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If a book or movie has a character who has been specifically diagnosed with BPD, including them in this section MIGHT be of benefit. But most of the characters listed are just people who "could have" BPD, based on the opinions of some viewers who may or may not be expert and who admit that the characters don't QUITE fit. How, exactly, is this any more encyclopedic or informative than the discussion my friends and I had last week, accompanied by 4 bottles of red wine, about whether George W. Bush really meets the definition of a sociopath?
As someone with BPD who has never harmed or threatened another person in her life, I am sick and tired of being compared with Alex from Fatal Attraction. When I tell men who are interested in me that I have BPD and they look it up online, guess what they see first? Would you include Jason from the Friday the 13th movies in the "Society and Culture" section on schizophrenia? It's just as valid.
Including this section is not only of questionable legitimacy, it furthers the stigmatization of people who, through no fault of their own, find themselves trying to manage this disorder. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.178.152.83 ( talk) 23:17, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
The book is one wwritten by a psychiatrist discussing films portraying psychiatric conditions. It is worth discussing them as they are popularly seen to represent teh condition, hence discussing them and discussing inaccuracies is important rather than ignoring. Casliber ( talk · contribs) 03:53, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
ps; for the record, the two examples removed I think I can source, however both are not great examples so I don't see them as a high priority. I felt that neither really encapsulated the syndrome well (however if someone else is desperate to source them...). Some secondary discussion is always good. Casliber ( talk · contribs) 21:39, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
I don't see anything to indicate that this book is not reliable, or that it is represents a minority opinion, or that its author is considered to be fringe. IP argues that this book has negative consequences for BPD sufferers...well, that's not relevant, unless IP can demonstrate that this viewpoint is not a mainstream view in the current psychological field. Let me go back to the IP's claim about "inferiority" of blacks in historical scientific literature. I would argue that, if Wikipedia had been written in the mid 1800s, it would, in fact, have been correct for Wikipedia to report that blacks are inferior according to the psychological literature of the time. Now, I don't agree with that claim, and neither did some others at the time. But Wikipedia's job is to summarize and repeat what reliable sources have said, not to make our own judgment about what is or isn't correct. If you have other reliable sources that you believe that can be added to the article to provide balance, then feel free to do so--articles are required to represent all relevant viewpoints in proportion to their relative importance. Alternatively, if you can show why this is not a reliable source, it can be removed. One thing you could do is ask at either [[WP:Wikiproject Psychology}the Psychology Wikiproject]] or at the reliable sources noticeboard. If either or both of those considered these to be unreliable sources, removing would then be appropriate. Qwyrxian ( talk) 01:35, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Add http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=when-passion-is-the-enemy [1] ? 99.155.146.1 ( talk) 01:00, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
I have been diagnosed with BPD twice in the last two years yet have been unable to obtain treatment or even direction as to what i need to do in order to get better. I'm tired of living like this and want desperately to get better. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.155.111.68 ( talk) 06:02, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
i too have been diagnosed with bpd and my family seems to think that i have multiple perosnalities. however i dont have the memory loss associated with it. i was just wondering can bpd manifest similarities? my husband even says my accents change when i talk and total different perosnatlites emerge. any info would help. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
69.176.22.196 (
talk) 21:36, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
I have removed your email addresses--never leave your email address on open boards on the internet. Please note that Talk pages are where we improve the article, not a place to ask general (forum-like) questions. I recommend contacting a healthcare professional, or, if you want other amateur's opinion, going to a website that specialized in hosting conversations between people with medical problems. Thanks, Qwyrxian ( talk) 22:22, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
on a scale of 1-10 how do the medical proffession and society in general view people with bpd,are they viewed as dangerous? 86.20.38.212 ( talk) 12:18, 26 September 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.20.38.212 ( talk) 12:11, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
The statistic that 1-2% of the "general population" has BPD is repeated in this article, as well as the statistic that the eventual suicide rate among people with BPD is 8-10%.
If we multiply these numbers, it says that 8-20 people in 1,000 suffer from BPD and kill themselves.
Suicide rates vary considerably by country, but in the United States, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate gives the rate (per year) for the US as 17.7 per 100,000, and most of the world population is probably within a factor of 2 of this. Averaged a lifetime of roughly 70 years, this would put suicide as the cause of death of about 11 per 1000 of the US population. This seems to imply that almost all suicides are by borderline patients.
Other sources give estimate that about 1/3 of completed suicides are by borderline patients.
These figures do not fit together. I suspect that for the estimate that 8-10% of people with BPD who commit suicide is based on more restrictive criteria than the estimate that 1-2% of the general population has BPD.
There's a tendency for unsourced statistics to be published, then repeated with the unsourced publication cited as the source. For instance, in this article, citation 24 is given as the source of the figure that 8-10% eventually commit suicide, but citation 24 does not give sources. It's wrong to keep broadcasting potentially misleading statistics. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Quintipus ( talk • contribs) 14:42, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
Is it common for someone showing many symptoms of BPD to not realize he or she has it, making it difficult to receive treatment? What can family and friends do to help? Sweetleslie540 ( talk) 22:58, 31 October 2010 (UTC) I appologize by asking a question. I'm new to this whole thing, so please don't feel the need to batter me because I've asked. If someone is willing to help, I'm grateful, otherwise, please don't bash and move on. Sweetleslie540 ( talk) 23:27, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
I removed one sentence left from an add of 14 June 2008, the diff of which is here, where authors are parenthetically mentioned, but they do not appear in refs or bibliography or anywhere else in the article. That's clearly copied from somewhere, or Anonymaus forgot to finish the job by providing the corresponding bibliographical entries. Am quite surprised that it stayed this long. I tried a Google search of the original, but that's not easy, since everyone and his brother are copying this article all over the Net. -- Jerome Potts ( talk) 11:40, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
Wondering why we are using two reference formats? Cannot we not stick with one... Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) 01:00, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
It has been proposed that Borderline personality disorder be part of the trial of a new template; see the green strip at the top of Pain where it has been in place for a couple of months. The purpose of this project is to encourage readers to edit, while equipping them with the basic tools. If you perceive a problem with this, or have any suggestions for improvement, please discuss at the project talk page. -- Anthonyhcole ( talk) 09:28, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
This entire section is clearly just fluff. Pretend diagnoses of fictional characters have no place in an article of this nature. This section reads like a film fan magazine article. I have read the reasons given to retain this section, and these reasons are wholly inadequate. Keep Star Wars to Star Wars' articles please. 123.243.37.236 ( talk) 04:46, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
Hello, I stopped by today to add a decade old reference regarding the paradox of expressed emotions in caregivers. It is presently #18 and the link is still open as of today. But once it starts getting a lot of site hits I expect the APA will close it;a number of other references here to the journals are already closed except to subscribers and active payers. So one of the regular article editors may wish to see what could be done to find free references which support the material. Thanks, kudos to all. This is a pretty well written article. Trilobitealive ( talk) 22:47, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
But I'm not going to waste time on this as the whole Psycholgoy category is a mess anyway -- an embarrassment. -- Mattisse 01:01, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
It's a personality disorder, at least according to the DSM. [1] "Character disorder" is a bit outdated. Rapunzel676 ( talk) 03:49, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
I have to say that suicide attempts are not just in extreme cases. I have Borderline Personality Disorder and I do not have it to that extent, however, I tried to kill myself when I was twenty three. This is because I did not have any therapy, and was unaware that I had the disorder. My point is that it's not purely extreme cases. ~~Molly ~~23 October 2010 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.58.112.145 ( talk) 02:19, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
Leichsenring F, Leibing E, Kruse J, New AS, Leweke F (2011). "Borderline personality disorder". Lancet. 377 (9759): 74–84.
doi:
10.1016/S0140-6736(10)61422-5.
PMID
21195251. {{
cite journal}}
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ignored (
help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link) --
Doc James (
talk ·
contribs ·
email) 06:53, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
What if BPD is caused by the limbic system being in a perpetual state of flight or flight due to a structural flaw in the human body? This could cause a distortion in perception and what if that causes the conscious mind (matter) to compete with the unconscious mind (antimatter)for oxygen? Emotions could the conscious mind desperately making an attempt at increasing or decreasing cerebral metabolism and people with BPD haven't fully gained consciousness and are in a perpetual state of REM/BETA, and are only partially conscious with the help of adrenaline and binge eating and drugs helps them get to sleep? I believe I broke out and it took me 23 years. And now I'm fast. Very fast to the point the I have to slow down and appear to walk in slow motion. I may be in a perpetual state of THETA now but I can't be too sure. I don't get depressed or get anxiety and I can disassociate the pleasure of an orgasm completely just with breathing techniques. Think about when you're in a car accident and time slows down- I'm like that during most waking hours but my perception changes with lighting and temperature shifts. Pretty much like a reptile. TH3 D3FIANT ON3 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.196.226.144 ( talk) 04:43, 11 April 2011 (UTC) <!-(CONSCIOUS) [WILL] (SUBCONSCIOUS)-->
isnt EUPD a separate disorder all together? an impulsive type and a borderline type shouldn't this disorder have its own page? or be mentioned more. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.72.221.166 ( talk) 11:53, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
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Please capitalise the title of this article!
Thank you :)
86.134.64.26 (
talk) 18:43, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
This
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I am requesting to submit information from an established and reviewed medical article entitled "Effectiveness of Pharmacotherapy for Severe Personality Disorders: Meta-Analyses of Randomized Controlled Trials." Author= Ingenhoven T M.D. etal; Source= Journal of Clinical Psychiatry 2010 71(1):14-25. The edit will modify the Medical Treatment portion of the talk page on Borderline Personality Disorder and provide evidence based data regarding the usage of Mood Stabilizers in the treatment of specific symptoms of Borderline Personality Disorder, mainly the evidence supporting the usage of mood stabilizers in treating impulse-behavior dyscontrol and anger.
Langejr ( talk) 16:50, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
Proposed Text: Under 4 Management - 4.2 Medications - Please add in new paragraph under existing one.
The use of psychotropic pharmacological medications (including antipsychotic, mood stabilizers, and antidepressants) in the treatment of Borderline Personality Disorder is controversial. However, a recent meta-analysis analyzing double-blind placebo controlled randomized trials from 1980 to 2007 provides some evidence for the use of such drugs in the treatment of specific symptoms in severe personality disorders (including Borderline Personality Disorder and Schizotypal Personality Disorder).[2] Of note, the analysis reports significant improvement in impulse-behavior dyscontrol and anger dysregulation with the use of mood stabilizing drugs such as valproate, carbamazepine, topiramte, and lamotrigine. The study results found the pooled effect size of mood stabilizers on impulsive-behavioral dyscontrol (SMD=1.51; 95% CI, 0.42-2.59) to be significant (P < 0.1) and qualified as very large. Results of the pooled effect size of mood stabilizers on anger (SMD=1.33; 95% CI 0.43-2.22) was also found to be significant (P<0.1) and qualified as large. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Langejr ( talk • contribs) 20:59, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
and the June 2010 systematic review the article presently relies on [3]Mood stabilizers have a very large effect on impulsive-behavioral dyscontrol (6 PC-RCTs; SMD=1.51) and anger (7 PC-RCTs; SMD=1.33), a large effect on anxiety (3 PC-RCTs; SMD=0.80). [...] Mood stabilizers have a more pronounced effect on global functioning (3 PC-RCTs; SMD=0.79) than have antipsychotics (5 PC-RCTs; SMD=0.37).
The latter warns that the evidence for effect is thin (single studies), urges caution in interpretation and clinical application, and sees no significant improvement in "total BPD severity" from any drug. The former does not express reservations about interpretation or clinical application of the data, and uses the word "pronounced" when describing the impact of mood stabilizers on global functioning, which one would expect to be somewhat correlated with "total BPD severity."The available evidence indicates some beneficial effects with second-generation antipsychotics, mood stabilisers, and dietary supplementation by omega-3 fatty acids. However, these are mostly based on single study effect estimates. [...] Total BPD severity was not significantly influenced by any drug. [...] Conclusions have to be drawn carefully in the light of several limitations of the RCT evidence that constrain applicability to everyday clinical settings...
I haven't read the papers; this is from the abstracts. If a reading of the papers can explain these apparent discrepancies, I'm fine about inserting this good news into the article. But if they can't be reconciled, I'd prefer to stick with the present, more timid, Cochrane Review claims rather than the bolder Ingenhoven et al. claims.for now; until the efficacy results have been replicated. -- Anthonyhcole ( talk) 21:34, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
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Hi Under the gender section, the citation that women are three time more likely to be diagnosed with BPD than men comes from the DSM-IV-TR (American Psychiatric Association, 2000, pg 708).
134.115.2.117 (
talk) 07:36, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
Since this talk page is so long, I'm turning on auto-archiving, so messages older than 90 days will be moved to the archive sub-pages. This will make it easier to follow discussions. Let me know if there are any objections. Qwyrxian ( talk) 13:10, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
Where are those? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.4.19.137 ( talk) 05:13, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
When referring to Star Wars, you use the term hexology. The correct term for a series consisting of six is hexalogy 76.179.134.194 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 14:33, 2 June 2011 (UTC).
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The section:
Borderline personality disorder was once classified as a subset of schizophrenia (describing patients with borderline schizophrenic tendencies). Today BPD is used more generally to describe individuals who display emotional dysregulation and instability, with paranoid schizophrenic ideation or delusions being only one criterion (criterion #9) of a total of 9 criteria, of which 5, or more, must be present for this diagnosis.
Should read:
Borderline personality disorder was once classified as a subset of schizophrenia (describing patients with borderline schizophrenic tendencies). Today BPD is used more generally to describe individuals who display emotional dysregulation and instability, with paranoid ideation or delusions being only one criterion (criterion #9) of a total of 9 criteria, of which 5, or more, must be present for this diagnosis.
i.e. the word Schizophrenic should not be present. Paranoid ideation is the correct term. Paranoid schizophrenic already implies the person has schizophrenia. This may cause alarm and confusion swell as being incorrect. Gyulafekete ( talk) 15:37, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
according to this [4] article, Marlyn had it. Kittybrewster ☎ 16:43, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
It says that this article was semi-protected sometime last October because of excessive vandalism, but I didn't see anything in the talk archive. Looking at the entries above, it looks like the newbies have many constructive edits to add. Is this really justified? Reub2000 ( talk) 03:47, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
If anyone agrees, I would like to add "The Big Hit" to the list of movies, which are "attempting to depict characters with the disorder", due to its main character. 83.17.84.82 ( talk) 08:25, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
I've read that high IQ's often go with BPD; is it characteristic of higher IQ BPD's to industrially, write thick 'novels' with their thinly disguised family members in it? Do military entrance exams screen for BPD? ∞ focusoninfinity 03:42, 17 August 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Focusoninfinity ( talk • contribs)
In the medications section, the efficacy of mood stabilizers in treating borderline personality disorder needs to be considered. It is very misleading to simply dismiss mood stabilizers as clinically insignificant ("weak") in the treatment of BPD. Affective instability and emotional dysregulation are among the most serious symptoms of this disorder, and can be modulated by an effective mood stabilizer, in particular Carbamazepine (Tegretol), which is used increasingly by specialists with clinically significant results. Evidence for this is as follows:
Denicoff KD, Meglathery SB, Post RM,... - Biological Psychiatry Branch, National Institute of Mental Health, Bethesda, MD. J Clin Psychiatry. 1994 Feb - Efficacy of carbamazepine compared with other agents: a clinical practice survey
Carbamazepine. Gardner DL, Cowdry RW. - Am J Psychiatry. 1986 Apr - Positive effects of carbamazepine on behavioral dyscontrol in borderline personality disorder.
Although medical treatment of the borderline personality disorder is more an art than a science, given doctors' general lack of knowledge on the subject compared to more "mainstream" disorders such as bipolar disorder, to report that evidence for benefits of mood stabilizers to BPD sufferers is "weak" is simply untrue, and serves to only mislead readers of this otherwise excellent article. To say that omega 3 fatty acids and antipsychotics, both certainly of little benefit to a BPD sufferer, are in the same bracket as mood stabilizers in terms of clinical efficacy, is simply untrue based on performed clinical trials.
Please verify all sources of evidence above and allow the appropriate changes to be made accordingly.
94.13.13.164 ( talk) 07:48, 3 September 2011 (UTC)James Brannigan 03 Sept 2011
and seems to be paraphrasing this statement from that reviewStoffers J, Völlm BA, Rücker G, Timmer A, Huband N, Lieb K. (2010) Pharmacological interventions for borderline personality disorder. Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 16 (6) PMID 20556762
The findings were suggestive in supporting the use of second-generation antipsychotics, mood stabilisers, and omega-3 fatty acids, but require replication, since most effect estimates were based on single studies. The long-term use of these drugs has not been assessed.
(Discussions on Wikipedia talk pages can range over several days or weeks, depending on schedules and time zones of different editors.) -- Anthonyhcole ( talk) 09:41, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
Anthonyhcole, thank you for finding those evidence links online - they do exist in printed format but I was unable to locate digital (online) format particularly due to their age. I appreciate you finding them as this will make it a lot easier to edit now. As I mentioned previously the most comprehensive resource I have found on borderline personality disorder is currently made by psychiatrist Dr Leland Heller M.D. [2]. All assertions on that site are backed up by verifiable evidence which is available online. Since not many know certain facts about the BPD, it is necessary to trust the opinions of specialists such as Dr Heller rather than simply paraphrase a single piece of research. If, of course, there are trials in which mood stabilizers, Carbamazepine in particular, have been shown to have "weak" benefits, then by all means let us reflect that in the article. At the same time, there is compelling clinical evidence both from published trials (as you have seen), as well as from expert opinion (psychiatrist specializing in BPD) that mood stabilizers may be of significant benefit to sufferers of BPD. For the sake of impartiality and the pursuit of facts, we must reflect the positive findings too.
As I have mentioned before, to ignore the benefits of mood stabilizers for a disorder whose main symptoms are emotional instability and impulsive behavior, is incorrect and misleading. There is even evidence that antidepressants such as fluoxetine as well as as needed antipsychotics such as haloperidol, may be of benefit. I have managed to find evidence online so I am improving at this, please find it here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1683641 . I was particularly eager to have Carbamazepine included in the article because its benefits are often overlooked, whereas most doctors would prescribe an SSRI as a first port of call anyway. However, the BPD involves a few systems which are out of sync, namely adrenergic, cholinergic, serotonergic and even dopaminergic systems which are ideally treated with carbamazepine, fluoxetine and low dose antipsychotics respectively. Of course, not every patient will be the same, for example, certainly not all patients will respond to or require an antipsychotic; some patients may have dysregulation in certain systems more than others, for no two brains are the same, and professional judgement of the psychiatrist always needs to be exercised as to which specific medications to use, however the essential point remains that medications must not be automatically discounted where they have been shown by various verifiable sources within wikipedia's guidelines to be of clinically significant benefit.
Borderline personality disorder medications are not simply effective for co-morbid conditions, they are effective for the condition itself. It could be quite dangerous for wikipedia to essentially state that there is little point in using any medications, leading some doctors to shy away from using medication whose efficacy has been proven by a variety of trials.
Please edit it as you see fit, since you are the editor; I would trust your judgement in light of the evidence presented.
I would be prepared to do further research on this matter using of course verifiable sources only, and if this means that I would have to familiarize myself with wikipedia's extensive syntax then so be it.
Thankyou for your patience (I did not mean to go on so long). 94.13.13.164 ( talk) 11:07, 3 September 2011 (UTC)James Brannigan
@94.13.13.164 regarding experts - wikipedia has a number of doctors (including specialists) who edit. I am actually a psychiatrist so am quite familiar with the theories surrounding the pathogenesis and treatment of this disorder, as well as seeing what doctors actually prescribe, what patients are prescribed. There are times where my own observations vary from the published literature, but the role here is encyclopedia not groundbreaking medical journal. We are always keen to see new and interesting Review Articles - Cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 10:15, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
I have rewritten the medication section with a bit more detail, per the above discussion. -- Anthonyhcole ( talk) 00:01, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
94.13.13.164 ( talk) 16:37, 9 September 2011 (UTC)James Brannigan
The section titled "Child Abuse" has some confusing language. Specifically: "They were also reported to have failed to provide needed protection, and neglected their child's physical care." Who are they, the person with BPD or the parents/caregivers of the person with BPD? I would fix this myself, but as there is no citation, I really don't know which is correct. Tarview ( talk) 20:05, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
There is evidence that suggests that BPD and post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) are closely related.[26] this links to the following article "Impact of Co-Occurring Posttraumatic Stress Disorder on
Suicidal Women With Borderline Personality Disorder" said article does not contain any claim that support this. The statement seems to imply that there is a similarity or resemblance between BPD and PTSD. The article only says that suicidal women with borderline personality disorder who also suffer from PTSD, have more extreme suicidal and self mutilating behaviour. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Slegten M (
talk •
contribs) 23:39, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | → | Archive 9 |
If a book or movie has a character who has been specifically diagnosed with BPD, including them in this section MIGHT be of benefit. But most of the characters listed are just people who "could have" BPD, based on the opinions of some viewers who may or may not be expert and who admit that the characters don't QUITE fit. How, exactly, is this any more encyclopedic or informative than the discussion my friends and I had last week, accompanied by 4 bottles of red wine, about whether George W. Bush really meets the definition of a sociopath?
As someone with BPD who has never harmed or threatened another person in her life, I am sick and tired of being compared with Alex from Fatal Attraction. When I tell men who are interested in me that I have BPD and they look it up online, guess what they see first? Would you include Jason from the Friday the 13th movies in the "Society and Culture" section on schizophrenia? It's just as valid.
Including this section is not only of questionable legitimacy, it furthers the stigmatization of people who, through no fault of their own, find themselves trying to manage this disorder. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.178.152.83 ( talk) 23:17, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
The book is one wwritten by a psychiatrist discussing films portraying psychiatric conditions. It is worth discussing them as they are popularly seen to represent teh condition, hence discussing them and discussing inaccuracies is important rather than ignoring. Casliber ( talk · contribs) 03:53, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
ps; for the record, the two examples removed I think I can source, however both are not great examples so I don't see them as a high priority. I felt that neither really encapsulated the syndrome well (however if someone else is desperate to source them...). Some secondary discussion is always good. Casliber ( talk · contribs) 21:39, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
I don't see anything to indicate that this book is not reliable, or that it is represents a minority opinion, or that its author is considered to be fringe. IP argues that this book has negative consequences for BPD sufferers...well, that's not relevant, unless IP can demonstrate that this viewpoint is not a mainstream view in the current psychological field. Let me go back to the IP's claim about "inferiority" of blacks in historical scientific literature. I would argue that, if Wikipedia had been written in the mid 1800s, it would, in fact, have been correct for Wikipedia to report that blacks are inferior according to the psychological literature of the time. Now, I don't agree with that claim, and neither did some others at the time. But Wikipedia's job is to summarize and repeat what reliable sources have said, not to make our own judgment about what is or isn't correct. If you have other reliable sources that you believe that can be added to the article to provide balance, then feel free to do so--articles are required to represent all relevant viewpoints in proportion to their relative importance. Alternatively, if you can show why this is not a reliable source, it can be removed. One thing you could do is ask at either [[WP:Wikiproject Psychology}the Psychology Wikiproject]] or at the reliable sources noticeboard. If either or both of those considered these to be unreliable sources, removing would then be appropriate. Qwyrxian ( talk) 01:35, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
Add http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=when-passion-is-the-enemy [1] ? 99.155.146.1 ( talk) 01:00, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
I have been diagnosed with BPD twice in the last two years yet have been unable to obtain treatment or even direction as to what i need to do in order to get better. I'm tired of living like this and want desperately to get better. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.155.111.68 ( talk) 06:02, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
i too have been diagnosed with bpd and my family seems to think that i have multiple perosnalities. however i dont have the memory loss associated with it. i was just wondering can bpd manifest similarities? my husband even says my accents change when i talk and total different perosnatlites emerge. any info would help. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
69.176.22.196 (
talk) 21:36, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
I have removed your email addresses--never leave your email address on open boards on the internet. Please note that Talk pages are where we improve the article, not a place to ask general (forum-like) questions. I recommend contacting a healthcare professional, or, if you want other amateur's opinion, going to a website that specialized in hosting conversations between people with medical problems. Thanks, Qwyrxian ( talk) 22:22, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
on a scale of 1-10 how do the medical proffession and society in general view people with bpd,are they viewed as dangerous? 86.20.38.212 ( talk) 12:18, 26 September 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.20.38.212 ( talk) 12:11, 26 September 2010 (UTC)
The statistic that 1-2% of the "general population" has BPD is repeated in this article, as well as the statistic that the eventual suicide rate among people with BPD is 8-10%.
If we multiply these numbers, it says that 8-20 people in 1,000 suffer from BPD and kill themselves.
Suicide rates vary considerably by country, but in the United States, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate gives the rate (per year) for the US as 17.7 per 100,000, and most of the world population is probably within a factor of 2 of this. Averaged a lifetime of roughly 70 years, this would put suicide as the cause of death of about 11 per 1000 of the US population. This seems to imply that almost all suicides are by borderline patients.
Other sources give estimate that about 1/3 of completed suicides are by borderline patients.
These figures do not fit together. I suspect that for the estimate that 8-10% of people with BPD who commit suicide is based on more restrictive criteria than the estimate that 1-2% of the general population has BPD.
There's a tendency for unsourced statistics to be published, then repeated with the unsourced publication cited as the source. For instance, in this article, citation 24 is given as the source of the figure that 8-10% eventually commit suicide, but citation 24 does not give sources. It's wrong to keep broadcasting potentially misleading statistics. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Quintipus ( talk • contribs) 14:42, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
Is it common for someone showing many symptoms of BPD to not realize he or she has it, making it difficult to receive treatment? What can family and friends do to help? Sweetleslie540 ( talk) 22:58, 31 October 2010 (UTC) I appologize by asking a question. I'm new to this whole thing, so please don't feel the need to batter me because I've asked. If someone is willing to help, I'm grateful, otherwise, please don't bash and move on. Sweetleslie540 ( talk) 23:27, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
I removed one sentence left from an add of 14 June 2008, the diff of which is here, where authors are parenthetically mentioned, but they do not appear in refs or bibliography or anywhere else in the article. That's clearly copied from somewhere, or Anonymaus forgot to finish the job by providing the corresponding bibliographical entries. Am quite surprised that it stayed this long. I tried a Google search of the original, but that's not easy, since everyone and his brother are copying this article all over the Net. -- Jerome Potts ( talk) 11:40, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
Wondering why we are using two reference formats? Cannot we not stick with one... Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) 01:00, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
It has been proposed that Borderline personality disorder be part of the trial of a new template; see the green strip at the top of Pain where it has been in place for a couple of months. The purpose of this project is to encourage readers to edit, while equipping them with the basic tools. If you perceive a problem with this, or have any suggestions for improvement, please discuss at the project talk page. -- Anthonyhcole ( talk) 09:28, 10 January 2011 (UTC)
This entire section is clearly just fluff. Pretend diagnoses of fictional characters have no place in an article of this nature. This section reads like a film fan magazine article. I have read the reasons given to retain this section, and these reasons are wholly inadequate. Keep Star Wars to Star Wars' articles please. 123.243.37.236 ( talk) 04:46, 18 January 2011 (UTC)
Hello, I stopped by today to add a decade old reference regarding the paradox of expressed emotions in caregivers. It is presently #18 and the link is still open as of today. But once it starts getting a lot of site hits I expect the APA will close it;a number of other references here to the journals are already closed except to subscribers and active payers. So one of the regular article editors may wish to see what could be done to find free references which support the material. Thanks, kudos to all. This is a pretty well written article. Trilobitealive ( talk) 22:47, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
But I'm not going to waste time on this as the whole Psycholgoy category is a mess anyway -- an embarrassment. -- Mattisse 01:01, 8 September 2007 (UTC)
It's a personality disorder, at least according to the DSM. [1] "Character disorder" is a bit outdated. Rapunzel676 ( talk) 03:49, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
I have to say that suicide attempts are not just in extreme cases. I have Borderline Personality Disorder and I do not have it to that extent, however, I tried to kill myself when I was twenty three. This is because I did not have any therapy, and was unaware that I had the disorder. My point is that it's not purely extreme cases. ~~Molly ~~23 October 2010 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.58.112.145 ( talk) 02:19, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
Leichsenring F, Leibing E, Kruse J, New AS, Leweke F (2011). "Borderline personality disorder". Lancet. 377 (9759): 74–84.
doi:
10.1016/S0140-6736(10)61422-5.
PMID
21195251. {{
cite journal}}
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ignored (
help)CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (
link) --
Doc James (
talk ·
contribs ·
email) 06:53, 3 March 2011 (UTC)
What if BPD is caused by the limbic system being in a perpetual state of flight or flight due to a structural flaw in the human body? This could cause a distortion in perception and what if that causes the conscious mind (matter) to compete with the unconscious mind (antimatter)for oxygen? Emotions could the conscious mind desperately making an attempt at increasing or decreasing cerebral metabolism and people with BPD haven't fully gained consciousness and are in a perpetual state of REM/BETA, and are only partially conscious with the help of adrenaline and binge eating and drugs helps them get to sleep? I believe I broke out and it took me 23 years. And now I'm fast. Very fast to the point the I have to slow down and appear to walk in slow motion. I may be in a perpetual state of THETA now but I can't be too sure. I don't get depressed or get anxiety and I can disassociate the pleasure of an orgasm completely just with breathing techniques. Think about when you're in a car accident and time slows down- I'm like that during most waking hours but my perception changes with lighting and temperature shifts. Pretty much like a reptile. TH3 D3FIANT ON3 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.196.226.144 ( talk) 04:43, 11 April 2011 (UTC) <!-(CONSCIOUS) [WILL] (SUBCONSCIOUS)-->
isnt EUPD a separate disorder all together? an impulsive type and a borderline type shouldn't this disorder have its own page? or be mentioned more. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 114.72.221.166 ( talk) 11:53, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
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Please capitalise the title of this article!
Thank you :)
86.134.64.26 (
talk) 18:43, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
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I am requesting to submit information from an established and reviewed medical article entitled "Effectiveness of Pharmacotherapy for Severe Personality Disorders: Meta-Analyses of Randomized Controlled Trials." Author= Ingenhoven T M.D. etal; Source= Journal of Clinical Psychiatry 2010 71(1):14-25. The edit will modify the Medical Treatment portion of the talk page on Borderline Personality Disorder and provide evidence based data regarding the usage of Mood Stabilizers in the treatment of specific symptoms of Borderline Personality Disorder, mainly the evidence supporting the usage of mood stabilizers in treating impulse-behavior dyscontrol and anger.
Langejr ( talk) 16:50, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
Proposed Text: Under 4 Management - 4.2 Medications - Please add in new paragraph under existing one.
The use of psychotropic pharmacological medications (including antipsychotic, mood stabilizers, and antidepressants) in the treatment of Borderline Personality Disorder is controversial. However, a recent meta-analysis analyzing double-blind placebo controlled randomized trials from 1980 to 2007 provides some evidence for the use of such drugs in the treatment of specific symptoms in severe personality disorders (including Borderline Personality Disorder and Schizotypal Personality Disorder).[2] Of note, the analysis reports significant improvement in impulse-behavior dyscontrol and anger dysregulation with the use of mood stabilizing drugs such as valproate, carbamazepine, topiramte, and lamotrigine. The study results found the pooled effect size of mood stabilizers on impulsive-behavioral dyscontrol (SMD=1.51; 95% CI, 0.42-2.59) to be significant (P < 0.1) and qualified as very large. Results of the pooled effect size of mood stabilizers on anger (SMD=1.33; 95% CI 0.43-2.22) was also found to be significant (P<0.1) and qualified as large. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Langejr ( talk • contribs) 20:59, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
and the June 2010 systematic review the article presently relies on [3]Mood stabilizers have a very large effect on impulsive-behavioral dyscontrol (6 PC-RCTs; SMD=1.51) and anger (7 PC-RCTs; SMD=1.33), a large effect on anxiety (3 PC-RCTs; SMD=0.80). [...] Mood stabilizers have a more pronounced effect on global functioning (3 PC-RCTs; SMD=0.79) than have antipsychotics (5 PC-RCTs; SMD=0.37).
The latter warns that the evidence for effect is thin (single studies), urges caution in interpretation and clinical application, and sees no significant improvement in "total BPD severity" from any drug. The former does not express reservations about interpretation or clinical application of the data, and uses the word "pronounced" when describing the impact of mood stabilizers on global functioning, which one would expect to be somewhat correlated with "total BPD severity."The available evidence indicates some beneficial effects with second-generation antipsychotics, mood stabilisers, and dietary supplementation by omega-3 fatty acids. However, these are mostly based on single study effect estimates. [...] Total BPD severity was not significantly influenced by any drug. [...] Conclusions have to be drawn carefully in the light of several limitations of the RCT evidence that constrain applicability to everyday clinical settings...
I haven't read the papers; this is from the abstracts. If a reading of the papers can explain these apparent discrepancies, I'm fine about inserting this good news into the article. But if they can't be reconciled, I'd prefer to stick with the present, more timid, Cochrane Review claims rather than the bolder Ingenhoven et al. claims.for now; until the efficacy results have been replicated. -- Anthonyhcole ( talk) 21:34, 16 April 2011 (UTC)
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Hi Under the gender section, the citation that women are three time more likely to be diagnosed with BPD than men comes from the DSM-IV-TR (American Psychiatric Association, 2000, pg 708).
134.115.2.117 (
talk) 07:36, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
Since this talk page is so long, I'm turning on auto-archiving, so messages older than 90 days will be moved to the archive sub-pages. This will make it easier to follow discussions. Let me know if there are any objections. Qwyrxian ( talk) 13:10, 11 April 2011 (UTC)
Where are those? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.4.19.137 ( talk) 05:13, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
When referring to Star Wars, you use the term hexology. The correct term for a series consisting of six is hexalogy 76.179.134.194 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 14:33, 2 June 2011 (UTC).
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The section:
Borderline personality disorder was once classified as a subset of schizophrenia (describing patients with borderline schizophrenic tendencies). Today BPD is used more generally to describe individuals who display emotional dysregulation and instability, with paranoid schizophrenic ideation or delusions being only one criterion (criterion #9) of a total of 9 criteria, of which 5, or more, must be present for this diagnosis.
Should read:
Borderline personality disorder was once classified as a subset of schizophrenia (describing patients with borderline schizophrenic tendencies). Today BPD is used more generally to describe individuals who display emotional dysregulation and instability, with paranoid ideation or delusions being only one criterion (criterion #9) of a total of 9 criteria, of which 5, or more, must be present for this diagnosis.
i.e. the word Schizophrenic should not be present. Paranoid ideation is the correct term. Paranoid schizophrenic already implies the person has schizophrenia. This may cause alarm and confusion swell as being incorrect. Gyulafekete ( talk) 15:37, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
according to this [4] article, Marlyn had it. Kittybrewster ☎ 16:43, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
It says that this article was semi-protected sometime last October because of excessive vandalism, but I didn't see anything in the talk archive. Looking at the entries above, it looks like the newbies have many constructive edits to add. Is this really justified? Reub2000 ( talk) 03:47, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
If anyone agrees, I would like to add "The Big Hit" to the list of movies, which are "attempting to depict characters with the disorder", due to its main character. 83.17.84.82 ( talk) 08:25, 13 August 2011 (UTC)
I've read that high IQ's often go with BPD; is it characteristic of higher IQ BPD's to industrially, write thick 'novels' with their thinly disguised family members in it? Do military entrance exams screen for BPD? ∞ focusoninfinity 03:42, 17 August 2011 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Focusoninfinity ( talk • contribs)
In the medications section, the efficacy of mood stabilizers in treating borderline personality disorder needs to be considered. It is very misleading to simply dismiss mood stabilizers as clinically insignificant ("weak") in the treatment of BPD. Affective instability and emotional dysregulation are among the most serious symptoms of this disorder, and can be modulated by an effective mood stabilizer, in particular Carbamazepine (Tegretol), which is used increasingly by specialists with clinically significant results. Evidence for this is as follows:
Denicoff KD, Meglathery SB, Post RM,... - Biological Psychiatry Branch, National Institute of Mental Health, Bethesda, MD. J Clin Psychiatry. 1994 Feb - Efficacy of carbamazepine compared with other agents: a clinical practice survey
Carbamazepine. Gardner DL, Cowdry RW. - Am J Psychiatry. 1986 Apr - Positive effects of carbamazepine on behavioral dyscontrol in borderline personality disorder.
Although medical treatment of the borderline personality disorder is more an art than a science, given doctors' general lack of knowledge on the subject compared to more "mainstream" disorders such as bipolar disorder, to report that evidence for benefits of mood stabilizers to BPD sufferers is "weak" is simply untrue, and serves to only mislead readers of this otherwise excellent article. To say that omega 3 fatty acids and antipsychotics, both certainly of little benefit to a BPD sufferer, are in the same bracket as mood stabilizers in terms of clinical efficacy, is simply untrue based on performed clinical trials.
Please verify all sources of evidence above and allow the appropriate changes to be made accordingly.
94.13.13.164 ( talk) 07:48, 3 September 2011 (UTC)James Brannigan 03 Sept 2011
and seems to be paraphrasing this statement from that reviewStoffers J, Völlm BA, Rücker G, Timmer A, Huband N, Lieb K. (2010) Pharmacological interventions for borderline personality disorder. Cochrane Database Syst Rev. 16 (6) PMID 20556762
The findings were suggestive in supporting the use of second-generation antipsychotics, mood stabilisers, and omega-3 fatty acids, but require replication, since most effect estimates were based on single studies. The long-term use of these drugs has not been assessed.
(Discussions on Wikipedia talk pages can range over several days or weeks, depending on schedules and time zones of different editors.) -- Anthonyhcole ( talk) 09:41, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
Anthonyhcole, thank you for finding those evidence links online - they do exist in printed format but I was unable to locate digital (online) format particularly due to their age. I appreciate you finding them as this will make it a lot easier to edit now. As I mentioned previously the most comprehensive resource I have found on borderline personality disorder is currently made by psychiatrist Dr Leland Heller M.D. [2]. All assertions on that site are backed up by verifiable evidence which is available online. Since not many know certain facts about the BPD, it is necessary to trust the opinions of specialists such as Dr Heller rather than simply paraphrase a single piece of research. If, of course, there are trials in which mood stabilizers, Carbamazepine in particular, have been shown to have "weak" benefits, then by all means let us reflect that in the article. At the same time, there is compelling clinical evidence both from published trials (as you have seen), as well as from expert opinion (psychiatrist specializing in BPD) that mood stabilizers may be of significant benefit to sufferers of BPD. For the sake of impartiality and the pursuit of facts, we must reflect the positive findings too.
As I have mentioned before, to ignore the benefits of mood stabilizers for a disorder whose main symptoms are emotional instability and impulsive behavior, is incorrect and misleading. There is even evidence that antidepressants such as fluoxetine as well as as needed antipsychotics such as haloperidol, may be of benefit. I have managed to find evidence online so I am improving at this, please find it here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1683641 . I was particularly eager to have Carbamazepine included in the article because its benefits are often overlooked, whereas most doctors would prescribe an SSRI as a first port of call anyway. However, the BPD involves a few systems which are out of sync, namely adrenergic, cholinergic, serotonergic and even dopaminergic systems which are ideally treated with carbamazepine, fluoxetine and low dose antipsychotics respectively. Of course, not every patient will be the same, for example, certainly not all patients will respond to or require an antipsychotic; some patients may have dysregulation in certain systems more than others, for no two brains are the same, and professional judgement of the psychiatrist always needs to be exercised as to which specific medications to use, however the essential point remains that medications must not be automatically discounted where they have been shown by various verifiable sources within wikipedia's guidelines to be of clinically significant benefit.
Borderline personality disorder medications are not simply effective for co-morbid conditions, they are effective for the condition itself. It could be quite dangerous for wikipedia to essentially state that there is little point in using any medications, leading some doctors to shy away from using medication whose efficacy has been proven by a variety of trials.
Please edit it as you see fit, since you are the editor; I would trust your judgement in light of the evidence presented.
I would be prepared to do further research on this matter using of course verifiable sources only, and if this means that I would have to familiarize myself with wikipedia's extensive syntax then so be it.
Thankyou for your patience (I did not mean to go on so long). 94.13.13.164 ( talk) 11:07, 3 September 2011 (UTC)James Brannigan
@94.13.13.164 regarding experts - wikipedia has a number of doctors (including specialists) who edit. I am actually a psychiatrist so am quite familiar with the theories surrounding the pathogenesis and treatment of this disorder, as well as seeing what doctors actually prescribe, what patients are prescribed. There are times where my own observations vary from the published literature, but the role here is encyclopedia not groundbreaking medical journal. We are always keen to see new and interesting Review Articles - Cheers, Casliber ( talk · contribs) 10:15, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
I have rewritten the medication section with a bit more detail, per the above discussion. -- Anthonyhcole ( talk) 00:01, 6 September 2011 (UTC)
94.13.13.164 ( talk) 16:37, 9 September 2011 (UTC)James Brannigan
The section titled "Child Abuse" has some confusing language. Specifically: "They were also reported to have failed to provide needed protection, and neglected their child's physical care." Who are they, the person with BPD or the parents/caregivers of the person with BPD? I would fix this myself, but as there is no citation, I really don't know which is correct. Tarview ( talk) 20:05, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
There is evidence that suggests that BPD and post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) are closely related.[26] this links to the following article "Impact of Co-Occurring Posttraumatic Stress Disorder on
Suicidal Women With Borderline Personality Disorder" said article does not contain any claim that support this. The statement seems to imply that there is a similarity or resemblance between BPD and PTSD. The article only says that suicidal women with borderline personality disorder who also suffer from PTSD, have more extreme suicidal and self mutilating behaviour. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Slegten M (
talk •
contribs) 23:39, 6 November 2011 (UTC)