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Please start new discussions below this line.
Please do not retrieve discussions en masse from the archive; we won't know what issue you're trying to revive. If you want to continue a topic, just copy the relevant section from the archive to here, and add your new comments, preferably at the bottom where we can see them.-- Kotniski ( talk) 08:15, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
The name of the article is Kraków. If you don'y like the name, change it, but not discuss the subject here. Xx236 ( talk) 14:05, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
LOL.
There is an on-going systematic effort by User:Nihil_novi and few other extreme Polish nationalist characters to archive the content of the discussion page Talk:Stefan_Banach.
The discussion on this page contains many arguments and references on Ukrainian roots of Stefan Banach and on his contributions to Ukrainian mathematics.
Polish chauvinists attempted to initiate the discussion of the censorship purge of the article on Banach. To create a semblance of a "vote" supporting their censorship, User:Nihil_novi attempt to hide into the archive the discussions of the Banach Ukrainian roots and his contributions to Ukrainian mathematics.
The section Stefan Banach#Contributions to Ukrainian mathematics contains important and non-redundant facts on Banach's contributions to Ukrainian science and Ukrainian mathematics in particular. There are substantial plans to continue the work on expanding this particular section, as well as other sections of Stefan_Banach.
The on-going attempts of Polish extreme nationalist characters to impede the establishment of NPOV on Banach must be stopped! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.210.14.5 ( talk) 00:30, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
All that i know about the origins of Banach i've learned from this talk page. I have not become convinced at all that he really was a Ukranian mathematician, but i am almost ready to accept that he was a Polish occupant. -- Cokaban ( talk) 18:49, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
To explain in more detail the reasons for some of the reverts:
Many Volksdeutsche joined Polish army in the West, later many of them died or were injured. Xx236 ( talk) 10:17, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
Banach was born and spent his childhood in the area populated by Rusyns and Ukrainians. In fact, his last name Banach (and the last name of his mother) is a very common Jewish name among both Rusyns and Ukrainians who lived in this area for millennia.
Banach survived the Nazi occupation of Poland during the Second World war, as well as the cruel interwar regime of the dictator-ruled Poland. Under Pilsudski dictatorship, civilian freedoms were curtailed and minorities of Poland (Ukrainians, Rusyns, Germans and Jews) were oppressed and discriminated. Many colleagues of Banach, being Jewish, suffered from anti-Semitic discrimination and were denied any chance of gainful employment in Poland ruled by the dictator Pilsudski and his cronies. Other members of minority groups, like Banach, were forced to downplay their ethnic origins and "look Polish".
The modern day resurgence of nationalism and anti-Semitism in Poland led to a controversy surrounding the coverage of the ethnic origins of Banach and other Rusyn and Ukrainian mathematicians. Decades ago, even Encyclopedia Britannica use to describe Banach as a "Soviet mathematician". Modern-day Polish chauvinists continue the Soviet and Nazi traditions of shameless lies, trying to claim Banach as a "Polish mathematician". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.210.14.5 ( talk) 09:25, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
Hi, I will not refer to you statement about Poles because I find them offensive. Regarding Banach: I read that Banach's father name was Greczek, he came from Polish mountains region and worked and lived in Krakow. His mother name was Banach and she was also from Polish mountains (Nowy Targ region). Banach many times underlined that he is a highlander. And BTW, this is what Banach's son confirms (and if I am to chose between words of Banach's son and your speculation that his surname may sound Ruthenian, I will go for his words, unless you could show me some facts).
Also, Banach rejected von Neumann's proposal to migrate to the US, saying that no money would persuade him to leave Poland.
Basienka (
talk)
20:03, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
Forgive me if I misunderstood you but I think that calling people who say Banach was Polish "Modern-day Polish chauvinists" is offensive. I am not defending here pre-second war Poland; it is not an article on this matter. We speak here about Stefan Banach and his origins- and on this matter we have Banach's son words, and he knows where his family is from and what are their roots... By the way, which other mathematicians do you refer to in your first post?.. Regards, Basienka ( talk) 19:16, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
WP:DNFT.-- Kotniski ( talk) 20:25, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
I removed the statement "He would pay for his son's education and be the only relative whom Banach would ever know personally.<ref name="Waksmundzka-Hajnos"/>" since his biography says that he knew several relatives. selfworm Talk) 23:07, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
Two issues are of primary concern:
On a more substantive note, the tail end of the "education" section is not really about his education, and the "work" section is less about his mathematical works than it is about his biography for the middle period of his life. To me it looks like these three sections could more naturally be grouped as subsections of a larger "Life" or "Biography" section, retitled to make it more clear that the subdivisions are prewar, between the wars, and postwar. What do you all think? The article should also have a section outlining his important contributions to mathematics but that isn't really present in the article at present. — David Eppstein ( talk) 21:13, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
(following the note of v.M. at David Eppsitein's page). A few for now, I hope to add more tomorrow.
Style:
Content:
1 B-spaces and Banach spaces: perhaps the first two paragraphs in the second chapter here could be merged (I guess other sources, perhaps also in English, can be found to confirm this information)
2V The sentence "Because the theorem did not require linearity of the space, but applied only to Cauchy spaces (complete metric spaces) it led to the Hahn–Banach theorem, which is one of the fundamental theorems of Functional Analysis." does not make much sense to me: a) Hahn-Banach is about linear spaces, b) I am not sure there is any connection at all between the Banach fixed point theorem and the Hahn-Banach theorem, c) "applied only to Cauchy spaces" - perhaps, "applied to any Cauchy spaces"?
3 I would add a sentence on Banach-Tarski, since this is perhaps the only result that can really be appreciated by a non-specialist. Something like "In 1924, together with Alfred Tarski, Banach showed that a solid three-dimensional ball can be decomposed into a finite number of disjoint pieces which can be glued together into two balls of the same size. This result is now known as the Banach–Tarski paradox."
4 unlike the other items in the list, Banach algebras and Banach manifolds were not invented by Banach (the former were named after Banach by Gelfand, if I am not mistaken, and the latter are probably an even later invention)
5 Hahn–Banach - perhaps add something about applications to convex optimisation? I will try to come up with a more detailed suggestion
Sasha ( talk) 03:51, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
Re 2 - yes, you're right, that's incorrect as currently written, it should be "any" not "only". Here is Jahnke [1].
Re 3 (and some of the other points) - this isn't complete yet. I haven't gotten to Banach-Tarski yet.
More generally, it has been a long time since I took analysis and I've forgotten most of it by now, so any help with the "Contributions" section would be much appreciated. Volunteer Marek 05:51, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
It is written on the table: "Died: August 31, 1945 (aged 53); Lwów, Poland (territory occupied by the Soviet Union)". Probably, this phrase expresses the fact that somebody disapproves the occupation and does not like for Lwów to be in the Soviet Union. I also would prefer for this city to be in Poland rather than in the Soviet Union. But Wikipedia should describe facts neutrally. On 31 August 1945 Lwów simply was situated in the Soviet Union, namely in the Ukrainian SSR. As for me, it is unnecessary to write about any occupation in this case; in Europe the war was finished before this date and thus there were simply territories of states which do not need to be called occupied. -- D.M. from Ukraine ( talk) 20:22, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
Hello, I visited the page to read about Banach and I found out that he's tagged as "sovied person". I find this quite ridiculous. I am also surprised that he's listed as Jewish, as I recently read a book about Lwow mathematicians and he was supposedly of Polish Gorals ancestry.
English does use the word "gymnasium" - a building for indoor sports activity. In some countries it means school. The revision to "school" is clearer. Just clarifying the description on that revision which was not accurate. 220.158.191.161 ( talk) 10:23, 22 July 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on March 30, 2018. |
Please start new discussions below this line.
Please do not retrieve discussions en masse from the archive; we won't know what issue you're trying to revive. If you want to continue a topic, just copy the relevant section from the archive to here, and add your new comments, preferably at the bottom where we can see them.-- Kotniski ( talk) 08:15, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
The name of the article is Kraków. If you don'y like the name, change it, but not discuss the subject here. Xx236 ( talk) 14:05, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
LOL.
There is an on-going systematic effort by User:Nihil_novi and few other extreme Polish nationalist characters to archive the content of the discussion page Talk:Stefan_Banach.
The discussion on this page contains many arguments and references on Ukrainian roots of Stefan Banach and on his contributions to Ukrainian mathematics.
Polish chauvinists attempted to initiate the discussion of the censorship purge of the article on Banach. To create a semblance of a "vote" supporting their censorship, User:Nihil_novi attempt to hide into the archive the discussions of the Banach Ukrainian roots and his contributions to Ukrainian mathematics.
The section Stefan Banach#Contributions to Ukrainian mathematics contains important and non-redundant facts on Banach's contributions to Ukrainian science and Ukrainian mathematics in particular. There are substantial plans to continue the work on expanding this particular section, as well as other sections of Stefan_Banach.
The on-going attempts of Polish extreme nationalist characters to impede the establishment of NPOV on Banach must be stopped! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.210.14.5 ( talk) 00:30, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
All that i know about the origins of Banach i've learned from this talk page. I have not become convinced at all that he really was a Ukranian mathematician, but i am almost ready to accept that he was a Polish occupant. -- Cokaban ( talk) 18:49, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
To explain in more detail the reasons for some of the reverts:
Many Volksdeutsche joined Polish army in the West, later many of them died or were injured. Xx236 ( talk) 10:17, 9 May 2008 (UTC)
Banach was born and spent his childhood in the area populated by Rusyns and Ukrainians. In fact, his last name Banach (and the last name of his mother) is a very common Jewish name among both Rusyns and Ukrainians who lived in this area for millennia.
Banach survived the Nazi occupation of Poland during the Second World war, as well as the cruel interwar regime of the dictator-ruled Poland. Under Pilsudski dictatorship, civilian freedoms were curtailed and minorities of Poland (Ukrainians, Rusyns, Germans and Jews) were oppressed and discriminated. Many colleagues of Banach, being Jewish, suffered from anti-Semitic discrimination and were denied any chance of gainful employment in Poland ruled by the dictator Pilsudski and his cronies. Other members of minority groups, like Banach, were forced to downplay their ethnic origins and "look Polish".
The modern day resurgence of nationalism and anti-Semitism in Poland led to a controversy surrounding the coverage of the ethnic origins of Banach and other Rusyn and Ukrainian mathematicians. Decades ago, even Encyclopedia Britannica use to describe Banach as a "Soviet mathematician". Modern-day Polish chauvinists continue the Soviet and Nazi traditions of shameless lies, trying to claim Banach as a "Polish mathematician". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.210.14.5 ( talk) 09:25, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
Hi, I will not refer to you statement about Poles because I find them offensive. Regarding Banach: I read that Banach's father name was Greczek, he came from Polish mountains region and worked and lived in Krakow. His mother name was Banach and she was also from Polish mountains (Nowy Targ region). Banach many times underlined that he is a highlander. And BTW, this is what Banach's son confirms (and if I am to chose between words of Banach's son and your speculation that his surname may sound Ruthenian, I will go for his words, unless you could show me some facts).
Also, Banach rejected von Neumann's proposal to migrate to the US, saying that no money would persuade him to leave Poland.
Basienka (
talk)
20:03, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
Forgive me if I misunderstood you but I think that calling people who say Banach was Polish "Modern-day Polish chauvinists" is offensive. I am not defending here pre-second war Poland; it is not an article on this matter. We speak here about Stefan Banach and his origins- and on this matter we have Banach's son words, and he knows where his family is from and what are their roots... By the way, which other mathematicians do you refer to in your first post?.. Regards, Basienka ( talk) 19:16, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
WP:DNFT.-- Kotniski ( talk) 20:25, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
I removed the statement "He would pay for his son's education and be the only relative whom Banach would ever know personally.<ref name="Waksmundzka-Hajnos"/>" since his biography says that he knew several relatives. selfworm Talk) 23:07, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
Two issues are of primary concern:
On a more substantive note, the tail end of the "education" section is not really about his education, and the "work" section is less about his mathematical works than it is about his biography for the middle period of his life. To me it looks like these three sections could more naturally be grouped as subsections of a larger "Life" or "Biography" section, retitled to make it more clear that the subdivisions are prewar, between the wars, and postwar. What do you all think? The article should also have a section outlining his important contributions to mathematics but that isn't really present in the article at present. — David Eppstein ( talk) 21:13, 23 April 2012 (UTC)
(following the note of v.M. at David Eppsitein's page). A few for now, I hope to add more tomorrow.
Style:
Content:
1 B-spaces and Banach spaces: perhaps the first two paragraphs in the second chapter here could be merged (I guess other sources, perhaps also in English, can be found to confirm this information)
2V The sentence "Because the theorem did not require linearity of the space, but applied only to Cauchy spaces (complete metric spaces) it led to the Hahn–Banach theorem, which is one of the fundamental theorems of Functional Analysis." does not make much sense to me: a) Hahn-Banach is about linear spaces, b) I am not sure there is any connection at all between the Banach fixed point theorem and the Hahn-Banach theorem, c) "applied only to Cauchy spaces" - perhaps, "applied to any Cauchy spaces"?
3 I would add a sentence on Banach-Tarski, since this is perhaps the only result that can really be appreciated by a non-specialist. Something like "In 1924, together with Alfred Tarski, Banach showed that a solid three-dimensional ball can be decomposed into a finite number of disjoint pieces which can be glued together into two balls of the same size. This result is now known as the Banach–Tarski paradox."
4 unlike the other items in the list, Banach algebras and Banach manifolds were not invented by Banach (the former were named after Banach by Gelfand, if I am not mistaken, and the latter are probably an even later invention)
5 Hahn–Banach - perhaps add something about applications to convex optimisation? I will try to come up with a more detailed suggestion
Sasha ( talk) 03:51, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
Re 2 - yes, you're right, that's incorrect as currently written, it should be "any" not "only". Here is Jahnke [1].
Re 3 (and some of the other points) - this isn't complete yet. I haven't gotten to Banach-Tarski yet.
More generally, it has been a long time since I took analysis and I've forgotten most of it by now, so any help with the "Contributions" section would be much appreciated. Volunteer Marek 05:51, 1 October 2012 (UTC)
It is written on the table: "Died: August 31, 1945 (aged 53); Lwów, Poland (territory occupied by the Soviet Union)". Probably, this phrase expresses the fact that somebody disapproves the occupation and does not like for Lwów to be in the Soviet Union. I also would prefer for this city to be in Poland rather than in the Soviet Union. But Wikipedia should describe facts neutrally. On 31 August 1945 Lwów simply was situated in the Soviet Union, namely in the Ukrainian SSR. As for me, it is unnecessary to write about any occupation in this case; in Europe the war was finished before this date and thus there were simply territories of states which do not need to be called occupied. -- D.M. from Ukraine ( talk) 20:22, 14 June 2013 (UTC)
Hello, I visited the page to read about Banach and I found out that he's tagged as "sovied person". I find this quite ridiculous. I am also surprised that he's listed as Jewish, as I recently read a book about Lwow mathematicians and he was supposedly of Polish Gorals ancestry.
English does use the word "gymnasium" - a building for indoor sports activity. In some countries it means school. The revision to "school" is clearer. Just clarifying the description on that revision which was not accurate. 220.158.191.161 ( talk) 10:23, 22 July 2022 (UTC)