is described. The article is illustrated by several photographs. G. E. A. N.
...for assessing the first article I've written (although I hope to pitch in with more, and have been collecting sources). Is it very difficult to acquire pictures for new breed infoboxes? There doesn't seem to be much on Commons for breeds without existing articles; some websites have nice pictures, but I can't get my head around Wikipedia's fair-use explanations yet. Anyway, thanks again. Wi2g 23:54, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
I have posed some knotty questions for KimvdLinde, on her talk page. Take a wander over there and we'll see if, between us all, we can find something 'definitive' on ancientness on them. ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 12:41, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
Take a peek at the Exie-sandbox for me, please? ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 12:28, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
(cross-pasted from the Exie Sandbox - just in case you don't see it there first)
HERE's the marked-up image part of the 2002-study phylogenetic network. Note: the 2010 made no other changes to this section of the network, other than (importantly!) to re-name these B-clusters/nodes as I-clusters/nodes. And the 2002 C-clusters were renamed as B-clusters. I could seriously shake those 2010 people warmly by the throat for having done something so completely unnecessary and frustratingly confusing! ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 11:45, 2 March 2011 (UTC) (I have also copied across to Kim) ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 12:37, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
Thanks very much for all the good advice; I'll be referring to it a lot, since I'd like to pitch in with a couple more articles. Boy, it's hard to find RS for the obscure maybe-they're-breeds (although editors with Chinese or Russian fluency, say, may have access to more domestic sources for those breeds) but I read in the paper today that Google is shaking up its search-engine algorithms to return less eHow-type junk. Thanks for the tip on images too. BTW, do you know who is most active in the Thoroughbred-racing project? Wi2g 16:06, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
My Wolfcub has been suggested for deletion! How do we save it! (Comment is "This WikiFauna is redundant to the WikiPuppy. Even its userboxes are copied from the WikiPuppy's. If the creator wants, maybe we should userfy it for him since he seems to identify himself as a WikiWolfCub. ")
A WikiPuppy does not go and do the amount (or type) of stuff that I do - we are not the same thing! (Whine, whine ........) ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 04:46, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
Haha! I made the userbox into a non-clone, lol! Pretty aqua-green now :o) Think that'll do the trick? I have to say, I think the deletion request came across as a bit s- bite-ful ..... [hackles up?] ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 10:48, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
I think the Reaper was genuinely mistaken; closed discussion anyway and made quite nice comment on my talk page (and sorta admitted biteyness) so I awarded him/her a Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar for tacitly admitting guilt and making reparation. ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 21:28, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
Hello. First of all I would like to apologize for my very bad English. ^^ So, I'm contributing on the french Wikipedia and I work more particularly on the horses' and donkeys' races. I would soon like to create an article on the American Mammoth Jackstock and I see that it doesn't exist in any language, even in english. I don't find either a photo on commons. I found nice photos on flickr, but the licenses aren't adapted. I'm sorry to disturb you but, in view of your knowledge on the equestrian world, I thought you could have perhaps the possibility of getting one or several photos of this donkey. It would be so useful for me. Thank you very much in advance for your answer. -- Eponimm ( talk) 20:07, 3 March 2011 (UTC) -- Eponimm
1) "A Note on some British Late Pleistocene Remains of Horse R Burleigh, A Currant, E Jacobi", and "The skull of a Neolithic horse from Grime's Graves, Norfolk, England J Clutton-Brock" both from - Equids in the ancient world, 1991 - Reichert 2) Full text of this thing?
AND ......
3) Transactions of the Bristol and Gloucestershire Archaeological Society, Three Neolithic axes from the Severn Estuary by J. R. L. Allen 1990, V ol. 108, 171-174 … in which it says (and bugger, I can't paste it coz I'm looking at a bloody image for crying out loud, which is why I want proper web access) "In the vicinity of the finds, at Oldbury Flats and at Hill Flats, [… blah, blah] The overlying estuarial effluvium … consists of green estuarine silts, with the footprints of cattle, deer and horse. These peats … can be correlated to … lower Severn Estuary and Somerset levels, with ages ranging between about 6000 and 2500 conventional radiocarbon years. "
4) (Wiley) HEDGES, R., SAVILLE, A. and O’CONNELL, T. (2008), CHARACTERIZING THE DIET OF INDIVIDUALS AT THE NEOLITHIC CHAMBERED TOMB OF HAZLETON NORTH, GLOUCESTERSHIRE, ENGLAND, USING STABLE ISOTOPIC ANALYSIS. Archaeometry, 50: 114–128. doi: 10.1111/j.1475-4754.2007.00379.x (mentions horse remains / horse dung in that place) . Sorry about the caps, it was how it was on the page! ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 14:02, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
I tried Google books, scholar, all sorts! The only abstracts I could find were completely unhelpful, so the horsey stuff is buried deep in the text somewhere. I am very fast at whizzing through texts, though, so if and when you can get them I will go through everything and drag out everything relevant. ~~
Horse bones circa 3500 BC in southern England :o) See Exmoor pony talk page. Fills the post-ice-age gap quite a bit (about half way, in fact.) ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 09:27, 5 March 2011 (UTC)
... and some Holocene horse remains, and a 1500 BC Aurochs in Devon just north of Exmoor, in a site which is rapidly being washed into the sea - who knows what has already been washed away there? (Some miles downstream of the prehistoric hoof prints) ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 06:55, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
http://www.atlantisquest.com/Paleontology.html
Thought you might be interested in this one - loads of animals died very suddenly at the relevant time, and clearly not by the hand of man. (unless we had developed a really, really early atomic weapon :o) ) ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 10:03, 6 March 2011 (UTC)
Is here :o) ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 13:00, 8 March 2011 (UTC)
Cub did good - check out the Ice Age Map :o) You like? ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 15:57, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
I got so fed up with how long it was taking to try and find a free-use image, that I found this one in one of the sites I wandered around, and derived from there. It was just a much faster way of doing it! So I blew up the relevant section really big, faded it right down to almost nothing, and traced over the outlines before re-filling and labelling. The outline of 'modern Britain and Ireland' can just about be faintly seen under the ice, and the rest of the modern area is coloured a bit darker green than the bit that's now under the sea - my intention was to make it kinda clear, but not obtrusively so. I think it's quite cute that you can still see the crayon lines from my colouring, lol! How/where do I edit the bit to show where the map was derived from? I can easily knock up a horse outline drawing for you if you want, no probs. ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 07:41, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
Hi Montana - You may have already seen this, but Thoroughbred is going on the mainpage tomorrow (the 10th). Just FYI, as it's a big article and could get a lot of hits. Dana boomer ( talk) 17:12, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
As to your request on my page, if you are an admin you could edit it yourself: I'm not sure whether this is considered good etiquette though. I'm not sure whether it matters whether you edit
this version or
this one. Otherwise post a request at WP:ERRORS: Floquenbeam has promissed to be back there at midnight. I believe that there is a system for warning contributors of a forthcoming TFA
e.g. this, but I've no idea what the mechanism for identifying the recipient is.
Kevin McE (
talk)
22:01, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
Xx236 ( talk) 09:45, 3 March 2011 (UTC) Wieprz is village in Gmina Radziechowy-Wieprz. The history (in Polish) says:
Powstanie stadniny w Nowym Dworze w Wieprzu. Jej kierownikiem został Józef Gozdawa-Tyszkowski (Organization of the stud in Wieprz, the boss was Józef Gozdawa-Tyszkowski)
Xx236 ( talk) 08:46, 16 March 2011 (UTC)
Name this breed! (No prizes awarded, btw :o) ) ThatPeskyCommoner ( talk) 22:24, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
Saw this and have to point out my number would be 386. (ducks and runs). Ealdgyth - Talk 23:51, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
There has been a major revision of the the
Service Awards: the edit requirements for the higher levels have been greatly reduced, to make them reasonably attainable.
Because of this, your Service Award level has been changed, and you are now eligible for a higher level. I have taken the liberty of updating your award on your user page.
Herostratus ( talk) 20:52, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
Actually, the main star at the top of your userpage was up to date; the little userbox down at the bottom lagged this, I upgraded this to Most Pluperfect Labutnum. But... according to this you're eligible for another advance in six days, to Senior Editor III (or Labutnum of the Encyclopedia) anyway. Congratulations, and thank you for your many contributions to the Wikipedia! Herostratus ( talk) 20:52, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
Hmmm, I moved Asturcon to Asturcón, nitpicking being my speciality as you know. Turns out most of the article is lifted verbatim from [9]. So I tagged it, but am now wondering if that won't just make more mess than was necessary. What's done is done, I'm afraid. I suggest deleting the Astrurian redirect (that's going to be the title of Robert Ludlum's next novel), which should be easy but idk how to do. And adding the page to the list of pages that need stuff done about them ... Justlettersandnumbers ( talk) 20:28, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
You did say you could help, lol! (And that'll teach you to make rash promises .......)
Can you do the nomination thing for the History of horse article? Pretty please?
Pesky (
talk)
10:54, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
That's if I haven't sussed out how to do it myself by the time you read this ...... Pesky ( talk) 11:56, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
OK, so that was a whole heap easier than I expected it to be, lol! Pesky ( talk) 12:00, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
Coat colour is NOT my strongest suit, to put it mildly. So a couple of questions: (1) the Bardigiano standard allows for it to be anything from ordinary bay to 'morello maltinto', badly-coloured black. This is black with reddish highlights, but ... what on earth is it called in English? Is black bay correct? (2) a previous editor had put in seal brown; that is not mentioned in the standard and was apparently unreferenced, so I have for now removed it, but I'm not 100% confident that I was right do do so. What were seal brown horses called before they were called seal brown? Would you be kind enough to look at the article and comment? Also, I can't think of an English word for 'rabicanature'; rabicanations? I don't think so. Justlettersandnumbers ( talk) 22:26, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
Answers all around and thanks all for weighing in! First off, we had another editor with a degree in genetics do a TON of really good work on the genetics stuff at several of the coat color articles, so I always recommend reading them. Both bay (horse) and seal brown (horse) are decent articles. What little anyone really knows on sooty is at sooty (gene). "Mealy" IS pangare, but is not the same thing that makes a seal brown a seal brown. And yes, I suspect "Rabicanature" is rabicano (Which I think is actually a Spanish term) (we have some photos there that are pretty good of chestnuts, not so good on bays), but show a photo and I suspect we could tell you if it's actually a roan (horse), they are quite distinct. As for US and UK English, even within each nation there are disagreements, often regional ("mouse dun" "blue dun" and " grulla" are all argued over just in the USA, and some people don't understand that a "lineback dun" is a repetitious term) so it's probably best to stick to the most standard terms possible, and if you have to use some odd ones (see Fjord horse for some REALLY odd ones), then explain them. Montanabw (talk) 23:57, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
Second, a lot of those Bardigiano photos in commons look body-clipped me, and as many bay horses have something of a two-toned hair shaft, it's a pain to know what they "really" are. You will not go wrong just saying "bay." The bright red ones are sometimes called "classic" bay or "blood bay", but just "bay" implies that classic form, IMHO. On the darker animals, dark bay" is safe and generic enough that you may avoid useless "is it brown or is it sooty" spats. At one time you sometimes heard the term "Mahogany Bay" but I think it's gone completely out of style. (My rant about the term "black bay" is below) On the commons photos, I don't see the light areas around the muzzle, flanks and eyes that are typical of seal brown, except for this guy who has it at the flanks but not the muzzle, so even he is iffy. The photo you have linked, absent genetic testing to prove things one way or the other, could be a slightly bleached-out black, or a very dark bay. I don't see seal brown genetics there, nor any pangare. Until they locate the genetic mechanism and can test for sooty, "dark bay" is probably the more correct and least argument-inducing term unless you have a really obvious seal brown. Montanabw (talk) 23:57, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
Third, the underlying genetics start out the same for all bays/"brown" horses, they all carry at least one E allele and one A allele. (Hence, EeAa, EEAA, EeAA or EEAa) So they have a "black" base coat (as opposed to the recessive "red" -- chestnut-- base coat) with the Agouti gene suppressing black into just point coloration, allowing the underlying red base color to show through. To get Seal Brown, there is a variant A allele (At) that they can now do a DNA test for, but the seal brown is still genetically a "Bay" first. Sooty appears to be a totally different genetic mechanism that affects many different coat colors and also darkens coats independently of whatever is going on with agouti. And not yet testable. Montanabw (talk) 23:57, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
As an aside (putting on ranting hat) I LOATHE the term "black bay" because I'm old enough to remember when it got popular with Arabian breeders during the 70s and 80s to try and convince n00bs that their horses were "almost black" and so sell them for more money. It's a PR term. But I also think it sounds equally dumb (as well as often incorrect) to call all bay horses "brown" because "brown" just sounds so boring when a nice bay shade is such a lovely color -- at least unless there is genetic testing to prove we have a "seal brown" -- and TPC, I don't like that term either, it's actually relatively new in much of the USA too. Montanabw (talk) 23:57, 22 March 2011 (UTC)
A big thank you for these and to all who chipped in here, I've learnt something. I think I have found the answer I need, in the Simon & Schuster/Bongianni horse book, which it turns out is a translation of an Italian publication, and can be peeked inside on amazon. He gives "dull black" for black (slightly reddish); does this bring back any unpleasant childhood memories for anyone, or can I use it? Oh, and no way is the pic I posted of a Bardigiano! - but maybe that was just a bit of fun? Justlettersandnumbers ( talk) 20:43, 24 March 2011 (UTC)
I know he's not a dun, but you try telling that to the breed society! Trouble is, they want to have duns, so they call all the buckskins duns. We seem to have lost the true dun from the NF breed altogether (or at least certainly in the Forest area, and in every other pic of every other Forester anywhere else in the world that I've seen), but I just don't seem to be able to get the message across (real life version of IDONTHEARTHAT). He's (almost certainly him, anyway, as no other contenders in the picture ....) sired a double dilute, (so he has cream himself). No way are his owners going to pay for any testing! No benefit to them in doing so. Definitely doesn't look smoky black once you've seen him through all his various coat variations - sometimes very clearly a sooty buckskin (obvious buckskin overlain by obvious sooty top-mantling and / or dapples). And he's a gorgeous boy, too :o) Pesky ( talk) 11:51, 26 March 2011 (UTC)
<outdent> Not many gadzillionaires owning NF ponies over here, lol! Pesky ( talk) 07:35, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
Go cast a vote, lol! Drag a few friends along. Pesky ( talk) 16:55, 28 March 2011 (UTC)
BW, I have been spending a lot of time on the 4th floor of the MSU library with my campsus ambassador duties. Today, while killing a few minutes in the stacks, I stumbled on the run of Appaloosa News and Appaloosa Journal from 1963-1993. If you ever need me to look up something re the spotted horses, let me know. BTW, thanks for trashing the Bozeman trivia. Quite tedious it is. -- Mike Cline ( talk) 22:26, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
See here :o) Pesky ( talk) 21:04, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
Encouraged by the discussion page of Camargue (horse), I tried my hand on manades and made a trial version for a separate article on it. If you are still interedsted in the subject, please see if you can agree on my text. You'll find it in the only Sandbox on my Userpage. Paj ( talk) 21:24, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
Was that a helpful tone at Talk:Welsh Pony and Cob#Draught?? Richard New Forest ( talk) 08:43, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
OK, so you've toned down the snark at Menorquín horse, and it may have needed it. The trouble with that is that you have introduced a false statement that was not previously there. It is not in Spain that the two breeds are considered separate, but all over the world, the FAO being a completely authoritative and worldwide source; would you be kind enough to revert, and perhaps start a discussion there on how to phrase it better?
I'm sorry to repeat myself, but have to ask you again, would you please discuss before making edits to material that you know I have written, especially if you know that I have only just written it; and also refrain from unhiding poor material that you know I have not written? Since there has been an intervening edit, I have NO IDEA how to recover my previous version of Mérens, where I had intentionally hidden a load of garbage from a totally unreliable source that was wholly, diametrically at variance with what is in the breed standard (which I'd just put there for everyone to read anyway). I'm spending more time trying to pick up the pieces than getting anything done. I repeat, I do think about what I am doing while I am doing it. I make a lot of mistakes, I know, and I am always happy to know where they are. But it's a total waste of everybody's time if I have to keep running around putting things back. You are managing to step on my heels and my toes at the same time, and it is really seriously counter-productive. Please note that I do not charge around changing everything you've done the minute you've done it (well, OK, I did fix the incorrect redirect from Balearic horse right after you made it, but that was a one-off).
On the poor material thing, we obviously have widely different views. Yours, if I've understood correctly, and forgive me if I haven't, is 'keep it till something better comes along'; mine is 'bin it'. So we'd be at a sort of impasse if it wasn't for a chappie called Wales, who made it all very clear here: "Zero information is preferred to misleading or false information" (I've toned down the font size a bit from the original!) So could we please agree that for, say, a month or so, you will not unhide stuff I have hidden on the pages of the indigenous breeds of Europe or the traditional sports and riding styles associated with them, and I will not hide stuff on any of the other pages, however unsourced, biased and inappropriate I think it? And that we will discuss BEFORE, not after, messing with what the other has done? And then, after that month, review?
I also want to apologise for moving Balearic horse without checking with you first – the history showed clearly that you had recently moved it, but I saw it only after the dirty deed was done. That was impolite of me, I'm sorry. I hope you are satisfied with the result?
Justlettersandnumbers (
talk)
23:37, 5 April 2011 (UTC)
First:What a friendly page you have here. Makes me remember living in Kentucky, Louisville, and how honestly friendly everyone was. I investigated and.....You are absolutely correct! In fact there is one yachting event that requires at least one female on each team. I will contact my source, the Chicago Field Museum Members Magazine. Maybe I can get a personal interview with one of the mummies. TRA! Buster Seven Talk 20:02, 8 April 2011 (UTC)
Hi Montanabw/Archive 6. I have now moved the RfA reform and its associated pages to project space. The main page has been updated and streamlined. We now also have a new table on voter profiles. Please take a moment to check in and keep the pages on your watchlist. Regards, Kudpung กุดผึ้ง ( talk) 08:07, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
I've followed your work a lot and I'm not so convinced that you would fail an RfA. You'd need some guts to step into the snake pit though. Take my RfA as a very good example. You are well known and respected, and your supporters could well outweigh the opposition, even if it were at the last minute. The clue is to get very strong nom and co-nom. -- Kudpung กุดผึ้ง ( talk) 05:15, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
I know you are upset about various issues, but making snarky edit summaries like the one you made when this page was created is unhelpful, I think. (Tagging a category talk page with a wikiproject banner upon creation of the category is not mandatory; nor is it even recommended in the guidelines for creating categories. You may do tagging as you wish, but please don't suggest it is the responsibility of the category creator.) Good Ol’factory (talk) 00:55, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
Mission: to make the Finnhorse sound less amazing! Our darling GAN reviewer says: "I don't see any clear description of what Finnhorses are not suited for. :D Pitke ( talk) 12:59, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
I think you've answered that pretty well. (btw, I found Dcoetzee on IRC, looking for something constructive to do .... so I pointed him in the direction of Finnhorse). He says he is kinda a horsey person himself. Maybe we can sell him a Finnhorse, lol?! Pesky ( talk) 08:17, 18 April 2011 (UTC) Adding: is it possible for an article to be put up for GA and skip straight to FA? :o) Pesky ( talk) 08:23, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
I was asking, bearing in mind the reviewer's first comment ....... I meant, is it possible for a GA reviewer to decide that the article warrants an FA flag instead .... :o) Pesky ( talk) 16:00, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
Kudpung has asked me to 'nudge' some people .. as I'm an idle get, I'm just going through the entire Task Force list so my apologies if you didn't need a nudge! You can slap me about over on WP:EfD if you like :o) Straw polling various options: over here - please add views, agree with views, all that usual stuff. Pesky ( talk) 12:44, 18 April 2011 (UTC)
Hi, and thanks for the consideration. I do suspect that the Calgary Stampede article has the potential to face such edits - especially if I get it featured in time to appear on the main page for next year's centennial, but for the most part, the PETA types have left the article alone thus far. Certainly, if you have material to expand the Rodeo and Animal Welfare sections especially, I would love the help - I'll probably try to finish re-writing the animal welfare section today or tomorrow based on what I have atm. As far as Animal treatment in rodeo goes, I'm not sure I would even wish to touch that article. At a quick glance, I think the best bet would be to do a complete dump and rewrite of it, probably focusing on the events and intermixing the pro and con arguments throughout. Cheers, Reso lute 23:31, 19 April 2011 (UTC)
Hi. :) Per your request, I just wanted to let you know that a horse related article passed through CP today. The content has already been removed, but if you wanted to see the text for reconstruction it's all still visible at [11]. The article is Knabstrupper. -- Moonriddengirl (talk) 16:18, 24 April 2011 (UTC)
Um, these two are the two that have the longest recorded breeing histories, AND have influenced an insane number of horse breeds, making them appear in almost any given article about a modern horse breed. Both also have huge numbers of animals all over the world. How come they're not to be "high"/"top"? Pitke ( talk) 16:05, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
Let's take the individual assessments to the talk pages of the respective articles and discuss on a case-by-case basis. Overall, IMHO you are over-assessing articles when compared to other en.wiki projects. I do agree that the upgrade to mid on the color articles is probably wise, as all horses have a color. Upgrading some of the main equipment articles may also be in order because most horses use a saddle or harness, a bridle and have a halter. Health stuff affecting all horses probably qualifies for upgrades to (worming, laminitis, colic, etc...) But as you can see here, breed importance is hotly debated and best kept a bit low key. Montanabw (talk) 17:25, 25 April 2011 (UTC)
I think this is something that should be done for every relevant WikiProject for every relevant page.
I think that the relevant templates need to be added to each and every horse-related article, including all of the horse breed articles
I did propose that a bot be made to automatically add portals to pages awhile ago, but the proposal went nowhere WhisperToMe ( talk) 00:33, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
Some of your images or media files have been listed for deletion. Please see Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2011 April 27 if you are interested in preserving them.
Thank you.
To say "Hi" :o) Pesky ( talk) 07:04, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
Ponies that have spent their early years out on the Forest are so much better emotionally balanced - knowing how to be part of a herd, knowing where the 'boundaies' are in terms of acceptable behaviour (with other horses, at least!); used to the traffic, used tolooking after themselves, knowing what's actually worthy of being spooked at, and what's no problem. They have a good life out there. :o) Pesky ( talk) 18:17, 27 April 2011 (UTC)
Chzz (on IRC) has just pointed out that you probably need to use the Template:copied thing on the talk pages of the various Varian articles, even though you basically wrote most of them, just to avoid anyone (who cba to check out authorship on the others) shouting copyvio etc. at you! Pesky ( talk) 07:01, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Fabulous o_o Pitke ( talk) 18:34, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
Yay!!! We finally got Appaloosa to FA! It only took us...three years, I think :)
So, what should we work on next? Horse, or maybe Arabian horse? Or something a bit different - Gelding or Saddle? Ealdgyth, I'm asking you too - it's just easier to post on one page instead of both :) Dana boomer ( talk) 19:01, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
I had a quick canter through the Arabian article and tweaked it here and there, mainly just concentrating for the moment on reducing choppiness and increasing fluidity of prose. Will come back to it again to look for more things; meanwhile I may do the same with Horse soon(ish). Pesky ( talk … stalk!) 12:06, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
I have a number of books on Canada and there is nothing that would even hint that Hudson's Bay people were this far from the Bay in 1743. The Verendrye brothers, who were from French Canada and competing with HBC, definitely saw either the Big Horns or Black Hills in 1743 and no other Europeans seem to have been in the area until Lewis and Clark in 1804-05. 1743 can only be Verendreye. There is nothing in the Verendrye journals that would prove that the Horse People or Bow People were Crow, all tribal assignments being guesses. As for Rhonda Massingham, Amazon.com search shows she seems to be a popular gardining writer who wrote text for a book of photographs - not a reliable source. I would be inclined to say that in '1743 explorers from Canada found the natives of the area in possession of many horses'. Benjamin Trovato ( talk) 12:23, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
Hopefully my latest here will suffice as a reliable source ... lol! Pesky ( talk … stalk!) 07:29, 27 June 2011 (UTC)
Following that "discussion" on the whole hands thing I can see why folks don't contribute here. Sad... Intothatdarkness ( talk) 18:26, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
Hi. I stumbled across Dan Bailey today and did some format improvements to it. Then I found Flathead Indian Reservation and it's in need of major work (check the last version before today when I started on it). Then I checked out the WikiProject Montana page and saw you listed as a member and willing to help and answer questions. I was wondering if you're interested in helping with the Flathead article. PumpkinSky talk 13:39, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
Yes I am EXTREMELY opposed to posting someone's paper as the Animal Assisted Therapy article. It represents a particular point of view which is not in line with Wikipedia standards. I intend to delete it again, if it is not rewritten to be more objective. The Dogfather ( talk) 13:20, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
Could you find coordinates for Soldiers Chapel? -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 08:18, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
I'm not good at doing that properly, but they would be the same as Big Sky, Montana, the resort community. Montanabw (talk) 16:07, 25 July 2011 (UTC)
I just caught sight of you on my talk page :D
My beautiful boa now has a starring role in Boa constrictor; see full-res vid here. Ain't she fast?! We need someone with a high-frame-rate camera now, to get a really good slow-mo vid of the strike.
Ponies send their love. Pesky ( talk … stalk!) 19:25, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
While working on List of people from Montana, I came across Mary Clearman Blew, a writer, and she needs an article so I can include her in the list. Google reveals some good sources. PumpkinSky talk 23:27, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
Montana#Indian_reservations has an error in the image. It says "Rocky's Boys" but should be "Rocky Boys". PumpkinSky talk 00:08, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Confident Saddleseat rider.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Possibly unfree files because its copyright status is unclear or disputed. If the file's copyright status cannot be verified, it may be deleted. You may find more information on the file description page. You are welcome to add comments to its entry at the discussion if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. — innotata 22:23, 6 August 2011 (UTC)
You wrote:
"Your insults
"Restoring previous formatting, removed by editor Montanabw, who has been asked on at least three previous occasions not to edit the talk-page contributions of others" This is bull. Only this one particular time have I EVER deliberately changed something you wrote, and here it was only formatting, not content. You have had some other talk page comments get scrambled up due to anything from edit conflicts to computer gremlins to vandals, but I personally have NEVER deliberately changed anything you have written (I've never changed what ANYONE has written!!!) and am very insulted that you think I have. I tried to explain myself previously to you about this, as well. I have really had it with your sheer meanness and constant insults. Maybe you have no idea how obnoxious and flat out cruel you sound online, but let me just say that I have had it with your attitude. Contribute on the issue, stick to the issue, argue the issue as much as you want, but can the insults. Oh, and how about writing some more actual content instead of criticizing everyone else's? It would be nice for you to be part of the solution instead of part of the problem of wikipedia's incivility. Montanabw(talk) 16:36, 10 August 2011 (UTC)"
Based on your suggestion, I looked at sources for this artist. I only find two decent refs: [16] and [17]. Do you know of more? I can't even find a year of birth, though it looks late 40s-early 50s. Right now I'm not sure how good the article would be. PumpkinSky talk 21:19, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
By the way, did you get to check out my article on the Schlechten bros?? Montanabw (talk) 22:14, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
Full disclosure: I have about five Dolak prints hanging around. So I can easily take an image of his artwork, but I think there is a problem with copyright on photos of works of a living artist. If you guys sort out THAT problem, I can provide actual images of some of his favs (including "Montana History Lesson" which I have as a signed print -- BEFORE they used it as the textbook cover too! ) Montanabw (talk) 22:30, 12 August 2011 (UTC)
It was recently suggested that WikiProject Montana might be inactive or semiactive and it might be beneficial to include it in the list of projects supported by WikiProject United States. I have started a discussion on the projects talk page soliciting the opinions of the members of the project if this project would be interested in being supported by WikiProject United States. Please feel free to comment on your opinions about this suggestion. -- Kumioko ( talk) 01:51, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
Hi! I'm the guy who called you names on my talk page several weeks ago. I actually stopped editing for a day or so because of the interaction. I disagreed with you not only on the merits, but because of what I saw as owney and bitey behaviors. I could have stayed in the talkpage discussion but I disconnected because of my rising anger at what I saw. I still read the discussion that way, but I'm not here to prolong that. So I wanted to say I'm sorry for getting too hot. I was wrong to take it up a notch. I made a misjudgement in using usernames. It was a lesson learned, and I'll not repeat that mistake again. Then I foolishly kept it up instead of focusing on the pagespace. Thank goodness for MONGO. That he showed us both equal respect in interjecting forced me to stop. (MONGO is one of my wikiheroes.) So I took a break and went back to helping newbies, which is an interesting hobby of mine. I deal with a bunch of newbs so I'm very sensitive to behaviors like the ones I described above. Anyway. I'm sorry. I was wrong in many ways. I hope you can let this bridge under the water, be merely water under the bridge, to use Ealdgyth's phrase. I'd like to join the discussion at Talk:Horses in warfare, but I wanted to visit you here first. It seemed the right thing to do. BusterD ( talk) 23:25, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for your latest edits with the new sections. That makes a lot more sense. :) Steven Walling • talk 18:55, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
I've begun working on a review for Warlander at DYK. Given your having already given this article a "once over," and with your experience in equine matters, it would be great if you could chime in on the reliability of source, etc., and in general whether you think the article is fit to be featured on the Main Page as part of DYK. The discussion template for this article is at Template:Did you know nominations/Warlander. Thanks. Cbl62 ( talk) 23:58, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
BusterD has given you
kittens! Kittens promote
WikiLove and hopefully these have made your day better. Kittens must be fed three times a day and will be your faithful companion forever! Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a kitten, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend.
Spread the goodness of kittens by adding {{ subst:Kitten}} to someone's talk page with a friendly message, or kittynap their kitten with {{ subst:Kittynap}}
BusterD ( talk) 09:31, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for your editorial assistance
This user helped promote Shackleford (horse) to good article status. |
-- TonyTheTiger ( T/ C/ BIO/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:FOUR) 20:10, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
Here's my newest one, an old translation of my fi Promising Article, Complex Vertebral Malformation. I DYKNOM'd it, care to take a look and see if my hook's alright? It's a genetic disorder, that's a hard topic for catchy hooks :/ Pitke ( talk) 17:30, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
What further cleanup does the article Kisber Felver need? There is nothing on the talk page about what needs further work. RJFJR ( talk) 19:31, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
- purebred Arabian rabicano. Ealdgyth - Talk 23:46, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
Ok, thanks ! Hippophagy is currently a delicate debate, there are events for its abolition throughout the country, as I suppose the end of the slaughtering of horses in the U.S. ? That's why we have found lots of sources easily about this subject. Even English speakers say it is a Franco-French debate, for exemple Alan D. Krinsky, Let them eat horsemeat ! : science, philanthropy, state, and the search for complete nutrition in nineteenth-century France, University of Wisconsin-Madison, 2001, 337 p., and Kari Weil, « They Eat Horses, Don't They ? Hippophagy and Frenchness », in Gastronomica, vol. 7, no 2, 2007, p. 44-51. So perhaps we can have Hippophagy, horse slaughter and horse meat article ? For the POV time, I've work this article because the food industrie spread a big lie, that French draft horses survive only because of meat, so "if you want to save draft horse, eat them", they say on T.V. (u__u) *remains quiet, Tsaag, remains quiet* Except that in France the production is well below consumption, which means that horses people eat are not the french ones (supporting evidence), but from Canada, Mexico and Poland ... people have a right to know where come from this meat. Oh, another thing with more fun, i think the galloping horse in your talk page is very-very cartoonesque, so... that's all folks ! -- Tsaag Valren ( talk) 17:05, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
You raise an interesting question, Pitke. We people in western civilization don't deal very well with death in any form, do we? We may consign animals to a horrible fate just because we cannot stomach the reality of taking personal responsibility. (I call it the "I don't want to watch Blackie die, so I'll send him to the auction sale and pretend he's going to find a forever home with some nice lady who wants to take care of my old, lame horse" phenomenon.) Of course, it takes a lot of land for a horse graveyard, (though you may be right that some people would pay for this) though where land is plentiful, people CAN pay a guy with a backhoe about $60-$70 an hour to dig a big hole on their own property, and having a disposal company haul away a euthanized large animal carcass to who-knows-where is sometimes about the same cost. A few people are in places where they can donate meat to a zoo, if the animal is dispatched with a bullet or capture bolt rather than with drugs. The problem is in areas, such as the east and west coasts, where land is expensive and animals in landfills are frowned upon. I had a friend on the east coast (Maryland) who was very conflicted about slaughter because euthanization and proper disposal of her horse would run her $1200.00!!! In contrast, she could sent it to the sale yard and maybe earn $500 or so. I had to admit that I could not judge her or make that decision for her, as I live where land is cheap and I can humanely euthanize and properly dispose of a horse for about $250.00 total (and be there when it happens). Now, as for you, the notion of small scale on-site animal rendering for cattle and other animals happens to be a small niche market in the USA, mostly amongst organic meat producers and those who otherwise want to guarantee that their meat animals are dispatched in a humane manner that they can oversee, yet still have saleable meat. People might have an interest in something like that. The one-way trip to Eastern Europe is precisely akin to the biggest problem with horse slaughter in the USA. (start with that human denial and refusal to take personal responsibiliy thing) Even when the US plants were open, for many years, they only existed in Texas and Illinois, with horses shipped cross-country (often in double-decker cattle trucks without adequate food or water) over long distances. (In Montana, the closest plant is the one in Calgary, Alberta anyway, so MT horses have been shipped to Canada for slaughter for a long time.) We also have issues with the "less than pleasant" conditions where horses are slaughtered, as nearly all facilities are geared toward cattle and the horses are only run through on certain days, via equipment, again, designed for cattle. Pretty ugly, and often not very humane. But then, it isn't fun and games for cows, either, I guess. This thing of humans being carnivores (or at least omnivores) is an interesting moral question when you realize that meat doesn't hatch on a styrofoam tray in the grocery store! Montanabw (talk) 20:34, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
Any comments to the comments by VioletRiga at Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of athletes from Montana/archive1? PumpkinSky talk 20:41, 7 September 2011 (UTC)
Hello fellow Montanan,
I noticed that you had made the last edit on the article listed in the subject line. However I found the article severely incomplete given the fact that their is on Highway 93 as you venture into BC the Tobacco Plains Band of the Ktunaxa Nation. It seems to reason, that those details were completely ignored in this article and since I am unable to edit them as I do not want to learn the markup, I thought instead to contact you. You may also see more information via this reference. http://www.tobaccoplains.org/aboutus.html.
Kindly, Infinite Grid Infinitegrid ( talk) 19:40, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
...one of the suggestions in GAR for Finnhorse was to include info on sire lines. I've been drafting away in my sandbox, and the Lohdutus section is about finished. Care to take a quick look? Pitke ( talk) 20:05, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
Hi, Why the revert? Eddaido ( talk) 00:01, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
Its done: Scratchgravel Hills. Next time your heading this way lets plan to meet up somewhere for coffee or something. Just needs a little leadtime to ensure I am in town. Just got from Pittsburgh last night.-- Mike Cline ( talk) 15:28, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
Meet the first " yellow roan" (or however the terminology goes) Finnhorse, miss Kadelma Kuu f. 2.6.2011. Now, excuse me while I dance. Pitke ( talk) 14:25, 9 September 2011 (UTC)
Why do you say it will be awhile? Are none of the roans eligible to be registered, or have they simply not yet passed the performance testing? Roan, being a dominant trait (like gray) will keep increasing faster in the population than would a more recessive condition(?). It will be interesting to see what develops. Montanabw (talk) 20:12, 13 September 2011 (UTC)
New article on ceramics prof at MSU-Bozeman, if you care to help. PumpkinSky talk 17:15, 15 October 2011 (UTC)
Ok, you said you'd help find me material to work on. What needs help? TaylorLane bore me 01:33, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
Just in case you didn't see them on my talk page, Rocket's second-lesson videos are uploaded! Bearing in mind that (a) this was only his second lesson, and (b) this is the baby who fractured my skull when he was an even smaller baby, we're soooooo pleased with him! One very, very smart li'l guy :D. And OK, yeah, good-looking too! (Adding: COI? POV-pushing? Never heard of it!)
Pesky ( talk … stalk!) 05:47, 20 October 2011 (UTC)
... for you and the stalkers :D
OCD | This user appreciates the huge benefits of having OCD |
my new essay. Pesky ( talk … stalk!) 13:12, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
I reverted the changes back into place... Hope you don't mind. There was a general agreement that the section was a little too big in the discussion I started at NPOV/N. Slatersteven was acting in concert with that. Cheers! Reso lute 23:42, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
Hi there... I just wanted to mention that I've added several images to the fiador knot article, one of which (shown right) might also be useful in the fiador (tack) article. The knots shown are based on diagrams found in Bruce Grant's 1972 Encyclopedia of Rawhide and Leather Braiding. Please also take a look at the changes I made to the description of how the knot is used -- the article originally read that it's the fiador knot itself that goes around the heel knot, but this seems incorrect (and not likely to work in any case.) Feel free to fix and/or let me know about anything that looks off.
BTW, I noticed that in the book mentioned above the bottle sling (aka Hackamore knot) is actually partially threaded through the bosal and heel knot, rather than just being around it. I left this detail out for now, but I wondered if this is just an idiosyncratic way that Bruce Grant shows it, or whether it's actually the correct/preferred way. I've been working on the bottle sling article today also, and may want to mention something about the threading method in there if it's actually the widespread/proper use of the knot when attaching to a bosal. If you don't know what I'm talking about I can provide more detail... -- Dfred ( talk) 23:28, 1 November 2011 (UTC)
Dear Montanabw: You have some incorrect information in this article which I have been trying to correct, and you keep deleting it. In the article you say that Abbas I Pasha's (1812-1854) eighteen-year old son who inherited his horses was Ibrahim Pasha of Egypt (1789- Nov. 10, 1848) - obviously that information is incorrect! How can someone who was born in 1789 be the eighteen-year old son of someone who was born in 1812? If you go and actually read the article on Ibrahim Pasha (1789-1848) you will quickly see that I am right on this issue. Ibrahim Pasha (1789-1848) was not Abbas I Pasha's son. The Ibrahim Pasha who inherited Abbas I Pasha's horses was Ibrahim Ilhami (al-Hami) Pasha (Jan. 3, 1836 - Sept. 9, 1860). This can easily be confirmed if you visit these 2 links:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~royalty/islamic/i743.html#I743
http://www.royalark.net/Egypt/egypt7.htm
Also, you say that if I have detailed information on some of the people mentioned in this article, that I should post it in the Wikipedia articles devoted to those people. I agree, but Ibrahim Ilhami (al-Hami) Pasha (1836-1860) and Ali Pasha Sherif's father, who died on Feb. 13, 1865, don't yet have Wikipedia articles devoted to them. Therefore, the only logical place to post this information, currently, is in your article on Ali Pasha Sherif.
Most of the information I have been adding to your article is fairly hard to track down, so if anyone is searching for this particular information and they find it in your article on Ali Pasha Sherif, I'm sure they will appreciate it. By adding this detailed information to your article, I am trying to make easy for people what would otherwise be a somewhat arduous research task for them. Believe me, I have spent many hours tracking down this information, and it isn't information which is easy to find and validate.
Most respectfully yours,
72.68.107.232 ( talk) 19:48, 7 November 2011 (UTC)Phil Kromer 72.68.107.232 ( talk) 19:48, 7 November 2011 (UTC) gibraltar37@gmail.com November 7, 2011
Dear Montanabw:
Hello!
I see in your Wikipedia article on Ali Pasha Sherif, that you recently made a link to the Ecole Militaire in Paris. This is an error. The Ecole Militaire is not the same institution as the Ecole Militaire Egyptienne. Ali Pasha Sherif attended the Ecole Militaire Egyptienne, not the Ecole Militaire.
The Ecole Militaire Egyptienne was a special school that Muhammad Ali Pasha (1769-1849) set up in Paris for the exclusive use of students that he personally approved and sent there. The school was in existence for only 5 years (1844-1849). After Muhammad Ali Pasha passed away in 1849, the school was quickly closed down by Abbas I Pasha who was the Governor of Egypt from 1848-1854.
There are other errors in this article which I have detected. The major remaining error is the confusion of Ali Pasha Sherif's father (who died on Feb. 13, 1865) with a man named Muhammad Sharif Pasha (Feb. 1826 - April 20, 1887). Muhammad Ali Pasha (1769-1849) and these other 2 men were all born at Kavala in northern Greece, which has led many people who are not careful in their research to assume that Ali Pasha Sherif's father and Muhammad Sharif Pasha (1826-1887) were the same person.
My research on this particular issue is still continuing, but following are the basic conclusions I have arrived at.
It was indeed Ali Pasha Sherif's father who was Governor of Damascus, Syria from November 1832 to some time in 1838. Since Muhammad Sharif Pasha wasn't born until 1826, he couldn't have been appointed Governor of Syria in 1832, since he would have only been 6 years old at the time of the appointment. Also, more than likely it was also Ali Pasha Sherif's father who was head of the Egyptian Financial Ministry in 1844, since Muhammad Sharif Pasha would only have been 18 years old at that time.
However, since Ali Pasha Sherif's father died in 1865, the Egyptian governmental positions that he is usually credited as holding in the 1870s and 1880s were actually held by Muhammad Sharif Pasha, who didn't die until 1887.
Another point well worth considering is the following.
It is known that Ali Pasha Sherif (1834-1897) had 2 brothers, namely Khalil Pasha Sherif (June 20, 1831 - January 12, 1879) and Osman. Khalil was a famous art collector and Ottoman diplomat. If you check the biographical and genealogical records available on Muhammad Sharif Pasha (1826-1887), you will find that he had a few sons, but that their first names were not Ali, Khalil and Osman. This is further proof that Ali Pasha Sherif's father and Muhammad Sharif Pasha were definitely not the same man.
Furthermore, the available records state the following.
"Muhammad Ali Pasha [1769-1849] brought El Sayed Muhammad Cherif [Ali Pasha Sherif's father], of Kawala [Kavala, a city in Macedonia, Greece] origin, to Egypt when he was 12 years old, and obtained admittance for him into the school at Khanka [El-Khanka, a city 12 miles northeast of Cairo], where all the sons of the Pashas and Princes were educated. He filled many posts in the Egyptian government during the reign of Muhammad Ali Pasha under the name El Sayed Mohamed Cherif Pacha El Kebir. He was made Wali (Governor) of all Arabia, including Lebanon and Syria."
According to the historical records, Muhammad Ali Pasha (1769-1849) was born in Kavala (Cavalla), Macedonia, Greece, and first journeyed to Egypt in 1799 (when he was about 30 years old) as an officer in the Ottoman expeditionary force that was defeated by the French at Abu Kir in July, 1799. It is quite possible that when Muhammad Ali Pasha left Kavala for Egypt in 1799, he took 12-year old El Sayed Muhammad Cherif with him. If that was indeed the case, then we can calculate that if El Sayed Muhammad Cherif was 12 years old in 1799, he was born around the year 1787. This is another proof that El Sayed Muhammad Cherif and Muhammad Sharif Pasha were not the same person, since Muhammad Sharif Pasha wasn't born until 1826 - approximately 39 years after the birth of Ali Pasha Sherif's father.
I plan to add some documentation to your article, in substantiation of the statements made above, as time permits. Plus, I am still conducting research in order to make sure that I have reached the right conclusions on these particular points. This is very much a work in progress.
Sincerely yours,
72.68.107.232 ( talk) 12:30, 9 November 2011 (UTC)Phil Kromer 72.68.107.232 ( talk) 12:30, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
gibraltar37@gmail.com November 9, 2011
--- I'll fix the link. What we desperately need here are the actual source citations for the "historical records" you are putting in above. I'm not questioning what you are saying, only that we have to have information on the actual source documents (read WP:CITE, WP:V, and {[WP:RS]] to see what I'm talking about. Wikipedia really needs to have the actual source material cited, if we can do so) I'm also going to move this over to the talk page for the article so it can be available to anyone else working on it. Montanabw (talk) 15:53, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
Hi Montanabw, You proposed me a friendly hand on Mike Cline's talk page, so I would be very glad to accept your offer! I also don't have any particular link with Buddhism, but I found very disturbing the way a few contributors are systematically moving and removing content from the English WP pages.
A specific issue is the non-respect of the naming conventions, which gives a primary position to the conventional English spelling for foreign-language names (in that particular case Tibetan). It is very positive when these editors are adding Chinese and/or Tibetan alternative spellings, the problem is that by doing so they also systematically delete or move to a less prominent position the traditional English spelling. Beside the lack of respect for English language and for the work of previous editors, they also lower the quality of WP pages and make a search for these names more difficult.
I've spent a bit of time over the past few days monitoring the activities of Quigley and 虞海, but I don't have the required IT skills to revert all the controversial edits and won't have the time in future to permanently monitor it. A "friendly" hand will therefore be more than appreciated.-- Pseudois ( talk) 06:48, 12 November 2011 (UTC)-- Pseudois ( talk) 06:52, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
I just created this. Care to try to add to it? I can't find much on it. PumpkinSky talk 13:28, 13 November 2011 (UTC)
Yeah [20] [21]. I removed their article talk rant but I hate to alter user talk if I can help it, so I let that slide for a few hours. Came back just now with the intention of collapsing it with a header including "something about the best way to cook a steak". Your approach was likely the better one, thanks for addressing it before I had to. Regards. Franamax ( talk) 01:35, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
For God's sake, would you please stop deleting 2/3 of the Missoula, Montana page. You've done it three times now. Just leave a note and someone competent can remove the knitpicky items you seem to be obsessed with. Next time I'll just report it as vandalism. Dsetay ( talk) 04:09, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
Welcome to Wikipedia. Everyone is welcome to contribute to the encyclopedia, but when you add or change content, as you did to the article Menorquín horse, please cite a reliable source for your addition. This helps maintain our policy of verifiability. See Wikipedia:Citing sources for how to cite sources, and the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. Thank you. Justlettersandnumbers ( talk) 23:11, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
Hi. I had created the account ISPMB Horses as an organization so I could write or suggest an article about them. Found out from you and Dragonflysixtyseven that I went about it wrong. I created a new account "Equus Ferus" per Dragonfly's suggestion. I am an individual who has mustangs and volunteers for horse rescues. I just started volunteering for ISPMB. I want to submit an article about them since ISPMB the the organization that was started by Velma Johnston (Wild Horse Annie) and there is an article about her. I have also written to Dragonflysixtyseven for help since I am very new and have not done this before. Although I have read how to do this in Wikipedia, I can't seem to figure it out. Thank you for any help or suggestions. Equus Ferus ( talk) 17:55, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
Thank you for the information. I will read and see what I can come up with. Once I have a rough outline, how can I have someone (you) review it for me to see if it is neutral? Equus Ferus ( talk) 22:43, 17 November 2011 (UTC)
I'd like to do an article on the Yogo sapphire. Do you have or can you get one or more free images of them? I can't find any. I have, or perhaps used to have, a Yogo mounted in white gold, but I'll be darned if I can find it. PumpkinSky talk 22:32, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
I've moved my Yogo sandbox to mainspace. Posting to Montanabw's and Tim1965's talk pages. A few thoughts:
Coolness! Will report there! Yessir! Montanabw (talk) 05:20, 7 November 2011 (UTC)
I forgot to ping you. I have accepted the review and it is already under way.-- TonyTheTiger ( T/ C/ BIO/ WP:CHICAGO/ WP:FOUR) 03:48, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
Thanks MT BW! See you two got it done after I dozed off. PumpkinSky talk 13:58, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
OK, I have maybe come up with a way forward, and in the spirit of WP:BOLD have created it. The page is at equestrian facility and I would intend it to replace stable, livery yard and other similar small articles. These article are all stubby and small at the moment (and unlikely to ever become long enough or good enough on their own), and cross over with each other (as many stables also have a rising school, equestrian centre etc.), so the idea is to cover them all in one place, like we do with horse care.
Now i haven't finished - there are still other sections to add, but i concentrated on the stabling section first, where i've tried as hard as possible to keep it international, with explanation of the relevant terms where I can.
However, whilst I'm working, I know that you'll have valuable input so I would be grateful if you could have a look. Once it is in a reasonable state, I would then suggest redirecting the other articles to this single page (which is why livery yard, stable etc. are not in-line linked).
Regards, OwainDavies ( about)( talk) edited at 19:36, 14 November 2011 (UTC)
Probably not stable vices, as that is more a behavior/medical issue than management. But see also horse management. We also have pen (enclosure) and stuff like paddock, where the US and UK terms have widely varying meanings. "Yard" would not work at all because in US English, that's what your kids play in. We might be stuck with equestrian facility, much as I loathe the title, I can't think of one better. Montanabw (talk) 21:10, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
See T:DYK/Q. Yogo sapphire is in queue 1 and should appear as the lead dyk with photo at 11am today, eastern US time. I think this is the best new article I've ever worked on and truly appreciate all the help. PumpkinSky talk 10:55, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
OK, I've listed this for GA. It's the only one in it's category. Any help would be appreciated. We should look at its current state with GA-level in mind. I don't have any experience to speak of at this level, so help would be great. I think we need to expand the lead. PumpkinSky talk 20:03, 24 November 2011 (UTC)
BS going on at the Yogo GAC. PumpkinSky talk 04:43, 3 December 2011 (UTC)
Not only does this sound barbaric and painful, but idiotic. PumpkinSky talk 01:57, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
Hi Montanabw, consider spending a minute on the article to rephrase and/or clarify that "self-declared" stuff. If you can do that, the whole edit war will be over very quickly. BTW, the IP editor has been warned (by another editor) for edit-warring, but you are guilty of the same infraction, of course (that I may agree on the content is irrelevant). Thanks, and happy days, Drmies ( talk) 18:20, 5 December 2011 (UTC)