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This invented name have no support in English sources at all [1] [2] [3]. While, Union of Vilnius has [4]. So I am asking is there any opposition to rename this article from invented name to established one? M.K. ( talk) 11:58, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
Union of Kraków and Vilna → Union of Vilnius (1499) — Current title is not present in English sources and reader could face difficulty searching and recognize it. New title used in English academic works, shorter and less confusing — M.K. ( talk) 11:24, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's naming conventions.If the argument is not clarified on what the best toponym to use for Vilna and Cracow on the project should be, this three-ringed circus is not going to stop with this debate. I suggest using Vilnius and Kraków as the simplest solution and compromise on the matter. This should be less confusing and contentious for all parties (and helpful to uninvolved readers). Links and re-directs can fine tune the matter when and if appropriate. One can not logically argue that "Vilna" is the earlier and proper historical toponym in English, and "Cracow" is not. Since both names have evolved into their present names on their respective articles in WP, they are the ones that should be used throughout the entire encyclopedia. Dr. Dan ( talk) 00:38, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
You are missing the point. Are you inclined to change any mention of Kraków prior to 1960, to the English toponyn "Cracow" on the English Wikipedia? Would you oppose or revert such moves? There are plenty of references for the historical usage of Cracow. As I stated above, both names have undergone a metamorphosis, and in the interest of less confusion and contention, those are the ones that should be used. Dr. Dan ( talk) 15:48, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
I agree with Piotrus that most of its inhabitants did not call Cracow, Cracovia in 1499. How they pronounced it exactly, is any ones guess. Certainly the Polish language has changed from medieval times, as English has from the time of Shakespeare (have watched a lot of Jerzy Hoffman films). I'm not sure where Piotrus gets his certainty of what most the inhabitants of Vilnius (in 1499) called the city. That's probably what he thinks, but really no one can say with certainty what term they used. But that's not the main issue. What the inhabitants of K and V called the city is neither here nor there. English usage and consistency on WP, remain the real issue. And this goes far beyond this article or this specific debate. Either we are going to use the current English versions of Vilnius and Kraków in the articles on Wikipedia, for less confusion, or in historical contexts, Vilna and Cracow. Kraków has no uniqueness that would make it an exception. As I have explained before, my personal belief is that using Krakow and Vilnius (with proper links, redirects, and other explanations) is the best solution. Less contentious and less confusing. And another way to make the "internet not suck". Dr. Dan ( talk) 18:45, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
This article is rated Stub-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||
|
This invented name have no support in English sources at all [1] [2] [3]. While, Union of Vilnius has [4]. So I am asking is there any opposition to rename this article from invented name to established one? M.K. ( talk) 11:58, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
Union of Kraków and Vilna → Union of Vilnius (1499) — Current title is not present in English sources and reader could face difficulty searching and recognize it. New title used in English academic works, shorter and less confusing — M.K. ( talk) 11:24, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's naming conventions.If the argument is not clarified on what the best toponym to use for Vilna and Cracow on the project should be, this three-ringed circus is not going to stop with this debate. I suggest using Vilnius and Kraków as the simplest solution and compromise on the matter. This should be less confusing and contentious for all parties (and helpful to uninvolved readers). Links and re-directs can fine tune the matter when and if appropriate. One can not logically argue that "Vilna" is the earlier and proper historical toponym in English, and "Cracow" is not. Since both names have evolved into their present names on their respective articles in WP, they are the ones that should be used throughout the entire encyclopedia. Dr. Dan ( talk) 00:38, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
You are missing the point. Are you inclined to change any mention of Kraków prior to 1960, to the English toponyn "Cracow" on the English Wikipedia? Would you oppose or revert such moves? There are plenty of references for the historical usage of Cracow. As I stated above, both names have undergone a metamorphosis, and in the interest of less confusion and contention, those are the ones that should be used. Dr. Dan ( talk) 15:48, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
I agree with Piotrus that most of its inhabitants did not call Cracow, Cracovia in 1499. How they pronounced it exactly, is any ones guess. Certainly the Polish language has changed from medieval times, as English has from the time of Shakespeare (have watched a lot of Jerzy Hoffman films). I'm not sure where Piotrus gets his certainty of what most the inhabitants of Vilnius (in 1499) called the city. That's probably what he thinks, but really no one can say with certainty what term they used. But that's not the main issue. What the inhabitants of K and V called the city is neither here nor there. English usage and consistency on WP, remain the real issue. And this goes far beyond this article or this specific debate. Either we are going to use the current English versions of Vilnius and Kraków in the articles on Wikipedia, for less confusion, or in historical contexts, Vilna and Cracow. Kraków has no uniqueness that would make it an exception. As I have explained before, my personal belief is that using Krakow and Vilnius (with proper links, redirects, and other explanations) is the best solution. Less contentious and less confusing. And another way to make the "internet not suck". Dr. Dan ( talk) 18:45, 23 December 2007 (UTC)