Poland Template‑class | |||||||
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Can someone explain the title of this template to me? It appears to be about Holocaust in Poland, which was perpetrated by the Nazis. Unfortunately the title suggests "Poland perpetrators", i.e. perpetration of the Holocaust by Poles or Polish organization. - yet as far as I can see none of the people or organizations listed in the template where Polish, most appear to be German with a couple of other nationalities.
Aside form the title, the template itself appears to be ok and useful. Volunteer Marek ( talk) 23:38, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
Actually now I'm thinking that "occupied" should be added to the template title. Volunteer Marek ( talk) 01:08, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
Ummmmm [1] - there was a discussion related to this and Hoops Gza didn't bother to participate. If you're going to undo discussed moves at the very least you should make an attempt to participate in the discussion. Volunteer Marek ( talk) 02:26, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
I'm thinking that you struggle with reading comprehension. You do not have consensus to move the page to "German occupied Poland". You brought up the idea and it appears that one other person agreed. The titles of these boxes refer to the geographic location where the events took place. The events in this box took place in what is commonly known as Poland. That is what it is known as throughout the world. It is well understood. There is no need for further clarification. In fact it is almost an insult to intelligence to put in "German occupied" before every article relating to the Holocaust. Of course they took place in German occupied land - Germans were the perpetrators. Would you also like to move The Holocaust to The Holocaust in German-occupied lands? You know, to distinguish it from that other, imaginary Holocaust that took place outside of German-occupied lands?
It is very obvious to anyone with a passing knowledge of the subject what the title means. This is a case where adding more words to the title might actually confuse rather than help readers. Hoops gza ( talk) 01:54, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
Nope, you do not have consensus. And your sources do nothing to disprove the fact that this is most commonly referred to as, and it is a commonly accepted understanding that, this is referred to as "The Holocaust in Poland", like the main article that the template links to.
I repeat: Would you also like to move The Holocaust to The Holocaust in German-occupied lands? You know, to distinguish it from that other, imaginary Holocaust that took place outside of German-occupied lands? Or perhaps we should move it to The Holocaust perpetrated by Nazi Germany. Such a move makes no sense and is disruptive rather than constructive. Hoops gza ( talk) 07:25, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
One user wrote a one line response agreeing with your proposal. That is not consensus. I have not provided opinion, I have provided reasoning, logic and fact. It is not an opinion that "The Holocaust" is accepted terminology which means among other things "the crimes perpetrated by Nazi Germany in German-occupied lands". It is a fact. The title explains itself. Your proposal is somewhat akin to saying "the murder committed by the murderer". The evidence is woven right into Wikipedia. The Holocaust in Poland is the title of the main article and it is also widely accepted terminology. The only reason we even added in "in Poland" was for the purposes of distinguishing the geographic regions of the large event. What exactly do you think "German-occupied" distinguishes, anyhow?
First you should try getting The Holocaust in Poland moved to The Holocaust in German-occupied Poland before you try getting this moved to another title. Hoops gza ( talk) 13:51, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
Preserving here by providing this link; my rationale was: Trim list to those collaborators with a role in perpetrating the Holocaust in Poland, per the name of the template. I.e. Judenrat, Russian Liberation Army do not apply. -- K.e.coffman ( talk) 04:04, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
"In any case, the Judenrat became an instrument in the hands of the Gestapo for the extermination of the Jews" page 73 -- MyMoloboaccount ( talk) 18:02, 27 May 2019 (UTC)
Poland Template‑class | |||||||
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Can someone explain the title of this template to me? It appears to be about Holocaust in Poland, which was perpetrated by the Nazis. Unfortunately the title suggests "Poland perpetrators", i.e. perpetration of the Holocaust by Poles or Polish organization. - yet as far as I can see none of the people or organizations listed in the template where Polish, most appear to be German with a couple of other nationalities.
Aside form the title, the template itself appears to be ok and useful. Volunteer Marek ( talk) 23:38, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
Actually now I'm thinking that "occupied" should be added to the template title. Volunteer Marek ( talk) 01:08, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
Ummmmm [1] - there was a discussion related to this and Hoops Gza didn't bother to participate. If you're going to undo discussed moves at the very least you should make an attempt to participate in the discussion. Volunteer Marek ( talk) 02:26, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
I'm thinking that you struggle with reading comprehension. You do not have consensus to move the page to "German occupied Poland". You brought up the idea and it appears that one other person agreed. The titles of these boxes refer to the geographic location where the events took place. The events in this box took place in what is commonly known as Poland. That is what it is known as throughout the world. It is well understood. There is no need for further clarification. In fact it is almost an insult to intelligence to put in "German occupied" before every article relating to the Holocaust. Of course they took place in German occupied land - Germans were the perpetrators. Would you also like to move The Holocaust to The Holocaust in German-occupied lands? You know, to distinguish it from that other, imaginary Holocaust that took place outside of German-occupied lands?
It is very obvious to anyone with a passing knowledge of the subject what the title means. This is a case where adding more words to the title might actually confuse rather than help readers. Hoops gza ( talk) 01:54, 28 June 2011 (UTC)
Nope, you do not have consensus. And your sources do nothing to disprove the fact that this is most commonly referred to as, and it is a commonly accepted understanding that, this is referred to as "The Holocaust in Poland", like the main article that the template links to.
I repeat: Would you also like to move The Holocaust to The Holocaust in German-occupied lands? You know, to distinguish it from that other, imaginary Holocaust that took place outside of German-occupied lands? Or perhaps we should move it to The Holocaust perpetrated by Nazi Germany. Such a move makes no sense and is disruptive rather than constructive. Hoops gza ( talk) 07:25, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
One user wrote a one line response agreeing with your proposal. That is not consensus. I have not provided opinion, I have provided reasoning, logic and fact. It is not an opinion that "The Holocaust" is accepted terminology which means among other things "the crimes perpetrated by Nazi Germany in German-occupied lands". It is a fact. The title explains itself. Your proposal is somewhat akin to saying "the murder committed by the murderer". The evidence is woven right into Wikipedia. The Holocaust in Poland is the title of the main article and it is also widely accepted terminology. The only reason we even added in "in Poland" was for the purposes of distinguishing the geographic regions of the large event. What exactly do you think "German-occupied" distinguishes, anyhow?
First you should try getting The Holocaust in Poland moved to The Holocaust in German-occupied Poland before you try getting this moved to another title. Hoops gza ( talk) 13:51, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
Preserving here by providing this link; my rationale was: Trim list to those collaborators with a role in perpetrating the Holocaust in Poland, per the name of the template. I.e. Judenrat, Russian Liberation Army do not apply. -- K.e.coffman ( talk) 04:04, 23 May 2019 (UTC)
"In any case, the Judenrat became an instrument in the hands of the Gestapo for the extermination of the Jews" page 73 -- MyMoloboaccount ( talk) 18:02, 27 May 2019 (UTC)