This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 8 | Archive 9 | Archive 10 | Archive 11 | Archive 12 | → | Archive 15 |
Because this template is used to flag specific unsourced statements (as opposed to general ones that are much harder to fix) it should include a category other than Category:Articles with unsourced statements and the dated subcategories. I propose Articles with specific unsourced statements and the associated dated sub categories. Because the change can be made in the template, this will not affect the bots that currently add dates to it. -- Selket Talk 21:58, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
{{
edit protected}}
ARGAN: Argan oil is, for example, used in soap such as that made in France by Maison du Savon of Marseille. The 'Artisanat de Provence' product 'Huile d'Argan', is a green coloured, sweet scented block hand soap.
82.31.4.115 (
talk) 11:29, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
{{
edit protected}}
In place of the [citation needed] at the reference to the Orion Society in the Place-Based Education article, please substitute:
http://www.orionmagazine.org/index.php/education/item/3539/
69.193.24.166 ( talk) 19:50, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
{{
Citation needed}}
template. Please raise this matter on the discussion page of the article concerned. --
Redrose64 (
talk) 22:05, 30 September 2010 (UTC)There's been a good discussion about this template at the verifiability talk page. Some questions have been raised about how we might reduce misuse of the cn template. I've worked up couple of suggestions, the first of which is to replace the sentence "Claims that you think are wrong may alternatively be tagged with {{Dubious}}" with a paragraph:
Does this seem a reasonable change to others? -- Nuujinn ( talk) 13:57, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
That all seems right to me. The more I think about it, the less I think it matters whether a cn tag is a "challenge" or not for the reasons I tried to articulate with this edit at the V discussion. It is not as if one meets BURDEN once text is deleted by arguing that something was not challenged properly by invoking dubious vs. cn. Somebody can take it however they want if I add a cn tag, but if a source is never provided and I delete the claim, they will have to provide one. And if I am fine with the fact remaining in, but think an inline citation is better, there is nothing wrong with a tag remaining there until I or somebody else gets a chance to insert one. Of course, to me, a dubious tag would indicate that somebody thinks that fact is wrong and is probably more likely to quickly remove it. Regardless, BURDEN applies once it is removed. Novaseminary ( talk) 14:54, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
It looks like the vast majority of the discussion on this has occurred at wp:ver. North8000 ( talk) 13:19, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
{{
edit protected}}
Most of this article is about frictional and not structural unemployment - very misleading for academic use.
86.141.152.14 ( talk) 20:19, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
It seems that discussion has recently died out regarding these two templates. Is there any more work to be done before merging them? :| TelCo NaSp Ve :| 06:10, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
Hi. Could someone please introduce a second example that demonstrates the use of both the date and the reason parameters (assuming that is possible). Thanks. GFHandel . 20:17, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
Please add [[hy:Կաղապար:Փաստ]]. Thanks, -- 80.86.239.146 ( talk) 14:21, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
{{ edit protected}} fix the c in citation — Preceding unsigned comment added by Windowsfan1219 ( talk • contribs) 12:21, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
Is this supposed to be the date that the claim was added to the Wikipedia article, or the date that the "citation needed" itself was added? — Merc64 ( talk) 21:02, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
{{ edit protected}}
There are factual errors in the history page. Krispy Kreme history is available at http://www.krispykreme.com/about-us/history
71.206.158.39 ( talk) 12:15, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
http://hs.forestlake.k12.mn.us/activities/athletics/ 70.100.2.55 ( talk) 22:13, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
I noticed that there is a (citation needed) by Emerson Wilson name. I am not sure what is needed. As I stated he was named and played on the high school All American team in 1952. A picture and write up of the game was in the Memphis Tenn newspaper. He played football for the University of Colorado and was a High football coach for many years. There is an article in the Kansas City Star remembrances section October 30, 2010 which tells of his achievements. At Wyandotte he was All City, All Sunflower, All State and to my knowledge the only Wyandotte football player to be named to the High School All American Team. If you need any more information please contact me thank you Frank Harman Frank Harman ( talk) 16:14, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
so when i go to tescos and get me some elderflower drink, its white/yellw or clear so elderflowers aint pink innit —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.7.123.60 ( talk) 22:55, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
I'd like to apply
this sandbox change to the template.
It prevents this template from being substituted, in that it substitutes to the template's transcluded form:{{subst:Citation needed}} → {{Citation needed| date=June 2010}}
(the date is filled in automagically if omitted).
The same change was applied yesterday to {{
dn}}.
Any objections?
Amalthea 09:41, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
If the title parameter of the generated link could be set then it could be used to show the reason when a mouse is hovered over it. Currently it is set to "Wikipedia:Citation needed" which is what it links to, this isn't terribly useful. Dmcq ( talk) 21:47, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
Referring to Kothamangalam details, I have found that photo for Mariyam Jacobite Syrian Orthodox Church, Cheengeri, Meenangadi, Malabar Diocese is wrongly named as "St Marys Church, Kothamangalam".
Since there is no link to edit the same and not sure how to go about it. Can some one take the initiative to correct the same?
Regards, George. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Georgethekkumpurath ( talk • contribs) 05:13, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia says Potemkin was turned into scrap. I photographed ship allegedly the Potemkin in 2007 in St Petersburg harbor. I can attach photo, if requested Tony Joseph — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.169.84.77 ( talk) 21:58, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Vern Law did not attend Provo High School. He did help coach the baseball team. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.37.171.52 ( talk) 23:06, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
I dispute the comment in facebook that Amalia Rodriges the Fado singer Had a summer house in this vilage. "Zambujeira do mar" In fact the summer house was near Brejao and Azenha do mar fishing harbour on the coast overlooking a beach with the same name as the singer itself. "Praia da Amalia. I do certify this as a accurate information as I did know Amalia and her husband in person. And in case of doubt please do contact the authorities of Camara municipal the Odemira.
I did cite this info as i was browsing around and found this to be related to Wikipedia posting on show in Facebook.
Regards. Jose C
Jcarrao@yahoo.co.uk — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.33.12.146 ( talk) 15:46, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please remove the various citation neede tags in the Personel section. Citations (to the clubs website) have been added. Thanks. Fork me ( talk) 17:54, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
Fork me ( talk) 17:54, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
Based on the information on the template page, except in certain cases information which requires citations have no specific deadline. I would like to inquire as to why this is the case; would it not make sense to delete any information regardless of the topic until it can be cited? I realise this means that many articles would be incomplete or possibly stubs all of a sudden, but would this not also help Wikipedia strengthen its focus on the need for citations? MatRockswell ( talk) 17:12, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
It has an optional argument where you put the text string that you want the notice to follow, while you add the actual template to the end of the sentence/paragraph/article so as not to clutter up the text with quibbling.
Interesting gimmick. Did we have it and reject it?
Varlaam (
talk) 16:41, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
The DMSM precedence I believe according to DoD websites is immediately above the bronze star and not the air medal as indicated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.228.235.134 ( talk) 02:47, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The flag: "This claim needs references to reliable sources from December 2011", is terribly confusing. I propose this be changed to "This claim, {{{date|}}}, needs references to reliable sources". How this is done is another matter maybe better discussed on Template:Fix's talk page if necessary. Otherwise if you don't see anything wrong with it explain to me why I can get the impression that the source must come from December 2011 out of my head? :) Starfleet Academy " Live long and prosper." 07:18, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
Thank you very much! :) Starfleet Academy " Live long and prosper." 05:32, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
Reference links include the opening bracket, the number, and the closing bracket in the hyperlink, like so: [1]. In citation needed (and company), the brackets aren't included as part of the link. Is there a decent reason for this? BreachReach talk 18:01, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
9/11 tribute songs andrew john ayres
Andrew John Ayres is a UK based Singer/Songwriter from Staffordshire UK His poetic and moving Song Grey Skies in September has had numerous positive reviews though out the world The actual song was recorded in Weston, Staffordshire in 2003 .Although no percussion is used on the actual track, Ayres brings vocal and guitar and acoustic piano to this song to make what is widely accepted as a true heartfelt 9/11 tribute song.
Amazon.com lists as http://www.amazon.co.uk/Grey-Skies-In-September-Single/dp/B005DNVVFM
citation needed Dont know how to paste this guys .. help please ?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Questionsuk ( talk • contribs) 21:50, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
Adult cockatiels are not sexually dimorphic, though several colorations (not all) indicate the likelihood of one sex or the other. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.36.130.190 ( talk) 03:57, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
The citation needed at Sándor Gaál is: Teofil T. Vescan: Fizica teoretica, Bucuresti 1957, vol. I, page 270 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Miholcsa Gyula ( talk • contribs) 14:49, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
The mouse-over text of this template, and of others either invoking it directly or having been developed from it, is: "This claim needs references to reliable sources from [month + year]". I suspect it is meant to be: "This claim needs references to reliable sources since [month + year]." Should this be changed in {{ Fix}} or somewhere else? -- Michael Bednarek ( talk) 08:33, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
Quite a few pages have literally "(citation needed)" instead of the template.
I will see if an edit filter can check to see if new attempts can be stopped and if a bot can update the existing examples. Mark Hurd ( talk) 15:31, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
As is mentioned in section 3 of this page:
Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons should be removed immediately. Do not tag it: immediately remove it.
which means a dubious claim about Humphrey Bogart would be deleted now, if he were alive, rather than having {{ citation needed}} added. I don't have time at the moment to just change it myself, however I suggest an unlikely fact about an inanimate object that is true, but makes sense it needs a citation, like "The maximim number of moves needed to return a Rubik's Cube to its original position is 20 moves." ( God's number) Mark Hurd ( talk) 10:50, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
Is it possible to have the tooltip display the "reason=" parameter instead of the standard message? This would be far more useful. "reason=" would also be useful on {{ dubious}}. Spinning Spark 17:22, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Proposed change of the banner wording from "citation needed" to "unverified information" -- PBS ( talk) 16:51, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
The current wording ("citation needed") is a inter-editor maintenance message requesting a citation, and as such is a piece of Wikipedia jargon (internally efficient shorthand) borrowed from academia. "unverified information" would be a more meaningful warning to the general readership of Wikiepdia articles. My proposed change would only be to the banner displayed, the template could keep the same name, and the link can either remain the same or be changed to link to WP:INCITE (a distinct and separate issue). -- PBS ( talk) 16:51, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
{{
Reference necessary}}
which uses a dotted underline, and {{
Citation needed span}}
which uses a pink box rather than underlining. --
Redrose64 (
talk) 22:49, 14 August 2012 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 8 | Archive 9 | Archive 10 | Archive 11 | Archive 12 | → | Archive 15 |
Because this template is used to flag specific unsourced statements (as opposed to general ones that are much harder to fix) it should include a category other than Category:Articles with unsourced statements and the dated subcategories. I propose Articles with specific unsourced statements and the associated dated sub categories. Because the change can be made in the template, this will not affect the bots that currently add dates to it. -- Selket Talk 21:58, 3 September 2010 (UTC)
{{
edit protected}}
ARGAN: Argan oil is, for example, used in soap such as that made in France by Maison du Savon of Marseille. The 'Artisanat de Provence' product 'Huile d'Argan', is a green coloured, sweet scented block hand soap.
82.31.4.115 (
talk) 11:29, 25 September 2010 (UTC)
{{
edit protected}}
In place of the [citation needed] at the reference to the Orion Society in the Place-Based Education article, please substitute:
http://www.orionmagazine.org/index.php/education/item/3539/
69.193.24.166 ( talk) 19:50, 30 September 2010 (UTC)
{{
Citation needed}}
template. Please raise this matter on the discussion page of the article concerned. --
Redrose64 (
talk) 22:05, 30 September 2010 (UTC)There's been a good discussion about this template at the verifiability talk page. Some questions have been raised about how we might reduce misuse of the cn template. I've worked up couple of suggestions, the first of which is to replace the sentence "Claims that you think are wrong may alternatively be tagged with {{Dubious}}" with a paragraph:
Does this seem a reasonable change to others? -- Nuujinn ( talk) 13:57, 21 November 2010 (UTC)
That all seems right to me. The more I think about it, the less I think it matters whether a cn tag is a "challenge" or not for the reasons I tried to articulate with this edit at the V discussion. It is not as if one meets BURDEN once text is deleted by arguing that something was not challenged properly by invoking dubious vs. cn. Somebody can take it however they want if I add a cn tag, but if a source is never provided and I delete the claim, they will have to provide one. And if I am fine with the fact remaining in, but think an inline citation is better, there is nothing wrong with a tag remaining there until I or somebody else gets a chance to insert one. Of course, to me, a dubious tag would indicate that somebody thinks that fact is wrong and is probably more likely to quickly remove it. Regardless, BURDEN applies once it is removed. Novaseminary ( talk) 14:54, 23 November 2010 (UTC)
It looks like the vast majority of the discussion on this has occurred at wp:ver. North8000 ( talk) 13:19, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
{{
edit protected}}
Most of this article is about frictional and not structural unemployment - very misleading for academic use.
86.141.152.14 ( talk) 20:19, 1 January 2011 (UTC)
It seems that discussion has recently died out regarding these two templates. Is there any more work to be done before merging them? :| TelCo NaSp Ve :| 06:10, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
Hi. Could someone please introduce a second example that demonstrates the use of both the date and the reason parameters (assuming that is possible). Thanks. GFHandel . 20:17, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
Please add [[hy:Կաղապար:Փաստ]]. Thanks, -- 80.86.239.146 ( talk) 14:21, 4 January 2011 (UTC)
{{ edit protected}} fix the c in citation — Preceding unsigned comment added by Windowsfan1219 ( talk • contribs) 12:21, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
Is this supposed to be the date that the claim was added to the Wikipedia article, or the date that the "citation needed" itself was added? — Merc64 ( talk) 21:02, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
{{ edit protected}}
There are factual errors in the history page. Krispy Kreme history is available at http://www.krispykreme.com/about-us/history
71.206.158.39 ( talk) 12:15, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
http://hs.forestlake.k12.mn.us/activities/athletics/ 70.100.2.55 ( talk) 22:13, 17 April 2011 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
I noticed that there is a (citation needed) by Emerson Wilson name. I am not sure what is needed. As I stated he was named and played on the high school All American team in 1952. A picture and write up of the game was in the Memphis Tenn newspaper. He played football for the University of Colorado and was a High football coach for many years. There is an article in the Kansas City Star remembrances section October 30, 2010 which tells of his achievements. At Wyandotte he was All City, All Sunflower, All State and to my knowledge the only Wyandotte football player to be named to the High School All American Team. If you need any more information please contact me thank you Frank Harman Frank Harman ( talk) 16:14, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
so when i go to tescos and get me some elderflower drink, its white/yellw or clear so elderflowers aint pink innit —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.7.123.60 ( talk) 22:55, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
I'd like to apply
this sandbox change to the template.
It prevents this template from being substituted, in that it substitutes to the template's transcluded form:{{subst:Citation needed}} → {{Citation needed| date=June 2010}}
(the date is filled in automagically if omitted).
The same change was applied yesterday to {{
dn}}.
Any objections?
Amalthea 09:41, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
If the title parameter of the generated link could be set then it could be used to show the reason when a mouse is hovered over it. Currently it is set to "Wikipedia:Citation needed" which is what it links to, this isn't terribly useful. Dmcq ( talk) 21:47, 30 June 2011 (UTC)
Referring to Kothamangalam details, I have found that photo for Mariyam Jacobite Syrian Orthodox Church, Cheengeri, Meenangadi, Malabar Diocese is wrongly named as "St Marys Church, Kothamangalam".
Since there is no link to edit the same and not sure how to go about it. Can some one take the initiative to correct the same?
Regards, George. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Georgethekkumpurath ( talk • contribs) 05:13, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia says Potemkin was turned into scrap. I photographed ship allegedly the Potemkin in 2007 in St Petersburg harbor. I can attach photo, if requested Tony Joseph — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.169.84.77 ( talk) 21:58, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Vern Law did not attend Provo High School. He did help coach the baseball team. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.37.171.52 ( talk) 23:06, 5 August 2011 (UTC)
I dispute the comment in facebook that Amalia Rodriges the Fado singer Had a summer house in this vilage. "Zambujeira do mar" In fact the summer house was near Brejao and Azenha do mar fishing harbour on the coast overlooking a beach with the same name as the singer itself. "Praia da Amalia. I do certify this as a accurate information as I did know Amalia and her husband in person. And in case of doubt please do contact the authorities of Camara municipal the Odemira.
I did cite this info as i was browsing around and found this to be related to Wikipedia posting on show in Facebook.
Regards. Jose C
Jcarrao@yahoo.co.uk — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.33.12.146 ( talk) 15:46, 15 August 2011 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please remove the various citation neede tags in the Personel section. Citations (to the clubs website) have been added. Thanks. Fork me ( talk) 17:54, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
Fork me ( talk) 17:54, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
Based on the information on the template page, except in certain cases information which requires citations have no specific deadline. I would like to inquire as to why this is the case; would it not make sense to delete any information regardless of the topic until it can be cited? I realise this means that many articles would be incomplete or possibly stubs all of a sudden, but would this not also help Wikipedia strengthen its focus on the need for citations? MatRockswell ( talk) 17:12, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
It has an optional argument where you put the text string that you want the notice to follow, while you add the actual template to the end of the sentence/paragraph/article so as not to clutter up the text with quibbling.
Interesting gimmick. Did we have it and reject it?
Varlaam (
talk) 16:41, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
The DMSM precedence I believe according to DoD websites is immediately above the bronze star and not the air medal as indicated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.228.235.134 ( talk) 02:47, 16 November 2011 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The flag: "This claim needs references to reliable sources from December 2011", is terribly confusing. I propose this be changed to "This claim, {{{date|}}}, needs references to reliable sources". How this is done is another matter maybe better discussed on Template:Fix's talk page if necessary. Otherwise if you don't see anything wrong with it explain to me why I can get the impression that the source must come from December 2011 out of my head? :) Starfleet Academy " Live long and prosper." 07:18, 6 December 2011 (UTC)
Thank you very much! :) Starfleet Academy " Live long and prosper." 05:32, 7 December 2011 (UTC)
Reference links include the opening bracket, the number, and the closing bracket in the hyperlink, like so: [1]. In citation needed (and company), the brackets aren't included as part of the link. Is there a decent reason for this? BreachReach talk 18:01, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
9/11 tribute songs andrew john ayres
Andrew John Ayres is a UK based Singer/Songwriter from Staffordshire UK His poetic and moving Song Grey Skies in September has had numerous positive reviews though out the world The actual song was recorded in Weston, Staffordshire in 2003 .Although no percussion is used on the actual track, Ayres brings vocal and guitar and acoustic piano to this song to make what is widely accepted as a true heartfelt 9/11 tribute song.
Amazon.com lists as http://www.amazon.co.uk/Grey-Skies-In-September-Single/dp/B005DNVVFM
citation needed Dont know how to paste this guys .. help please ?? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Questionsuk ( talk • contribs) 21:50, 15 February 2012 (UTC)
Adult cockatiels are not sexually dimorphic, though several colorations (not all) indicate the likelihood of one sex or the other. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.36.130.190 ( talk) 03:57, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
The citation needed at Sándor Gaál is: Teofil T. Vescan: Fizica teoretica, Bucuresti 1957, vol. I, page 270 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Miholcsa Gyula ( talk • contribs) 14:49, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
The mouse-over text of this template, and of others either invoking it directly or having been developed from it, is: "This claim needs references to reliable sources from [month + year]". I suspect it is meant to be: "This claim needs references to reliable sources since [month + year]." Should this be changed in {{ Fix}} or somewhere else? -- Michael Bednarek ( talk) 08:33, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
Quite a few pages have literally "(citation needed)" instead of the template.
I will see if an edit filter can check to see if new attempts can be stopped and if a bot can update the existing examples. Mark Hurd ( talk) 15:31, 17 February 2012 (UTC)
As is mentioned in section 3 of this page:
Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons should be removed immediately. Do not tag it: immediately remove it.
which means a dubious claim about Humphrey Bogart would be deleted now, if he were alive, rather than having {{ citation needed}} added. I don't have time at the moment to just change it myself, however I suggest an unlikely fact about an inanimate object that is true, but makes sense it needs a citation, like "The maximim number of moves needed to return a Rubik's Cube to its original position is 20 moves." ( God's number) Mark Hurd ( talk) 10:50, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
Is it possible to have the tooltip display the "reason=" parameter instead of the standard message? This would be far more useful. "reason=" would also be useful on {{ dubious}}. Spinning Spark 17:22, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Proposed change of the banner wording from "citation needed" to "unverified information" -- PBS ( talk) 16:51, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
The current wording ("citation needed") is a inter-editor maintenance message requesting a citation, and as such is a piece of Wikipedia jargon (internally efficient shorthand) borrowed from academia. "unverified information" would be a more meaningful warning to the general readership of Wikiepdia articles. My proposed change would only be to the banner displayed, the template could keep the same name, and the link can either remain the same or be changed to link to WP:INCITE (a distinct and separate issue). -- PBS ( talk) 16:51, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
{{
Reference necessary}}
which uses a dotted underline, and {{
Citation needed span}}
which uses a pink box rather than underlining. --
Redrose64 (
talk) 22:49, 14 August 2012 (UTC)