This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | Archive 9 | Archive 10 | Archive 11 | → | Archive 13 |
He said "Batman stories are psychologically homosexual" and "The Batman type of story may stimulate children to homosexual fantasies, of the nature of which they may be unconscious" and "Only someone ignorant of the fundamentals of psychiatry and of the psychopathology of sex can fail to realize a subtle atmosphere of homoeroticism which pervades the adventures of the mature 'Batman' and his young friend 'Robin'". I think children are ignorant of the fundamentals of psychiatry.Normally a children would interpretate even a very subtle homossexual relationship in a comics as friendship or maybe in the case of Batman and Robin as brotherhood or maybe a father-son relationship.
The so called controversy is tiresome. Can someone edit: Such homosexual interpretations continue to attract attention. One notable example and change it to: Such controversial debates continue. One notable example.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 8.17.200.2 ( talk) 21:21, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
In psychology, psychological projection (or projection bias) is a defense mechanism where a person's personal attributes, unacceptable or unwanted thoughts, and/or emotions are ascribed onto another person or people. According to Wade, Tavris (2000) projection occurs when a person's own unacceptable or threatening feelings are repressed and then attributed to someone else. An example of such simple behavior would be: blame for failure, making an excuse for your own faults by projecting the cause of said failure onto someone else, hence blaming them and not accepting the reality of the failure. One would argue that you are projecting the threatening feelings. Projection reduces anxiety by allowing the expression of the unwanted subconscious impulses or desires without letting the conscious mind recognize them. The issue is not whether the homosexual interpretation is product of the character but of the viewer. It seems that it would be helpful to include the concept of psychological projection as part of the title of this subsection. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 8.17.200.2 ( talk) 21:55, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
I wrote the last two entries: Since when has the "academic community" cared what Wertham said???? Any attempt to bring Batman or any comic into an academic arguement would have diminished the credibility of the speaker....Wertham was never great in any academic circle....So the statement that homosexual interpretation has been "part of the academic study of Batman since psychologist Fredric Wertham asserted in 1954 Seduction of the Innocent" is both pretentious and misleading....Such "interpretations" are only "projections" of a few who unfortunately are preoccupied with things that interests only themselves and who continue to present the same misleading arguments. A Google/scholar search of "Wertham and Batman" only brings up 360 some articles....a similar search of just Batman brings up over 26,000 articles???? This idea that it has been a part of the academic community is an exageration and should be edited out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.44.166.66 ( talk) 18:52, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
I've waited for years for the "interpretation" section to be removed. To date, nobody has provided a logical reason as to why this still exists. If you were to pick up a legitimate encyclopedia, you would never find a section such as this one.
I am not offended by the content, but third-party interpretations are hardly encyclopedia material. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.170.237.36 ( talk) 00:54, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
If people are so quick to remove this section, then can somebody explain why panels like this exist? I would like a serious answer to this question. (Also, it seems like this should be the new picture to use in the bottom section.) SineSwiper ( talk) 13:10, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
To be perfectly honest, what's depicted are the kind of innocent (and unintended) things you do when you DON'T realize there's another point of view out there. The creators were just making a playful "kids story", that not for one second would they have considered the sexual undertones. The intended audience was not adults, so there is NO sexual undertone at all. When and adult looks at it, and tries to apply a sexual connotation, all they're really doing is distorting the original presentation into meaning something it was never intended to mean. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.193.222.63 ( talk) 15:22, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
How about mentioning Batgirl, Knightwing etc in the Partners section. Not only just Robin.
Batmans sucks donkey nuts and eats monkey tits. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.30.121.23 ( talk) 21:14, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
I was reading the articale, and i noticed that it says the location of the Batcave is unknown, but it is said at points in the story that it is placed on an island on the outskirts of Gotham, near the important Arkham Aylum.---> [1] But as of now, this profile cannot edit the page, being semi-protected. Would someone please insert this under the 'Batcave' portion of the articale, and reference it to that link? Thank you. -- Pentazemin ( talk) 03:06, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
I noticed that in the 1950's-1960's section it refers to Superman #76 as "The Mightiest Team in the World", but in actuality it was titled "The Mightiest Team on Earth" as seen in the following link http://www.comicvine.com/superman-the-mightiest-team-on-earth/37-120155/ Also, in the "Adaptations in other Media", it states, "The Dark Knight also pays homage to the comic Batman by making the characters eyes white during a minor scene in the movie." It should say, "The animated series Batman," not, "The comic Batman." JohnKnee317 ( talk) 03:53, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
just out of curiosity, does anyone know the name of the comic in which batman kicked the jla's butts just to prove that he could? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.89.24.211 ( talk) 05:38, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
I agree with Arcayne on this edit. How do we know that the bibliography covers these? Lord Sesshomaru ( talk • edits) 19:00, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
I've made an edit to the bruce wayne section, segregating the basic Bruce Wayne premises into one para, and the comparisons to superman into the other. ThuranX ( talk) 21:22, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
That being said, most of your added citations appear to be helpful, though the ones in th costume section - which added my name in the reference (what the hell was that about?) were pretty useless. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 19:59, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
Hey everyone, a while ago I did some heavy work on this article, rewriting much of the prose and incoporating most of the references now included. My intention was to avert another Feature Article Review; after writing some Featured Articles myself, I came to the conclusion that the Batman article at that time (poorly written in places, marred with fancruft, only cited with about 18 footnotes, many of them to issues instead of reliable secondary sources) did not fit the criteria. I had finished work on most of the article when a couple of editing debates came up that soured me on working on it, even though I had put so much work into it. The places were citations are requested are virtually all in spots I planned to rewrite before I stopped working on the article. I'm not sure I want to start working on it again, but I want to stress that when rewriting and sourcing the section, rely on the best secondary sources, ie. the Daniels book, Wright, various peer-reviewed academic essay. Think "what does a person who knows nothing about Batman need to know?" For one, they certainly don't need an explanation of the Bat-signal beyond "the police use it to ask for Batman's help". I was actually planning to remove the separate Bat-signal section and just work a one-sentence mention of it in somewhere appropriate. WesleyDodds ( talk) 02:45, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
I've attempted to source and rewrite bits of the article. Hiding T 20:06, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
I recall an interview with Bale (or possibly Nolan) that said that the Batman Begins portrayal wasn't Batman/Bruce Wayne but rather Batman/Bruce Wayne/Millionaire-Playboy-Bruce-Wayne. I can't find the ref again, of course, but will keep look... unless someone else knows it. Duggy 1138 ( talk) 10:44, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Why the constant deletion of my Balance, Bruce Wayne/Batman argument? It is a perfectly valid point, If you read Batman 515 you'll notice he talks abut keeping a balance between Bruce Wayne and Batman, knowing who Batman is but not knowing who Bruce Wayne is. Again in Batman 542 he talks about keeping a balance in the narrative, Bruce Wayne must be the one to save Batman from the point of obsession and Batman must be the one to save Bruce Wayne from complete self-absorbtion. I'm perfectly willing to talk out any disputes we may have over the issue. Zero no Kamen ( talk) 19:31, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
Is there any official listing on Batman's height. I know that he is very tall in the comics but the actors that have portrayed him in film are average sized. My guess is that he is around 6' 6" judgeing by the comic books of course.
- - Yes, there is: http://www.dcuguide.com/who.php?name=batman [1](a transcription of the old DC Who's Who) lists him as 6'2" and 210 lbs. Generally, Who's Who is seen as canonical, much like the OHOTMU is for Marvel. Alparrott ( talk) 00:30, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
I read the article and it came up as really curious that after the article's tone goes to state that the camp phase of the character ended in the 1980's, then goes off to portray the 1960's version of the car in the section "Equipment". Furthermore, when it was added to serve as an illustration of the vehicle the article was referring to with the machine guns, it was taken down with the comment "we cannot have 2 pictures for the same section". First off, who says we can't? and second, why stick with the 60's car instead of any of the other sources or iterations the car has gone through? - we could stay with any, or all, better yet, we should settle to stay with the most current version appearing in the comics. Bruce_Kenobi April 24th 2008 13:05 GMT-5
I think it'd be quite an accomplishment if we could make a seperate fictional biography page so that the one here can be truncated and the detail added in on a seperate page with headings to make it easier to find arcs, like Spidey has. Tony2Times ( talk) 21:57, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
Should it be mentioned that Batman is the only being (Superman survived it, Wonderwoman deflected it with ther bracelets) to successfully evade Darkseid's Omega Beam (effect)? This happened in JLU episode 5x13'Destroyer', so I'm not sure if people believe this canonical? Myself0101 ( talk) 10:37, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
In many of the movies and games of Batman he has been shown to use unknown means (which tend to look like fear or torture) to gain information that no one else has the skill to get from many criminals and eniemies, Does anyone know exactly what he does? and if he uses this ability in the comics then its canon with his abilities so why isn't it noted down somewhere? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.197.173.165 ( talk) 14:23, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
In someways, couldn't batman be described as the protagonist version of Jason Voorhees? Both are shadowy figures with a dark past, and both lack any supernatural powers other than shear strength. Both are dark and reclusive, showing little emotion or mercy for their enemies, and both are often portrayed as effectively invincible. The only difference is that Batman kills those who are threats to the city, while Jason kills those who tread on the grounds of the camp where he died. Fusion7 ( talk • contribs) 00:13, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
I do see some similarities. Especially in Frank Miller's "Return of the Dark Knight". He was shot,stabbed, and beat with a wrench and yet managed to survive and recover.
What a random thing to say. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.60.77.248 ( talk) 00:06, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
I do agree that you are right with the similarities but it doesn't belong in this article. In all reality you can actually find similarities and diffrences between most things. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Imavapmpire ( talk • contribs) 19:35, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
In light of the events which take place in the new movie (The Dark Knight), I've decided to attempt again to add this section. There is mounting evidence that this is justified and I will here provide a couple of links making the case. Spoiler Alert! The Dark Knight is an Unmasked Bush Apologist here: http://www.opednews.com/articles/Spoiler-Alert---The-Dark-K-by-Ray-Louis-080718-217.html AND “Batman Begins”: Bruce Wayne, Defendant here: http://overlawyered.com/2005/06/batman-begins-bruce-wayne-defendant/
From the previous discussions of the deleted section (Batman as a Villain)... "How can ALL my heavily cited edits not be accurate or verifiable? You are not giving me any slack here! Has he ever been guilty of any sort of crime ever? Has anyone ever pointed out those crimes inside and outside of Batman's fictional universe? Your position seems to be that Batman is a hero period. But modern comic book characters are often complex with their criminal dark sides. I can admit that Batman has saved the day more than once -- but that does not mean I will only point out those times and omit from mention any of his crimes." -- Nihilozero ( talk) 08:22, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
If vague notions of Batman's homosexuality can be explored, then cited questions about his criminal behavior should be allowed -- at least for discussion. That obvious fans of the character are deleting the fact that he uses torture tactics is destroying the comprehensive credibility of this page. -- Nihilozero ( talk) 11:36, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
2¢... -ish...
Nihilozero has raised something fairly valid — the character (topic of this article) has a core element from inception to present of fitting the mold of a "villain". This isn't just an aspect of one film or a lone comic book arc, its something multiple comic book writers have commented on.
As section pointing up those inteview and link critical commentary isn't out of line. But...
- J Greb ( talk) 21:51, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
-- Nihilozero ( talk) 22:12, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
I think that "Batman as a Vigilante" would be a better title than "Batman as a Criminal". If the section is even needed at all. Duggy 1138 ( talk) 08:03, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
The third sentence of cultural impact contains a typo pertaining to the word artifact. Currently it is spelled artefact, if someone would please correct.
In the "Enemies" section, the phrase "Many of Batman's foes seam to be..." should be corrected to "Many of Batman's foes seem to be..."
-If you see a typo, go ahead and change it yourself. Thunderflame ( talk) 20:37, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
Tim ( talk) 22:14, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
The persona of Bruce Wayne isn't considered a complete waste. As Wayne, he fired a bunch of people who disagreed with the 'quake-proof the Gotham buildings' plan he had. Lots42 ( talk) 16:06, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
The keywords "Bat-Embargo" redirects here, but this page makes no mention of the said restriction on characters. Shouldn't there be a section explaining that if that term will take a curious searcher here? DanMat6288 ( talk) 01:39, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
I recently read the DC Wiki's article on Blue Beetle. It mentioned that his inventive skill matched Batman. So I was thinking off putting in something like " Ted Kord matches Bruce's inventive and scientific skills." I don't have a clue how to cite it, assuming the other wiki entry IS a valid source. -- ArtifexCrastinus ( talk) 19:52, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
i´ve made the edits i needed to get ten in the sandbox but still i can´t edit —Preceding unsigned comment added by Leavesslaves ( talk • contribs) 19:51, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
I think it's notable to mention that, at least in the current revision of Bruce Wayne's character, he's a teetotaler. I remember seeing his name in older revisions of the list of teetotalers (back when it still included fictional characters) and just thought that was neat, since I'm not aware of any other major super heroes who can be identified as such. I also found this listed on the DC Database wiki's page on "New Earth" Bruce Wayne. I must confess that I haven't done a lot of digging into this subject, and some have pointed out to me that this trait might be somewhat inconsistent over the years with different "versions" of Batman appearing, but I would still argue that it's a defining trait of Bruce Wayne. So I tried to edit this article twice now, both times having it reverted by another user who has the opinion that it's not notable. I strongly disagree, hence posting here. So where do I go from here? Do others users chime in, or do I need to make some kind of request for arbitration? -- Soapergem ( talk) 19:57, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
We should add a section on representations of Batman in different animated and non-animated films and tv shows. Such as simple facts that in Justice League Unlimited Batman's ears are longer and thinner and Robin doesn't exist. Arthritix ( talk) 23:36, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
Why? Duggy 1138 ( talk) 08:15, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
Aside from WesleyDodds, does anyone think that it's scandalous to include Christopher Nolan in the lead section for a recent surge in popularity for Batman? -- Wikipedical ( talk) 19:20, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
Isn't Batman Bruce Wayne's secret identity? It doesn't make much sense to say that Bruce Wayne is Batman's secret identity, since Wayne is the actual individual who become Batman. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.175.136.127 ( talk) 03:25, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
You did make a valid point, but bruce since having become batman has only served as a way for batman to protect his loved ones. So Batman is thus the truer form of the two —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gerkhb5 ( talk • contribs) 03:12, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
Are we waiting for this story to conclude before we make mention of it in Batman's article? -- CmdrClow ( talk) 21:25, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Isn't there a better picture of Batman that could be used? With his tight schedule I can't see him taking the time to do a posedown atop some weird sculpture. 70.54.127.91 ( talk) 00:26, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
I do not agree with Jcbutler's edits, which go against the very teachings of WP:CMC/X. Care to explain? Lord Sesshomaru ( talk • edits) 03:41, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
Actually, I was hoping you would tell me what you found objectionable about my edits. I know WesleyDodds thinks I use unsightly paragraphs, but I've been making an effort to improve the quality of the writing in this article. Now seriously, read the first sentence out loud and tell me what you think...
Batman (originally referred to as the Bat-Man and still referred to at times as the Batman) is a fictional comic book superhero co-created by artist Bob Kane and writer Bill Finger (although only Kane receives official credit), appearing in publications by DC Comics.
That sentence is about as clunky as they get. My edits broke it up into smaller, neater sentences. But apparently, the emerging consensus is that I'm totally wrong, so you tell me... -- Jcbutler ( talk) 03:58, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
I've got no problem with either creation or homosexuality, though creationism would be another matter. But you guys have to admit that I was right about "1950s and 1960s". I mean, come on... -- Jcbutler ( talk) 04:00, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
I think the article is about batman that he was The hero And he was a great man. And i hope my Article has to be true........
love Anna...... fggffg
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.121.110.26 ( talk) 00:55, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
Yes, batman i am a huge fan and i would like to see more or your sidekick in shows, no offence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cosker34 ( talk • contribs) 18:09, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
Found this Chief_Miles_O'Hara under WP:DEP...Does anyone know if this character is "factual"? If so, please add a link from this article... 167.234.12.79 ( talk) 22:10, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
Several articles have Wikified references to "Matches" Malone, but they all redirect to this, the Batman article. This article does, eventually, explain that this is Bruce's underworld alter-ego, but the reader would basically have to read most of this long-ish article to find out. Furthermore, I think "Matches" might be interesting enough for an article of his own. I barely remember anything about how he does that. Does he wear makeup? A face mask? Anything clever he does to disguise himself? Does Bruce Wayne do accents? Is "Matches" Irish? Has there ever been "The Definitive 'Matches' Malone Story"? I think if we don't do a whole article on Matches, he should at least have his very own section in this article, so at least the URL can end in "/#Matches_Malone" or whatever, and the redirects can go straight to that.
-- 63.25.97.52 ( talk) 17:29, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
Silent Shadow of the Bat-Man #1 - Retro 1920s Dark Knight
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_bjAhynSrY
Is this the first filmed appearance of Batman? I know many people think the 1943 serial is, but Silent films come before that. 75.186.111.99 ( talk) 15:23, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
Template:Dmoz2 has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. Qazin ( talk) 22:24, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
This page is a FA, and at a time it might have been one. I don't really want to go though the hassile of renomination, but it seems like there could be changes:
1. The fictional character history almost completely leaves out the animated and film versions of him. admittedly this is difficult, but id almost say spin this off as a separate article, and expand the characterization section.
2. the alternative media section could also be spun off, or divided into multiple sections.
3. I am not sure if the publication history itself should be first. Admittedly comics are batman's original media, but the batman i was raised on was on the animated and film versionsl this a guess, but since comics aren't nearly as popular as they used to be, the majority of the 21st century audience might think of "batman" more on the films rather than the publication. I am pretty sure the 500 million dollar box office grossing of The Dark knight film shows that more ppl watched that film than read All Star Batman and Robin. maybe the other media section should not be at the end, but merged into a broad history section. the comic book publication history then could be moved to its own page. Oldag07 ( talk) 20:05, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
This might seem to be just a bit pinicky, but surely the title of this article should be 'The Batman', as opposed to simply 'Batman'. Just a suggestion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fred Burma ( talk • contribs) 00:42, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
Just woke up and read this?. Is this true?. It says his fate will be sealed on 26 November. Is this true that a new batman will rise or is this the end of batman?.-- SkyWalker ( talk) 08:09, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
Besides, no-one dies permanently in Comic Books, save for Uncle Ben. MightyKombat ( talk) 13:08, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
We are not a news outlet: there is NO intelligent, encyclopedic reason for us to report this until we have multiple, reliable and incontrovertible citation as to the situation. We will not be used as part of the hype. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 19:40, 28 November 2008 (UTC) (who less-than-fondly recalls the brouhaha over the death of Captain America with utter loathing)
I have removed the following text: though officially, DC states that Morrison was "exaggerating". This material is sourced to this news item, which makes it quite clear that there was no official comment made: "DC Comics were refusing to offer on-the-record guidance". The only quote which mentions the death may be exaggerated is recorded in the article as opinion from "sources close to the firm", and is not an official statement from DC. Since this misrepresents the source I have removed it. I have also restored a quote which is reliably sourced and verifiable as existing within the pages of the newspaper through the link provided. Am unclear on what grounds the reliability of the source is being challenged. We are recording that The Metro quote an insider, which is utilising primary and secondary sourcing per WP:PSTS. Hiding T 21:27, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
Would someone who can edit the page please remove this sentence under the Bruce Wayne section?
"In LEGO Batman, players can play as Bruce Wayne as well as Batman.[88]"
It's irrelevant to Bruce Wayne as a character/alter ego to Batman and is a blatant shill for the LEGO Batman video game. It also falls under the "trivia" classification which Wikipedia discourages.
Jmelenson ( talk) 20:03, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
Batman
Mad Hatter
Robin
The Monk
Nightwing
Ventrilequist and Scarface
Batgirl
Mr.Freeze
Alfred
Harley Quinn
Joker
Killer Croc
Bane
Killer Moth
Poison Ivy
Clayface
Catwoman
Ra's Al Gual
Penguin
Riddler
Hush
Two-Face
Man-Bat
Scarecrow
Lady Shiva
Firefly
Arrakhat
Orca
Mr.Zsasz
Lady Vic
Black Mask
Spellbinder
King Snake
Maxie Zeus
Simon Hurt
King Kraken
Damian Wayne/Al Ghul
Talia Al Ghul
Carmine Falcone
Bat-mite
The three ghosts of batman
Merlyn
The Batman of ZUR-EN-ARRH—Preceding
unsigned comment added by
24.158.200.198 (
talk) 23:08, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
Or
Is this whole na na na na stuff some sick joke? Just wanted to know, this entry makes little encyclopedical sense right now. I'd personally revert it, if my stutus allowed it. -- Godai ( talk) 20:24, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
Shouldn't The Dark Knight, The Great Detective, and The Caped Crusader be in his list of aliases? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.107.207.61 ( talk) 18:24, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
Batman was killed by Darkseid's Omega Beam in Final Crisis #6. It should also be noted that Batman actually killed Darkseid as well by firing a god-bullet at him. http://www.wizarduniverse.com/011409batmandead.html 12.37.71.162 ( talk) 01:48, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
Batman is not dead, the body of Bruce Wayne has been destroyed, however he is still alive somewhere. Someone should really add this it seems important.-- ZODtheReaper ( talk) 08:20, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
But the Omega Beam does not kill. ZODtheReaper ( talk) 07:44, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
well you'll be glad to know batman isn't ending, bruce wayne is temporarily lost due to serious mental insufficiencies e.g his mind being blasted through some kind of quantam soulwarp. Yet this is Bruce Wayne, he is the mohammad ali of comic capers, so due to that most true of truths he will return either as batman or maybe just as a wise prophey type figure with a name like "THE BAT" but this is just what I want, well I'd prefer just to see Bruce wayne as Batman, but issue #666 tells us that is quite unlikely or was that a dream, please tell me if you have any knowledge on the matter :)but for now Bruce Wayne's mind RIP —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rocheshred ( talk • contribs) 16:26, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
I am concerned with the following statement, found near the end of the Modern Batman subsection:
This seems to be synthesis; citing the comic doesn't give us license to offer our interpretations on what the events are, which is being implied by the musing "it is suggested". Am I missing something here? - Arcayne (cast a spell) 14:02, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
Grant Morrison clearly stated that it was intended to be Batman at the end of Final Crisis #7. I took out all the "appearance" and "suggested" language from this section and included a citation of the interview ( Smallvillefanatic ( talk) 14:53, 8 June 2009 (UTC)).
This article's talk page indicates that there is an event in it that is a January 12 Selected Anniversary. I do not see anything in the article but since I am not familiar with the topic I will not edit it. Could someone please verify? meshach ( talk) 06:08, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
An interesting book which might be of some use in developing some content, but I don't know where or how much. Batman and Philosophy: The Dark Knight of the Soul edited by William Irwin, Mark D. White, and Robert Arp. ISBN 978-0-470-27030-1, published by John Wiley & Sons in 2008. It is basically a collection of essays regarding Batman and how the characters related to philosophical issues. It's kind of, well, weird, but might have some material which might be usable. I'm not particularly sure where, though. John Carter ( talk) 17:45, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
While Morrison says that the fate of Bruce Wayne may be addressed, he has confirmed that "this is the end of Bruce Wayne as Batman." ( http://comicbookresources.com:8080/?page=article&id=16024) In anticipation of a Bruce Wayneless future of Batman, I suggest that it will soon be time to have a Batman article, a Dick Grayson article, and a Bruce Wayne article. While the Batman article would still be about the Batman persona, information that pertains specifically to Bruce Wayne would only be in a subsection, as would info about Dick Greyson. May sound drastic, and I imagine this won't be implemented right away, but sooner or later this article will have to reflect this historic change. A gx7 ( talk) 03:09, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
Related to the subject above, another editor has added mention of Dick Grayson as Batman in the article's lead. As I discuss above and here, I don't think that's necessary or appropriate; but since two editors now have added it, I suppose it should be discussed. I've argued my perspective; what do others think? — Josiah Rowe ( talk • contribs) 05:12, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
The fair use of
image:Batman and Robin.jpg in this article is questionable. Listed below is/are the reason(s) for this: • Significance: Non-free content is used only if its presence would significantly increase, or its lack would significantly hinder, understanding the topic of the article. Full policy Mainly it's that the image focuses on Damian, not the central topic of the article. Then again, Dick as Batman isn't the focus of the article either. If the above concern(s) can be addressed in light of the relevant policies and/or guidelines, the image use can be retained. If not, the image needs to be removed from the article. The issue with Batman and Robin.jpg has been addressed. |
- J Greb ( talk) 02:01, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Bruce Wayne is dead. Dick Grayson is now taking the role of Batman. I think there is a good case here for splitting this article into Bruce Wayne and Batman. There are plenty of precedents for this, including Green Lantern, Blue Beetle and Robin (comics). These articles are about the superhero, with separate articles dealing with the individuals themselves.
Some people would argue that this is unnecessary. That Bruce Wayne is so culturally associated with Batman and/or that Batman will someday rise from the dead. With regards to the first point, there is no reason cultural opinion should override the apparent intentions of the company that owns the character (or vice versa). As to the theory that Bruce Wayne will be revived, that raises serious "Wikipedia is not a crystal ball" issues.
Opinions?-- 122.109.145.31 ( talk) 10:37, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
For once in my life I agree with J Greb. Oh and Greb on Battle for the Cowl I put down some links. -- Schmeater ( talk) 23:12, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
I believe that Bruce Wayne should be separated into an independant article. With initiation of Dick Grayson into the Batman persona this will be the 3rd (5th if you count the recent Jason Todd and Tim Drake takings of the mantle) time that Batman has been inhabited by someone other than Bruce Wayne for a period of a few issues. I count Jean-Paul Valley and now Dick Grayson for the second time stepping into the cape. For clarities sake of timelining the characters of Batman and Bruce Wayne the articles should be divided. Swrogue ( talk) 20:08, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
Splitting will not work Dick Grayson has his own page with his own history as Batman. Currently Grant Morrison stated that this is not like the Winter Soldier story in Captain America, Bruce is going to come back one way or another. If Bruce Wayne was gone, why would shows still be featuring him and why would they make a third movie. In fact why are they makeing the movie Arkham. That stars Bruce not Dick. Because Bruce is not gone why don't you merge the two articles if this is going to keep on happening. -- Schmeater ( talk) 01:33, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
Batman and Bruce Wayne are identified as one and the same thing.Splitting Bruce Wayne and Batman would leave Batman a hollow article.It would be better if the same article has a larger section on Bruce Wayne. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.163.136.44 ( talk) 08:17, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
Should the Batman be labeled a skilled ninja? ( JoeLoeb ( talk) 18:49, 12 June 2009 (UTC))
yes —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
90.233.144.233 (
talk) 18:53, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
As the article is about Batman, and being that Batman is not exclusivley Bruce Wayne, Dick Grayson should also be added to the infobox as an alter ego of Batman.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.57.94.76 ( talk) 19:09, June 23, 2009 (UTC)
How do we phrase this better? He left a skeleton but he's still alive in prehistoric times; in his own time he's believed dead, but the reader knows otherwise. What if we put quotation marks on "death"? Uthanc ( talk) 10:19, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
I'm noticing the back and forth regarding Bruce Wayne and Dick Grayson, and I think we need to discuss the matter some. While it seems readily apparent (at least to me) that Bruce is not dead but somewhere/somewhen else, the character isn't gone forever, and will never resume the role. Added to the prolific body of Bruce's Batman still making money for DC in other mags, it seems equally clear that he will be back when this latest marketing stunt is done (or the chumps at DC realize they are essentially playing with their futures, whichever happens first).
That said, we don't have a
crystal ball that tells us this. What the sources have said, and what those in charge of the character have explicitly stated is that Dick Grayson assumes the role. Period, as in it is not an interpretation. Grayson is the Bat.
The infobox and Lede should reflect that. -
Arcayne
(cast a spell) 03:12, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
- "When I started out I had that in mind, and I thought we'd finally prove that nobody else could be Batman. But I do believe certain aspects of RIP were about how nobody but this guy could be Batman. I think with this, it's fun to start by seeing what happens when someone else tries. Sometimes it goes wrong, and sometimes it goes really well. Some of the things these guys are doing are things that Bruce Wayne would never have thought to do." ( 2)
(de-dent)
It feels like a definite move away from keeping the article focused on the single character.
The changes to the body text all fall into "After the character (Wayne) was killed/written out, these in-story ramifications happened." That's very reasonable, needed even.
Adding a second character to the infobox though... That's moving to "This article is following the cowl", I'm not sure that's a good idea. -
J Greb (
talk) 21:43, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
Bruce Wayne Is Batman They're just taking him off for a little to make money he'll be back —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.236.89.68 ( talk) 02:39, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
Look how they recognized everyone who was the flash. Why not dot the same here? It would satify everyone. Would it not? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_(comics) -P.O —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.12.140.195 ( talk) 02:31, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
Some back and forth seems to be emerging from a change in the Lede paragraph discussing different efforts "to return the character to his dark roots," An editor keeps adding Timm's Batman kids series of the 1990's. I've ended up removing it twice, as it isn't part of that movement towards darkness, imo. The children' show isn't cited as such. Thoughts? - Arcayne (cast a spell) 21:07, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
I looked at the article for Batman:TAS and apparently on the audio commentary for "On Leather Wings" Timm talks about the gritty noir influence of the Burton films. ArtistScientist ( talk) 06:28, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
I've been removing as it pops up the following information:
- Grayson is more affable with the Gotham City Police Department (which has stated "This new Batman is working for us" [3]), having been a police officer at one point himself. He is more overt in tackling crime, choosing not to disable security cameras [3] and never ceasing to talk during fights [3]. Grayson's acrobatic background also makes him more inclined to high-flying maneuvers [3] [4] 1.
This most recent offering was from the anon 121.91.168.220. The previous time this exact edit was offered was a series ( 2, 3) of cumulative edits by anon 119.12.112.219. Now, I must admit, between these two versions I asked for citations, and the second version does seem to cite the comic books wherein these instances occur. However, there is an evaluative, or deductive reasoning required to string these different facts together like pearls - all of which violates our synthesis policy. I've removed it now for the second time. I think we cannot re-add it unless a reliable source makes these connections for us. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 11:48, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
It looks as if there's been a bit of an edit war over whether or not to include Bill Finger as uncredited co-creator of Batman in the infobox. My feeling is that since the article has substantial cited material describing Finger's contributions to the creation of Batman, it's appropriate for the infobox to reflect that. I haven't looked through the article history to see how long Finger has been listed, but since there was some back-and-forth I figured it was worth discussing here. — Josiah Rowe ( talk • contribs) 14:26, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
4 times Batman/Bruce Wayne Secret Id almost exposed on 1960's Batman: Egghead used his super-intellect to reason that only a millionaire could afford crime fighting gadgets-and of the three millionaires of Gotham City one has a French accent and one is a southpaw-leaving only Bruce Wayne. Batman/Wayne tricks Egghead into disbelieving his own reasoning. The only other villian to deduce Batman's identity is King Tut-once by placing a tracking bug on the Batmobile and the other time by accidently mining a tunnel into the Batcave-but Batman manages to defeat King Tut each time-once by pubilcly discrediting him and the other by tricking him into causing amenisa on himself.) Ironicaly two of the series regular supervillians came close to Batman's real Identity:
Sexual Preference Is Not Encyclopedic Material —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.170.238.33 ( talk) 05:36, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
Werther's accusations were the foundation for the CCA, one of the single greatest legally enforced censorship systems in the history of the US. They're incredibly notable to the history of comics, and bcause they are build on Batman and Robin, incredibly notable here. ThuranX ( talk) 04:57, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
Unless someone can give a good reason why, I think there should be a section on Batmans romantic encounters. It is a rather important part of the overarching storyline, and its worthwhile to mention the other characters involved in that capacity —Preceding unsigned comment added by Brinlong ( talk • contribs) 04:25, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
It's trivial. There's been little to no authoritative writing on the matter, excepting those cases where it refers to the amping up of his 'playboy lifestyle' as a contrast to the pre-werther era, and to distance from Werther's ideas. There's little about the 'long term love of X Y or Z(atanna)' for example. ThuranX ( talk) 04:58, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
There is a lot of info in this article that seems to have been selected through favouritism. For example, why is one of Batman's alter egos listed as "Matches Mallone"? It's specific to a very particular era which is not the present and it's not basic to the mythology. Similarly, why are Nightwing and Batgirl still listed as Batman's allies? I suspect the childhood memories of this article's editors may be playing a part in the selection of information, rather than what is canon and what is not. ArtistScientist ( talk) 13:08, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
Also, why the heavy note about Dick? I understand he's subbing again, but is that really something we need to note in the "Characterization" area as well as the intro? I think we could stand to remove the former bit (at minimum),as it's basically just some quotes from Morrison. At the end of the day, Bruce'll be back, and we'll be (for the most part) ditching all the stuff about Dick, anyway. Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 17:34, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
Judd Winick. 2009. Batman #688.
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Grant Morrison. 2009. Batman and Robin #2.
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | Archive 9 | Archive 10 | Archive 11 | → | Archive 13 |
He said "Batman stories are psychologically homosexual" and "The Batman type of story may stimulate children to homosexual fantasies, of the nature of which they may be unconscious" and "Only someone ignorant of the fundamentals of psychiatry and of the psychopathology of sex can fail to realize a subtle atmosphere of homoeroticism which pervades the adventures of the mature 'Batman' and his young friend 'Robin'". I think children are ignorant of the fundamentals of psychiatry.Normally a children would interpretate even a very subtle homossexual relationship in a comics as friendship or maybe in the case of Batman and Robin as brotherhood or maybe a father-son relationship.
The so called controversy is tiresome. Can someone edit: Such homosexual interpretations continue to attract attention. One notable example and change it to: Such controversial debates continue. One notable example.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 8.17.200.2 ( talk) 21:21, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
In psychology, psychological projection (or projection bias) is a defense mechanism where a person's personal attributes, unacceptable or unwanted thoughts, and/or emotions are ascribed onto another person or people. According to Wade, Tavris (2000) projection occurs when a person's own unacceptable or threatening feelings are repressed and then attributed to someone else. An example of such simple behavior would be: blame for failure, making an excuse for your own faults by projecting the cause of said failure onto someone else, hence blaming them and not accepting the reality of the failure. One would argue that you are projecting the threatening feelings. Projection reduces anxiety by allowing the expression of the unwanted subconscious impulses or desires without letting the conscious mind recognize them. The issue is not whether the homosexual interpretation is product of the character but of the viewer. It seems that it would be helpful to include the concept of psychological projection as part of the title of this subsection. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 8.17.200.2 ( talk) 21:55, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
I wrote the last two entries: Since when has the "academic community" cared what Wertham said???? Any attempt to bring Batman or any comic into an academic arguement would have diminished the credibility of the speaker....Wertham was never great in any academic circle....So the statement that homosexual interpretation has been "part of the academic study of Batman since psychologist Fredric Wertham asserted in 1954 Seduction of the Innocent" is both pretentious and misleading....Such "interpretations" are only "projections" of a few who unfortunately are preoccupied with things that interests only themselves and who continue to present the same misleading arguments. A Google/scholar search of "Wertham and Batman" only brings up 360 some articles....a similar search of just Batman brings up over 26,000 articles???? This idea that it has been a part of the academic community is an exageration and should be edited out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.44.166.66 ( talk) 18:52, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
I've waited for years for the "interpretation" section to be removed. To date, nobody has provided a logical reason as to why this still exists. If you were to pick up a legitimate encyclopedia, you would never find a section such as this one.
I am not offended by the content, but third-party interpretations are hardly encyclopedia material. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.170.237.36 ( talk) 00:54, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
If people are so quick to remove this section, then can somebody explain why panels like this exist? I would like a serious answer to this question. (Also, it seems like this should be the new picture to use in the bottom section.) SineSwiper ( talk) 13:10, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
To be perfectly honest, what's depicted are the kind of innocent (and unintended) things you do when you DON'T realize there's another point of view out there. The creators were just making a playful "kids story", that not for one second would they have considered the sexual undertones. The intended audience was not adults, so there is NO sexual undertone at all. When and adult looks at it, and tries to apply a sexual connotation, all they're really doing is distorting the original presentation into meaning something it was never intended to mean. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.193.222.63 ( talk) 15:22, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
How about mentioning Batgirl, Knightwing etc in the Partners section. Not only just Robin.
Batmans sucks donkey nuts and eats monkey tits. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.30.121.23 ( talk) 21:14, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
I was reading the articale, and i noticed that it says the location of the Batcave is unknown, but it is said at points in the story that it is placed on an island on the outskirts of Gotham, near the important Arkham Aylum.---> [1] But as of now, this profile cannot edit the page, being semi-protected. Would someone please insert this under the 'Batcave' portion of the articale, and reference it to that link? Thank you. -- Pentazemin ( talk) 03:06, 22 August 2008 (UTC)
I noticed that in the 1950's-1960's section it refers to Superman #76 as "The Mightiest Team in the World", but in actuality it was titled "The Mightiest Team on Earth" as seen in the following link http://www.comicvine.com/superman-the-mightiest-team-on-earth/37-120155/ Also, in the "Adaptations in other Media", it states, "The Dark Knight also pays homage to the comic Batman by making the characters eyes white during a minor scene in the movie." It should say, "The animated series Batman," not, "The comic Batman." JohnKnee317 ( talk) 03:53, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
just out of curiosity, does anyone know the name of the comic in which batman kicked the jla's butts just to prove that he could? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.89.24.211 ( talk) 05:38, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
I agree with Arcayne on this edit. How do we know that the bibliography covers these? Lord Sesshomaru ( talk • edits) 19:00, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
I've made an edit to the bruce wayne section, segregating the basic Bruce Wayne premises into one para, and the comparisons to superman into the other. ThuranX ( talk) 21:22, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
That being said, most of your added citations appear to be helpful, though the ones in th costume section - which added my name in the reference (what the hell was that about?) were pretty useless. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 19:59, 17 April 2008 (UTC)
Hey everyone, a while ago I did some heavy work on this article, rewriting much of the prose and incoporating most of the references now included. My intention was to avert another Feature Article Review; after writing some Featured Articles myself, I came to the conclusion that the Batman article at that time (poorly written in places, marred with fancruft, only cited with about 18 footnotes, many of them to issues instead of reliable secondary sources) did not fit the criteria. I had finished work on most of the article when a couple of editing debates came up that soured me on working on it, even though I had put so much work into it. The places were citations are requested are virtually all in spots I planned to rewrite before I stopped working on the article. I'm not sure I want to start working on it again, but I want to stress that when rewriting and sourcing the section, rely on the best secondary sources, ie. the Daniels book, Wright, various peer-reviewed academic essay. Think "what does a person who knows nothing about Batman need to know?" For one, they certainly don't need an explanation of the Bat-signal beyond "the police use it to ask for Batman's help". I was actually planning to remove the separate Bat-signal section and just work a one-sentence mention of it in somewhere appropriate. WesleyDodds ( talk) 02:45, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
I've attempted to source and rewrite bits of the article. Hiding T 20:06, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
I recall an interview with Bale (or possibly Nolan) that said that the Batman Begins portrayal wasn't Batman/Bruce Wayne but rather Batman/Bruce Wayne/Millionaire-Playboy-Bruce-Wayne. I can't find the ref again, of course, but will keep look... unless someone else knows it. Duggy 1138 ( talk) 10:44, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
Why the constant deletion of my Balance, Bruce Wayne/Batman argument? It is a perfectly valid point, If you read Batman 515 you'll notice he talks abut keeping a balance between Bruce Wayne and Batman, knowing who Batman is but not knowing who Bruce Wayne is. Again in Batman 542 he talks about keeping a balance in the narrative, Bruce Wayne must be the one to save Batman from the point of obsession and Batman must be the one to save Bruce Wayne from complete self-absorbtion. I'm perfectly willing to talk out any disputes we may have over the issue. Zero no Kamen ( talk) 19:31, 19 May 2008 (UTC)
Is there any official listing on Batman's height. I know that he is very tall in the comics but the actors that have portrayed him in film are average sized. My guess is that he is around 6' 6" judgeing by the comic books of course.
- - Yes, there is: http://www.dcuguide.com/who.php?name=batman [1](a transcription of the old DC Who's Who) lists him as 6'2" and 210 lbs. Generally, Who's Who is seen as canonical, much like the OHOTMU is for Marvel. Alparrott ( talk) 00:30, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
I read the article and it came up as really curious that after the article's tone goes to state that the camp phase of the character ended in the 1980's, then goes off to portray the 1960's version of the car in the section "Equipment". Furthermore, when it was added to serve as an illustration of the vehicle the article was referring to with the machine guns, it was taken down with the comment "we cannot have 2 pictures for the same section". First off, who says we can't? and second, why stick with the 60's car instead of any of the other sources or iterations the car has gone through? - we could stay with any, or all, better yet, we should settle to stay with the most current version appearing in the comics. Bruce_Kenobi April 24th 2008 13:05 GMT-5
I think it'd be quite an accomplishment if we could make a seperate fictional biography page so that the one here can be truncated and the detail added in on a seperate page with headings to make it easier to find arcs, like Spidey has. Tony2Times ( talk) 21:57, 18 May 2008 (UTC)
Should it be mentioned that Batman is the only being (Superman survived it, Wonderwoman deflected it with ther bracelets) to successfully evade Darkseid's Omega Beam (effect)? This happened in JLU episode 5x13'Destroyer', so I'm not sure if people believe this canonical? Myself0101 ( talk) 10:37, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
In many of the movies and games of Batman he has been shown to use unknown means (which tend to look like fear or torture) to gain information that no one else has the skill to get from many criminals and eniemies, Does anyone know exactly what he does? and if he uses this ability in the comics then its canon with his abilities so why isn't it noted down somewhere? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.197.173.165 ( talk) 14:23, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
In someways, couldn't batman be described as the protagonist version of Jason Voorhees? Both are shadowy figures with a dark past, and both lack any supernatural powers other than shear strength. Both are dark and reclusive, showing little emotion or mercy for their enemies, and both are often portrayed as effectively invincible. The only difference is that Batman kills those who are threats to the city, while Jason kills those who tread on the grounds of the camp where he died. Fusion7 ( talk • contribs) 00:13, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
I do see some similarities. Especially in Frank Miller's "Return of the Dark Knight". He was shot,stabbed, and beat with a wrench and yet managed to survive and recover.
What a random thing to say. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.60.77.248 ( talk) 00:06, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
I do agree that you are right with the similarities but it doesn't belong in this article. In all reality you can actually find similarities and diffrences between most things. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Imavapmpire ( talk • contribs) 19:35, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
In light of the events which take place in the new movie (The Dark Knight), I've decided to attempt again to add this section. There is mounting evidence that this is justified and I will here provide a couple of links making the case. Spoiler Alert! The Dark Knight is an Unmasked Bush Apologist here: http://www.opednews.com/articles/Spoiler-Alert---The-Dark-K-by-Ray-Louis-080718-217.html AND “Batman Begins”: Bruce Wayne, Defendant here: http://overlawyered.com/2005/06/batman-begins-bruce-wayne-defendant/
From the previous discussions of the deleted section (Batman as a Villain)... "How can ALL my heavily cited edits not be accurate or verifiable? You are not giving me any slack here! Has he ever been guilty of any sort of crime ever? Has anyone ever pointed out those crimes inside and outside of Batman's fictional universe? Your position seems to be that Batman is a hero period. But modern comic book characters are often complex with their criminal dark sides. I can admit that Batman has saved the day more than once -- but that does not mean I will only point out those times and omit from mention any of his crimes." -- Nihilozero ( talk) 08:22, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
If vague notions of Batman's homosexuality can be explored, then cited questions about his criminal behavior should be allowed -- at least for discussion. That obvious fans of the character are deleting the fact that he uses torture tactics is destroying the comprehensive credibility of this page. -- Nihilozero ( talk) 11:36, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
2¢... -ish...
Nihilozero has raised something fairly valid — the character (topic of this article) has a core element from inception to present of fitting the mold of a "villain". This isn't just an aspect of one film or a lone comic book arc, its something multiple comic book writers have commented on.
As section pointing up those inteview and link critical commentary isn't out of line. But...
- J Greb ( talk) 21:51, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
-- Nihilozero ( talk) 22:12, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
I think that "Batman as a Vigilante" would be a better title than "Batman as a Criminal". If the section is even needed at all. Duggy 1138 ( talk) 08:03, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
The third sentence of cultural impact contains a typo pertaining to the word artifact. Currently it is spelled artefact, if someone would please correct.
In the "Enemies" section, the phrase "Many of Batman's foes seam to be..." should be corrected to "Many of Batman's foes seem to be..."
-If you see a typo, go ahead and change it yourself. Thunderflame ( talk) 20:37, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
Tim ( talk) 22:14, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
The persona of Bruce Wayne isn't considered a complete waste. As Wayne, he fired a bunch of people who disagreed with the 'quake-proof the Gotham buildings' plan he had. Lots42 ( talk) 16:06, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
The keywords "Bat-Embargo" redirects here, but this page makes no mention of the said restriction on characters. Shouldn't there be a section explaining that if that term will take a curious searcher here? DanMat6288 ( talk) 01:39, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
I recently read the DC Wiki's article on Blue Beetle. It mentioned that his inventive skill matched Batman. So I was thinking off putting in something like " Ted Kord matches Bruce's inventive and scientific skills." I don't have a clue how to cite it, assuming the other wiki entry IS a valid source. -- ArtifexCrastinus ( talk) 19:52, 2 August 2008 (UTC)
i´ve made the edits i needed to get ten in the sandbox but still i can´t edit —Preceding unsigned comment added by Leavesslaves ( talk • contribs) 19:51, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
I think it's notable to mention that, at least in the current revision of Bruce Wayne's character, he's a teetotaler. I remember seeing his name in older revisions of the list of teetotalers (back when it still included fictional characters) and just thought that was neat, since I'm not aware of any other major super heroes who can be identified as such. I also found this listed on the DC Database wiki's page on "New Earth" Bruce Wayne. I must confess that I haven't done a lot of digging into this subject, and some have pointed out to me that this trait might be somewhat inconsistent over the years with different "versions" of Batman appearing, but I would still argue that it's a defining trait of Bruce Wayne. So I tried to edit this article twice now, both times having it reverted by another user who has the opinion that it's not notable. I strongly disagree, hence posting here. So where do I go from here? Do others users chime in, or do I need to make some kind of request for arbitration? -- Soapergem ( talk) 19:57, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
We should add a section on representations of Batman in different animated and non-animated films and tv shows. Such as simple facts that in Justice League Unlimited Batman's ears are longer and thinner and Robin doesn't exist. Arthritix ( talk) 23:36, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
Why? Duggy 1138 ( talk) 08:15, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
Aside from WesleyDodds, does anyone think that it's scandalous to include Christopher Nolan in the lead section for a recent surge in popularity for Batman? -- Wikipedical ( talk) 19:20, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
Isn't Batman Bruce Wayne's secret identity? It doesn't make much sense to say that Bruce Wayne is Batman's secret identity, since Wayne is the actual individual who become Batman. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.175.136.127 ( talk) 03:25, 1 September 2008 (UTC)
You did make a valid point, but bruce since having become batman has only served as a way for batman to protect his loved ones. So Batman is thus the truer form of the two —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gerkhb5 ( talk • contribs) 03:12, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
Are we waiting for this story to conclude before we make mention of it in Batman's article? -- CmdrClow ( talk) 21:25, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
Isn't there a better picture of Batman that could be used? With his tight schedule I can't see him taking the time to do a posedown atop some weird sculpture. 70.54.127.91 ( talk) 00:26, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
I do not agree with Jcbutler's edits, which go against the very teachings of WP:CMC/X. Care to explain? Lord Sesshomaru ( talk • edits) 03:41, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
Actually, I was hoping you would tell me what you found objectionable about my edits. I know WesleyDodds thinks I use unsightly paragraphs, but I've been making an effort to improve the quality of the writing in this article. Now seriously, read the first sentence out loud and tell me what you think...
Batman (originally referred to as the Bat-Man and still referred to at times as the Batman) is a fictional comic book superhero co-created by artist Bob Kane and writer Bill Finger (although only Kane receives official credit), appearing in publications by DC Comics.
That sentence is about as clunky as they get. My edits broke it up into smaller, neater sentences. But apparently, the emerging consensus is that I'm totally wrong, so you tell me... -- Jcbutler ( talk) 03:58, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
I've got no problem with either creation or homosexuality, though creationism would be another matter. But you guys have to admit that I was right about "1950s and 1960s". I mean, come on... -- Jcbutler ( talk) 04:00, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
I think the article is about batman that he was The hero And he was a great man. And i hope my Article has to be true........
love Anna...... fggffg
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.121.110.26 ( talk) 00:55, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
Yes, batman i am a huge fan and i would like to see more or your sidekick in shows, no offence. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cosker34 ( talk • contribs) 18:09, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
Found this Chief_Miles_O'Hara under WP:DEP...Does anyone know if this character is "factual"? If so, please add a link from this article... 167.234.12.79 ( talk) 22:10, 24 October 2008 (UTC)
Several articles have Wikified references to "Matches" Malone, but they all redirect to this, the Batman article. This article does, eventually, explain that this is Bruce's underworld alter-ego, but the reader would basically have to read most of this long-ish article to find out. Furthermore, I think "Matches" might be interesting enough for an article of his own. I barely remember anything about how he does that. Does he wear makeup? A face mask? Anything clever he does to disguise himself? Does Bruce Wayne do accents? Is "Matches" Irish? Has there ever been "The Definitive 'Matches' Malone Story"? I think if we don't do a whole article on Matches, he should at least have his very own section in this article, so at least the URL can end in "/#Matches_Malone" or whatever, and the redirects can go straight to that.
-- 63.25.97.52 ( talk) 17:29, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
Silent Shadow of the Bat-Man #1 - Retro 1920s Dark Knight
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_bjAhynSrY
Is this the first filmed appearance of Batman? I know many people think the 1943 serial is, but Silent films come before that. 75.186.111.99 ( talk) 15:23, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
Template:Dmoz2 has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the template's entry on the Templates for Deletion page. Thank you. Qazin ( talk) 22:24, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
This page is a FA, and at a time it might have been one. I don't really want to go though the hassile of renomination, but it seems like there could be changes:
1. The fictional character history almost completely leaves out the animated and film versions of him. admittedly this is difficult, but id almost say spin this off as a separate article, and expand the characterization section.
2. the alternative media section could also be spun off, or divided into multiple sections.
3. I am not sure if the publication history itself should be first. Admittedly comics are batman's original media, but the batman i was raised on was on the animated and film versionsl this a guess, but since comics aren't nearly as popular as they used to be, the majority of the 21st century audience might think of "batman" more on the films rather than the publication. I am pretty sure the 500 million dollar box office grossing of The Dark knight film shows that more ppl watched that film than read All Star Batman and Robin. maybe the other media section should not be at the end, but merged into a broad history section. the comic book publication history then could be moved to its own page. Oldag07 ( talk) 20:05, 23 November 2008 (UTC)
This might seem to be just a bit pinicky, but surely the title of this article should be 'The Batman', as opposed to simply 'Batman'. Just a suggestion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fred Burma ( talk • contribs) 00:42, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
Just woke up and read this?. Is this true?. It says his fate will be sealed on 26 November. Is this true that a new batman will rise or is this the end of batman?.-- SkyWalker ( talk) 08:09, 26 November 2008 (UTC)
Besides, no-one dies permanently in Comic Books, save for Uncle Ben. MightyKombat ( talk) 13:08, 28 November 2008 (UTC)
We are not a news outlet: there is NO intelligent, encyclopedic reason for us to report this until we have multiple, reliable and incontrovertible citation as to the situation. We will not be used as part of the hype. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 19:40, 28 November 2008 (UTC) (who less-than-fondly recalls the brouhaha over the death of Captain America with utter loathing)
I have removed the following text: though officially, DC states that Morrison was "exaggerating". This material is sourced to this news item, which makes it quite clear that there was no official comment made: "DC Comics were refusing to offer on-the-record guidance". The only quote which mentions the death may be exaggerated is recorded in the article as opinion from "sources close to the firm", and is not an official statement from DC. Since this misrepresents the source I have removed it. I have also restored a quote which is reliably sourced and verifiable as existing within the pages of the newspaper through the link provided. Am unclear on what grounds the reliability of the source is being challenged. We are recording that The Metro quote an insider, which is utilising primary and secondary sourcing per WP:PSTS. Hiding T 21:27, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
Would someone who can edit the page please remove this sentence under the Bruce Wayne section?
"In LEGO Batman, players can play as Bruce Wayne as well as Batman.[88]"
It's irrelevant to Bruce Wayne as a character/alter ego to Batman and is a blatant shill for the LEGO Batman video game. It also falls under the "trivia" classification which Wikipedia discourages.
Jmelenson ( talk) 20:03, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
Batman
Mad Hatter
Robin
The Monk
Nightwing
Ventrilequist and Scarface
Batgirl
Mr.Freeze
Alfred
Harley Quinn
Joker
Killer Croc
Bane
Killer Moth
Poison Ivy
Clayface
Catwoman
Ra's Al Gual
Penguin
Riddler
Hush
Two-Face
Man-Bat
Scarecrow
Lady Shiva
Firefly
Arrakhat
Orca
Mr.Zsasz
Lady Vic
Black Mask
Spellbinder
King Snake
Maxie Zeus
Simon Hurt
King Kraken
Damian Wayne/Al Ghul
Talia Al Ghul
Carmine Falcone
Bat-mite
The three ghosts of batman
Merlyn
The Batman of ZUR-EN-ARRH—Preceding
unsigned comment added by
24.158.200.198 (
talk) 23:08, 29 November 2008 (UTC)
Or
Is this whole na na na na stuff some sick joke? Just wanted to know, this entry makes little encyclopedical sense right now. I'd personally revert it, if my stutus allowed it. -- Godai ( talk) 20:24, 14 December 2008 (UTC)
Shouldn't The Dark Knight, The Great Detective, and The Caped Crusader be in his list of aliases? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.107.207.61 ( talk) 18:24, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
Batman was killed by Darkseid's Omega Beam in Final Crisis #6. It should also be noted that Batman actually killed Darkseid as well by firing a god-bullet at him. http://www.wizarduniverse.com/011409batmandead.html 12.37.71.162 ( talk) 01:48, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
Batman is not dead, the body of Bruce Wayne has been destroyed, however he is still alive somewhere. Someone should really add this it seems important.-- ZODtheReaper ( talk) 08:20, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
But the Omega Beam does not kill. ZODtheReaper ( talk) 07:44, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
well you'll be glad to know batman isn't ending, bruce wayne is temporarily lost due to serious mental insufficiencies e.g his mind being blasted through some kind of quantam soulwarp. Yet this is Bruce Wayne, he is the mohammad ali of comic capers, so due to that most true of truths he will return either as batman or maybe just as a wise prophey type figure with a name like "THE BAT" but this is just what I want, well I'd prefer just to see Bruce wayne as Batman, but issue #666 tells us that is quite unlikely or was that a dream, please tell me if you have any knowledge on the matter :)but for now Bruce Wayne's mind RIP —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rocheshred ( talk • contribs) 16:26, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
I am concerned with the following statement, found near the end of the Modern Batman subsection:
This seems to be synthesis; citing the comic doesn't give us license to offer our interpretations on what the events are, which is being implied by the musing "it is suggested". Am I missing something here? - Arcayne (cast a spell) 14:02, 3 May 2009 (UTC)
Grant Morrison clearly stated that it was intended to be Batman at the end of Final Crisis #7. I took out all the "appearance" and "suggested" language from this section and included a citation of the interview ( Smallvillefanatic ( talk) 14:53, 8 June 2009 (UTC)).
This article's talk page indicates that there is an event in it that is a January 12 Selected Anniversary. I do not see anything in the article but since I am not familiar with the topic I will not edit it. Could someone please verify? meshach ( talk) 06:08, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
An interesting book which might be of some use in developing some content, but I don't know where or how much. Batman and Philosophy: The Dark Knight of the Soul edited by William Irwin, Mark D. White, and Robert Arp. ISBN 978-0-470-27030-1, published by John Wiley & Sons in 2008. It is basically a collection of essays regarding Batman and how the characters related to philosophical issues. It's kind of, well, weird, but might have some material which might be usable. I'm not particularly sure where, though. John Carter ( talk) 17:45, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
While Morrison says that the fate of Bruce Wayne may be addressed, he has confirmed that "this is the end of Bruce Wayne as Batman." ( http://comicbookresources.com:8080/?page=article&id=16024) In anticipation of a Bruce Wayneless future of Batman, I suggest that it will soon be time to have a Batman article, a Dick Grayson article, and a Bruce Wayne article. While the Batman article would still be about the Batman persona, information that pertains specifically to Bruce Wayne would only be in a subsection, as would info about Dick Greyson. May sound drastic, and I imagine this won't be implemented right away, but sooner or later this article will have to reflect this historic change. A gx7 ( talk) 03:09, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
Related to the subject above, another editor has added mention of Dick Grayson as Batman in the article's lead. As I discuss above and here, I don't think that's necessary or appropriate; but since two editors now have added it, I suppose it should be discussed. I've argued my perspective; what do others think? — Josiah Rowe ( talk • contribs) 05:12, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
The fair use of
image:Batman and Robin.jpg in this article is questionable. Listed below is/are the reason(s) for this: • Significance: Non-free content is used only if its presence would significantly increase, or its lack would significantly hinder, understanding the topic of the article. Full policy Mainly it's that the image focuses on Damian, not the central topic of the article. Then again, Dick as Batman isn't the focus of the article either. If the above concern(s) can be addressed in light of the relevant policies and/or guidelines, the image use can be retained. If not, the image needs to be removed from the article. The issue with Batman and Robin.jpg has been addressed. |
- J Greb ( talk) 02:01, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
Bruce Wayne is dead. Dick Grayson is now taking the role of Batman. I think there is a good case here for splitting this article into Bruce Wayne and Batman. There are plenty of precedents for this, including Green Lantern, Blue Beetle and Robin (comics). These articles are about the superhero, with separate articles dealing with the individuals themselves.
Some people would argue that this is unnecessary. That Bruce Wayne is so culturally associated with Batman and/or that Batman will someday rise from the dead. With regards to the first point, there is no reason cultural opinion should override the apparent intentions of the company that owns the character (or vice versa). As to the theory that Bruce Wayne will be revived, that raises serious "Wikipedia is not a crystal ball" issues.
Opinions?-- 122.109.145.31 ( talk) 10:37, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
For once in my life I agree with J Greb. Oh and Greb on Battle for the Cowl I put down some links. -- Schmeater ( talk) 23:12, 11 June 2009 (UTC)
I believe that Bruce Wayne should be separated into an independant article. With initiation of Dick Grayson into the Batman persona this will be the 3rd (5th if you count the recent Jason Todd and Tim Drake takings of the mantle) time that Batman has been inhabited by someone other than Bruce Wayne for a period of a few issues. I count Jean-Paul Valley and now Dick Grayson for the second time stepping into the cape. For clarities sake of timelining the characters of Batman and Bruce Wayne the articles should be divided. Swrogue ( talk) 20:08, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
Splitting will not work Dick Grayson has his own page with his own history as Batman. Currently Grant Morrison stated that this is not like the Winter Soldier story in Captain America, Bruce is going to come back one way or another. If Bruce Wayne was gone, why would shows still be featuring him and why would they make a third movie. In fact why are they makeing the movie Arkham. That stars Bruce not Dick. Because Bruce is not gone why don't you merge the two articles if this is going to keep on happening. -- Schmeater ( talk) 01:33, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
Batman and Bruce Wayne are identified as one and the same thing.Splitting Bruce Wayne and Batman would leave Batman a hollow article.It would be better if the same article has a larger section on Bruce Wayne. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.163.136.44 ( talk) 08:17, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
Should the Batman be labeled a skilled ninja? ( JoeLoeb ( talk) 18:49, 12 June 2009 (UTC))
yes —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
90.233.144.233 (
talk) 18:53, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
As the article is about Batman, and being that Batman is not exclusivley Bruce Wayne, Dick Grayson should also be added to the infobox as an alter ego of Batman.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.57.94.76 ( talk) 19:09, June 23, 2009 (UTC)
How do we phrase this better? He left a skeleton but he's still alive in prehistoric times; in his own time he's believed dead, but the reader knows otherwise. What if we put quotation marks on "death"? Uthanc ( talk) 10:19, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
I'm noticing the back and forth regarding Bruce Wayne and Dick Grayson, and I think we need to discuss the matter some. While it seems readily apparent (at least to me) that Bruce is not dead but somewhere/somewhen else, the character isn't gone forever, and will never resume the role. Added to the prolific body of Bruce's Batman still making money for DC in other mags, it seems equally clear that he will be back when this latest marketing stunt is done (or the chumps at DC realize they are essentially playing with their futures, whichever happens first).
That said, we don't have a
crystal ball that tells us this. What the sources have said, and what those in charge of the character have explicitly stated is that Dick Grayson assumes the role. Period, as in it is not an interpretation. Grayson is the Bat.
The infobox and Lede should reflect that. -
Arcayne
(cast a spell) 03:12, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
- "When I started out I had that in mind, and I thought we'd finally prove that nobody else could be Batman. But I do believe certain aspects of RIP were about how nobody but this guy could be Batman. I think with this, it's fun to start by seeing what happens when someone else tries. Sometimes it goes wrong, and sometimes it goes really well. Some of the things these guys are doing are things that Bruce Wayne would never have thought to do." ( 2)
(de-dent)
It feels like a definite move away from keeping the article focused on the single character.
The changes to the body text all fall into "After the character (Wayne) was killed/written out, these in-story ramifications happened." That's very reasonable, needed even.
Adding a second character to the infobox though... That's moving to "This article is following the cowl", I'm not sure that's a good idea. -
J Greb (
talk) 21:43, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
Bruce Wayne Is Batman They're just taking him off for a little to make money he'll be back —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.236.89.68 ( talk) 02:39, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
Look how they recognized everyone who was the flash. Why not dot the same here? It would satify everyone. Would it not? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_(comics) -P.O —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.12.140.195 ( talk) 02:31, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
Some back and forth seems to be emerging from a change in the Lede paragraph discussing different efforts "to return the character to his dark roots," An editor keeps adding Timm's Batman kids series of the 1990's. I've ended up removing it twice, as it isn't part of that movement towards darkness, imo. The children' show isn't cited as such. Thoughts? - Arcayne (cast a spell) 21:07, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
I looked at the article for Batman:TAS and apparently on the audio commentary for "On Leather Wings" Timm talks about the gritty noir influence of the Burton films. ArtistScientist ( talk) 06:28, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
I've been removing as it pops up the following information:
- Grayson is more affable with the Gotham City Police Department (which has stated "This new Batman is working for us" [3]), having been a police officer at one point himself. He is more overt in tackling crime, choosing not to disable security cameras [3] and never ceasing to talk during fights [3]. Grayson's acrobatic background also makes him more inclined to high-flying maneuvers [3] [4] 1.
This most recent offering was from the anon 121.91.168.220. The previous time this exact edit was offered was a series ( 2, 3) of cumulative edits by anon 119.12.112.219. Now, I must admit, between these two versions I asked for citations, and the second version does seem to cite the comic books wherein these instances occur. However, there is an evaluative, or deductive reasoning required to string these different facts together like pearls - all of which violates our synthesis policy. I've removed it now for the second time. I think we cannot re-add it unless a reliable source makes these connections for us. - Arcayne (cast a spell) 11:48, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
It looks as if there's been a bit of an edit war over whether or not to include Bill Finger as uncredited co-creator of Batman in the infobox. My feeling is that since the article has substantial cited material describing Finger's contributions to the creation of Batman, it's appropriate for the infobox to reflect that. I haven't looked through the article history to see how long Finger has been listed, but since there was some back-and-forth I figured it was worth discussing here. — Josiah Rowe ( talk • contribs) 14:26, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
4 times Batman/Bruce Wayne Secret Id almost exposed on 1960's Batman: Egghead used his super-intellect to reason that only a millionaire could afford crime fighting gadgets-and of the three millionaires of Gotham City one has a French accent and one is a southpaw-leaving only Bruce Wayne. Batman/Wayne tricks Egghead into disbelieving his own reasoning. The only other villian to deduce Batman's identity is King Tut-once by placing a tracking bug on the Batmobile and the other time by accidently mining a tunnel into the Batcave-but Batman manages to defeat King Tut each time-once by pubilcly discrediting him and the other by tricking him into causing amenisa on himself.) Ironicaly two of the series regular supervillians came close to Batman's real Identity:
Sexual Preference Is Not Encyclopedic Material —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.170.238.33 ( talk) 05:36, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
Werther's accusations were the foundation for the CCA, one of the single greatest legally enforced censorship systems in the history of the US. They're incredibly notable to the history of comics, and bcause they are build on Batman and Robin, incredibly notable here. ThuranX ( talk) 04:57, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
Unless someone can give a good reason why, I think there should be a section on Batmans romantic encounters. It is a rather important part of the overarching storyline, and its worthwhile to mention the other characters involved in that capacity —Preceding unsigned comment added by Brinlong ( talk • contribs) 04:25, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
It's trivial. There's been little to no authoritative writing on the matter, excepting those cases where it refers to the amping up of his 'playboy lifestyle' as a contrast to the pre-werther era, and to distance from Werther's ideas. There's little about the 'long term love of X Y or Z(atanna)' for example. ThuranX ( talk) 04:58, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
There is a lot of info in this article that seems to have been selected through favouritism. For example, why is one of Batman's alter egos listed as "Matches Mallone"? It's specific to a very particular era which is not the present and it's not basic to the mythology. Similarly, why are Nightwing and Batgirl still listed as Batman's allies? I suspect the childhood memories of this article's editors may be playing a part in the selection of information, rather than what is canon and what is not. ArtistScientist ( talk) 13:08, 14 September 2009 (UTC)
Also, why the heavy note about Dick? I understand he's subbing again, but is that really something we need to note in the "Characterization" area as well as the intro? I think we could stand to remove the former bit (at minimum),as it's basically just some quotes from Morrison. At the end of the day, Bruce'll be back, and we'll be (for the most part) ditching all the stuff about Dick, anyway. Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 17:34, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
Judd Winick. 2009. Batman #688.
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).Grant Morrison. 2009. Batman and Robin #2.
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).