Please read Wikipeida's style guide and Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not. Your recent edits were a series of headlines put in out of sequence in the article. New info does not get prominence (see WP:RECENTISM). You also duplicated information and did not use proper inline citation formatting. Wikipedia:Your first article might help. Cptnono ( talk) 04:40, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
Will read through these guides. Still relatively new to Wikipedia and haven't seen all of this. Thanks. Cetamata ( talk) 04:48, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
Also, there is a ton of information to cover and I can only research and type so fast. So I won't be able to simply update on every subject at once. Thanks again. Cetamata ( talk) 04:49, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
Please stop adding so much to the Whaling in Japan page. This is not the place for all that info, the page is already overstuffed and needs editing. At least two other editors have asked you to be more careful, above and in the talk pages. PrBeacon ( talk) 08:12, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
I hear you. I haven't gone over it much lately but it looks like the concern is the shear mount of information related to modern (relative) whaling. The article is actually OK size wise so it is more of a balance and prominence issue. Basically, the whole article may not be bloated but certain sections might be. It is obvious that you are working to adhere to standards so nice work on that. Look into adding info not related to the contraventions or trimming or consolidating some of it. Cptnono ( talk) 01:03, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
If anybody can find an equal amount of information on Japanese whaling from the 12th - 17th century I'll be shocked. Everything I've read (other than little anecdotes like once upon a time a ruler declared killing mammals was illegal -against religious principles- so "the people" turned on whales in the isolated fishing communities that hunted them) pretty much shows nothing about Japanese whaling prior to the 1600s and not much in the way of changes from the 1600s until the 1890s. How many different ways can you say, "the same guys with the same wooden boats and the same hand-held harpoons killed the same whales for a few centuries"? Cetamata ( talk) 01:19, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
Please do not misrepresent the situation or bypass the normal channels of dispute resolution. This is how I and others see it: You are the one who in fact ignored the talk page discussion by repeatedly changing the article (over the past few months) to suit your POV. Then you reverted my edits after I changed them back. So I warned you about 3RR [1] which you mistakenly thought was a formal report, so you retaliated at the Admin noticeboard, incorrectly, and deleted the warning, which is disingenous at best. Instead of attempting to reach a resolution, you seem to be digging in & making things worse. PrBeacon ( talk) 18:41, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
Hi, I responded to your edit. It appear that you are fairly new. It is a newspaper which assert the existence of opposition from scientist in anti whaling countries on ethical ground. Some might find such reporting to be biased but it is not for us in wikipedia to judge that. We merely report what is written in media and academia. For example, I find the reasoning by Dr. Nick Gales to be faulty. He fail to see that population decrease of whale in the past is from whaling and not from the lack of food. Therefore, recovery of population from moratorium and reduction in fat from reduction in marine fish stock are both logically consistent. However, since this would be my POV, I'm not allow to put that in the edit. On the other hand, one is not allowed to censor information stated in media or academia. Vapour ( talk) 14:38, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
What's been completely counterproductive is the level of animosity regarding recent disputes displayed by PrBeacon. I'm neither pro-whaling, nor pushing a POV nor using any WP policies to justify a particular world view. (among other allegations made)
Anyone unfamiliar with the disputes and the article should review the differences between this article prior to my contributions...
http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Whaling_in_Japan&diff=314880101&oldid=314880089
...and the current version.
http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Whaling_in_Japan&diff=345836939&oldid=345829565
In my contributions to the article, regardless of the debate in the discussion page, I've included factual information complete with citations primarily regarding the history of Japanese whaling. In this information I've included events and facts that, in my opinion, do not all reflect well on Japan including the exploitation of endangered species and acts in contradiction to international regulations such as pirate whaling among other things. Like my use of terms such as "take" this is not done to morally affirm or denounce Japanese whaling. It's done to add factual information on this topic to the article in a neutral manner.
If every word in the Whaling in Japan article is going to be a battle (such as PrBeacon's vendetta to see the word kill appear at least 32 times in the text because "take" is supposedly an industry term to hide the "bad" aspects of whaling) rather than a discussion, exactly how is a neutrality dispute over content ever going to be resolved? Cetamata ( talk) 18:11, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
(I'll think about it - and for the record, I'm also not a bully.)
---Do not continue to post in my talk page PrBeacon. Your input is unwanted. If you want to discuss the dispute in WIJ then discuss it in the WIJ discussion page.--- Cetamata ( talk) 07:22, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
Cptnono, what's the difference between calling someone a "Pro-Whaling POV Pushing Bully" on 4-5 different Wiki's and calling someone a "Jerk" on one page? Cetamata ( talk) 07:43, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
I didn't start adding to Wikipedia to get into flame wars over whaling. There are plenty of forums out there for that BS. I can at least say it won't happen again because it is indeed pointless. Cetamata ( talk) 07:55, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
At this point I'd prefer a 3rd party step in and just make the damn decision already so we can unlock the page and move on. Cetamata ( talk) 07:57, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
You need only look at the timeline below to see how this happened. PrBeacon looked over the Whaling in Japan page and made a decision based on his personal opinions. He decided the article was biased toward the Japanese whaling industry (not anti-whaling enough). He then decided to focus on me as one of the largest contributing editors over the last year. He also decided for himself that the language I used was not anti-whaling enough.
He changed the title "Scientific Research" to "Claims of Research" and "Research Whaling" to "Claims of Research" because of his opinion that any research conducted by the whaling industry is flawed and a disguise for commercial whaling - in other words his POV.
I reverted this and attempted to discuss the change and offered alternatives. In response I was threatened and he restored his changes and went on to continue editing without discussion. I reported him for this.
PrBeacon also changed up to 24 instances of the text including words like "take" to "kill" or "catch and kill". (not kidding, the word kill appeared 8 times before and 32 times after) Once again this is because of his opinion that the word "take" was not anti-whaling enough. He called it an industry term and basically wanted it stricken from the page without further discussion and thats what he proceeded to do.
Cptnono reverted his changes. Then the page was locked as a result of the report.
Since this began, PrBeacon has continued to make allegations that I'm pro-whaling, pushing my POV, using Wikipedia policies to justify my world view, and now he's calling me a bully and inventing conspiracy theories about me. It seems to me that PrBeacon is the one who has basically bullied his way into a disagreement over his unilateral decision to make the "whaling in japan" page an "anti-whaling in japan" page instead of a neutral article. He even claims I went through the article and removed the word kill to replace it repeatedly with take. Yet the history of my edits to the article show no such behavior. Another assumption based on his opinion turned into an accusation of impropriety. Cetamata ( talk) 18:58, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
Here is something interesting that may be relevant (though, I don't know if I can be called a principal editor):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bully
"On the other hand, there are bullying editors who have not exerted themselves to the point where they could be called the principal editor of any significant article. Some of these editors ruthlessly attack editors who are the principal editor of an article and have done the hard yards, accusing them of "ownership", insisting that their own ill-considered contributions take precedence." Cetamata ( talk) 19:37, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
PrBeacon Comments:
( Is bullying the principal editor an accurate charge? Cetamata ( talk) 20:28, 25 February 2010 (UTC) )
From PrBeacon:
"For the record, Cetamata is misrepresenting the situation and bypassing the normal channels of dispute resolution. This is how I and others see it: over the past several months he has repeatedly changed the article to suit his pro-whaling POV, including the euphemisms "take" and "catch" as well as bogus research claims, while ignoring disagreements about these terms on the talk page and paying lip service to WP policies. Most recently, after I changed the terms back, he reverted my edits. So I warned him about 3RR which he mistakenly thought was a formal report, yet he deleted it. He then retaliated at the Admin noticeboard. Instead of attempting to reach a resolution"
Should we match this description of the events up with the timeline?
From my report of PrBeacon:
"Rather than attempting to resolve the issue in the discussion page this user proceeded to begin an edit war by re-reverting back to his recent undone changes and reported me without any prior discussion or attempt at dispute resolution." -Cetamata
Now how does this match up with the timeline?
Cetamata ( talk) 10:15, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
So this is way delayed. I did not notice the pint on my talk page until a few minutes ago. I know you were super stressed and saw that you were not going to be active. I did see your name pop up a week or so ago on my watchlist so hope you are at least not to pissed off. Regardless, it is almost criminal where I am from to not cheers or repay the favor. Best wishes to you if you are off of Wikipedia. Cheers (drinking a Redhook ESB as I type this)
Cptnono (
talk) has bought you a pint! Sharing a pint is a great way to bond with other editors after a day of hard work. Spread the
WikiLove by buying someone else a pint, whether it be someone with whom you have collaborated or had disagreements. Cheers!
Cptnono ( talk) 06:49, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
I hear you. The only suggestion I have is being more assertive. Send them a message saying "hey use the talk page instead of edit summaries". Many editors are just poking around and assume a discussion isn't needed since they assume their changes are correct. A quick friendly note might be all it takes. Of course if the other editor starts reverting try asking for a third opinion at Wikipedia:Third opinion or opening an Wikipedia:Requests for comment. I have to say I completely agree with you here. The sources lump them together and they are all related. This really shouldn't be a question as far as I can tell. Cptnono ( talk) 17:32, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
Whaling only includes the hunting of baleen whales, the sperm whale, and a few of the larger species of beaked whales. Seeing as how pilot whales are in the dolphin family, they should NOT be included in a page on whaling in Iceland. And please, none of that "all cetaceans are whales" nonsense. The definition becomes useless when you state it that way.
And Roys's whaling was more akin to open-boat American whaling in general during that period, as they both used explosive projectiles (depending on the species and region, of course). The way he processed the oil differed somewhat, but it was still open-boat whaling in every sense of the term. They weren't using modern catcher boats with harpoon guns mounted on their bows but simply towing some whaleboats behind steamers- steamers which didn't actually DO any of the catching. How exactly is that modern? Jonas Poole ( talk) 16:44, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
Continue Discussion here.
Look here -- TheSeer ( Talkˑ Contribs) 10:24, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
Hi. When you recently edited Whaling in Japan, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Heavy oil ( check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
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Hello, Cetamata. Voting in the 2016 Arbitration Committee elections is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016.
The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
If you wish to participate in the 2016 election, please review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery ( talk) 22:08, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
Please read Wikipeida's style guide and Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not. Your recent edits were a series of headlines put in out of sequence in the article. New info does not get prominence (see WP:RECENTISM). You also duplicated information and did not use proper inline citation formatting. Wikipedia:Your first article might help. Cptnono ( talk) 04:40, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
Will read through these guides. Still relatively new to Wikipedia and haven't seen all of this. Thanks. Cetamata ( talk) 04:48, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
Also, there is a ton of information to cover and I can only research and type so fast. So I won't be able to simply update on every subject at once. Thanks again. Cetamata ( talk) 04:49, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
Please stop adding so much to the Whaling in Japan page. This is not the place for all that info, the page is already overstuffed and needs editing. At least two other editors have asked you to be more careful, above and in the talk pages. PrBeacon ( talk) 08:12, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
I hear you. I haven't gone over it much lately but it looks like the concern is the shear mount of information related to modern (relative) whaling. The article is actually OK size wise so it is more of a balance and prominence issue. Basically, the whole article may not be bloated but certain sections might be. It is obvious that you are working to adhere to standards so nice work on that. Look into adding info not related to the contraventions or trimming or consolidating some of it. Cptnono ( talk) 01:03, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
If anybody can find an equal amount of information on Japanese whaling from the 12th - 17th century I'll be shocked. Everything I've read (other than little anecdotes like once upon a time a ruler declared killing mammals was illegal -against religious principles- so "the people" turned on whales in the isolated fishing communities that hunted them) pretty much shows nothing about Japanese whaling prior to the 1600s and not much in the way of changes from the 1600s until the 1890s. How many different ways can you say, "the same guys with the same wooden boats and the same hand-held harpoons killed the same whales for a few centuries"? Cetamata ( talk) 01:19, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
Please do not misrepresent the situation or bypass the normal channels of dispute resolution. This is how I and others see it: You are the one who in fact ignored the talk page discussion by repeatedly changing the article (over the past few months) to suit your POV. Then you reverted my edits after I changed them back. So I warned you about 3RR [1] which you mistakenly thought was a formal report, so you retaliated at the Admin noticeboard, incorrectly, and deleted the warning, which is disingenous at best. Instead of attempting to reach a resolution, you seem to be digging in & making things worse. PrBeacon ( talk) 18:41, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
Hi, I responded to your edit. It appear that you are fairly new. It is a newspaper which assert the existence of opposition from scientist in anti whaling countries on ethical ground. Some might find such reporting to be biased but it is not for us in wikipedia to judge that. We merely report what is written in media and academia. For example, I find the reasoning by Dr. Nick Gales to be faulty. He fail to see that population decrease of whale in the past is from whaling and not from the lack of food. Therefore, recovery of population from moratorium and reduction in fat from reduction in marine fish stock are both logically consistent. However, since this would be my POV, I'm not allow to put that in the edit. On the other hand, one is not allowed to censor information stated in media or academia. Vapour ( talk) 14:38, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
What's been completely counterproductive is the level of animosity regarding recent disputes displayed by PrBeacon. I'm neither pro-whaling, nor pushing a POV nor using any WP policies to justify a particular world view. (among other allegations made)
Anyone unfamiliar with the disputes and the article should review the differences between this article prior to my contributions...
http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Whaling_in_Japan&diff=314880101&oldid=314880089
...and the current version.
http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Whaling_in_Japan&diff=345836939&oldid=345829565
In my contributions to the article, regardless of the debate in the discussion page, I've included factual information complete with citations primarily regarding the history of Japanese whaling. In this information I've included events and facts that, in my opinion, do not all reflect well on Japan including the exploitation of endangered species and acts in contradiction to international regulations such as pirate whaling among other things. Like my use of terms such as "take" this is not done to morally affirm or denounce Japanese whaling. It's done to add factual information on this topic to the article in a neutral manner.
If every word in the Whaling in Japan article is going to be a battle (such as PrBeacon's vendetta to see the word kill appear at least 32 times in the text because "take" is supposedly an industry term to hide the "bad" aspects of whaling) rather than a discussion, exactly how is a neutrality dispute over content ever going to be resolved? Cetamata ( talk) 18:11, 24 February 2010 (UTC)
(I'll think about it - and for the record, I'm also not a bully.)
---Do not continue to post in my talk page PrBeacon. Your input is unwanted. If you want to discuss the dispute in WIJ then discuss it in the WIJ discussion page.--- Cetamata ( talk) 07:22, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
Cptnono, what's the difference between calling someone a "Pro-Whaling POV Pushing Bully" on 4-5 different Wiki's and calling someone a "Jerk" on one page? Cetamata ( talk) 07:43, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
I didn't start adding to Wikipedia to get into flame wars over whaling. There are plenty of forums out there for that BS. I can at least say it won't happen again because it is indeed pointless. Cetamata ( talk) 07:55, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
At this point I'd prefer a 3rd party step in and just make the damn decision already so we can unlock the page and move on. Cetamata ( talk) 07:57, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
You need only look at the timeline below to see how this happened. PrBeacon looked over the Whaling in Japan page and made a decision based on his personal opinions. He decided the article was biased toward the Japanese whaling industry (not anti-whaling enough). He then decided to focus on me as one of the largest contributing editors over the last year. He also decided for himself that the language I used was not anti-whaling enough.
He changed the title "Scientific Research" to "Claims of Research" and "Research Whaling" to "Claims of Research" because of his opinion that any research conducted by the whaling industry is flawed and a disguise for commercial whaling - in other words his POV.
I reverted this and attempted to discuss the change and offered alternatives. In response I was threatened and he restored his changes and went on to continue editing without discussion. I reported him for this.
PrBeacon also changed up to 24 instances of the text including words like "take" to "kill" or "catch and kill". (not kidding, the word kill appeared 8 times before and 32 times after) Once again this is because of his opinion that the word "take" was not anti-whaling enough. He called it an industry term and basically wanted it stricken from the page without further discussion and thats what he proceeded to do.
Cptnono reverted his changes. Then the page was locked as a result of the report.
Since this began, PrBeacon has continued to make allegations that I'm pro-whaling, pushing my POV, using Wikipedia policies to justify my world view, and now he's calling me a bully and inventing conspiracy theories about me. It seems to me that PrBeacon is the one who has basically bullied his way into a disagreement over his unilateral decision to make the "whaling in japan" page an "anti-whaling in japan" page instead of a neutral article. He even claims I went through the article and removed the word kill to replace it repeatedly with take. Yet the history of my edits to the article show no such behavior. Another assumption based on his opinion turned into an accusation of impropriety. Cetamata ( talk) 18:58, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
Here is something interesting that may be relevant (though, I don't know if I can be called a principal editor):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bully
"On the other hand, there are bullying editors who have not exerted themselves to the point where they could be called the principal editor of any significant article. Some of these editors ruthlessly attack editors who are the principal editor of an article and have done the hard yards, accusing them of "ownership", insisting that their own ill-considered contributions take precedence." Cetamata ( talk) 19:37, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
PrBeacon Comments:
( Is bullying the principal editor an accurate charge? Cetamata ( talk) 20:28, 25 February 2010 (UTC) )
From PrBeacon:
"For the record, Cetamata is misrepresenting the situation and bypassing the normal channels of dispute resolution. This is how I and others see it: over the past several months he has repeatedly changed the article to suit his pro-whaling POV, including the euphemisms "take" and "catch" as well as bogus research claims, while ignoring disagreements about these terms on the talk page and paying lip service to WP policies. Most recently, after I changed the terms back, he reverted my edits. So I warned him about 3RR which he mistakenly thought was a formal report, yet he deleted it. He then retaliated at the Admin noticeboard. Instead of attempting to reach a resolution"
Should we match this description of the events up with the timeline?
From my report of PrBeacon:
"Rather than attempting to resolve the issue in the discussion page this user proceeded to begin an edit war by re-reverting back to his recent undone changes and reported me without any prior discussion or attempt at dispute resolution." -Cetamata
Now how does this match up with the timeline?
Cetamata ( talk) 10:15, 25 February 2010 (UTC)
So this is way delayed. I did not notice the pint on my talk page until a few minutes ago. I know you were super stressed and saw that you were not going to be active. I did see your name pop up a week or so ago on my watchlist so hope you are at least not to pissed off. Regardless, it is almost criminal where I am from to not cheers or repay the favor. Best wishes to you if you are off of Wikipedia. Cheers (drinking a Redhook ESB as I type this)
Cptnono (
talk) has bought you a pint! Sharing a pint is a great way to bond with other editors after a day of hard work. Spread the
WikiLove by buying someone else a pint, whether it be someone with whom you have collaborated or had disagreements. Cheers!
Cptnono ( talk) 06:49, 17 March 2010 (UTC)
I hear you. The only suggestion I have is being more assertive. Send them a message saying "hey use the talk page instead of edit summaries". Many editors are just poking around and assume a discussion isn't needed since they assume their changes are correct. A quick friendly note might be all it takes. Of course if the other editor starts reverting try asking for a third opinion at Wikipedia:Third opinion or opening an Wikipedia:Requests for comment. I have to say I completely agree with you here. The sources lump them together and they are all related. This really shouldn't be a question as far as I can tell. Cptnono ( talk) 17:32, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
Whaling only includes the hunting of baleen whales, the sperm whale, and a few of the larger species of beaked whales. Seeing as how pilot whales are in the dolphin family, they should NOT be included in a page on whaling in Iceland. And please, none of that "all cetaceans are whales" nonsense. The definition becomes useless when you state it that way.
And Roys's whaling was more akin to open-boat American whaling in general during that period, as they both used explosive projectiles (depending on the species and region, of course). The way he processed the oil differed somewhat, but it was still open-boat whaling in every sense of the term. They weren't using modern catcher boats with harpoon guns mounted on their bows but simply towing some whaleboats behind steamers- steamers which didn't actually DO any of the catching. How exactly is that modern? Jonas Poole ( talk) 16:44, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
Continue Discussion here.
Look here -- TheSeer ( Talkˑ Contribs) 10:24, 14 September 2010 (UTC)
Hi. When you recently edited Whaling in Japan, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Heavy oil ( check to confirm | fix with Dab solver). Such links are almost always unintended, since a disambiguation page is merely a list of "Did you mean..." article titles. Read the FAQ • Join us at the DPL WikiProject.
It's OK to remove this message. Also, to stop receiving these messages, follow these opt-out instructions. Thanks, DPL bot ( talk) 10:17, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
Hi,
You appear to be eligible to vote in the current
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Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia
arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose
site bans,
topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The
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review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on
the voting page. For the Election committee,
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talk) 14:07, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
Hello, Cetamata. Voting in the 2016 Arbitration Committee elections is open from Monday, 00:00, 21 November through Sunday, 23:59, 4 December to all unblocked users who have registered an account before Wednesday, 00:00, 28 October 2016 and have made at least 150 mainspace edits before Sunday, 00:00, 1 November 2016.
The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.
If you wish to participate in the 2016 election, please review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. MediaWiki message delivery ( talk) 22:08, 21 November 2016 (UTC)