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You deleted ALL the images on the club penguin article! That was RUDE!
Please see Wikipedia_talk:Avoid_self-references#Category_descriptions. -- User:Docu
Carl, Thanks for your message about the "Books" image. I've changed the licence to "no rights reserved".
Hi, wvbailey here. Are you familiar at all with Finsler's Formal proofs and undecidability (1926)? This appears in van Heinjenoort on p. 438ff. According to Dawson (Godel's biographer) Finsler tried to claim priority over Godel 1930-1931 and Godel countered that "it contain[s] obvious nonsense" (Dawson p. 89); Dawson says that Godel admitted to not being aware of Finsler's paper.
But van Heijenoort, in his commentary, is far less critical than Godel. van H. does seem to agree that Finsler "presents an example of a proposition that, although false, is formally undecidable" (p.438). [A question then: Is this the first "valid" Entscheidungsproblem proof?] He says that both Finsler and Godel, in the same way, "skirt the Richard paradox without falling into it", and van H. explains how this happens. What I like about Finsler's demonstration is its very simplicity (uses binary, creates a Cantor diagonal that is "1111...." ad infinitum, etc etc). van H does goes on to say that Finsler more-or-less missed Godel's point about strict use of formal systems. My question is: others who have read this proof and commented on it, what do they think? Have you ever encountered anything about Finsler or his proof? Finsler doesn't even have a bio in wikipedia. Thanks wvbailey Wvbailey 18:07, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
I typed it in myself but I think I found the equation somewhere else...
Either way, to recreate it (with the calculator in 3D mode) set:
...and let it graph. Cool stuff... Nrbelex ( talk) 00:53, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
I'm happy to license it under whichever gives it the most freedom to be used while within the limits of the law regarding screen shots. If possible I'd also like to maintain the caption, though this isn't essential. Nrbelex ( talk) —The preceding signed but undated comment was added at 00:58, August 20, 2007 (UTC).
I undid your removal of the Kean Logo which you think is a non free image.
Please check your facts before doing things like this.
Thank you.
-- akc9000 ( talk • contribs • count) 17:04, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Hi CBM--thanks for contributing to the American Regions Mathematics League page. I noticed you recently took down the logo. I believe the logo is covered by Fair Use and, while it is true that one may not recognize the logo without already knowing it, I believe an encyclopedia must also cover relevant bits of exposition that is new to the reader, and I feel the logo fits right into this category. I would love to hear your comments. :) mitcho/芳貴 12:59, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
Hello, this is a message from
an automated bot. A tag has been placed on
Club Penguin Locations, by another Wikipedia user, requesting that it be
speedily deleted from Wikipedia. The tag claims that it should be speedily deleted because
Club Penguin Locations was previously deleted as a result of an
articles for deletion (or another
XfD)
To contest the tagging and request that administrators wait before possibly deleting
Club Penguin Locations, please affix the template {{hangon}} to the page, and put a note on its talk page. If the article has already been deleted, see the advice and instructions at
WP:WMD. Feel free to contact the
bot operator if you have any questions about this or any problems with this bot, bearing in mind that this bot is only informing you of the nomination for speedy deletion; it does not perform any nominations or deletions itself.
CSDWarnBot
23:45, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
Hi Carl,
please run your script to pull out the following information of all WP Math articles: - the templates {{citation}}, {{cite book/journal}} (I hope I don't forget an important citation template) including the leading and finishing {{, }} - along with every occurrence of such a template in some article, the categories the article page is contained in
You don't have to somehow squeeze the category information into the template, I'll think about that later myself. You can email me the results. Thanks very much. Jakob.scholbach 05:58, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
The spoiler tag was for Takezo Kensei's ability. I was just looking for who was going to be in it this season (actors and actresses), not spoiler plot info like he's immortal. -- Nealparr ( talk to me) 14:32, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
Can you please do me a favour? I'd like you, who is an admin, to edit that page, by adding a sentence saying that if the person who wish to register found that the desired name is already been registered, he/she/it may go to
Wikipedia:Changing username/Usurpations to request for using that username, if that username has no log at all (Except user creation log). I make this request because once I've changed my name from Edmundkh, then re-register with that name. Now I'm regret for doing that, so I'd like to help the person who wish to register with that name.
Thanks for helping! --
Edmund the King of the Woods!
03:26, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
If someone else wants to take that name, and you give permission, the usurpation will be automatically granted. Ordinarily, usurpation is reserved for established users, so users just getting a new account can't use usurpation. So I don't think it would be appropriate to put a note about usurpation on that page when new users can't take use it. — Carl ( CBM · talk) 03:29, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
Hi, you have removed Image:Gravitation.png from the Kepler-Poinsot polyhedron article a couple of times, and I have restored it. Before this gets to be a habit, could you check out the Fair Use explanation on the image page, so we can agree on the way to go? Cheers, -- Steelpillow 21:01, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
thanks for your message. not sure exactly how to proceed. i'd asked someone in rochester to take that picture specifically for the article and allow me to upload it. he did and i did. i thought i'd tagged it properly - that permission had been granted by the photographer to post the photo. what else do i need to do, or which tag should i use instead to clarify the matter? J. Van Meter 14:09, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
WarthogDemon has smiled at you! Smiles promote
WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Happy editing!
Smile at others by adding {{
subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.
- WarthogDemon 23:59, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
I'm going to have to search through my email archives to see if I still have this; this preceded the use of OTRS to archive these things. However, we can only use these images by claiming fair use in any case; the Denver Public Library was willing to grant specific permission but not blanket free licensing. I simply noted the permission to ensure people realised that there were no legal complications possible here. Matthew Brown (Morven) ( T: C) 21:07, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
Please see the talk page of the uploader and read the image description page before you put silly tags on images. It clearly says the copyright holder themself uploaded the image. The user's identity is confirmed by OTRS on their talk page. - Nard 13:46, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
I see no evidence of "denseness". Perhaps you could rephrase in a more civil fashion, Nard? KillerChihuahua ?!? 14:06, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
User:CBM/verifypermission has been marked for deletion. Please see the discussion at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:CBM/verifypermission. - Nard 13:56, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
Hi, Carl! This is Angel David. I meant that you must put the template: {{ edit protected}} in <nowiki></nowiki> form. The template was made so it could be put to the reason it was created-to tell the admins to edit. It's kind of hard to under stand but you will learn some day. Or after you just read this message.-- Angel David ( talk• contribs) 00:27, 26 August, 2007 (User Talker Contributor)
I wanted to comment about the editprotected requests I disabled. I didn't think they were bad ideas, just that changes to the mediawiki interface should be well advertised, and changes to image licensing should be even more widely advertised. Otherwise it just leads to long arguments when someone realizes it was changed "behind their back". Please don't take any offense. — Carl ( CBM · talk) 00:58, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
I can understand why the text was removed, however there were some parts to the summary that weren't copied straight from another page (which was done long before I started editing the article), that you deleted also. I'm going to edit the pages again with summaries of the Marvel summaries - but it's a little hard to write about something with only one source of information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bronzie ( talk • contribs) 06:22, August 26, 2007 (UTC)
Oops, I'd forgotten about those images, and no one warned me about the licenses before you came along. Sorry about that, I was such a noob when I uploaded these. :-| I've fixed the licenses now though. -- SilentAria talk 15:47, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
I believe I still do, But it is in SPanish.-- Charleenmerced Talk 20:12, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
Hi. Re the Childers pic, I wasn't the person who got the permission. It was a user called JJ. I simply left details clarifying it. I did speak many years ago to the then Assistant Press Officer to the President of Ireland and she said Wikipedia could use the pictures of the presidents from the presidential website but we weren't specifically talking about the Childers pic. The problem is that there is unlikely to be any other image available better suited than his official one. All the others will be the copyright of media outlets.
FearÉIREANN
\
(caint)
03:00, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for the thinly vield threat to delete all the images I've uploaded to Wikipedia. Please be very, very careful that you do not delete all of them, since most are photographs that I have taken and are in full compliance with Wikipedia's new, highly restrictive and bizarre "non-free" image policies. Over agressive editing is attempting to denude Wikipedia of perfectly legimate images, and frankly, it's a stupid mistake. But if it makes people feel good to conduct Jihads like this, more power to them. - Nhprman 03:36, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
OK I've added the email exchange to the image talk page. Have just removed actual email addresses to preserve privacy! Bluewave 10:55, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
If you look on the page, it says that the permission has been granted by Brodack herself. Henceforth I am deleting your tag on the image. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yeahwhynot ( talk • contribs) 17:11, August 25, 2007 (UTC)
I hold the copyright on behalf of Brodack. | Yeah why not? | » Reply » | 08:35, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
I've been looking for it for a while, if i cant find it, i'll get her to send an email or something. | Yeah why not? | » Reply » | 16:47, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Hello. What don't you understand about the copyright tags? It's fair use as an album cover, but it has been released into the public domain by its creator. I ran it by him to be sure, and his reply was that all of the images on his website were public domain. The Evolution Control Committee is well known for advocating free use of all intellectual property. Is there some other way this information should be conveyed? Aelffin 01:18, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
-trying to write up the cc-by-sa letter of release to forward to the photographer of this image and i notice the standard letter says "the right to use the work in a commercial product". i was under the impression that the release of an image was for non-commercial uses only. (ie, seems only fair that if i'm asking someone to release their rights to an image, someone else shouldn't be able to come along and make money off of using the same image). is there a non-commercial use only way to go with this -- or is it all or nothing. just curious. thanks. J. Van Meter 15:16, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
Because it seemed you were the one who put the article up for deletion and/or protected it, can you please add Image:Akatsukispread.jpg onto the upper right hand corner of List of Akatsuki members so that, while it still exists, will have an image on the upper-right hand corner (which seems to be a requirement on Wikipedia). You're an admin, so it seems you can ignore protections. Artist Formerly Known As Whocares 20:47, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
You asked me to prove I've been given permission to put the image here but I am unsure how to go about this. I emailed them and they sent over a folder of images. There isn't much to show. ( Emperor 02:52, 30 August 2007 (UTC))
hope it's ok, but i'm going to remove the email address on the permission letter for the Little Theater photo. privacy issues and all. if there's a problem with that, let me know. J. Van Meter 14:44, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
Both of the photos used have been used with the express permission of the copyright holders. In addition, both photos are well established and have been in use for a long time. Quit stuffing straw men and find something constructive to do. Michaelh2001 16:23, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
The image is certainly replacable, unfortunatly I don't live in Warsaw so I can't do it easily. The owner gave us permission for use a year ago; I send him an @ asking for a free licence for the photo. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 16:44, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
Sorry for the talk page clutter. Like Piotrus, I sent the owner a email asking to use the photo in Wikipedia, and the owner gave me permission to do so. I was uncertain which license to state it was under, so I used the fair use tag. But based on their response it should be acceptable to use in Wikipedia and works based on Wikipedia. I don't know of any replaceable images for it. So I don't think it should be deleted. I could use some guidance in this issue, though. Jimmy C. 17:34, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
Hi. I have recieved permission from the label owner of Pickled Egg records regarding the image in question, and additionally am in contact with the band themselves occasionally. Nigel has already granted usage of the image in question, and I'm sure I can get a release from the band as well (they are, however, rather hard to get hold of). I will be away until Monday at a festival; could you please hold off on deleting this image until I have a chance to sort things out? Thanks, and thank you for the courtesy of informing me on my talkpage as well, which many people do not do when tagging FU images! -- Kaini 18:12, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
Thank your for your explanation. As soon as the ban on editing is lifted from that article, I will provide the proper source and modify my contribution to have it meet Wikipedia's standards. -- rafvrab 03:10, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for creating this quick fix, it's nice to have the script functional again. ˉˉ anetode ╦╩ 08:26, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
No free images exist or can be created. Please leave the images alone and move on. I'm sure your intentions are good but you are wrong in these two cases. Lets just move on. I ask that respectfully. Michaelh2001 16:37, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
How come the image was marked for deletion and in fact, removed completely? The image came directly from her personal blog, and full permission was sought and granted by her and her management company to use the picture on Wikipedia. I know it's not under a free commons license, but full permission to use the picture on Wikipedia was duly granted. This was stated alongside the image but it was still removed.
Does Wikipedia have a policy of only allowing free images now, regardless of granted rights or permissions from other sources?
WikiPedia's information on copyright and images is so complicated and convoluted, it's a wonder many people put as much time as they do in to contributing to articles. If permission-given pictures are not allowed, it should be clearly stated on the copyright pages, as apposed to the circular entries currently on the subject.
If Wikipedia wish to be that strict on it's permission-given images, why not watermark them as "Wikipedia Use Only" so it's clearly stamped across the picture and then can't be used anywhere else?
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.211.145.251 ( talk) 10:09, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for deleting those pics off the Gary Whitta page. Both were totally free and released for wikipedia use by their authors, and I had included that informatino on those pages. But you deleted them because I must have used the wrong tag or something silly.
Double thanks for complete deletion even though it hasn't been seven days since the notice was posted. A+++!
-- shift6 20:43, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
I disagree with your last edit summary. The spoiler tags are nescessary because that section gives away all of the suspense about 2/3 of the way through the plot details. I hate spoiling a book that someone is reading, and I think it would be very helpful to have the spoiler warnings.
p.s. please respond on my talk page, thanks
Connör ( talk) 21:48, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
There is a new subthread having proposed language for Wikipedia:User page. You previously commented on this matter and your comments at Collection of material proposed language would be appreciated. Hopefully, we can bring this to a close with the next day or two. -- Jreferee ( Talk) 18:16, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
Template:WPRT2 is messed up on Talk:Vaimanika_Shastra and has this same problem on other pages can you fix this-- Java7837 21:36, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
Well how about it? You are someone, how about going to Automobiles Venturi and clicking that tab that says move page? Consensus has nothing to do with making the move. The article just has the wrong name. 199.125.109.44 03:29, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
What? You want me to create "moveventuri" as a username and never use it again? That is silly. 199.125.109.35 23:19, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Re: this comment, I am willing to take a look at Peano axioms again. You probably already know about my draft version, which I think is currently a drop-in replacement for the main article. Sorry for the long delay in responding, but I was kept away from Wikipedia by real life. — Kaustuv Chaudhuri 08:39, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Carl, I appreciate that you are doing what you think best for the encyclopedia. So am I. One of the other advocates for a strong interpretation of policy restrictions on non-free content, Videmus Omnia, recently brought a request for arbitration to help sort out the way in which discussions are proceeding. Unfortunately, it looks like arbitration don't want to touch it; but even so, I am just letting you know that I have raised as an issue the multitude of different pages that get involved in these divisive discussions. I did not mention you by name, and so it is entirely up to you whether you would like to comment on your own behalf or not. But as a courtesy, I am letting you know that it is on file. See: Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration#Non-free_media_at_Intelligent_design. Cheers — Duae Quartunciae ( talk · cont) 14:49, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for nothing Carl. You have succeeded in making an article less than what it could be by deleting an image for which the owner approved use.
From : Richard Morris <RMorris@shp.org> Sent : Thursday, May 31, 2007 10:28 AM To : cdman882 Subject : RE: Author Troy Tompkins (Troy CLE)
your welcome to use it. -R Morris
You see, that is why I am very close to ceasing my efforts to edit on Wikipedia. Too much red tape and bureaucracy. -- Cdman882 15:34, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
or so it would seem.— DCGeist 16:43, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
It's an important event in both the characters' lives, which you'd know if you knew anything about them. -- DrBat 12:12, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Thank you. :) [[User:ea . Aelffin 12:49, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
At 06:22 AM 8/27/2007, you wrote: Hey Mark, some Wikipedia editors are getting pissy about image copyrights. Would you mind providing a quote I could put on the images I uploaded from your website? Something to the effect of “I’m Mark Gunderson and I approve this image.” Thanks! Have fun at the burn! (jealous) -Nathan Hi Nathan; you have the permission of myself (TradeMark Gunderson) and The Evolution Control Committee to use materials of all kinds (including images, audio, video, and text) in any way you see fit. Such as Wikipedia. Thanks! - TradeMark G. :.e.c.c.: -- ecc@evolution-control.com "It was twenty years ago today..." or ecc@pobox.com The Evolution Control Committee http://evolution-control.com Established 1987 SKYPE: trademarkg ... ICQ: 1353166 ... AIM: TradeMarkECC MYSPACE: www.myspace.com/theecc ... YAHOO: evolution_controlled_creations TRIBE: http://people.tribe.net/trademarkg ... GMail/GTalk: gunderson.mark@gmail.com
Well, the words he used the first time I emailed him were "public domain" and I take "use in any way you see fit" to indicate exactly that. It doesn't matter though. This email is sufficient to ward off those editors who would prefer to erode Wikipedia's function by obstructing the use of images. Thanks for your time. Have fun with your image vandalism. Aelffin 04:52, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
{{ editprotected}} Dear Administrator CBM, I am requesting immediate removal of material on the wikipage Archdiocese of Miami that you locked in under the version edited by DominvsVobiscm. Specifically, allegations by Sharon Bourassa's dismissed lawsuit saying our priests are all practicing homosexuals who steal church funds to live exhorbitant lifestyles, the ownership in the liquid aphrodisiac which happens to be this http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-149600240.html , everything in this section. As you can see by visiting the third party reference to the supposed liquid aphrodisiac, the beverages sold by this company are marketed as "energy drinks". No where does this company say that it is selling a liquid aphrodisiac. In no newspaper is it reported that any of these drinks are aphrodisiacs that are sold in gay bars. I would also like to point out that there are no references that Wikipedia would allow to sustain having any of the material in this section, yet you are clearly allowing it to stay. I searched for any third party references to any investigations of any Archdiocese of Miami priest for stealing money and there are none. I searched for any third party references to find any kind of evidence that would sustain an accusation that over 400 priests are sexually active homosexuals. There are none. Wikipedia policy states that extraordinary claims must have extraordinary sources. This does not exist to sustain these claims. I have four school age children here. Sharon Bourassa and her tiny catholic hate group told entire schools full of children, including my own that the priests they have loved and known all their lives are practicing homosexuals because they own real estate (just like doctors do when investing) with other priests. (Archdiocese of Miami requires their priests to provide for their own retirement) I watched my child cry for over two hours and she only stopped after I told her that her own father owns a hunting cabin with his hunting friends, owning real estate does not mean a person is an active homosexual, nor that they have bought it with stolen funds. One priest lives in a home on the intracoastal. He is an only child who has lived in this home most of his life with his parents. When his parents died, he inherited the home which is three blocks from his parish. Sharon Bourassa assumes that since it is on the intracoastal, it is a luxury home he owns with stolen parish funds. This is such a horrible defamation of good, innocent priests who have been loving and kind to our kids and it is so painful to see this garbage being proclaimed on Wikipedia, with your help and approval. Please remove this material that clearly violates wikipolicies WP:Redflag, WP:Proveit, WP:NPOV#undue weight, and WP:RS If you visit the mediation page of John Favalora you will see many editors who have a consensus that this material should be removed. The only person who wants this material on this site is DominvsVobiscm. If you visit his talk page you will see how many times he has been reprimanded for vandalizing Catholic sites in Wikipedia. This is not an unbiased Wiki editor. This is a person using Wikipedia to turn Catholic sites into anti Catholic propaganda. I intend to turn this informatin over to the Catholic League for prosecution if it is allowed to stay. NancyHeise 14:10, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi, thanks for visiting the protected Fred Thompson article in response to my request for an immediate edit. You said that a previous version is only restored if the current version contains false info. However, the protected version does contain false information. It starts as follows: Freddie Dalton "Fred" Thompson. There is no document on the face of the Earth that writes the man's name like this. It has never been written this way anywhere by anyone. The editor who wrote it has not cited any instance in human history where it has been written this way. It is false. Ferrylodge 19:16, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Could you please unprotect this article as it has been requested? The new version seems to satisfy all the involved editors (as some of them participated in writing and refining it). TIA. Alæxis ¿question? 19:46, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Carl, I've been noticing you around free / non-free content stuff recently. I'm impressed with your knowledge and calm. (I am especially impressed by the latter, as it is something I lack!) Thanks for promoting free content while you are at it. :-) -- Iamunknown 21:05, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
You have left a message on my page attesting to your will to delete the 'Doc Gyneco' image, which, you argued, did not follow rules.
I went through a decent amount of effort for the photographer of the subject to release the image for use in Wikipedia. I did so, because I could not find other not-copyrighted images. The photographer who took the picture specifically allowed me to use it.
I will now proceed to bring the image back, and add a tag on it that you said I would need. If you wish to delete it again, then do so - with the knowledge that Wikipedia will certainly suffer from it, by rejecting quality material even if it used legally (in any sense of that word.)
Regards, -- DragonFly31 21:31, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
I've just read the free/non free guidelines, and it is still beyond my imagination as to why you would want to delete the image. All 10 points of the guidelines can easily be argued for the safekeeping of the image, and your deleting it only served to lower the general Wikipedia standard. I'm not going to upload it again, for the simple reason that I cannot find it - but the reason I uploaded it is it was a very good picture taken by a famous photographer (Roberto Frankenberg), who came in contact with me specifically to use it in this encyclopedia...
My point being, while it may be useful to delete certain images which don't carry free liscences, here the article has been severely apoverished by a lack of image (which, it is obvious, is key for the viewer to not only visualize the article he is reading about particularly in this case but also keep him interested in reading more).
Hence, it is because of such trivial deleting, for the sake of just doing so, and the awful use of common sense and reason such as you have shown that alter this encyclopedia in a negative way and contribute to its negative reputation. Just because another user agreed with you does not make your descision right, even by your invoked guideline's rules.-- DragonFly31 09:30, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
Carl, If you can start your opening comment on the deletion reviews with Endorse, Relist or Overturn (depending on your point of view), it would probably help the closing admin as they read through the discussion. Thanks - Nv8200p talk 14:40, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi Carl. I just semi-protected a page ( Dependent and independent variables). It has been a while and I couldn't find where the proper procedure is explained. Do I need to do anything except for actually semi-protecting the page and putting Template:pp-semi-vandalism on it? There used to be a list of protected pages, but I believe that is no longer used. -- Jitse Niesen ( talk) 03:13, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
Our article on the Eiffel tower suggests that these images are not copyrighted in the United States Eiffel Tower#_note-15. These byzantine country-specific copyright laws are still confusing for me - could you explain exactly what are the relevant issues for photos of "copyrighted buildings" and Wikimedia commons? I need some help understanding this area. — Carl ( CBM · talk) 14:52, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for your assistance in that question. The source have appeared, but it is still unverifiable or very generalized. Alex Spade 16:16, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi, could you elaborate on this edit summary: "this was recreated because the license was now claimed to be free, but email to the copyright owner shows it is not a free image." What email are you referring to? Kaldari 19:07, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
- I'm inquiring about the copyright status of images of Time magazine covers such as the one at the link below. It is the cover from Aug 24, 1953:
- In response to a previous inquiry, I was informed by a representative from Wright's Reprints that the cover was still under copyright. However, a search of U.S. Copyright Office records for 1980 and 1981 reveals that no copyright renewal on the magazine, its cover, or any of its contents was filed within 28 years of original publication--such renewal would have been necessary to maintain Time Inc.'s copyright. If there was an error in this search, and Time Inc. did indeed file the required renewal, could you please give me the U.S. Copyright Office record number? If indeed the required renewal was not filed per then prevailing copyright law, does Time Inc. claim continued copyright on some other basis, or was the response from Wright's Reprints incorrect? Thank you.
I noticed you removed a spoiler tag on some novella. I would ask that you refrain from doing so for the rest of this week; a couple of editors asked me to conduct a sami-scientific survey on spoiler usage, and you can bet some of the pro-spoiler editors would be annoyed when they see its "the anti-spoiler brigade" at work. David Fuchs ( talk) 21:15, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
Great. Thanks for the research. Corvus cornix 22:50, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
I noticed that you had responded on the talk page of this template, so I'm turning to you for a bit of advice...
On the last run of my bot with this template, the category did not "pipe" the article name, instead it left included the talk page in the category and not the article. I had used "|category:Book stubs", which I thought would produce [[Category:Book stubs|article name]], however it simply put the [[Category:Book stubs]] (not piped) on the talk page, which means that the talk pages are transcluded to the category listing pages, and not the article pages themselves. I'm probably missing something really simple here - suggestions? SkierRMH 00:48, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
I would like to know why the edit request was declined on the page Archdiocese of Miami. The page is locked in its most offensive form, the information contains obvious violations of Wikipedia policy and lacks not only reliable but in some cases any references. NancyHeise 03:08, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
From: nancyheise@aol.com To: info-en-v@wikimedia.org Sent: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 12:14 am Subject: material locked on Archdiocese of Miami Wiki pages Dear Wikipedia,I am a Wiki editor user name NancyHeise which is also my real name. I am writing to alert you to material that has been locked on these Wikipedia sites:1) Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Miami http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_Archdiocese_of_Miami and 2)Roman Catholic Sex Abuse Cases http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_sex_abuse_cases. Requests for edits to material on these sites have been repeatedly denied. The pages are locked into their most offensive form submitted by user DominvsVobiscm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DominvsVobiscvm
As you can see from his talk page, DominvsVobiscm has been reprimanded several times for vandalising Roman Catholic Sites but is never blocked even when he violated the three revert rule. His vandalism is locked onto these two sites. The discussion pages of these sites is complete with consensus of all editors (except DominvsVobiscm) who reject his material listing the numerous Wikipedia policies it violates.Wikipedia states on its information page that vandalism is dealt with swiftly yet the Archdiocese of Miami page has been locked for a month.Please consider that the way that Wikipedia is reacting to this vandalism appears to be an endorsement of this blatant anti Catholic hate material. The evidence is very easy to copy and send to the Catholic League for prosecution. As a parishioner of the Archdiocese of Miami, I know there are groups of parishioners here who will not hesitate to do that. I am writing you to tell you that the way this material is being handled is only helping the case of a possible future lawsuit and/or negative media attention against Wikipedia. For a listing of the offensive material and why it should be removed, please see the three editprotected tags that have been denied edits on the discussion page of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_Archdiocese_of_Miami Thank you for your attention to this matter. Sincerely, Nancy Heise
Immediately upon the apparent lifting of a block for User:Northmeister, he maliciously deleted relevant comments by me on the talk page of Talk:Anchor baby. [2] This is apparently why he wanted his block lifted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ramsey2006 ( talk • contribs) 04:25, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
I note that you removed the, perfectly justified, disputed fair-use tag from the above image. As an administrator I would expect you to uphold the principles and legal obligations of Wikipedia, not ride roughshod over them. As the non-free book documentation itself states, each such book cover image needs "a detailed fair use rationale for each use, as described on Wikipedia:Image description page, as well as the source of the work and copyright information. Please include in your fair use rationale details of the particular edition (publisher, market & year of publication) of the edition you have used, and also acknowledge any cover artist if such artist is acknowledged in that edition's frontmatter". None of these conditions was properly applied, yet you removed the tag in any case. Why? Pyrop e 12:19, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
The OES cannot be verified by internet, but I beleive there have been a few handmade books - for instance, the 16th-century ones I mentioned in the article - that mention OES. I am not affiliated with the organization, but since I joined wikipedia for the purpose of making this information known, i chose it as my username. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Oes23 ( talk • contribs) 12:47, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
Can you see the second request then please? One Night In Hackney 303 13:09, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
There is not a content dispute on this article. There is one editor, who is engaging in a disruptive way to prevent this article being expanded. There have been numerous sources provided, which are both verifiable and reliably sourced. One Editor, has provided nothing but commentary and opinion. Despite this, you have said consensus is required? I think you will need to provide the policies which state clearly, that referenced information that is verifiable and reliably sourced can be omitted because one editor dose not like it. Having wasted enough time on this and another article with the same editor, I want to know how, you came to this conclusion, and the relevant policies which governed your decision. -- Domer48 13:17, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
I agree one editor can not hold an article to ransom I asked the blocking admin to have a look but he is unfortunatly ill at the moment and on a wikibreak. BigDunc 13:22, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
I have wasted enough time on this, I would like answers to the questions I have posed. I've put forward a number of references, not on of which has been disputed with references. So show me the policies where opinions are favoured over references. It is discisions like this which fuel disputes. And editors who can not back up a claim, prefare to have articles protected. -- Domer48 13:49, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi CBM
You unprotected Immigration to Australia yesterday. The edit war, infested with obvious socks, has broken out again. Please can you protect the wrong version again and perhaps knock some heads together? Thanks. Someone is bored at work 08:33, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Hello,
The image Vgsys.JPG has been deleted, because a lack of fair use rationale. The image (if not deleted) would qualify as fair use. I just didn't realize that no rationale had been given or that some was needed. The history page for the Video Game Console article seems like it says that you've used an automated tool to delete it. Is there any way to recover the image (archives, etc.) if I no longer have an offline copy of it.
Thanks, Altarbo 09:16, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Dear CBM, Thank you for responding to my edit protected tag on the Wikipedia page Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Miami. I would like to join the mediation group for this page and include the information that I supplied with the edit protected tag that you denied for editing. I think that information will be helpful to the mediation process. However, I see that the article has been referred to the Arbitration committee, I am not sure that my participation in mediation now will be included. How may I include my information for the Arbitrators to see? Is there a separate Wikipedia page for Arbitration that has been set up for editors to place items to be included into evidence? I can not find a link to any such page. Thank you in advance for your help. StacyyW 09:34, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
The behavior is confusing, but normal and expected (that's also the case with the current message, BTW). I've explained in more detail on the talk page; but if you want to see try doing a cut-and-paste of my sandbox version on an unexisting page and preview the change , then look at the result after being saved. You can see the same behavior with the current message. — Coren (talk) 03:21, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Hello Carl,
thank you very much for your help with pulling out the templates! I appreciate it a lot. It contains about 7.000 reference templates, which is a good amount of data to get at least the references which occur more often, i.e. all standard books etc.
I will need some time to prepare the items for adding them to the database. For example, some templates have "author= " and other malformatting. However, the general quality of the content is quite good. If you are interested in the details, have a look at a discussion with KSmrq at
my talk page.
Jakob.scholbach 15:40, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
The VeblenBot may be malfunctioning. The current versions of the following lists are definitely incorrect:
For example, Trigonometric function (a former Featured Article) currently appears in the list of Stub Class, Top Priority articles. Jim 18:47, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
There was no attempt to add information; it was the insertion of the nude photo, and links to the nude photo, that I was worried about. That said, I would watch what's added beyond what's already there; there's no need to add information unless it's relevant and sourced - specific rumors, etc. that obviously fail BLP shouldn't be added. I'll look over the talk page; I was on a business trip over the weekend and didn't have internet access. Ral315 » 01:08, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
Hey, Carl - the reason I changed the template to subst is that standardized license templates are required by WP:IUP - in this case, {{ cc-by-3.0}}. By substing Bollywoodblog, you convert it to the correct license tag with the additional text in this template. Also, if these images are moved to the Commons (as they probably will be), {{ Bollywoodblog}} doesn't exist there and the license tag will get garbled in the transition. Videmus Omnia Talk 02:52, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
Sorry about that, I should have known better. I've removed the pictures. I also should have made it clearer, those are just random FAs, not one's I've contributed to in particular. :) Sorry for any confusion... Bella Swan 12:27, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
I did extend my comment at Template talk:Ambox#Needs to clear at the same time you answered, and didn't get an edit conflict so I did not know. You might want to check that you answered all you wanted to what I wrote. -- David Göthberg 14:18, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi Carl. How do we get a user blocked? The IP address 70.64.76.208 vandalized Clifford torus and appears to have been warned repeatedly. Thanks. VectorPosse 23:45, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
I think you may have misinterpreted there. I certainly wouldn't challenge an entire article because "everything" failed to have a citation on it. On the other hand, I sure don't mind challenging an article for which nothing is cited, especially when I can't find anything reliable either. If I can, easier just to add some cites. But without that, I really do doubt the veracity and suitability of the article. We should mirror, not second-guess, reliable sources, so it follows that if reliable independent sources have chosen to write little or nothing about a topic, we should mirror them—by writing nothing or mentioning the subject in passing in a different article. I suppose you could consider it stylistic, but one function of editors (that thing we all are) is to challenge and cut for both factual and stylistic reasons. Seraphimblade Talk to me 04:16, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi. I thought you might wish to know that User:Monkeyspangler, who you blocked for link-spamming a few days back, appears to be at it again from two IPs: Special:Contributions/90.197.13.58 & Special:Contributions/90.197.13.40. Hrafn Talk Stalk 14:34, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
re:TfD nomination of {{ 1632 covers}}
Template:1632 covers has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. — Carl ( CBM · talk) 19:45, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
Carl, you've apparently intervened in the Simon Wessely problem. Could you confirm if you have unlocked the page? It appears to be still locked. If you have not unlocked the page as such, could you clarify what your comment meant, as it is not clear to me. Many thanks Angela Kennedy Angela Kennedy 17:01, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
Why was this update reverted? The beauty of wikipedia is that it can be at the cutting edge of new developments. You've obviously not seen the news recently, gardeners in Scotland have been conducting trials since 1989 about the logical patterns behind planting trees, and other assorted plants. They represent their findings using first order logic, because propositional logic does not easily allow for the domain (that is, the particular area of planting), to be taken into account. A simple search on google should confirm this if you are still unsatisfied, in the meantime I will be reverting to my edit of the article. Thanks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 79.67.229.108 ( talk) 16:06:10, August 19, 2007 (UTC)
Hi, I changed some words in an effort to make it read in an encyclopedic style, I hope that suffices. My original reason for adding to the article was that it read "most mathematicians do not doubt the consistency of ZFC". Technically this statement is true, but it is misleading. Most mathematicians do not know what the axioms of ZFC are!- Manifesto50 23:11, 8 September 2007
Thanks for your assistance with Tennenbaum's theorem -- I quite agree! Zero sharp 20:51, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
Hello. I would like to ask you to reconsider your revert on the NOR policy page for the following reasons:
In short, I personally feel that there is nothing wrong with the profusion of hidden comments to warn potential editors. I added it to every section (though extremely redundant), so that somebody couldn't say the just hit a section edit button and didn't see the warning. With the warnings so prominent, contentious edits (even if an amount of time has slipped by), can still be easily reverted back if proper policy hasn't been followed. Otherwise, much time is wasted talking back and forth to revert those edits that may have slipped through unnoticed or otherwise unchallenged at that time, with the original "inserter" arguing that it's been there unchallenged for a while.
I don't see the comments as hurting anything and I only made them in an attempt to offer a quick way out for any contentious future edits on a policy page that has seen an abnormal amount of editting within the last year. This is extremely bad for an official policy.
Thank you for considering this. wbfergus Talk 13:24, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Let's put any further comments on WT:NOR to keep the discussion together. — Carl ( CBM · talk) 13:40, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Do not set the CSS style {clear: both} on ambox since User:Dispenser suggested a much better solution that at least works perfectly in all my browsers. See examples that shows the new solution at Template talk:Ambox#Needs to clear.
-- David Göthberg 02:01, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for removing the comment from my talk page and handling the matter. It's appreciated. -- Rob 19:17, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for blocking this anonymous account, but you may want to check out Michael Dorosh. Since it is claimed right on that user page, I think it's pretty obvious that the anonymous IP is simply used as a sockpuppet for that account when it is under fire. You may also want to take a look at the pages created by that user that are currently tagged for speedy deletion. Thanks! -- Ioeth 21:22, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm a little surprised that we haven't generated any discussion yet. I wonder if we did such a good job that it's uncontroversial or boring to everyone. Do you think we should post a notice anywhere else like village pump? I think people were discussing / asking about it there. Perhaps WP:FURG though that's a quieter page, Wikipedia:copyright, WP:CSD? It's not canvassing because we're simply alerting people to an important proposal that they shouldn't miss. Wikidemo 23:27, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
Regarding Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/2007 September 17#Template:Infobox Oh My Goddess! character, I do think it would be fair to userfy it simply if anyone wanted to keep the history of it (for ideas, remembering how a certain look was achieved, etc). I did so with one such template during the 4th anime character infobox TfD, and no one seemed to have any objection to that. I don't know if anyone want to keep it for that reason, but I don't think it would be an unreasonable request, should the request be made. Just thought I'd put that out there. -- Ned Scott 04:01, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Why are you deleting Meerkat Manor more info's user page? Its their user page, they can do what they want. Cruise meerkat 02:06, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
Re: I appreciate that it can be hard to understand our licensing policies; we do take copyrights seriously, which makes the policies somewhat cryptic for new users. If you would like to give permission for others to use this image, the best way is to release it under a free license. Either of the GFDL or CC-BY-SA licenses is acceptable to us. If you agree to release the image under either of these licenses, all you have to do is send me an email that says you are the copyright holder and explicitly states the license you choose (you can use the "email this user" link on User:CBM). I will take care of all the details after that. If you have questions, feel free to contact me on my talk page. — Carl (CBM · talk) 00:43, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
Hey. I need some help fixing my signature, I can not save it into my preferences. Can you please help with this? Thanks.
STORMTRACKER 94 Stormtracker94 00:52, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
STORMTRACKER 94 Stormtracker94 00:58, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
STORMTRACKER 94 Stormtracker94 20:08, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
Would you be able to undelete this image, as I would like to write a fair use rationale for it? Carcharoth 16:34, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
It really seems to me that it's time for the spoiler tag on Sōsuke Aizen to go. The tag is right at the top of the page, which means that it doesn't discriminate between the "spoiled" content and any other kind of content.
A tag saying that the whole page is a spoiler isn't much help. Someone who wanted to read about Sōsuke Aizen without having their experience spoiled—I'm not sure who that would be, but let's assume they exist—wouldn't find any joy in a tag that covers the whole page.
What do you think??? Marc Shepherd 18:27, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
I replied on my talk page, thanks. Videmus Omnia Talk 21:45, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
Sorry for jumping at conclusions. I recently performes massive tagging of articles; I edited this article as well, and I thought it was my work reverted, without explanations as if I was an anon vandal. Apologies again. `' Míkka 01:35, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for looking into the picture issue. I'm still a bit new so all the rationale & tagging stuff is still a learning process for me. I'll remove the picture. Thanks again. :) Pinkadelica 06:10, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
It was I who contacted the Bollywood blog and got the license under 3.0. User:Riana and Videmus contacted the site also and recived an email of verification ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "Talk"? 11:41, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
Bill here,
I hear you. Thanks. I've developed a (bit) thicker skin over the 2 years I've been doing this, I had spent almost a whole day trying to figure out how to present it, and it got big. I'll be more careful about the long posts, or give a "warning" that I'm using the post as a "holding point" while I develop something. With respect to this I just didn't feel like I have any other recourse. The watchdogs will strip everything off the article page. This isn't the first time I've encountered this problem. I've even read wikipedia articles about this phenomenon of an uber-watchdog and his minions that circle around, Old-Man-in-the-Sea-like, to devour any carcass that happens to enter their water. Whether that's what's actually going on here, I don't know, it feels like it. And as you will see on the talk page, I may be pushing a POV that, although I can't take credit for it (blame Turing, Minsky, Enderton), is unusual. wvbailey Wvbailey 19:09, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I would like to see the Psychiatric abuse talk page, if possible. Thanks! -- Mattisse 02:16, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
re: Wikipedia:Non-free content criteria/Proposal
All the discussion of templates seems to be ignoring things in place such as: {{ Non-free media rationale}}. Why not discuss how such will be superceded, augmented, or changed to implement this measure? // Fra nkB 18:52, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
That is a really nice article. Crisp, clean, to the point. I thought Kleene had something to do with this, but I don't see it as "fixed point" in his 1952's index, nor in van H nor in Undecidable (not indexed as "fixed point", anyway). I'll keep my eyes open and report back if I see anything.
Whether Rosser's 1939 An Informal Exposition of proofs of Godel's Theorm and Church's Theorem (Undecidable p. 223) is apropos, I dunno. But Rosser is very interesting because of his elegant summary of Gödel 1931's development, plus Rosser's further expansion of it where he "call[s] attention to an extra assumption implicit in the "for suitable L" of lemma 1, namely that "z = φ(x,x)" be expressible in L, where φ(x,y) is the function defined below [etc]" (cf p. 227 in Undecidable). Rosser is the first place where I've seen this so cleanly presented. He footnotes that Godel had intended to do this, but because of illness did not.
This unwritten assumption apparently inside G's 1st incompleteness theorem has bothered me since I got enough background to be able to even attempt to follow his argument in the original. The other strange thing was the fact that a function could be Godelized, but so could a number be Godelized as a string of successor functions, and (the question of whether or not) they could be two representations of the same number, and if so or if not, what this would imply. I'll have to study the Diagonal lemma article carefully. Bill Wvbailey 17:29, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
Kleene 1943, also Kleene 1952:303: This isn't the same thing is it?
There's a bit of discussion after this, RE how truly broad this theorem is casting its net. Wvbailey 17:48, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the "splitting" explanation, this really helps. Lately I've been wondering about Tarski and his theorm, there's a bio in the bookstore but I don't know anything about his work. I will pursue. Thanks, Bill Wvbailey 19:10, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
I found, not the source of, but a hint at the nature of my confusion/association with Kleene: the article Recursion theorem also refers to Kleene's theorem(s) as the "fixed point theorem". I found "the theorem" indexed in Enderton as "fixed point lemma" and Boolos-Burgess-Jeffrey 2002 in a heading as "27.3 The Fixed Point and Normal Form Theorems" but in the index as "De Songh-Sambin theorem" (unclear if this is the same thing). I have yet to encounter "diagonal lemma" in an index. I have not found any attribution to Kleene or anyone else, for that matter.
The B-B-J version is a frightening presentation in "modal logic" with symbols ⃞ for necessity and "diamond" for possibly, and other unfamiliar-to-Bill symbols. With the strange bracketing it resembles the earlier version of the diagonal lemma article, i.e. before you edited it. Enderton (I believe), is more in the spirt of yours, e.g. using #(ε) to indicate a Godel number (cf p. 225). But yours is at least an order-of- magnitude more accessible than either of these.
Kleene's Normal Form Theorem is definitely 1943, reprinted in The Undecidable pp. 254ff. Carnap 1934 in the translation 1937 is indeed referenced by Kleene 1952 re use of language. Indeed ... in his 1943 §15 (Undecidable p. 281-282) I see Rosser, Tarski, Quine referenced in footnotes, and a "Carnap's rule" where Kleene is discussing something interesting: "Rosser has shown how Godel theorms arise on going very far in the direction of nonconstructiveness" etc. I get it: he is discussing "non-constructive logics" and "ordinal logics", i.e. "transfinite extensions of deductive reasoning." In his 1952 Bibliography Kleene warns that the reader should omit this §15 because of an error in his 1944 (!). But maybe there's something useful in Kleene's 1943 §15 discussion re non-constructiveness: it's over my head, I can't tell. Also see, in his 1952 index under his own name i.e. p. 527 in my edition (10th printing, emended in the 6th reprint 1971) where he criticises his own works 1943 and 1944. There is spooky stuff relative to Quine 1940. Bill Wvbailey 15:55, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
We just had an edit conflict: I was just writing to say I blundered. I looked right at "diagonal lemma" in the index and missed it. I have the 4th edition, (they added Burgess in this 4th edition 2002). The presentation was moved to chapter 17. There is indeed a Lemma 17.2; the write-up looks to be a good one. Thanks, Bill Wvbailey 16:23, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
I made a couple of minor edits on this project page and only later realised, at this stage, you were inviting coments on talk. Anyway, I hope I haven't done any harm. I'll now put a comment in its talk. Thincat 13:32, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
Why do the axioms include definitions of + and * (multiply)? Why not just define the signs + and * in terms of a string of symbols that include "zero" and "successor"? Is it because (some form of behavior, i.e.) induction (recurson?) is being (indirectly) defined via these axioms? Are the five schemata of primitive recursion considered to be an actual axiom schema? And if not, why not?
The reason I ask is two-fold: (1) One form of counter-machine model has the Peano-like instruction set { INCrement(r,next), CLeaR(r,next) Jump-if-equal(r1,r2,branch,next) } ("r" is a "register", a place that holds a (variable) quantity of "markers"). In this model we can define all the recursive functions. It is true that, when we tear the machine apart to see what it is really doing, we see modus ponens at work in the "next instruction" transformation and in the "conditional jump" transformation ("IF [r1]=[r2] THEN "branch" OR IF [r1]≠[r2] THEN "next", what we engineers call "AND-OR-SELECT"). I don't see that + and * are required anywhere, altho if they are it is probably in this primitive CASE instruction (but it would be a binary event, e.g. only two outcomes are possible for the Jump-if-equal instruction: 0*branch+1*next => next, or 1*branch+0*next => branch; here we don't need the full axiom set for + and *).
(2) The Kalmár bibliographic note in Kleene 1952:526 states that Kalmár proposed "as a basis for elementary functions", "the variables, 1, +, |a-b|, Σz (y=w), Πz(y=w)". [am confused: why, if we eliminate * we still have Π, but anyway...]. The Kalmár basis looks suspiciously like the "instructions" of the counter machine, where "+" is taking the role of "successor", and |a-b| is perhaps redundant, too. (The other counter-machine model, the Minsky version, requires |a-b| in the form: { INCrement(r,next), DeCRement(r,next), Jump-if-zero(r,branch,next) } ).
Do you know anything about this Kalmar business? Are there other bases such as Kalmar's even more primitive? Am I confusing "axioms" and "bases"? thanks, Bill Wvbailey 16:33, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
Hi Carl, There are now over 900,000 articles assessed by WikiProjects using the WP1.0 assessment scheme. Over at WP:1.0, we want to get a bot to sift through all of these data and select articles that meet the requirements for an offline release such as WP:V0.7. We had someone start writing a bot for this, but he has now moved onto other things (outside Wikipedia, I think) and he has lost all interest in the project. Would you be willing to help with writing a bot? VeblenBot has been giving us regular, valuable information on V0.7 - thank you for that! You can see an outline of the plans here, which are based on giving each article a "score" (additive or multiplicative) based on its quality and importance. Currently Version 0.7 (our next release) is completely stalled for want of this bot. Can you help? Thanks, Walkerma 20:27, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
Reference: Thom Hansen. Can you help me understand why the photo of Thom as Panzi was tagged for deletion by you on 30 August 2007? I am rather new to Wikipedia and do not understand all of the codes and rules here. The same picture is available publicly at http://www.fireislandinvasion.com/2panzi.htm and I have his permission to use it. He sent me the picture. Also, lots of his bio information was recently changed and deleted too. Thanks for any help you can provide. njcraig 12 October 2007 (UTC)
Why did you remove this template? Copyright issues are a serious concern on Wikipedia, and simply removing potential copyvio templates puts us at risk. Thanks in advance. / Blaxthos 13:38, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia has only one set of admins, but a user ignorant of how to do open heart surgery should not add material on how to do open heart surgery. Similarly if an an admin is so ignorant of mathematics that he does not know whether it's an assertion of notability to say that he doesn't know whether proving the existence of n-manifolds with no differentiable structure is or is not an assertion of notability, then he should leave it alone.
I put something there that I found in Kleene 1952; I needed an expansion re the notion of the "object theory" of its metatheory and the notion of a "model" of the object theory. I need a precise, firm and correct notion of formal system. You might want to fix what I wrote. Bill Wvbailey 20:14, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
Did you mean to apply indefinite full protection to this disambiguation page? Seems like sprotection would be more than enough to discourage anons and new users looking for the sandbox.--VectorPotential Talk 17:05, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
I thought that e-mail address was only for when images are released under a free license, not when Wikipedia gets permission to use an image that is otherwise unfree/fair use ( Wikipedia:Requesting copyright permission, where instructions on sending copies of permissions to that address are given, doesn't mention these cases). Wikipedia:Publicity photos mentions reprinting the mails on the image's talk page, but it's not policy or guideline, and I think I read some other other place that one shouldn't do that. -- Fritz S. ( Talk) 11:53, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
Carl: why was the image of Saskia Sassen deleted?... Oh... I just read what you posted on my talk page on Aug 30, and no the image is not replaceable: it is a photo of Professor Sassen, obtained from the person who took it and posted with permission, and it took a great deal of time & effort to understand & explain & arrange all that. I don't know of any other suitable & available photos of her, myself, and I did look pretty extensively back when I initially found this one. So would you please put the image back wherever it was before and let me know? I'll insert explanations of its irreplaceability wherever you want them, but I really don't want to go through the whole process of setting it all up again.
-- Kessler 00:22, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
"One way to continue to use this image would be to ask the photographer to release it under a free license (such as CC-BY-SA)"... I thought this is what it had. I'm sure I got that or something like it from him and posted it on the image page. I remember going back & forth with someone here originally on that. -- Kessler 01:01, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
Why on earth have you deleted my picture from the Wikipedia entry on me (Gary Howe)
I've seen you talking about 'copyright' issues, but if that's the case why don't you try and contact anyone before simply deleting it?
My picture was a silly picture of me taken by my wife and was clearly not a professional picture
In addition, what gives you the right to remove pictures from Wikipedia pages?
And it's clear that you've annoyed quite a few people with your ridiculous nannying attitude.
Gary Howe —Preceding unsigned comment added by Garyhowe100 ( talk • contribs) 18:01, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for adding the needed data on this image! - Ahunt 18:22, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
Based on these comments of 2 uninvolved admins, [5] [6] [7], your decision to institute zero RR and blocking instead of page protection was not supported by policy or guideline. I'd like an apology on my talk page please - I'm owed at least that. Odd nature 19:40, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
Have you even bothered to read the conversation, before issuing threats? There were four people in support of one version, two (last I checked) who said they didn't see the difference, and one who was going on about leftwing journalists and Bill Clinton who wanted to change the page because he didn't trust the sources. And you issue threats for that sort of nonsense? Guettarda 20:41, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
You blocked ON for reverting to the version that had 4:1 support? Seriously? You do know that we work on the basis on consensus, right? Guettarda 20:45, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
One edit in three days is not disruptive. On the other hand, threatening editors, blocking productive editors, inventing new rules on the fly - that is disrupting the project. I had a little while, logged in to work on an article...and I found your nonsense. I'd say your decision to waste everyone's time, to engage in threats, that's disruption. Odd Nature is a top class, highly productive editor. You seem to be trying to drive him out of the project. I'd call that disruptive. I'd call that hurting the project. Editing against consensus (and NPOV) is disruptive. Reverting edits like that isn't. We're here to write an encyclopaedia, not to build a better bureaucracy. Stop pretending it's the other way around. Guettarda 02:28, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
Me thinks something is rotten in the State of Denmark...CBM wouldn't happen to be from Copenhagen, would he?-- Filll 20:24, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
that seems wrong to me, however. Maybe I am not just understanding what is going on, but I am a bit suspicious. Sorry.-- Filll 21:24, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
I hesitate to comment on this since I am not involved in the original dispute. Nevertheless, what is wrong with you people? Carl is an admin for whom I hold a great deal of respect, and he has patiently and kindly tried to respond to your requests for explanation. All I see is a bunch of rude people piling it on. He graciously admitted that he is not perfect, and you all try to throw it back in his face. So you have a disagreement. Big deal. People disagree all the time, and most of the time, they manage to do it without all the sarcasm and taunting. I wouldn't even get involved except that everyday I check my watchlist and I see more and more people entering into the thread just to throw this crap around. Get over it and move on.
VectorPosse
20:50, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
I screencapped the latter image a long time ago (Dys silo0008.jpg). I also uploaded it a long time ago; I don't really remember much about what I uploaded it. I do know that I definitely didn't contact the developers about adding it to Wikipedia, and if I mistagged it, I apologize. If it needs to be changed to something else, go ahead. Perhaps I thought the "withpermission" tag meant that whoever screencapped it allowed it to be distributed? If I am in error, go ahead and change it to whatever it should be. ZenSaohu 21:25, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for cleaning up Wikipedia:Fair use review. What a miserable, thankless job. (Except for this message.) -- But| seriously| folks 21:37, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
Hi, Sorry I've been out of commission for the last week, I was away in France and the UK for almost a week. Just catching up on things. I'll be working on things tonight; I want to rearrange the pages and update them to make way for you.
I had a very interesting Wikimedia France meeting in Paris, and three things that may prove very useful:
I'll get in touch again later tonight. Once again, sorry for the absence. Walkerma 21:41, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
I can't see that the policy refers to location in the article in relation to "minimal" use. It is a good lead picture as being a strong modern image of a woman - most of the pictures, especially in the early part of the article, are "old master" works. Also the way you did it created white space in both the old and new locations. On the wider issue of the image, if you are concerned about it being used too many times, it might be better to upload other Kahlo images and use each once or twice in the various articles where a Kahlo image is to be expected. Johnbod 17:05, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
You agreed with the deletion of the modern proof of the incompleteness theorem. This is probably because you did not read it carefully. The proof is complete and correct. If you have any questions, I will be happy to answer them. Likebox 21:47, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
A computable function is the same as a computer program. Please do not make edits to important pages before discussing them. Likebox 21:55, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
If it's not too much of a bother could you email me a cc also? pierab@aol.com. Thanks, Bill. (I'm still bugged by this whole thing. Turing's original first circle-testing proof is so different from the Davis "halting problem" proof. It didn't "quine" its own operating system, it tested numbers one after another until it hit its own number (same thing). Because it had to create a diagonal number for every successfully "non-circular" number, it had to "execute" its own code, thus causing it to start over and thereby "circle" (contrary to premise ... Q.E.D.). I want to double-check and be sure that these guys aren't re-inventing the wheel. Bill Wvbailey 13:57, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
You commented on WP:AN last week concerning a proposed 0RR/1RR regime on the article Northern Cyprus, which is being disrupted by a SPA, User:3meandEr. I've posted a request for a block or community ban on this user at WP:AN/I#User:3meandEr and Northern Cyprus - your comments would be appreciated. -- ChrisO 11:21, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
I have registered de:User:CBM2. — Carl ( CBM · talk) 13:46, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
Hello CBM,
please send your real-name, your wikiname, your prefered login-name and the public part of your ssh-key to
. We plan to create your account soon then. --
DaB.
16:47, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
You claim that the CS definition of the problem is no good. It is referenced, it is accurate, and it is brief. It avoids the problem of defining the x,x business by quining, and it is not in any way original. I was hoping you could tell me what your complaints are. Likebox 19:50, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
BTW, the rewrite you gave is IMO not very satisfactory. It removed a complete proof and replaced with very vague language. Please discuss your changes. Likebox 20:05, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
(deindent) The fact that you have a PhD means that you think you know more. This is very annoying, because you clearly don't understand the computational proof yet. I can tell, because you keep editing it to be wrong or vague.
Actually, maybe you do understand it. I can't read your mind. Here's a test. Prove the following theorem: "There does not exist a computer program that can decide whether any other computer program runs in polynomial or exponential time on its input." You can't use Rice's theorem BTW.
The following text is copied from the talk page on GIT. It explains what I mean about Godel abandoning the recursion theory:
The following note in "Postscriptum", dated June 3, 1964, appears in Davis 1965:71-73. Here is where he utterly blows off recursion theory (Church 1936 and his own §9 General recursive functions) in favor of Turing 1936 and Post 1936:
A skeptic might think he was sick of mind, but he repeats his assertion in a differnt way to van Heijenoort two years later (after working for months with van H on a new and better translation of his 1931):
So yes, if you take the man at his word, he says the "proper" way to construct a formal system is with mechanical devices. Period. Bill Wvbailey 01:37, 15 October 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Likebox ( talk • contribs) 2007-11-06T00:40:26
Please reply to the message I left on my talk page. Thanks. :) -- Setanta 23:00, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
If you keep replacing a correct proof with a vague sketch, I will continue to war. I don't want to war, but your rewrites are not acceptable in any way, and the current text, due to me, is complete and correct.
I can't believe this. I gave Wikipedia the gift of a book proof of Godel's theorem, and instead of thank you, I get edit warring! Do you understand how galling that is? Please bring in some neutral parties. Likebox 06:35, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
I know it is discouraged, but I really believe that you are obfuscating clear and correct proofs for no reason. You have reverted the clear quine proof of halting to the slightly less clear f(i,i) proof three times, with no reason.
There is no reason not to have both proofs, as I had in my rewrite. I would prefer to come to an agreement too, but the two proofs are slightly different. They are only equivalent if you understand the fixed-point theorem, which is not a given for a reader of this page. I can't stomach the idea that the halting problem will only be proved for programs with an input. That's ridiculous! In this day and age. When the proof for a program with no input just requires a quine. Likebox 01:21, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
There is no style guideline, the project is basically a being driven by The Transhumanist. See a thread I've started at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Lists of basic topics#Overlap with portals and other concerns for a few of the concerns that have been raised. -- Quiddity 01:26, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for removing the image per editrequested request. On the same page you just removed an image, could you remove the image of Edward Brongersma aswell, per same rationale? (same licence, same issues). There has been no discussion to establish consensus over it, but the rationale and circumstance are identical. Martijn Hoekstra 16:38, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
I would prefer it if you would leave a comment on the talk page for a day or so; it's very painful to find out that something that seems uncontroversial actually is. — Carl ( CBM · talk) 16:40, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
Hi, I suppose I could have tried to "discuss" these changes with Sagbliss, but she's been banned from Wikipedia for harassment on talk pages and by e-mail and making legal threats. The article was protected to stop an edit war that she was at the heart of. To be honest, I don't really care that much to make further improvements to this article and was just following the guidelines set out by the edit protection banner. It's enough to leave it as it is at this point. 198.23.5.73 18:40, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
I'd be very happy to have an uninvolved person mediate this article, and I suspect many others would want the same. But nobody has yet created the Sandbox page you've suggested - do you know what you think should be in there? PR talk 15:04, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
Hi, could you possibly protect Margaret Sanger again? It's being vandalized by User 70.171.17.122. Thanks! MFNickster 19:25, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
I left another comment there about not disrupting the DRV. The reason I didn't archive the discussion myself is that some editors there are very firm about our social convention of not prematurely closing discussions. But the project as a whole is very professional and collegial, and I am confident they will refrain from any more "political" discussions. Mostly that was one disgruntled editor who has been advised not to continue by several people including me. I hope you will accept this as a compromise instead of continuing to archive the page, which will only lead to continued arguments from editors who feel discussions should be allowed to continue as long as they are not disruptive. — Carl ( CBM · talk) 16:16, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
Hi. I'm puzzled, and maybe you can correct my thinking: As a designer of a formal system, aren't I am free to define what is considered to be a "wff" (aka "proof" where the last "line of code" is the "theorem")? Given that, can't I specify that every wff contains one and only one HALT, this must occur at the end of the proof, and be the last line "executed". Now, I know that the "halting problem" is undecidable, so in general my wffs (aka proofs with last line HALT) are undecidable. Correct? (I used a similar device at Talk:Division by zero to demonstrate how the "proof" divide hangs up in an inescapable loop of infinitely repeated subtractions of divisor 0 from dividend 6, so it never reaches the HALT step or any other extension).
If this reasoning is correct, then trying to demonstrate "the undecidability of the consistency of a formal system" by use of the halting proof as a premise feels like begging the question. Plus the reasoning in above paragraph is so trivial, it must be flawed. What am I missing here? Thanks, Bill Wvbailey 17:43, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
I agree that Goedel's proof is better (more interesting, more convincing). Which is, I suppose, my point. I have a increasing concern that an attempt to assert the "Halting proof" as a premise, and then demonstrate "undecidability of consistency of a system" in a formal system that consists of an abstract machine, is so fraught with question-begging that such efforts should be discouraged. Plus it's a pedagogical cheat. The student doesn't learn anything. As you said: "Goedel's proof is hard." The student has to march through the details. I observed on Likebox's talk-page that CeilingCrash may be arriving at same kind of the trivial "proof" that I posted above. Bill Wvbailey 18:10, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
In the first paragraph you scored a direct hit on where I fouled up: the notion of a computation as, (as Gurevich stated the same notion in one of his papers, an evolution of), the "complete computational state". Yes, the computation-as-wff must include all the various "memory" (tape, registers, etc) involved in the computation. My original notion above was to just consider the "program" as the wff, not the "complete computational state" as the wff. Now I have to go away and think some more about proofs vs computations. What you wrote really helped. Thanks! Bill Wvbailey 22:53, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
Hi Carl - many thanks for posting my RfA at WT:WPM. I'm here on another mission however.
I believe it would be extremely useful to have a general purpose bot which keeps track of articles in a particular category. The types of category I have in mind are Wikipedia maintenance categories, rather than genuine article categories, but there may be some use for the latter. For maintenance, the key problem with categories is that they don't provide information about when an article was (most recently) added. Also, there are limitations on what one can do when listing the articles in a category.
So I would really like it if there were a bot for listing articles in categories with dates. A category could subscribe to this process much as talk pages subscribe to automatic archiving, by linking to a particular page or transcluding a particular template with a name like {{listify this}}. For each category X which links/transcludes to this, the bot would keep track of articles in the category on a regular basis (maybe once or twice a day), probably in a subpage of the form [[User:VeblenBot/Category/X]]. This subpage would contain a list of templates, one per article, of the form {{category X format|name = ArticleName|date = DateAdded}}, probably sorted by date.
This would be extremely useful, because the template {{category X format}} can be defined to format the information, and then the subpage [[User:VeblenBot/Category/X]] could be transcluded anywhere to provide a formatted list of articles in the category, together with the date when they were most recently added.
I am asking you, because it seems to me that this is the kind of activity that VeblenBot (i.e., your code) is good at. There is some extra programming required to keep track of the articles in the category and hence date them, and also I expect some care is needed to ensure the bot is not asked to listify really large categories. Would you be interested in developing something like this? Geometry guy 19:48, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
Hi Carl. The Template:Dominionism TfD, on which you commented, has been closed with no consensus (default to keep). Although the TfD debate touched on several issues regarding the form the infobox should now take, much seems unresolved. I invite you to participate in further discussion on this topic. Thank you. -- BlueMoonlet ( t/ c) 05:23, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
Hi, glad to see that the Toolserver account went through nicely. I'll be around this weekend, if you are starting tests with the new selection bot. I see that G-Guy has also been recruiting your help (above), and that's another worthy cause, so if you're being kept too busy I understand. Let me know what you'd like me to do to help. Thanks, Walkerma 06:18, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
I.M.H.O. this article is abysmal. Would you or someone you know be willing to look at it and render an opinion? On the talk page you will see where I typed in Richard's actual letter that appears in van Heijenoort. Tonight some poor soul tried to type in a "warning" (now reverted) that the article doesn't present the actual paradox (it's just a few words, but there may be copyright issues...), never mind they were absolutely correct -- the paradox is nowhere to be found. If necessary I'll locate the damn thing in the original and translate it myself so there isn't a copyright issue. The paradox deserves better than this article. Thanks, Bill Wvbailey 01:03, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
---
Is it just me, or is the Hilbert-style deduction system incomprehensible? I tagged it on the talk page. I came to the article with the honest intent of trying to figure out why a "computation" and a "proof" are different notions. The article did not help, to say the least. (I am not convinced they are different, at this point. There's also a confusion about "algebras" as symbol-manipulation schemes vs "evaluations of formulas" in computations). It's strange, but Suppes 1957 (Dover Introduction to Logic just sort of jumps into the notion of "proof" without a definition, as if it is just obvious. Tarski 1945, 1961 (Dover 1999) Introduction to Logic is doing much better, cf his chapter VI p. 117 "On the Deductive Method". It would seem that "proof" (at least this axiomatic type), is identical to a "deductive method".
I found something interesting about abstract computational machines: to cause the state transition, their "code" (TABLEs of instructions) use (the equivalent of) the "CASE operator" (connective) "IF (c=criterion) THEN step "b") AND IF NOT-(c=criterion) THEN step "a")". This is clearly deductive in nature. Ergo at least in this regard a "computation" (evolution of the state) is a deduction, and if "proof" = "deduction" then "computation" = "proof".
Thoughts? Thanks, Bill Wvbailey 16:51, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
I noticed you edited the Fellowship of Friends article in the past. There is an issue with Conflict of Interest (COI) at the moment and the article has been stubbed and protected and I thought that it would be nice if you could voice your opinion on the Talk page. If you are too busy, that's OK. Thank you in advance. Love-in-ark 00:12, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
There is a process for createing new policy. It is slow inefficent and the odds of anything passing it are effectively zilch. From my POV that means it works beautifully. Geni 22:34, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for taking care of most of the pages at User:ST47/OCT, including some of the more complex ones (e.g. hist-merging Category talk:Comic book characters created from television). Cheers, Black Falcon ( Talk) 22:52, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
Hi Carl, thanks for the updated references. I've started to feed the database. There are some 6.000 reference tags, I guess 5.000 of which are effectively different. So it will take a while to do this. I'll get back to the Wikiproject when this is done. Regards, Jakob.scholbach 16:53, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
The automation of peer review looks like it will work well: could you ask the lovely VeblenBot to update the /C/Requests for peer review subpage daily? Dr Kiernan has been fixing it in the meanwhile, but I have advised him that edits will be overwritten once the automation is active. Geometry guy 19:04, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Hello Carl, thanks for teaching me a few things about Wikipedia. I really appreciate it.
I know next to nothing about typed or higher-order logic, and so I am somewhat puzzled by the second sentence in structure (mathematical logic). I thought that the concept of a structure, being semantic, was always the same. But now your formulation makes me suspect that some people consider more general structures in which there might be, for example, a symbol for a subset of the powerset of the universe. Is this what you meant? Or should it be "but structures are also important for typed and higher-order languages"? -- Hans Adler 00:28, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
As you unprotected Nicolaus Copernicus [13], I expect you to watch that article, and take part in reverting vandalism, too. -- Matthead discuß! O 02:27, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
The question is one of form vs. substance. To use your example, in constructing free groups, we begin with the semigroup of forms and then mod out by an equivalence relation to obtain the substance -- a free group on n generators. If you view a polynomial as a form, then you are correct, but if we mod out by an equivalence relation, then my view is correct: (x squared plus 1) squared divided by (x squared plus one) IS in the ring of polynomials.
Rick Norwood 13:14, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
Dear CBM,
Thank You very much for Your attention to Hilbert-style deduction system. I have been long working on a complete rewrite. The main ideas I could collect till now are:
My work from a complete rewrite can be seen in a subpage User:Physis/Hilbert-style deduction system. It is still incomplete (in fact, I wanted to work on it one more week before mentioning it at all), but the main ideas are beginning already taking shape. I am not sure if people will like it, that's why I only wrote it on a subpage, so that it can be discussed separately from the existing article. I am interested in any opinions.
Best wishes,
Physis 16:00, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for letting me know. For the record, I disregarded the speedy tag placed by the IP and made my own judgment based on my knowledge of policy and the FUR discussion. I concur with RG2 that since this is not an iconic image, and it is possible to find free images of Obama, there is no fair use case. Additionally, the requirement for using a news agency photo under WP:NPC is that the image itself is the subject of critical commentary. In the case of Obama, the image is not discussed, only the event it depicts. There is a subtle but crucial difference. I maintain that the image should be deleted. I will not re-delete it, but I would appreciate your reconsidering your action. -- Spike Wilbury ♫ talk 22:33, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the input on that image - didn't think that the portion of the "arrow" would affect copyright issues (although it does make an ugly pic!) I've added fair use & took it out of review. Thanks! SkierRMH 01:49, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
Keep your comments on my talk page to the essential minimum. Likebox 01:51, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Dear Carl,
Thank You for Your reply, and Your work. I have now updated the image, replaced "axiom schemata" to "axiom schemes", as You suggested. I can send the native source of the image,so that You can easily update or develop any time.
Thank You also for Your explanation: what the motivation is for avoiding the style natural deduction follows. It is easier to prove metatheorems this way -- I have not thought of that yet. In fact, I am very inexperienced in mathematical logic (I work in functional programming, using Haskell), thank You for explaining motivations behind the styles, and also for rewriting the article.
I have learned three approaches to Hibert-style calculus. I have written them to the talk page of the article.
Best wishes
Physis 14:01, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
Hello Carl, no, I wasn't going to rename the article (yet), although it might make sense to rename it to structures (model theory), because that could be easier for universal algebra people to identify with. What happened was that I started a new version in my user space before reading somewhere that we are not supposed to do this. Now I know one reason why it's not a good idea: I copied the new text into the article, did some research because I wanted the page with my draft deleted, and — requested deletion of Structure (mathematical logic) instead of User:Hans_Adler/Model_theory_and_universal_algebra/Structure! Fortunately I realized immediately what I had done. Sorry, too many tabs open, and it was already past midnight... -- Hans Adler 00:59, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
Hi. I see you deleted this a few months ago as CSD criteria: "housekeeping". However, "housekeeping" is meant for uncontroversial cleanup like page moves, redirects, etc. This would mean that that the poem still exists, otherwise I don't see how it is housekeeping. Is the poem still existing somewhere, or has it been completely deleted? If it's the former, where is it? If it's the latter, why would it be housekeeping? I'll try to dig deeper using Special:Search, and perhaps come back here later. I haven't checked if there are discussions about this, so I'll go check. Thanks. ~ A H 1( T C U) 01:00, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
Can I direct your attention to WT:3RR? The exception for user space has in fact been in the three revert rule policy since 14 June 2005, and is not a new addition. Sam Blacketer ( talk) 22:13, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
Assuming a likely copyvio, you have today blanked the three Swedish iDAG newspaper articles from Talk:Alternative theories of the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103/Archive 2. These articles were written by Swedish journalist Jan-Olof Bengtsson who has given permission to former British diplomat Patrick Haseldine to use them in any way he chooses (see Patrick Haseldine#Incriminating South Africa):
I think you will agree that this is not therefore a copyvio. I should be grateful if you would reinsert the iDAG articles at /Archive 2, and undo your edit to the Alternative theories of the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 article. Thanks. Phase4 ( talk) 13:54, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
I noticed you posted a note to the talk page above and removed my last warning in the process. An accident? Just wondering; it looked like one. Tuvok T @ lk/ Improve me] 21:09, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
Hello Carl,
while removing obvious miscategorisations in the model theory category, I ran into this vanity page: consequence operator. If you have the time it would be great if you could have a look at the associated talk page and advise me how to proceed. Thanks, Hans Adler ( talk) 12:50, 23 November 2007 (UTC) (PS: I just got a little shock, because the rest of your talk page was archived away while I was writing this.)
I just became aware that it looks as if I was asking for immediate deleting. But for some reason I think that might not be the best solution. -- Hans Adler ( talk) 13:56, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
Hi CBM I wanted to let you know that Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/VeblenBot 5 has been approved. Please visit the above link for more information. Thanks! BAGBot ( talk) 23:07, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
I'm not going to do this myself. I'm not going to put the DYK template on my own talk page. Duncan Hunter's presidential campaign was featured on the main page as was Straw polls for the Republican nomination. This is the most ridiculous thing I have seen and if this censorship should be done then somebody should put back up the banner I had recently put up at the suggestions page.-- S TX 02:08, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
Please don't harrass me again. - BillCJ ( talk) 04:11, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
UNAUTHORIZED PHOTO - DO NOT USE PHOTO OF THE HOTEL DES ARTS NAMED "HOTEL.JPG" SINCE THE ARTICLE OF THE OWNER OF THIS PHOTO HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM WIKIPEDIA. THE OWNER WITHDRAW ALL HIS COLABORATION TO WIKIPEDIA AND SENT A COPYRIGHT VIOLATION TO ATTORNEY OFFICE. Greatartists210 ( talk) 15:51, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
Do you know whether it is possible to check externally, whether a WP article with a given title exists? Thanks, Jakob.scholbach 18:24, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
Someone pointed out to me, and I noticed it once myself, that VeblenBot occasionally blanks the list of articles in a category: an example is here. I think this is a fairly minor issue, as VeblenBot soon restores the data in the correct order: I would guess it is a server unavailability problem. However, it would be better if VeblenBot retained the previous data rather than blank the category.
This brings me on to a less minor request. It would be nice if the category listing was fairly robust to articles being removed from a category (e.g., by accident) and then re-added again shortly thereafter (e.g. within a day). I can appreciate that such robustness requires some programming work, as it involves keeping track of the category contents by date, and not relying entirely on the date information from the servers. Let me know if you have the time or the interest in developing something along these lines and I will elaborate if necessary. Geometry guy 00:07, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
Dear Carl, I've belatedly done as you've asked and set up a sandbox page for the proposed consensus edit at Battle of Jenin. The request for a protected is located here. The description of the edit and the supporting comments are at Talk:Battle of Jenin/Sandbox. I didn't seem feasible to ask everybody to approve the edit again, so I pasted in the approval statements now that the last one was received. Please let me know (at my Talk) if you have any questions about this request or are able to fulfill it. Thanks. HG | Talk 00:15, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
I'm thinking of mentioning this in the Gödel incompleteness theorems article, next to the bit about Chaitin:
C. Calude and H. Jürgensen, Is complexity a source of incompleteness?
but I wanted to get your opinion first. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.62.4.229 ( talk) 13:25, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
I knew I was at 3, so I was going to leave it alone. But thank you for the warning (it was appreciated), SirFozzie ( talk) 20:54, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
I agree completely with the removal of the phil tag from some of the logic topics. There is a lot more of that sort of thing out there. I am personally very reluctant to add maths ratings to articles because they have expressed a reluctance to tag everything. I thought element (mathematics) was particularly important to have included.
At some point I think I will make a list for proposed changes.
Be well, Pontiff Greg Bard ( talk) 05:49, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
"Claiming that my block is bad, or that I a member of some 'bad police', without contacting me, seems misguided." <-- Maybe we need a numerical scale. Is this how you would construct the measuring scale: blocking an editor as part of a gang effort to delete someone's question = +10 on the scale, helping Wikipedia; JWSchmidt discussing a bad block = -10, misguided? For me, the scale would be reversed. 'bad police' <-- I was discussing real world police, but the analogy to administrators is clear. Or rather, I thought it would be clear to Ian. -- JWSchmidt ( talk) 18:17, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
I haven't been keeping that close of an eye on the dispute since protecting the article, to be honest; if you think that suggestions can be implemented without dissolving into another edit war, you are more than welcome to unprotect the page. :) Glass Cobra 02:51, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
I generally don't put replies in two places but I wanted to inform you I made some additional comments regarding our previous discussion. Sorry to clutter your page. CelticGreen ( talk) 05:17, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
Just got the book an hour ago: sure wish I'd gotten it 2 yrs ago. But am confused, need help. Is Rogers using "convergent function" (p. xvi) in the sense of calculus, as in "an infinite sum that comes closer and closer to", or "in the limit"? How about "divergent"? In the engineering world this means the number (more likely: computational sequence) "explodes", i.e. goes to infinity, as opposed to e.g. converging toward but then oscillating around an integer value. E.g. a failed computation outputting: 12, 11, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 8, 6, 8, etc seems to have converged toward 7 but then gets stuck in a "loop" -- is that "divergent" computation? Kleene 1952 uses "convergence" in the calculus sense but doesn't use "divergence" at all. Yikes. Bill Wvbailey ( talk) 20:54, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
Hi there. I think your response here could have been a bit more helpful. The anon had to ask somebody for help in editing, since they couldn't without an account. Remember that we want to encourage new users and anonymous editors; I worry that your reply might possibly have been read as a brush off, even if you didn't mean it that way. You also might have looked at whether the page deserved to stay protected—it had been that way for over a month, for a reason that didn't make any sense to me, so I unprotected it. -- SCZenz ( talk) 20:55, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
Hi Carl: I've made the proposal at WT:PR#Automation of this page now. Thanks for all your support! Geometry guy 21:36, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
This was so far beyond inappropriate that I don't know where to begin. Cheers, Wily D 22:08, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
I'm confused about a comment you left on my user talk page. You said: Also, please fill in the class, field, and priority parameters when you place the template. There is no benefit to the template except to convey rating information, which is why it's called maths rating.
I thought that placing the template was the only way to include articles in WikiProject Mathematics, which does more than just rate articles. I sometimes left the parameters empty because I didn't know what to put. In such cases I thought it was better to place the template anyway just to include the article in the project. That way others in the math community would have a better chance of seeing it and potentially add the missing information. Timhoooey ( talk) 22:50, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
All right, thanks for telling me. Every time one creates a new article, does someone have to manually add it to the list? Temperal talk and matrix? 23:49, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
Multi-front discussions are counter-productive. Do you want to take this back to the RFC? -- TheOther Bob 20:04, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
Hello, CBM! I responded to your post on my talk page. Regards.-- 12 Noon 20:45, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
Because of your participation in discussions relating to the "PSTS" model in the No original research article, I am notifying you that a request for arbitration has been opened here. I invite you to provide a statement encouraging the Arbcom to review this matter, so that we can settle it once and for all. COGDEN 23:50, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
Hi, you wrote in Absoluteness (mathematical logic) that Shoenfield's absolutness theorem is about Sigma-2 formulas. I think this is not correct -- for example, the continuum hypothesis is Sigma-2 (unless I miscounted quantifiers).
I think we should say that Shoenfield really talks about formulas in descriptive set set theory; using countable well-founded models this can be translated to formulas of set theory.
Aleph4 ( talk) 11:37, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
I don't know if you're watching it or just checking from the edit protected category but I answered here. It was all set yesterday, sorry for the extra edit request. Lawrence Cohen 23:06, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
Hmmm, not sure why you left it on my page, but Im not Jeeny. But it appears that she's retired anyhow. - Rjd0060 ( talk) 06:13, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
Hi! Seems like you removed the protection template from Canada and wrote on the talk page that you removed the protection, but forgot to actually do it. Or is there another reason that the page remains fully protected? Cheers! JdeJ ( talk) 13:49, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
Template:Current fiction has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. The log page is here. -- Pixelface ( talk) 04:53, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
I gave VeblenBot a test by readding a peer review request that was archived more than 48 hours ago. It tripped up by setting the date to the beginning of time. I also tested removing a current request from the category. I've now put it back, so we'll see what happens on the next update. Geometry guy 19:19, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
if ( $diff <= $Cutoffs{$cat} )
will be successful, because $diff
will be 0. But for articles that have never been seen before, all we can do is use the timestamp that the database currently reports, and this will happen, because higher up the line $Added{$key} = $Timestamps{$key};
will execute. This assumes that LastSeen
and Added
are either both defined or both undefined for a particular key, but I believe this is correct, because the first time an article is seen in the category both will be filled in, and after that they will both always be defined. — Carl (
CBM ·
talk)
21:15, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
Something interesting here. I bought into the "Give One, Get One" program for the "One Laptop per Child" and got one of the first laptops hot off the press. The programmers have equipped the machine with a "Calculate" function that includes a little "Boolean" evaluator. When I played with it I ran into some strange stuff. So I wrote:
Boolean operations: request NOT:
(3) I have some suggestions for the activity's functionality, but am not sure they should be here. I will enter them here anyway. The philosophy behind this is to provide the kids with the same symbolism and functionality that they will find on wikipedia.
(3a) The symbol | (stroke): Why use the "Sheffer stroke" for OR? this symbol was classically used for NAND (NOT AND). Why not use V for "von", the more classical symbol? I've never seen | used for OR.
(3b) Logical NOT: I was rather ... stunned shall we say ... to see XOR rather than NOT (i.e. ~ or "bent bar" 2-shift-alt, or whatever). XOR would be an okay addition but not without NOT; NOT is virtually mandatory. I am quite aware that the three functions chosen (AND, OR, XOR) are sufficient, but hey, so is NAND (stroke) by itself or NOR by itself or implication by itself -- and using them by themselves is ugly.
(3c) What happens when we plug in numbers not { 0, 1 }? The numerical results such as 3&4 => 4, and 3|4 => 3 are rather peculiar; they seem reversed (from a Venn-diagram point-of-view). For example, as "4" contains "3" we would expect that 3|4 might be "4". I will pursue this with my wikipedia cohorts to get their opinions. Usually Boolean functions have to do with predicates in particular "equality" that evaluate to { TRUE, FALSE } or values { 1, 0 }, e.g. =AND(3,4) yields TRUE in Excel.
Carl, do you have any opinions about what I wrote above? Lemme know, thanks. Bill Wvbailey ( talk) 19:39, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
A correspondent at the OLPC wiki agrees with you, i.e. "C/C++, java, and Python" all use the | for "OR", apparently. He agrees with us about the strange output with non- { 1, 0 } values (also apparently {TRUE, FALSE} end up as variable names rather than as "values"). The corresponent describes the simple algorithm that "Python" uses to evaluate non-1, 0 numeric functions, etc. If you're curious, see more at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Talk:Calculate. I'll post your response there. Thanks, Bill —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wvbailey ( talk • contribs) 15:10, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
I've now implemented the peer review automation, so there will surely be teething problems. First one: the date of the latest two entries is in the future! Let me know if you need further details. Geometry guy 22:15, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
I went through the list again, and there are alas still four more to fix (two cases of vandalism, one page move, and one of your tests)! They are
The two cases of vandalism would have been fixed by the caching, which is good news for the future. Geometry guy 11:57, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
Someone, perhaps you, recently created an account at the WikBack. If the account was created by an imposter, please let me know as soon as possible so that it can be disabled. Otherwise, welcome! The Uninvited Co., Inc. 19:52, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
There's actually been a lot of discussion on the talk page. Dreadstar † 04:20, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
I am sorry, but if you heard some of the nasty comments he made towards me, you would be shocked. Sacharin ( talk) 21:05, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
Hi,
That discussion is exactly what is ongoing at WP:BN. For Wikipedians who've been around a long time, a few reversions (always under the limit of 3RR) are often a part of these "negotiations". In the old days, WP:BOLD was much more often used to justify the approach of "discuss as you change". 3RR is the absolute universal cap on this, of course; but, under that limit, reversions are quite natural... especially for non-mainspace pages, where no real encyclopedic content is at stake. In any case, this underlying issue will be resolved shortly by the b'crats. Thanks for your input. Best wishes, Xoloz ( talk) 21:14, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
Hey there! I noticed VeblenBot creates a nice summary page of the peer reviews at User:VeblenBot/C/Requests for peer review. Do you think the same can be done for WP:FAC and WP:FAR? A similar format would be fine ([[Date (which links to FAC/FAR subpage)]] : [[Article]] ) Cheers, (and thanks in advance if this is doable) Budding Journalist 23:12, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
User:Spacefarer is hacking/vandalising the page to bits with no use of the discussion page. Suggesting revert to page before his chooping occurred and freezing it. Apparently there is an LE convention (Global Transformation 2020) very soon, hence the rapid edits. -- Pax Arcane 16:50, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
I think removing the image from the article on Godel's Incompleteness Theorem is -- well, forgive me -- silly. It's a Wikipedia article, not a formal mathematics paper. -- KSnortum ( talk) 22:15, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
A contributor has suggested that User:VeblenBot update User:VeblenBot/PERtable only when the contents of the table need to change, to avoid making unnecessary edits. The discussion may be found at Wikipedia talk:Bot policy#Frivolous bot edits – Gurch 13:13, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
VeblenBot hasn't updated WP:PERTABLE for almost a week. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 11:31, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
Are you actually tagging pages this fast? I mean if so, great, but something seems wrong; youve tagged thousands of pages today and made like 20 edits. -- CastAStone //₵₳$↑₳ ₴₮ʘ№€ 03:41, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi, I am an admin on it:wiki. I received a message from User:Sandrobt, who was blocked for one day: despite its name (!) he is not a bot, he is a user of it:wiki interested in algebra and he was putting some italian interwikis here. :-P Cheers, Ylebru ( talk) 12:11, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
Thanks!-- Sandrobt ( talk) 00:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
I was pleased to see VeblenBot making inroads into FA and hope this idea will be more widely used.
Several further applications suggest themselves.
My current thoughts are to pursue 2, then apply this experience to 1, while (all the time) making the case for (and developing) 3. However, I need to know your view on these applications (whether you are happy with handling growing numbers of archive categories, and potentially large numbers of GAN/GA categories) and also if you have any further ideas. Geometry guy 00:47, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
I agree with the philosophy, although this is all volunteer work, and getting the software designed is not always straightforward! In the GAR case, the current system just makes too much work for editors: I hate archiving GARs, because it involves cutting and pasting and making loads of edits, and I am not alone! So could you ask VeblenBot to listify Category:GAR (newest item first as usual) and Category:GAR/34 (oldest item first per archiving conventions)? They are empty at the moment, but I will fill them, and implement a much easier GAR process over the weekend. Geometry guy 19:08, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
PS. Thanks for the wikilinking tip, which caused me problems in my early days here, but in this case I didn't use it because the categories didn't exist, and I hadn't decided on the names.
I've set up the subpages and the new system at GAR, so the listing of Category:GAR would now be very welcome. Geometry guy 19:24, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
If you get a chance sometime, I wonder if you could look at the end of the section about the axiom of choice, particularly the bit I added about BT following from ZF plus the Hahn-Banach theorem. Trovatore makes a good point on the talk page that the exposition there is possibly misleading, but it looks like neither one of us figured out the right way to rephrase it. I also wonder whether the statement of the set theory needed for the Hahn-Banach theorem could be made a little sharper. Does the Brown-Simpson result about WKL0 and Hahn-Banach have any applicability, given that ZF is already involved? Thanks. 75.62.4.229 ( talk) 11:12, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
Thank you! But named references don't help because I can't change page numbers to correspond with the text in different places. See references 8a and 8b in George Bernard Shaw. 8b should mention only page 515. The same volume has other citations I should use that are on other pages. Wugo ( talk) 03:44, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
Agreed, page numbers are important. I may have solved the problem by associating different topics with their appropriate page numbers within the body of the reference. Please look at reference 8 in George Bernard Shaw and tell me what you think. If this trick is acceptable I plan to add several other topics with their pages to the existing pair. Wugo ( talk) 17:43, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for your note. Ironically, I more often get criticism for declining deletions; it is pretty thankless work. So, I appreciated your follow-up comment.-- Kubigula ( talk) 15:33, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
No hard feelings - you are a gentleman :).-- Kubigula ( talk) 03:10, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
I noticed the bot hasn't been working in the last day. Should we begin adding the peer review manually, or just wait until the bot is up again? Cheers! -- ReyBrujo ( talk) 00:25, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
Hello CBM. I saw your note over at WT:WPM that you are among the administrators who will consider granting rollback permission. I'm interested in trying this out, though I don't like to make changes with no edit summary, so I hope there is still a way to leave one. EdJohnston ( talk) 22:14, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi there. In case you didn't know, when you add content to
talk pages and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should
sign your posts by typing four
tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. On many keyboards, the tilde is entered by holding the
Shift key, and pressing the key with the tilde pictured. You may also click on the signature button
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SineBot (
talk)
02:42, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
I moved our discussion to WT:1.0/I, as I think more people would be interested in commenting. Oleg Alexandrov ( talk) 06:14, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi, if you want a bigger, representative smorgasbord of projects to work from, take a look at User:Walkerma/Sandbox2. This will total about 100k articles total; if you want to keep the numbers down, miss off the biographical ones in the last section. Thanks! Walkerma ( talk) 08:31, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
Carl, I agree with your assessment of my position. I do object to arbitrary and unnecessary changes to the policy pages at WP. While the strength of WP is the dynamic aspects of the articles, constant tinkering with the policies is counterproductive to the “freedom” of the project. We need a simple but stable rule set which is easy for our writer contributors to follow. We seem to have evolved a wiki-bureaucrat-class which contributes little to the content of the project, but lives and thrives for incessant debating of policy nuances. There are two three things which I seek: (1) fewer rules, (2) clearer rules, and (3) stable rules. I’d be really interested in seeing why our perceptions might differ on this topic. Cheers! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kevin Murray ( talk • contribs) 15:47, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Carl, I think we have a lot of concerns and perceptions in common. I do realize that absolute stability is neither possible not desirable. To be dynamic, the rule sets need to be dynamic to a limited extent. If there is no stability then there is anarchy, which is more desirable in an emerging project, but less desirable as we mature.
I most certainly agree that the ways that policies and guidelines emerge needs fine-tuning. My interest is not in the administration of WP, but I became involved where poor rules and poor or biased assessments of rules were causing poor choices at AfD. Originally, I became involved because "I don’t like it" AfD's were decimating many new entries in the subject of sailing; so I became involved in AfD, and then trying to simplify the notability rules so that they were understandable and consistent (with some success).
Getting involved in notability lead to trying to stabilize the guidance around the introduction of proposals, since there is a constant pressure to expand the permutations of notability to the point of confusion and contradiction. With the best of intentions people are throwing band aids at problems, but adding to morass, without considering deeper consequences. I frequently use the analogy of the tragedy of the commons, where the sum of many “best solutions” on a micro perspective can collectively cause more harm than good. Enough of my rambling. -- Kevin Murray ( talk) 17:18, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Carl, I realize that we don't agree on how the editing of policy pages should be handled, but I do very much appreciate your very fair and well thought out comments today. Talk to you soon. -- Kevin Murray ( talk) 05:45, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi, I was wondering if you would be available some time over the weekend to chat on IRC about the testing of the selection bot. Was my list helpful? Cheers, Walkerma ( talk) 22:40, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Avoid instruction creep ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs) has recently been marked as a guideline. This is an automated notice of the change. -- VeblenBot ( talk) 17:44, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
Hello CBM. Thanks for your efforts in getting the LO awards section of the actor infoboxes to work. Unfortunately they aren't quite fixed yet. Please take a look at this page [17] and you will see what I am talking about when I made this post here [18]. Anything that you can do to get these fixed will be appreciated and thanks for your time. MarnetteD | Talk 22:52, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
I am very grateful for you right now. I was just referring to substitution instance in a discussion with Arthur at Talk:Formal system, when I noticed your changes. You have expanded the article without destroying anything. I have no argument for anything you have done at all. You added information, and I learned something new about the concept as a result. That's what I want out of wp. Pontiff Greg Bard ( talk) 00:30, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
It's been a couple days, but you haven't responded to my last post over there, so I thought I would come see if you had a chance to think about it. I see your point that it might be possible to extend the PROD system. My concerns is that nobody is actually spearheading a campaign to do that, and it isn't clear that it would get consensus in the end (there are comments on WT:PROD against extending prod to templates). Implementing T3, even temporarily until PROD is changed, would help free up some resources from TfD and is unlikely to cause bad deletions. Do you have objections to T3 apart from wishing to extend PROD to cover it? — Carl ( CBM · talk) 13:15, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi Carl - as you probably saw, the peer review page broke again today for being too large. I've replaced transclusion by listing for now. You suggested only doing this for articles where the peer review was long. Now, I wonder, can this be automated? For example, can VeblenBot use the toolserver to obtain lengths of articles? If so, then it could get the length of each article in a category and add it to the template as an extra parameter. At the moment this would do the job nicely for Category:GAR, where the articles are actually the reviews, but I'm planning to make the same change at WP:PR anyway, to make archiving easier. What do you think? Geometry guy 19:48, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Assessment ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs) has recently been marked as a policy. This is an automated notice of the change. -- VeblenBot ( talk) 18:47, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia:User page ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs) is no longer marked as a guideline. It was previously marked as a guideline. This is an automated notice of the change. -- VeblenBot ( talk) 18:47, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi Carl, can you, please, semiprotect Geometry again? A quick look at edit history shows that pretty much all edits past January 1 were either vandalism or reverts. Thanks, Arcfrk ( talk) 22:44, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
I saw that you moved the peer review to the archive because of its length, but it is not truly archived because it is still active and the current page still exists. I'm not ready to archive it fully yet, but when I am, how will I go about doing that? The archive has already been created, so I cannot move the page as the directions say, can I? What would you suggest? María ( habla con migo) 15:41, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
I liked your rephrase of WP:LEAD. Geometry guy 18:35, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia:User page ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs) has recently been marked as a guideline. This is an automated notice of the change. -- VeblenBot ( talk) 18:50, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
A couple of suggestions (just passing by):
If these two suggestions are combined, it would probably not be necessary to keep a cache of changes reported by the bot, nor would it be necessary to vary the bot output depending on the situation. Geometry guy 20:08, 21 January 2008 (UTC) PS. Please feel free to cross-post to the bot request page if this suggestion is helpful.
![]() |
The Half Barnstar | |
I wanted to present "The Right Half of the Half Barnstar" to say many thanks for working with Jeanenawhitney to fix the actor infobox anomoly that I discovered. You both put in time and effort to fix a small problem that may not have affected many pages, thus, I doubly appreciate your efforts. MarnetteD | Talk 22:50, 21 January 2008 (UTC) |
You are, of course, correct. To the best of my knowledge, we haven't executed that right to purge since 2002. There has since been a tacit promise not to do so without good reason and a fair amount of notice. But if the developers needed to purge the deleted history to keep the project up and running, they would absolutely do so.
Until they do so, though, the point that deleting a page doesn't affect the costs to the project remains. Deleting a page doesn't free up any server space or "clean up" anything. I'm really trying to teach people that there are many good reasons to delete a page but "cleaning up the database" is not one of them. Thanks for your comment. Rossami (talk) 15:59, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Hey Carl. I've replied on my talk page. Neıl ☎ 17:55, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi Carl,
an anon has added to computable function the claim that the collection of all computable functions is denoted by "C". I've never heard of this, have you? -- Trovatore ( talk) 21:25, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
After a recent edit of yours, the article currently says that any boolean algebra is isomorphic to the powerset algebra of the set of ultrafilters. Unless I'm thoroughly confused about something (and it's always a possibility that I'm wrong, confused or completely insane) shouldn't it say that X isomorphic to the algebra of clopen subsets of the space of ultrafilters, where the space of ultrafilters are equipped with the hull-kernel topology?-- CSTAR ( talk) 03:21, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
Please could I draw your attention to the unblock request here. Chelsea Tory ( talk) 16:39, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for fixing this. I should have thought of the autoblock but stupidly didn't. SlimVirgin (talk) (contribs) 21:37, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Requests for checkusership ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs) has recently been edited to mark it as a policy. This is an automated notice of the change. -- VeblenBot ( talk) 18:50, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia:WikiProject Universities/Article guidelines ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs) has recently been edited to mark it as a guideline. This is an automated notice of the change. -- VeblenBot ( talk) 18:50, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi Carl, could you also add Category:GAR/35 to the listing list. Geometry guy 21:03, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for the question. I appreciate your comments on my talk page. I also feel that I've improved the encyclopedia in some way, but others are welcome to disagree. That is a good quality of Wikipedia. Again, thank you. - Rjd0060 ( talk) 02:45, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi Carl - I've set a couple of plans in motion to improve the PR page further:
The first of these involves assigning a WP1.0 topic (there are 10 of them) to each peer review to make it easier for reviewers to find articles. The second involves placing an article's peer review on an archive page from the very beginning so that the page never needs to be moved: I did this with GAR, and it is much easier to use than the PR system.
The first plan only requires VeblenBot to list 10 more categories, one for each topic.
In principle, the second plan requires no change to VeblenBot. However, in practice there are transitional issues, because in the new system, the Wikipedia/Peer review/ARTICLE NAME/archiveN pages will be in the category, and the current talk pages would be taken out of the category. This can of course be done preserving chronological order, but not preserving dates. I'm thinking about several different ways that this could be done, and wondering which would be the most smooth. Do you have any suggestions? Geometry guy 20:37, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Actually, I don't think I will depopulate the category: instead I will put the peer review subpages in a new category called Category:General peer reviews. If VeblenBot doesn't mind watching empty cats for a short while, could you add this to the list (namespace 4), and also
These are the GA/WP1.0 topics, except that I've folded maths in with sciences, because math peer reviews almost never happen. Finally, I'm going to need Category:February 2008 peer reviews soon, so could you add that one too? Thanks, Geometry guy 19:31, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
PS. I used {{ GA/Topic}} to generate the correct names. Geometry guy 19:36, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
I followed up to your response on Template talk:NavigationBox athletic conference. Take a look see if that makes more sense. Thanks. - Gwguffey ( talk) 20:31, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
There is a new suggestion at MediaWiki talk:Newarticletext. If this is acceptable I have the full message text ready to provide for installation. Sbowers3 ( talk) 23:11, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
Zeroth_order_logic seems to be a typical Jon Awbrey article. Apart from the usual edit wars nobody else seems to have edited there. I would expect that the word is notable enough to mention it in propositional logic, but probably not enough so to replace this article by a real one. Would it be a good idea to prod it? -- Hans Adler ( talk) 00:27, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
VeblenBot appears to have fallen behind on the PR cat, which is quite close to the template limit now, so I have archived a lot this evening. Incidentally, I don't think being 20K within the limit is enough warning: after the current archiving effort settles, could you up it to say 1-200K? Geometry guy 23:01, 28 January 2008 (UTC) PS. Now that the new preprocessor is in place, can you estimate the timescale on the new parser function? This would help a lot at PR. Geometry guy 23:03, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
I've reinstated the editprotected tag on Infobox Officeholder as only one person on the page objected, and that was only because they incorrectly thought it removed the Successor field from all current officeholders. Had they read the details of the edit they would have seen it doesn't. I don't know why you didn't spot this; if you have an objection to the edit you should just state it. -- Hera1187 ( talk) 07:00, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
If there's a reliable source to be found, that sounds fine. -- Bellwether B C 04:29, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
You wrote, "If you read the archives, you'll find that I've actually supported (and even argued in favor of) edits to the policy that defied my personal preferences, purely for the sake of compromise and consensus-building. For this reason, some of my reversions were actually from my preferred version, not to it."
If these reversions are towards a version that you think more likely to find agreement among everyone, that they are certainly valid. If, however, you are reverting solely for the sake of stability, I'd like to convince you to work towards a compromise version instead. There's no rush in getting the wording correct, and if the page is less than optimal for a few hours we would never allow someone to use that to wikilawyer an excuse for bad behavior. — Carl ( CBM · talk) 17:53, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Be nice ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs) has recently been edited to mark it as a guideline. This is an automated notice of the change. -- VeblenBot ( talk) 18:52, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
No edit bickering, just aiming for the compromise. Only one problem, the template that was being searched was cleanup-rewrite.
... there should be an easy-to-find guide for these. As an administrator, btw, could you redirect the currently empty Template:Crap to cleanup-rewrite?
Signing sure is annoying. 85.156.93.198 ( talk) 00:22, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
I've been tracking the old peer review category at the new Category:General peer reviews, and am almost ready to make the switchover, but there appears to be a small glitch, as you can see from the last two or three diffs: VeblenBot keeps updating the timestamp for Allegations of state terrorism committed by the United States and A Magical Christmas of Magic with Harry and the Potters and Wizardly Friends and Magical Singing Creatures.
The fact that both of these articles have uncommonly long titles may suggest what is going wrong (with the /archive1, the shorter of these is 82 characters - does Perl use 80 character lines for something?). Geometry guy 19:58, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi again - VeblenBot doesn't seem to be listing Category:Natural sciences and mathematics peer reviews. (Note that I combined these two topics in one category.) Geometry guy 21:58, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
I just wanted to say thanks for your support for my RfA, which closed (74/2/0) this morning. Your comment and support was very much appreciated. I'm sure we'll bump into each other again at WP:CSD or elsewhere. Happy‑ melon 15:37, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
It needs a lot more referencing than it currently does. Judgesurreal777 ( talk) 22:41, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
You're right about the thing with Guliani. But I heard that he was going to endorse McCain from one of his campaign staffers on Fox.
Thanks. Now I see the advantages of Harvard citations. The main drawback, as the template is currently implementated, is that it is not immediate to go back from the reference list to the point or points where that particular book or paper is mentioned. I know, it is a minor snag, but I like it when in a book each reference lists the places where it is mentioned in the text. I have mentioned this in Template talk:Harvard citation#From_the_reference_to_the_text.3F. Happy editing, Goochelaar ( talk) 11:34, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
Carl - If you remember, you weighed in on the use of user pages to draft a future RFC, and whether such use might count as an attack page if not promptly converted from a personal on-wiki collection of evidence about a person into an actual RFC or ArbCom case. The above is an ongoing discussion of one such user page; part of the question is what counts as a "reasonable" period of time to bring the RFC or delete the draft. (Opinions differ from "a few days" to "several months.") The discussion seems to be floundering a bit on what this policy means, so, if you're interested, I thought you might have input to add. (If not, sorry to bug you.) Thanks. -- TheOther Bob 15:27, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
Hello Carl, I have finally finished cleaning the consequence operator article. There are still three directs left that I don't know what to do with:
I think they are all idiosyncratic Herrmann terminology, but that doesn't seem to qualify them for speedy deletion. Any immediate advice? (If it means any work, don't worry. I can just put them to Redirects for discussion and see what happens.) -- Hans Adler ( talk) 19:04, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
What would you think of the following? (last sentence added)
Perhaps some other wording would serve the same end.-- Strider12 ( talk) 21:56, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
This doesn't seem right. Gimmetrow 22:30, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for answering my questions, but if import is disabled, what good does him having it do? Earth bending master 00:39, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
I just wanted to say a quick thankyou for fixing the mess I inadvertantly left in {{
db-t3}}
and {{
old template}}
last night when I was dragged away by RL. I will make a response to the comments MZMcBride has raised on his talk page, but your fix was both clever and uncontroversial, and very much appreciated.
Happy‑
melon
12:02, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
I disagree with your assessment about not using inline citations for articles on mathematics. When I see things that do not use inline citations, I will mark them as such. I would like to know that this information comes from a book and that it isn't just someone's home grown lecture notes.
Please do not check on every edit that I have made from this IP address. I find your actions deeply disturbing. 155.198.204.98 ( talk) 17:43, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
Hi Carl, can you look at the new Maths tables I posted at the SelectionBot talk page? We have two variants of the Log formula now. Tito's "tweak" looks to be the best yet, IMHO, but I'd like your opinion if possible. Thanks, Walkerma ( talk) 20:52, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
Hello Carl, can you have a look at this new article and its creator? He re-reverted me while I was writing a justification for my reverts on the article's talk page. I must go offline now for at least an hour and feel a message on their talk page is necessary, but I don't have the concentration now to write a message that doesn't WP:BITE. Will be back later. -- Hans Adler ( talk) 18:08, 7 February 2008 (UTC) PS: Of course, you can also just leave it as it is and I will deal with this later… I know you have enough to do even without me drawing you into such things. -- Hans Adler ( talk) 18:10, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
08-Feb-2008: Hello, User:Wikid77 here. I got your message, and will begin to answer, but I have to admit I've forgotten details about the page-buffer limit (19,000 WP edits have clouded my memory). I'm sure the page-buffer size is over 1 MB. I think it is the same or related to the template-expansion limit, and also seems purposely limited to reduce malicious server attacks attempted by pages stuffed with huge templates. The page-buffer limit counts the contents of "<noinclude>" sections (probably to prevent flooding with 100KB noincludes in repeated templates). However, the "<noinclude>" sections are not expanded for the embedded templates. I continually hit the page-buffer limit when doing an "impossible" task: I wrote " Template:Location_map_many_polarx" to place latitude/longitude markers on polar or conic projection maps, by performing hideous nested calculations to skew latitude and longitude with the conic mathematical transforms, 5 times per template (using tedious quadratic and linear interpolation). This is how Wikipedians can mark maps in polar areas, such as across Canada, Template:Location_map_CanadaTerrain. It actually works, which is why I used it enough to hit the buffer limit. I'll try to remember/find the actual page-size limit from "way back" in November 2007, and reply later. I'm sure you understand wiki-amnesia. - Wikid77 ( talk) 10:35, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
You deleted ALL the images on the club penguin article! That was RUDE!
Please see Wikipedia_talk:Avoid_self-references#Category_descriptions. -- User:Docu
Carl, Thanks for your message about the "Books" image. I've changed the licence to "no rights reserved".
Hi, wvbailey here. Are you familiar at all with Finsler's Formal proofs and undecidability (1926)? This appears in van Heinjenoort on p. 438ff. According to Dawson (Godel's biographer) Finsler tried to claim priority over Godel 1930-1931 and Godel countered that "it contain[s] obvious nonsense" (Dawson p. 89); Dawson says that Godel admitted to not being aware of Finsler's paper.
But van Heijenoort, in his commentary, is far less critical than Godel. van H. does seem to agree that Finsler "presents an example of a proposition that, although false, is formally undecidable" (p.438). [A question then: Is this the first "valid" Entscheidungsproblem proof?] He says that both Finsler and Godel, in the same way, "skirt the Richard paradox without falling into it", and van H. explains how this happens. What I like about Finsler's demonstration is its very simplicity (uses binary, creates a Cantor diagonal that is "1111...." ad infinitum, etc etc). van H does goes on to say that Finsler more-or-less missed Godel's point about strict use of formal systems. My question is: others who have read this proof and commented on it, what do they think? Have you ever encountered anything about Finsler or his proof? Finsler doesn't even have a bio in wikipedia. Thanks wvbailey Wvbailey 18:07, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
I typed it in myself but I think I found the equation somewhere else...
Either way, to recreate it (with the calculator in 3D mode) set:
...and let it graph. Cool stuff... Nrbelex ( talk) 00:53, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
I'm happy to license it under whichever gives it the most freedom to be used while within the limits of the law regarding screen shots. If possible I'd also like to maintain the caption, though this isn't essential. Nrbelex ( talk) —The preceding signed but undated comment was added at 00:58, August 20, 2007 (UTC).
I undid your removal of the Kean Logo which you think is a non free image.
Please check your facts before doing things like this.
Thank you.
-- akc9000 ( talk • contribs • count) 17:04, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
Hi CBM--thanks for contributing to the American Regions Mathematics League page. I noticed you recently took down the logo. I believe the logo is covered by Fair Use and, while it is true that one may not recognize the logo without already knowing it, I believe an encyclopedia must also cover relevant bits of exposition that is new to the reader, and I feel the logo fits right into this category. I would love to hear your comments. :) mitcho/芳貴 12:59, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
Hello, this is a message from
an automated bot. A tag has been placed on
Club Penguin Locations, by another Wikipedia user, requesting that it be
speedily deleted from Wikipedia. The tag claims that it should be speedily deleted because
Club Penguin Locations was previously deleted as a result of an
articles for deletion (or another
XfD)
To contest the tagging and request that administrators wait before possibly deleting
Club Penguin Locations, please affix the template {{hangon}} to the page, and put a note on its talk page. If the article has already been deleted, see the advice and instructions at
WP:WMD. Feel free to contact the
bot operator if you have any questions about this or any problems with this bot, bearing in mind that this bot is only informing you of the nomination for speedy deletion; it does not perform any nominations or deletions itself.
CSDWarnBot
23:45, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
Hi Carl,
please run your script to pull out the following information of all WP Math articles: - the templates {{citation}}, {{cite book/journal}} (I hope I don't forget an important citation template) including the leading and finishing {{, }} - along with every occurrence of such a template in some article, the categories the article page is contained in
You don't have to somehow squeeze the category information into the template, I'll think about that later myself. You can email me the results. Thanks very much. Jakob.scholbach 05:58, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
The spoiler tag was for Takezo Kensei's ability. I was just looking for who was going to be in it this season (actors and actresses), not spoiler plot info like he's immortal. -- Nealparr ( talk to me) 14:32, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
Can you please do me a favour? I'd like you, who is an admin, to edit that page, by adding a sentence saying that if the person who wish to register found that the desired name is already been registered, he/she/it may go to
Wikipedia:Changing username/Usurpations to request for using that username, if that username has no log at all (Except user creation log). I make this request because once I've changed my name from Edmundkh, then re-register with that name. Now I'm regret for doing that, so I'd like to help the person who wish to register with that name.
Thanks for helping! --
Edmund the King of the Woods!
03:26, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
If someone else wants to take that name, and you give permission, the usurpation will be automatically granted. Ordinarily, usurpation is reserved for established users, so users just getting a new account can't use usurpation. So I don't think it would be appropriate to put a note about usurpation on that page when new users can't take use it. — Carl ( CBM · talk) 03:29, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
Hi, you have removed Image:Gravitation.png from the Kepler-Poinsot polyhedron article a couple of times, and I have restored it. Before this gets to be a habit, could you check out the Fair Use explanation on the image page, so we can agree on the way to go? Cheers, -- Steelpillow 21:01, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
thanks for your message. not sure exactly how to proceed. i'd asked someone in rochester to take that picture specifically for the article and allow me to upload it. he did and i did. i thought i'd tagged it properly - that permission had been granted by the photographer to post the photo. what else do i need to do, or which tag should i use instead to clarify the matter? J. Van Meter 14:09, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
WarthogDemon has smiled at you! Smiles promote
WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Happy editing!
Smile at others by adding {{
subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.
- WarthogDemon 23:59, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
I'm going to have to search through my email archives to see if I still have this; this preceded the use of OTRS to archive these things. However, we can only use these images by claiming fair use in any case; the Denver Public Library was willing to grant specific permission but not blanket free licensing. I simply noted the permission to ensure people realised that there were no legal complications possible here. Matthew Brown (Morven) ( T: C) 21:07, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
Please see the talk page of the uploader and read the image description page before you put silly tags on images. It clearly says the copyright holder themself uploaded the image. The user's identity is confirmed by OTRS on their talk page. - Nard 13:46, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
I see no evidence of "denseness". Perhaps you could rephrase in a more civil fashion, Nard? KillerChihuahua ?!? 14:06, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
User:CBM/verifypermission has been marked for deletion. Please see the discussion at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:CBM/verifypermission. - Nard 13:56, 25 August 2007 (UTC)
Hi, Carl! This is Angel David. I meant that you must put the template: {{ edit protected}} in <nowiki></nowiki> form. The template was made so it could be put to the reason it was created-to tell the admins to edit. It's kind of hard to under stand but you will learn some day. Or after you just read this message.-- Angel David ( talk• contribs) 00:27, 26 August, 2007 (User Talker Contributor)
I wanted to comment about the editprotected requests I disabled. I didn't think they were bad ideas, just that changes to the mediawiki interface should be well advertised, and changes to image licensing should be even more widely advertised. Otherwise it just leads to long arguments when someone realizes it was changed "behind their back". Please don't take any offense. — Carl ( CBM · talk) 00:58, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
I can understand why the text was removed, however there were some parts to the summary that weren't copied straight from another page (which was done long before I started editing the article), that you deleted also. I'm going to edit the pages again with summaries of the Marvel summaries - but it's a little hard to write about something with only one source of information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bronzie ( talk • contribs) 06:22, August 26, 2007 (UTC)
Oops, I'd forgotten about those images, and no one warned me about the licenses before you came along. Sorry about that, I was such a noob when I uploaded these. :-| I've fixed the licenses now though. -- SilentAria talk 15:47, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
I believe I still do, But it is in SPanish.-- Charleenmerced Talk 20:12, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
Hi. Re the Childers pic, I wasn't the person who got the permission. It was a user called JJ. I simply left details clarifying it. I did speak many years ago to the then Assistant Press Officer to the President of Ireland and she said Wikipedia could use the pictures of the presidents from the presidential website but we weren't specifically talking about the Childers pic. The problem is that there is unlikely to be any other image available better suited than his official one. All the others will be the copyright of media outlets.
FearÉIREANN
\
(caint)
03:00, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for the thinly vield threat to delete all the images I've uploaded to Wikipedia. Please be very, very careful that you do not delete all of them, since most are photographs that I have taken and are in full compliance with Wikipedia's new, highly restrictive and bizarre "non-free" image policies. Over agressive editing is attempting to denude Wikipedia of perfectly legimate images, and frankly, it's a stupid mistake. But if it makes people feel good to conduct Jihads like this, more power to them. - Nhprman 03:36, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
OK I've added the email exchange to the image talk page. Have just removed actual email addresses to preserve privacy! Bluewave 10:55, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
If you look on the page, it says that the permission has been granted by Brodack herself. Henceforth I am deleting your tag on the image. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Yeahwhynot ( talk • contribs) 17:11, August 25, 2007 (UTC)
I hold the copyright on behalf of Brodack. | Yeah why not? | » Reply » | 08:35, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
I've been looking for it for a while, if i cant find it, i'll get her to send an email or something. | Yeah why not? | » Reply » | 16:47, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
Hello. What don't you understand about the copyright tags? It's fair use as an album cover, but it has been released into the public domain by its creator. I ran it by him to be sure, and his reply was that all of the images on his website were public domain. The Evolution Control Committee is well known for advocating free use of all intellectual property. Is there some other way this information should be conveyed? Aelffin 01:18, 27 August 2007 (UTC)
-trying to write up the cc-by-sa letter of release to forward to the photographer of this image and i notice the standard letter says "the right to use the work in a commercial product". i was under the impression that the release of an image was for non-commercial uses only. (ie, seems only fair that if i'm asking someone to release their rights to an image, someone else shouldn't be able to come along and make money off of using the same image). is there a non-commercial use only way to go with this -- or is it all or nothing. just curious. thanks. J. Van Meter 15:16, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
Because it seemed you were the one who put the article up for deletion and/or protected it, can you please add Image:Akatsukispread.jpg onto the upper right hand corner of List of Akatsuki members so that, while it still exists, will have an image on the upper-right hand corner (which seems to be a requirement on Wikipedia). You're an admin, so it seems you can ignore protections. Artist Formerly Known As Whocares 20:47, 28 August 2007 (UTC)
You asked me to prove I've been given permission to put the image here but I am unsure how to go about this. I emailed them and they sent over a folder of images. There isn't much to show. ( Emperor 02:52, 30 August 2007 (UTC))
hope it's ok, but i'm going to remove the email address on the permission letter for the Little Theater photo. privacy issues and all. if there's a problem with that, let me know. J. Van Meter 14:44, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
Both of the photos used have been used with the express permission of the copyright holders. In addition, both photos are well established and have been in use for a long time. Quit stuffing straw men and find something constructive to do. Michaelh2001 16:23, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
The image is certainly replacable, unfortunatly I don't live in Warsaw so I can't do it easily. The owner gave us permission for use a year ago; I send him an @ asking for a free licence for the photo. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 16:44, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
Sorry for the talk page clutter. Like Piotrus, I sent the owner a email asking to use the photo in Wikipedia, and the owner gave me permission to do so. I was uncertain which license to state it was under, so I used the fair use tag. But based on their response it should be acceptable to use in Wikipedia and works based on Wikipedia. I don't know of any replaceable images for it. So I don't think it should be deleted. I could use some guidance in this issue, though. Jimmy C. 17:34, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
Hi. I have recieved permission from the label owner of Pickled Egg records regarding the image in question, and additionally am in contact with the band themselves occasionally. Nigel has already granted usage of the image in question, and I'm sure I can get a release from the band as well (they are, however, rather hard to get hold of). I will be away until Monday at a festival; could you please hold off on deleting this image until I have a chance to sort things out? Thanks, and thank you for the courtesy of informing me on my talkpage as well, which many people do not do when tagging FU images! -- Kaini 18:12, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
Thank your for your explanation. As soon as the ban on editing is lifted from that article, I will provide the proper source and modify my contribution to have it meet Wikipedia's standards. -- rafvrab 03:10, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for creating this quick fix, it's nice to have the script functional again. ˉˉ anetode ╦╩ 08:26, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
No free images exist or can be created. Please leave the images alone and move on. I'm sure your intentions are good but you are wrong in these two cases. Lets just move on. I ask that respectfully. Michaelh2001 16:37, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
How come the image was marked for deletion and in fact, removed completely? The image came directly from her personal blog, and full permission was sought and granted by her and her management company to use the picture on Wikipedia. I know it's not under a free commons license, but full permission to use the picture on Wikipedia was duly granted. This was stated alongside the image but it was still removed.
Does Wikipedia have a policy of only allowing free images now, regardless of granted rights or permissions from other sources?
WikiPedia's information on copyright and images is so complicated and convoluted, it's a wonder many people put as much time as they do in to contributing to articles. If permission-given pictures are not allowed, it should be clearly stated on the copyright pages, as apposed to the circular entries currently on the subject.
If Wikipedia wish to be that strict on it's permission-given images, why not watermark them as "Wikipedia Use Only" so it's clearly stamped across the picture and then can't be used anywhere else?
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.211.145.251 ( talk) 10:09, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for deleting those pics off the Gary Whitta page. Both were totally free and released for wikipedia use by their authors, and I had included that informatino on those pages. But you deleted them because I must have used the wrong tag or something silly.
Double thanks for complete deletion even though it hasn't been seven days since the notice was posted. A+++!
-- shift6 20:43, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
I disagree with your last edit summary. The spoiler tags are nescessary because that section gives away all of the suspense about 2/3 of the way through the plot details. I hate spoiling a book that someone is reading, and I think it would be very helpful to have the spoiler warnings.
p.s. please respond on my talk page, thanks
Connör ( talk) 21:48, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
There is a new subthread having proposed language for Wikipedia:User page. You previously commented on this matter and your comments at Collection of material proposed language would be appreciated. Hopefully, we can bring this to a close with the next day or two. -- Jreferee ( Talk) 18:16, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
Template:WPRT2 is messed up on Talk:Vaimanika_Shastra and has this same problem on other pages can you fix this-- Java7837 21:36, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
Well how about it? You are someone, how about going to Automobiles Venturi and clicking that tab that says move page? Consensus has nothing to do with making the move. The article just has the wrong name. 199.125.109.44 03:29, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
What? You want me to create "moveventuri" as a username and never use it again? That is silly. 199.125.109.35 23:19, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
Re: this comment, I am willing to take a look at Peano axioms again. You probably already know about my draft version, which I think is currently a drop-in replacement for the main article. Sorry for the long delay in responding, but I was kept away from Wikipedia by real life. — Kaustuv Chaudhuri 08:39, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Carl, I appreciate that you are doing what you think best for the encyclopedia. So am I. One of the other advocates for a strong interpretation of policy restrictions on non-free content, Videmus Omnia, recently brought a request for arbitration to help sort out the way in which discussions are proceeding. Unfortunately, it looks like arbitration don't want to touch it; but even so, I am just letting you know that I have raised as an issue the multitude of different pages that get involved in these divisive discussions. I did not mention you by name, and so it is entirely up to you whether you would like to comment on your own behalf or not. But as a courtesy, I am letting you know that it is on file. See: Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration#Non-free_media_at_Intelligent_design. Cheers — Duae Quartunciae ( talk · cont) 14:49, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for nothing Carl. You have succeeded in making an article less than what it could be by deleting an image for which the owner approved use.
From : Richard Morris <RMorris@shp.org> Sent : Thursday, May 31, 2007 10:28 AM To : cdman882 Subject : RE: Author Troy Tompkins (Troy CLE)
your welcome to use it. -R Morris
You see, that is why I am very close to ceasing my efforts to edit on Wikipedia. Too much red tape and bureaucracy. -- Cdman882 15:34, 7 September 2007 (UTC)
or so it would seem.— DCGeist 16:43, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
It's an important event in both the characters' lives, which you'd know if you knew anything about them. -- DrBat 12:12, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Thank you. :) [[User:ea . Aelffin 12:49, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
At 06:22 AM 8/27/2007, you wrote: Hey Mark, some Wikipedia editors are getting pissy about image copyrights. Would you mind providing a quote I could put on the images I uploaded from your website? Something to the effect of “I’m Mark Gunderson and I approve this image.” Thanks! Have fun at the burn! (jealous) -Nathan Hi Nathan; you have the permission of myself (TradeMark Gunderson) and The Evolution Control Committee to use materials of all kinds (including images, audio, video, and text) in any way you see fit. Such as Wikipedia. Thanks! - TradeMark G. :.e.c.c.: -- ecc@evolution-control.com "It was twenty years ago today..." or ecc@pobox.com The Evolution Control Committee http://evolution-control.com Established 1987 SKYPE: trademarkg ... ICQ: 1353166 ... AIM: TradeMarkECC MYSPACE: www.myspace.com/theecc ... YAHOO: evolution_controlled_creations TRIBE: http://people.tribe.net/trademarkg ... GMail/GTalk: gunderson.mark@gmail.com
Well, the words he used the first time I emailed him were "public domain" and I take "use in any way you see fit" to indicate exactly that. It doesn't matter though. This email is sufficient to ward off those editors who would prefer to erode Wikipedia's function by obstructing the use of images. Thanks for your time. Have fun with your image vandalism. Aelffin 04:52, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
{{ editprotected}} Dear Administrator CBM, I am requesting immediate removal of material on the wikipage Archdiocese of Miami that you locked in under the version edited by DominvsVobiscm. Specifically, allegations by Sharon Bourassa's dismissed lawsuit saying our priests are all practicing homosexuals who steal church funds to live exhorbitant lifestyles, the ownership in the liquid aphrodisiac which happens to be this http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-149600240.html , everything in this section. As you can see by visiting the third party reference to the supposed liquid aphrodisiac, the beverages sold by this company are marketed as "energy drinks". No where does this company say that it is selling a liquid aphrodisiac. In no newspaper is it reported that any of these drinks are aphrodisiacs that are sold in gay bars. I would also like to point out that there are no references that Wikipedia would allow to sustain having any of the material in this section, yet you are clearly allowing it to stay. I searched for any third party references to any investigations of any Archdiocese of Miami priest for stealing money and there are none. I searched for any third party references to find any kind of evidence that would sustain an accusation that over 400 priests are sexually active homosexuals. There are none. Wikipedia policy states that extraordinary claims must have extraordinary sources. This does not exist to sustain these claims. I have four school age children here. Sharon Bourassa and her tiny catholic hate group told entire schools full of children, including my own that the priests they have loved and known all their lives are practicing homosexuals because they own real estate (just like doctors do when investing) with other priests. (Archdiocese of Miami requires their priests to provide for their own retirement) I watched my child cry for over two hours and she only stopped after I told her that her own father owns a hunting cabin with his hunting friends, owning real estate does not mean a person is an active homosexual, nor that they have bought it with stolen funds. One priest lives in a home on the intracoastal. He is an only child who has lived in this home most of his life with his parents. When his parents died, he inherited the home which is three blocks from his parish. Sharon Bourassa assumes that since it is on the intracoastal, it is a luxury home he owns with stolen parish funds. This is such a horrible defamation of good, innocent priests who have been loving and kind to our kids and it is so painful to see this garbage being proclaimed on Wikipedia, with your help and approval. Please remove this material that clearly violates wikipolicies WP:Redflag, WP:Proveit, WP:NPOV#undue weight, and WP:RS If you visit the mediation page of John Favalora you will see many editors who have a consensus that this material should be removed. The only person who wants this material on this site is DominvsVobiscm. If you visit his talk page you will see how many times he has been reprimanded for vandalizing Catholic sites in Wikipedia. This is not an unbiased Wiki editor. This is a person using Wikipedia to turn Catholic sites into anti Catholic propaganda. I intend to turn this informatin over to the Catholic League for prosecution if it is allowed to stay. NancyHeise 14:10, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi, thanks for visiting the protected Fred Thompson article in response to my request for an immediate edit. You said that a previous version is only restored if the current version contains false info. However, the protected version does contain false information. It starts as follows: Freddie Dalton "Fred" Thompson. There is no document on the face of the Earth that writes the man's name like this. It has never been written this way anywhere by anyone. The editor who wrote it has not cited any instance in human history where it has been written this way. It is false. Ferrylodge 19:16, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Could you please unprotect this article as it has been requested? The new version seems to satisfy all the involved editors (as some of them participated in writing and refining it). TIA. Alæxis ¿question? 19:46, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
Carl, I've been noticing you around free / non-free content stuff recently. I'm impressed with your knowledge and calm. (I am especially impressed by the latter, as it is something I lack!) Thanks for promoting free content while you are at it. :-) -- Iamunknown 21:05, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
You have left a message on my page attesting to your will to delete the 'Doc Gyneco' image, which, you argued, did not follow rules.
I went through a decent amount of effort for the photographer of the subject to release the image for use in Wikipedia. I did so, because I could not find other not-copyrighted images. The photographer who took the picture specifically allowed me to use it.
I will now proceed to bring the image back, and add a tag on it that you said I would need. If you wish to delete it again, then do so - with the knowledge that Wikipedia will certainly suffer from it, by rejecting quality material even if it used legally (in any sense of that word.)
Regards, -- DragonFly31 21:31, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
I've just read the free/non free guidelines, and it is still beyond my imagination as to why you would want to delete the image. All 10 points of the guidelines can easily be argued for the safekeeping of the image, and your deleting it only served to lower the general Wikipedia standard. I'm not going to upload it again, for the simple reason that I cannot find it - but the reason I uploaded it is it was a very good picture taken by a famous photographer (Roberto Frankenberg), who came in contact with me specifically to use it in this encyclopedia...
My point being, while it may be useful to delete certain images which don't carry free liscences, here the article has been severely apoverished by a lack of image (which, it is obvious, is key for the viewer to not only visualize the article he is reading about particularly in this case but also keep him interested in reading more).
Hence, it is because of such trivial deleting, for the sake of just doing so, and the awful use of common sense and reason such as you have shown that alter this encyclopedia in a negative way and contribute to its negative reputation. Just because another user agreed with you does not make your descision right, even by your invoked guideline's rules.-- DragonFly31 09:30, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
Carl, If you can start your opening comment on the deletion reviews with Endorse, Relist or Overturn (depending on your point of view), it would probably help the closing admin as they read through the discussion. Thanks - Nv8200p talk 14:40, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi Carl. I just semi-protected a page ( Dependent and independent variables). It has been a while and I couldn't find where the proper procedure is explained. Do I need to do anything except for actually semi-protecting the page and putting Template:pp-semi-vandalism on it? There used to be a list of protected pages, but I believe that is no longer used. -- Jitse Niesen ( talk) 03:13, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
Our article on the Eiffel tower suggests that these images are not copyrighted in the United States Eiffel Tower#_note-15. These byzantine country-specific copyright laws are still confusing for me - could you explain exactly what are the relevant issues for photos of "copyrighted buildings" and Wikimedia commons? I need some help understanding this area. — Carl ( CBM · talk) 14:52, 11 September 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for your assistance in that question. The source have appeared, but it is still unverifiable or very generalized. Alex Spade 16:16, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi, could you elaborate on this edit summary: "this was recreated because the license was now claimed to be free, but email to the copyright owner shows it is not a free image." What email are you referring to? Kaldari 19:07, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
- I'm inquiring about the copyright status of images of Time magazine covers such as the one at the link below. It is the cover from Aug 24, 1953:
- In response to a previous inquiry, I was informed by a representative from Wright's Reprints that the cover was still under copyright. However, a search of U.S. Copyright Office records for 1980 and 1981 reveals that no copyright renewal on the magazine, its cover, or any of its contents was filed within 28 years of original publication--such renewal would have been necessary to maintain Time Inc.'s copyright. If there was an error in this search, and Time Inc. did indeed file the required renewal, could you please give me the U.S. Copyright Office record number? If indeed the required renewal was not filed per then prevailing copyright law, does Time Inc. claim continued copyright on some other basis, or was the response from Wright's Reprints incorrect? Thank you.
I noticed you removed a spoiler tag on some novella. I would ask that you refrain from doing so for the rest of this week; a couple of editors asked me to conduct a sami-scientific survey on spoiler usage, and you can bet some of the pro-spoiler editors would be annoyed when they see its "the anti-spoiler brigade" at work. David Fuchs ( talk) 21:15, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
Great. Thanks for the research. Corvus cornix 22:50, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
I noticed that you had responded on the talk page of this template, so I'm turning to you for a bit of advice...
On the last run of my bot with this template, the category did not "pipe" the article name, instead it left included the talk page in the category and not the article. I had used "|category:Book stubs", which I thought would produce [[Category:Book stubs|article name]], however it simply put the [[Category:Book stubs]] (not piped) on the talk page, which means that the talk pages are transcluded to the category listing pages, and not the article pages themselves. I'm probably missing something really simple here - suggestions? SkierRMH 00:48, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
I would like to know why the edit request was declined on the page Archdiocese of Miami. The page is locked in its most offensive form, the information contains obvious violations of Wikipedia policy and lacks not only reliable but in some cases any references. NancyHeise 03:08, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
From: nancyheise@aol.com To: info-en-v@wikimedia.org Sent: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 12:14 am Subject: material locked on Archdiocese of Miami Wiki pages Dear Wikipedia,I am a Wiki editor user name NancyHeise which is also my real name. I am writing to alert you to material that has been locked on these Wikipedia sites:1) Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Miami http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_Archdiocese_of_Miami and 2)Roman Catholic Sex Abuse Cases http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_sex_abuse_cases. Requests for edits to material on these sites have been repeatedly denied. The pages are locked into their most offensive form submitted by user DominvsVobiscm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DominvsVobiscvm
As you can see from his talk page, DominvsVobiscm has been reprimanded several times for vandalising Roman Catholic Sites but is never blocked even when he violated the three revert rule. His vandalism is locked onto these two sites. The discussion pages of these sites is complete with consensus of all editors (except DominvsVobiscm) who reject his material listing the numerous Wikipedia policies it violates.Wikipedia states on its information page that vandalism is dealt with swiftly yet the Archdiocese of Miami page has been locked for a month.Please consider that the way that Wikipedia is reacting to this vandalism appears to be an endorsement of this blatant anti Catholic hate material. The evidence is very easy to copy and send to the Catholic League for prosecution. As a parishioner of the Archdiocese of Miami, I know there are groups of parishioners here who will not hesitate to do that. I am writing you to tell you that the way this material is being handled is only helping the case of a possible future lawsuit and/or negative media attention against Wikipedia. For a listing of the offensive material and why it should be removed, please see the three editprotected tags that have been denied edits on the discussion page of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Catholic_Archdiocese_of_Miami Thank you for your attention to this matter. Sincerely, Nancy Heise
Immediately upon the apparent lifting of a block for User:Northmeister, he maliciously deleted relevant comments by me on the talk page of Talk:Anchor baby. [2] This is apparently why he wanted his block lifted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ramsey2006 ( talk • contribs) 04:25, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
I note that you removed the, perfectly justified, disputed fair-use tag from the above image. As an administrator I would expect you to uphold the principles and legal obligations of Wikipedia, not ride roughshod over them. As the non-free book documentation itself states, each such book cover image needs "a detailed fair use rationale for each use, as described on Wikipedia:Image description page, as well as the source of the work and copyright information. Please include in your fair use rationale details of the particular edition (publisher, market & year of publication) of the edition you have used, and also acknowledge any cover artist if such artist is acknowledged in that edition's frontmatter". None of these conditions was properly applied, yet you removed the tag in any case. Why? Pyrop e 12:19, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
The OES cannot be verified by internet, but I beleive there have been a few handmade books - for instance, the 16th-century ones I mentioned in the article - that mention OES. I am not affiliated with the organization, but since I joined wikipedia for the purpose of making this information known, i chose it as my username. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Oes23 ( talk • contribs) 12:47, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
Can you see the second request then please? One Night In Hackney 303 13:09, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
There is not a content dispute on this article. There is one editor, who is engaging in a disruptive way to prevent this article being expanded. There have been numerous sources provided, which are both verifiable and reliably sourced. One Editor, has provided nothing but commentary and opinion. Despite this, you have said consensus is required? I think you will need to provide the policies which state clearly, that referenced information that is verifiable and reliably sourced can be omitted because one editor dose not like it. Having wasted enough time on this and another article with the same editor, I want to know how, you came to this conclusion, and the relevant policies which governed your decision. -- Domer48 13:17, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
I agree one editor can not hold an article to ransom I asked the blocking admin to have a look but he is unfortunatly ill at the moment and on a wikibreak. BigDunc 13:22, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
I have wasted enough time on this, I would like answers to the questions I have posed. I've put forward a number of references, not on of which has been disputed with references. So show me the policies where opinions are favoured over references. It is discisions like this which fuel disputes. And editors who can not back up a claim, prefare to have articles protected. -- Domer48 13:49, 13 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi CBM
You unprotected Immigration to Australia yesterday. The edit war, infested with obvious socks, has broken out again. Please can you protect the wrong version again and perhaps knock some heads together? Thanks. Someone is bored at work 08:33, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Hello,
The image Vgsys.JPG has been deleted, because a lack of fair use rationale. The image (if not deleted) would qualify as fair use. I just didn't realize that no rationale had been given or that some was needed. The history page for the Video Game Console article seems like it says that you've used an automated tool to delete it. Is there any way to recover the image (archives, etc.) if I no longer have an offline copy of it.
Thanks, Altarbo 09:16, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Dear CBM, Thank you for responding to my edit protected tag on the Wikipedia page Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Miami. I would like to join the mediation group for this page and include the information that I supplied with the edit protected tag that you denied for editing. I think that information will be helpful to the mediation process. However, I see that the article has been referred to the Arbitration committee, I am not sure that my participation in mediation now will be included. How may I include my information for the Arbitrators to see? Is there a separate Wikipedia page for Arbitration that has been set up for editors to place items to be included into evidence? I can not find a link to any such page. Thank you in advance for your help. StacyyW 09:34, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
The behavior is confusing, but normal and expected (that's also the case with the current message, BTW). I've explained in more detail on the talk page; but if you want to see try doing a cut-and-paste of my sandbox version on an unexisting page and preview the change , then look at the result after being saved. You can see the same behavior with the current message. — Coren (talk) 03:21, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Hello Carl,
thank you very much for your help with pulling out the templates! I appreciate it a lot. It contains about 7.000 reference templates, which is a good amount of data to get at least the references which occur more often, i.e. all standard books etc.
I will need some time to prepare the items for adding them to the database. For example, some templates have "author= " and other malformatting. However, the general quality of the content is quite good. If you are interested in the details, have a look at a discussion with KSmrq at
my talk page.
Jakob.scholbach 15:40, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
The VeblenBot may be malfunctioning. The current versions of the following lists are definitely incorrect:
For example, Trigonometric function (a former Featured Article) currently appears in the list of Stub Class, Top Priority articles. Jim 18:47, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
There was no attempt to add information; it was the insertion of the nude photo, and links to the nude photo, that I was worried about. That said, I would watch what's added beyond what's already there; there's no need to add information unless it's relevant and sourced - specific rumors, etc. that obviously fail BLP shouldn't be added. I'll look over the talk page; I was on a business trip over the weekend and didn't have internet access. Ral315 » 01:08, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
Hey, Carl - the reason I changed the template to subst is that standardized license templates are required by WP:IUP - in this case, {{ cc-by-3.0}}. By substing Bollywoodblog, you convert it to the correct license tag with the additional text in this template. Also, if these images are moved to the Commons (as they probably will be), {{ Bollywoodblog}} doesn't exist there and the license tag will get garbled in the transition. Videmus Omnia Talk 02:52, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
Sorry about that, I should have known better. I've removed the pictures. I also should have made it clearer, those are just random FAs, not one's I've contributed to in particular. :) Sorry for any confusion... Bella Swan 12:27, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
I did extend my comment at Template talk:Ambox#Needs to clear at the same time you answered, and didn't get an edit conflict so I did not know. You might want to check that you answered all you wanted to what I wrote. -- David Göthberg 14:18, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi Carl. How do we get a user blocked? The IP address 70.64.76.208 vandalized Clifford torus and appears to have been warned repeatedly. Thanks. VectorPosse 23:45, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
I think you may have misinterpreted there. I certainly wouldn't challenge an entire article because "everything" failed to have a citation on it. On the other hand, I sure don't mind challenging an article for which nothing is cited, especially when I can't find anything reliable either. If I can, easier just to add some cites. But without that, I really do doubt the veracity and suitability of the article. We should mirror, not second-guess, reliable sources, so it follows that if reliable independent sources have chosen to write little or nothing about a topic, we should mirror them—by writing nothing or mentioning the subject in passing in a different article. I suppose you could consider it stylistic, but one function of editors (that thing we all are) is to challenge and cut for both factual and stylistic reasons. Seraphimblade Talk to me 04:16, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
Hi. I thought you might wish to know that User:Monkeyspangler, who you blocked for link-spamming a few days back, appears to be at it again from two IPs: Special:Contributions/90.197.13.58 & Special:Contributions/90.197.13.40. Hrafn Talk Stalk 14:34, 20 September 2007 (UTC)
re:TfD nomination of {{ 1632 covers}}
Template:1632 covers has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. — Carl ( CBM · talk) 19:45, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
Carl, you've apparently intervened in the Simon Wessely problem. Could you confirm if you have unlocked the page? It appears to be still locked. If you have not unlocked the page as such, could you clarify what your comment meant, as it is not clear to me. Many thanks Angela Kennedy Angela Kennedy 17:01, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
Why was this update reverted? The beauty of wikipedia is that it can be at the cutting edge of new developments. You've obviously not seen the news recently, gardeners in Scotland have been conducting trials since 1989 about the logical patterns behind planting trees, and other assorted plants. They represent their findings using first order logic, because propositional logic does not easily allow for the domain (that is, the particular area of planting), to be taken into account. A simple search on google should confirm this if you are still unsatisfied, in the meantime I will be reverting to my edit of the article. Thanks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 79.67.229.108 ( talk) 16:06:10, August 19, 2007 (UTC)
Hi, I changed some words in an effort to make it read in an encyclopedic style, I hope that suffices. My original reason for adding to the article was that it read "most mathematicians do not doubt the consistency of ZFC". Technically this statement is true, but it is misleading. Most mathematicians do not know what the axioms of ZFC are!- Manifesto50 23:11, 8 September 2007
Thanks for your assistance with Tennenbaum's theorem -- I quite agree! Zero sharp 20:51, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
Hello. I would like to ask you to reconsider your revert on the NOR policy page for the following reasons:
In short, I personally feel that there is nothing wrong with the profusion of hidden comments to warn potential editors. I added it to every section (though extremely redundant), so that somebody couldn't say the just hit a section edit button and didn't see the warning. With the warnings so prominent, contentious edits (even if an amount of time has slipped by), can still be easily reverted back if proper policy hasn't been followed. Otherwise, much time is wasted talking back and forth to revert those edits that may have slipped through unnoticed or otherwise unchallenged at that time, with the original "inserter" arguing that it's been there unchallenged for a while.
I don't see the comments as hurting anything and I only made them in an attempt to offer a quick way out for any contentious future edits on a policy page that has seen an abnormal amount of editting within the last year. This is extremely bad for an official policy.
Thank you for considering this. wbfergus Talk 13:24, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Let's put any further comments on WT:NOR to keep the discussion together. — Carl ( CBM · talk) 13:40, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Do not set the CSS style {clear: both} on ambox since User:Dispenser suggested a much better solution that at least works perfectly in all my browsers. See examples that shows the new solution at Template talk:Ambox#Needs to clear.
-- David Göthberg 02:01, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for removing the comment from my talk page and handling the matter. It's appreciated. -- Rob 19:17, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for blocking this anonymous account, but you may want to check out Michael Dorosh. Since it is claimed right on that user page, I think it's pretty obvious that the anonymous IP is simply used as a sockpuppet for that account when it is under fire. You may also want to take a look at the pages created by that user that are currently tagged for speedy deletion. Thanks! -- Ioeth 21:22, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
I'm a little surprised that we haven't generated any discussion yet. I wonder if we did such a good job that it's uncontroversial or boring to everyone. Do you think we should post a notice anywhere else like village pump? I think people were discussing / asking about it there. Perhaps WP:FURG though that's a quieter page, Wikipedia:copyright, WP:CSD? It's not canvassing because we're simply alerting people to an important proposal that they shouldn't miss. Wikidemo 23:27, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
Regarding Wikipedia:Templates for deletion/Log/2007 September 17#Template:Infobox Oh My Goddess! character, I do think it would be fair to userfy it simply if anyone wanted to keep the history of it (for ideas, remembering how a certain look was achieved, etc). I did so with one such template during the 4th anime character infobox TfD, and no one seemed to have any objection to that. I don't know if anyone want to keep it for that reason, but I don't think it would be an unreasonable request, should the request be made. Just thought I'd put that out there. -- Ned Scott 04:01, 27 September 2007 (UTC)
Why are you deleting Meerkat Manor more info's user page? Its their user page, they can do what they want. Cruise meerkat 02:06, 28 September 2007 (UTC)
Re: I appreciate that it can be hard to understand our licensing policies; we do take copyrights seriously, which makes the policies somewhat cryptic for new users. If you would like to give permission for others to use this image, the best way is to release it under a free license. Either of the GFDL or CC-BY-SA licenses is acceptable to us. If you agree to release the image under either of these licenses, all you have to do is send me an email that says you are the copyright holder and explicitly states the license you choose (you can use the "email this user" link on User:CBM). I will take care of all the details after that. If you have questions, feel free to contact me on my talk page. — Carl (CBM · talk) 00:43, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
Hey. I need some help fixing my signature, I can not save it into my preferences. Can you please help with this? Thanks.
STORMTRACKER 94 Stormtracker94 00:52, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
STORMTRACKER 94 Stormtracker94 00:58, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
STORMTRACKER 94 Stormtracker94 20:08, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
Would you be able to undelete this image, as I would like to write a fair use rationale for it? Carcharoth 16:34, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
It really seems to me that it's time for the spoiler tag on Sōsuke Aizen to go. The tag is right at the top of the page, which means that it doesn't discriminate between the "spoiled" content and any other kind of content.
A tag saying that the whole page is a spoiler isn't much help. Someone who wanted to read about Sōsuke Aizen without having their experience spoiled—I'm not sure who that would be, but let's assume they exist—wouldn't find any joy in a tag that covers the whole page.
What do you think??? Marc Shepherd 18:27, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
I replied on my talk page, thanks. Videmus Omnia Talk 21:45, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
Sorry for jumping at conclusions. I recently performes massive tagging of articles; I edited this article as well, and I thought it was my work reverted, without explanations as if I was an anon vandal. Apologies again. `' Míkka 01:35, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for looking into the picture issue. I'm still a bit new so all the rationale & tagging stuff is still a learning process for me. I'll remove the picture. Thanks again. :) Pinkadelica 06:10, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
It was I who contacted the Bollywood blog and got the license under 3.0. User:Riana and Videmus contacted the site also and recived an email of verification ♦ Sir Blofeld ♦ "Talk"? 11:41, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
Bill here,
I hear you. Thanks. I've developed a (bit) thicker skin over the 2 years I've been doing this, I had spent almost a whole day trying to figure out how to present it, and it got big. I'll be more careful about the long posts, or give a "warning" that I'm using the post as a "holding point" while I develop something. With respect to this I just didn't feel like I have any other recourse. The watchdogs will strip everything off the article page. This isn't the first time I've encountered this problem. I've even read wikipedia articles about this phenomenon of an uber-watchdog and his minions that circle around, Old-Man-in-the-Sea-like, to devour any carcass that happens to enter their water. Whether that's what's actually going on here, I don't know, it feels like it. And as you will see on the talk page, I may be pushing a POV that, although I can't take credit for it (blame Turing, Minsky, Enderton), is unusual. wvbailey Wvbailey 19:09, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I would like to see the Psychiatric abuse talk page, if possible. Thanks! -- Mattisse 02:16, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
re: Wikipedia:Non-free content criteria/Proposal
All the discussion of templates seems to be ignoring things in place such as: {{ Non-free media rationale}}. Why not discuss how such will be superceded, augmented, or changed to implement this measure? // Fra nkB 18:52, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
That is a really nice article. Crisp, clean, to the point. I thought Kleene had something to do with this, but I don't see it as "fixed point" in his 1952's index, nor in van H nor in Undecidable (not indexed as "fixed point", anyway). I'll keep my eyes open and report back if I see anything.
Whether Rosser's 1939 An Informal Exposition of proofs of Godel's Theorm and Church's Theorem (Undecidable p. 223) is apropos, I dunno. But Rosser is very interesting because of his elegant summary of Gödel 1931's development, plus Rosser's further expansion of it where he "call[s] attention to an extra assumption implicit in the "for suitable L" of lemma 1, namely that "z = φ(x,x)" be expressible in L, where φ(x,y) is the function defined below [etc]" (cf p. 227 in Undecidable). Rosser is the first place where I've seen this so cleanly presented. He footnotes that Godel had intended to do this, but because of illness did not.
This unwritten assumption apparently inside G's 1st incompleteness theorem has bothered me since I got enough background to be able to even attempt to follow his argument in the original. The other strange thing was the fact that a function could be Godelized, but so could a number be Godelized as a string of successor functions, and (the question of whether or not) they could be two representations of the same number, and if so or if not, what this would imply. I'll have to study the Diagonal lemma article carefully. Bill Wvbailey 17:29, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
Kleene 1943, also Kleene 1952:303: This isn't the same thing is it?
There's a bit of discussion after this, RE how truly broad this theorem is casting its net. Wvbailey 17:48, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the "splitting" explanation, this really helps. Lately I've been wondering about Tarski and his theorm, there's a bio in the bookstore but I don't know anything about his work. I will pursue. Thanks, Bill Wvbailey 19:10, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
I found, not the source of, but a hint at the nature of my confusion/association with Kleene: the article Recursion theorem also refers to Kleene's theorem(s) as the "fixed point theorem". I found "the theorem" indexed in Enderton as "fixed point lemma" and Boolos-Burgess-Jeffrey 2002 in a heading as "27.3 The Fixed Point and Normal Form Theorems" but in the index as "De Songh-Sambin theorem" (unclear if this is the same thing). I have yet to encounter "diagonal lemma" in an index. I have not found any attribution to Kleene or anyone else, for that matter.
The B-B-J version is a frightening presentation in "modal logic" with symbols ⃞ for necessity and "diamond" for possibly, and other unfamiliar-to-Bill symbols. With the strange bracketing it resembles the earlier version of the diagonal lemma article, i.e. before you edited it. Enderton (I believe), is more in the spirt of yours, e.g. using #(ε) to indicate a Godel number (cf p. 225). But yours is at least an order-of- magnitude more accessible than either of these.
Kleene's Normal Form Theorem is definitely 1943, reprinted in The Undecidable pp. 254ff. Carnap 1934 in the translation 1937 is indeed referenced by Kleene 1952 re use of language. Indeed ... in his 1943 §15 (Undecidable p. 281-282) I see Rosser, Tarski, Quine referenced in footnotes, and a "Carnap's rule" where Kleene is discussing something interesting: "Rosser has shown how Godel theorms arise on going very far in the direction of nonconstructiveness" etc. I get it: he is discussing "non-constructive logics" and "ordinal logics", i.e. "transfinite extensions of deductive reasoning." In his 1952 Bibliography Kleene warns that the reader should omit this §15 because of an error in his 1944 (!). But maybe there's something useful in Kleene's 1943 §15 discussion re non-constructiveness: it's over my head, I can't tell. Also see, in his 1952 index under his own name i.e. p. 527 in my edition (10th printing, emended in the 6th reprint 1971) where he criticises his own works 1943 and 1944. There is spooky stuff relative to Quine 1940. Bill Wvbailey 15:55, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
We just had an edit conflict: I was just writing to say I blundered. I looked right at "diagonal lemma" in the index and missed it. I have the 4th edition, (they added Burgess in this 4th edition 2002). The presentation was moved to chapter 17. There is indeed a Lemma 17.2; the write-up looks to be a good one. Thanks, Bill Wvbailey 16:23, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
I made a couple of minor edits on this project page and only later realised, at this stage, you were inviting coments on talk. Anyway, I hope I haven't done any harm. I'll now put a comment in its talk. Thincat 13:32, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
Why do the axioms include definitions of + and * (multiply)? Why not just define the signs + and * in terms of a string of symbols that include "zero" and "successor"? Is it because (some form of behavior, i.e.) induction (recurson?) is being (indirectly) defined via these axioms? Are the five schemata of primitive recursion considered to be an actual axiom schema? And if not, why not?
The reason I ask is two-fold: (1) One form of counter-machine model has the Peano-like instruction set { INCrement(r,next), CLeaR(r,next) Jump-if-equal(r1,r2,branch,next) } ("r" is a "register", a place that holds a (variable) quantity of "markers"). In this model we can define all the recursive functions. It is true that, when we tear the machine apart to see what it is really doing, we see modus ponens at work in the "next instruction" transformation and in the "conditional jump" transformation ("IF [r1]=[r2] THEN "branch" OR IF [r1]≠[r2] THEN "next", what we engineers call "AND-OR-SELECT"). I don't see that + and * are required anywhere, altho if they are it is probably in this primitive CASE instruction (but it would be a binary event, e.g. only two outcomes are possible for the Jump-if-equal instruction: 0*branch+1*next => next, or 1*branch+0*next => branch; here we don't need the full axiom set for + and *).
(2) The Kalmár bibliographic note in Kleene 1952:526 states that Kalmár proposed "as a basis for elementary functions", "the variables, 1, +, |a-b|, Σz (y=w), Πz(y=w)". [am confused: why, if we eliminate * we still have Π, but anyway...]. The Kalmár basis looks suspiciously like the "instructions" of the counter machine, where "+" is taking the role of "successor", and |a-b| is perhaps redundant, too. (The other counter-machine model, the Minsky version, requires |a-b| in the form: { INCrement(r,next), DeCRement(r,next), Jump-if-zero(r,branch,next) } ).
Do you know anything about this Kalmar business? Are there other bases such as Kalmar's even more primitive? Am I confusing "axioms" and "bases"? thanks, Bill Wvbailey 16:33, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
Hi Carl, There are now over 900,000 articles assessed by WikiProjects using the WP1.0 assessment scheme. Over at WP:1.0, we want to get a bot to sift through all of these data and select articles that meet the requirements for an offline release such as WP:V0.7. We had someone start writing a bot for this, but he has now moved onto other things (outside Wikipedia, I think) and he has lost all interest in the project. Would you be willing to help with writing a bot? VeblenBot has been giving us regular, valuable information on V0.7 - thank you for that! You can see an outline of the plans here, which are based on giving each article a "score" (additive or multiplicative) based on its quality and importance. Currently Version 0.7 (our next release) is completely stalled for want of this bot. Can you help? Thanks, Walkerma 20:27, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
Reference: Thom Hansen. Can you help me understand why the photo of Thom as Panzi was tagged for deletion by you on 30 August 2007? I am rather new to Wikipedia and do not understand all of the codes and rules here. The same picture is available publicly at http://www.fireislandinvasion.com/2panzi.htm and I have his permission to use it. He sent me the picture. Also, lots of his bio information was recently changed and deleted too. Thanks for any help you can provide. njcraig 12 October 2007 (UTC)
Why did you remove this template? Copyright issues are a serious concern on Wikipedia, and simply removing potential copyvio templates puts us at risk. Thanks in advance. / Blaxthos 13:38, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia has only one set of admins, but a user ignorant of how to do open heart surgery should not add material on how to do open heart surgery. Similarly if an an admin is so ignorant of mathematics that he does not know whether it's an assertion of notability to say that he doesn't know whether proving the existence of n-manifolds with no differentiable structure is or is not an assertion of notability, then he should leave it alone.
I put something there that I found in Kleene 1952; I needed an expansion re the notion of the "object theory" of its metatheory and the notion of a "model" of the object theory. I need a precise, firm and correct notion of formal system. You might want to fix what I wrote. Bill Wvbailey 20:14, 18 October 2007 (UTC)
Did you mean to apply indefinite full protection to this disambiguation page? Seems like sprotection would be more than enough to discourage anons and new users looking for the sandbox.--VectorPotential Talk 17:05, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
I thought that e-mail address was only for when images are released under a free license, not when Wikipedia gets permission to use an image that is otherwise unfree/fair use ( Wikipedia:Requesting copyright permission, where instructions on sending copies of permissions to that address are given, doesn't mention these cases). Wikipedia:Publicity photos mentions reprinting the mails on the image's talk page, but it's not policy or guideline, and I think I read some other other place that one shouldn't do that. -- Fritz S. ( Talk) 11:53, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
Carl: why was the image of Saskia Sassen deleted?... Oh... I just read what you posted on my talk page on Aug 30, and no the image is not replaceable: it is a photo of Professor Sassen, obtained from the person who took it and posted with permission, and it took a great deal of time & effort to understand & explain & arrange all that. I don't know of any other suitable & available photos of her, myself, and I did look pretty extensively back when I initially found this one. So would you please put the image back wherever it was before and let me know? I'll insert explanations of its irreplaceability wherever you want them, but I really don't want to go through the whole process of setting it all up again.
-- Kessler 00:22, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
"One way to continue to use this image would be to ask the photographer to release it under a free license (such as CC-BY-SA)"... I thought this is what it had. I'm sure I got that or something like it from him and posted it on the image page. I remember going back & forth with someone here originally on that. -- Kessler 01:01, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
Why on earth have you deleted my picture from the Wikipedia entry on me (Gary Howe)
I've seen you talking about 'copyright' issues, but if that's the case why don't you try and contact anyone before simply deleting it?
My picture was a silly picture of me taken by my wife and was clearly not a professional picture
In addition, what gives you the right to remove pictures from Wikipedia pages?
And it's clear that you've annoyed quite a few people with your ridiculous nannying attitude.
Gary Howe —Preceding unsigned comment added by Garyhowe100 ( talk • contribs) 18:01, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for adding the needed data on this image! - Ahunt 18:22, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
Based on these comments of 2 uninvolved admins, [5] [6] [7], your decision to institute zero RR and blocking instead of page protection was not supported by policy or guideline. I'd like an apology on my talk page please - I'm owed at least that. Odd nature 19:40, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
Have you even bothered to read the conversation, before issuing threats? There were four people in support of one version, two (last I checked) who said they didn't see the difference, and one who was going on about leftwing journalists and Bill Clinton who wanted to change the page because he didn't trust the sources. And you issue threats for that sort of nonsense? Guettarda 20:41, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
You blocked ON for reverting to the version that had 4:1 support? Seriously? You do know that we work on the basis on consensus, right? Guettarda 20:45, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
One edit in three days is not disruptive. On the other hand, threatening editors, blocking productive editors, inventing new rules on the fly - that is disrupting the project. I had a little while, logged in to work on an article...and I found your nonsense. I'd say your decision to waste everyone's time, to engage in threats, that's disruption. Odd Nature is a top class, highly productive editor. You seem to be trying to drive him out of the project. I'd call that disruptive. I'd call that hurting the project. Editing against consensus (and NPOV) is disruptive. Reverting edits like that isn't. We're here to write an encyclopaedia, not to build a better bureaucracy. Stop pretending it's the other way around. Guettarda 02:28, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
Me thinks something is rotten in the State of Denmark...CBM wouldn't happen to be from Copenhagen, would he?-- Filll 20:24, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
that seems wrong to me, however. Maybe I am not just understanding what is going on, but I am a bit suspicious. Sorry.-- Filll 21:24, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
I hesitate to comment on this since I am not involved in the original dispute. Nevertheless, what is wrong with you people? Carl is an admin for whom I hold a great deal of respect, and he has patiently and kindly tried to respond to your requests for explanation. All I see is a bunch of rude people piling it on. He graciously admitted that he is not perfect, and you all try to throw it back in his face. So you have a disagreement. Big deal. People disagree all the time, and most of the time, they manage to do it without all the sarcasm and taunting. I wouldn't even get involved except that everyday I check my watchlist and I see more and more people entering into the thread just to throw this crap around. Get over it and move on.
VectorPosse
20:50, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
I screencapped the latter image a long time ago (Dys silo0008.jpg). I also uploaded it a long time ago; I don't really remember much about what I uploaded it. I do know that I definitely didn't contact the developers about adding it to Wikipedia, and if I mistagged it, I apologize. If it needs to be changed to something else, go ahead. Perhaps I thought the "withpermission" tag meant that whoever screencapped it allowed it to be distributed? If I am in error, go ahead and change it to whatever it should be. ZenSaohu 21:25, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for cleaning up Wikipedia:Fair use review. What a miserable, thankless job. (Except for this message.) -- But| seriously| folks 21:37, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
Hi, Sorry I've been out of commission for the last week, I was away in France and the UK for almost a week. Just catching up on things. I'll be working on things tonight; I want to rearrange the pages and update them to make way for you.
I had a very interesting Wikimedia France meeting in Paris, and three things that may prove very useful:
I'll get in touch again later tonight. Once again, sorry for the absence. Walkerma 21:41, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
I can't see that the policy refers to location in the article in relation to "minimal" use. It is a good lead picture as being a strong modern image of a woman - most of the pictures, especially in the early part of the article, are "old master" works. Also the way you did it created white space in both the old and new locations. On the wider issue of the image, if you are concerned about it being used too many times, it might be better to upload other Kahlo images and use each once or twice in the various articles where a Kahlo image is to be expected. Johnbod 17:05, 25 October 2007 (UTC)
You agreed with the deletion of the modern proof of the incompleteness theorem. This is probably because you did not read it carefully. The proof is complete and correct. If you have any questions, I will be happy to answer them. Likebox 21:47, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
A computable function is the same as a computer program. Please do not make edits to important pages before discussing them. Likebox 21:55, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
If it's not too much of a bother could you email me a cc also? pierab@aol.com. Thanks, Bill. (I'm still bugged by this whole thing. Turing's original first circle-testing proof is so different from the Davis "halting problem" proof. It didn't "quine" its own operating system, it tested numbers one after another until it hit its own number (same thing). Because it had to create a diagonal number for every successfully "non-circular" number, it had to "execute" its own code, thus causing it to start over and thereby "circle" (contrary to premise ... Q.E.D.). I want to double-check and be sure that these guys aren't re-inventing the wheel. Bill Wvbailey 13:57, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
You commented on WP:AN last week concerning a proposed 0RR/1RR regime on the article Northern Cyprus, which is being disrupted by a SPA, User:3meandEr. I've posted a request for a block or community ban on this user at WP:AN/I#User:3meandEr and Northern Cyprus - your comments would be appreciated. -- ChrisO 11:21, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
I have registered de:User:CBM2. — Carl ( CBM · talk) 13:46, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
Hello CBM,
please send your real-name, your wikiname, your prefered login-name and the public part of your ssh-key to
. We plan to create your account soon then. --
DaB.
16:47, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
You claim that the CS definition of the problem is no good. It is referenced, it is accurate, and it is brief. It avoids the problem of defining the x,x business by quining, and it is not in any way original. I was hoping you could tell me what your complaints are. Likebox 19:50, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
BTW, the rewrite you gave is IMO not very satisfactory. It removed a complete proof and replaced with very vague language. Please discuss your changes. Likebox 20:05, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
(deindent) The fact that you have a PhD means that you think you know more. This is very annoying, because you clearly don't understand the computational proof yet. I can tell, because you keep editing it to be wrong or vague.
Actually, maybe you do understand it. I can't read your mind. Here's a test. Prove the following theorem: "There does not exist a computer program that can decide whether any other computer program runs in polynomial or exponential time on its input." You can't use Rice's theorem BTW.
The following text is copied from the talk page on GIT. It explains what I mean about Godel abandoning the recursion theory:
The following note in "Postscriptum", dated June 3, 1964, appears in Davis 1965:71-73. Here is where he utterly blows off recursion theory (Church 1936 and his own §9 General recursive functions) in favor of Turing 1936 and Post 1936:
A skeptic might think he was sick of mind, but he repeats his assertion in a differnt way to van Heijenoort two years later (after working for months with van H on a new and better translation of his 1931):
So yes, if you take the man at his word, he says the "proper" way to construct a formal system is with mechanical devices. Period. Bill Wvbailey 01:37, 15 October 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Likebox ( talk • contribs) 2007-11-06T00:40:26
Please reply to the message I left on my talk page. Thanks. :) -- Setanta 23:00, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
If you keep replacing a correct proof with a vague sketch, I will continue to war. I don't want to war, but your rewrites are not acceptable in any way, and the current text, due to me, is complete and correct.
I can't believe this. I gave Wikipedia the gift of a book proof of Godel's theorem, and instead of thank you, I get edit warring! Do you understand how galling that is? Please bring in some neutral parties. Likebox 06:35, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
I know it is discouraged, but I really believe that you are obfuscating clear and correct proofs for no reason. You have reverted the clear quine proof of halting to the slightly less clear f(i,i) proof three times, with no reason.
There is no reason not to have both proofs, as I had in my rewrite. I would prefer to come to an agreement too, but the two proofs are slightly different. They are only equivalent if you understand the fixed-point theorem, which is not a given for a reader of this page. I can't stomach the idea that the halting problem will only be proved for programs with an input. That's ridiculous! In this day and age. When the proof for a program with no input just requires a quine. Likebox 01:21, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
There is no style guideline, the project is basically a being driven by The Transhumanist. See a thread I've started at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Lists of basic topics#Overlap with portals and other concerns for a few of the concerns that have been raised. -- Quiddity 01:26, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for removing the image per editrequested request. On the same page you just removed an image, could you remove the image of Edward Brongersma aswell, per same rationale? (same licence, same issues). There has been no discussion to establish consensus over it, but the rationale and circumstance are identical. Martijn Hoekstra 16:38, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
I would prefer it if you would leave a comment on the talk page for a day or so; it's very painful to find out that something that seems uncontroversial actually is. — Carl ( CBM · talk) 16:40, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
Hi, I suppose I could have tried to "discuss" these changes with Sagbliss, but she's been banned from Wikipedia for harassment on talk pages and by e-mail and making legal threats. The article was protected to stop an edit war that she was at the heart of. To be honest, I don't really care that much to make further improvements to this article and was just following the guidelines set out by the edit protection banner. It's enough to leave it as it is at this point. 198.23.5.73 18:40, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
I'd be very happy to have an uninvolved person mediate this article, and I suspect many others would want the same. But nobody has yet created the Sandbox page you've suggested - do you know what you think should be in there? PR talk 15:04, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
Hi, could you possibly protect Margaret Sanger again? It's being vandalized by User 70.171.17.122. Thanks! MFNickster 19:25, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
I left another comment there about not disrupting the DRV. The reason I didn't archive the discussion myself is that some editors there are very firm about our social convention of not prematurely closing discussions. But the project as a whole is very professional and collegial, and I am confident they will refrain from any more "political" discussions. Mostly that was one disgruntled editor who has been advised not to continue by several people including me. I hope you will accept this as a compromise instead of continuing to archive the page, which will only lead to continued arguments from editors who feel discussions should be allowed to continue as long as they are not disruptive. — Carl ( CBM · talk) 16:16, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
Hi. I'm puzzled, and maybe you can correct my thinking: As a designer of a formal system, aren't I am free to define what is considered to be a "wff" (aka "proof" where the last "line of code" is the "theorem")? Given that, can't I specify that every wff contains one and only one HALT, this must occur at the end of the proof, and be the last line "executed". Now, I know that the "halting problem" is undecidable, so in general my wffs (aka proofs with last line HALT) are undecidable. Correct? (I used a similar device at Talk:Division by zero to demonstrate how the "proof" divide hangs up in an inescapable loop of infinitely repeated subtractions of divisor 0 from dividend 6, so it never reaches the HALT step or any other extension).
If this reasoning is correct, then trying to demonstrate "the undecidability of the consistency of a formal system" by use of the halting proof as a premise feels like begging the question. Plus the reasoning in above paragraph is so trivial, it must be flawed. What am I missing here? Thanks, Bill Wvbailey 17:43, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
I agree that Goedel's proof is better (more interesting, more convincing). Which is, I suppose, my point. I have a increasing concern that an attempt to assert the "Halting proof" as a premise, and then demonstrate "undecidability of consistency of a system" in a formal system that consists of an abstract machine, is so fraught with question-begging that such efforts should be discouraged. Plus it's a pedagogical cheat. The student doesn't learn anything. As you said: "Goedel's proof is hard." The student has to march through the details. I observed on Likebox's talk-page that CeilingCrash may be arriving at same kind of the trivial "proof" that I posted above. Bill Wvbailey 18:10, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
In the first paragraph you scored a direct hit on where I fouled up: the notion of a computation as, (as Gurevich stated the same notion in one of his papers, an evolution of), the "complete computational state". Yes, the computation-as-wff must include all the various "memory" (tape, registers, etc) involved in the computation. My original notion above was to just consider the "program" as the wff, not the "complete computational state" as the wff. Now I have to go away and think some more about proofs vs computations. What you wrote really helped. Thanks! Bill Wvbailey 22:53, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
Hi Carl - many thanks for posting my RfA at WT:WPM. I'm here on another mission however.
I believe it would be extremely useful to have a general purpose bot which keeps track of articles in a particular category. The types of category I have in mind are Wikipedia maintenance categories, rather than genuine article categories, but there may be some use for the latter. For maintenance, the key problem with categories is that they don't provide information about when an article was (most recently) added. Also, there are limitations on what one can do when listing the articles in a category.
So I would really like it if there were a bot for listing articles in categories with dates. A category could subscribe to this process much as talk pages subscribe to automatic archiving, by linking to a particular page or transcluding a particular template with a name like {{listify this}}. For each category X which links/transcludes to this, the bot would keep track of articles in the category on a regular basis (maybe once or twice a day), probably in a subpage of the form [[User:VeblenBot/Category/X]]. This subpage would contain a list of templates, one per article, of the form {{category X format|name = ArticleName|date = DateAdded}}, probably sorted by date.
This would be extremely useful, because the template {{category X format}} can be defined to format the information, and then the subpage [[User:VeblenBot/Category/X]] could be transcluded anywhere to provide a formatted list of articles in the category, together with the date when they were most recently added.
I am asking you, because it seems to me that this is the kind of activity that VeblenBot (i.e., your code) is good at. There is some extra programming required to keep track of the articles in the category and hence date them, and also I expect some care is needed to ensure the bot is not asked to listify really large categories. Would you be interested in developing something like this? Geometry guy 19:48, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
Hi Carl. The Template:Dominionism TfD, on which you commented, has been closed with no consensus (default to keep). Although the TfD debate touched on several issues regarding the form the infobox should now take, much seems unresolved. I invite you to participate in further discussion on this topic. Thank you. -- BlueMoonlet ( t/ c) 05:23, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
Hi, glad to see that the Toolserver account went through nicely. I'll be around this weekend, if you are starting tests with the new selection bot. I see that G-Guy has also been recruiting your help (above), and that's another worthy cause, so if you're being kept too busy I understand. Let me know what you'd like me to do to help. Thanks, Walkerma 06:18, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
I.M.H.O. this article is abysmal. Would you or someone you know be willing to look at it and render an opinion? On the talk page you will see where I typed in Richard's actual letter that appears in van Heijenoort. Tonight some poor soul tried to type in a "warning" (now reverted) that the article doesn't present the actual paradox (it's just a few words, but there may be copyright issues...), never mind they were absolutely correct -- the paradox is nowhere to be found. If necessary I'll locate the damn thing in the original and translate it myself so there isn't a copyright issue. The paradox deserves better than this article. Thanks, Bill Wvbailey 01:03, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
---
Is it just me, or is the Hilbert-style deduction system incomprehensible? I tagged it on the talk page. I came to the article with the honest intent of trying to figure out why a "computation" and a "proof" are different notions. The article did not help, to say the least. (I am not convinced they are different, at this point. There's also a confusion about "algebras" as symbol-manipulation schemes vs "evaluations of formulas" in computations). It's strange, but Suppes 1957 (Dover Introduction to Logic just sort of jumps into the notion of "proof" without a definition, as if it is just obvious. Tarski 1945, 1961 (Dover 1999) Introduction to Logic is doing much better, cf his chapter VI p. 117 "On the Deductive Method". It would seem that "proof" (at least this axiomatic type), is identical to a "deductive method".
I found something interesting about abstract computational machines: to cause the state transition, their "code" (TABLEs of instructions) use (the equivalent of) the "CASE operator" (connective) "IF (c=criterion) THEN step "b") AND IF NOT-(c=criterion) THEN step "a")". This is clearly deductive in nature. Ergo at least in this regard a "computation" (evolution of the state) is a deduction, and if "proof" = "deduction" then "computation" = "proof".
Thoughts? Thanks, Bill Wvbailey 16:51, 11 November 2007 (UTC)
I noticed you edited the Fellowship of Friends article in the past. There is an issue with Conflict of Interest (COI) at the moment and the article has been stubbed and protected and I thought that it would be nice if you could voice your opinion on the Talk page. If you are too busy, that's OK. Thank you in advance. Love-in-ark 00:12, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
There is a process for createing new policy. It is slow inefficent and the odds of anything passing it are effectively zilch. From my POV that means it works beautifully. Geni 22:34, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for taking care of most of the pages at User:ST47/OCT, including some of the more complex ones (e.g. hist-merging Category talk:Comic book characters created from television). Cheers, Black Falcon ( Talk) 22:52, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
Hi Carl, thanks for the updated references. I've started to feed the database. There are some 6.000 reference tags, I guess 5.000 of which are effectively different. So it will take a while to do this. I'll get back to the Wikiproject when this is done. Regards, Jakob.scholbach 16:53, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
The automation of peer review looks like it will work well: could you ask the lovely VeblenBot to update the /C/Requests for peer review subpage daily? Dr Kiernan has been fixing it in the meanwhile, but I have advised him that edits will be overwritten once the automation is active. Geometry guy 19:04, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Hello Carl, thanks for teaching me a few things about Wikipedia. I really appreciate it.
I know next to nothing about typed or higher-order logic, and so I am somewhat puzzled by the second sentence in structure (mathematical logic). I thought that the concept of a structure, being semantic, was always the same. But now your formulation makes me suspect that some people consider more general structures in which there might be, for example, a symbol for a subset of the powerset of the universe. Is this what you meant? Or should it be "but structures are also important for typed and higher-order languages"? -- Hans Adler 00:28, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
As you unprotected Nicolaus Copernicus [13], I expect you to watch that article, and take part in reverting vandalism, too. -- Matthead discuß! O 02:27, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
The question is one of form vs. substance. To use your example, in constructing free groups, we begin with the semigroup of forms and then mod out by an equivalence relation to obtain the substance -- a free group on n generators. If you view a polynomial as a form, then you are correct, but if we mod out by an equivalence relation, then my view is correct: (x squared plus 1) squared divided by (x squared plus one) IS in the ring of polynomials.
Rick Norwood 13:14, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
Dear CBM,
Thank You very much for Your attention to Hilbert-style deduction system. I have been long working on a complete rewrite. The main ideas I could collect till now are:
My work from a complete rewrite can be seen in a subpage User:Physis/Hilbert-style deduction system. It is still incomplete (in fact, I wanted to work on it one more week before mentioning it at all), but the main ideas are beginning already taking shape. I am not sure if people will like it, that's why I only wrote it on a subpage, so that it can be discussed separately from the existing article. I am interested in any opinions.
Best wishes,
Physis 16:00, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for letting me know. For the record, I disregarded the speedy tag placed by the IP and made my own judgment based on my knowledge of policy and the FUR discussion. I concur with RG2 that since this is not an iconic image, and it is possible to find free images of Obama, there is no fair use case. Additionally, the requirement for using a news agency photo under WP:NPC is that the image itself is the subject of critical commentary. In the case of Obama, the image is not discussed, only the event it depicts. There is a subtle but crucial difference. I maintain that the image should be deleted. I will not re-delete it, but I would appreciate your reconsidering your action. -- Spike Wilbury ♫ talk 22:33, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the input on that image - didn't think that the portion of the "arrow" would affect copyright issues (although it does make an ugly pic!) I've added fair use & took it out of review. Thanks! SkierRMH 01:49, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
Keep your comments on my talk page to the essential minimum. Likebox 01:51, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
Dear Carl,
Thank You for Your reply, and Your work. I have now updated the image, replaced "axiom schemata" to "axiom schemes", as You suggested. I can send the native source of the image,so that You can easily update or develop any time.
Thank You also for Your explanation: what the motivation is for avoiding the style natural deduction follows. It is easier to prove metatheorems this way -- I have not thought of that yet. In fact, I am very inexperienced in mathematical logic (I work in functional programming, using Haskell), thank You for explaining motivations behind the styles, and also for rewriting the article.
I have learned three approaches to Hibert-style calculus. I have written them to the talk page of the article.
Best wishes
Physis 14:01, 15 November 2007 (UTC)
Hello Carl, no, I wasn't going to rename the article (yet), although it might make sense to rename it to structures (model theory), because that could be easier for universal algebra people to identify with. What happened was that I started a new version in my user space before reading somewhere that we are not supposed to do this. Now I know one reason why it's not a good idea: I copied the new text into the article, did some research because I wanted the page with my draft deleted, and — requested deletion of Structure (mathematical logic) instead of User:Hans_Adler/Model_theory_and_universal_algebra/Structure! Fortunately I realized immediately what I had done. Sorry, too many tabs open, and it was already past midnight... -- Hans Adler 00:59, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
Hi. I see you deleted this a few months ago as CSD criteria: "housekeeping". However, "housekeeping" is meant for uncontroversial cleanup like page moves, redirects, etc. This would mean that that the poem still exists, otherwise I don't see how it is housekeeping. Is the poem still existing somewhere, or has it been completely deleted? If it's the former, where is it? If it's the latter, why would it be housekeeping? I'll try to dig deeper using Special:Search, and perhaps come back here later. I haven't checked if there are discussions about this, so I'll go check. Thanks. ~ A H 1( T C U) 01:00, 16 November 2007 (UTC)
Can I direct your attention to WT:3RR? The exception for user space has in fact been in the three revert rule policy since 14 June 2005, and is not a new addition. Sam Blacketer ( talk) 22:13, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
Assuming a likely copyvio, you have today blanked the three Swedish iDAG newspaper articles from Talk:Alternative theories of the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103/Archive 2. These articles were written by Swedish journalist Jan-Olof Bengtsson who has given permission to former British diplomat Patrick Haseldine to use them in any way he chooses (see Patrick Haseldine#Incriminating South Africa):
I think you will agree that this is not therefore a copyvio. I should be grateful if you would reinsert the iDAG articles at /Archive 2, and undo your edit to the Alternative theories of the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 article. Thanks. Phase4 ( talk) 13:54, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
I noticed you posted a note to the talk page above and removed my last warning in the process. An accident? Just wondering; it looked like one. Tuvok T @ lk/ Improve me] 21:09, 20 November 2007 (UTC)
Hello Carl,
while removing obvious miscategorisations in the model theory category, I ran into this vanity page: consequence operator. If you have the time it would be great if you could have a look at the associated talk page and advise me how to proceed. Thanks, Hans Adler ( talk) 12:50, 23 November 2007 (UTC) (PS: I just got a little shock, because the rest of your talk page was archived away while I was writing this.)
I just became aware that it looks as if I was asking for immediate deleting. But for some reason I think that might not be the best solution. -- Hans Adler ( talk) 13:56, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
Hi CBM I wanted to let you know that Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/VeblenBot 5 has been approved. Please visit the above link for more information. Thanks! BAGBot ( talk) 23:07, 27 November 2007 (UTC)
I'm not going to do this myself. I'm not going to put the DYK template on my own talk page. Duncan Hunter's presidential campaign was featured on the main page as was Straw polls for the Republican nomination. This is the most ridiculous thing I have seen and if this censorship should be done then somebody should put back up the banner I had recently put up at the suggestions page.-- S TX 02:08, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
Please don't harrass me again. - BillCJ ( talk) 04:11, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
UNAUTHORIZED PHOTO - DO NOT USE PHOTO OF THE HOTEL DES ARTS NAMED "HOTEL.JPG" SINCE THE ARTICLE OF THE OWNER OF THIS PHOTO HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM WIKIPEDIA. THE OWNER WITHDRAW ALL HIS COLABORATION TO WIKIPEDIA AND SENT A COPYRIGHT VIOLATION TO ATTORNEY OFFICE. Greatartists210 ( talk) 15:51, 28 November 2007 (UTC)
Do you know whether it is possible to check externally, whether a WP article with a given title exists? Thanks, Jakob.scholbach 18:24, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
Someone pointed out to me, and I noticed it once myself, that VeblenBot occasionally blanks the list of articles in a category: an example is here. I think this is a fairly minor issue, as VeblenBot soon restores the data in the correct order: I would guess it is a server unavailability problem. However, it would be better if VeblenBot retained the previous data rather than blank the category.
This brings me on to a less minor request. It would be nice if the category listing was fairly robust to articles being removed from a category (e.g., by accident) and then re-added again shortly thereafter (e.g. within a day). I can appreciate that such robustness requires some programming work, as it involves keeping track of the category contents by date, and not relying entirely on the date information from the servers. Let me know if you have the time or the interest in developing something along these lines and I will elaborate if necessary. Geometry guy 00:07, 4 December 2007 (UTC)
Dear Carl, I've belatedly done as you've asked and set up a sandbox page for the proposed consensus edit at Battle of Jenin. The request for a protected is located here. The description of the edit and the supporting comments are at Talk:Battle of Jenin/Sandbox. I didn't seem feasible to ask everybody to approve the edit again, so I pasted in the approval statements now that the last one was received. Please let me know (at my Talk) if you have any questions about this request or are able to fulfill it. Thanks. HG | Talk 00:15, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
I'm thinking of mentioning this in the Gödel incompleteness theorems article, next to the bit about Chaitin:
C. Calude and H. Jürgensen, Is complexity a source of incompleteness?
but I wanted to get your opinion first. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.62.4.229 ( talk) 13:25, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
I knew I was at 3, so I was going to leave it alone. But thank you for the warning (it was appreciated), SirFozzie ( talk) 20:54, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
I agree completely with the removal of the phil tag from some of the logic topics. There is a lot more of that sort of thing out there. I am personally very reluctant to add maths ratings to articles because they have expressed a reluctance to tag everything. I thought element (mathematics) was particularly important to have included.
At some point I think I will make a list for proposed changes.
Be well, Pontiff Greg Bard ( talk) 05:49, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
"Claiming that my block is bad, or that I a member of some 'bad police', without contacting me, seems misguided." <-- Maybe we need a numerical scale. Is this how you would construct the measuring scale: blocking an editor as part of a gang effort to delete someone's question = +10 on the scale, helping Wikipedia; JWSchmidt discussing a bad block = -10, misguided? For me, the scale would be reversed. 'bad police' <-- I was discussing real world police, but the analogy to administrators is clear. Or rather, I thought it would be clear to Ian. -- JWSchmidt ( talk) 18:17, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
I haven't been keeping that close of an eye on the dispute since protecting the article, to be honest; if you think that suggestions can be implemented without dissolving into another edit war, you are more than welcome to unprotect the page. :) Glass Cobra 02:51, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
I generally don't put replies in two places but I wanted to inform you I made some additional comments regarding our previous discussion. Sorry to clutter your page. CelticGreen ( talk) 05:17, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
Just got the book an hour ago: sure wish I'd gotten it 2 yrs ago. But am confused, need help. Is Rogers using "convergent function" (p. xvi) in the sense of calculus, as in "an infinite sum that comes closer and closer to", or "in the limit"? How about "divergent"? In the engineering world this means the number (more likely: computational sequence) "explodes", i.e. goes to infinity, as opposed to e.g. converging toward but then oscillating around an integer value. E.g. a failed computation outputting: 12, 11, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 8, 6, 8, etc seems to have converged toward 7 but then gets stuck in a "loop" -- is that "divergent" computation? Kleene 1952 uses "convergence" in the calculus sense but doesn't use "divergence" at all. Yikes. Bill Wvbailey ( talk) 20:54, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
Hi there. I think your response here could have been a bit more helpful. The anon had to ask somebody for help in editing, since they couldn't without an account. Remember that we want to encourage new users and anonymous editors; I worry that your reply might possibly have been read as a brush off, even if you didn't mean it that way. You also might have looked at whether the page deserved to stay protected—it had been that way for over a month, for a reason that didn't make any sense to me, so I unprotected it. -- SCZenz ( talk) 20:55, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
Hi Carl: I've made the proposal at WT:PR#Automation of this page now. Thanks for all your support! Geometry guy 21:36, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
This was so far beyond inappropriate that I don't know where to begin. Cheers, Wily D 22:08, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
I'm confused about a comment you left on my user talk page. You said: Also, please fill in the class, field, and priority parameters when you place the template. There is no benefit to the template except to convey rating information, which is why it's called maths rating.
I thought that placing the template was the only way to include articles in WikiProject Mathematics, which does more than just rate articles. I sometimes left the parameters empty because I didn't know what to put. In such cases I thought it was better to place the template anyway just to include the article in the project. That way others in the math community would have a better chance of seeing it and potentially add the missing information. Timhoooey ( talk) 22:50, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
All right, thanks for telling me. Every time one creates a new article, does someone have to manually add it to the list? Temperal talk and matrix? 23:49, 11 December 2007 (UTC)
Multi-front discussions are counter-productive. Do you want to take this back to the RFC? -- TheOther Bob 20:04, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
Hello, CBM! I responded to your post on my talk page. Regards.-- 12 Noon 20:45, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
Because of your participation in discussions relating to the "PSTS" model in the No original research article, I am notifying you that a request for arbitration has been opened here. I invite you to provide a statement encouraging the Arbcom to review this matter, so that we can settle it once and for all. COGDEN 23:50, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
Hi, you wrote in Absoluteness (mathematical logic) that Shoenfield's absolutness theorem is about Sigma-2 formulas. I think this is not correct -- for example, the continuum hypothesis is Sigma-2 (unless I miscounted quantifiers).
I think we should say that Shoenfield really talks about formulas in descriptive set set theory; using countable well-founded models this can be translated to formulas of set theory.
Aleph4 ( talk) 11:37, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
I don't know if you're watching it or just checking from the edit protected category but I answered here. It was all set yesterday, sorry for the extra edit request. Lawrence Cohen 23:06, 13 December 2007 (UTC)
Hmmm, not sure why you left it on my page, but Im not Jeeny. But it appears that she's retired anyhow. - Rjd0060 ( talk) 06:13, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
Hi! Seems like you removed the protection template from Canada and wrote on the talk page that you removed the protection, but forgot to actually do it. Or is there another reason that the page remains fully protected? Cheers! JdeJ ( talk) 13:49, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
Template:Current fiction has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. The log page is here. -- Pixelface ( talk) 04:53, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
I gave VeblenBot a test by readding a peer review request that was archived more than 48 hours ago. It tripped up by setting the date to the beginning of time. I also tested removing a current request from the category. I've now put it back, so we'll see what happens on the next update. Geometry guy 19:19, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
if ( $diff <= $Cutoffs{$cat} )
will be successful, because $diff
will be 0. But for articles that have never been seen before, all we can do is use the timestamp that the database currently reports, and this will happen, because higher up the line $Added{$key} = $Timestamps{$key};
will execute. This assumes that LastSeen
and Added
are either both defined or both undefined for a particular key, but I believe this is correct, because the first time an article is seen in the category both will be filled in, and after that they will both always be defined. — Carl (
CBM ·
talk)
21:15, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
Something interesting here. I bought into the "Give One, Get One" program for the "One Laptop per Child" and got one of the first laptops hot off the press. The programmers have equipped the machine with a "Calculate" function that includes a little "Boolean" evaluator. When I played with it I ran into some strange stuff. So I wrote:
Boolean operations: request NOT:
(3) I have some suggestions for the activity's functionality, but am not sure they should be here. I will enter them here anyway. The philosophy behind this is to provide the kids with the same symbolism and functionality that they will find on wikipedia.
(3a) The symbol | (stroke): Why use the "Sheffer stroke" for OR? this symbol was classically used for NAND (NOT AND). Why not use V for "von", the more classical symbol? I've never seen | used for OR.
(3b) Logical NOT: I was rather ... stunned shall we say ... to see XOR rather than NOT (i.e. ~ or "bent bar" 2-shift-alt, or whatever). XOR would be an okay addition but not without NOT; NOT is virtually mandatory. I am quite aware that the three functions chosen (AND, OR, XOR) are sufficient, but hey, so is NAND (stroke) by itself or NOR by itself or implication by itself -- and using them by themselves is ugly.
(3c) What happens when we plug in numbers not { 0, 1 }? The numerical results such as 3&4 => 4, and 3|4 => 3 are rather peculiar; they seem reversed (from a Venn-diagram point-of-view). For example, as "4" contains "3" we would expect that 3|4 might be "4". I will pursue this with my wikipedia cohorts to get their opinions. Usually Boolean functions have to do with predicates in particular "equality" that evaluate to { TRUE, FALSE } or values { 1, 0 }, e.g. =AND(3,4) yields TRUE in Excel.
Carl, do you have any opinions about what I wrote above? Lemme know, thanks. Bill Wvbailey ( talk) 19:39, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
A correspondent at the OLPC wiki agrees with you, i.e. "C/C++, java, and Python" all use the | for "OR", apparently. He agrees with us about the strange output with non- { 1, 0 } values (also apparently {TRUE, FALSE} end up as variable names rather than as "values"). The corresponent describes the simple algorithm that "Python" uses to evaluate non-1, 0 numeric functions, etc. If you're curious, see more at http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Talk:Calculate. I'll post your response there. Thanks, Bill —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wvbailey ( talk • contribs) 15:10, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
I've now implemented the peer review automation, so there will surely be teething problems. First one: the date of the latest two entries is in the future! Let me know if you need further details. Geometry guy 22:15, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
I went through the list again, and there are alas still four more to fix (two cases of vandalism, one page move, and one of your tests)! They are
The two cases of vandalism would have been fixed by the caching, which is good news for the future. Geometry guy 11:57, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
Someone, perhaps you, recently created an account at the WikBack. If the account was created by an imposter, please let me know as soon as possible so that it can be disabled. Otherwise, welcome! The Uninvited Co., Inc. 19:52, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
There's actually been a lot of discussion on the talk page. Dreadstar † 04:20, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
I am sorry, but if you heard some of the nasty comments he made towards me, you would be shocked. Sacharin ( talk) 21:05, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
Hi,
That discussion is exactly what is ongoing at WP:BN. For Wikipedians who've been around a long time, a few reversions (always under the limit of 3RR) are often a part of these "negotiations". In the old days, WP:BOLD was much more often used to justify the approach of "discuss as you change". 3RR is the absolute universal cap on this, of course; but, under that limit, reversions are quite natural... especially for non-mainspace pages, where no real encyclopedic content is at stake. In any case, this underlying issue will be resolved shortly by the b'crats. Thanks for your input. Best wishes, Xoloz ( talk) 21:14, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
Hey there! I noticed VeblenBot creates a nice summary page of the peer reviews at User:VeblenBot/C/Requests for peer review. Do you think the same can be done for WP:FAC and WP:FAR? A similar format would be fine ([[Date (which links to FAC/FAR subpage)]] : [[Article]] ) Cheers, (and thanks in advance if this is doable) Budding Journalist 23:12, 30 December 2007 (UTC)
User:Spacefarer is hacking/vandalising the page to bits with no use of the discussion page. Suggesting revert to page before his chooping occurred and freezing it. Apparently there is an LE convention (Global Transformation 2020) very soon, hence the rapid edits. -- Pax Arcane 16:50, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
I think removing the image from the article on Godel's Incompleteness Theorem is -- well, forgive me -- silly. It's a Wikipedia article, not a formal mathematics paper. -- KSnortum ( talk) 22:15, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
A contributor has suggested that User:VeblenBot update User:VeblenBot/PERtable only when the contents of the table need to change, to avoid making unnecessary edits. The discussion may be found at Wikipedia talk:Bot policy#Frivolous bot edits – Gurch 13:13, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
VeblenBot hasn't updated WP:PERTABLE for almost a week. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 11:31, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
Are you actually tagging pages this fast? I mean if so, great, but something seems wrong; youve tagged thousands of pages today and made like 20 edits. -- CastAStone //₵₳$↑₳ ₴₮ʘ№€ 03:41, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi, I am an admin on it:wiki. I received a message from User:Sandrobt, who was blocked for one day: despite its name (!) he is not a bot, he is a user of it:wiki interested in algebra and he was putting some italian interwikis here. :-P Cheers, Ylebru ( talk) 12:11, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
Thanks!-- Sandrobt ( talk) 00:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
I was pleased to see VeblenBot making inroads into FA and hope this idea will be more widely used.
Several further applications suggest themselves.
My current thoughts are to pursue 2, then apply this experience to 1, while (all the time) making the case for (and developing) 3. However, I need to know your view on these applications (whether you are happy with handling growing numbers of archive categories, and potentially large numbers of GAN/GA categories) and also if you have any further ideas. Geometry guy 00:47, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
I agree with the philosophy, although this is all volunteer work, and getting the software designed is not always straightforward! In the GAR case, the current system just makes too much work for editors: I hate archiving GARs, because it involves cutting and pasting and making loads of edits, and I am not alone! So could you ask VeblenBot to listify Category:GAR (newest item first as usual) and Category:GAR/34 (oldest item first per archiving conventions)? They are empty at the moment, but I will fill them, and implement a much easier GAR process over the weekend. Geometry guy 19:08, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
PS. Thanks for the wikilinking tip, which caused me problems in my early days here, but in this case I didn't use it because the categories didn't exist, and I hadn't decided on the names.
I've set up the subpages and the new system at GAR, so the listing of Category:GAR would now be very welcome. Geometry guy 19:24, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
If you get a chance sometime, I wonder if you could look at the end of the section about the axiom of choice, particularly the bit I added about BT following from ZF plus the Hahn-Banach theorem. Trovatore makes a good point on the talk page that the exposition there is possibly misleading, but it looks like neither one of us figured out the right way to rephrase it. I also wonder whether the statement of the set theory needed for the Hahn-Banach theorem could be made a little sharper. Does the Brown-Simpson result about WKL0 and Hahn-Banach have any applicability, given that ZF is already involved? Thanks. 75.62.4.229 ( talk) 11:12, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
Thank you! But named references don't help because I can't change page numbers to correspond with the text in different places. See references 8a and 8b in George Bernard Shaw. 8b should mention only page 515. The same volume has other citations I should use that are on other pages. Wugo ( talk) 03:44, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
Agreed, page numbers are important. I may have solved the problem by associating different topics with their appropriate page numbers within the body of the reference. Please look at reference 8 in George Bernard Shaw and tell me what you think. If this trick is acceptable I plan to add several other topics with their pages to the existing pair. Wugo ( talk) 17:43, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for your note. Ironically, I more often get criticism for declining deletions; it is pretty thankless work. So, I appreciated your follow-up comment.-- Kubigula ( talk) 15:33, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
No hard feelings - you are a gentleman :).-- Kubigula ( talk) 03:10, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
I noticed the bot hasn't been working in the last day. Should we begin adding the peer review manually, or just wait until the bot is up again? Cheers! -- ReyBrujo ( talk) 00:25, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
Hello CBM. I saw your note over at WT:WPM that you are among the administrators who will consider granting rollback permission. I'm interested in trying this out, though I don't like to make changes with no edit summary, so I hope there is still a way to leave one. EdJohnston ( talk) 22:14, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi there. In case you didn't know, when you add content to
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SineBot (
talk)
02:42, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
I moved our discussion to WT:1.0/I, as I think more people would be interested in commenting. Oleg Alexandrov ( talk) 06:14, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi, if you want a bigger, representative smorgasbord of projects to work from, take a look at User:Walkerma/Sandbox2. This will total about 100k articles total; if you want to keep the numbers down, miss off the biographical ones in the last section. Thanks! Walkerma ( talk) 08:31, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
Carl, I agree with your assessment of my position. I do object to arbitrary and unnecessary changes to the policy pages at WP. While the strength of WP is the dynamic aspects of the articles, constant tinkering with the policies is counterproductive to the “freedom” of the project. We need a simple but stable rule set which is easy for our writer contributors to follow. We seem to have evolved a wiki-bureaucrat-class which contributes little to the content of the project, but lives and thrives for incessant debating of policy nuances. There are two three things which I seek: (1) fewer rules, (2) clearer rules, and (3) stable rules. I’d be really interested in seeing why our perceptions might differ on this topic. Cheers! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kevin Murray ( talk • contribs) 15:47, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Carl, I think we have a lot of concerns and perceptions in common. I do realize that absolute stability is neither possible not desirable. To be dynamic, the rule sets need to be dynamic to a limited extent. If there is no stability then there is anarchy, which is more desirable in an emerging project, but less desirable as we mature.
I most certainly agree that the ways that policies and guidelines emerge needs fine-tuning. My interest is not in the administration of WP, but I became involved where poor rules and poor or biased assessments of rules were causing poor choices at AfD. Originally, I became involved because "I don’t like it" AfD's were decimating many new entries in the subject of sailing; so I became involved in AfD, and then trying to simplify the notability rules so that they were understandable and consistent (with some success).
Getting involved in notability lead to trying to stabilize the guidance around the introduction of proposals, since there is a constant pressure to expand the permutations of notability to the point of confusion and contradiction. With the best of intentions people are throwing band aids at problems, but adding to morass, without considering deeper consequences. I frequently use the analogy of the tragedy of the commons, where the sum of many “best solutions” on a micro perspective can collectively cause more harm than good. Enough of my rambling. -- Kevin Murray ( talk) 17:18, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Carl, I realize that we don't agree on how the editing of policy pages should be handled, but I do very much appreciate your very fair and well thought out comments today. Talk to you soon. -- Kevin Murray ( talk) 05:45, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi, I was wondering if you would be available some time over the weekend to chat on IRC about the testing of the selection bot. Was my list helpful? Cheers, Walkerma ( talk) 22:40, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Avoid instruction creep ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs) has recently been marked as a guideline. This is an automated notice of the change. -- VeblenBot ( talk) 17:44, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
Hello CBM. Thanks for your efforts in getting the LO awards section of the actor infoboxes to work. Unfortunately they aren't quite fixed yet. Please take a look at this page [17] and you will see what I am talking about when I made this post here [18]. Anything that you can do to get these fixed will be appreciated and thanks for your time. MarnetteD | Talk 22:52, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
I am very grateful for you right now. I was just referring to substitution instance in a discussion with Arthur at Talk:Formal system, when I noticed your changes. You have expanded the article without destroying anything. I have no argument for anything you have done at all. You added information, and I learned something new about the concept as a result. That's what I want out of wp. Pontiff Greg Bard ( talk) 00:30, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
It's been a couple days, but you haven't responded to my last post over there, so I thought I would come see if you had a chance to think about it. I see your point that it might be possible to extend the PROD system. My concerns is that nobody is actually spearheading a campaign to do that, and it isn't clear that it would get consensus in the end (there are comments on WT:PROD against extending prod to templates). Implementing T3, even temporarily until PROD is changed, would help free up some resources from TfD and is unlikely to cause bad deletions. Do you have objections to T3 apart from wishing to extend PROD to cover it? — Carl ( CBM · talk) 13:15, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi Carl - as you probably saw, the peer review page broke again today for being too large. I've replaced transclusion by listing for now. You suggested only doing this for articles where the peer review was long. Now, I wonder, can this be automated? For example, can VeblenBot use the toolserver to obtain lengths of articles? If so, then it could get the length of each article in a category and add it to the template as an extra parameter. At the moment this would do the job nicely for Category:GAR, where the articles are actually the reviews, but I'm planning to make the same change at WP:PR anyway, to make archiving easier. What do you think? Geometry guy 19:48, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Assessment ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs) has recently been marked as a policy. This is an automated notice of the change. -- VeblenBot ( talk) 18:47, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia:User page ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs) is no longer marked as a guideline. It was previously marked as a guideline. This is an automated notice of the change. -- VeblenBot ( talk) 18:47, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi Carl, can you, please, semiprotect Geometry again? A quick look at edit history shows that pretty much all edits past January 1 were either vandalism or reverts. Thanks, Arcfrk ( talk) 22:44, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
I saw that you moved the peer review to the archive because of its length, but it is not truly archived because it is still active and the current page still exists. I'm not ready to archive it fully yet, but when I am, how will I go about doing that? The archive has already been created, so I cannot move the page as the directions say, can I? What would you suggest? María ( habla con migo) 15:41, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
I liked your rephrase of WP:LEAD. Geometry guy 18:35, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia:User page ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs) has recently been marked as a guideline. This is an automated notice of the change. -- VeblenBot ( talk) 18:50, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
A couple of suggestions (just passing by):
If these two suggestions are combined, it would probably not be necessary to keep a cache of changes reported by the bot, nor would it be necessary to vary the bot output depending on the situation. Geometry guy 20:08, 21 January 2008 (UTC) PS. Please feel free to cross-post to the bot request page if this suggestion is helpful.
![]() |
The Half Barnstar | |
I wanted to present "The Right Half of the Half Barnstar" to say many thanks for working with Jeanenawhitney to fix the actor infobox anomoly that I discovered. You both put in time and effort to fix a small problem that may not have affected many pages, thus, I doubly appreciate your efforts. MarnetteD | Talk 22:50, 21 January 2008 (UTC) |
You are, of course, correct. To the best of my knowledge, we haven't executed that right to purge since 2002. There has since been a tacit promise not to do so without good reason and a fair amount of notice. But if the developers needed to purge the deleted history to keep the project up and running, they would absolutely do so.
Until they do so, though, the point that deleting a page doesn't affect the costs to the project remains. Deleting a page doesn't free up any server space or "clean up" anything. I'm really trying to teach people that there are many good reasons to delete a page but "cleaning up the database" is not one of them. Thanks for your comment. Rossami (talk) 15:59, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Hey Carl. I've replied on my talk page. Neıl ☎ 17:55, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi Carl,
an anon has added to computable function the claim that the collection of all computable functions is denoted by "C". I've never heard of this, have you? -- Trovatore ( talk) 21:25, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
After a recent edit of yours, the article currently says that any boolean algebra is isomorphic to the powerset algebra of the set of ultrafilters. Unless I'm thoroughly confused about something (and it's always a possibility that I'm wrong, confused or completely insane) shouldn't it say that X isomorphic to the algebra of clopen subsets of the space of ultrafilters, where the space of ultrafilters are equipped with the hull-kernel topology?-- CSTAR ( talk) 03:21, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
Please could I draw your attention to the unblock request here. Chelsea Tory ( talk) 16:39, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for fixing this. I should have thought of the autoblock but stupidly didn't. SlimVirgin (talk) (contribs) 21:37, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Requests for checkusership ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs) has recently been edited to mark it as a policy. This is an automated notice of the change. -- VeblenBot ( talk) 18:50, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia:WikiProject Universities/Article guidelines ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs) has recently been edited to mark it as a guideline. This is an automated notice of the change. -- VeblenBot ( talk) 18:50, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi Carl, could you also add Category:GAR/35 to the listing list. Geometry guy 21:03, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for the question. I appreciate your comments on my talk page. I also feel that I've improved the encyclopedia in some way, but others are welcome to disagree. That is a good quality of Wikipedia. Again, thank you. - Rjd0060 ( talk) 02:45, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi Carl - I've set a couple of plans in motion to improve the PR page further:
The first of these involves assigning a WP1.0 topic (there are 10 of them) to each peer review to make it easier for reviewers to find articles. The second involves placing an article's peer review on an archive page from the very beginning so that the page never needs to be moved: I did this with GAR, and it is much easier to use than the PR system.
The first plan only requires VeblenBot to list 10 more categories, one for each topic.
In principle, the second plan requires no change to VeblenBot. However, in practice there are transitional issues, because in the new system, the Wikipedia/Peer review/ARTICLE NAME/archiveN pages will be in the category, and the current talk pages would be taken out of the category. This can of course be done preserving chronological order, but not preserving dates. I'm thinking about several different ways that this could be done, and wondering which would be the most smooth. Do you have any suggestions? Geometry guy 20:37, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Actually, I don't think I will depopulate the category: instead I will put the peer review subpages in a new category called Category:General peer reviews. If VeblenBot doesn't mind watching empty cats for a short while, could you add this to the list (namespace 4), and also
These are the GA/WP1.0 topics, except that I've folded maths in with sciences, because math peer reviews almost never happen. Finally, I'm going to need Category:February 2008 peer reviews soon, so could you add that one too? Thanks, Geometry guy 19:31, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
PS. I used {{ GA/Topic}} to generate the correct names. Geometry guy 19:36, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
I followed up to your response on Template talk:NavigationBox athletic conference. Take a look see if that makes more sense. Thanks. - Gwguffey ( talk) 20:31, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
There is a new suggestion at MediaWiki talk:Newarticletext. If this is acceptable I have the full message text ready to provide for installation. Sbowers3 ( talk) 23:11, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
Zeroth_order_logic seems to be a typical Jon Awbrey article. Apart from the usual edit wars nobody else seems to have edited there. I would expect that the word is notable enough to mention it in propositional logic, but probably not enough so to replace this article by a real one. Would it be a good idea to prod it? -- Hans Adler ( talk) 00:27, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
VeblenBot appears to have fallen behind on the PR cat, which is quite close to the template limit now, so I have archived a lot this evening. Incidentally, I don't think being 20K within the limit is enough warning: after the current archiving effort settles, could you up it to say 1-200K? Geometry guy 23:01, 28 January 2008 (UTC) PS. Now that the new preprocessor is in place, can you estimate the timescale on the new parser function? This would help a lot at PR. Geometry guy 23:03, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
I've reinstated the editprotected tag on Infobox Officeholder as only one person on the page objected, and that was only because they incorrectly thought it removed the Successor field from all current officeholders. Had they read the details of the edit they would have seen it doesn't. I don't know why you didn't spot this; if you have an objection to the edit you should just state it. -- Hera1187 ( talk) 07:00, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
If there's a reliable source to be found, that sounds fine. -- Bellwether B C 04:29, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
You wrote, "If you read the archives, you'll find that I've actually supported (and even argued in favor of) edits to the policy that defied my personal preferences, purely for the sake of compromise and consensus-building. For this reason, some of my reversions were actually from my preferred version, not to it."
If these reversions are towards a version that you think more likely to find agreement among everyone, that they are certainly valid. If, however, you are reverting solely for the sake of stability, I'd like to convince you to work towards a compromise version instead. There's no rush in getting the wording correct, and if the page is less than optimal for a few hours we would never allow someone to use that to wikilawyer an excuse for bad behavior. — Carl ( CBM · talk) 17:53, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Be nice ( | talk | history | links | watch | logs) has recently been edited to mark it as a guideline. This is an automated notice of the change. -- VeblenBot ( talk) 18:52, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
No edit bickering, just aiming for the compromise. Only one problem, the template that was being searched was cleanup-rewrite.
... there should be an easy-to-find guide for these. As an administrator, btw, could you redirect the currently empty Template:Crap to cleanup-rewrite?
Signing sure is annoying. 85.156.93.198 ( talk) 00:22, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
I've been tracking the old peer review category at the new Category:General peer reviews, and am almost ready to make the switchover, but there appears to be a small glitch, as you can see from the last two or three diffs: VeblenBot keeps updating the timestamp for Allegations of state terrorism committed by the United States and A Magical Christmas of Magic with Harry and the Potters and Wizardly Friends and Magical Singing Creatures.
The fact that both of these articles have uncommonly long titles may suggest what is going wrong (with the /archive1, the shorter of these is 82 characters - does Perl use 80 character lines for something?). Geometry guy 19:58, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
Hi again - VeblenBot doesn't seem to be listing Category:Natural sciences and mathematics peer reviews. (Note that I combined these two topics in one category.) Geometry guy 21:58, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
I just wanted to say thanks for your support for my RfA, which closed (74/2/0) this morning. Your comment and support was very much appreciated. I'm sure we'll bump into each other again at WP:CSD or elsewhere. Happy‑ melon 15:37, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
It needs a lot more referencing than it currently does. Judgesurreal777 ( talk) 22:41, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
You're right about the thing with Guliani. But I heard that he was going to endorse McCain from one of his campaign staffers on Fox.
Thanks. Now I see the advantages of Harvard citations. The main drawback, as the template is currently implementated, is that it is not immediate to go back from the reference list to the point or points where that particular book or paper is mentioned. I know, it is a minor snag, but I like it when in a book each reference lists the places where it is mentioned in the text. I have mentioned this in Template talk:Harvard citation#From_the_reference_to_the_text.3F. Happy editing, Goochelaar ( talk) 11:34, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
Carl - If you remember, you weighed in on the use of user pages to draft a future RFC, and whether such use might count as an attack page if not promptly converted from a personal on-wiki collection of evidence about a person into an actual RFC or ArbCom case. The above is an ongoing discussion of one such user page; part of the question is what counts as a "reasonable" period of time to bring the RFC or delete the draft. (Opinions differ from "a few days" to "several months.") The discussion seems to be floundering a bit on what this policy means, so, if you're interested, I thought you might have input to add. (If not, sorry to bug you.) Thanks. -- TheOther Bob 15:27, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
Hello Carl, I have finally finished cleaning the consequence operator article. There are still three directs left that I don't know what to do with:
I think they are all idiosyncratic Herrmann terminology, but that doesn't seem to qualify them for speedy deletion. Any immediate advice? (If it means any work, don't worry. I can just put them to Redirects for discussion and see what happens.) -- Hans Adler ( talk) 19:04, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
What would you think of the following? (last sentence added)
Perhaps some other wording would serve the same end.-- Strider12 ( talk) 21:56, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
This doesn't seem right. Gimmetrow 22:30, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for answering my questions, but if import is disabled, what good does him having it do? Earth bending master 00:39, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
I just wanted to say a quick thankyou for fixing the mess I inadvertantly left in {{
db-t3}}
and {{
old template}}
last night when I was dragged away by RL. I will make a response to the comments MZMcBride has raised on his talk page, but your fix was both clever and uncontroversial, and very much appreciated.
Happy‑
melon
12:02, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
I disagree with your assessment about not using inline citations for articles on mathematics. When I see things that do not use inline citations, I will mark them as such. I would like to know that this information comes from a book and that it isn't just someone's home grown lecture notes.
Please do not check on every edit that I have made from this IP address. I find your actions deeply disturbing. 155.198.204.98 ( talk) 17:43, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
Hi Carl, can you look at the new Maths tables I posted at the SelectionBot talk page? We have two variants of the Log formula now. Tito's "tweak" looks to be the best yet, IMHO, but I'd like your opinion if possible. Thanks, Walkerma ( talk) 20:52, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
Hello Carl, can you have a look at this new article and its creator? He re-reverted me while I was writing a justification for my reverts on the article's talk page. I must go offline now for at least an hour and feel a message on their talk page is necessary, but I don't have the concentration now to write a message that doesn't WP:BITE. Will be back later. -- Hans Adler ( talk) 18:08, 7 February 2008 (UTC) PS: Of course, you can also just leave it as it is and I will deal with this later… I know you have enough to do even without me drawing you into such things. -- Hans Adler ( talk) 18:10, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
08-Feb-2008: Hello, User:Wikid77 here. I got your message, and will begin to answer, but I have to admit I've forgotten details about the page-buffer limit (19,000 WP edits have clouded my memory). I'm sure the page-buffer size is over 1 MB. I think it is the same or related to the template-expansion limit, and also seems purposely limited to reduce malicious server attacks attempted by pages stuffed with huge templates. The page-buffer limit counts the contents of "<noinclude>" sections (probably to prevent flooding with 100KB noincludes in repeated templates). However, the "<noinclude>" sections are not expanded for the embedded templates. I continually hit the page-buffer limit when doing an "impossible" task: I wrote " Template:Location_map_many_polarx" to place latitude/longitude markers on polar or conic projection maps, by performing hideous nested calculations to skew latitude and longitude with the conic mathematical transforms, 5 times per template (using tedious quadratic and linear interpolation). This is how Wikipedians can mark maps in polar areas, such as across Canada, Template:Location_map_CanadaTerrain. It actually works, which is why I used it enough to hit the buffer limit. I'll try to remember/find the actual page-size limit from "way back" in November 2007, and reply later. I'm sure you understand wiki-amnesia. - Wikid77 ( talk) 10:35, 8 February 2008 (UTC)