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I am shocked to find that this page on the view of the alleged genocide against the Palestinians ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/?title=Genocide_against_Palestinians&oldid=1179969952) has been replaced and merged into this page. As mentioned by others above, allegations of genocide simply do not just fall under allegations of apartheid and the magnitude of such accusations mean that it should have its own page. Pro-Israel editors seem to have also removed most claims that Israel has committed or is committing a genocide and instead reversed them. Such claims are interesting and perhaps true in some ways, but they should not overshadow the claims against Israel. As a result, the current section on genocide below is heavily biased and one-sided. This is wrong and frankly disrespectful and disturbing. I suggest that the page ‘Genocide against Palestinians’ be restored, and that a page representing more of the other side of the argument, e.g ‘Genocide against Israelis’, could be created.
Here is the section of heavy bias:
After the rise of Islamic fundamentalist groups as political forces in the region, some scholars and pundits began using the language of genocide in discussing the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, both to describe calls for the destruction of Israel and the indiscriminate killing of civilians by Hamas and other Palestinian extremist groups, and also to describe the cumulative effect of Israeli policies in the Gaza Strip. In 2000, the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights reported being "shocked by calls broadcast on Palestinian television and radio urging the killing of all Jews." Some human rights organizations and policy makers called out the commitment to destruction and violence against Jews in the Hamas Charter as incitement to genocide.
After the Israeli disengagement from Gaza in 2005 and the electoral success of Hamas, some of these concerns about genocide perpetrated by Hamas were attributed to the actions of Gaza as a whole. Since then spokespeople for both Israel and Palestine frequently accuse the other of planning a scheme of genocide. During spikes in violence in the conflict, some scholars have described attacks by Hamas as illegal under the Genocide Convention, and others such as New Historian Ilan Pappéhave compared retaliation by Israel and its overall policies in the Gaza Strip as a form of genocide, often broadening the term beyond the definitions of that convention. Scientelensia ( talk) 09:40, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Perhaps somewhere in the lede there should be a link to "Israel". I mean.... 38.73.253.217 ( talk) 03:04, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
Why you have deleted my edit? You have provided the explanation: "In article body, controversial, inappropriate for the lead".
This is already mentioned in the article: In December 2019, the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination announced commencing a review of the Palestinian complaint that Israel's policies in the West Bank amount to apartheid. Soon afterwards, two Israeli human rights NGOs, Yesh Din (July 2020), and B'Tselem (January 2021) issued separate reports that concluded, in the latter's words, that "the bar for labeling the Israeli regime as apartheid has been met." In April 2021, Human Rights Watch became the first major international human rights body to say Israel had crossed the threshold. It accused Israel of apartheid, and called for prosecution of Israeli officials under international law, calling for an International Criminal Court investigation. Amnesty International issued a report with similar findings on 1 February 2022.
So, my edit: "In 2017, a report by the UN Economic and Social Commission for Western Asia concluded that Israel is "guilty of the crime of apartheid"." is not starting some new topic but provides additional information for what it is already said.
Keeping in mind this, I don't see how providing information from the UN Economic and Social Commission for Western Asia is "controversial" and why it is "inappropriate for the lead" when there are already information in the article about international and Israeli organizations claiming that Israel is an apartheid state ( Zdravko mk ( talk) 17:31, 11 November 2023 (UTC)) Selfstudier ( talk) 17:50, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
Lede is focused more on the issue of "debates" which doesn't really summarize the body that focuses on the details of apartheid system. Makeandtoss ( talk) 15:37, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
The first sentence in the lead does not add anything. I propose we remove it. "Israel's policies and actions in its ongoing occupation of the Palestinian territories have drawn accusations that it is committing the crime of apartheid."
The first paragraph would then become: "Leading Palestinian, Israeli and international human rights groups have said that the totality and severity of the human rights violations against the Palestinian population in the occupied territories, and by some in Israel proper, amount to the crime against humanity of apartheid. Israel and some of its Western allies have rejected the accusation, with the former often labeling the charge antisemitic." DMH223344 ( talk) 03:35, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
References
Selfstudier ( talk) 17:17, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
This edit simply ignores the fact that two separate sources with quotes supporting weaponization of antisemitism in the context of apartheid accusations were added in support of the statement made and that it is therefore entirely appropriate to wikilink that statement to Weaponization of antisemitism. The newly added refs were not reverted, if the reverting editor agrees with the refs then it is difficult to see what is wrong with the wikilink. Selfstudier ( talk) 16:19, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
"Israel and some of its Western allies have rejected the accusation, with Israel often labeling the charge antisemitic."? Firefangledfeathers ( talk / contribs) 17:01, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
|
Should the lead include or remove the wikilink to
Weaponization of antisemitism in the line "Israel and some of its Western allies have rejected the accusation, with Israel often
labeling the charge antisemitic."
?
Firefangledfeathers (
talk /
contribs) 13:55, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
"Israel and some of its Western allies have rejected the accusation, with Israel often labeling the charge antisemitic(in the lede, no wikilinking)
"X, Y and Z consider the accusations of antisemitism to be an example of weaponization of antisemitism(not in the lede, because the lede should summarise the article). Alaexis ¿question? 20:16, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
. I frankly do not understand such misplaced comments such as shoehorning, soapboxing, fringe in the given context, it is a perfectly valid wikilink for the given sentence (or for the suggested one or for any other consensus wording). Selfstudier ( talk) 11:09, 27 April 2024 (UTC)Attempts by Israel and some of its Western allies to dismiss accusations of apartheid as antisemitic have been denounced as a way of silencing legitimate criticism.
The link was first added on 7 April 2024 ( diff), followed by many back-and-forth reverts and the above discussion. Pinging editors involved in the editing or discussion: @ GLORIOUSEXISTENCE, ElLuzDelSur, Makeandtoss, Alaexis, Selfstudier, האופה, RolandR, Galamore, and Kashmiri. Firefangledfeathers ( talk / contribs) 14:03, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
Gitz ( talk) ( contribs) 14:38, 26 April 2024 (UTC)Proponents of the concept generally posit that in the late 20th and early 21st centuries much of what is purported to be criticism of Israel is in fact tantamount to demonization, and that [...] such demonization represents an evolution in the appearance of antisemitic beliefs. Proponents argue that anti-Zionism and demonization of Israel, or double standards applied to its conduct [...] may be linked to antisemitism, or constitute disguised antisemitism, particularly when emanating simultaneously from the far-left, Islamism, and the far-right
with Israel often labeling the charge antisemitic, that link should point to the way Israel understands "antisemitism" (criticism of Israel = antisemitism), not to the way Israel's critics understand the charge of antisemitism (charging AI of antisemitism = weaponizing antisemitism). Gitz ( talk) ( contribs) 15:08, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
Gitz ( talk) ( contribs) 15:40, 26 April 2024 (UTC)Attempts by Israel and some of its Western allies to dismiss accusations of apartheid as antisemitic have been denounced as a way of silencing legitimate criticism.
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Israel and apartheid article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43Auto-archiving period: 2 months |
Discussions on this page often lead to previous arguments being restated. Please read recent comments and look in the archives before commenting. |
Warning: active arbitration remedies The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:
Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.
|
The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information. |
Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute. |
For a list of references that may be useful when improving this article in the future, please see Talk:Allegations of Israeli apartheid/RS. |
This article has previously been nominated to be moved.
Discussions:
|
Israel and apartheid ( final version) received a peer review by Wikipedia editors, which on 17 June 2006 was archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article. |
This article was nominated for
deletion. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination:
|
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article has been
mentioned by multiple media organizations:
|
I am shocked to find that this page on the view of the alleged genocide against the Palestinians ( https://en.m.wikipedia.org/?title=Genocide_against_Palestinians&oldid=1179969952) has been replaced and merged into this page. As mentioned by others above, allegations of genocide simply do not just fall under allegations of apartheid and the magnitude of such accusations mean that it should have its own page. Pro-Israel editors seem to have also removed most claims that Israel has committed or is committing a genocide and instead reversed them. Such claims are interesting and perhaps true in some ways, but they should not overshadow the claims against Israel. As a result, the current section on genocide below is heavily biased and one-sided. This is wrong and frankly disrespectful and disturbing. I suggest that the page ‘Genocide against Palestinians’ be restored, and that a page representing more of the other side of the argument, e.g ‘Genocide against Israelis’, could be created.
Here is the section of heavy bias:
After the rise of Islamic fundamentalist groups as political forces in the region, some scholars and pundits began using the language of genocide in discussing the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, both to describe calls for the destruction of Israel and the indiscriminate killing of civilians by Hamas and other Palestinian extremist groups, and also to describe the cumulative effect of Israeli policies in the Gaza Strip. In 2000, the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights reported being "shocked by calls broadcast on Palestinian television and radio urging the killing of all Jews." Some human rights organizations and policy makers called out the commitment to destruction and violence against Jews in the Hamas Charter as incitement to genocide.
After the Israeli disengagement from Gaza in 2005 and the electoral success of Hamas, some of these concerns about genocide perpetrated by Hamas were attributed to the actions of Gaza as a whole. Since then spokespeople for both Israel and Palestine frequently accuse the other of planning a scheme of genocide. During spikes in violence in the conflict, some scholars have described attacks by Hamas as illegal under the Genocide Convention, and others such as New Historian Ilan Pappéhave compared retaliation by Israel and its overall policies in the Gaza Strip as a form of genocide, often broadening the term beyond the definitions of that convention. Scientelensia ( talk) 09:40, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Perhaps somewhere in the lede there should be a link to "Israel". I mean.... 38.73.253.217 ( talk) 03:04, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
Why you have deleted my edit? You have provided the explanation: "In article body, controversial, inappropriate for the lead".
This is already mentioned in the article: In December 2019, the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination announced commencing a review of the Palestinian complaint that Israel's policies in the West Bank amount to apartheid. Soon afterwards, two Israeli human rights NGOs, Yesh Din (July 2020), and B'Tselem (January 2021) issued separate reports that concluded, in the latter's words, that "the bar for labeling the Israeli regime as apartheid has been met." In April 2021, Human Rights Watch became the first major international human rights body to say Israel had crossed the threshold. It accused Israel of apartheid, and called for prosecution of Israeli officials under international law, calling for an International Criminal Court investigation. Amnesty International issued a report with similar findings on 1 February 2022.
So, my edit: "In 2017, a report by the UN Economic and Social Commission for Western Asia concluded that Israel is "guilty of the crime of apartheid"." is not starting some new topic but provides additional information for what it is already said.
Keeping in mind this, I don't see how providing information from the UN Economic and Social Commission for Western Asia is "controversial" and why it is "inappropriate for the lead" when there are already information in the article about international and Israeli organizations claiming that Israel is an apartheid state ( Zdravko mk ( talk) 17:31, 11 November 2023 (UTC)) Selfstudier ( talk) 17:50, 11 November 2023 (UTC)
Lede is focused more on the issue of "debates" which doesn't really summarize the body that focuses on the details of apartheid system. Makeandtoss ( talk) 15:37, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
The first sentence in the lead does not add anything. I propose we remove it. "Israel's policies and actions in its ongoing occupation of the Palestinian territories have drawn accusations that it is committing the crime of apartheid."
The first paragraph would then become: "Leading Palestinian, Israeli and international human rights groups have said that the totality and severity of the human rights violations against the Palestinian population in the occupied territories, and by some in Israel proper, amount to the crime against humanity of apartheid. Israel and some of its Western allies have rejected the accusation, with the former often labeling the charge antisemitic." DMH223344 ( talk) 03:35, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
References
Selfstudier ( talk) 17:17, 22 March 2024 (UTC)
This edit simply ignores the fact that two separate sources with quotes supporting weaponization of antisemitism in the context of apartheid accusations were added in support of the statement made and that it is therefore entirely appropriate to wikilink that statement to Weaponization of antisemitism. The newly added refs were not reverted, if the reverting editor agrees with the refs then it is difficult to see what is wrong with the wikilink. Selfstudier ( talk) 16:19, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
"Israel and some of its Western allies have rejected the accusation, with Israel often labeling the charge antisemitic."? Firefangledfeathers ( talk / contribs) 17:01, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
|
Should the lead include or remove the wikilink to
Weaponization of antisemitism in the line "Israel and some of its Western allies have rejected the accusation, with Israel often
labeling the charge antisemitic."
?
Firefangledfeathers (
talk /
contribs) 13:55, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
"Israel and some of its Western allies have rejected the accusation, with Israel often labeling the charge antisemitic(in the lede, no wikilinking)
"X, Y and Z consider the accusations of antisemitism to be an example of weaponization of antisemitism(not in the lede, because the lede should summarise the article). Alaexis ¿question? 20:16, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
. I frankly do not understand such misplaced comments such as shoehorning, soapboxing, fringe in the given context, it is a perfectly valid wikilink for the given sentence (or for the suggested one or for any other consensus wording). Selfstudier ( talk) 11:09, 27 April 2024 (UTC)Attempts by Israel and some of its Western allies to dismiss accusations of apartheid as antisemitic have been denounced as a way of silencing legitimate criticism.
The link was first added on 7 April 2024 ( diff), followed by many back-and-forth reverts and the above discussion. Pinging editors involved in the editing or discussion: @ GLORIOUSEXISTENCE, ElLuzDelSur, Makeandtoss, Alaexis, Selfstudier, האופה, RolandR, Galamore, and Kashmiri. Firefangledfeathers ( talk / contribs) 14:03, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
Gitz ( talk) ( contribs) 14:38, 26 April 2024 (UTC)Proponents of the concept generally posit that in the late 20th and early 21st centuries much of what is purported to be criticism of Israel is in fact tantamount to demonization, and that [...] such demonization represents an evolution in the appearance of antisemitic beliefs. Proponents argue that anti-Zionism and demonization of Israel, or double standards applied to its conduct [...] may be linked to antisemitism, or constitute disguised antisemitism, particularly when emanating simultaneously from the far-left, Islamism, and the far-right
with Israel often labeling the charge antisemitic, that link should point to the way Israel understands "antisemitism" (criticism of Israel = antisemitism), not to the way Israel's critics understand the charge of antisemitism (charging AI of antisemitism = weaponizing antisemitism). Gitz ( talk) ( contribs) 15:08, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
Gitz ( talk) ( contribs) 15:40, 26 April 2024 (UTC)Attempts by Israel and some of its Western allies to dismiss accusations of apartheid as antisemitic have been denounced as a way of silencing legitimate criticism.