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The term, "Greater Iran" has always been recognized and respected by scholars and historians. Greater Iran is the area where the Persian culture to this day still dominates. This article must be kept intact and expanded on. As it is a different issue than "Iranian Langauges" this article must remain.
I suggest delete for this article. It is not a recognized term in the context of cultural background as the article claims. Google search brings up 14 sources, out of which:
So out of 14 sources, 6 are geological, 4 do not contain the exact phrase, 2 from Wikipedia, and 2 are not academic (one about cinema, and one some religious stuff). Hence I strongly recommend to delete this article due to lack of evidence, or it can be re-written in the context of geology. Heja Helweda 18:16, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
Agree D iyako Talk + 02:00, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
Dude, I dont know about China but go look at a geological map of Pakistan and you'll see that half the country lies on the Iranian plateau. The country spoke Persian as recently as the 19th century before the British abolished it and encouraged the spread of non-iranian culture. The country also has an estimated population of 35 million people of Iranic origin such as Tajik, Baloch, Kurds and Pashtun. Additionally, Pakistan was part of the Achemenid empire contributed greatly in the form of tax to the royal revenues of Xerxes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.119.45.76 ( talk) 18:32, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
Dear all, I started this page based on encyclopedia iranica. The original title of the article was :Iranian cultural continent or Iranian continent. This is an academic term used by the encyclopedia which is by now the highest ranking Iranology project. Please contact Pejman Akbarzadeh or any other associates of the encyclopedia if you have any question. -- Mensen09:35, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
If in Iranica it is referred to as "Iranian continent", then perhaps we should rename it back to that, as it is the most authorative academic source on the matter -- Kash 00:31, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
We need a map, like the other articles have (e.g. Greater Israel or Greater Syria of Greater Austria).-- Zereshk 04:27, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
I'll be on it :) -- Kash 21:37, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
Do any of the "Greater" regions listed in the "See also" section actually have any connection to Greater Iran besides in name? If not, they need to be removed. -- InShaneee 22:31, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
Great article but I am not really in favor of the maps, especially the second one, it does not look like the Greater Iran to me but simply a map of Persian Empire. That is not what greater Iran means. Here we have countries that were never part of Iran/greater Iran; rather they were occupied by the Iranian army. I think the map gives the wrong idea. It might make some readers think that by Greater Iran we simply mean the land that were once under the rule of Iranian leaders. I suggest removing it. Gol 07:54, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
That map is temporary of course. We'll replace it.-- Zereshk 21:26, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
An article, Iranian nations was nominated for deletion. The article was not deleted, but it has been suggested that it be merged here. The AFD discussion for that article has been archived here. Sjakkalle (Check!) 10:42, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
National Geographic talks about this concept as do a lot of European institutions. Can anyone find any sources? 69.196.139.250 05:01, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
The idea of “Greater Iran”, was first promoted by the Pan-Iranist ultra-nationalist party of Pahlavi (mid 1940s). This was natural extension of Nazi ideology that caused abdication of the Reza Shah, following his support for Nazi Germany. Non of authoritative sources would entertain this idea as a serious subject. Till 14th century there was no real country or region called Iran. The name Iran was mentioned in Persian epic of Shahnameh as a mythical country along with anther mythical country called Turan. Safavids dynasty, in trying to build an empire used these and other elements such as Shiat religious sects to make a unify nation made of Persians, Turks, Kurds, Arabs, Turkmen, Baluch, Armenians to name few.
It is sad to see that few ultra right nationalist, in trying to promote their political view, soil the good character of all Iranians as some Arian loving racists.
As an Iranian, I support deletion of this article, or at least changing the content to a brief presentation of the short history for this term. md 12:25, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
I would like to attract your attentions to the scanned page of the book "The Persians", by Gene R. Garthwaite who Zereshk loaded to this discussion page. Just beneath the bright red outline and a line before that it mentions "Interestingly Achaemenians appear not to have had a general designation for the whole ... empire" (can't read the doted word or two. Part of the text cleverly covered by the bright colour as it was not helping Zereshk's argument. This text proves that the name Iran was not used to designate a real country or empire before at the time Achaemenians. Now regarding the Sasanians this text is an evidence that the term Iran , same as Persian, is a Greek (3rd century BC) term "The designation Iran was used by the Greek historian, Erastothens " and not a name given by natives of the land. "Sasanians however called core of their empire Iranshahr" then the writer translates the "shahr" to "empire", where as this is more like the extension of the same Greek word designating a city as "city of Iran". The word shahr ("city" in modern Farsi) has no affinity with the word "Emperaturiامپراطوری " a word derived from Latin. md 17:34, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
Somebody here said that they had seen
Encyclopedia Iranica talk about the "Iranian cultural continent". Could that person please provide me reference so I can also see that source? Thanx again.--
Zereshk 00:42, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
Was this area also a part of Iran Zamin (Kuwait, Qatar, UAE, North Oman, Bahrain, Saudi coast, etc...)? Even today, many can trace their roots back to Iranians and specifically Persians (Qatar, Bahrain, UAE, Kuwait, northern Oman, and even in Yemen). Khosrow II 00:29, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
According to the present article, the term Greater Iran applies to the entire region where Iranian languages are today spoken as a first language, or as a second language by a significant minority. Obviously based on the above definition, Armenia and Georgia are NOT parts of this region. So the question is why they have been included in the map? Heja Helweda 22:13, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
I think that the article's name should be changed to Iranian Cultural Continent. Any comments? Tājik 00:33, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
Although too many Iranians in the USA live with the idea that Iran and Persia are the same, they are not. In fact there is no country called Persia. There are no evidences that there has been once an independent Persia either. Persia was a tributary/ or part of Median empire. Before that time it is generally believed to be part of the Elamian kingdom. The mis-usage of persia instead of iran stems from the fact that the capital of Iran during Achamenid was in Perisa (Ostan-e Fars), and according to the Greek historical tradition of city -states the name of a capital was given to the surrounding areas. So the fact that the capital was called Parse-kade (persepolis) (Takhte Jamshid is only the popular belives), then the whole empire was called as such. Then the Arabs and Westneres adpated the same reason. TRhe Old testament of Bible has used Median/Persian interchangeably and the Iranians themselves have always used Iran (and not persia or any other names) for this country. Babakexorramdin 10:55, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
Yes according to a popular theory Croats belive that they stem from ancient Iranian tribes (Sramathians most probably), the same theory says more or less that also Serbs and Bosnians are from this tribe. see this http://www.magma.ca/~rendic/chapter1.htm there dozens of srticles and books about this. A Romanian friend also once told me that there is a theory that the ancient Dacians of Romania were Iranians. I have not read it anywere but it makes sense, because as Ukraine (Scythia) was an Iranian land and they were also found in the Balkans so Romania most probably has been too. Also remember when Darius went to fight with the Scythians (Iranians) he crossed Danube (the border between the contemporary Bulgaria and Romania), while if there were no Scythians (Iranians) in Romania, then he could attack the scythians Via Central Asia or the Caucasus! He also pointed to some artifacts of Dacians which resembled those of Scythians. Anyway. Another people who you should not forget are the Jaszy of Hungary. As the name suggests they are releated to the Ossetians. In fact they are Alans who entered this region (Central Hungary). They have already forgotten their language but are still or (were for a long time) aware of their ethnicity. It is debated whether or not Armenians are Iranians. The Armenian language is very close to the Iranian languages. Things are similar which could not be said that they are taken over from (other) Iranian languages. Most probably Armenian is a separate branch of the Iranian languages (next to the west eg. persian, Kurdish etc... and East eg. Ossetian, Pamir etc...). Addinf to that the Armenian aristocracy and kings have been of parthian origins. So You can consider them as Iranian peoples or not. Most Armenians however do not like to be related to Iranians and a lot I have encountered are very hostile to Iranians. The main reason is the religiosu difference, not knowing that Ossetians (who do not deny their Iranianness)are also Orthodox Christians. Having said this Georgians who are a Kartvelian people have assimilated many ossetians (Alans) in them. Moreover the georgian ancient kings and aristocracy have been of Parthian origins too. So maybe you can only mention this without listing it. Babakexorramdin 12:52, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
Iranian World for the name of this article is a legitimate one. There are a lot of Worlds which are less legitimate: 1- The Western world= It is too diverse and to vast with a very fragmented culture and political sphere 2- The Arab world: it is only based on the Arabic language. imposed pon so many non-Arab peoples who do not understand each other properly and moreover they are in value cultural terms very different. A lebanse or Egyptian is culturally too different from a Qatari or Saudi. 3- Turkish/ic world. This term is promoted by Anti-Iranianist agents. However it is true that there are a variety of Turkicspeaking people in the region, they nevertheless try to bring all these under the influence of turkey (whcih should be ruled by extremist elements). These Turkic peoples have not been part of the Ottoman empire however. Moreover Turkey and Iran are not antagonistic countries. They share a similar culture and are in friendly terms. Another fact is that the Turkic peoples who share cultural similarities, they do it also with non-Turkicspeaking Iranic people. Those Turkic peoples who did not come close to the Iranic people are distinct (Yakut, Chuvash etc...).
All and all if there are other worlds, the Iranian world sounds only more legitimate than the other ones. -- Babakexorramdin 12:47, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
"Afghanistani Tajiks" -wikipedia finds 84 hits. "Afghan Tajiks" -wikipedia finds 632 hits.
This is an English language encyclopedia, and we need to use what is most commonly used. Kingturtle ( talk) 20:24, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Afghanistani literally means "from Afghanistan". The suffix "i" at the end of a country name means from that country. This is analogous to Pakistani, Uzbekistani, Tajikistani... etc.
Afghanistani is an English word according to Princeton University. HuaijinYang ( talk) 05:03, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
In the lead, the article said Greater Iran "[corresponded to] the two Persian Empires (Achaemenid and Sassanid)".
This is not correct. Greater Iran is a cultural concept, not a political one.
Greater Iran does not include Northeast Africa (Egypt) or the Near East (Western Mediterranean, the Pontus, the Levant, the Arabian peninsula, Babylonia). And yet these were all at one time or another part of one or both empires, and Babylonia is even where both the Achaemenids and Sassanids had their capitals.
On further examination, I found sections on Iraq/Armenia (and to an extent also other Caucasus stuff) coatracked onto this article. This may be a remnant of the confusion of state and nation, and/or the projection of "Persian Empire" yadda yadda onto this article. While cultural influence on these territories did exist, these were brief, and those regions are not traditionally included in Greater Iran (e.g. one will not find studies on them in the Cambridge History of Iran beyond issues of government). To include Iraq and Armenia in Greater Iran just because those regions were briefly ruled by Iranians is like including Iran in the Magna Graecia just because it was briefly ruled by Greeks. Its simply not appropriate. The Caucasus subsection needs to be generally more circumspect; the Iranian peoples (or speakers of an Iranian language) do not represent a majority there, and the supposed Iranian cultural influence is not so significant as is being suggested. (The title of the cited Iranica article is also [incidentally?] false. It is not "Caucasus Iran", but "Caucasus and Iran").
Aside from the state-vs-nation confusion, it seems that there have also been a couple of mindless chipmunks at work here. In the caption of an image lower down on the page, Iranian plateau has been designated "Persian plateau". I don't think "One pill to make them bigger, and one pill to make them small" works for topography, and unless someone in official capacity has since decided to confuse matters, the Persian plateau remains the upper arch of the Iranian plateau that stretches from Luristan to Golestan (particularly clear in this image). This confusion appears to stem from an edit to 'Iranian plateau' ( 30 Nov 2007) in which someone screwed up what should have otherwise been clear. Will fix.
I will try to make the distinction between nation and state even clearer by an addition of a second lead paragraph. But I'll leave the fixing of the Caucasus/Iraq bits to someone else. -- Fullstop ( talk) 01:21, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
It seems as if Iran's historical significance has gone to people's heads. A few statements to set everything straight: Afghanistan, Iran, and Iraq formed the core of Persia. None of them are superior in any way to each other. Persia was great. Iran is not, nor will it ever be if the people don't learn to live in the present and not the past. "Greater Iran" should be changed to "Greater Persia". Afghanistan and Iran have the same language, there is only a few minor differences between the dialects. I'd wager most people who are fluent in farsi can understand the afghani dialects. Fighting over who won wars and who is the older nation is pointless and childish. A civilization thats 100,000 years old is not necessarily superior to one who is 50,000 years old and debating superiority is also counter-productive - Wikipedia is not a place to rant about how great your ancestors are. Thefifthlord ( talk) 17:55, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
The term " Greater Persia" redirects to this article. Because this is true, the article must introduce or explain the term. If there is a difference between "Greater Iran" and "Greater Persia", the difference should be described. Binksternet ( talk) 15:38, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
The first sentence of the article should appear like this:
Greater Iran (in Persian: ایران بزرگ Irān-e Bozorg, or ایرانزمین Irānzamīn "Iranian soil"; also known as Greater Persia or Iranian Cultural Continent) refers to the regions that have significant Iranian cultural influence.
After their first appearance, the terms in bold can be explained in the article body. The "Iranian Cultural Continent" can be described as coming from its source encyclopedia, and "Greater Persia" can be described as a term sometimes used in English to mean the same thing as Greater Iran. Binksternet ( talk) 13:41, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
This information has been added to the entry without adding any source. It seems more a "personal view" on the subject.
["greater Persia" is common in English] Because the concept is a cultural one, representing regions settled by Iranian tribes, it does not correspond to any particular political entity, and—because it represents a late Bronze Age dispersion—predates such political entities by many centuries. For the Sassanids, in whose 3rd century inscriptions the term 'Iran' first appears as a political concept, the multinational Iranian state included Asia Minor but excluded territories east of the two Iranian salt desert basins. This situation is however reversed in the cultural context, i.e. that of the Iranian nation.
As far as it has been mentioned in all encyclopedias and historical/geographical documents, in Western languages, Iran was called "Persia" since 6th century BC until 1935. This article also is an "English" article. Yes in Sassanian period, the name "Iran" was appeared in the texts, but in the Persian texts, not Western texts. So using this example in not right here.
It's much more better that we (as a neutral source) present what is a "fact" and leave our personal ideas for our own articles. I mean, not adding descriptions to the entries which there is no source for that. --Shayan7 16:49, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
I advise Shayan 7 (Pejmen Akbarzadeh) and other associates with radio Zamaneh stop vandalizing all Iranian-related articles. Iran has been Iran since the Sasanid time. Take it or leave it. I know you get discriminated in the Netherlands if you say you are from Iran, but this has nothing to do with wikipedia.-- Babakexorramdin ( talk) 14:33, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
Some editors are adding certain sources in support of the claim "Greater Iran is also referred to as Greater Persia". None of these source state that. It is Original Research to use these sources which do use the term Greater Persia to support a completely different claim that Greater Persia = Greater Iran in these sources. I would like to see English language reliable sources which states explicitly that "Greater Iran is also referred to as Greater Persia". My revert is because of do not add or claim whatever that is not explicitly stated by the sources you use. Xashaiar ( talk) 21:04, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
The problem we have here is because of three different phenomena: 1) Iranian nationals who think of this article as something which only serves their racial dominance. I think that's why we have not distinctively defined the difference between the "Greater Iran" and "Iranian Cultural Continent". This article is not about a race or a country, it's about a culture, which still exists among central Asians, Iraqis and Turkish people. So I suggest for it title to be changed to "Iranian Cultural Continent" as some have already suggested. 2) Many people here are not aware of the distinction between "Persian People" and "Iranian People". And many many others are not aware of the difference between being among the "Iranian People" and practicing "Iranian Culture"-al elements. As an example, kurds are an Iranian People, so anything identified with them, is directly an aspect of the Iranian culture. On the other hand, the very many concepts in the Turkish or central asian music are originally Iranian, although those who use them today are not. That's the definition of the Iranian Cultural Continent. 3) Intellectuals in arab, turkish and afghan societies tend to downplay the influence of Iranian culture and completely dismiss it's importance. I think that it's best exhibited among Turks, which are champions in forgetting their past and overstating their turkish heritage. They deny their mostly anatolian ancestry, they deny the great number of Iranian people living within their territory, the influence of Persian on their language, and anybody who knows how they take care of monuments and archeological sites knows that Greek, Byzantines, Phrygian, Persian and Armenian sites receive less care than their Ottoman counterparts (regardless of how ancient they are). This goes to the extremes, one account being the recent dam constructions in Turkey which virtually made great sites inaccessible forever. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hazratemahmood ( talk • contribs) 10:28, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
It is such nonsense to say that Georgia is part of Greater Iran just because it was under its control for a period of time. Georgia has nothing in common with Iran, language, ethnic origin, or culture. If being conquered counts then it is also part of "Greater Byzantium/Greece" which one must admit had a more profound effect on its culture than anything. And Eastern Georgia was not "historically attached to the south for support." In fact, eastern Georgia was so fed up with fighting off the invading Persians that they voluntarily signed the Treaty of Georgievsk which was used by Russia as a pretext for annexing the lands. King Erekle (Heraclius) II of Eastern Georgia did this because he thought that although losing sovereignty was bad, being part of the Christian world would save the Georgian culture from imminent destruction.-- 141.161.58.224 ( talk) 21:35, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
Choresmia was part of Greater Khorasan, also some sources claim Choresmia outside of Chorasan. But the fact that they are known as Iranians and not as Turanians and beeing follower of Zarathustra is one proof, Al-Biruni self claimed Choresmians as a branch of Persian and part of Greater Iran in Greater Khorasan. Interestingly, Sogdia, which is undoubtly part of historical Khorasan and a centre of Iranian identity, specially after the islamic conquest, was known for many centuries as Land of Turanians. Please, correct some of your claims. -- 84.59.184.224 ( talk) 21:04, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
So any areas conquered through military force by Persia at one point in time or another become part of greater Iran? This article seems to be flawed on many levels. Let's take for example Iraq. It was ruled by the Ottomans for much longer than the Persians, so does it become part of greater Turkey? The Greeks through Alexander the Great ruled the entire area including Persia, so should the entire Near East become part of greater Greece?
How about the Arabs. They ruled Persia for hundreds of years. It is Arab culture that is today dominant in Iran from peoples names, to influence on language, script, etc. Does Iran become part of greater Arabia?
This article is ultranationilistic and racist in nature.
Please consider deleting. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.229.67.184 ( talk) 21:19, 7 September 2013 (UTC)
>>>This article is about a culture and a language.I am sure It is not about the race.DNA test may prove much of Middle_east population are indo-iranians but who cares? let's care about the culture which Iranian-people made in over 4000 years in this area. that is "greater Iran" -- 171.99.96.54 ( talk) 09:09, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
I've limited my editing to fixing a couple obvious errors introduced by this edit, but I have doubts about it's overall value. I'm far from an expert on the region (hence the limited edit of obvious problems), but the edit seems heavily biased toward placing Iraq as the center of Greater Iran. I also have doubts about the multiple large scale deletions of referenced information. Lastly, some of the additions made could use editing to make them flow better. Jelloman ( talk) 16:33, 15 February 2014 (UTC)
Why are Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan included in Greater Iran? They speak Turkic languages. -- Vitzque ( talk) 07:23, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
If you had read the article you would understand why they are included. -- Mossadegh-e Mihan-dust ( talk) 13:49, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
This article should be retained as an example of the ultranationalism/ethnocentristic egoism that pervades some national and/or ethnic groups. The concept of a "Greater Iran" is in line with the concept under Hitler and the Nazis and other German ultranationalists going back to the 19th century that any land touched by German feet or influenced in any way by German culture was a part of "Greater Germany", to be reclaimed and ruled by Germans for Germans. Other examples that have created wars and political/economic/social unrest are "Greater Russia", "Greater Serbia", I also find it interesting that an article on the distribution of Iranian culture uses the later Persian language with Arabic text as the visual representation of a langauage imported into the area now called Iran by the Sassanid Persians and heavily impacted over time by Turkish and Arabic influences. Of course, Iran should really be part of a "Greater Arabia" given that the surge of Arab tribes in the "Great Jihad" destroyed the Sassanid Empire and converted the area to a non-Iranian religion, Islam, which uses Arabic langauge and text as its ecumenical device for communicating the word of God (Allah). The idea that there is a single continuous cultural, political and social heritage between the Persia of Darius and Xerxes and the Parthians and the Sassanid Persians and the Islamic caliphates ruled from Quom and Teheran is as ridiculous as the parade of the "Persian Army" put on by the Shah back in the 1970s. Exltcmts ( talk) 19:41, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
Khajidha removed the reference to Persia adopting Iran as its new name in 1935 creating a missing link and misinformation in the article. At this point, the article lists all the countries which were part of Greater Iran but Iran. The information is clear enough but he/she thinks that the text implies that Reza Shah named the region of "Greater Iran" to "Iran" which even a layman can understand that that is not the case. I tried my best to adjust the text to clarify it further from the original text but it seemed unsatisfactory to him/her. So, i am opening this thread as i disagree with current state of the article with that information removed. Sheriff | report | 19:29, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
Okay, let's start with this sentence: "The Turkmanchey Treaty of 1828, after the Russo-Persian War (1826-1828) permanently severed the Caucasian provinces from Iran, which had made part of its concept for centuries,[16] and forced Iran to cede modern-day Armenia, Azerbaijan and minor parts of Eastern Turkey, and settled the modern boundary along the Aras River.[17]" Can someone explain to me why it is necessary to mention the "Caucasian provinces" collectively AND "Armenia, Azerbaijan and minor parts of Eastern Turkey" individually? Aren't those last three included in the Caucasus? The phrase "which had made part of its concept for centuries" is rather poorly worded, I am not sure what point is trying to be made here. -- Khajidha ( talk) 15:55, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
Different parts of Georgia have been under the influence and/or rule of various empires for centuries and Georgia cannot be considered part of "Greater Iran" any more than it is a part of Greater Russia, "Greater Turkey", "Greater Mongolia", or any other type of neo-imperialistic construct one may think of. Georgia shares no language, no religion and no ethnic ties with Iran. The only reason there are even Georgians living in Iran is because they were moved there by brutal Iranian rulers as part of an effort to weaken and subjugate Georgia.
Besides Iran, for centuries Georgians were under the influence and/or rule of Arabs, and Romans , and Khazars, and Ottomans, and Mongols, and Russians ...So how does Iranian influence give it ownership of Georgia as part of the Iranian world, particularly when they are so many other powers that had comparable influence? Why "Greater Iran" and not "Greater Turkey" or "Greater Greece"? After all, cities on the entire coast of Western Georgia were founded as Greek colonies.
Worst of all, this nebulous neo-imperialistic article is not adequately sourced. In fact, the Georgian section is not sourced at all and it is just bla bla bla that someone concocted off the top of his head to make Georgia seem little more than an Iranian province. Such content should be challenged and removed.-- Damianmx ( talk) 03:24, 25 December 2015 (UTC) <-- CU blocked sock of User:Satt 2
Take a look at this talk page, it is riddled with similar problems that have been raised over the course of years and yet the article is still a poorly sourced Pan-Iranian imperialistic propaganda. This material had to be sourced before it was inserted, not after. Unsourced material should be challenged and removed.
Your insistence that Persia is somehow more special than Turks or Mongols is just another confirmation of your narrow Iranian worldview. The notion that Persia exported culture but others merely caused destruction is an arrogant and factually unfounded opinion. Persians did a great amount of pillaging, massacring and destruction and nothing makes it "better" or more related to Georgia than any other conqueror that has crossed their path.
Lastly, since you love to use Wikipedia jargon and legalese, how about you read WP:Original Research. Even if you were to somehow source individual leap-of-faith assertions made about Georgia or Armenia on this page, this selective synthesis would still remain nothing more than Pan-Iranian original research. Anyone could concoct a page like this for any country if they put together enough scraps of disparate information. -- Damianmx ( talk) 19:13, 25 December 2015 (UTC) <-- CU blocked sock of User:Satt 2
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It might be worth noting in the captions that the maps are of the empires at their greatest extent, rather than there typical extent. In some cases the difference is minor, but in others the difference is significant. In the case of the Sassanid Empire, for example, the maximum extent is substantially larger than the territory the empire usually held and the maximum was only obtained for about 20 years in the middle of a war. So it's a poor indication of where Iranian cultural influence is strong. I'm not saying it is necessarily inappropriate to show the empires at their peak, just that it should be clearly indicated that that is what is being done. This might offset some of the other criticisms of the page in the talk section that the page is an Iranian nationalistic project. That said, I'm reluctant to make the changes myself for fear of setting off an edit war (28 Nov 2017). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.96.28.47 ( talk) 14:21, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Greater Iran's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "Gignoux_Aneran":
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Western Georgia was never part of the Afsharid or Qajar empire. 149.3.83.160 ( talk) 11:43, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
The article should be changed from Greater Iran to Greater Persia. Arianam or Ariana is not refered to Persis. The region in Avesta is modern day Afghanistan, easter Iran and southern Transoxiana. The article is not neutral and hangs around history of Persia. Aceditor00 ( talk) 11:18, 17 October 2023 (UTC) https://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/aryans/airyanavaeja.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aceditor00 ( talk • contribs) 11:23, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
The Iranian world should be mentioned , it sound more fitting describe and in conjunction with Arab world . 188.70.10.192 ( talk) 13:48, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
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The term, "Greater Iran" has always been recognized and respected by scholars and historians. Greater Iran is the area where the Persian culture to this day still dominates. This article must be kept intact and expanded on. As it is a different issue than "Iranian Langauges" this article must remain.
I suggest delete for this article. It is not a recognized term in the context of cultural background as the article claims. Google search brings up 14 sources, out of which:
So out of 14 sources, 6 are geological, 4 do not contain the exact phrase, 2 from Wikipedia, and 2 are not academic (one about cinema, and one some religious stuff). Hence I strongly recommend to delete this article due to lack of evidence, or it can be re-written in the context of geology. Heja Helweda 18:16, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
Agree D iyako Talk + 02:00, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
Dude, I dont know about China but go look at a geological map of Pakistan and you'll see that half the country lies on the Iranian plateau. The country spoke Persian as recently as the 19th century before the British abolished it and encouraged the spread of non-iranian culture. The country also has an estimated population of 35 million people of Iranic origin such as Tajik, Baloch, Kurds and Pashtun. Additionally, Pakistan was part of the Achemenid empire contributed greatly in the form of tax to the royal revenues of Xerxes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.119.45.76 ( talk) 18:32, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
Dear all, I started this page based on encyclopedia iranica. The original title of the article was :Iranian cultural continent or Iranian continent. This is an academic term used by the encyclopedia which is by now the highest ranking Iranology project. Please contact Pejman Akbarzadeh or any other associates of the encyclopedia if you have any question. -- Mensen09:35, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
If in Iranica it is referred to as "Iranian continent", then perhaps we should rename it back to that, as it is the most authorative academic source on the matter -- Kash 00:31, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
We need a map, like the other articles have (e.g. Greater Israel or Greater Syria of Greater Austria).-- Zereshk 04:27, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
I'll be on it :) -- Kash 21:37, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
Do any of the "Greater" regions listed in the "See also" section actually have any connection to Greater Iran besides in name? If not, they need to be removed. -- InShaneee 22:31, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
Great article but I am not really in favor of the maps, especially the second one, it does not look like the Greater Iran to me but simply a map of Persian Empire. That is not what greater Iran means. Here we have countries that were never part of Iran/greater Iran; rather they were occupied by the Iranian army. I think the map gives the wrong idea. It might make some readers think that by Greater Iran we simply mean the land that were once under the rule of Iranian leaders. I suggest removing it. Gol 07:54, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
That map is temporary of course. We'll replace it.-- Zereshk 21:26, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
An article, Iranian nations was nominated for deletion. The article was not deleted, but it has been suggested that it be merged here. The AFD discussion for that article has been archived here. Sjakkalle (Check!) 10:42, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
National Geographic talks about this concept as do a lot of European institutions. Can anyone find any sources? 69.196.139.250 05:01, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
The idea of “Greater Iran”, was first promoted by the Pan-Iranist ultra-nationalist party of Pahlavi (mid 1940s). This was natural extension of Nazi ideology that caused abdication of the Reza Shah, following his support for Nazi Germany. Non of authoritative sources would entertain this idea as a serious subject. Till 14th century there was no real country or region called Iran. The name Iran was mentioned in Persian epic of Shahnameh as a mythical country along with anther mythical country called Turan. Safavids dynasty, in trying to build an empire used these and other elements such as Shiat religious sects to make a unify nation made of Persians, Turks, Kurds, Arabs, Turkmen, Baluch, Armenians to name few.
It is sad to see that few ultra right nationalist, in trying to promote their political view, soil the good character of all Iranians as some Arian loving racists.
As an Iranian, I support deletion of this article, or at least changing the content to a brief presentation of the short history for this term. md 12:25, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
I would like to attract your attentions to the scanned page of the book "The Persians", by Gene R. Garthwaite who Zereshk loaded to this discussion page. Just beneath the bright red outline and a line before that it mentions "Interestingly Achaemenians appear not to have had a general designation for the whole ... empire" (can't read the doted word or two. Part of the text cleverly covered by the bright colour as it was not helping Zereshk's argument. This text proves that the name Iran was not used to designate a real country or empire before at the time Achaemenians. Now regarding the Sasanians this text is an evidence that the term Iran , same as Persian, is a Greek (3rd century BC) term "The designation Iran was used by the Greek historian, Erastothens " and not a name given by natives of the land. "Sasanians however called core of their empire Iranshahr" then the writer translates the "shahr" to "empire", where as this is more like the extension of the same Greek word designating a city as "city of Iran". The word shahr ("city" in modern Farsi) has no affinity with the word "Emperaturiامپراطوری " a word derived from Latin. md 17:34, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
Somebody here said that they had seen
Encyclopedia Iranica talk about the "Iranian cultural continent". Could that person please provide me reference so I can also see that source? Thanx again.--
Zereshk 00:42, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
Was this area also a part of Iran Zamin (Kuwait, Qatar, UAE, North Oman, Bahrain, Saudi coast, etc...)? Even today, many can trace their roots back to Iranians and specifically Persians (Qatar, Bahrain, UAE, Kuwait, northern Oman, and even in Yemen). Khosrow II 00:29, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
According to the present article, the term Greater Iran applies to the entire region where Iranian languages are today spoken as a first language, or as a second language by a significant minority. Obviously based on the above definition, Armenia and Georgia are NOT parts of this region. So the question is why they have been included in the map? Heja Helweda 22:13, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
I think that the article's name should be changed to Iranian Cultural Continent. Any comments? Tājik 00:33, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
Although too many Iranians in the USA live with the idea that Iran and Persia are the same, they are not. In fact there is no country called Persia. There are no evidences that there has been once an independent Persia either. Persia was a tributary/ or part of Median empire. Before that time it is generally believed to be part of the Elamian kingdom. The mis-usage of persia instead of iran stems from the fact that the capital of Iran during Achamenid was in Perisa (Ostan-e Fars), and according to the Greek historical tradition of city -states the name of a capital was given to the surrounding areas. So the fact that the capital was called Parse-kade (persepolis) (Takhte Jamshid is only the popular belives), then the whole empire was called as such. Then the Arabs and Westneres adpated the same reason. TRhe Old testament of Bible has used Median/Persian interchangeably and the Iranians themselves have always used Iran (and not persia or any other names) for this country. Babakexorramdin 10:55, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
Yes according to a popular theory Croats belive that they stem from ancient Iranian tribes (Sramathians most probably), the same theory says more or less that also Serbs and Bosnians are from this tribe. see this http://www.magma.ca/~rendic/chapter1.htm there dozens of srticles and books about this. A Romanian friend also once told me that there is a theory that the ancient Dacians of Romania were Iranians. I have not read it anywere but it makes sense, because as Ukraine (Scythia) was an Iranian land and they were also found in the Balkans so Romania most probably has been too. Also remember when Darius went to fight with the Scythians (Iranians) he crossed Danube (the border between the contemporary Bulgaria and Romania), while if there were no Scythians (Iranians) in Romania, then he could attack the scythians Via Central Asia or the Caucasus! He also pointed to some artifacts of Dacians which resembled those of Scythians. Anyway. Another people who you should not forget are the Jaszy of Hungary. As the name suggests they are releated to the Ossetians. In fact they are Alans who entered this region (Central Hungary). They have already forgotten their language but are still or (were for a long time) aware of their ethnicity. It is debated whether or not Armenians are Iranians. The Armenian language is very close to the Iranian languages. Things are similar which could not be said that they are taken over from (other) Iranian languages. Most probably Armenian is a separate branch of the Iranian languages (next to the west eg. persian, Kurdish etc... and East eg. Ossetian, Pamir etc...). Addinf to that the Armenian aristocracy and kings have been of parthian origins. So You can consider them as Iranian peoples or not. Most Armenians however do not like to be related to Iranians and a lot I have encountered are very hostile to Iranians. The main reason is the religiosu difference, not knowing that Ossetians (who do not deny their Iranianness)are also Orthodox Christians. Having said this Georgians who are a Kartvelian people have assimilated many ossetians (Alans) in them. Moreover the georgian ancient kings and aristocracy have been of Parthian origins too. So maybe you can only mention this without listing it. Babakexorramdin 12:52, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
Iranian World for the name of this article is a legitimate one. There are a lot of Worlds which are less legitimate: 1- The Western world= It is too diverse and to vast with a very fragmented culture and political sphere 2- The Arab world: it is only based on the Arabic language. imposed pon so many non-Arab peoples who do not understand each other properly and moreover they are in value cultural terms very different. A lebanse or Egyptian is culturally too different from a Qatari or Saudi. 3- Turkish/ic world. This term is promoted by Anti-Iranianist agents. However it is true that there are a variety of Turkicspeaking people in the region, they nevertheless try to bring all these under the influence of turkey (whcih should be ruled by extremist elements). These Turkic peoples have not been part of the Ottoman empire however. Moreover Turkey and Iran are not antagonistic countries. They share a similar culture and are in friendly terms. Another fact is that the Turkic peoples who share cultural similarities, they do it also with non-Turkicspeaking Iranic people. Those Turkic peoples who did not come close to the Iranic people are distinct (Yakut, Chuvash etc...).
All and all if there are other worlds, the Iranian world sounds only more legitimate than the other ones. -- Babakexorramdin 12:47, 19 August 2007 (UTC)
"Afghanistani Tajiks" -wikipedia finds 84 hits. "Afghan Tajiks" -wikipedia finds 632 hits.
This is an English language encyclopedia, and we need to use what is most commonly used. Kingturtle ( talk) 20:24, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
Afghanistani literally means "from Afghanistan". The suffix "i" at the end of a country name means from that country. This is analogous to Pakistani, Uzbekistani, Tajikistani... etc.
Afghanistani is an English word according to Princeton University. HuaijinYang ( talk) 05:03, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
In the lead, the article said Greater Iran "[corresponded to] the two Persian Empires (Achaemenid and Sassanid)".
This is not correct. Greater Iran is a cultural concept, not a political one.
Greater Iran does not include Northeast Africa (Egypt) or the Near East (Western Mediterranean, the Pontus, the Levant, the Arabian peninsula, Babylonia). And yet these were all at one time or another part of one or both empires, and Babylonia is even where both the Achaemenids and Sassanids had their capitals.
On further examination, I found sections on Iraq/Armenia (and to an extent also other Caucasus stuff) coatracked onto this article. This may be a remnant of the confusion of state and nation, and/or the projection of "Persian Empire" yadda yadda onto this article. While cultural influence on these territories did exist, these were brief, and those regions are not traditionally included in Greater Iran (e.g. one will not find studies on them in the Cambridge History of Iran beyond issues of government). To include Iraq and Armenia in Greater Iran just because those regions were briefly ruled by Iranians is like including Iran in the Magna Graecia just because it was briefly ruled by Greeks. Its simply not appropriate. The Caucasus subsection needs to be generally more circumspect; the Iranian peoples (or speakers of an Iranian language) do not represent a majority there, and the supposed Iranian cultural influence is not so significant as is being suggested. (The title of the cited Iranica article is also [incidentally?] false. It is not "Caucasus Iran", but "Caucasus and Iran").
Aside from the state-vs-nation confusion, it seems that there have also been a couple of mindless chipmunks at work here. In the caption of an image lower down on the page, Iranian plateau has been designated "Persian plateau". I don't think "One pill to make them bigger, and one pill to make them small" works for topography, and unless someone in official capacity has since decided to confuse matters, the Persian plateau remains the upper arch of the Iranian plateau that stretches from Luristan to Golestan (particularly clear in this image). This confusion appears to stem from an edit to 'Iranian plateau' ( 30 Nov 2007) in which someone screwed up what should have otherwise been clear. Will fix.
I will try to make the distinction between nation and state even clearer by an addition of a second lead paragraph. But I'll leave the fixing of the Caucasus/Iraq bits to someone else. -- Fullstop ( talk) 01:21, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
It seems as if Iran's historical significance has gone to people's heads. A few statements to set everything straight: Afghanistan, Iran, and Iraq formed the core of Persia. None of them are superior in any way to each other. Persia was great. Iran is not, nor will it ever be if the people don't learn to live in the present and not the past. "Greater Iran" should be changed to "Greater Persia". Afghanistan and Iran have the same language, there is only a few minor differences between the dialects. I'd wager most people who are fluent in farsi can understand the afghani dialects. Fighting over who won wars and who is the older nation is pointless and childish. A civilization thats 100,000 years old is not necessarily superior to one who is 50,000 years old and debating superiority is also counter-productive - Wikipedia is not a place to rant about how great your ancestors are. Thefifthlord ( talk) 17:55, 30 November 2008 (UTC)
The term " Greater Persia" redirects to this article. Because this is true, the article must introduce or explain the term. If there is a difference between "Greater Iran" and "Greater Persia", the difference should be described. Binksternet ( talk) 15:38, 18 April 2010 (UTC)
The first sentence of the article should appear like this:
Greater Iran (in Persian: ایران بزرگ Irān-e Bozorg, or ایرانزمین Irānzamīn "Iranian soil"; also known as Greater Persia or Iranian Cultural Continent) refers to the regions that have significant Iranian cultural influence.
After their first appearance, the terms in bold can be explained in the article body. The "Iranian Cultural Continent" can be described as coming from its source encyclopedia, and "Greater Persia" can be described as a term sometimes used in English to mean the same thing as Greater Iran. Binksternet ( talk) 13:41, 3 May 2010 (UTC)
This information has been added to the entry without adding any source. It seems more a "personal view" on the subject.
["greater Persia" is common in English] Because the concept is a cultural one, representing regions settled by Iranian tribes, it does not correspond to any particular political entity, and—because it represents a late Bronze Age dispersion—predates such political entities by many centuries. For the Sassanids, in whose 3rd century inscriptions the term 'Iran' first appears as a political concept, the multinational Iranian state included Asia Minor but excluded territories east of the two Iranian salt desert basins. This situation is however reversed in the cultural context, i.e. that of the Iranian nation.
As far as it has been mentioned in all encyclopedias and historical/geographical documents, in Western languages, Iran was called "Persia" since 6th century BC until 1935. This article also is an "English" article. Yes in Sassanian period, the name "Iran" was appeared in the texts, but in the Persian texts, not Western texts. So using this example in not right here.
It's much more better that we (as a neutral source) present what is a "fact" and leave our personal ideas for our own articles. I mean, not adding descriptions to the entries which there is no source for that. --Shayan7 16:49, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
I advise Shayan 7 (Pejmen Akbarzadeh) and other associates with radio Zamaneh stop vandalizing all Iranian-related articles. Iran has been Iran since the Sasanid time. Take it or leave it. I know you get discriminated in the Netherlands if you say you are from Iran, but this has nothing to do with wikipedia.-- Babakexorramdin ( talk) 14:33, 2 May 2010 (UTC)
Some editors are adding certain sources in support of the claim "Greater Iran is also referred to as Greater Persia". None of these source state that. It is Original Research to use these sources which do use the term Greater Persia to support a completely different claim that Greater Persia = Greater Iran in these sources. I would like to see English language reliable sources which states explicitly that "Greater Iran is also referred to as Greater Persia". My revert is because of do not add or claim whatever that is not explicitly stated by the sources you use. Xashaiar ( talk) 21:04, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
The problem we have here is because of three different phenomena: 1) Iranian nationals who think of this article as something which only serves their racial dominance. I think that's why we have not distinctively defined the difference between the "Greater Iran" and "Iranian Cultural Continent". This article is not about a race or a country, it's about a culture, which still exists among central Asians, Iraqis and Turkish people. So I suggest for it title to be changed to "Iranian Cultural Continent" as some have already suggested. 2) Many people here are not aware of the distinction between "Persian People" and "Iranian People". And many many others are not aware of the difference between being among the "Iranian People" and practicing "Iranian Culture"-al elements. As an example, kurds are an Iranian People, so anything identified with them, is directly an aspect of the Iranian culture. On the other hand, the very many concepts in the Turkish or central asian music are originally Iranian, although those who use them today are not. That's the definition of the Iranian Cultural Continent. 3) Intellectuals in arab, turkish and afghan societies tend to downplay the influence of Iranian culture and completely dismiss it's importance. I think that it's best exhibited among Turks, which are champions in forgetting their past and overstating their turkish heritage. They deny their mostly anatolian ancestry, they deny the great number of Iranian people living within their territory, the influence of Persian on their language, and anybody who knows how they take care of monuments and archeological sites knows that Greek, Byzantines, Phrygian, Persian and Armenian sites receive less care than their Ottoman counterparts (regardless of how ancient they are). This goes to the extremes, one account being the recent dam constructions in Turkey which virtually made great sites inaccessible forever. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hazratemahmood ( talk • contribs) 10:28, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
It is such nonsense to say that Georgia is part of Greater Iran just because it was under its control for a period of time. Georgia has nothing in common with Iran, language, ethnic origin, or culture. If being conquered counts then it is also part of "Greater Byzantium/Greece" which one must admit had a more profound effect on its culture than anything. And Eastern Georgia was not "historically attached to the south for support." In fact, eastern Georgia was so fed up with fighting off the invading Persians that they voluntarily signed the Treaty of Georgievsk which was used by Russia as a pretext for annexing the lands. King Erekle (Heraclius) II of Eastern Georgia did this because he thought that although losing sovereignty was bad, being part of the Christian world would save the Georgian culture from imminent destruction.-- 141.161.58.224 ( talk) 21:35, 11 January 2011 (UTC)
Choresmia was part of Greater Khorasan, also some sources claim Choresmia outside of Chorasan. But the fact that they are known as Iranians and not as Turanians and beeing follower of Zarathustra is one proof, Al-Biruni self claimed Choresmians as a branch of Persian and part of Greater Iran in Greater Khorasan. Interestingly, Sogdia, which is undoubtly part of historical Khorasan and a centre of Iranian identity, specially after the islamic conquest, was known for many centuries as Land of Turanians. Please, correct some of your claims. -- 84.59.184.224 ( talk) 21:04, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
So any areas conquered through military force by Persia at one point in time or another become part of greater Iran? This article seems to be flawed on many levels. Let's take for example Iraq. It was ruled by the Ottomans for much longer than the Persians, so does it become part of greater Turkey? The Greeks through Alexander the Great ruled the entire area including Persia, so should the entire Near East become part of greater Greece?
How about the Arabs. They ruled Persia for hundreds of years. It is Arab culture that is today dominant in Iran from peoples names, to influence on language, script, etc. Does Iran become part of greater Arabia?
This article is ultranationilistic and racist in nature.
Please consider deleting. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.229.67.184 ( talk) 21:19, 7 September 2013 (UTC)
>>>This article is about a culture and a language.I am sure It is not about the race.DNA test may prove much of Middle_east population are indo-iranians but who cares? let's care about the culture which Iranian-people made in over 4000 years in this area. that is "greater Iran" -- 171.99.96.54 ( talk) 09:09, 7 January 2014 (UTC)
I've limited my editing to fixing a couple obvious errors introduced by this edit, but I have doubts about it's overall value. I'm far from an expert on the region (hence the limited edit of obvious problems), but the edit seems heavily biased toward placing Iraq as the center of Greater Iran. I also have doubts about the multiple large scale deletions of referenced information. Lastly, some of the additions made could use editing to make them flow better. Jelloman ( talk) 16:33, 15 February 2014 (UTC)
Why are Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan included in Greater Iran? They speak Turkic languages. -- Vitzque ( talk) 07:23, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
If you had read the article you would understand why they are included. -- Mossadegh-e Mihan-dust ( talk) 13:49, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
This article should be retained as an example of the ultranationalism/ethnocentristic egoism that pervades some national and/or ethnic groups. The concept of a "Greater Iran" is in line with the concept under Hitler and the Nazis and other German ultranationalists going back to the 19th century that any land touched by German feet or influenced in any way by German culture was a part of "Greater Germany", to be reclaimed and ruled by Germans for Germans. Other examples that have created wars and political/economic/social unrest are "Greater Russia", "Greater Serbia", I also find it interesting that an article on the distribution of Iranian culture uses the later Persian language with Arabic text as the visual representation of a langauage imported into the area now called Iran by the Sassanid Persians and heavily impacted over time by Turkish and Arabic influences. Of course, Iran should really be part of a "Greater Arabia" given that the surge of Arab tribes in the "Great Jihad" destroyed the Sassanid Empire and converted the area to a non-Iranian religion, Islam, which uses Arabic langauge and text as its ecumenical device for communicating the word of God (Allah). The idea that there is a single continuous cultural, political and social heritage between the Persia of Darius and Xerxes and the Parthians and the Sassanid Persians and the Islamic caliphates ruled from Quom and Teheran is as ridiculous as the parade of the "Persian Army" put on by the Shah back in the 1970s. Exltcmts ( talk) 19:41, 14 October 2014 (UTC)
Khajidha removed the reference to Persia adopting Iran as its new name in 1935 creating a missing link and misinformation in the article. At this point, the article lists all the countries which were part of Greater Iran but Iran. The information is clear enough but he/she thinks that the text implies that Reza Shah named the region of "Greater Iran" to "Iran" which even a layman can understand that that is not the case. I tried my best to adjust the text to clarify it further from the original text but it seemed unsatisfactory to him/her. So, i am opening this thread as i disagree with current state of the article with that information removed. Sheriff | report | 19:29, 15 December 2015 (UTC)
Okay, let's start with this sentence: "The Turkmanchey Treaty of 1828, after the Russo-Persian War (1826-1828) permanently severed the Caucasian provinces from Iran, which had made part of its concept for centuries,[16] and forced Iran to cede modern-day Armenia, Azerbaijan and minor parts of Eastern Turkey, and settled the modern boundary along the Aras River.[17]" Can someone explain to me why it is necessary to mention the "Caucasian provinces" collectively AND "Armenia, Azerbaijan and minor parts of Eastern Turkey" individually? Aren't those last three included in the Caucasus? The phrase "which had made part of its concept for centuries" is rather poorly worded, I am not sure what point is trying to be made here. -- Khajidha ( talk) 15:55, 17 December 2015 (UTC)
Different parts of Georgia have been under the influence and/or rule of various empires for centuries and Georgia cannot be considered part of "Greater Iran" any more than it is a part of Greater Russia, "Greater Turkey", "Greater Mongolia", or any other type of neo-imperialistic construct one may think of. Georgia shares no language, no religion and no ethnic ties with Iran. The only reason there are even Georgians living in Iran is because they were moved there by brutal Iranian rulers as part of an effort to weaken and subjugate Georgia.
Besides Iran, for centuries Georgians were under the influence and/or rule of Arabs, and Romans , and Khazars, and Ottomans, and Mongols, and Russians ...So how does Iranian influence give it ownership of Georgia as part of the Iranian world, particularly when they are so many other powers that had comparable influence? Why "Greater Iran" and not "Greater Turkey" or "Greater Greece"? After all, cities on the entire coast of Western Georgia were founded as Greek colonies.
Worst of all, this nebulous neo-imperialistic article is not adequately sourced. In fact, the Georgian section is not sourced at all and it is just bla bla bla that someone concocted off the top of his head to make Georgia seem little more than an Iranian province. Such content should be challenged and removed.-- Damianmx ( talk) 03:24, 25 December 2015 (UTC) <-- CU blocked sock of User:Satt 2
Take a look at this talk page, it is riddled with similar problems that have been raised over the course of years and yet the article is still a poorly sourced Pan-Iranian imperialistic propaganda. This material had to be sourced before it was inserted, not after. Unsourced material should be challenged and removed.
Your insistence that Persia is somehow more special than Turks or Mongols is just another confirmation of your narrow Iranian worldview. The notion that Persia exported culture but others merely caused destruction is an arrogant and factually unfounded opinion. Persians did a great amount of pillaging, massacring and destruction and nothing makes it "better" or more related to Georgia than any other conqueror that has crossed their path.
Lastly, since you love to use Wikipedia jargon and legalese, how about you read WP:Original Research. Even if you were to somehow source individual leap-of-faith assertions made about Georgia or Armenia on this page, this selective synthesis would still remain nothing more than Pan-Iranian original research. Anyone could concoct a page like this for any country if they put together enough scraps of disparate information. -- Damianmx ( talk) 19:13, 25 December 2015 (UTC) <-- CU blocked sock of User:Satt 2
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It might be worth noting in the captions that the maps are of the empires at their greatest extent, rather than there typical extent. In some cases the difference is minor, but in others the difference is significant. In the case of the Sassanid Empire, for example, the maximum extent is substantially larger than the territory the empire usually held and the maximum was only obtained for about 20 years in the middle of a war. So it's a poor indication of where Iranian cultural influence is strong. I'm not saying it is necessarily inappropriate to show the empires at their peak, just that it should be clearly indicated that that is what is being done. This might offset some of the other criticisms of the page in the talk section that the page is an Iranian nationalistic project. That said, I'm reluctant to make the changes myself for fear of setting off an edit war (28 Nov 2017). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.96.28.47 ( talk) 14:21, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Greater Iran's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "Gignoux_Aneran":
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Western Georgia was never part of the Afsharid or Qajar empire. 149.3.83.160 ( talk) 11:43, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
The article should be changed from Greater Iran to Greater Persia. Arianam or Ariana is not refered to Persis. The region in Avesta is modern day Afghanistan, easter Iran and southern Transoxiana. The article is not neutral and hangs around history of Persia. Aceditor00 ( talk) 11:18, 17 October 2023 (UTC) https://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/aryans/airyanavaeja.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aceditor00 ( talk • contribs) 11:23, 17 October 2023 (UTC)
The Iranian world should be mentioned , it sound more fitting describe and in conjunction with Arab world . 188.70.10.192 ( talk) 13:48, 7 March 2024 (UTC)