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One of the sources I found suggests that its not just Nazi victories which are popular in alternate history, but WWII pods in general. That makes some sense when you consider such works as the Worldwar series, the Axis of Time series, Command & Conquer: Red Alert and its sequels, the Days of Infamy series, The Iron Dream, Marching Through Georgia (novel), The Plot Against America, the Settling Accounts series (see also World War II in Timeline-191), The Yiddish Policemen's Union, etc. Zombie Hunter Smurf ( talk) 15:43, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Another editor has (correctly) removed this item:
As it is uncited and is making a specific claim, it shouldn't remain as is. However, this film does actually belong as an example as there is a huge body of scholarly work dealing with the Nazi/fascistic elements in the film--whether these elements are overt, satirical, faithful to the book, misreading the book, etc. is the gist of the debate. I don't have time to work on it at this time but I thought I'd leave it here as something to be worked on. freshacconci talktalk 15:12, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
Should we replace the map used here with this map (and caption) from Greater Germanic Reich? Emmette Hernandez Coleman ( talk) 21:01, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
-
the article states Axis, not German reich. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.238.24.223 ( talk) 17:27, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
How possible an Axis victory is, is a subject of much debate. I think this merits a section. Das Beta ( talk) 13:24, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
A more plausible Axis victory, one that has yet to be created, involves the Good Guys and Bad Guys largely inverted with groups like the KKK ruling America, the BUF ruling Britain, and Vichy leaders in the real world ruling France while Germany maintains democracy and Japan becomes fully democratic. It's impossible to redeem Stalin, but keeping him on the side of an evil Britain and an evil America in an alternative universe gives some parallels. India breaks from Britain as the BUF overthrows the Windsor monarchy (a parallel is to Brazil splitting from Portugal).
The difference? Germany has the Jews on its side, and hence better technology that includes V-weapons that can be launched from submarines at the oil refineries of Houston and the tank factories of Detroit. Do you want the visionary super weapons? Keep the Jews on good terms with Germany and its allies (including eventually Churchill and De Gaulle), and Germany gets jet fighters that cause coastal defenses of the KKK-dominated USA to wither.
The Nazi and Japanese Evil Empires lost the war because of their mistreatment of innocent people. Without that mistreatment the Germans conquer the Soviet Union, and the Japanese are able to pacify Australia and New Zealand (they get the role of Italy) quickly by ensuring that the conquered people have no cause to resist. The Soviet Union, convinced that India is ripe for the taking, gets mauled badly there, and loses the resources of troops and materiel necessary for defeating Germany in Europe and Japan in eastern Asia.
Horrible? Sure. That is war. Pbrower2a ( talk) 21:23, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
Addendum: this scenario paradoxically comes much closer in some respects to the real world that we now know. Pbrower2a ( talk) 03:47, 28 September 2021 (UTC)
This article title is absurd and has been put on an article about the Greater Germanic Reich as if this is a fact. This article is wasted space, either put it into something on alternative history fictions or delete it.-- R-41 ( talk) 23:39, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
I think Pax Germanica fails to show it's own notability as a stand alone term, and should be merged into this article. Ping major contributors and interested parties: User:DGG, User:Volunteer Marek, User:Sijo Ripa, User:Alex1011, User:Adam Keller, User:Zombie Hunter Smurf. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:26, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
References
This section is unsourced and appears to be dubious. I suggest removing this section. Would there be any objections? K.e.coffman ( talk) 04:28, 25 May 2016 (UTC)
I've cleaned up some unsourced trivia & red links. Please let me know of any feedback / concerns. K.e.coffman ( talk) 20:07, 25 June 2016 (UTC)
The sentence, "...but the Nazi/Japanese Cold War has also resulted in an accelerated nuclear arms race relative to our own world," is incorrect, as only the Germans had invented nuclear weapons at the time of the novel, and where a pre-emptive strike on Japan would have not been retaliated against. Freakdog ( talk) 22:35, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
I have exchanged the world map which shows the background situation from "The Man in the High Castle" by using the map which is now shown in the article about this novel. Gernsback67 ( talk) 14:28, 2 August 2019 (UTC)
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The title says "Hypothetical Axis Victory in World War II" but instead of showing potential territorial changes, it has a list of Alt-history books. I propose changing the entire article to make it more informative about the ACTUAL possible outcomes of an Axis Victory. (Note:if no one is willing to enact my proposals within 1 Month, then I shall do so myself.)re DemocraticSocialism ( talk) 02:58, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
I made a new section on the real-life ambitions of the Axis Powers. If you find any problems, feel free to fix them or contact me and I'll fix them myself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DemocraticSocialism ( talk • contribs) 05:15, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
This is a rare subject, not being based on any factual events, the books about this can't be evaluated on the usual criteria of Wikipedia. It gives a list of books, most of which have not earned it's own page which then would be subject to the norms of this website. The introduction is fine and I approve of having this article as it is Arodb ( talk) 20:27, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
Went the Day Well is not about an Axis victory but about the effect of a German invasion on a small English town. The German attackers (an Otto Skorzeny type commando unit in British uniforms) are stopped and in the epilogue it is clear that the invasion was defeated and the British had won the war. I suggest deleting that reference. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amcalabrese ( talk • contribs) 18:53, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
the fatherland map, is incorrect as the greater germanic reich is not included, also this map shows a partial nazi victory not a axis total victory as this article is about, replacing with irl map ie none of available maps are accurate, this article is about an axis victory, in the lead it says "Axis powers of Germany, Italy, and JAPAN won World War II." also in the fatherland map japan LOST THE WAR also it is inaccurate as it does not include the greater germanic reich, where is the Pax Japonica in the fatherland map that is the reliably sourced lede? please no original research which also contradicts this article Gooduserdude ( talk) 06:27, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
I removed this section as it is unsourced. The text is below:
This may or may not be accurate, but it is certainly speculation. As it's speculation, I'm not sure how we could source it for inclusion. Perhaps some of it, such as the fact that the Allies economies vastly outmatched the Axis, could be sourced, but that Japan would 'probably lose control of China in 1950 at latest' seems entirely speculative. -- Shimbo ( talk) 10:14, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
I have removed one map, as reproduced here, supposed to describe the geopolitical world of The Man in the High Castle. It is minutely more precise than what the book actually contains and is almost entirely speculative. I replaced it by the only map available in Commons which is not involving original research: a map of the territory of the United States as it is described in the book.-- Sapphorain ( talk) 21:15, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
Gooduserdude ( talk) 11:01, 29 March 2022 (UTC)
References
Objections arose after the removal of the map per WP:OR. Several maps were also proposed, as well as no map at all. Two questions: (1) Is original research tolerable in this context? (2) Which map, if any, would be appropriate?-- Sapphorain ( talk) 11:25, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Fatherland.png -- 2804:248:f677:f300:4b3:a2a4:dec6:1482 ( talk) 03:37, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
So far, an agreement has yet to be reached on what map or other image should be placed on the article lead, I would like to make some proposals:
1. The world map based on The Man in the High Castle, which was recently removed:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_Man_in_the_High_Castle_Plausible_World_Map.png
2. A world map based on Fatherland:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Fatherland.png
3. Another map based on Fatherland, but this time of Europe only, this was the one originally in the lead:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Fatherland%27s_1964_Europe.jpg
4. A model of the Volkshalle, which was to be built if Germany won:
5. A broader model of "Germania", the planned rebuilding of Berlin:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bundesarchiv_Bild_146III-373,_Modell_der_Neugestaltung_Berlins_(%22Germania%22).jpg -- 2804:248:f650:6600:8130:c3c8:4384:a9b6 ( talk) 03:26, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
Recently there was controversy over what map or other image, if any, should be placed in the article's lead, eventually an RfC was held, with the conclusion that there was consensus against the proposed maps due to concerns over original research, but given that the only users who took part in it were ones who were already involved in the dispute, I thought it was appropriate to at least have further discussion on this issue.
I made some proposals which were already mentioned above:
Other suggestions would be welcomed. -- 2804:248:f650:6600:86f:165c:bba5:8f4 ( talk) 03:35, 13 August 2022 (UTC) 22:42, 11 July 2022 (UTC) 04:51, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
One of the sources I found suggests that its not just Nazi victories which are popular in alternate history, but WWII pods in general. That makes some sense when you consider such works as the Worldwar series, the Axis of Time series, Command & Conquer: Red Alert and its sequels, the Days of Infamy series, The Iron Dream, Marching Through Georgia (novel), The Plot Against America, the Settling Accounts series (see also World War II in Timeline-191), The Yiddish Policemen's Union, etc. Zombie Hunter Smurf ( talk) 15:43, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
Another editor has (correctly) removed this item:
As it is uncited and is making a specific claim, it shouldn't remain as is. However, this film does actually belong as an example as there is a huge body of scholarly work dealing with the Nazi/fascistic elements in the film--whether these elements are overt, satirical, faithful to the book, misreading the book, etc. is the gist of the debate. I don't have time to work on it at this time but I thought I'd leave it here as something to be worked on. freshacconci talktalk 15:12, 5 April 2012 (UTC)
Should we replace the map used here with this map (and caption) from Greater Germanic Reich? Emmette Hernandez Coleman ( talk) 21:01, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
-
the article states Axis, not German reich. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.238.24.223 ( talk) 17:27, 28 July 2014 (UTC)
How possible an Axis victory is, is a subject of much debate. I think this merits a section. Das Beta ( talk) 13:24, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
A more plausible Axis victory, one that has yet to be created, involves the Good Guys and Bad Guys largely inverted with groups like the KKK ruling America, the BUF ruling Britain, and Vichy leaders in the real world ruling France while Germany maintains democracy and Japan becomes fully democratic. It's impossible to redeem Stalin, but keeping him on the side of an evil Britain and an evil America in an alternative universe gives some parallels. India breaks from Britain as the BUF overthrows the Windsor monarchy (a parallel is to Brazil splitting from Portugal).
The difference? Germany has the Jews on its side, and hence better technology that includes V-weapons that can be launched from submarines at the oil refineries of Houston and the tank factories of Detroit. Do you want the visionary super weapons? Keep the Jews on good terms with Germany and its allies (including eventually Churchill and De Gaulle), and Germany gets jet fighters that cause coastal defenses of the KKK-dominated USA to wither.
The Nazi and Japanese Evil Empires lost the war because of their mistreatment of innocent people. Without that mistreatment the Germans conquer the Soviet Union, and the Japanese are able to pacify Australia and New Zealand (they get the role of Italy) quickly by ensuring that the conquered people have no cause to resist. The Soviet Union, convinced that India is ripe for the taking, gets mauled badly there, and loses the resources of troops and materiel necessary for defeating Germany in Europe and Japan in eastern Asia.
Horrible? Sure. That is war. Pbrower2a ( talk) 21:23, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
Addendum: this scenario paradoxically comes much closer in some respects to the real world that we now know. Pbrower2a ( talk) 03:47, 28 September 2021 (UTC)
This article title is absurd and has been put on an article about the Greater Germanic Reich as if this is a fact. This article is wasted space, either put it into something on alternative history fictions or delete it.-- R-41 ( talk) 23:39, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
I think Pax Germanica fails to show it's own notability as a stand alone term, and should be merged into this article. Ping major contributors and interested parties: User:DGG, User:Volunteer Marek, User:Sijo Ripa, User:Alex1011, User:Adam Keller, User:Zombie Hunter Smurf. -- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 03:26, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
References
This section is unsourced and appears to be dubious. I suggest removing this section. Would there be any objections? K.e.coffman ( talk) 04:28, 25 May 2016 (UTC)
I've cleaned up some unsourced trivia & red links. Please let me know of any feedback / concerns. K.e.coffman ( talk) 20:07, 25 June 2016 (UTC)
The sentence, "...but the Nazi/Japanese Cold War has also resulted in an accelerated nuclear arms race relative to our own world," is incorrect, as only the Germans had invented nuclear weapons at the time of the novel, and where a pre-emptive strike on Japan would have not been retaliated against. Freakdog ( talk) 22:35, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
I have exchanged the world map which shows the background situation from "The Man in the High Castle" by using the map which is now shown in the article about this novel. Gernsback67 ( talk) 14:28, 2 August 2019 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Hypothetical Axis victory in World War II. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 10:54, 7 April 2017 (UTC)
The title says "Hypothetical Axis Victory in World War II" but instead of showing potential territorial changes, it has a list of Alt-history books. I propose changing the entire article to make it more informative about the ACTUAL possible outcomes of an Axis Victory. (Note:if no one is willing to enact my proposals within 1 Month, then I shall do so myself.)re DemocraticSocialism ( talk) 02:58, 24 April 2017 (UTC)
I made a new section on the real-life ambitions of the Axis Powers. If you find any problems, feel free to fix them or contact me and I'll fix them myself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DemocraticSocialism ( talk • contribs) 05:15, 17 August 2017 (UTC)
This is a rare subject, not being based on any factual events, the books about this can't be evaluated on the usual criteria of Wikipedia. It gives a list of books, most of which have not earned it's own page which then would be subject to the norms of this website. The introduction is fine and I approve of having this article as it is Arodb ( talk) 20:27, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
Went the Day Well is not about an Axis victory but about the effect of a German invasion on a small English town. The German attackers (an Otto Skorzeny type commando unit in British uniforms) are stopped and in the epilogue it is clear that the invasion was defeated and the British had won the war. I suggest deleting that reference. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Amcalabrese ( talk • contribs) 18:53, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
the fatherland map, is incorrect as the greater germanic reich is not included, also this map shows a partial nazi victory not a axis total victory as this article is about, replacing with irl map ie none of available maps are accurate, this article is about an axis victory, in the lead it says "Axis powers of Germany, Italy, and JAPAN won World War II." also in the fatherland map japan LOST THE WAR also it is inaccurate as it does not include the greater germanic reich, where is the Pax Japonica in the fatherland map that is the reliably sourced lede? please no original research which also contradicts this article Gooduserdude ( talk) 06:27, 15 October 2020 (UTC)
I removed this section as it is unsourced. The text is below:
This may or may not be accurate, but it is certainly speculation. As it's speculation, I'm not sure how we could source it for inclusion. Perhaps some of it, such as the fact that the Allies economies vastly outmatched the Axis, could be sourced, but that Japan would 'probably lose control of China in 1950 at latest' seems entirely speculative. -- Shimbo ( talk) 10:14, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
I have removed one map, as reproduced here, supposed to describe the geopolitical world of The Man in the High Castle. It is minutely more precise than what the book actually contains and is almost entirely speculative. I replaced it by the only map available in Commons which is not involving original research: a map of the territory of the United States as it is described in the book.-- Sapphorain ( talk) 21:15, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
Gooduserdude ( talk) 11:01, 29 March 2022 (UTC)
References
Objections arose after the removal of the map per WP:OR. Several maps were also proposed, as well as no map at all. Two questions: (1) Is original research tolerable in this context? (2) Which map, if any, would be appropriate?-- Sapphorain ( talk) 11:25, 5 April 2022 (UTC)
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Fatherland.png -- 2804:248:f677:f300:4b3:a2a4:dec6:1482 ( talk) 03:37, 6 April 2022 (UTC)
So far, an agreement has yet to be reached on what map or other image should be placed on the article lead, I would like to make some proposals:
1. The world map based on The Man in the High Castle, which was recently removed:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:The_Man_in_the_High_Castle_Plausible_World_Map.png
2. A world map based on Fatherland:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Fatherland.png
3. Another map based on Fatherland, but this time of Europe only, this was the one originally in the lead:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Fatherland%27s_1964_Europe.jpg
4. A model of the Volkshalle, which was to be built if Germany won:
5. A broader model of "Germania", the planned rebuilding of Berlin:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bundesarchiv_Bild_146III-373,_Modell_der_Neugestaltung_Berlins_(%22Germania%22).jpg -- 2804:248:f650:6600:8130:c3c8:4384:a9b6 ( talk) 03:26, 10 June 2022 (UTC)
Recently there was controversy over what map or other image, if any, should be placed in the article's lead, eventually an RfC was held, with the conclusion that there was consensus against the proposed maps due to concerns over original research, but given that the only users who took part in it were ones who were already involved in the dispute, I thought it was appropriate to at least have further discussion on this issue.
I made some proposals which were already mentioned above:
Other suggestions would be welcomed. -- 2804:248:f650:6600:86f:165c:bba5:8f4 ( talk) 03:35, 13 August 2022 (UTC) 22:42, 11 July 2022 (UTC) 04:51, 11 June 2022 (UTC)