![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
2023 was certainly a challenging year for the severe weather project. From editing warring to Andrew5 attacks to the total debacle that happened in February, we have all been through a lot of hardships. However, this project is getting better and stronger with every passing day and with more editors than ever before, it has become clear that we will continue to improve the articles that are within the project. As I did last year, I will make a list of possible changes and improvements that have been, or I believe should be made. This list will not be like last year when I was not mature enough by Wikipedia rules and standards, so I'm very happy and pleased to present this list.
(1) By far the biggest change that will happen this year will be the new model used for the main tornado pages. Although it has not been totally decided upon what exactly it will truly look like, the main tornado article pages will be redone to be less U.S.-centric. Recommended by DJ Cane, this page will now be broken down by continent instead of month and subsection for countries will be made as needed. Once the new look is decided upon, we will, unfortunately, need to work to update all the previous years as well, which I will address in the second point. Maps for these other regions should also be considered. We will need to decide what to put into infobox (I'm still against a picture collage for the sake of avoiding edit wars), but we can figure that out another time.
(2) Lots of changes were made in the last few years, which include, but are not limited to:
(a) the new look main tornado article page
(b) the new model for tornado charts
(c) the establishment of the IF scale tornado count chart
(d) the tornado reports and tornadoes confirmed wording in the lead were changed
I will also add that many old tornado pages need updated NWS refs as well (there has been almost no effort to fix these it seems).
It goes without saying that this is difficult to manage and handle, but a more concerted effort needs to be made to update older pages, especially during slow times for tornadoes like we are in right now. We keep changing the tornado chart look without fixing the older models, which is creating more work for us. We as a project should really consider fixing these things, even if it's just changing one tornado chart, before we go and start working on a whole bunch of new things.
(3) A benchmark standard needs to be set for when tornadoes/tornado outbreaks need articles. Throughout the year, especially towards the end of the year, numerous disputes came up about whether certain tornadoes or needed articles or not. I saw no problem with the drafts being started just in case an article was needed, although this seemed to be more for the pride of starting the article than for actually being helpful, but I think a sharp line needs to be drawn at this point. I honestly hate to have to say this, but the criteria for tornado articles to be created needs to be clearly defined and any event that doesn't reach that criteria just doesn't get an article, regardless of what happened. Mind you that this policy will only apply to tornado outbreaks and individual tornadoes; storm complexes and winter storm articles are to be excluded as tornadoes added onto those articles is just for completeness' sake when it comes to impacts.
(4) There needs to be more non-tornadic impacts (i.e. wind and hail damage) and impacts (i.e. school and road closures and transportation delays) added to ALL of the articles in the severe weather project. This was something I addressed last year, but, unfortunately, it doesn't seem to have "stuck" yet. The tornadoes (as bad as they are) are rarely the only things that happen during severe weather events and this needs to be addressed in every article. Some articles (i.e. February 2023 North American storm complex, Tornado outbreak sequence of June 14–19, 2023, and Tornado outbreak sequence of June 20–26, 2023) did a good job with this, but others (i.e. Early-March 2023 North American storm complex, Tornado outbreak of March 24–27, 2023, and Tornado outbreak of December 9–10, 2023 {the most recent tornado outbreak to be get an article}) were mediocre at best. This needs to be addressed as this, in my opinion, has been forgotten in this project. Mind you that we are supposed to cover all severe weather, not just tornadoes so we really need to start working towards getting that done as well.
That's all for now. If I need to, I'll add more to this list later. Cheers! — preceding message by ChessEric ( talk · contribs) at 18:41 UTC 4 January 2024 diff, originally hidden due to malformed comment TheAustinMan( Talk ⬩ Edits) 01:31, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
The first paragrah of the article (like all other Tornadoes of [year] articles, so asking this specifically in the 2024 Discuss section might be the wrong place but i don't know where else) mentions two "categories" where Tornadoes happen. 1. Where strong and destructive Tornadoes happen most frequently 2. Occasionally and somewhat regularely
I noticed that Argentina is mentioned in both.
In general i think its very difficult to answer how common tornadoes are in [country] because of a lack of research in most places. So any kind of categorization might be misleading.
On the other side we still can say tornado activity in a country like New Zealand is on a different Level than in countries mentioned in the first category.
Personally i would have said china is also a country where strong Tornadoes are rather common. As well as Europe (30 strong ones in 2022, summary for 2023 not published yet).
Maybe there is a Way to still categorize Areas. So far it seems to be rather empirical than based on an actual number/density/rate... which might be a better way and not affected by general misconceptions many people have on tornadoes outside of North America. Though there is again the ptoblem with the lack of tornado research in most places. 185.35.110.99 ( talk) 06:50, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
Alright folks, I know it’s still early but what are your thoughts? At least two fatalities and the Panama City Beach tornado might have been a high-end EF2 or an EF3. Lots of other tornadoes, some strong, will likely be confirmed as surveys continue. However, in terms of notability for an article, I’m on the fence. Could go either way depending on how the surveys turn out. TornadoInformation12 ( talk) 06:12, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
TornadoInformation12 ( talk) 17:24, 11 January 2024 (UTC)TornadoInformation12
TornadoInformation12 ( talk) 02:18, 12 January 2024 (UTC)TornadoInformation12
There's a potential issue with the format, strictly related to the Europe section and the countries being listed in the parentheses. So the most recent event impacted Turkey and Greece, and that's what's in the parentheses. The problem is, as Europe gets more active later in the year, it's not going to be that simple. It isn't uncommon for European tornado outbreaks involve 5 or more countries, and I feel like there will be certain events in which we can't list them all in a set of parenthesis. It just wouldn't look aesthetically pleasing at all. A hypothetical example:
July 7-9 (France, Germany, Belgium, Ukraine, Poland, and Italy)
I just think it's gonna look clunky and just kinda "off". So the way I see it we have three options:
1.) Ignore the aesthetic issues and just list all impacted countries anyway.
2.) Above a certain level of countries impacted (say, four or more), just have the parenthesis say (Multiple Countries) instead.
3.) Don't have parenthesis at all, and have information on the countries impacted in the actual section.
What do you all think? I'm open to whatever idea seems the most popular. At the end of the day, it isn't a huge deal, and if we have to list all countries, then so be it. I just worry about how it will look if there's an unusually prolific outbreak in Europe.
Also one more thing, why are we including waterspouts in the yearly total for Europe? A waterspout is technically a separate phenomenon, and for US events, we only list them if they're mesocyclonic or hit land. I worry that the total is going to wind up including every little fair-weather waterspout off the coast of Italy and Greece, which will falsely inflate the yearly total. TornadoInformation12 ( talk) 15:24, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
( talk) 13:48, 11 January 2024 (UTC)TornadoInformation12
TornadoInformation12 ( talk) 02:11, 12 January 2024 (UTC)TornadoInformation12
Ok so I know I'm flooding the talking section with questions about the new format, but I want to get everything figured out before things get more active. So with the US, we only make sections and articles for strong or otherwise notable tornadoes. Is that going to be the case with other countries too? The reason I ask is Africa and the Oceana region can go entire years without any strong or notable tornadoes. If we only include significant tornadoes, we may sometimes end the year with nothing under the Africa or Oceana heading besides "No significant tornadoes were confirmed in Africa in 2024", for example. So should we "lower the bar" so to speak for less tornado-prone continents so they don't end up blank? Won't be an issue with Asia, South America, and Europe though, as they get yearly strong tornadoes. Also, how are we going to source photos for events in other countries? Obviously in the US we have the DAT and the NWS, but that isn't an option in other countries. So to avoid having drab, text-only sections on other continents that are devoid of pictures, how are we going to source them? TornadoInformation12 ( talk) 02:39, 12 January 2024 (UTC)TornadoInformation12
Two things:
1.)So I felt it was necessary to move "Southeast Asia" to just "Asia", because we need to account for other tornado prone regions of Asia such as Bangladesh, India, and the Arabian Peninsula. In addition, places like Myanmar, Nepal, and Pakistan have also been hit by the isolated strong/deadly tornadoes in recent years, although they aren't as common there. Also, the Europe section isn't limited to a specific region of the continent, nor is the North America section, so why should Asia be any different, especially when strong tornadoes can happen across the whole continent?
2.)Now this next bit is really important and will come up regardless later this year. In the Europe section, the format is "Date Of Event - (Country)", so let's please just stick with that for everything else. For some reason Indonesia already had its own sub-section, rather than using the same format. But the main concern is that we are going to run into problems with the current format for North America by summer, and that's because of international tornado outbreaks! How did nobody foresee this potential issue?? What happens when a tornado outbreak affects BOTH the US and Canada? It happens every year, and we can't just put them in both sections. Sometimes it's just a few weak tornadoes in Canada, like this one last year:
/info/en/?search=Tornado_outbreak_sequence_of_June_20%E2%80%9326,_2023
Other times, we have major tornado activity on both sides of the border: /info/en/?search=1985_United_States%E2%80%93Canada_tornado_outbreak /info/en/?search=2018_United_States%E2%80%93Canada_tornado_outbreak
It's more rare, but sometimes we even have outbreaks that produce significant tornadoes in the US and Mexico: /info/en/?search=2015_Texas%E2%80%93Oklahoma_flood_and_tornado_outbreak /info/en/?search=Tornado_outbreak_sequence_of_April_20%E2%80%9327,_2007
The only viable solution?? The parentheses method used for the Europe and Asia sections. When we have an international tornado outbreak, we will have to say (United States and Canada) and so on. We cannot cleanly divide it into sub-sections of "United States" "Canada" and "Mexico/Caribbean" as convenient and straightforward as that may initially seem, because it simply won't work due to the aforementioned issue. It may seem redundant, but everything else will now have to be in paratheses as well. It might not be popular, but until somebody has a better idea, this is our only option. Again, this is an issue created by the new format. This was a non-issue last year, so if this is what we want, then this is what we will have to do. So with that said, I have to now go change the format for North America to the parentheses format. Monthly US tornado tables will also now be clustered at the top of the North America section. TornadoInformation12 ( talk) 16:49, 5 February 2024 (UTC)TornadoInformation12
Hey TornadoInformation12! I love the changes you made, but I had a question regarding this edit to the February 4 Indonesia tornado. You said we cannot say it was strong due to not being rated. However, the news article said the tornado had "strong wind" (when translated to English). Indonesia does not officially rate tornadoes on any scale. So, should we still say "strong" tornado, since the media does? The Weather Event Writer ( Talk Page) 21:06, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
TornadoInformation12 ( talk) 14:52, 6 February 2024 (UTC)TornadoInformation12
We recently had a new entry for a tornado that occurred in Northern Brazil. I removed it under the assumption that all of Brazil is prone to tornadoes, but I was reverted because that it is apparently not the case. It now dawns on me that we have not only not specified which exact regions of countries/continents typically experience tornadoes, but we also have no source for it. We need more sources in the lead to verify the claim we are making about where tornadoes form as well as clarification on exact regions. We've been copying and pasting the lead for so long that I feel like we've forgotten that certain facts need to be sourced. Can anyone find sources for the lead? Such additions would be greatly appreciated. Chess Eric 20:04, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
I like the new format by separating events into different regions, I just have one suggestion:
So the current format has a sub-heading 1 for tornadoes by month, and then a sub-heading 1 for each event. I think the monthly tornado count is still useful for comparing between years and for the record, so what if we had a sub-heading 1 for the month that had the link to the monthly tornado list as well as the count for the month and then have significant events having a sub-heading 2 under that. I think this will also make navigating easier by breaking up the North America section more as by the end of the year we'll probably have around 30 sub-heading 1's.
Thoughts? Jamisonsupame ( talk) 22:41, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
There have been many better photos of damage and tornadoes themselves going around my city (CBUS strong), which have a higher resolution or just overall represent the true scale of the situation better. Just look up "Wright-Pat AFB tornado" and there are like 70 photos which show the extensive damage. There's also a higher-quality photo of the West Jefferson-Licking tornado that touched down near me. The event mainly was centered around Central and West Ohio, and taking a photo from a completely different state just sits weird with me. It's not a bad photo though, I'll give it that. Also there's an absolutely wild photo of the entire side of a house that was blown out near Hilliard, Ohio that shows how weird the storm system itself was. (To clarify, the Wednesday outbreak was the most severe and mainly hit Ohio, I'm not undermining all of the other tornadoes that happened within those two days) Would a photo like this be better?
𝔐𝔢𝔪𝔢𝔊𝔬𝔡27 ( talk) 13:49, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
I think we maybe shohld make an article for the event. It occured very far north for the time of year, had 24 tornadoes, an had 4 significant tornadoes which were all outsider 10% significant tornado risk area. 2600:1014:B1A4:F0DB:0:1A:E6FF:4E01 ( talk) 22:09, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
The sagerton tornado was rated EF2. Typically, EF2 or higher tornadoes have sections added on this page. This applies even of only 1 tornado occurs, as seen in 2023 on February 21. 2600:1014:B1A4:F0DB:0:1A:E6FF:4E01 ( talk) 00:14, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
OK let me preface by asking this. If there were four different tornadoes in say...Florida, over the course of two months from completely separate storm systems, would you combine them all into one section? No, You wouldn't, so why would you think it's a good idea to do it for Indonesia, just because there were four in a row?? A single section is for a single event, or outbreak, or outbreak sequence, period. Those were four separate tornadoes, from four separate weather events. The only thing they had in common is where they occurred. There is ZERO basis for making them into one section. Even if it looks "funny" to have (Indonesia) for times in a row, it doesn't matter. We've figured out a format, and we stick with the guidelines we've established.
My other question is this. Why is it when I step away for a bit when my life gets busy, I always come back to an incorrectly formatted mess in at least one part of this page? Especially after I made a detailed talk page post about how to format tornado sections with the new layout, and how they are the same simple format for every region? It isn't rocket science, but if I have to keep cleaning up bad formatting every so often, then so be it. I just wish new editors would PLEASE read my above talk section, so I could at least rely on you guys to format the sections correctly when I'm too busy. That is all I ask. TornadoInformation12 ( talk) 10:00, 10 March 2024 (UTC)TornadoInformation12
I'm noticing we are creating sections for European tornado events with max intensity of IF1. Why? Those are weak tornadoes, and we typically don't make sections for US events that only produce weak tornadoes. I personally want sections only for IF2 or stronger European tornadoes. I guess I can make exceptions for IF1.5 events, but I do have concerns about the spring and summer months. We are not in peak European tornado season yet, and once we are, IF1 and IF1.5 tornadoes will be happening multiple times per week, and the list is going to get really long, really fast if we aren't a little more selective about what we include. What do you guys think? TornadoInformation12 ( talk) 11:16, 10 March 2024 (UTC)TornadoInformation12
Can we stop overbloating them? 96.250.92.78 ( talk) 21:15, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
We should include all events with at leas 1 significant tornado. I added headings for 1 events in the United States that were not included. 2600:1014:B136:82AF:0:2C:6FD7:D01 ( talk) 12:25, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
The new format (North America, Europe, Asia, Elsewhere) has been used on this page and Tornadoes of 2023. Should we convert every Tornadoes of xxxx page to this format? 2600:1014:B136:82AF:0:2C:6FD7:D01 ( talk) 12:41, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
I know i already posted on Tornades of 2023 (I forgot to login), but i found a reliable source saying it was an EF4. Here is the link: [1] https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/access/monitoring/monthly-report/tornadoes/202313 2600:1014:B134:9495:0:28:8ECF:8401 ( talk) 12:23, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
A definetely serious and widespread tornado outbreak seems to be underway. A draft has been created to begin. You may go to: Draft:Tornado outbreak of March 14, 2024 to help.
TornadoInformation12 ( talk) 13:20, 15 March 2024 (UTC)TornadoInformation12
There is an ongoing RfC to set the criteria for inclusion on Wikipedia's Tornadoes of XXXX (ex. Tornadoes of 2024) articles. If you wish to participate in the Request for Comment discussion, you can do so here! The Weather Event Writer ( Talk Page) 02:44, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
So, perhaps for the Asia section could we put a map of Chinese tornadoes, similar to the US map? Eric Wang has reported numerous tornadoes in China, some of them with significant (EF2+) intensity. MrTwister08 ( talk) 22:30, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
TornadoInformation12 ( talk) 05:12, 16 March 2024 (UTC)TornadoInformation12
Hey everyone. Recently, I have found this weather page to be difficult to scroll to different sections and overly lengthy compared to even the articles on the 2011-2022 tornado pages. It appears the January major format changes aren’t working well with minimal maintenance or expansion from writers. It would make sense to delete certain subsections here of non-noteworthiness, e.g. March 9th event. In that case, three tornados causing little damage and no casualties is not worth mentioning on this site. I believe that events with more than 6 tornadoes AND at least one significant tornado should be the passing criteria for noting here.
Also, to those who keep adding lengthy details to several recent events, please do not add any more than necessary for encyclopedic purposes (e.g. February 8th event). If all information can be expressed in fewer sentences as well, that would also improve the readability of this page. Thank you! HamiltonthesixXmusic ( talk) 04:24, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
Title says it all. We’re not even into the main part of European tornado season and we’re already completely behind. I already raised concerns that with us barely able to keep up with the US tables, tackling Europe simultaneously would be too much to handle, and now here we are. If we can’t maintain it, let’s get rid of it. TornadoInformation12 ( talk) 06:13, 3 April 2024 (UTC)TornadoInformation12
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
2023 was certainly a challenging year for the severe weather project. From editing warring to Andrew5 attacks to the total debacle that happened in February, we have all been through a lot of hardships. However, this project is getting better and stronger with every passing day and with more editors than ever before, it has become clear that we will continue to improve the articles that are within the project. As I did last year, I will make a list of possible changes and improvements that have been, or I believe should be made. This list will not be like last year when I was not mature enough by Wikipedia rules and standards, so I'm very happy and pleased to present this list.
(1) By far the biggest change that will happen this year will be the new model used for the main tornado pages. Although it has not been totally decided upon what exactly it will truly look like, the main tornado article pages will be redone to be less U.S.-centric. Recommended by DJ Cane, this page will now be broken down by continent instead of month and subsection for countries will be made as needed. Once the new look is decided upon, we will, unfortunately, need to work to update all the previous years as well, which I will address in the second point. Maps for these other regions should also be considered. We will need to decide what to put into infobox (I'm still against a picture collage for the sake of avoiding edit wars), but we can figure that out another time.
(2) Lots of changes were made in the last few years, which include, but are not limited to:
(a) the new look main tornado article page
(b) the new model for tornado charts
(c) the establishment of the IF scale tornado count chart
(d) the tornado reports and tornadoes confirmed wording in the lead were changed
I will also add that many old tornado pages need updated NWS refs as well (there has been almost no effort to fix these it seems).
It goes without saying that this is difficult to manage and handle, but a more concerted effort needs to be made to update older pages, especially during slow times for tornadoes like we are in right now. We keep changing the tornado chart look without fixing the older models, which is creating more work for us. We as a project should really consider fixing these things, even if it's just changing one tornado chart, before we go and start working on a whole bunch of new things.
(3) A benchmark standard needs to be set for when tornadoes/tornado outbreaks need articles. Throughout the year, especially towards the end of the year, numerous disputes came up about whether certain tornadoes or needed articles or not. I saw no problem with the drafts being started just in case an article was needed, although this seemed to be more for the pride of starting the article than for actually being helpful, but I think a sharp line needs to be drawn at this point. I honestly hate to have to say this, but the criteria for tornado articles to be created needs to be clearly defined and any event that doesn't reach that criteria just doesn't get an article, regardless of what happened. Mind you that this policy will only apply to tornado outbreaks and individual tornadoes; storm complexes and winter storm articles are to be excluded as tornadoes added onto those articles is just for completeness' sake when it comes to impacts.
(4) There needs to be more non-tornadic impacts (i.e. wind and hail damage) and impacts (i.e. school and road closures and transportation delays) added to ALL of the articles in the severe weather project. This was something I addressed last year, but, unfortunately, it doesn't seem to have "stuck" yet. The tornadoes (as bad as they are) are rarely the only things that happen during severe weather events and this needs to be addressed in every article. Some articles (i.e. February 2023 North American storm complex, Tornado outbreak sequence of June 14–19, 2023, and Tornado outbreak sequence of June 20–26, 2023) did a good job with this, but others (i.e. Early-March 2023 North American storm complex, Tornado outbreak of March 24–27, 2023, and Tornado outbreak of December 9–10, 2023 {the most recent tornado outbreak to be get an article}) were mediocre at best. This needs to be addressed as this, in my opinion, has been forgotten in this project. Mind you that we are supposed to cover all severe weather, not just tornadoes so we really need to start working towards getting that done as well.
That's all for now. If I need to, I'll add more to this list later. Cheers! — preceding message by ChessEric ( talk · contribs) at 18:41 UTC 4 January 2024 diff, originally hidden due to malformed comment TheAustinMan( Talk ⬩ Edits) 01:31, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
The first paragrah of the article (like all other Tornadoes of [year] articles, so asking this specifically in the 2024 Discuss section might be the wrong place but i don't know where else) mentions two "categories" where Tornadoes happen. 1. Where strong and destructive Tornadoes happen most frequently 2. Occasionally and somewhat regularely
I noticed that Argentina is mentioned in both.
In general i think its very difficult to answer how common tornadoes are in [country] because of a lack of research in most places. So any kind of categorization might be misleading.
On the other side we still can say tornado activity in a country like New Zealand is on a different Level than in countries mentioned in the first category.
Personally i would have said china is also a country where strong Tornadoes are rather common. As well as Europe (30 strong ones in 2022, summary for 2023 not published yet).
Maybe there is a Way to still categorize Areas. So far it seems to be rather empirical than based on an actual number/density/rate... which might be a better way and not affected by general misconceptions many people have on tornadoes outside of North America. Though there is again the ptoblem with the lack of tornado research in most places. 185.35.110.99 ( talk) 06:50, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
Alright folks, I know it’s still early but what are your thoughts? At least two fatalities and the Panama City Beach tornado might have been a high-end EF2 or an EF3. Lots of other tornadoes, some strong, will likely be confirmed as surveys continue. However, in terms of notability for an article, I’m on the fence. Could go either way depending on how the surveys turn out. TornadoInformation12 ( talk) 06:12, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
TornadoInformation12 ( talk) 17:24, 11 January 2024 (UTC)TornadoInformation12
TornadoInformation12 ( talk) 02:18, 12 January 2024 (UTC)TornadoInformation12
There's a potential issue with the format, strictly related to the Europe section and the countries being listed in the parentheses. So the most recent event impacted Turkey and Greece, and that's what's in the parentheses. The problem is, as Europe gets more active later in the year, it's not going to be that simple. It isn't uncommon for European tornado outbreaks involve 5 or more countries, and I feel like there will be certain events in which we can't list them all in a set of parenthesis. It just wouldn't look aesthetically pleasing at all. A hypothetical example:
July 7-9 (France, Germany, Belgium, Ukraine, Poland, and Italy)
I just think it's gonna look clunky and just kinda "off". So the way I see it we have three options:
1.) Ignore the aesthetic issues and just list all impacted countries anyway.
2.) Above a certain level of countries impacted (say, four or more), just have the parenthesis say (Multiple Countries) instead.
3.) Don't have parenthesis at all, and have information on the countries impacted in the actual section.
What do you all think? I'm open to whatever idea seems the most popular. At the end of the day, it isn't a huge deal, and if we have to list all countries, then so be it. I just worry about how it will look if there's an unusually prolific outbreak in Europe.
Also one more thing, why are we including waterspouts in the yearly total for Europe? A waterspout is technically a separate phenomenon, and for US events, we only list them if they're mesocyclonic or hit land. I worry that the total is going to wind up including every little fair-weather waterspout off the coast of Italy and Greece, which will falsely inflate the yearly total. TornadoInformation12 ( talk) 15:24, 10 January 2024 (UTC)
( talk) 13:48, 11 January 2024 (UTC)TornadoInformation12
TornadoInformation12 ( talk) 02:11, 12 January 2024 (UTC)TornadoInformation12
Ok so I know I'm flooding the talking section with questions about the new format, but I want to get everything figured out before things get more active. So with the US, we only make sections and articles for strong or otherwise notable tornadoes. Is that going to be the case with other countries too? The reason I ask is Africa and the Oceana region can go entire years without any strong or notable tornadoes. If we only include significant tornadoes, we may sometimes end the year with nothing under the Africa or Oceana heading besides "No significant tornadoes were confirmed in Africa in 2024", for example. So should we "lower the bar" so to speak for less tornado-prone continents so they don't end up blank? Won't be an issue with Asia, South America, and Europe though, as they get yearly strong tornadoes. Also, how are we going to source photos for events in other countries? Obviously in the US we have the DAT and the NWS, but that isn't an option in other countries. So to avoid having drab, text-only sections on other continents that are devoid of pictures, how are we going to source them? TornadoInformation12 ( talk) 02:39, 12 January 2024 (UTC)TornadoInformation12
Two things:
1.)So I felt it was necessary to move "Southeast Asia" to just "Asia", because we need to account for other tornado prone regions of Asia such as Bangladesh, India, and the Arabian Peninsula. In addition, places like Myanmar, Nepal, and Pakistan have also been hit by the isolated strong/deadly tornadoes in recent years, although they aren't as common there. Also, the Europe section isn't limited to a specific region of the continent, nor is the North America section, so why should Asia be any different, especially when strong tornadoes can happen across the whole continent?
2.)Now this next bit is really important and will come up regardless later this year. In the Europe section, the format is "Date Of Event - (Country)", so let's please just stick with that for everything else. For some reason Indonesia already had its own sub-section, rather than using the same format. But the main concern is that we are going to run into problems with the current format for North America by summer, and that's because of international tornado outbreaks! How did nobody foresee this potential issue?? What happens when a tornado outbreak affects BOTH the US and Canada? It happens every year, and we can't just put them in both sections. Sometimes it's just a few weak tornadoes in Canada, like this one last year:
/info/en/?search=Tornado_outbreak_sequence_of_June_20%E2%80%9326,_2023
Other times, we have major tornado activity on both sides of the border: /info/en/?search=1985_United_States%E2%80%93Canada_tornado_outbreak /info/en/?search=2018_United_States%E2%80%93Canada_tornado_outbreak
It's more rare, but sometimes we even have outbreaks that produce significant tornadoes in the US and Mexico: /info/en/?search=2015_Texas%E2%80%93Oklahoma_flood_and_tornado_outbreak /info/en/?search=Tornado_outbreak_sequence_of_April_20%E2%80%9327,_2007
The only viable solution?? The parentheses method used for the Europe and Asia sections. When we have an international tornado outbreak, we will have to say (United States and Canada) and so on. We cannot cleanly divide it into sub-sections of "United States" "Canada" and "Mexico/Caribbean" as convenient and straightforward as that may initially seem, because it simply won't work due to the aforementioned issue. It may seem redundant, but everything else will now have to be in paratheses as well. It might not be popular, but until somebody has a better idea, this is our only option. Again, this is an issue created by the new format. This was a non-issue last year, so if this is what we want, then this is what we will have to do. So with that said, I have to now go change the format for North America to the parentheses format. Monthly US tornado tables will also now be clustered at the top of the North America section. TornadoInformation12 ( talk) 16:49, 5 February 2024 (UTC)TornadoInformation12
Hey TornadoInformation12! I love the changes you made, but I had a question regarding this edit to the February 4 Indonesia tornado. You said we cannot say it was strong due to not being rated. However, the news article said the tornado had "strong wind" (when translated to English). Indonesia does not officially rate tornadoes on any scale. So, should we still say "strong" tornado, since the media does? The Weather Event Writer ( Talk Page) 21:06, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
TornadoInformation12 ( talk) 14:52, 6 February 2024 (UTC)TornadoInformation12
We recently had a new entry for a tornado that occurred in Northern Brazil. I removed it under the assumption that all of Brazil is prone to tornadoes, but I was reverted because that it is apparently not the case. It now dawns on me that we have not only not specified which exact regions of countries/continents typically experience tornadoes, but we also have no source for it. We need more sources in the lead to verify the claim we are making about where tornadoes form as well as clarification on exact regions. We've been copying and pasting the lead for so long that I feel like we've forgotten that certain facts need to be sourced. Can anyone find sources for the lead? Such additions would be greatly appreciated. Chess Eric 20:04, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
I like the new format by separating events into different regions, I just have one suggestion:
So the current format has a sub-heading 1 for tornadoes by month, and then a sub-heading 1 for each event. I think the monthly tornado count is still useful for comparing between years and for the record, so what if we had a sub-heading 1 for the month that had the link to the monthly tornado list as well as the count for the month and then have significant events having a sub-heading 2 under that. I think this will also make navigating easier by breaking up the North America section more as by the end of the year we'll probably have around 30 sub-heading 1's.
Thoughts? Jamisonsupame ( talk) 22:41, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
There have been many better photos of damage and tornadoes themselves going around my city (CBUS strong), which have a higher resolution or just overall represent the true scale of the situation better. Just look up "Wright-Pat AFB tornado" and there are like 70 photos which show the extensive damage. There's also a higher-quality photo of the West Jefferson-Licking tornado that touched down near me. The event mainly was centered around Central and West Ohio, and taking a photo from a completely different state just sits weird with me. It's not a bad photo though, I'll give it that. Also there's an absolutely wild photo of the entire side of a house that was blown out near Hilliard, Ohio that shows how weird the storm system itself was. (To clarify, the Wednesday outbreak was the most severe and mainly hit Ohio, I'm not undermining all of the other tornadoes that happened within those two days) Would a photo like this be better?
𝔐𝔢𝔪𝔢𝔊𝔬𝔡27 ( talk) 13:49, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
I think we maybe shohld make an article for the event. It occured very far north for the time of year, had 24 tornadoes, an had 4 significant tornadoes which were all outsider 10% significant tornado risk area. 2600:1014:B1A4:F0DB:0:1A:E6FF:4E01 ( talk) 22:09, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
The sagerton tornado was rated EF2. Typically, EF2 or higher tornadoes have sections added on this page. This applies even of only 1 tornado occurs, as seen in 2023 on February 21. 2600:1014:B1A4:F0DB:0:1A:E6FF:4E01 ( talk) 00:14, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
OK let me preface by asking this. If there were four different tornadoes in say...Florida, over the course of two months from completely separate storm systems, would you combine them all into one section? No, You wouldn't, so why would you think it's a good idea to do it for Indonesia, just because there were four in a row?? A single section is for a single event, or outbreak, or outbreak sequence, period. Those were four separate tornadoes, from four separate weather events. The only thing they had in common is where they occurred. There is ZERO basis for making them into one section. Even if it looks "funny" to have (Indonesia) for times in a row, it doesn't matter. We've figured out a format, and we stick with the guidelines we've established.
My other question is this. Why is it when I step away for a bit when my life gets busy, I always come back to an incorrectly formatted mess in at least one part of this page? Especially after I made a detailed talk page post about how to format tornado sections with the new layout, and how they are the same simple format for every region? It isn't rocket science, but if I have to keep cleaning up bad formatting every so often, then so be it. I just wish new editors would PLEASE read my above talk section, so I could at least rely on you guys to format the sections correctly when I'm too busy. That is all I ask. TornadoInformation12 ( talk) 10:00, 10 March 2024 (UTC)TornadoInformation12
I'm noticing we are creating sections for European tornado events with max intensity of IF1. Why? Those are weak tornadoes, and we typically don't make sections for US events that only produce weak tornadoes. I personally want sections only for IF2 or stronger European tornadoes. I guess I can make exceptions for IF1.5 events, but I do have concerns about the spring and summer months. We are not in peak European tornado season yet, and once we are, IF1 and IF1.5 tornadoes will be happening multiple times per week, and the list is going to get really long, really fast if we aren't a little more selective about what we include. What do you guys think? TornadoInformation12 ( talk) 11:16, 10 March 2024 (UTC)TornadoInformation12
Can we stop overbloating them? 96.250.92.78 ( talk) 21:15, 10 March 2024 (UTC)
We should include all events with at leas 1 significant tornado. I added headings for 1 events in the United States that were not included. 2600:1014:B136:82AF:0:2C:6FD7:D01 ( talk) 12:25, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
The new format (North America, Europe, Asia, Elsewhere) has been used on this page and Tornadoes of 2023. Should we convert every Tornadoes of xxxx page to this format? 2600:1014:B136:82AF:0:2C:6FD7:D01 ( talk) 12:41, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
I know i already posted on Tornades of 2023 (I forgot to login), but i found a reliable source saying it was an EF4. Here is the link: [1] https://www.ncei.noaa.gov/access/monitoring/monthly-report/tornadoes/202313 2600:1014:B134:9495:0:28:8ECF:8401 ( talk) 12:23, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
A definetely serious and widespread tornado outbreak seems to be underway. A draft has been created to begin. You may go to: Draft:Tornado outbreak of March 14, 2024 to help.
TornadoInformation12 ( talk) 13:20, 15 March 2024 (UTC)TornadoInformation12
There is an ongoing RfC to set the criteria for inclusion on Wikipedia's Tornadoes of XXXX (ex. Tornadoes of 2024) articles. If you wish to participate in the Request for Comment discussion, you can do so here! The Weather Event Writer ( Talk Page) 02:44, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
So, perhaps for the Asia section could we put a map of Chinese tornadoes, similar to the US map? Eric Wang has reported numerous tornadoes in China, some of them with significant (EF2+) intensity. MrTwister08 ( talk) 22:30, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
TornadoInformation12 ( talk) 05:12, 16 March 2024 (UTC)TornadoInformation12
Hey everyone. Recently, I have found this weather page to be difficult to scroll to different sections and overly lengthy compared to even the articles on the 2011-2022 tornado pages. It appears the January major format changes aren’t working well with minimal maintenance or expansion from writers. It would make sense to delete certain subsections here of non-noteworthiness, e.g. March 9th event. In that case, three tornados causing little damage and no casualties is not worth mentioning on this site. I believe that events with more than 6 tornadoes AND at least one significant tornado should be the passing criteria for noting here.
Also, to those who keep adding lengthy details to several recent events, please do not add any more than necessary for encyclopedic purposes (e.g. February 8th event). If all information can be expressed in fewer sentences as well, that would also improve the readability of this page. Thank you! HamiltonthesixXmusic ( talk) 04:24, 17 March 2024 (UTC)
Title says it all. We’re not even into the main part of European tornado season and we’re already completely behind. I already raised concerns that with us barely able to keep up with the US tables, tackling Europe simultaneously would be too much to handle, and now here we are. If we can’t maintain it, let’s get rid of it. TornadoInformation12 ( talk) 06:13, 3 April 2024 (UTC)TornadoInformation12