May 29th 2005 to July 2nd 9th
Archieved 13:07 (local EDST) 6 July 2005
Merged in contents from the ill-fated archive02 (IE6 borwser edit problem)
Fra
nkB 18:25, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
refs:
Harry the Magician was performing on a cruise ship in the Caribbean. The pay was lousy, but the audience changed weekly, so he could do the same tricks over and over.
There was just one problem: The captain's parrot saw the shows every week and began to understand the tricks. So in the middle of the show, the parrot would shout:
'Look, it's not the same hat!'
Two weeks later, the ship sank. Harry saved himself by clinging to a piece of wood ... with the parrot perched on the other end.
Magician and parrot stared at each other with hatred for several days, but did not utter a single word.
After a week the parrot finally said: 'Okay, I give up. What did you do with the boat?'
Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: 1
I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~~~. Four tildes (~~~~) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! -- Flcelloguy|| talk Flcelloguy 17:31, 29 May 2005 (UTC)
Hi, I believe that the pages have a stylesheet for printing, so they should print off in a "printer-friendly" format, especially if you have a newer version of Internet Explorer or Firefox. Give it a try and see if it works for you. JYolkowski // talk 20:31, 29 May 2005 (UTC)
Hi, and welcome to Wikipedia from me too! I got your e-mail with the questions about the secrets of Wikipedia, I'll see if I can ncover some of it here.
First, Wikipedia is much more of a community than someone just reading the articles on it would realize. I only discovered the community behind the encyclopedia because my first article got listed for deletion! There are a number of users here keeping a watch of what is being done, and a lot of discussions and debates taking place "behind the scenes".
Alright: how things get picked up so quickly by the congnizati of Wiki
How does something get nominated/placed on the VfD? {{delete}}??? Or a process involving at least one other in initial agreement?
What are the attention and cleanup tags?
Hope that helped answer some of the questions! Oh, and if you want to give a message to somebody, it is more common to use the users' talkpages (mine is at User talk:Sjakkalle rather than e-mail, in part because not all users sign on with an e-mail address. Good luck!. Sjakkalle 10:47, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Hi again! The page which you get when you click on my signature is the so-called user page. You actually have one too, even though it has not been created yet, it is located at the top of the page, furthest to the left. (At the moment it is red since it has not been created yet). The userpage is yours to edit, and people are quite liberal and tolerant abount what you put on it. See Wikipedia:User pages.
Next to the userpage is a user-talkpage, you are reading your user-talkpage now. My talkpage is at User talk:Sjakkalle. In general, you should leave messages on the user's talkpage, and not the user page. (In general, refrain from editing other userpages than your own unless it is to correct typos or to revert vandalism, users tend to be rather touchy about their own userpage). When you edit the talkpage however, the user you are trying to contact will quickly be alerted by an orange box saying that "You have new messages", and if logged in, may give you a quick reply. Some people have customised their signatures to provide a link to their talk-page, but yours truly is truly a lazy user and hasn't.
You may have noticed that all the pages, articles, Wikipedia project pages, userpages, and so on, have a discussion tab on them. Much of the discussion "behind the scenes" takes place on them, and they are useful for posing questions or debating issues without editing the page itself. Sjakkalle 14:08, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
It has been discussed. There was once a poll about 11 ways to expand the criteria for speedy deletion. Three of the proposals passed, eight failed, vanity being one of them although 44% of people wanted it listed as a criterion. Take a look at Wikipedia:Proposal_to_expand_WP:CSD for the entire poll.
Vanity failed primarily because it is somewhat subjective what is vanity. Sometimes the subject may be more notable than it seems, and many people prefer to see ten blatant vanity cases go through VfD and get it deleted the "long" way, in order to save the one article which actually is about a notable person.
By the way, got a new signature now, this is the first time I'm really using it! Sjakkalle ( Check!) 14:38, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
And another "Welcome to Wikipedia, hope you stick around and contribute." I'd just like to reinforce Sjakkalle's suggestion that Wikipedia communication between users should be conducted via "Talk pages" a.k.a. "Discussion pages" rather than via email. It's considered better wikiquette. And I realize that this is an utterly minor, niggling, nit-picking point, totally my personal opinion that you are completely welcome to ignore, but I find it kind of disconcerting when you refer to an article as an "arty." Maybe because the only other use I've seen of the word "arty" as an abbreviation refers to Artillery. In any case, welcome. Hope to see you around. Soundguy99 16:16, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
In reply to your reply (numbered just so I can keep track of my own thoughts):
Hope this all helps. Any other questions, feel free to get in touch on my Talk page. Soundguy99 03:30, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Hi, I'm sorry, I didn't answer your question about Wing Commander. The reason is simply that I don't know how it relates to Privateer. Sjakkalle (Check!) 14:21, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Oh but yes, the quote is correct [1]. R adiant _* 14:48, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)
I'll have a look at it. Cheers. -- BD2412 talk 02:46, 2005 Jun 10 (UTC)
I've always found that a good way to get advice on articles on a particular subject matter is to look in the histories for editors who have made a lot of edits to articles in that area. -- BD2412 talk 12:46, 2005 Jun 10 (UTC)
Hi there! RFA is WP:RFA, or requests for adminship. After a recent vote, I was made an admin with a rather large amount of votes (#4 in the ranking, not that anybody would care about that). So that's why. Oh and btw I was sending people to Pie, not Pie. :) Oh, and I'll remove some old issues from my talk page some time soon. R adiant _>|< 13:01, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for your comment. However, I would appreciate if you could give a map that specifically tells the location of the Tsushima Strait, for giving wrong maps can do more harm than good as wrong Maps can give wrong information. Feel free to add a new map that clearly tells the location of the Tsushima Strait, but I will have to remove the old map, for it seems to tell the location of the Tsushima Islands than the strait itself, I'm afraid.
Mr Tan 05:46, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Yes, sure, go ahead and add a map, please, but not the previous one for I'm afraid that that is misleading, and I'm a person who is very picky about maps. I apologise for any anger caused, but I'm happy if you can reconstuct a new map which specifically tells about the location of the strait. I am very grateful about your concern but anyway, I will be tell you when I really need help. I am sorry to remove the legend, however, for I believe that the legends goes with the map, which I have to remove it. Please, add a new map, in any orientation you like, se long it specifies the location of the Strait. Thanks!
Mr Tan 11:45, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
But if I revert back, the old map will confuse readers who read the page within that time span before we put a new one! Anyway, I can make a new map for you, but that will be a bit rudimentary. Unless you have the appropriate map-making software, if the thing is not going to be permanent, or at least long-term, then a revert or putting up a rudimentary map will cause more harm than good.
Mr Tan 13:39, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
No, no, are you trying to talk about this map
right] right?
No, some people who does not have a good anaticyal mind may get coinfused.
To me, the location of the Tsushima Strait and the islands are close, but the problem with this map is that it does not show specifically the location of the Strait. And a map that matches with my description is what I want.
Mr Tan 15:04, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Hi Fabartus!
The merge tags on the Port Arthur articles were taken off some weeks ago. When added the merge-tags I thought they were about the same thing, but I was mistaken that time. Sjakkalle (Check!) 06:28, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Hi Frank! Welcome to Wikipedia. I've received your message; I'll surely reply, but give me some time. I'll page you after a few hours time. = Nichalp ( Talk)= 15:25, Jun 13, 2005 (UTC)
But I guess wrong, thinking it was Kipling. Sigh! Anyway, thought I'd say "Howdy". I just had a run in with Mr Tan over something almost trivial and saw your input on the RfC page. I posted the discussion there if you care on Tsushima Strait . Here are quick links My talk (Article 11) and His Talk (Article 85). Reverting will probably escallate the situation, so I left that for another. Any advice on cutting this gordian knot, et al would be appreciated. Private comments on email are fine.
I had left a message for you, but Mr Tan removed it. It was:
He's also insisting on controversial edits at Tsushima islands; I'm out of reverts, so there's nothing that I can do, but if you'd care to look at them to see what you think, please do.
I'm not sure about requests for map support — I'll ask around. Wikipedia:Maps might be a good place to start, though. Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 19:26, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Noo...Sorry, I didn't mean it. It must be an edit conflict that I wasn't aware, looking at the time stated.
Mr Tan 02:41, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I need your co-operation--you reverted first, but I counter revert to tell you to tell you to make the mark and stop reverting, so that we can settle down to discuss. But you have an attitude of forcing people to make the mark every time, yet it is your doubts that you want to inquire. That is rude.
Also, why ask for a revert if you have no questions or doubts on Talk:Tsushima Islands? You say that "Your attitude at the moment seems to be that you'll simply make the same wholesale edit repeatedly, changing parts of it once the rel;evant mistakes have been pointed out at least two or three times. That's not a productive, nor a collaborative approach.", but your attitude match the above description stated. All I want is attention, but how come simply cannot get the facts right into one's mind? If you object, say so directly. Don't blast it at other people in anyway you like.
Mr Tan 02:51, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Very good, for your new map. Image:TsuShima Strait.png
Mr Tan 03:10, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
You'll have to get that copyright statement off the map. Try cropping the image and uploading the image under the same file name. = Nichalp ( Talk)= 05:55, Jun 14, 2005 (UTC)
The new one is good. You would have to upload over the old one; else we'll have duplicates. After you upload you will be asked to save over the old or cancel. Select the first option. Colouring the sea blue in the old map (used to locate the island) will also help. I'd prefer that you do not upload it here to the English wikipedia. Since you're off to bed I won't elaborate "till the sun rises your side"; will tell u later why. Regards, :) = Nichalp ( Talk)= 06:28, Jun 14, 2005 (UTC)
I would like you to sign up for Wikimedia commons:, a sister concern of the the English wikipedia. The Wikimedia Commons is a project that provides a central repository for free images, music, sound & video clips and, possibly, texts and spoken texts, used in pages of any Wikimedia project. Unlike images uploaded on other projects, images on Commons can be embedded on pages of all Wikimedia projects.
I also see you copying and pasting the absolute link to an article. There's no need for such a cumbersome procedure. Just copy the title of the page (just above the text: From wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), and wikify it (add the [[ ]]). If you find it interesting I'll give you a few more tips on the images. Regards, = Nichalp ( Talk)= 06:53, Jun 14, 2005 (UTC)
Hey, what is the big fuss, Mr Bartus? I only made two reverts, and explained that bad maps can be misleading. Now you have corrected them, Thanks. But what is the matter? I am satisfied, you are satisfied. Why spur the big fuss? And don't be too harsh. I am at your son's age--fourteen to fifteen, approximately. Thanks.
Mr Tan 13:10, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC) My response
And to some others involved
I do not like people treating me as dirt. If you're going to insult at me, I will request for arbitration againts you. Really, I do not like it when people act like they own Wikipedia and try to order people to do things. And what's wrong if I'm a kid? I have straight A's in English in school. Mr Tan 12:46, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for your comforting message, but I feel a bit strange for I could not remember posting the above message, and the message isn't written by me at all when I came in here! Please check your talk page history. I suspect that something is fishy going around here. Thanks.
Mr Tan 13:26, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
It seems that somebody is inpersonating me, after checking its page history. The person is User:Mr. Tan, not User:Mr Tan, if you notice that there is a extra full stop.
Anyway, I thank you for your offer. I am willing and eager to meet Jon and develop a good wikifriendship on wikipedia, moreover with a person who has a better command of English of my age. I will try to improve my English, and have scored well in my English tests, but the attitude of Singaporeans' English has really made me "one eye among the blind" case, for my English is at most somewhat better than the rest of the Singaporeans, who has some traits of Singlish in their English. I will try, to use proper British English, if I can--I"ll try. Anyway, I extend my thanks again, Mr Bartus.
Mr Tan 13:40, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
= Nichalp ( Talk)= 06:19, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)
Sorry not to have replied sooner; it's the end of term, and I'm harrassed, and only just able to keep up with my editing (well, not really able, in fact). I'll reply properly tomorrow. Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 08:47, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I cannot understand why User:Nanshu move this article back to Island--despite the description of its history that it is two seperate islands. Mr Tan 16:22, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Anyway, I have also notified User:Mel Etitis concerning this issue. Thanks. Mr Tan 16:42, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
User/fabartus/battles/Battle_of_the_Nile (in article namespace) has been moved to User:Fabartus/battles/Battle_of_the_Nile (user namespace). I deleted the resulting redirect. -- User:Docu
You have given a list of books which I presume is targeting at the Tsushima Islands project. I have searched for books concerning Tsushima in libraries and bookshops in Singapore and Johor Bahru, but I would sincerely say that I cannot find any.
Also, I do not have sufficient time to do all these things because I believe that our goal on wikipedia is merely for the sake of satisfaction, not on serious work. However, meanwhile, I will try to search for more internet sources, and I will be happy to accept any sources concerning this Tsushima project.
Mr Tan 02:37, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Do you think I did not make an effort to conduct a search for book sources? I do, notably Kinokuniya in Orchard Road, but I what I am saying is my sincere heart. I just cannot find sources on Tsushima. The problem for me to cut down on my computer time is one reason: I need to study and work hard for my academic results.
I agree that I must have responsibility in what I do--I will finish up this matter as soon as possible, not by force, but rather through a series of explanations and source citings. My purpose to come to wikipedia has its main purpose: "To contribute for returning from what you take from people"., but the pressure really presses me down---
Think about theprinciple of giving---that is my aim on wikipedia. However, if I give and I get something bad in return--hostility, and scolding from Mel Etiits and Bell, doing nothing in the end in Zanskar, I feel that I have no reason to be on wiki.
I"ll just try my best--I cannot say further. Mr Tan 03:42, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
For the whale over fishing, my sources came from here: [2], [3], [4].
For the land area, please see the Japanese version of Iki Island or here [5].
Thanks. Mr Tan 04:14, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I"ll try, but I'm afraid that most of the sources on Iki Island are in Japanese and I have only a smattering knowledge of Japanese. If you can give some information as well, or enhance the article, I will be happy to accept your contributions. Thanks. Mr Tan 04:37, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Hi Fab. You can easily revert an Edit you do not like by going to the History Page, select the Version you favour, put it in Edit mode, and Save (5 seconds flat). That's called "Reverting an Edit", and you don't have to throw rude language around. PHG 09:47, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Hello! I'm still not quite with it (there's a little more teaching next week, held over from term, and last night's Schools Dinner for Maths and Maths & Philosophy was extremely convivial, and went on rather late). On the plural/singular matter, though, I've left a comment at the Talk page; I'd be interested in your reactions.
Doing very long edits can be dangerous, especially when the article is prone to frequent editing; shorter bursts are safer. I've often wasted time making a long series of edits, only to save and find that someone else has either beaten me to it or edited in such a way that my edits would have to be painstakingly inserted into the text again. Things would be so much easier if we each had our own Wikipedia... Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 12:05, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
It took me a while to see what was going on. If you think you can better divide into one vote on the Island/Islands question (on which I have no opinion), and one vote on Tsushima, please do.
As for my page: A blank User Page means my links on my watchlist are red, and therefore findable. Since I'm not sure what to say about myself anyway, I leave it. Septentrionalis 18:18, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I would appreciate if you can reply in contrast to my requests on Talk:Tsushima Strait. Thanks. Mr Tan 13:57, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
He is clearly addicted to wikipedia; this will overturn his life, but I do not want to know or care. I"ll see to the case of Tsushima Islands, and I"ll only get myself involved when absolutely necessary. For now, I will not contribute anymore information to the article temporarily.
Mr Tan 17:33, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I"ll hope that your previous message is merely a plain grammar lesson. I am saying what I mean in the previous comment--I do not want to interfere with Mel Etitis in anyway, for I have no reason and purpose by doing so! Anyway, thanks for your notes, I will read them soon, and I will be happy to accept more. I hope that it is British English, but I presume you are American---the notes seems to be a bit confusing as it uses American English grammar which I am not familiar.
Mr Tan 18:18, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Hi, sorry for not getting back to you sooner; I missed your initial post in a flurry of other people posting to my talk page.
Regarding the U.S. customary units, did you find U.S. customary units? That sounds like what you might be looking for.
There isn't any hard and fast rule as to whether to reply to an existing topic or create a new one on the talk page. Generally if discussion is stale, I find that it makes sense to create a new headline. On the other hand, if discussion on a topic is still active, it doesn't make sense to split it up unnecessarily.
Regarding the railways, if they are the same thing, then I would agree that it does make sense to merge. However, if they're not, then there may be advantages and disadvantages to merging. It might be worth a query on Talk:China Far East Railway and Talk:Manchurian Railway to see whether people think that the two articles should be merged into one.
For information on naming conventions, see Wikipedia:Naming conventions. Generally, older names are handled by creating a redirect to the page in question and mentioning the other names in the text. See for example the lead paragraph of China Far East Railway.
I'm not entirely sure I personally agree with the indirection idea, but it might have potential. You might want to mention it on Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals) and see what others think.
Thanks, JYolkowski // talk 21:13, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for the guidance. I'll see what I can do about formulating my concerns on the historic names lossage for a pump presentation, but I want to wait until after I EDIT or create the various RJ-W battles. There are several (6 or 7) on loan to my library from other networked branches, and I'm fairly sure they are not renewable when borrowed across the library network this way. The clock is ticking, and the weather has improved after a four day rain. The yard and garden and pool all call. Hear them? Fraaaannnnk! ttfn [[User:Fabartus| User:fabartus || TalktoMe]] 22:39, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
To which article are you referring? -- Jonel | Speak 01:35, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Hi -- Thanks for your support on the Bryce Harrington article. I actually have already given my "pro" argument on the vote for deletion page. I've tried contacting a few people who have edited the Inkscape article recently to give them a heads up on the vfd. I don't think the idea of deleting it had anything to do with its length, just that they don't consider him notable enough. -- Bcrowell 03:44, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I would appreciate if you can help me (and Mel Etitis) concerning an article move by some Wikipedia Japanese Users. Thanks. Mr Tan 11:08, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
The message was concerning a page move--The Japanese users says that they want to move the article to Tsushima Island because the Japanese government recognizes it as an island, but I opposed because it was geographically two seperate islands today, so I need you to cast a vote and state your advise on the move.
I am already trying to take a retreat from wikipedia--to reduce stress and to prepare for the end of the school holidays. Tan
I noticed that you added an inuse template. In the past, User:Mel Etitis and User:JMBell strongly protested the use of this template while was editing Wee Kim Wee/temp, and it was blocked because of this.
While they accuse me that I was doing this to prevent others from editing, I stated that this was to discourage, not stop people from editing.
If there is no harm putting this template up if a person genuinely want to work on a specific article, can you please give a statement concerning this past issue? Your comment is greatly appreciated. Mr Tan 03:29, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
(This is an interleaved communication. Originated here with my responses ending his original content, then posted back to him.)
Hope it's enough to stabilize the text for copy editting! Now, how do we get M/m Tan to go elsewhere? Any further thoughts? I'd hate to ban him totally, as I do believe that energy can be lead into making fruitful contributions — especially in new artys of immature nature. If you see User_Talk:Mr Tan, you'll see I've left several novelettes of oil on troubled waters that he seems to be ingesting slowly.
Looks like my 'Signature' needs further adjustment! Don't understand where the bold is comming from. fab:13:27 local
I understand your vote to be a conditional Yes on the compromise move to Tsushima and am moving it to consolidate the vote on the compromise in one place. If I have misunderstood you, please correct. Septentrionalis 16:50, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I am actually very busy as well--honestly, this is the last week of my one-month Singaporean school holidays, and I have became a wikiholic over the months and years. Honestly, I had tremendous anxiety concerning Tsushima, and I couldn't control myself, for I want to put down this matter as fast as possible in order to settle myself down for school. Anyway, I"ll try to cut them down unless absolutely necessary--Thanks, and good luck. Mr Tan 11:56, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Hi Frank, just a short note - your signature is somewhat broken; my guess is that you should just enter the following into the signature box in Preferences:
FrankB]] || [[User talk:Fabartus|TalktoMe
The "[[User:Fabartus|" prefix and the two brackets at the end are added automatically.
That's all. I've written some things on the Tsushima Islands talk page; otherwise, I'm still remaining neutral. Cheers - JM Bell ° 13:16, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Hi. The purpose of the edit [6] was not to criticize Mel Etitis, of course! I clarified that at the start. I eplained the background of the current situation for newcomers but that was not the point. The focus of my message was in the last two paragraphs. Actually I made a proposal for the future. I'm not interested in what Mel Etitis does in the articles I don't edit, and I'd like to minimize my involvement in wikipolitics. -- Nanshu 14:29, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Thankyou very very much for your posting on my talk. That clarifys matters greatly, especially the pics. The matter was much muddled, as you will see if you choose to visit the LONG LONG talk page, but your cogent comments are a breath of fresh air, and I'm going to take the liberty of taking them 'AS IS' and posting them (way down) into the MOVE DISCUSSION.
Hi Frank - sorry I'm late replying. I haven't read all the arguments yet -this is just a quick note. I just noticed your message on my talk page and it's almost one o'clock in the night over here. Ignore this message if it's too late.
It's not surprising that people don't agree on this issue - a quick google search revealed that the Columbia Encyclopedia and the Britannica don't agree on whether Tsushima is two islands or one island (although the Britannica seems outdated). The minor surrounding islands shouldn't be a problem - for example, most people would consider Guam an island, when it actually has at least one minor island nearby.
The way I see it, both opinions have their strong points. You can't deny that Tsushima is composed of many different islands, even without the north/south island thing. On the other hand, Japanese people usually treat and call Tsushima one island, which seems to be reflected in the various references people have been showing.
I'm speculating here, but I think there are two reasons the Japanese call Tsushima an island:
If I had to choose between Tsushima Islands and Tsushima Island right now, I would probably give very weak support to Tsushima Island, because it's less surprising to someone who has general knowledge of Tsushima (who would probably either be Japanese, or have lived in Japan). For example, the author of a book I recently translated calls Tsushima an island (the author is an American missionary to Japan). Both titles are correct in their own way, so the principle of least surprise should apply - which is unfortunately, very difficult to determine.
That said, the article title really shouldn't matter, because the article will be talking about the same group of islands regardless of the title. The best compromise may be to name the article Tsushima. I'd rather have an article with a title that's the result of a compromise than an endless, unconstructive edit war.
You might want to call for help on the Japanese Wikipedians' Notice Board. The following are pictures of the canal, to give you an idea of what people are talking about.
I'll sleep for now and give this issue some thought. Atsi Otani 16:38, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Upon doublechecking, Tsushima Maru is a stub; Tsushima Yuko is not marked as a stub, but they are both quite short. {{seealso}} is a convenient form for unconnected uses of a word, but in this case, something of the form Tsushima lies in the Straits of Tsushima, in which the Battle of Tsushima was fought seems more appropriate. Septentrionalis 14:32, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for your message, Mr Bartus. Meanwhile I need to sort out my thoughts about Tsushima. Mr Tan 07:15, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I contrast to your message, I would like to say that my English has its own loopholes, and I apologise for my mistakes. I will be happy if you can help me correct them gramatically, but I will find time time do my part as well.
Concerning this voting issue, I won't say that voting "support" is wrong, because the point of view of one person can differ, and voting is where the person's freedom of speech is permitted---I bear no hatred of you just because you voted "support", so long if there are no cases of outright criticisms on the person himself. I respect your decision to vote.
However, I would be happy if you do allow me to put in a word concerning your vote – your vote for the support has a devastating effect on your contributions in respect to the fact that your mention of how Tsushima is seperated between 1895 and 1905. Your mention of Tsushima as "two islands" in that paragraph certainly contradicts with your "support" vote for moving the page to Tsushima Island", and this will make people wonder what are you talking about, describing how Tsushima is seperated on one hand, and supporting the move on the other hand!
Also, I would appreciate if you can have a look at Mr Otani's comment--He stated that there are several other islands around the two islands--even the island is joined, it would be ridiculous to say "Tsushima Island". And from my viewpoint, I would certainly advise you to vote oppose. However, your comment is greatly appreciated. Mr Tan 13:26, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Both of us have made a statement on the Talk page: the article stands as Ultramarine left it. Feel free to advise (and if you find his arguments justified, please explain them to me). Septentrionalis 16:47, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Mel looked briefly, and counseled Ultramarine to read the policy on POV. Septentrionalis 22:13, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Customs rules communications? Absolutely wrong. How about Jurong Island, which was a man-made reclaimed island, with its origins from seven natural, seperate islands and part of the Straits of Singapore? Why isn't it called Jurong Islands, or the original name of the original seven islands? Mr Tan 06:36, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I am sorry, but I cannot make out what sort of fairy tale you are talking about. Though I may be young, but wikipedia is a place that does not encourage such story-telling. Please get to the point on my statement: WHAT WE ARE TALKING IS THE PRESENT STATE OF TSUSHIMA. BE IT DIVIDED BY AN INCH, OR HUNDREDS OF KILOMETRES, SO LONG THAT THERE IS NO POINT OF PHYSICAL CONTACT BETWEEN THE TWO REGIONS OF LAND THEY ARE CONSIDERED TWO SEPERATE ISLANDS. AND I HAVE ALREADY ADVISED YOU TO LOOK UP Jurong Island to compare with Tsushima! Mr Tan 15:51, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for your message. I was a in a bad mood, so I apologise if I maybe rude, but I honestly I do not like you to call me "Tan emperor", for I would prefered to be addressed as Mr Tan, or Tan. I have no objections to your teachings, but I do not like to be given funny names.
For now, I am in a grave problem. I have quarantined the Korean infobox temporarily, and offered to discuss with Ypacarai (I have my comments in Talk:Tsushima Islands, but he seems to take a hard stance on this matter. What I need is he himself to discuss the matter with me, but he is not willing to give me sufficient explanations, and when I answered back to his rebuttals, he simply ignored me. But his discussions and explanations are simply not sufficient for his actions, and he chose to become a bull on this matter.
I would greatly appreciate if you could stop his relentless reverts, for I find it extremely difficult to bring him to his attention to discuss on his objections. Cheers, Mr Bartus! Mr Tan 10:02, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
And obey all other advices of prof. Mel and Fabartus, or any other respectable wikipedians. -- Ypacaraí 11:48, 2005 Jun 24 (UTC)
I am afraid that I don't understand your demand to me exaxtly, because I am new to wikipedia and I don't know datails of the wiki system. If I do it by myself, I will bring another mistakes, I think. So, I would appriciate it if you could kindly do it first. Of course I know you are busy, so rough correction is enough. I shall follow it.
My intention of putting my comments to you is just to show facts about canals to you and other wikipedians. There are no other intentions.
If you have no time to do, please contact to me. I will try by myself. Thank you. Baru 17:13, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Thank you for modifying the layout. And I apologize for bothering you. Baru 00:35, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
The article was moved to "Tsushima Island", with no agreement, and Mr Tan asked me to move it back. I could see no grounds not to, so I did, and asked for discussion. Nanshu moved it again, and I reverted, again asking for discussion (and ensuring that he couldn't just Move it again). Nanshu then asked for the article to be moved on the requests page, without mentioning this on the articles's Talk page. Since then he's insisted on chaninging the text in line with his desired title, only stoppiing when he was threatened with being blocked from editing. To be honest, his behaviour has been underhand at best.
Part of the problem is his insistence on adding comments to long-dead discussions in the middle of a long Talk page, while many people are posting to a new discussion at the bottom of the page, and then becoming abusive when (unsurprisingly) his comment isn't noticed.
I genuinely wish that I'd never become involved in these pages, and with Mr Tan, Nanshu, and one or two others, but I can't walk away from it now — the mess that they manage to make is astonishing — left to their own devices I shudder to think what would happen.
My request for arbitration against Mr Tan isn't gone and forgotten; it's just that the end of term (especially as it was a Finals term) was very hectic. Things are still winding down, in fact, with College business lingering until the end of the month, but I'll be putting the request together properly over the next week or so. My feeling is that, though he swings between being absolutely manic and appalling to being merely irritating, he's not getting any better in general. Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 09:40, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
In order to use characters that have a special Wiki-mark-up significance, stick <nowiki> ... </nowiki> (round them (that was reflexive nowikying). Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 21:58, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Hi. If you mean Russian ships, that were seriously damaged during the very first Japanese night torpedo attack on 8/9 February, they were Tsesarevitch, Retvizan and Pallada only. This information comes from numerous Russian sources. Bayan and Askold were undamaged and used in a battle with on the following day (they were slightly damaged during the battle, but it was not dangerous). The three mentioned ships were repaired by June and took part in the battle of the Yellow Sea (Battle of Shantung), apart from Bayan, which was in a meantime damaged by a mine (by the way, after battle of the Yellow Sea Askold was interned in Shanghai, Diana in Saigon and Nowik was sunk near Sakhalin, so they were not sunk in Port Arthur). Generally, only after battle of the Yellow Sea, Russian ships undamaged stayed in Port Arthur and waited for sinking... Medium artillery was partially dismounted from Russian ships about June, before the battle.
Sources (in Russian):
and monographies of other ships (these books are available scanned here [8] and [9])
If you needed info on Russian on Japanese ships, I can help you (I "dug" into this subject a lot, when writing Polish wiki article). Pibwl 28 June 2005 10:46 (UTC)
With regard to my ubiquity — yes, it's getting silly, to be honest. I'm trying to cut down my watchlist. It's now dipped under 3,000, so I'm making progress, but there's a long way to go.
I'm working my way though your e-mails (and trying to catch up on Wikipedia; I'll reply as soon as I can. Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 28 June 2005 10:47 (UTC)
I suggest you drop those chemistry articles off at User:Alteripse's place. He's better versed in organic chemistry than I am. Have you checked your "Text size" option in your browser's view menu? - Mgm| (talk) June 28, 2005 12:18 (UTC)
I only wish I were! My biochemistry degree is decades old, and my current working knowledge is more along the lines of clnically applicable enzymology, metabolism, and endocrinology. I wouldn't be doing you a favor by even promising to eventually help on these laboratory procedure topics, but there are other people with more chemistry experience around here. You might check who has been editing some of the relevant articles, or watch who answers the chemistry questions on the Reference Desk. Good luck. alteripse 28 June 2005 22:18 (UTC)
I have read your personal message, and I thank you for that. I had planned to transffer your message from Talk:Tsushima Islands, but you have posted a duplicate on my talk. If you allow me, I would like to have it removed from the Tsushima talk page, for such personal messages is supposed to be placed in the User's talk.
Three months of war--I have spent more than half my time fighting, but wikipedia is not a place for such things. Neither for Arbittration, etc. My purpose on wikipedia is to spend my leisure time away--not to fight. Complaining that I have wasted your time, how about mine? And saying that (Mel Etitis) silence doesn't warrant response--if a person has not respond another's message for a long time, so long what I say is not repeating what I say, I see no reason why I should be ignored, and having the misconception that I reinstate an edit, it is reverted. And I already bear hatred on Mel Etitis on his wholesale reverts, rather than picking out good edits one-by-one, and that is really heart-breaking. I have posted a message concerning this Korean name issue, so I would appreciate if you have a look at Talk:Tsushima Islands.
Anyway, I apologise that I am in no mood to say anything further properly--I am already having half a mind on leaving. Goodbye. Mr Tan 28 June 2005 12:53 (UTC)
I've only just discovered that it was your edit that I reverted. I reverted it because the "copyedit" and "merge" templates had been removed, and because it didn't seem as though any editing was actually being done. If I'd realised that it was you, I'd have asked first... Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 28 June 2005 17:48 (UTC)
What are you talking about? I didn't make any changes to the page other than adding a POV check template. -- Nik42 29 June 2005 18:49 (UTC)
Regarding the broken links you've seen with tht new software:
<g> No, I'm not filling in for Mel.
Thanks, I"ll find time to archive it myself instead. Mr Tan 1 July 2005 17:55 (UTC)
Hello, User:Fabartus. I saw your suggestion to protect some pages User:Fabartus/Policy01 after I saw your request for help on Uncle Ed's talk page. User_talk:Ed_Poor#Invitations He is helping mediate a Schiavo page dispute, and doing good under the circumstances, I think.
I do agree with you on the point of protecting some pages on a limited basis, or as you call it, protection from "unsupervised edits." I think that I had thought of this in the past, and maybe even proposed it. I don't recall, but anyhow, my idea would be to let users on certain high-interest or controversial pages edit only if they register using their true name, get verified, and like post their picture, contact information (name, address, phone number, and email) and profile on their user page. Then, as editors are screened, they can be allowed to edit. If a non-accepted editor wants to contribute, he/she can submit a proposed edit, and it can get looked at, and so on.
Anyhow, the coincidences that were unusual are that, like you, I have training in Biology, Chemistry, Economics, and Electronics. However, I am not into boating or armed forces service, although I would probably enjoy my tour of duty if I were drafted. Also, I don't write science fiction, and if i did, it would not be under a pen name. (But I do like Star Trek, Voyager, The Next Generation, Star Wars, etc. and the Science Channel technology programs).
I figured I'd write, mentioning the strange coincidence, because it is hard to squeeze in that many lines of study. I don't know what your course progression was, but here is what happened to me, and you can comment:
After graduating in 1984 from High School with an academic scholarship, I went to Hillsborough Community College, because it was walking distance from my home in Plant City, Florida. The only majors offered that even remotely interested me were economics, but I was young and didn't like that. I switched to Electronics, which was an interest of mine since childhood (electronics projects and such) and commuted to the Tampa campus, but my grades went down because I was just a kid. I didn't like the commute and went to the Plant City campus again, and my grades went down, losing my scholarship; i was just a kid. Then in 1988, I went to and graduated with a 2-year AS degree from United Electronics Institute, now doing business as Florida Metropolitan College.
I didn't get any good jobs, and then, later, in 1996, when I figured out that I really wanted to study genetics, I went to Florida State University, graduating with honors and a double major, Biological and Chemical Sciences. However, I pursued some various court cases, acting as my own lawyer, and eventually almost won my case to get Terri Schiavo basic medical help, but lost a heartbreaking close call in our state's high court. Nonetheless, I hope to get a job in my field after this case in more or less over.
Well, I sure agree with you that constant monitoring for vandalism is a MAJOR WASTE OF financial and human RESOURCE$$$!@ So, do you think my proposal to register editors and screen them is a good idea? Also, what do you think about the coincidences in courses of study here?-- GordonWattsDotCom 2 July 2005 05:52 (UTC)
(Some duplication is likely below)
Hi. If you mean Russian ships, that were seriously damaged during the very first Japanese night torpedo attack on 8/9 February, they were Tsesarevitch, Retvizan and Pallada only. This information comes from numerous Russian sources. Bayan and Askold were undamaged and used in a battle with on the following day (they were slightly damaged during the battle, but it was not dangerous). The three mentioned ships were repaired by June and took part in the battle of the Yellow Sea (Battle of Shantung), apart from Bayan, which was in a meantime damaged by a mine (by the way, after battle of the Yellow Sea Askold was interned in Shanghai, Diana in Saigon and Nowik was sunk near Sakhalin, so they were not sunk in Port Arthur). Generally, only after battle of the Yellow Sea, Russian ships undamaged stayed in Port Arthur and waited for sinking... Medium artillery was partially dismounted from Russian ships about June, before the battle.
Sources (in Russian):
and monographies of other ships (these books are available scanned here [10] and [11])
If you needed info on Russian on Japanese ships, I can help you (I "dug" into this subject a lot, when writing Polish wiki article). Pibwl 28 June 2005 10:46 (UTC)
Well, to aclarify your doubts on the Joseon on Tsushima, you may wish to look up [12]. However, from what it is written in wikipedia and the source stated, I believe that "true" Korean control of Tsushima lasted from the Oei Invasion of 1419 to Toyotomi Hideyoshi's attack of Korea in 1592. Tsushima was a dependency according to Homer Hulbert, so Tsushima was also presumed to be under Korean control as well. Got to go. Mr Tan 2 July 2005 06:41 (UTC)
See: User Talk:Mr Tan/English <<<--- The Disappearing Subpage Mystery... appended somehow to his talk Fra nkB 6 July 2005 22:25 (UTC)
That was a lie. Did you read the link I provided you on the above? Tsushima was colonised by Joseon [13], and Korean maps included Tsushima as part of its territory until 1860 (see maps) [14]. Mr Tan 2 July 2005 11:36 (UTC)
All I could say is that; just read the links in the webpages I provided, and the reasons to your "lie" can be found there.
There are a lot more webpages explaining the lie. I can't find very official sources, but I believe Korean news sources "Yonhap", "Donga", "Andongkim" should be acceptable, for the entire population of South Korea reads it daily. If you still could not fully trust me, I could try to find for more sources on the net, and that is what I did (partially) to supply information to wikipedia, somewhat indirectly. Cheers! Mr Tan 3 July 2005 05:53 (UTC)
Post to category:Geography of China Hi! I don't know how to add a category, but I started by copying category templates in Sydney Aus., well it's harbor. In any event, I've tagged and categorized three 'Bays of China' All off the 'Bo Hai', which article is in error, and I'll be fixing. (The Bohai Wan (Bay) is the arm of the Bo Hai, an sea. My 'good deed' has backfired in redlinks in the categories! Help! Thus it would be real nice if someone were to add 'Bays of China' for wiki world wide consitency! Thanks User:Fabartus || Talkto_FrankB 29 June 2005 00:14 (UTC) Retrieved from " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_talk:Geography_of_China" After seeing Diff from Watchlist:
reply:
Thankyou for your time and answer. I hope that I made the small issue clear. My view is that 'Bays of China' is a proper sub-category of Geography of China, and should be added there; that of course means you should revert your change to the article as well. If not, the other two Bays on BoHai Sea need changed as well. No matter what, at least two changes are needed.
I have no expertise about Chinese geography...I hope Maureen has solved your problem. (Yes, the act of putting a category into a parent category turns it from a red link into a blue link...) -- Beland 3 July 2005 09:49 (UTC) of Foo subcats
I moved User/fabartus/scratchpads/Bat of PortArthur (in article namespace) to User:Fabartus/scratchpads/Bat of PortArthur (your user namespace) and deleted the resulting redirect. -- User:Docu
You're welcome. Most of my edits are small things like spelling fixes, link disambiguation, etc. So that's why I mark them as minor. Sietse 3 July 2005 06:18 (UTC)
I suggest you post a message on WP:AN to ask people with more copyvio experience for their view. I've got no knowledge at all about the articles you suggested to merge, so I'm afraid I won't be much help in that at all. I think asking for input at the village pump or the help desk will gather more interested parties. Sorry for not being more helpful. -- Mgm| (talk) July 3, 2005 09:05 (UTC)
Thanks for the idea about contacting the ISP. Right now there doesn't seem to be enough of a problem (the vandal who's using the ISP just seems to be a casual vandal, not one of the hardcore ones) to go through the effort, but it's something to think about if the problem escalated a lot. Thanks, JYolkowski // talk 3 July 2005 19:23 (UTC)
You're welcome. Most of my edits are small things like spelling fixes, link disambiguation, etc. So that's why I mark them as minor. Sietse 3 July 2005 06:18 (UTC)
In reply to your e-mail, see Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page for the process for archiving pages. Thanks, JYolkowski // talk 4 July 2005 01:15 (UTC)
Cheers as well :) what can I say, edit wars are bad for your health. WP:RFC sometimes helps. R adiant _>|< July 4, 2005 09:40 (UTC)
You're right, I am from New Zealand, though I know little about the military.
A comprehensive list of militaries should be at List of militaries (or somethign of the like) if that page doesn't already exist, and looking at Category:Militaries, I wonder if the section "Specific militaries" should be on that page at all. Perhaps, make List of militaries and link to it from a see also section on Military, and remove that specific militaries section altogether? (With that, I've decided not to add New Zealand to that list at the bottom of that page; I don't mean to be a pain, but I don't think it's the best path from here.)
The military article is a bit short for its nature, don't you think? To be honest, I don't know anything about military and I'm not interested in the military either. For avenues to other countries, you could try the lists of wikipedians by country (if you haven't already). Neonumbers 2 July 2005 11:39 (UTC)
You've requested my input on this article a while back. I'm sorry to say I know next to nothing about the subject and my ability to research it is nearly non-existent as well. I suggest you ask someone else. Maybe User:Radiant!? - Mgm| (talk) July 4, 2005 18:00 (UTC)
You may wish to know that I added to this article, particularly in the See Also section AlMac 5 July 2005 07:32 (UTC)
Finlay McWalter answered your question on my talk page. And just so you know. I just started using a bot myself and I'm nowhere near a wiz in that field. If you want to talk to someone about bots AllyUnion is your best bet. - Mgm| (talk) July 5, 2005 05:13 (UTC)
The Japanese version of the Tsushima Yuko page says her first book was published when she was 24 so I have erased the date and left her age. I think that fixes it. Thanks for pointing out the discrepancy. I also voted on the Tsushima Island(s) Talk page. I voted 'Tsushima Island' or 'Tsushima (island)'. In either case, singular.
Just noticed that you seemed to have a long conversation going on with Mr Tan. Might I suggest that you use your good books with him and convince him to remove the en-N tag he has on his user page? It might lead to some unpleasant comments towards him. Might I suggest you archive this page periodically? It takes up less Bandwidth. =Nichalp «Talk»= July 4, 2005 19:24 (UTC) From Nick's Talk Archives: re: Your request to persuade MT on something:
I don't see any probs with the test! =Nichalp «Talk»= July 7, 2005 07:29 (UTC) From Nick's Archive10 page:
Well, there seems to be a lengthy RFC about him, which already has at least one admin (Mel Etitis) involved. I'd suggest you ask him what to do; if the RFC isn't working it's possible to take the matter to the ArbCom ( WP:RFAr). R adiant _>|< July 7, 2005 11:08 (UTC)
Hello. Thanks for your note. I'm afraid I simply do not have the time to be involved in more than the handful of projects I work on now. I looked at the Talk page to see if it was perhaps a relatively straightforward issue I could make a quick contribution to, but it's an involved dispute that will take too much time if I'm to contribute meaningfully. Thank you for asking anyway. Regards,~ Neuroscientist | T | C July 7, 2005 18:04 (UTC)
Thank you; the versions are mentioned on the Talk page under the section Which Version, and should still be current. Since the fundamental cause of difference is the order of the whole article after the section=head Criticisms, the diff is not likely to be particularly informative, I regret to say. Try reading each version separately, and see which is clear (if either, he said modestly).
My most recent version is this one which is also [http: //tinyurl.com/c6wl5 here], in tinyurl. NOTE: TINY.URL
I see WHEELER is also back, if you have encountered him
This appears to be right.
Septentrionalis 7 July 2005 19:25 (UTC)
Hey, thanks for the note on my talk page. :) Honestly, though, I have no opinion on the name of the article. I simply used the plural where I did because the article is currently named with "islands" rather than "island." Actually, I'm off to make sure I got all of those verbs in the same conjugation there.... XD -- User:Jenmoa 8 July 2005 20:50 (UTC)
-- Jpbrenna 8 July 2005 21:47 (UTC)
See: User_talk:Dragons_flight#Naming_Inspiration Dragons flight July 9, 2005 00:00 (UTC)
Yes, I know you asked me earlier, but I'm afraid I got confused by your lengthy wording. Okay, so there's an RFC already, sorry that I forgot about that (busy week). If this turns out to be not working, especially if the subject is being hostile (e.g. personal attacks), it would be a logical step to take the matter to the ArbCom. The question, really, is whether Mr Tan has repeatedly broken any rules after being warned; the most common violations in this case being edit warring, personal attacks, frivolous accusations, ignoring consensus, assuming bad faith, not responding to talk pages and adding inappropriate items to articles.
So what you should try is if you can explain, cleanly and concisely, and with evidence, if the user has been seriously disruptive to the project, as indicated above. Explain it to me first, if you want; pointing to a lengthy talk page and asking people to read thru it is not really going to work. If this turns out to be not possible, the answer would be that Mr Tan is one of those users that are annoying to some people, but nevertheless good contributors - and my advice would be to bear with it, discuss, or ignore and go to some other article. Yours, R adiant _>|< July 9, 2005 06:30 (UTC)
May 29th 2005 to July 2nd 9th
Archieved 13:07 (local EDST) 6 July 2005
Merged in contents from the ill-fated archive02 (IE6 borwser edit problem)
Fra
nkB 18:25, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
refs:
Harry the Magician was performing on a cruise ship in the Caribbean. The pay was lousy, but the audience changed weekly, so he could do the same tricks over and over.
There was just one problem: The captain's parrot saw the shows every week and began to understand the tricks. So in the middle of the show, the parrot would shout:
'Look, it's not the same hat!'
Two weeks later, the ship sank. Harry saved himself by clinging to a piece of wood ... with the parrot perched on the other end.
Magician and parrot stared at each other with hatred for several days, but did not utter a single word.
After a week the parrot finally said: 'Okay, I give up. What did you do with the boat?'
Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: 1
I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~~~. Four tildes (~~~~) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! -- Flcelloguy|| talk Flcelloguy 17:31, 29 May 2005 (UTC)
Hi, I believe that the pages have a stylesheet for printing, so they should print off in a "printer-friendly" format, especially if you have a newer version of Internet Explorer or Firefox. Give it a try and see if it works for you. JYolkowski // talk 20:31, 29 May 2005 (UTC)
Hi, and welcome to Wikipedia from me too! I got your e-mail with the questions about the secrets of Wikipedia, I'll see if I can ncover some of it here.
First, Wikipedia is much more of a community than someone just reading the articles on it would realize. I only discovered the community behind the encyclopedia because my first article got listed for deletion! There are a number of users here keeping a watch of what is being done, and a lot of discussions and debates taking place "behind the scenes".
Alright: how things get picked up so quickly by the congnizati of Wiki
How does something get nominated/placed on the VfD? {{delete}}??? Or a process involving at least one other in initial agreement?
What are the attention and cleanup tags?
Hope that helped answer some of the questions! Oh, and if you want to give a message to somebody, it is more common to use the users' talkpages (mine is at User talk:Sjakkalle rather than e-mail, in part because not all users sign on with an e-mail address. Good luck!. Sjakkalle 10:47, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Hi again! The page which you get when you click on my signature is the so-called user page. You actually have one too, even though it has not been created yet, it is located at the top of the page, furthest to the left. (At the moment it is red since it has not been created yet). The userpage is yours to edit, and people are quite liberal and tolerant abount what you put on it. See Wikipedia:User pages.
Next to the userpage is a user-talkpage, you are reading your user-talkpage now. My talkpage is at User talk:Sjakkalle. In general, you should leave messages on the user's talkpage, and not the user page. (In general, refrain from editing other userpages than your own unless it is to correct typos or to revert vandalism, users tend to be rather touchy about their own userpage). When you edit the talkpage however, the user you are trying to contact will quickly be alerted by an orange box saying that "You have new messages", and if logged in, may give you a quick reply. Some people have customised their signatures to provide a link to their talk-page, but yours truly is truly a lazy user and hasn't.
You may have noticed that all the pages, articles, Wikipedia project pages, userpages, and so on, have a discussion tab on them. Much of the discussion "behind the scenes" takes place on them, and they are useful for posing questions or debating issues without editing the page itself. Sjakkalle 14:08, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
It has been discussed. There was once a poll about 11 ways to expand the criteria for speedy deletion. Three of the proposals passed, eight failed, vanity being one of them although 44% of people wanted it listed as a criterion. Take a look at Wikipedia:Proposal_to_expand_WP:CSD for the entire poll.
Vanity failed primarily because it is somewhat subjective what is vanity. Sometimes the subject may be more notable than it seems, and many people prefer to see ten blatant vanity cases go through VfD and get it deleted the "long" way, in order to save the one article which actually is about a notable person.
By the way, got a new signature now, this is the first time I'm really using it! Sjakkalle ( Check!) 14:38, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
And another "Welcome to Wikipedia, hope you stick around and contribute." I'd just like to reinforce Sjakkalle's suggestion that Wikipedia communication between users should be conducted via "Talk pages" a.k.a. "Discussion pages" rather than via email. It's considered better wikiquette. And I realize that this is an utterly minor, niggling, nit-picking point, totally my personal opinion that you are completely welcome to ignore, but I find it kind of disconcerting when you refer to an article as an "arty." Maybe because the only other use I've seen of the word "arty" as an abbreviation refers to Artillery. In any case, welcome. Hope to see you around. Soundguy99 16:16, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
In reply to your reply (numbered just so I can keep track of my own thoughts):
Hope this all helps. Any other questions, feel free to get in touch on my Talk page. Soundguy99 03:30, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Hi, I'm sorry, I didn't answer your question about Wing Commander. The reason is simply that I don't know how it relates to Privateer. Sjakkalle (Check!) 14:21, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Oh but yes, the quote is correct [1]. R adiant _* 14:48, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)
I'll have a look at it. Cheers. -- BD2412 talk 02:46, 2005 Jun 10 (UTC)
I've always found that a good way to get advice on articles on a particular subject matter is to look in the histories for editors who have made a lot of edits to articles in that area. -- BD2412 talk 12:46, 2005 Jun 10 (UTC)
Hi there! RFA is WP:RFA, or requests for adminship. After a recent vote, I was made an admin with a rather large amount of votes (#4 in the ranking, not that anybody would care about that). So that's why. Oh and btw I was sending people to Pie, not Pie. :) Oh, and I'll remove some old issues from my talk page some time soon. R adiant _>|< 13:01, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for your comment. However, I would appreciate if you could give a map that specifically tells the location of the Tsushima Strait, for giving wrong maps can do more harm than good as wrong Maps can give wrong information. Feel free to add a new map that clearly tells the location of the Tsushima Strait, but I will have to remove the old map, for it seems to tell the location of the Tsushima Islands than the strait itself, I'm afraid.
Mr Tan 05:46, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Yes, sure, go ahead and add a map, please, but not the previous one for I'm afraid that that is misleading, and I'm a person who is very picky about maps. I apologise for any anger caused, but I'm happy if you can reconstuct a new map which specifically tells about the location of the strait. I am very grateful about your concern but anyway, I will be tell you when I really need help. I am sorry to remove the legend, however, for I believe that the legends goes with the map, which I have to remove it. Please, add a new map, in any orientation you like, se long it specifies the location of the Strait. Thanks!
Mr Tan 11:45, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
But if I revert back, the old map will confuse readers who read the page within that time span before we put a new one! Anyway, I can make a new map for you, but that will be a bit rudimentary. Unless you have the appropriate map-making software, if the thing is not going to be permanent, or at least long-term, then a revert or putting up a rudimentary map will cause more harm than good.
Mr Tan 13:39, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
No, no, are you trying to talk about this map
right] right?
No, some people who does not have a good anaticyal mind may get coinfused.
To me, the location of the Tsushima Strait and the islands are close, but the problem with this map is that it does not show specifically the location of the Strait. And a map that matches with my description is what I want.
Mr Tan 15:04, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Hi Fabartus!
The merge tags on the Port Arthur articles were taken off some weeks ago. When added the merge-tags I thought they were about the same thing, but I was mistaken that time. Sjakkalle (Check!) 06:28, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Hi Frank! Welcome to Wikipedia. I've received your message; I'll surely reply, but give me some time. I'll page you after a few hours time. = Nichalp ( Talk)= 15:25, Jun 13, 2005 (UTC)
But I guess wrong, thinking it was Kipling. Sigh! Anyway, thought I'd say "Howdy". I just had a run in with Mr Tan over something almost trivial and saw your input on the RfC page. I posted the discussion there if you care on Tsushima Strait . Here are quick links My talk (Article 11) and His Talk (Article 85). Reverting will probably escallate the situation, so I left that for another. Any advice on cutting this gordian knot, et al would be appreciated. Private comments on email are fine.
I had left a message for you, but Mr Tan removed it. It was:
He's also insisting on controversial edits at Tsushima islands; I'm out of reverts, so there's nothing that I can do, but if you'd care to look at them to see what you think, please do.
I'm not sure about requests for map support — I'll ask around. Wikipedia:Maps might be a good place to start, though. Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 19:26, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Noo...Sorry, I didn't mean it. It must be an edit conflict that I wasn't aware, looking at the time stated.
Mr Tan 02:41, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I need your co-operation--you reverted first, but I counter revert to tell you to tell you to make the mark and stop reverting, so that we can settle down to discuss. But you have an attitude of forcing people to make the mark every time, yet it is your doubts that you want to inquire. That is rude.
Also, why ask for a revert if you have no questions or doubts on Talk:Tsushima Islands? You say that "Your attitude at the moment seems to be that you'll simply make the same wholesale edit repeatedly, changing parts of it once the rel;evant mistakes have been pointed out at least two or three times. That's not a productive, nor a collaborative approach.", but your attitude match the above description stated. All I want is attention, but how come simply cannot get the facts right into one's mind? If you object, say so directly. Don't blast it at other people in anyway you like.
Mr Tan 02:51, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Very good, for your new map. Image:TsuShima Strait.png
Mr Tan 03:10, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
You'll have to get that copyright statement off the map. Try cropping the image and uploading the image under the same file name. = Nichalp ( Talk)= 05:55, Jun 14, 2005 (UTC)
The new one is good. You would have to upload over the old one; else we'll have duplicates. After you upload you will be asked to save over the old or cancel. Select the first option. Colouring the sea blue in the old map (used to locate the island) will also help. I'd prefer that you do not upload it here to the English wikipedia. Since you're off to bed I won't elaborate "till the sun rises your side"; will tell u later why. Regards, :) = Nichalp ( Talk)= 06:28, Jun 14, 2005 (UTC)
I would like you to sign up for Wikimedia commons:, a sister concern of the the English wikipedia. The Wikimedia Commons is a project that provides a central repository for free images, music, sound & video clips and, possibly, texts and spoken texts, used in pages of any Wikimedia project. Unlike images uploaded on other projects, images on Commons can be embedded on pages of all Wikimedia projects.
I also see you copying and pasting the absolute link to an article. There's no need for such a cumbersome procedure. Just copy the title of the page (just above the text: From wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), and wikify it (add the [[ ]]). If you find it interesting I'll give you a few more tips on the images. Regards, = Nichalp ( Talk)= 06:53, Jun 14, 2005 (UTC)
Hey, what is the big fuss, Mr Bartus? I only made two reverts, and explained that bad maps can be misleading. Now you have corrected them, Thanks. But what is the matter? I am satisfied, you are satisfied. Why spur the big fuss? And don't be too harsh. I am at your son's age--fourteen to fifteen, approximately. Thanks.
Mr Tan 13:10, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC) My response
And to some others involved
I do not like people treating me as dirt. If you're going to insult at me, I will request for arbitration againts you. Really, I do not like it when people act like they own Wikipedia and try to order people to do things. And what's wrong if I'm a kid? I have straight A's in English in school. Mr Tan 12:46, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for your comforting message, but I feel a bit strange for I could not remember posting the above message, and the message isn't written by me at all when I came in here! Please check your talk page history. I suspect that something is fishy going around here. Thanks.
Mr Tan 13:26, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
It seems that somebody is inpersonating me, after checking its page history. The person is User:Mr. Tan, not User:Mr Tan, if you notice that there is a extra full stop.
Anyway, I thank you for your offer. I am willing and eager to meet Jon and develop a good wikifriendship on wikipedia, moreover with a person who has a better command of English of my age. I will try to improve my English, and have scored well in my English tests, but the attitude of Singaporeans' English has really made me "one eye among the blind" case, for my English is at most somewhat better than the rest of the Singaporeans, who has some traits of Singlish in their English. I will try, to use proper British English, if I can--I"ll try. Anyway, I extend my thanks again, Mr Bartus.
Mr Tan 13:40, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
= Nichalp ( Talk)= 06:19, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)
Sorry not to have replied sooner; it's the end of term, and I'm harrassed, and only just able to keep up with my editing (well, not really able, in fact). I'll reply properly tomorrow. Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 08:47, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I cannot understand why User:Nanshu move this article back to Island--despite the description of its history that it is two seperate islands. Mr Tan 16:22, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Anyway, I have also notified User:Mel Etitis concerning this issue. Thanks. Mr Tan 16:42, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
User/fabartus/battles/Battle_of_the_Nile (in article namespace) has been moved to User:Fabartus/battles/Battle_of_the_Nile (user namespace). I deleted the resulting redirect. -- User:Docu
You have given a list of books which I presume is targeting at the Tsushima Islands project. I have searched for books concerning Tsushima in libraries and bookshops in Singapore and Johor Bahru, but I would sincerely say that I cannot find any.
Also, I do not have sufficient time to do all these things because I believe that our goal on wikipedia is merely for the sake of satisfaction, not on serious work. However, meanwhile, I will try to search for more internet sources, and I will be happy to accept any sources concerning this Tsushima project.
Mr Tan 02:37, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Do you think I did not make an effort to conduct a search for book sources? I do, notably Kinokuniya in Orchard Road, but I what I am saying is my sincere heart. I just cannot find sources on Tsushima. The problem for me to cut down on my computer time is one reason: I need to study and work hard for my academic results.
I agree that I must have responsibility in what I do--I will finish up this matter as soon as possible, not by force, but rather through a series of explanations and source citings. My purpose to come to wikipedia has its main purpose: "To contribute for returning from what you take from people"., but the pressure really presses me down---
Think about theprinciple of giving---that is my aim on wikipedia. However, if I give and I get something bad in return--hostility, and scolding from Mel Etiits and Bell, doing nothing in the end in Zanskar, I feel that I have no reason to be on wiki.
I"ll just try my best--I cannot say further. Mr Tan 03:42, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
For the whale over fishing, my sources came from here: [2], [3], [4].
For the land area, please see the Japanese version of Iki Island or here [5].
Thanks. Mr Tan 04:14, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I"ll try, but I'm afraid that most of the sources on Iki Island are in Japanese and I have only a smattering knowledge of Japanese. If you can give some information as well, or enhance the article, I will be happy to accept your contributions. Thanks. Mr Tan 04:37, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Hi Fab. You can easily revert an Edit you do not like by going to the History Page, select the Version you favour, put it in Edit mode, and Save (5 seconds flat). That's called "Reverting an Edit", and you don't have to throw rude language around. PHG 09:47, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Hello! I'm still not quite with it (there's a little more teaching next week, held over from term, and last night's Schools Dinner for Maths and Maths & Philosophy was extremely convivial, and went on rather late). On the plural/singular matter, though, I've left a comment at the Talk page; I'd be interested in your reactions.
Doing very long edits can be dangerous, especially when the article is prone to frequent editing; shorter bursts are safer. I've often wasted time making a long series of edits, only to save and find that someone else has either beaten me to it or edited in such a way that my edits would have to be painstakingly inserted into the text again. Things would be so much easier if we each had our own Wikipedia... Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 12:05, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
It took me a while to see what was going on. If you think you can better divide into one vote on the Island/Islands question (on which I have no opinion), and one vote on Tsushima, please do.
As for my page: A blank User Page means my links on my watchlist are red, and therefore findable. Since I'm not sure what to say about myself anyway, I leave it. Septentrionalis 18:18, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I would appreciate if you can reply in contrast to my requests on Talk:Tsushima Strait. Thanks. Mr Tan 13:57, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
He is clearly addicted to wikipedia; this will overturn his life, but I do not want to know or care. I"ll see to the case of Tsushima Islands, and I"ll only get myself involved when absolutely necessary. For now, I will not contribute anymore information to the article temporarily.
Mr Tan 17:33, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I"ll hope that your previous message is merely a plain grammar lesson. I am saying what I mean in the previous comment--I do not want to interfere with Mel Etitis in anyway, for I have no reason and purpose by doing so! Anyway, thanks for your notes, I will read them soon, and I will be happy to accept more. I hope that it is British English, but I presume you are American---the notes seems to be a bit confusing as it uses American English grammar which I am not familiar.
Mr Tan 18:18, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Hi, sorry for not getting back to you sooner; I missed your initial post in a flurry of other people posting to my talk page.
Regarding the U.S. customary units, did you find U.S. customary units? That sounds like what you might be looking for.
There isn't any hard and fast rule as to whether to reply to an existing topic or create a new one on the talk page. Generally if discussion is stale, I find that it makes sense to create a new headline. On the other hand, if discussion on a topic is still active, it doesn't make sense to split it up unnecessarily.
Regarding the railways, if they are the same thing, then I would agree that it does make sense to merge. However, if they're not, then there may be advantages and disadvantages to merging. It might be worth a query on Talk:China Far East Railway and Talk:Manchurian Railway to see whether people think that the two articles should be merged into one.
For information on naming conventions, see Wikipedia:Naming conventions. Generally, older names are handled by creating a redirect to the page in question and mentioning the other names in the text. See for example the lead paragraph of China Far East Railway.
I'm not entirely sure I personally agree with the indirection idea, but it might have potential. You might want to mention it on Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals) and see what others think.
Thanks, JYolkowski // talk 21:13, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for the guidance. I'll see what I can do about formulating my concerns on the historic names lossage for a pump presentation, but I want to wait until after I EDIT or create the various RJ-W battles. There are several (6 or 7) on loan to my library from other networked branches, and I'm fairly sure they are not renewable when borrowed across the library network this way. The clock is ticking, and the weather has improved after a four day rain. The yard and garden and pool all call. Hear them? Fraaaannnnk! ttfn [[User:Fabartus| User:fabartus || TalktoMe]] 22:39, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
To which article are you referring? -- Jonel | Speak 01:35, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Hi -- Thanks for your support on the Bryce Harrington article. I actually have already given my "pro" argument on the vote for deletion page. I've tried contacting a few people who have edited the Inkscape article recently to give them a heads up on the vfd. I don't think the idea of deleting it had anything to do with its length, just that they don't consider him notable enough. -- Bcrowell 03:44, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I would appreciate if you can help me (and Mel Etitis) concerning an article move by some Wikipedia Japanese Users. Thanks. Mr Tan 11:08, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
The message was concerning a page move--The Japanese users says that they want to move the article to Tsushima Island because the Japanese government recognizes it as an island, but I opposed because it was geographically two seperate islands today, so I need you to cast a vote and state your advise on the move.
I am already trying to take a retreat from wikipedia--to reduce stress and to prepare for the end of the school holidays. Tan
I noticed that you added an inuse template. In the past, User:Mel Etitis and User:JMBell strongly protested the use of this template while was editing Wee Kim Wee/temp, and it was blocked because of this.
While they accuse me that I was doing this to prevent others from editing, I stated that this was to discourage, not stop people from editing.
If there is no harm putting this template up if a person genuinely want to work on a specific article, can you please give a statement concerning this past issue? Your comment is greatly appreciated. Mr Tan 03:29, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
(This is an interleaved communication. Originated here with my responses ending his original content, then posted back to him.)
Hope it's enough to stabilize the text for copy editting! Now, how do we get M/m Tan to go elsewhere? Any further thoughts? I'd hate to ban him totally, as I do believe that energy can be lead into making fruitful contributions — especially in new artys of immature nature. If you see User_Talk:Mr Tan, you'll see I've left several novelettes of oil on troubled waters that he seems to be ingesting slowly.
Looks like my 'Signature' needs further adjustment! Don't understand where the bold is comming from. fab:13:27 local
I understand your vote to be a conditional Yes on the compromise move to Tsushima and am moving it to consolidate the vote on the compromise in one place. If I have misunderstood you, please correct. Septentrionalis 16:50, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I am actually very busy as well--honestly, this is the last week of my one-month Singaporean school holidays, and I have became a wikiholic over the months and years. Honestly, I had tremendous anxiety concerning Tsushima, and I couldn't control myself, for I want to put down this matter as fast as possible in order to settle myself down for school. Anyway, I"ll try to cut them down unless absolutely necessary--Thanks, and good luck. Mr Tan 11:56, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Hi Frank, just a short note - your signature is somewhat broken; my guess is that you should just enter the following into the signature box in Preferences:
FrankB]] || [[User talk:Fabartus|TalktoMe
The "[[User:Fabartus|" prefix and the two brackets at the end are added automatically.
That's all. I've written some things on the Tsushima Islands talk page; otherwise, I'm still remaining neutral. Cheers - JM Bell ° 13:16, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Hi. The purpose of the edit [6] was not to criticize Mel Etitis, of course! I clarified that at the start. I eplained the background of the current situation for newcomers but that was not the point. The focus of my message was in the last two paragraphs. Actually I made a proposal for the future. I'm not interested in what Mel Etitis does in the articles I don't edit, and I'd like to minimize my involvement in wikipolitics. -- Nanshu 14:29, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Thankyou very very much for your posting on my talk. That clarifys matters greatly, especially the pics. The matter was much muddled, as you will see if you choose to visit the LONG LONG talk page, but your cogent comments are a breath of fresh air, and I'm going to take the liberty of taking them 'AS IS' and posting them (way down) into the MOVE DISCUSSION.
Hi Frank - sorry I'm late replying. I haven't read all the arguments yet -this is just a quick note. I just noticed your message on my talk page and it's almost one o'clock in the night over here. Ignore this message if it's too late.
It's not surprising that people don't agree on this issue - a quick google search revealed that the Columbia Encyclopedia and the Britannica don't agree on whether Tsushima is two islands or one island (although the Britannica seems outdated). The minor surrounding islands shouldn't be a problem - for example, most people would consider Guam an island, when it actually has at least one minor island nearby.
The way I see it, both opinions have their strong points. You can't deny that Tsushima is composed of many different islands, even without the north/south island thing. On the other hand, Japanese people usually treat and call Tsushima one island, which seems to be reflected in the various references people have been showing.
I'm speculating here, but I think there are two reasons the Japanese call Tsushima an island:
If I had to choose between Tsushima Islands and Tsushima Island right now, I would probably give very weak support to Tsushima Island, because it's less surprising to someone who has general knowledge of Tsushima (who would probably either be Japanese, or have lived in Japan). For example, the author of a book I recently translated calls Tsushima an island (the author is an American missionary to Japan). Both titles are correct in their own way, so the principle of least surprise should apply - which is unfortunately, very difficult to determine.
That said, the article title really shouldn't matter, because the article will be talking about the same group of islands regardless of the title. The best compromise may be to name the article Tsushima. I'd rather have an article with a title that's the result of a compromise than an endless, unconstructive edit war.
You might want to call for help on the Japanese Wikipedians' Notice Board. The following are pictures of the canal, to give you an idea of what people are talking about.
I'll sleep for now and give this issue some thought. Atsi Otani 16:38, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Upon doublechecking, Tsushima Maru is a stub; Tsushima Yuko is not marked as a stub, but they are both quite short. {{seealso}} is a convenient form for unconnected uses of a word, but in this case, something of the form Tsushima lies in the Straits of Tsushima, in which the Battle of Tsushima was fought seems more appropriate. Septentrionalis 14:32, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for your message, Mr Bartus. Meanwhile I need to sort out my thoughts about Tsushima. Mr Tan 07:15, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I contrast to your message, I would like to say that my English has its own loopholes, and I apologise for my mistakes. I will be happy if you can help me correct them gramatically, but I will find time time do my part as well.
Concerning this voting issue, I won't say that voting "support" is wrong, because the point of view of one person can differ, and voting is where the person's freedom of speech is permitted---I bear no hatred of you just because you voted "support", so long if there are no cases of outright criticisms on the person himself. I respect your decision to vote.
However, I would be happy if you do allow me to put in a word concerning your vote – your vote for the support has a devastating effect on your contributions in respect to the fact that your mention of how Tsushima is seperated between 1895 and 1905. Your mention of Tsushima as "two islands" in that paragraph certainly contradicts with your "support" vote for moving the page to Tsushima Island", and this will make people wonder what are you talking about, describing how Tsushima is seperated on one hand, and supporting the move on the other hand!
Also, I would appreciate if you can have a look at Mr Otani's comment--He stated that there are several other islands around the two islands--even the island is joined, it would be ridiculous to say "Tsushima Island". And from my viewpoint, I would certainly advise you to vote oppose. However, your comment is greatly appreciated. Mr Tan 13:26, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Both of us have made a statement on the Talk page: the article stands as Ultramarine left it. Feel free to advise (and if you find his arguments justified, please explain them to me). Septentrionalis 16:47, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Mel looked briefly, and counseled Ultramarine to read the policy on POV. Septentrionalis 22:13, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Customs rules communications? Absolutely wrong. How about Jurong Island, which was a man-made reclaimed island, with its origins from seven natural, seperate islands and part of the Straits of Singapore? Why isn't it called Jurong Islands, or the original name of the original seven islands? Mr Tan 06:36, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I am sorry, but I cannot make out what sort of fairy tale you are talking about. Though I may be young, but wikipedia is a place that does not encourage such story-telling. Please get to the point on my statement: WHAT WE ARE TALKING IS THE PRESENT STATE OF TSUSHIMA. BE IT DIVIDED BY AN INCH, OR HUNDREDS OF KILOMETRES, SO LONG THAT THERE IS NO POINT OF PHYSICAL CONTACT BETWEEN THE TWO REGIONS OF LAND THEY ARE CONSIDERED TWO SEPERATE ISLANDS. AND I HAVE ALREADY ADVISED YOU TO LOOK UP Jurong Island to compare with Tsushima! Mr Tan 15:51, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for your message. I was a in a bad mood, so I apologise if I maybe rude, but I honestly I do not like you to call me "Tan emperor", for I would prefered to be addressed as Mr Tan, or Tan. I have no objections to your teachings, but I do not like to be given funny names.
For now, I am in a grave problem. I have quarantined the Korean infobox temporarily, and offered to discuss with Ypacarai (I have my comments in Talk:Tsushima Islands, but he seems to take a hard stance on this matter. What I need is he himself to discuss the matter with me, but he is not willing to give me sufficient explanations, and when I answered back to his rebuttals, he simply ignored me. But his discussions and explanations are simply not sufficient for his actions, and he chose to become a bull on this matter.
I would greatly appreciate if you could stop his relentless reverts, for I find it extremely difficult to bring him to his attention to discuss on his objections. Cheers, Mr Bartus! Mr Tan 10:02, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
And obey all other advices of prof. Mel and Fabartus, or any other respectable wikipedians. -- Ypacaraí 11:48, 2005 Jun 24 (UTC)
I am afraid that I don't understand your demand to me exaxtly, because I am new to wikipedia and I don't know datails of the wiki system. If I do it by myself, I will bring another mistakes, I think. So, I would appriciate it if you could kindly do it first. Of course I know you are busy, so rough correction is enough. I shall follow it.
My intention of putting my comments to you is just to show facts about canals to you and other wikipedians. There are no other intentions.
If you have no time to do, please contact to me. I will try by myself. Thank you. Baru 17:13, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Thank you for modifying the layout. And I apologize for bothering you. Baru 00:35, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
The article was moved to "Tsushima Island", with no agreement, and Mr Tan asked me to move it back. I could see no grounds not to, so I did, and asked for discussion. Nanshu moved it again, and I reverted, again asking for discussion (and ensuring that he couldn't just Move it again). Nanshu then asked for the article to be moved on the requests page, without mentioning this on the articles's Talk page. Since then he's insisted on chaninging the text in line with his desired title, only stoppiing when he was threatened with being blocked from editing. To be honest, his behaviour has been underhand at best.
Part of the problem is his insistence on adding comments to long-dead discussions in the middle of a long Talk page, while many people are posting to a new discussion at the bottom of the page, and then becoming abusive when (unsurprisingly) his comment isn't noticed.
I genuinely wish that I'd never become involved in these pages, and with Mr Tan, Nanshu, and one or two others, but I can't walk away from it now — the mess that they manage to make is astonishing — left to their own devices I shudder to think what would happen.
My request for arbitration against Mr Tan isn't gone and forgotten; it's just that the end of term (especially as it was a Finals term) was very hectic. Things are still winding down, in fact, with College business lingering until the end of the month, but I'll be putting the request together properly over the next week or so. My feeling is that, though he swings between being absolutely manic and appalling to being merely irritating, he's not getting any better in general. Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 09:40, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
In order to use characters that have a special Wiki-mark-up significance, stick <nowiki> ... </nowiki> (round them (that was reflexive nowikying). Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 21:58, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Hi. If you mean Russian ships, that were seriously damaged during the very first Japanese night torpedo attack on 8/9 February, they were Tsesarevitch, Retvizan and Pallada only. This information comes from numerous Russian sources. Bayan and Askold were undamaged and used in a battle with on the following day (they were slightly damaged during the battle, but it was not dangerous). The three mentioned ships were repaired by June and took part in the battle of the Yellow Sea (Battle of Shantung), apart from Bayan, which was in a meantime damaged by a mine (by the way, after battle of the Yellow Sea Askold was interned in Shanghai, Diana in Saigon and Nowik was sunk near Sakhalin, so they were not sunk in Port Arthur). Generally, only after battle of the Yellow Sea, Russian ships undamaged stayed in Port Arthur and waited for sinking... Medium artillery was partially dismounted from Russian ships about June, before the battle.
Sources (in Russian):
and monographies of other ships (these books are available scanned here [8] and [9])
If you needed info on Russian on Japanese ships, I can help you (I "dug" into this subject a lot, when writing Polish wiki article). Pibwl 28 June 2005 10:46 (UTC)
With regard to my ubiquity — yes, it's getting silly, to be honest. I'm trying to cut down my watchlist. It's now dipped under 3,000, so I'm making progress, but there's a long way to go.
I'm working my way though your e-mails (and trying to catch up on Wikipedia; I'll reply as soon as I can. Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 28 June 2005 10:47 (UTC)
I suggest you drop those chemistry articles off at User:Alteripse's place. He's better versed in organic chemistry than I am. Have you checked your "Text size" option in your browser's view menu? - Mgm| (talk) June 28, 2005 12:18 (UTC)
I only wish I were! My biochemistry degree is decades old, and my current working knowledge is more along the lines of clnically applicable enzymology, metabolism, and endocrinology. I wouldn't be doing you a favor by even promising to eventually help on these laboratory procedure topics, but there are other people with more chemistry experience around here. You might check who has been editing some of the relevant articles, or watch who answers the chemistry questions on the Reference Desk. Good luck. alteripse 28 June 2005 22:18 (UTC)
I have read your personal message, and I thank you for that. I had planned to transffer your message from Talk:Tsushima Islands, but you have posted a duplicate on my talk. If you allow me, I would like to have it removed from the Tsushima talk page, for such personal messages is supposed to be placed in the User's talk.
Three months of war--I have spent more than half my time fighting, but wikipedia is not a place for such things. Neither for Arbittration, etc. My purpose on wikipedia is to spend my leisure time away--not to fight. Complaining that I have wasted your time, how about mine? And saying that (Mel Etitis) silence doesn't warrant response--if a person has not respond another's message for a long time, so long what I say is not repeating what I say, I see no reason why I should be ignored, and having the misconception that I reinstate an edit, it is reverted. And I already bear hatred on Mel Etitis on his wholesale reverts, rather than picking out good edits one-by-one, and that is really heart-breaking. I have posted a message concerning this Korean name issue, so I would appreciate if you have a look at Talk:Tsushima Islands.
Anyway, I apologise that I am in no mood to say anything further properly--I am already having half a mind on leaving. Goodbye. Mr Tan 28 June 2005 12:53 (UTC)
I've only just discovered that it was your edit that I reverted. I reverted it because the "copyedit" and "merge" templates had been removed, and because it didn't seem as though any editing was actually being done. If I'd realised that it was you, I'd have asked first... Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης) 28 June 2005 17:48 (UTC)
What are you talking about? I didn't make any changes to the page other than adding a POV check template. -- Nik42 29 June 2005 18:49 (UTC)
Regarding the broken links you've seen with tht new software:
<g> No, I'm not filling in for Mel.
Thanks, I"ll find time to archive it myself instead. Mr Tan 1 July 2005 17:55 (UTC)
Hello, User:Fabartus. I saw your suggestion to protect some pages User:Fabartus/Policy01 after I saw your request for help on Uncle Ed's talk page. User_talk:Ed_Poor#Invitations He is helping mediate a Schiavo page dispute, and doing good under the circumstances, I think.
I do agree with you on the point of protecting some pages on a limited basis, or as you call it, protection from "unsupervised edits." I think that I had thought of this in the past, and maybe even proposed it. I don't recall, but anyhow, my idea would be to let users on certain high-interest or controversial pages edit only if they register using their true name, get verified, and like post their picture, contact information (name, address, phone number, and email) and profile on their user page. Then, as editors are screened, they can be allowed to edit. If a non-accepted editor wants to contribute, he/she can submit a proposed edit, and it can get looked at, and so on.
Anyhow, the coincidences that were unusual are that, like you, I have training in Biology, Chemistry, Economics, and Electronics. However, I am not into boating or armed forces service, although I would probably enjoy my tour of duty if I were drafted. Also, I don't write science fiction, and if i did, it would not be under a pen name. (But I do like Star Trek, Voyager, The Next Generation, Star Wars, etc. and the Science Channel technology programs).
I figured I'd write, mentioning the strange coincidence, because it is hard to squeeze in that many lines of study. I don't know what your course progression was, but here is what happened to me, and you can comment:
After graduating in 1984 from High School with an academic scholarship, I went to Hillsborough Community College, because it was walking distance from my home in Plant City, Florida. The only majors offered that even remotely interested me were economics, but I was young and didn't like that. I switched to Electronics, which was an interest of mine since childhood (electronics projects and such) and commuted to the Tampa campus, but my grades went down because I was just a kid. I didn't like the commute and went to the Plant City campus again, and my grades went down, losing my scholarship; i was just a kid. Then in 1988, I went to and graduated with a 2-year AS degree from United Electronics Institute, now doing business as Florida Metropolitan College.
I didn't get any good jobs, and then, later, in 1996, when I figured out that I really wanted to study genetics, I went to Florida State University, graduating with honors and a double major, Biological and Chemical Sciences. However, I pursued some various court cases, acting as my own lawyer, and eventually almost won my case to get Terri Schiavo basic medical help, but lost a heartbreaking close call in our state's high court. Nonetheless, I hope to get a job in my field after this case in more or less over.
Well, I sure agree with you that constant monitoring for vandalism is a MAJOR WASTE OF financial and human RESOURCE$$$!@ So, do you think my proposal to register editors and screen them is a good idea? Also, what do you think about the coincidences in courses of study here?-- GordonWattsDotCom 2 July 2005 05:52 (UTC)
(Some duplication is likely below)
Hi. If you mean Russian ships, that were seriously damaged during the very first Japanese night torpedo attack on 8/9 February, they were Tsesarevitch, Retvizan and Pallada only. This information comes from numerous Russian sources. Bayan and Askold were undamaged and used in a battle with on the following day (they were slightly damaged during the battle, but it was not dangerous). The three mentioned ships were repaired by June and took part in the battle of the Yellow Sea (Battle of Shantung), apart from Bayan, which was in a meantime damaged by a mine (by the way, after battle of the Yellow Sea Askold was interned in Shanghai, Diana in Saigon and Nowik was sunk near Sakhalin, so they were not sunk in Port Arthur). Generally, only after battle of the Yellow Sea, Russian ships undamaged stayed in Port Arthur and waited for sinking... Medium artillery was partially dismounted from Russian ships about June, before the battle.
Sources (in Russian):
and monographies of other ships (these books are available scanned here [10] and [11])
If you needed info on Russian on Japanese ships, I can help you (I "dug" into this subject a lot, when writing Polish wiki article). Pibwl 28 June 2005 10:46 (UTC)
Well, to aclarify your doubts on the Joseon on Tsushima, you may wish to look up [12]. However, from what it is written in wikipedia and the source stated, I believe that "true" Korean control of Tsushima lasted from the Oei Invasion of 1419 to Toyotomi Hideyoshi's attack of Korea in 1592. Tsushima was a dependency according to Homer Hulbert, so Tsushima was also presumed to be under Korean control as well. Got to go. Mr Tan 2 July 2005 06:41 (UTC)
See: User Talk:Mr Tan/English <<<--- The Disappearing Subpage Mystery... appended somehow to his talk Fra nkB 6 July 2005 22:25 (UTC)
That was a lie. Did you read the link I provided you on the above? Tsushima was colonised by Joseon [13], and Korean maps included Tsushima as part of its territory until 1860 (see maps) [14]. Mr Tan 2 July 2005 11:36 (UTC)
All I could say is that; just read the links in the webpages I provided, and the reasons to your "lie" can be found there.
There are a lot more webpages explaining the lie. I can't find very official sources, but I believe Korean news sources "Yonhap", "Donga", "Andongkim" should be acceptable, for the entire population of South Korea reads it daily. If you still could not fully trust me, I could try to find for more sources on the net, and that is what I did (partially) to supply information to wikipedia, somewhat indirectly. Cheers! Mr Tan 3 July 2005 05:53 (UTC)
Post to category:Geography of China Hi! I don't know how to add a category, but I started by copying category templates in Sydney Aus., well it's harbor. In any event, I've tagged and categorized three 'Bays of China' All off the 'Bo Hai', which article is in error, and I'll be fixing. (The Bohai Wan (Bay) is the arm of the Bo Hai, an sea. My 'good deed' has backfired in redlinks in the categories! Help! Thus it would be real nice if someone were to add 'Bays of China' for wiki world wide consitency! Thanks User:Fabartus || Talkto_FrankB 29 June 2005 00:14 (UTC) Retrieved from " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_talk:Geography_of_China" After seeing Diff from Watchlist:
reply:
Thankyou for your time and answer. I hope that I made the small issue clear. My view is that 'Bays of China' is a proper sub-category of Geography of China, and should be added there; that of course means you should revert your change to the article as well. If not, the other two Bays on BoHai Sea need changed as well. No matter what, at least two changes are needed.
I have no expertise about Chinese geography...I hope Maureen has solved your problem. (Yes, the act of putting a category into a parent category turns it from a red link into a blue link...) -- Beland 3 July 2005 09:49 (UTC) of Foo subcats
I moved User/fabartus/scratchpads/Bat of PortArthur (in article namespace) to User:Fabartus/scratchpads/Bat of PortArthur (your user namespace) and deleted the resulting redirect. -- User:Docu
You're welcome. Most of my edits are small things like spelling fixes, link disambiguation, etc. So that's why I mark them as minor. Sietse 3 July 2005 06:18 (UTC)
I suggest you post a message on WP:AN to ask people with more copyvio experience for their view. I've got no knowledge at all about the articles you suggested to merge, so I'm afraid I won't be much help in that at all. I think asking for input at the village pump or the help desk will gather more interested parties. Sorry for not being more helpful. -- Mgm| (talk) July 3, 2005 09:05 (UTC)
Thanks for the idea about contacting the ISP. Right now there doesn't seem to be enough of a problem (the vandal who's using the ISP just seems to be a casual vandal, not one of the hardcore ones) to go through the effort, but it's something to think about if the problem escalated a lot. Thanks, JYolkowski // talk 3 July 2005 19:23 (UTC)
You're welcome. Most of my edits are small things like spelling fixes, link disambiguation, etc. So that's why I mark them as minor. Sietse 3 July 2005 06:18 (UTC)
In reply to your e-mail, see Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page for the process for archiving pages. Thanks, JYolkowski // talk 4 July 2005 01:15 (UTC)
Cheers as well :) what can I say, edit wars are bad for your health. WP:RFC sometimes helps. R adiant _>|< July 4, 2005 09:40 (UTC)
You're right, I am from New Zealand, though I know little about the military.
A comprehensive list of militaries should be at List of militaries (or somethign of the like) if that page doesn't already exist, and looking at Category:Militaries, I wonder if the section "Specific militaries" should be on that page at all. Perhaps, make List of militaries and link to it from a see also section on Military, and remove that specific militaries section altogether? (With that, I've decided not to add New Zealand to that list at the bottom of that page; I don't mean to be a pain, but I don't think it's the best path from here.)
The military article is a bit short for its nature, don't you think? To be honest, I don't know anything about military and I'm not interested in the military either. For avenues to other countries, you could try the lists of wikipedians by country (if you haven't already). Neonumbers 2 July 2005 11:39 (UTC)
You've requested my input on this article a while back. I'm sorry to say I know next to nothing about the subject and my ability to research it is nearly non-existent as well. I suggest you ask someone else. Maybe User:Radiant!? - Mgm| (talk) July 4, 2005 18:00 (UTC)
You may wish to know that I added to this article, particularly in the See Also section AlMac 5 July 2005 07:32 (UTC)
Finlay McWalter answered your question on my talk page. And just so you know. I just started using a bot myself and I'm nowhere near a wiz in that field. If you want to talk to someone about bots AllyUnion is your best bet. - Mgm| (talk) July 5, 2005 05:13 (UTC)
The Japanese version of the Tsushima Yuko page says her first book was published when she was 24 so I have erased the date and left her age. I think that fixes it. Thanks for pointing out the discrepancy. I also voted on the Tsushima Island(s) Talk page. I voted 'Tsushima Island' or 'Tsushima (island)'. In either case, singular.
Just noticed that you seemed to have a long conversation going on with Mr Tan. Might I suggest that you use your good books with him and convince him to remove the en-N tag he has on his user page? It might lead to some unpleasant comments towards him. Might I suggest you archive this page periodically? It takes up less Bandwidth. =Nichalp «Talk»= July 4, 2005 19:24 (UTC) From Nick's Talk Archives: re: Your request to persuade MT on something:
I don't see any probs with the test! =Nichalp «Talk»= July 7, 2005 07:29 (UTC) From Nick's Archive10 page:
Well, there seems to be a lengthy RFC about him, which already has at least one admin (Mel Etitis) involved. I'd suggest you ask him what to do; if the RFC isn't working it's possible to take the matter to the ArbCom ( WP:RFAr). R adiant _>|< July 7, 2005 11:08 (UTC)
Hello. Thanks for your note. I'm afraid I simply do not have the time to be involved in more than the handful of projects I work on now. I looked at the Talk page to see if it was perhaps a relatively straightforward issue I could make a quick contribution to, but it's an involved dispute that will take too much time if I'm to contribute meaningfully. Thank you for asking anyway. Regards,~ Neuroscientist | T | C July 7, 2005 18:04 (UTC)
Thank you; the versions are mentioned on the Talk page under the section Which Version, and should still be current. Since the fundamental cause of difference is the order of the whole article after the section=head Criticisms, the diff is not likely to be particularly informative, I regret to say. Try reading each version separately, and see which is clear (if either, he said modestly).
My most recent version is this one which is also [http: //tinyurl.com/c6wl5 here], in tinyurl. NOTE: TINY.URL
I see WHEELER is also back, if you have encountered him
This appears to be right.
Septentrionalis 7 July 2005 19:25 (UTC)
Hey, thanks for the note on my talk page. :) Honestly, though, I have no opinion on the name of the article. I simply used the plural where I did because the article is currently named with "islands" rather than "island." Actually, I'm off to make sure I got all of those verbs in the same conjugation there.... XD -- User:Jenmoa 8 July 2005 20:50 (UTC)
-- Jpbrenna 8 July 2005 21:47 (UTC)
See: User_talk:Dragons_flight#Naming_Inspiration Dragons flight July 9, 2005 00:00 (UTC)
Yes, I know you asked me earlier, but I'm afraid I got confused by your lengthy wording. Okay, so there's an RFC already, sorry that I forgot about that (busy week). If this turns out to be not working, especially if the subject is being hostile (e.g. personal attacks), it would be a logical step to take the matter to the ArbCom. The question, really, is whether Mr Tan has repeatedly broken any rules after being warned; the most common violations in this case being edit warring, personal attacks, frivolous accusations, ignoring consensus, assuming bad faith, not responding to talk pages and adding inappropriate items to articles.
So what you should try is if you can explain, cleanly and concisely, and with evidence, if the user has been seriously disruptive to the project, as indicated above. Explain it to me first, if you want; pointing to a lengthy talk page and asking people to read thru it is not really going to work. If this turns out to be not possible, the answer would be that Mr Tan is one of those users that are annoying to some people, but nevertheless good contributors - and my advice would be to bear with it, discuss, or ignore and go to some other article. Yours, R adiant _>|< July 9, 2005 06:30 (UTC)