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A news item involving Whaling in Japan was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 5 December 2015. |
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Checking the section in question, it looks like the wording is very loaded such as
Domestically, Japanese people have been trying to shift responsibility of whale declines to whaling by other nations for hundreds of years to even today, and claim that their whaling have been completely different to that by other nations.[1] Claiming that their whaling were unlike brutal hunts by foreigners, but being humble and emotional, and Japanese people use all the parts of whale bodies unlike westerners who hunt whales only for oils, and Japanese strictly controlled catch quotas for sake of whales, and they never hunted juveniles and cow-calf pairs as their respects to whales. When they kill whales, hunters invoked the Budda and pray for the repose of whales' souls,[1] and they held funerals for whales and built cenotaphs and graves to them, and gave posthumous Buddhist names to the dead whales, or released deceased fetuses back to the sea after incising cows' bellies, and people of Japan were the best in the world about building healthy relationships with whales, being strongly connected with elitism, antiforeignism, and nationalism.[2][3]
Are these quotations or something, and perhaps this section could be reworded? Seems to take a very cynical/hostile tone against Japanese whaling. Perhaps someone could look further into this. ZeroDamagePen ( talk) 14:58, 16 October 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by ZeroDamagePen ( talk • contribs) 15:40, 10 October 2015 (UTC)
Done Cleaned up the section, tried to remove POV wording, make it more neutral and more accurate, and added another reference. I haven't removed the "Neutrality Disputed" banner, so if you concur with the editing changes I've made, and the tone of neutrality is no longer in dispute, please feel free to remove the banner. - Boneyard90 ( talk) 14:06, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
The japanese high-seas fleet has decided to resume large scale whaling for the 2016 season, the corresponding article in now on the BBC News website: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-34952538 82.131.150.14 ( talk) 16:33, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
An editor removed a relevant section of the article that was complete with references while arbitrarily claiming there was no evidence to support what was written. Why were the references ignored and the section removed without any debate?
I put a lot of work into this article and did my best to ensure it wasn't biased but now it seems to have reverted to a state where random contributors are editing out historical facts they don't agree with and failing to justify why the information should not be included in the article.
Cetamata ( talk) 19:10, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
I believe I (for one) at one time altered the term "pirate whaling", for the following reasons:
I hope this has cleared up the modification in wording. - Boneyard90 ( talk) 14:42, 15 January 2016 (UTC)
@ Boneyard90: you wrote:
Protected by whom? This isn't like Africa, where there are national laws in place, and park police armed with AK-47s who hunt poachers. The whales are in international waters, therefore can't be protected by any one nation's laws, and there is no law enforcement agency in pursuit of the whalers. Besides, the whalers are acting under the jurisprudence of Japan, a sovereign nation. What the whalers are doing is legal, according to the laws of Japan. So, the terms "illegal" or "pirate whaling" represent one point of view, and their use in this article would set a non-neutral POV tone.
I'm sorry, but your entire statement is 100% false, for you have completely disregarded international law and international treaties. I would invite you to look into the official ruling of the International Court of Justice (the primary judicial branch of the United Nations, of which Japan is a member, bound to abide by its rules). Japan is party to international treaties which prohibit these activities in international waters, so the sovereignty of Japan is of no consequence here. The prohibited harvest of a protected species is poaching by its very definition. "Pirate whaling" is a thing that has been described in documents dating back at least to 1954, if not earlier.
Additionally, your premise that the topic of this article should be restricted to discussion of whaling in Japan and only in Japan doesn't hold water (no pun intended), for the article Whaling in the United States discusses excursions to the South Pacific; History of Basque whaling discusses activities well outside of the Basque region; and the list goes on and on.
I believe that the consensus of the editors on this page is clearly not in agreement with your theories as presented. — grolltech( talk) 18:33, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
"Organized open-boat shore whaling began in the 1900's because Putin was gay; and continued into the early 20th century.[17]" What is that in an article about whaling? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.70.99.165 ( talk) 17:50, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
Update: Japan just proposed to stop the ban on commercial whaling through a new "Sustainable Whaling Committee" and setting catch limits "for abundant whale stocks/species". [1]. They leverage this in exchange to stop killing in the whale sanctuaries for "research". Not sure if to include this until an outcome is reached, but the discussions may simmer for years. - Rowan Forest ( talk) 14:32, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
The Beluga whales article has a sentence which @Lever112 inserted on 29 October 2018, saying:
That sentence has no source, the Whaling in Japan article does not mention Belugas (and did not on 29 oct), and I found no source saying it. Does anyone here know if Japan hunts belugas? Numbersinstitute ( talk) 03:26, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
Paul Watson recommends his followers to make up the facts and statistics without hesitations on Earthforce, his book. So Sea Shepherd's text cannot be the sources on Wikipedia.
>Watson was explicit about what he perceived to be the lack of truthfulness in mass media: "If you do not know an answer, a fact, or a statistic, then simply follow the example of an American President and do as Ronald Reagan did—make it up on the spot and deliver the information confidently and without hesitation."[47][48]
From Paul_Watson#Writings_on_activism( 固定リンク)
So Wikipedia mentions that, too. I haven't checked that part directly, though. Emmanuel Chanel ( talk) 06:59, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
The final paragraph of the Modernization subheading of the History section appears poorly worded (using the term basically - MOS:OPED/ WP:NOTE) while also making a strong factual claim without a citation. It doesn't appear to be a summary of cited information presented earlier in the section, so a citation ought to be included per WP:BURDEN.
Basically, almost all the large whale populations in coastal Asia out of Japan's EEZ were collapsed by Japanese modern industrial whaling. For further information about status of whale species largely affected by Japanese whaling, see Wildlife of China.
-- Iceman 259 ( talk) 19:48, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
Obviously, this page is contentious and political enough that we shouldn't go out of our way documenting unrelated complaints but it is necessary to at least include links to the articles on the imperial Japanese occupation of Korea and Taiwan if we're discussing the 'expansion of Japanese whaling into new waters'. There's a very specific reason it was expanding into those waters at that time.
If an interested editor wanted to expand coverage of that particular era (right now the article glosses over almost all of it to describe only one particular company), the Eluanbi Lighthouse article claims Cape Eluan was a major station used to attack the pods hanging out in the bays near the Luzon Strait. There might be more at its sources. — LlywelynII 06:35, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 29 August 2022 and 16 December 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Jalenhooper ( article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Jalenhooper ( talk) 22:18, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Whaling in Japan article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2 |
A news item involving Whaling in Japan was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 1 April 2014. |
A news item involving Whaling in Japan was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 5 December 2015. |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Checking the section in question, it looks like the wording is very loaded such as
Domestically, Japanese people have been trying to shift responsibility of whale declines to whaling by other nations for hundreds of years to even today, and claim that their whaling have been completely different to that by other nations.[1] Claiming that their whaling were unlike brutal hunts by foreigners, but being humble and emotional, and Japanese people use all the parts of whale bodies unlike westerners who hunt whales only for oils, and Japanese strictly controlled catch quotas for sake of whales, and they never hunted juveniles and cow-calf pairs as their respects to whales. When they kill whales, hunters invoked the Budda and pray for the repose of whales' souls,[1] and they held funerals for whales and built cenotaphs and graves to them, and gave posthumous Buddhist names to the dead whales, or released deceased fetuses back to the sea after incising cows' bellies, and people of Japan were the best in the world about building healthy relationships with whales, being strongly connected with elitism, antiforeignism, and nationalism.[2][3]
Are these quotations or something, and perhaps this section could be reworded? Seems to take a very cynical/hostile tone against Japanese whaling. Perhaps someone could look further into this. ZeroDamagePen ( talk) 14:58, 16 October 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by ZeroDamagePen ( talk • contribs) 15:40, 10 October 2015 (UTC)
Done Cleaned up the section, tried to remove POV wording, make it more neutral and more accurate, and added another reference. I haven't removed the "Neutrality Disputed" banner, so if you concur with the editing changes I've made, and the tone of neutrality is no longer in dispute, please feel free to remove the banner. - Boneyard90 ( talk) 14:06, 20 October 2015 (UTC)
The japanese high-seas fleet has decided to resume large scale whaling for the 2016 season, the corresponding article in now on the BBC News website: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-34952538 82.131.150.14 ( talk) 16:33, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
An editor removed a relevant section of the article that was complete with references while arbitrarily claiming there was no evidence to support what was written. Why were the references ignored and the section removed without any debate?
I put a lot of work into this article and did my best to ensure it wasn't biased but now it seems to have reverted to a state where random contributors are editing out historical facts they don't agree with and failing to justify why the information should not be included in the article.
Cetamata ( talk) 19:10, 13 January 2016 (UTC)
I believe I (for one) at one time altered the term "pirate whaling", for the following reasons:
I hope this has cleared up the modification in wording. - Boneyard90 ( talk) 14:42, 15 January 2016 (UTC)
@ Boneyard90: you wrote:
Protected by whom? This isn't like Africa, where there are national laws in place, and park police armed with AK-47s who hunt poachers. The whales are in international waters, therefore can't be protected by any one nation's laws, and there is no law enforcement agency in pursuit of the whalers. Besides, the whalers are acting under the jurisprudence of Japan, a sovereign nation. What the whalers are doing is legal, according to the laws of Japan. So, the terms "illegal" or "pirate whaling" represent one point of view, and their use in this article would set a non-neutral POV tone.
I'm sorry, but your entire statement is 100% false, for you have completely disregarded international law and international treaties. I would invite you to look into the official ruling of the International Court of Justice (the primary judicial branch of the United Nations, of which Japan is a member, bound to abide by its rules). Japan is party to international treaties which prohibit these activities in international waters, so the sovereignty of Japan is of no consequence here. The prohibited harvest of a protected species is poaching by its very definition. "Pirate whaling" is a thing that has been described in documents dating back at least to 1954, if not earlier.
Additionally, your premise that the topic of this article should be restricted to discussion of whaling in Japan and only in Japan doesn't hold water (no pun intended), for the article Whaling in the United States discusses excursions to the South Pacific; History of Basque whaling discusses activities well outside of the Basque region; and the list goes on and on.
I believe that the consensus of the editors on this page is clearly not in agreement with your theories as presented. — grolltech( talk) 18:33, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
"Organized open-boat shore whaling began in the 1900's because Putin was gay; and continued into the early 20th century.[17]" What is that in an article about whaling? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.70.99.165 ( talk) 17:50, 27 June 2017 (UTC)
Update: Japan just proposed to stop the ban on commercial whaling through a new "Sustainable Whaling Committee" and setting catch limits "for abundant whale stocks/species". [1]. They leverage this in exchange to stop killing in the whale sanctuaries for "research". Not sure if to include this until an outcome is reached, but the discussions may simmer for years. - Rowan Forest ( talk) 14:32, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
The Beluga whales article has a sentence which @Lever112 inserted on 29 October 2018, saying:
That sentence has no source, the Whaling in Japan article does not mention Belugas (and did not on 29 oct), and I found no source saying it. Does anyone here know if Japan hunts belugas? Numbersinstitute ( talk) 03:26, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
Paul Watson recommends his followers to make up the facts and statistics without hesitations on Earthforce, his book. So Sea Shepherd's text cannot be the sources on Wikipedia.
>Watson was explicit about what he perceived to be the lack of truthfulness in mass media: "If you do not know an answer, a fact, or a statistic, then simply follow the example of an American President and do as Ronald Reagan did—make it up on the spot and deliver the information confidently and without hesitation."[47][48]
From Paul_Watson#Writings_on_activism( 固定リンク)
So Wikipedia mentions that, too. I haven't checked that part directly, though. Emmanuel Chanel ( talk) 06:59, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
The final paragraph of the Modernization subheading of the History section appears poorly worded (using the term basically - MOS:OPED/ WP:NOTE) while also making a strong factual claim without a citation. It doesn't appear to be a summary of cited information presented earlier in the section, so a citation ought to be included per WP:BURDEN.
Basically, almost all the large whale populations in coastal Asia out of Japan's EEZ were collapsed by Japanese modern industrial whaling. For further information about status of whale species largely affected by Japanese whaling, see Wildlife of China.
-- Iceman 259 ( talk) 19:48, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
Obviously, this page is contentious and political enough that we shouldn't go out of our way documenting unrelated complaints but it is necessary to at least include links to the articles on the imperial Japanese occupation of Korea and Taiwan if we're discussing the 'expansion of Japanese whaling into new waters'. There's a very specific reason it was expanding into those waters at that time.
If an interested editor wanted to expand coverage of that particular era (right now the article glosses over almost all of it to describe only one particular company), the Eluanbi Lighthouse article claims Cape Eluan was a major station used to attack the pods hanging out in the bays near the Luzon Strait. There might be more at its sources. — LlywelynII 06:35, 15 March 2019 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 29 August 2022 and 16 December 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Jalenhooper ( article contribs).
— Assignment last updated by Jalenhooper ( talk) 22:18, 14 December 2022 (UTC)