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Shibboleth, why did you redirect the page, despite the passionate comments by the previous anonymous contributor? Paranoid 10:41, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Nice to see an "anime game" section article that was actually balanced, mostly accurate, and well written. I've made several changes to correct a few misconceptions that had crept in, particularly:
Haeleth 22:03, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
An acquaintance of mine who is knowledgable about the genre (Olf le Fol; you may know him) complained that this article is backwards; visual novels are a subset of adventure games, not the other way around. He also said that some game articles are tagged as VNs when the Japanese consider them AVGs ( Atlach=Nacha was implied, though I haven't played it, and Yami to Bōshi to Hon no Tabibito is probably one from my own observations.) If this is the case, can we remedy this without making the article terminally confusing for the English-speaking gamer? - Seventh Holy Scripture 17:33, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
Blade is a commercial product with no English games produced with it. Ren'py has had several games produced with it. Please stop spamming this page. Ashibaka tock 22:15, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
Sorry I readded improper link w/o checking the chat area first. I'm a wikipedia newbie.. Whisperstorm 09:21, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
This is a great article, well written and all. However it could probably benefit from a few good references at the bottom of the page.-- SidiLemine 11:16, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
While I recognise that free images are vastly preferable to copyrighted images, I don't think it's really reasonable to illustrate an article about a game genre with a fake "screenshot". Particularly not if the caption claims it's a real screenshot of a "typical" game, which the Wikipe-tan image definitely would not be. (For one thing, typical visual novels are not written in Romance languages... appropriate though it would be if they were!)
A better solution, if the Kanon image is felt to be undesirable, would be to use a screenshot of a free game, or otherwise to acquire permission to release a screenshot under a free license. There are plenty of authors, certainly of free games, who would probably be very happy to give permission to place a single screenshot in the public domain or under the GFDL. If time permits, I'll put some feelers out. — Haeleth Talk 17:58, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
I took the liberty of taking the Wikipe-tan image and an image of a classroom I found in the Wikimedia commons, plugging them into Ren'Py, and producing the image you see to the right. While it is in English, it does have the advantage that the drop-shadowing is similar to what you see in real games, rather then the odd blurring used in the current shot.
I think a screenshot from a real game would probably be the best thing, but hopefully this screenshot is better than an image made in photoshop. I can fairly easily change the text to whatever is wanted.
I'm not going to add this to the page without someone more wiki-competent approving. PyTom 21:30, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
It means "Mr. Smith". Ashi b aka tock 15:06, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
This is a pretty blatant self-reference. Surely someone can make one that at least doesn't explicitly reference Wikipedia, and preferably doesn't use Wikipe-tan (do we have any other freely licensed anime-style drawings?). -- SPUI ( T - C) 22:17, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
While it's true that free images are better than copyrighted ones on which we assert fair use, this image doesn't seem to fit very well. While all we're trying to get is the general idea of visual novels, this is just self-promotion (see WP:ASR). I think it would be best to at least simulate what a visual novel might say instead of the current caption, and we should still try to get a producer to release a screenshot under a free license, as that would be the best thing for sure. -- Rory096 03:54, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
I was asked on my talk page if I could change the text of the image. I don't mind doing that, but I would prefer not to be the one to decide. -- PyTom 04:07, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
It should actually be possible to find a decent freely-licensed screenshot; there are freely-licensed visual novels, though there quality is presumably usually low. I tried going with a comedy option ( MIT license) but couldn't find a good place to screencap; we should be able to find a somewhat better-quality free game. I'd assume that [1] ( Narcissu) does not allow for screenshots under a free license. -- SPUI ( T - C) 06:37, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
If we do use a modified version of the current image, I suggest the following:
By the way, the specific images used in the collage should be cited so as to satisfy the attribution requirement of the GFDL. -- SPUI ( T - C) 07:07, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
SPUI, the text doesn't have to be anything in particular. Just suggest some lorem ipsum stuff yourself if you don't like it. Ashi b aka tock 05:06, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
I'm trying to figure out if there's consensus here as to what the image should be changed to. I can make just about anything using Ren'Py, but I need to know what I should do. Is an image of Wikipe-tan okay, as it is on Moe anthropomorphism... or should I looks for a screenshot of an actual game? Or should I just be leaving well enough alone? PyTom 07:09, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
I took the liberty of updating the text under Wikipe-tan's pic to, "An image of a visual novel: Visual novels (this example featuring Wikipe-tan) are commonly characterized with dialog boxes and sprites determining the speaker..." Hope it's ok... Anon.
63.97.219.197
05:26, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
Can the first screenshot be anything other than a schoolgirl exposing her bare breasts? I'm surprised this has stayed up for as long as it has. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:58C:180:31C0:59C0:6C9:F958:90FC ( talk) 02:20, 25 December 2019 (UTC)
I've reverted User:SeizureDog's removal of the fan translation section, as I disagree with the reasoning that "Fan translations are technically copy-vios and Wikipedia cannot support them.". Some (most?) fan-translations of doujinshi are done with the consent of the copyright holder, so I don't think that's a problem. Even if it was, I don't think that a mention counts as support... Wikipedia has plenty of articles that mention things that are illegal (For example, Bong describes how to use the device in question), and I don't think that counts as support.
That being said, I think that this section could probably use some work. It might make sense to cover commercial translations as well as fan-translations, and maybe find some sources for it. Or something like that. PyTom 23:20, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
No, translation patches are actually copyright violations. The right to create derivative works (including translations) is covered in copyright. Translation patches are only legal if you don't share them, or if you create an entirely different story to fit in (and thus is not a derivative work of the original). It doesn't matter if the original version is free (unless you mean free use use), it still is covered by copyright. Now, companies may not mind that patches are being made, but like fan fiction, it's still technically copyright infringement. Legality aside, it's really not encyclopedic to talk about unofficial stuff like this. And I hardly see how "international visual novel fans rely mainly on fan translations" when only 2 games have been fully fan-patched when at least 50 have been officially brought over. Basically what this says to me is that 'international' fans are too cheap to buy official visual novels and mostly just pirate them. Which you have to admit, is mostly true anyways; I myself have done so a couple of times, but at least I plan to buy some of them eventually (right now I've got my eye on Kanon for Dreamcast). Of course, we don't get any of the actual popular series, but that still doesn't justify it. I'm not saying we really need to avoid mentioning that visual novels are sometimes fansubbed, but we do need to avoid giving details such as which have been; because then it starts reading like promotion for the translation groups.
Observe this potential slippery slope:
"Some games have unofficial translation patches made for them." (Informs the reader of the practice, but gives no help for obtaining them. This is what I'd be ok with.)
"Planetarian and Tsukihime have had unofficial translation patches made for them." (Implies "this is what you can steal, now go search for it". To me at least.)
"The group Anime Fanboys has created unofficial translation patches for Planetarian and Tsukihime.
Download them here." (Full blown promotion.)
On another point, there's really no need to mention dojinshi being translated; with the author's permission or otherwise. Dojinshi are almost by defination non-notable (unless, like Type-Moon, you just happen to get famous later). Anyways, I'm talking too much.-- SeizureDog 11:49, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
It sounds like the solution to this problem is that we can talk about fan translations, but to do so we should cite reliable external sources. This will take care of a lot of SeizureDog's concerns, but won't ban talking about fan translations. It might be wise to place one of those edit only messages in the section as an extra reminder for WP:SPAM, WP:V, etc. It is a magnet for crap, but fan translations are pretty significant to the topic. We just gotta get sources for that info. -- Ned Scott 21:04, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
A couple of issues remain. I'm not all that comfortable with the Ever17 citation. Moogy's link is to Hirameki's direct sales division, while some of their other titles were distributed via other channels. (I once saw Hourglass of Summer in a bookstore.) So I don't think this is properly cited. I'm also not sure if it makes sense to cite the best selling non-eroge, when eroge seem to sell more. Finally, I'm not sure if it's true that "all major visual novels are produced in Japan"... are there any major VNs that are produced in China or Korea? PyTom 20:39, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
The previous discussion was about 1 year old, so I figure I'd start a brand new section.
In Japan, Visual Novels (or just "Novels") is a distinct genre from the "Adventure Game" (abbreviated as either "ADV" or "AVG") genre. Their main difference is essentially the difference between a paper back novel and a "Choose Your Own Adventure" game book. For Visual Novels, there is no branch in the storyline, no real decisions to make, no multiple endings. For ADV, the story is actually interactive.
When do we follow what is common, and when do we accuse something of being a common misnomer?
To me, calling ADV games "Dating Sims" is as much a misnomer as calling them "Visual Novels". However, this article had a distinct treatment between their relationship. Where is the line? - Afker 10:06, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Consider another analogy then: Hentai, a blatant English misappropriation of a Japanese term. Rather then restricting itself to the Japanese meaning, or redirecting to the more correct term Ecchi, the article describes the English usage with several explanatory notes on the true meaning of the word. It's quite similar to the situation we have here, in my opinion.
Anyway, to lay out my thoughts on the matter clearly:
In any case, I'll do some rearrangement of the page to make those notes more prominent; hopefully that will be to your satisfaction. - Seventh Holy Scripture 09:03, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
This article doesn't contain any info on the history of visual novels... When was the first one released? What was it like technically? Try to name a few important visual novels. Shinobu 03:27, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
Though this suggestion is not as fundamental as others here, I believe that a little better coverage of the importance of Phoenix Wright being a hit outside of Japan would enhance the article. I think it should have a small section describing how it is the first ADV game to be considered a true hit outside of fan cycles, and a "See Also:" link to the Ace Attorney wikipedia page. People reading this will become aware of Phoenix Wright being an ADV game and will see the potential the genre holds outside of eroge. Gaming otaku 21:31, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
( talk) 09:15, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
Phoenix Wright is listed under the Visual Novels section at DMOZ. Admittedly, I did this, but nobody has changed it. Shii (tock) 17:54, 22 January 2009 (UTC) I don't see a problem with listing Ace Attorney as a visual novel just because it has an above-average amount of screen animation. Plenty of games that are widely considered visual novels have a decent amount of screen animation, so I don't think that would disqualify a game. If anything, I'd worry more about the gameplay aspects of the series, but even there they seem to be dominated by the visual novel parts. — PyTom ( talk) 21:53, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
I've noticed that part of the article seems to derive verbatim from the Blade Visual Novel Engine webpage. Mizunori ( talk) 23:15, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
I deleted those because they were already linked in the template at the top. 68.148.164.166 ( talk) 08:05, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
Since Ryukishi07, the creator of Umineko no Naku Koro ni, appears to have officially endorsed [2] [3] the fan translation of his work done by Witch Hunt, would it now be acceptable to mention and link to it in the "Translations" section (as well as on the Umineko no Naku Koro ni page?) - Seventh Holy Scripture ( talk) 19:22, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
Are they still being ported to the Dreamcast, or is this statement just referring to the fact that they once were? If it is the latter, I think it should be revised to be more clear, as I was under the assumption that the Dreamcast was pretty much dead nowadays... 98.238.188.211 ( talk) 10:09, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
I'll buy Ace Attorney and Snatcher as similar enough to VNs to warrant mention, but unless the later entries in the series have changed greatly since the first DS game that I played, dialogue is hardly the focus of Trauma Center. If any game with some VN-style sequences counts as a visual novel, we might as well mention games like Ar tonelico too... or why not Puzzle Quest? It's got dialogue sequences like that too.
While the page Trauma Center (series) also claims the games are visual novels, the Japanese Wikipedia pages state they are action games and as far as I can tell do not mention visual novels anywhere. I say remove it, anyone else have an opinion? Any Japanese sources that bill the games as visual novels would be of interest as well. - Seventh Holy Scripture ( talk) 04:02, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
Because of the number of start/stub articles that fail and have no hope of ever passing the WP:GNG I've started up a list at User:Jinnai/VN. Right now I'm taking entries off vndb.org. This pertains only to Japanese VNs translated to English. If you want to help feel free to add entries. 陣 内 Jinnai 20:59, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
Look at this...
Sound Novels is a trademark of Chunsoft, which used the term for its novel games such as Portopia Renzoku Satsujin Jiken, Otogirisō, Kamaitachi no Yoru, Machi, 428: Fūsa Sareta Shibuya de (which received a perfect 40/40 score from Famitsu), and more recently 999: Nine Hours, Nine Persons, Nine Doors.
The Portopia Serial Murder Case was released roughly six years before Otogirisou, which is the one first labeled a Sound Novel. And there are some differences between Portopia and the Sound Novels of the future. Therefore, I suggest a change with that part, maybe remove Portopia entirely. That's all. 120.28.64.71 ( talk) 14:53, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
I'll remove 999 as well from the list, then. It's more of an Escape-the-room Visual Novel. 120.28.64.76 ( talk) 06:21, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
Me again. And here's what the Japanese Chunsoft article has to say...
サウンドノベルシリーズ
弟切草 かまいたちの夜 街 〜運命の交差点〜 かまいたちの夜2 監獄島のわらべ唄 かまいたちの夜×3 三日月島事件の真相 忌火起草 428 〜封鎖された渋谷で〜
No 999. Now, I removed both games. And I didn't notice the other mention of Portopia. Thought it was only mentioned in the sound novel list. 120.28.64.76 ( talk) 06:27, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
Can someone please explain to me how the typical visual novel is a "game"? Simply selecting a choice that affects the story is not gameplay. "Classification as by the Japanese" (though wouldn't they specifically classify these as "NVL" anyway?) or "marketing strategy" arguments are not going to help much here. A typical visual novel is little different from the Choose Your Own Adventure books, which are most certainly not games. The article even points out those visual novels which do not have choice at all... how are these games? Where is the gameplay? 174.111.81.238 ( talk) 12:14, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
The only difference between a VN and any other game is the ratio of interaction to cutscene. 111.69.195.193 ( talk) 12:01, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
Except there are many games with no cutscenes. Simply put, visual novels are interactive japanese comics, not video games. To call them games would be as silly as calling motion comics games. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
81.3.45.148 (
talk)
23:03, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
Acording to many sources, including wikipedia, a book is: a set of written, printed, illustrated, or blank sheets, made of ink, paper, parchment, or other materials, usually fastened together to hinge at one side. and a novel is a book of long narrative in literary prose. What I am trying to say is VN's aren't books because they aren't made of paper and they aren't electronic novels/books because you have to make choices in order to progress the story. 'Make your own adventure' books are considered games by alot of people but they are still considered books because you can get a paper version. You cannot have a paper version of a VN as many of them have animated sequences and the visuals in VN's are just as important as the prose. At best you have a argument for motion comics, but even then only maybe in my opinion. Also can whoever keeps editing this page and
Katawa Shoujo page please stop until this discusion is finnished?
DSQ (
talk)
13:35, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
Yes, these "sources" also will tell you there are things called e-books, a physical copy has nothing to do with being a book. Visual Novels are neither books nor games, however. Oh, and I'm not sure why someone would think ratings confirm they're games, but either way it doesn't matter since according to Wikipedia the ESRB, a rating company, is "for computer and video games as well as entertainment software", visual novels are just entertainment software. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.241.173.211 ( talk) 18:31, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
The data inside is all correct, Lost Odyssey and Sakura Wars are RPGs with VN-hybrid elements. However, they are not VNs, they simply have VN elements. Now, nothing in that section is inaccurate, but I'm just questioning the need for it to be in this article.
Note the last two edits. The unnamed editor mistakenly removed it because s/he though (as did I) that Sakura Wars should not be in there, but then I realized that the section only states it has VN-style elements. This means that the revert done right after is correct. I merely question the relevance of this entire section in the first place, as VNs are a very small part of their gameplay, thus making these sections possibly better suited within the History of Eastern role-playing video games article instead. Overmage ( talk) 07:04, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
"While the plots and storytelling of mainstream video games is often criticized, many fans of visual novels hold them up as exceptions and identify this as a strong point of the genre."
Can somebody explain this phrase to me? E.g., criticized for what? -- Beroal ( talk) 15:24, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
From this article in Vietnamese Wikipedia, there is a part that criticism for visual novel from Association of Universities and Colleges Vietnam. I think if possible, please translate it into article, to take a comprehensive look. I use Google translate for paragraph:
In Vietnam, in early September 2012, a series of articles on the website of the Association of Universities and Colleges of non-public has strongly criticized sex game and shared visual novel vie the internet in Vietnam [49]. The first articles of this series reflect only the negative consequences caused by the sex game, however the article then focuses on visual novel for that harm the visual novel is extremely large and the rating, "the vast majority" of these format is "sex game" with the contents of rape, abuse and incest; articles have even attack the player visual novel.[50][51] this has created a wave of strong opposition in the visual novel fans community in Vietnam through the forum and major website [52], and the event is ongoing.
Thanks you. -- 113.180.99.249 ( talk) 06:20, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
Can we find any RS that discusses this term? The closest thing I've found is this blog by a Mangagamer translator(almost NSFW). Majority of online uses (English and Japanese) are game reviews, forums, self-published blogs, etc. The term is mentioned on ja.wikipedia many times but their article on it was deleted as original research ( ja:Wikipedia:削除依頼/抜きゲー), with one editor commenting that sources were not found after 5 years. -- Atlantima ~✿~ ( talk) 14:01, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
Is this the new domain for the fan translation site? <Link removed as leads to spam domain> The current link is broken and even the domain doesn't seem to exist anymore (it redirects to some book on Project Gutenberg). 2604:6000:110C:E007:2189:2FE8:C50C:65F3 ( talk) 04:19, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
Incredibly long article, with lots of jargon tossed about that someone unfamiliar may not understand. In addition, the placement of certain elements, such as an example image, may need to be moved to make more sense. Also, because it needs to be repeated: Incredibly long article. Please find points to trim or split into their own page. --
Pichu0102 (
talk)
15:54, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
Addendum: An example of some of the strange layout can be seen in that the example image is shown rather low on the page, rather than closer to the top. Unsure where to put it, but it definitely should be somewhere above Gameplay examples. -- Pichu0102 ( talk) 16:00, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
Hi, while looking at the page due to a friend commenting on it, I found the following passage intriguing:
In Japanese terminology, a distinction is often made between visual novels (abbreviated NVL, derived from visual NoVeL), which consist predominantly of narration and have very few interactive elements, and adventure games (abbreviated AVG, or ADV derived from ADVenture), a form of adventure game which may incorporate problem-solving and other types of gameplay. This distinction is normally lost outside Japan, where both NVLs and ADVs are commonly referred to as "visual novels" by international fans.
But there is no source given for this affirmation, and whatever information I found about NVL and ADV are closer the their descriptions on the vndb.org pages: ADV ( https://vndb.org/g32 ) and NVL ( https://vndb.org/g43 ), which says that they are about the style of text presentation, and has nothing to do with the presence of gameplay-related elements.
Could this section be sourced, removed or updated so that it won't possibly provide erroneous information? MamotromicO ( talk) 22:40, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
Are you sure the terms are used like that in Japan, and not just in the western fandom? 88.206.200.69 ( talk) 20:16, 29 January 2017 (UTC)
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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
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Isnt Doki Doki Literature Club! a best selling visual novel? Why does it not appear in the best selling tables of this article? If this article is limited to Japanese-created VNs, that should be made clear in article's title or first paragraph. 76.167.218.93 ( talk) 15:20, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
The two tables from the section "List of best-selling visual novels" are not correct, in my opinion it is missing Katawa Shoujo (even if I do not know where to find the number of downloads of the game), there is / some statistic(s) not updated (I checked only the Muv-Luv serie , the stat "Steam (PC) overseas - 5,256" is clearly not up to date.) and there is a mistake Steins; Gate is part of the serie Science; Adventure so we should count other games from the serie like Chaos; Head.
31NOVA (
talk)
18:05, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
Since the sales figures in the article are apt to date quickly, we should either make sure they are all from the same year or remove them. - Knowledgekid87 ( talk) 02:36, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
I see this:
'This distinction is normally lost outside Japan, as both visual novels and adventure games are commonly referred to as "visual novels" by international fans.'
Uhhh... what? Maybe someone needs to read this: /info/en/?search=Adventure_game
Outside of Japan, adventure game is the older term and encompasses multiple genres. If anything, VNs are more frequently classed as a subgenre of adventure games in the Anglosphere.
Godammit, Weebs! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 51.7.118.149 ( talk) 20:47, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
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a more proper organized and arranged list Prettycurefan75 ( talk) 21:23, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
we should add more popular visual novels like ones that everyone is familiar with in the list of best selling visual novel list in the series section besides danganronpa ace attorney steins gate higurashi/when they cry/when the cicadas cry and zero escape Prettycurefan75 ( talk) 02:37, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
Prettycurefan75 ( talk) 02:37, 6 June 2024 (UTC)
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To discuss the terminology of anime games, it is suggested you use Talk:List of video games based on anime or manga rather than one of the talk pages for its five subgenres. |
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Shibboleth, why did you redirect the page, despite the passionate comments by the previous anonymous contributor? Paranoid 10:41, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC)
Nice to see an "anime game" section article that was actually balanced, mostly accurate, and well written. I've made several changes to correct a few misconceptions that had crept in, particularly:
Haeleth 22:03, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
An acquaintance of mine who is knowledgable about the genre (Olf le Fol; you may know him) complained that this article is backwards; visual novels are a subset of adventure games, not the other way around. He also said that some game articles are tagged as VNs when the Japanese consider them AVGs ( Atlach=Nacha was implied, though I haven't played it, and Yami to Bōshi to Hon no Tabibito is probably one from my own observations.) If this is the case, can we remedy this without making the article terminally confusing for the English-speaking gamer? - Seventh Holy Scripture 17:33, 16 May 2006 (UTC)
Blade is a commercial product with no English games produced with it. Ren'py has had several games produced with it. Please stop spamming this page. Ashibaka tock 22:15, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
Sorry I readded improper link w/o checking the chat area first. I'm a wikipedia newbie.. Whisperstorm 09:21, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
This is a great article, well written and all. However it could probably benefit from a few good references at the bottom of the page.-- SidiLemine 11:16, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
While I recognise that free images are vastly preferable to copyrighted images, I don't think it's really reasonable to illustrate an article about a game genre with a fake "screenshot". Particularly not if the caption claims it's a real screenshot of a "typical" game, which the Wikipe-tan image definitely would not be. (For one thing, typical visual novels are not written in Romance languages... appropriate though it would be if they were!)
A better solution, if the Kanon image is felt to be undesirable, would be to use a screenshot of a free game, or otherwise to acquire permission to release a screenshot under a free license. There are plenty of authors, certainly of free games, who would probably be very happy to give permission to place a single screenshot in the public domain or under the GFDL. If time permits, I'll put some feelers out. — Haeleth Talk 17:58, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
I took the liberty of taking the Wikipe-tan image and an image of a classroom I found in the Wikimedia commons, plugging them into Ren'Py, and producing the image you see to the right. While it is in English, it does have the advantage that the drop-shadowing is similar to what you see in real games, rather then the odd blurring used in the current shot.
I think a screenshot from a real game would probably be the best thing, but hopefully this screenshot is better than an image made in photoshop. I can fairly easily change the text to whatever is wanted.
I'm not going to add this to the page without someone more wiki-competent approving. PyTom 21:30, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
It means "Mr. Smith". Ashi b aka tock 15:06, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
This is a pretty blatant self-reference. Surely someone can make one that at least doesn't explicitly reference Wikipedia, and preferably doesn't use Wikipe-tan (do we have any other freely licensed anime-style drawings?). -- SPUI ( T - C) 22:17, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
While it's true that free images are better than copyrighted ones on which we assert fair use, this image doesn't seem to fit very well. While all we're trying to get is the general idea of visual novels, this is just self-promotion (see WP:ASR). I think it would be best to at least simulate what a visual novel might say instead of the current caption, and we should still try to get a producer to release a screenshot under a free license, as that would be the best thing for sure. -- Rory096 03:54, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
I was asked on my talk page if I could change the text of the image. I don't mind doing that, but I would prefer not to be the one to decide. -- PyTom 04:07, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
It should actually be possible to find a decent freely-licensed screenshot; there are freely-licensed visual novels, though there quality is presumably usually low. I tried going with a comedy option ( MIT license) but couldn't find a good place to screencap; we should be able to find a somewhat better-quality free game. I'd assume that [1] ( Narcissu) does not allow for screenshots under a free license. -- SPUI ( T - C) 06:37, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
If we do use a modified version of the current image, I suggest the following:
By the way, the specific images used in the collage should be cited so as to satisfy the attribution requirement of the GFDL. -- SPUI ( T - C) 07:07, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
SPUI, the text doesn't have to be anything in particular. Just suggest some lorem ipsum stuff yourself if you don't like it. Ashi b aka tock 05:06, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
I'm trying to figure out if there's consensus here as to what the image should be changed to. I can make just about anything using Ren'Py, but I need to know what I should do. Is an image of Wikipe-tan okay, as it is on Moe anthropomorphism... or should I looks for a screenshot of an actual game? Or should I just be leaving well enough alone? PyTom 07:09, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
I took the liberty of updating the text under Wikipe-tan's pic to, "An image of a visual novel: Visual novels (this example featuring Wikipe-tan) are commonly characterized with dialog boxes and sprites determining the speaker..." Hope it's ok... Anon.
63.97.219.197
05:26, 3 October 2007 (UTC)
Can the first screenshot be anything other than a schoolgirl exposing her bare breasts? I'm surprised this has stayed up for as long as it has. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:58C:180:31C0:59C0:6C9:F958:90FC ( talk) 02:20, 25 December 2019 (UTC)
I've reverted User:SeizureDog's removal of the fan translation section, as I disagree with the reasoning that "Fan translations are technically copy-vios and Wikipedia cannot support them.". Some (most?) fan-translations of doujinshi are done with the consent of the copyright holder, so I don't think that's a problem. Even if it was, I don't think that a mention counts as support... Wikipedia has plenty of articles that mention things that are illegal (For example, Bong describes how to use the device in question), and I don't think that counts as support.
That being said, I think that this section could probably use some work. It might make sense to cover commercial translations as well as fan-translations, and maybe find some sources for it. Or something like that. PyTom 23:20, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
No, translation patches are actually copyright violations. The right to create derivative works (including translations) is covered in copyright. Translation patches are only legal if you don't share them, or if you create an entirely different story to fit in (and thus is not a derivative work of the original). It doesn't matter if the original version is free (unless you mean free use use), it still is covered by copyright. Now, companies may not mind that patches are being made, but like fan fiction, it's still technically copyright infringement. Legality aside, it's really not encyclopedic to talk about unofficial stuff like this. And I hardly see how "international visual novel fans rely mainly on fan translations" when only 2 games have been fully fan-patched when at least 50 have been officially brought over. Basically what this says to me is that 'international' fans are too cheap to buy official visual novels and mostly just pirate them. Which you have to admit, is mostly true anyways; I myself have done so a couple of times, but at least I plan to buy some of them eventually (right now I've got my eye on Kanon for Dreamcast). Of course, we don't get any of the actual popular series, but that still doesn't justify it. I'm not saying we really need to avoid mentioning that visual novels are sometimes fansubbed, but we do need to avoid giving details such as which have been; because then it starts reading like promotion for the translation groups.
Observe this potential slippery slope:
"Some games have unofficial translation patches made for them." (Informs the reader of the practice, but gives no help for obtaining them. This is what I'd be ok with.)
"Planetarian and Tsukihime have had unofficial translation patches made for them." (Implies "this is what you can steal, now go search for it". To me at least.)
"The group Anime Fanboys has created unofficial translation patches for Planetarian and Tsukihime.
Download them here." (Full blown promotion.)
On another point, there's really no need to mention dojinshi being translated; with the author's permission or otherwise. Dojinshi are almost by defination non-notable (unless, like Type-Moon, you just happen to get famous later). Anyways, I'm talking too much.-- SeizureDog 11:49, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
It sounds like the solution to this problem is that we can talk about fan translations, but to do so we should cite reliable external sources. This will take care of a lot of SeizureDog's concerns, but won't ban talking about fan translations. It might be wise to place one of those edit only messages in the section as an extra reminder for WP:SPAM, WP:V, etc. It is a magnet for crap, but fan translations are pretty significant to the topic. We just gotta get sources for that info. -- Ned Scott 21:04, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
A couple of issues remain. I'm not all that comfortable with the Ever17 citation. Moogy's link is to Hirameki's direct sales division, while some of their other titles were distributed via other channels. (I once saw Hourglass of Summer in a bookstore.) So I don't think this is properly cited. I'm also not sure if it makes sense to cite the best selling non-eroge, when eroge seem to sell more. Finally, I'm not sure if it's true that "all major visual novels are produced in Japan"... are there any major VNs that are produced in China or Korea? PyTom 20:39, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
The previous discussion was about 1 year old, so I figure I'd start a brand new section.
In Japan, Visual Novels (or just "Novels") is a distinct genre from the "Adventure Game" (abbreviated as either "ADV" or "AVG") genre. Their main difference is essentially the difference between a paper back novel and a "Choose Your Own Adventure" game book. For Visual Novels, there is no branch in the storyline, no real decisions to make, no multiple endings. For ADV, the story is actually interactive.
When do we follow what is common, and when do we accuse something of being a common misnomer?
To me, calling ADV games "Dating Sims" is as much a misnomer as calling them "Visual Novels". However, this article had a distinct treatment between their relationship. Where is the line? - Afker 10:06, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
Consider another analogy then: Hentai, a blatant English misappropriation of a Japanese term. Rather then restricting itself to the Japanese meaning, or redirecting to the more correct term Ecchi, the article describes the English usage with several explanatory notes on the true meaning of the word. It's quite similar to the situation we have here, in my opinion.
Anyway, to lay out my thoughts on the matter clearly:
In any case, I'll do some rearrangement of the page to make those notes more prominent; hopefully that will be to your satisfaction. - Seventh Holy Scripture 09:03, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
This article doesn't contain any info on the history of visual novels... When was the first one released? What was it like technically? Try to name a few important visual novels. Shinobu 03:27, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
Though this suggestion is not as fundamental as others here, I believe that a little better coverage of the importance of Phoenix Wright being a hit outside of Japan would enhance the article. I think it should have a small section describing how it is the first ADV game to be considered a true hit outside of fan cycles, and a "See Also:" link to the Ace Attorney wikipedia page. People reading this will become aware of Phoenix Wright being an ADV game and will see the potential the genre holds outside of eroge. Gaming otaku 21:31, 10 November 2007 (UTC)
( talk) 09:15, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
Phoenix Wright is listed under the Visual Novels section at DMOZ. Admittedly, I did this, but nobody has changed it. Shii (tock) 17:54, 22 January 2009 (UTC) I don't see a problem with listing Ace Attorney as a visual novel just because it has an above-average amount of screen animation. Plenty of games that are widely considered visual novels have a decent amount of screen animation, so I don't think that would disqualify a game. If anything, I'd worry more about the gameplay aspects of the series, but even there they seem to be dominated by the visual novel parts. — PyTom ( talk) 21:53, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
I've noticed that part of the article seems to derive verbatim from the Blade Visual Novel Engine webpage. Mizunori ( talk) 23:15, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
I deleted those because they were already linked in the template at the top. 68.148.164.166 ( talk) 08:05, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
Since Ryukishi07, the creator of Umineko no Naku Koro ni, appears to have officially endorsed [2] [3] the fan translation of his work done by Witch Hunt, would it now be acceptable to mention and link to it in the "Translations" section (as well as on the Umineko no Naku Koro ni page?) - Seventh Holy Scripture ( talk) 19:22, 7 January 2009 (UTC)
Are they still being ported to the Dreamcast, or is this statement just referring to the fact that they once were? If it is the latter, I think it should be revised to be more clear, as I was under the assumption that the Dreamcast was pretty much dead nowadays... 98.238.188.211 ( talk) 10:09, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
I'll buy Ace Attorney and Snatcher as similar enough to VNs to warrant mention, but unless the later entries in the series have changed greatly since the first DS game that I played, dialogue is hardly the focus of Trauma Center. If any game with some VN-style sequences counts as a visual novel, we might as well mention games like Ar tonelico too... or why not Puzzle Quest? It's got dialogue sequences like that too.
While the page Trauma Center (series) also claims the games are visual novels, the Japanese Wikipedia pages state they are action games and as far as I can tell do not mention visual novels anywhere. I say remove it, anyone else have an opinion? Any Japanese sources that bill the games as visual novels would be of interest as well. - Seventh Holy Scripture ( talk) 04:02, 6 June 2010 (UTC)
Because of the number of start/stub articles that fail and have no hope of ever passing the WP:GNG I've started up a list at User:Jinnai/VN. Right now I'm taking entries off vndb.org. This pertains only to Japanese VNs translated to English. If you want to help feel free to add entries. 陣 内 Jinnai 20:59, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
Look at this...
Sound Novels is a trademark of Chunsoft, which used the term for its novel games such as Portopia Renzoku Satsujin Jiken, Otogirisō, Kamaitachi no Yoru, Machi, 428: Fūsa Sareta Shibuya de (which received a perfect 40/40 score from Famitsu), and more recently 999: Nine Hours, Nine Persons, Nine Doors.
The Portopia Serial Murder Case was released roughly six years before Otogirisou, which is the one first labeled a Sound Novel. And there are some differences between Portopia and the Sound Novels of the future. Therefore, I suggest a change with that part, maybe remove Portopia entirely. That's all. 120.28.64.71 ( talk) 14:53, 3 August 2011 (UTC)
I'll remove 999 as well from the list, then. It's more of an Escape-the-room Visual Novel. 120.28.64.76 ( talk) 06:21, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
Me again. And here's what the Japanese Chunsoft article has to say...
サウンドノベルシリーズ
弟切草 かまいたちの夜 街 〜運命の交差点〜 かまいたちの夜2 監獄島のわらべ唄 かまいたちの夜×3 三日月島事件の真相 忌火起草 428 〜封鎖された渋谷で〜
No 999. Now, I removed both games. And I didn't notice the other mention of Portopia. Thought it was only mentioned in the sound novel list. 120.28.64.76 ( talk) 06:27, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
Can someone please explain to me how the typical visual novel is a "game"? Simply selecting a choice that affects the story is not gameplay. "Classification as by the Japanese" (though wouldn't they specifically classify these as "NVL" anyway?) or "marketing strategy" arguments are not going to help much here. A typical visual novel is little different from the Choose Your Own Adventure books, which are most certainly not games. The article even points out those visual novels which do not have choice at all... how are these games? Where is the gameplay? 174.111.81.238 ( talk) 12:14, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
The only difference between a VN and any other game is the ratio of interaction to cutscene. 111.69.195.193 ( talk) 12:01, 28 January 2012 (UTC)
Except there are many games with no cutscenes. Simply put, visual novels are interactive japanese comics, not video games. To call them games would be as silly as calling motion comics games. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
81.3.45.148 (
talk)
23:03, 4 February 2012 (UTC)
Acording to many sources, including wikipedia, a book is: a set of written, printed, illustrated, or blank sheets, made of ink, paper, parchment, or other materials, usually fastened together to hinge at one side. and a novel is a book of long narrative in literary prose. What I am trying to say is VN's aren't books because they aren't made of paper and they aren't electronic novels/books because you have to make choices in order to progress the story. 'Make your own adventure' books are considered games by alot of people but they are still considered books because you can get a paper version. You cannot have a paper version of a VN as many of them have animated sequences and the visuals in VN's are just as important as the prose. At best you have a argument for motion comics, but even then only maybe in my opinion. Also can whoever keeps editing this page and
Katawa Shoujo page please stop until this discusion is finnished?
DSQ (
talk)
13:35, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
Yes, these "sources" also will tell you there are things called e-books, a physical copy has nothing to do with being a book. Visual Novels are neither books nor games, however. Oh, and I'm not sure why someone would think ratings confirm they're games, but either way it doesn't matter since according to Wikipedia the ESRB, a rating company, is "for computer and video games as well as entertainment software", visual novels are just entertainment software. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.241.173.211 ( talk) 18:31, 5 February 2012 (UTC)
The data inside is all correct, Lost Odyssey and Sakura Wars are RPGs with VN-hybrid elements. However, they are not VNs, they simply have VN elements. Now, nothing in that section is inaccurate, but I'm just questioning the need for it to be in this article.
Note the last two edits. The unnamed editor mistakenly removed it because s/he though (as did I) that Sakura Wars should not be in there, but then I realized that the section only states it has VN-style elements. This means that the revert done right after is correct. I merely question the relevance of this entire section in the first place, as VNs are a very small part of their gameplay, thus making these sections possibly better suited within the History of Eastern role-playing video games article instead. Overmage ( talk) 07:04, 27 March 2012 (UTC)
"While the plots and storytelling of mainstream video games is often criticized, many fans of visual novels hold them up as exceptions and identify this as a strong point of the genre."
Can somebody explain this phrase to me? E.g., criticized for what? -- Beroal ( talk) 15:24, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
From this article in Vietnamese Wikipedia, there is a part that criticism for visual novel from Association of Universities and Colleges Vietnam. I think if possible, please translate it into article, to take a comprehensive look. I use Google translate for paragraph:
In Vietnam, in early September 2012, a series of articles on the website of the Association of Universities and Colleges of non-public has strongly criticized sex game and shared visual novel vie the internet in Vietnam [49]. The first articles of this series reflect only the negative consequences caused by the sex game, however the article then focuses on visual novel for that harm the visual novel is extremely large and the rating, "the vast majority" of these format is "sex game" with the contents of rape, abuse and incest; articles have even attack the player visual novel.[50][51] this has created a wave of strong opposition in the visual novel fans community in Vietnam through the forum and major website [52], and the event is ongoing.
Thanks you. -- 113.180.99.249 ( talk) 06:20, 12 September 2012 (UTC)
Can we find any RS that discusses this term? The closest thing I've found is this blog by a Mangagamer translator(almost NSFW). Majority of online uses (English and Japanese) are game reviews, forums, self-published blogs, etc. The term is mentioned on ja.wikipedia many times but their article on it was deleted as original research ( ja:Wikipedia:削除依頼/抜きゲー), with one editor commenting that sources were not found after 5 years. -- Atlantima ~✿~ ( talk) 14:01, 29 April 2013 (UTC)
Is this the new domain for the fan translation site? <Link removed as leads to spam domain> The current link is broken and even the domain doesn't seem to exist anymore (it redirects to some book on Project Gutenberg). 2604:6000:110C:E007:2189:2FE8:C50C:65F3 ( talk) 04:19, 29 January 2014 (UTC)
Incredibly long article, with lots of jargon tossed about that someone unfamiliar may not understand. In addition, the placement of certain elements, such as an example image, may need to be moved to make more sense. Also, because it needs to be repeated: Incredibly long article. Please find points to trim or split into their own page. --
Pichu0102 (
talk)
15:54, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
Addendum: An example of some of the strange layout can be seen in that the example image is shown rather low on the page, rather than closer to the top. Unsure where to put it, but it definitely should be somewhere above Gameplay examples. -- Pichu0102 ( talk) 16:00, 12 February 2014 (UTC)
Hi, while looking at the page due to a friend commenting on it, I found the following passage intriguing:
In Japanese terminology, a distinction is often made between visual novels (abbreviated NVL, derived from visual NoVeL), which consist predominantly of narration and have very few interactive elements, and adventure games (abbreviated AVG, or ADV derived from ADVenture), a form of adventure game which may incorporate problem-solving and other types of gameplay. This distinction is normally lost outside Japan, where both NVLs and ADVs are commonly referred to as "visual novels" by international fans.
But there is no source given for this affirmation, and whatever information I found about NVL and ADV are closer the their descriptions on the vndb.org pages: ADV ( https://vndb.org/g32 ) and NVL ( https://vndb.org/g43 ), which says that they are about the style of text presentation, and has nothing to do with the presence of gameplay-related elements.
Could this section be sourced, removed or updated so that it won't possibly provide erroneous information? MamotromicO ( talk) 22:40, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
Are you sure the terms are used like that in Japan, and not just in the western fandom? 88.206.200.69 ( talk) 20:16, 29 January 2017 (UTC)
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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
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Isnt Doki Doki Literature Club! a best selling visual novel? Why does it not appear in the best selling tables of this article? If this article is limited to Japanese-created VNs, that should be made clear in article's title or first paragraph. 76.167.218.93 ( talk) 15:20, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
The two tables from the section "List of best-selling visual novels" are not correct, in my opinion it is missing Katawa Shoujo (even if I do not know where to find the number of downloads of the game), there is / some statistic(s) not updated (I checked only the Muv-Luv serie , the stat "Steam (PC) overseas - 5,256" is clearly not up to date.) and there is a mistake Steins; Gate is part of the serie Science; Adventure so we should count other games from the serie like Chaos; Head.
31NOVA (
talk)
18:05, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
Since the sales figures in the article are apt to date quickly, we should either make sure they are all from the same year or remove them. - Knowledgekid87 ( talk) 02:36, 16 September 2020 (UTC)
I see this:
'This distinction is normally lost outside Japan, as both visual novels and adventure games are commonly referred to as "visual novels" by international fans.'
Uhhh... what? Maybe someone needs to read this: /info/en/?search=Adventure_game
Outside of Japan, adventure game is the older term and encompasses multiple genres. If anything, VNs are more frequently classed as a subgenre of adventure games in the Anglosphere.
Godammit, Weebs! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 51.7.118.149 ( talk) 20:47, 14 February 2022 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
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a more proper organized and arranged list Prettycurefan75 ( talk) 21:23, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
we should add more popular visual novels like ones that everyone is familiar with in the list of best selling visual novel list in the series section besides danganronpa ace attorney steins gate higurashi/when they cry/when the cicadas cry and zero escape Prettycurefan75 ( talk) 02:37, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
Prettycurefan75 ( talk) 02:37, 6 June 2024 (UTC)